starting right now on abc's "this week," trump in it to win it. >> beautiful. >> the >> announcer: starting right now on abc's "this week," trump in it to win it. >> beautiful. >> the donald solidifies his takeover of 2016. the massive rally, the surging poll numbers. this morning, the new signs trump could be the leader for the long haul. he's here live. plus, how trump's opponents are fighting back. we'll ask scott walker, can he outtrump trump? biden running? his secret meeting this weekend. does it mean he's about to jump in? plus, hillary in trouble? the e-mail firestorm growing. why she's interrupting her vacation to get back on the trail and american heroes. breaking details about that fearless train takedown. u.s. servicemen risking their lives to stop a possible

terrorist on the attack. from abc news, "this week with george stephanopoulos" begins now. good morning. what some called a summer fling still going strong, donald trump drawing record crowds. he's going to join us live in a moment. but we begin with that brewing intrigue on the democratic side. vice president biden calling populist star elizabeth warren to washington for a secret meeting. jonathan karl tracking the latest. jon, this is the strongest sign that biden is taking a serious look at this race. >> reporter: it sure is, george. this is a meeting between the two democrats who could potentially pose the greatest threat to hillary clinton if either one of them decided to one. now, warren, of course, has emphatically ruled out running. biden is seriously considering it. it's hard to imagine anything that would give him a bigger initial boost among base democratic voters than support from warren. warren, by the way, has been decidedly cool about hillary

clinton's campaign. just listen to this clip from a recent interview with wbz in boston. >> was it a mistake for your party to anoint her as the nominee so early on? >> i don't think anybody's been anointed. >> so, biden clearly sees an opening with that lukewarm comment. >> reporter: absolutely and especially in recent polls on the question of honesty and trustworthiness. hillary clinton is suffering largely as a result of this e-mail controversy. look at this recent quinnipiac poll nationally. only 37% say that they trust hillary clinton. 57% say no. when you look at biden's numbers they're almost exactly the reverse. a strong majority say that they find biden honest and trustworthy. >> the question is, would he be willing to make that case if he rungs? what about timing. i talked to one supporter this week who said it looks like biden is saying he's about 60/40 to run and they're feeling some pressure to make an announcement soon. >> reporter: what biden himself

is telling people, i am told, is that he's got quite a bit of time and says the real deadline is that first democratic debate which is october 13th, but one very close by, an adviser, told me yesterday that he believes that biden has to do much quicker, has to make this decision much quicker. he starts, of course, way behind. has no national organization. no fund-raising. if he's going to run he has to get moving. >> jon karl, thanks very much. now the republicans and donald trump dominating another week. there he is in alabama late friday drawing the biggest crowd of his campaign. he is standing by live after tom llamas reports on how his rivals are countering the energy his opponent has unleashed. >> reporter: if there was any doubt about if donald trump was dominating the 2016 race, take a look at his rock star reception friday night. a stadium-size crowd. officials saying 30,000 on hand for the gop front-runner. >> we need to have our borders. we need to make great deals. >> reporter: this rally in alabama a strategic choice for the trump campaign in an early primary state.

a new poll shows him now beating jeb bush in florida. and the billionaire's new immigration plan, the focus of the campaign. >> you look at chicago. you look at baltimore. you look at ferguson. you look at a lot of these places. a lot of these gangs and the most vicious are illegals. they're out of here. first day i will send them people -- we -- those guys are out of here. [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: the question this morning, how does the rest of the field react? some like jeb bush unleashing tough shots at trump. >> there's a big difference between donald trump and me. i'm a proven conservative with a record. he isn't. >> reporter: bush's super pac trying to highlight his previous left leaning views flying this banner saying, "trump 4 higher tax, jeb 4 prez." carly fiorina joining in, as well. >> i'm not sure donald trump is a republican. >> reporter: the alternative, to stay positive. put dr. ben carson in that camp. >> i like people who are willing to say what they believe. >> reporter: then there's scott

walker. on trump's plan to end birthright citizenship for undocumented immigrants, he first agreed. >> yeah, absolutely. >> you should end birthright citizenship? >> yeah, to me it's about enforcing the laws in this country. >> reporter: then backed off. >> i'm not taking a position on it one way or the other. >> reporter: the trump juggernaut still leaving top tier candidates on unsure footing. for "this week," tom llamas, abc news. >> thanks to tom llamas for that. now let's talk to the man himself. donald trump joins us by phone. a lot to talk about this week, mr. dump, but i wan s to begin with that news about joe biden. some news he may be considering the race. meeting with elizabeth warren. may be getting in. would he be a tougher opponent than hillary? >> i don't think so. i think they're the same. i think hillary may be damaged because of the e-mail thing. you look at general petraeus, what's happened to him. how he's been destroyed and what he did was a fraction of what she's done, but i don't know. assuming she could get over that which i just don't know how she possibly can but assuming she could, i would say it would be pretty equal. >> okay, but let's talk about

you right now and your new immigration plan that you've been talking about on the stump. all of your opponents having to react to it at this point. jeb bush, one of the people who reacted to it saying it's going to cost hundreds of billions. from the american action conservative group, they say the federal government would have to spend roughly $400 billion to $600 billion to address the 11.2 million undocumented immigrants. each immigrant would have to be apprehended, detained, legally processed, transported to his or her home country, in turn this would shrink the labor force by 11 million workers and reduce real gdp by $1.6 trillion." are you willing to pay that price and where will you get the money. >> first of all, they're wrong and jeb bush is a low energy person. he would never be able to do it. he says they come as an act of love. an act of love. people coming and many of them you look at what's happening with the crime, many of them are really causing tremendous problems, and they would be out really fast, immediately, first

day we start that movement. we need a wall. we have to get a wall. we need great security and we're going to have a wall that will not let people in. george, by the way, legally if you're legal, you can come in and we'll -- >> but let me press you on the cost right there, mr. trump. they're saying $406 billion and it would require big government apparatus to take everybody down. if you don't think those numbers are right, how much is it going to cost, and where are you going to get the money? >> it's costing us $130 billion a year and that's peanuts compared to what the real cost is, george. the way we have it now. you have so many illegals. we don't even know how many illegals. i hear 11 million. i hear 30 million. the government has no idea. we have lost control of our country. we've lost control of our borders. the government has no idea how many illegals are here. i've been hearing 11 million for five years then i heard 30 million. nobody has any idea. >> so if there's no idea how are you going to round them all up, where are you going to get the money? where are you going to get the forces? exactly how are you going to do

it? what are the specifics here? >> george, it's called management. the first thing we have to do is secure the border but it's called management and we'll get people back in, the really good ones we're going to expedite it so they get back so they can at least come in legally. >> you keep declaring how you're going to do it but you don't say how. >> excuse me, george? >> you declare how you're going to do it but you don't say how. >> george, i'm telling you, it's called management. you can do this and we can expedite the good ones to come back in and everybody wants that. but they have to come in legally. we have a country, we have to have -- we're a country of laws. we're a country of borders. how can you have a country without a border? how can you have a country without laws? we have to do it and, by the way, what you said in your piece initially is the gang members. you look at the gang members in baltimore, chicago, in ferguson, these people, a lot of them are illegals. these are rough dudes and we're going to get them the -- >> i understand that you think it's a huge problem but i don't it's a huge problem but i don't

hear specifics on how you're going to do it. >> my specifics are very simple. i'm going to get great people that know what they're doing. not a bunch of political hacks that have no idea what they're doing appointed by president obama that doesn't have a clue. i mean the man doesn't have a clue. people are walking across the border right now right in front of these great people that we have. we have wonderful border patrol people. they can do their job but they're not allowed to do the job. people are walking right into our country totally un -- nobody even knows where they come from and they walk past guards who are told not to do anything. >> do you expect neighbors to start turning in neighbors? >> i don't know what's going to happen. i can tell you this, we have to have a country -- we're a country of laws and we have to do it that way, george. there's nothing we can do about it if we're going to stand as a country. there's no choice. we have no choice. we have to do it properly. now, the candidates that are running against me like jeb bush, he has no clue. he's never going to be able to do anything. just look at what's happened with him over the years and what's happened with the last thing we need is another bush.

but scott walker changed his mind now because he keeps going back to his pollster and his pollster says trump has a good idea, oh, trump has a bad idea. oh, no, wait a minute. trump has a good idea. these people don't know what they're doing, george. they're politicians. they don't know management. i get the best people and we will do it properly and humanely and get the good ones back in. >> i still haven't heard the specifics. i know you're going to do that -- >> you will, george, don't worry, you'll hear it. >> but i'll move on right now. scott walker -- >> good management and it's called great people. >> you know, you talk about jeb bush just a minute ago and say he's a low energy guy. talk about an article turned out in "new york" magazine gabriel sherman talked to a friend of you, informal adviser and said you called him and warned that friend if i'm going down, then bush is going down with me. he's not going to be president of the united states." did you say that to -- >> totally false.

i don't know where this comes from. i'm hearing it for the first time. i don't mind jeb bush. i think he's a nice person but i don't think he has the energy. you need energy for this job. you can't be soft and we need -- we're a country that's in trouble. we owe $18 trillion. it's going to be up to 20 trillion in a very short period of time which is a very, very bad number when you hit over 20. and we need a person with a lot of smarts, a lot of cunning and a lot of energy, and jeb doesn't have that. i think he's a very nice person. if he became president, if he became president, good luck. it's another bush. it's going to be the same old story. >> let me ask -- >> i have nothing against jeb bush. i think he's a very nice person. >> let me ask you a more philosophical question. which failure in your career taught you the most? what did you learn from it? >> i've had very few failures, george, and if i do have a failure, i try to make it a success. for instance, if a market collapses in the midst of a big construction job, which i've had happen a number of times in a number of times i make those more successful and go back to the bank and fight with them, negotiate, do all sorts of things and have had deals that should have been disasters and would have been more most people and have become great successes. actually more successful than if

the market had stayed good, but i would say this more than anything else, you have to learn from tough times, and i've learned a lot. >> you talked about scott walker just a minute ago and he drew a lot of headlines this week talking about his efforts to try and maybe outtrump you, one from "the new york times." willing to step away in iowa walker adopts a trump-like stance. "the washington post," fading in the polls walker aims to attract trump supporters. reuters in a bid to jump-start campaign walker tries to channel trump. "national journal" how walker plans to win back donald trump supporters. are you worried? >> well, i'm not worried because the state is really in trouble. i mean, it's a fantastic place. i love the people of wisconsin but if you look at what's going, they have the $2.2 billion deficit. they were supposed to have a surplus of a billion and have 2.2 billion. there's tremendous divisions throughout the state. the roads aren't being built properly. you know, he stopped a lot of work because he doesn't want to raise taxes, so instead of

raising taxes he's borrowing to the hilt and the state is very overlevered and it's number 38 out of the states. it's ranked number 38. that's not good, so, you know, i'm honored that he wants to copy me, and he's a nice man. he was up -- i gave him campaign contributions when he was running for governor. i like him very much, but his state has not performed well. we need somebody that's going to make it perform well. this country perform well, and i'm the one to do it. i will do a great job, and people are seeing that, and it's being reflected in the polls. i mean reuters just came out with a brand-new poll yesterday, 32% for trump. i mean, people want to see real change, not obama change. he used the word change. his change was a bad change. they want to see proper change. they want to see great change. they want to see our country be great again. george. >> donald trump, thanks for your time this morning. >> thank you very much. okay, let's give scott walker a chance to respond. right now he joins us this morning from alabama. governor, thanks for joining us this morning. you heard donald trump say

wisconsin is not performing. your response? >> well, he's using the talking points of the democrats. those talking points haven't worked in the past 4 1/2 years as we won three elections in four years, not just with republican support but with a huge margin amongst independents and even some discerning democrats, why, because we took a $3.6 billion budget deficit and fixed it and did it while cutting taxes by billions of dollars. our roads are better and our schools are better. our state is better. those are the same talking points the democrats used and didn't work in the past. they won't work now but the one thing i do want to clarify is i do think that there is some real frustration out there. it's why you not only see his numbers up you see some of the other candidates who have not run for office before they're angry at washington. heck, i'm angry at washington and angry at my own party leadership who told us they would repeal obamacare and don't see a bill on the desk of the president. i think that's where the real frustration is. in the end if people want someone to fight but not just fight but win and get results and do it without compromising

commonsense conservative principles, i'm the candidate. >> it sounds like you're following through on what "the washington post" reported had week. they reported on a conference call with your fund-raisers who said you had to do better in protest, policy and passion. is that right? >> yeah, i think there's no doubt about it and want to see what they saw at the iowa state fair. we had protesters, one who tried to come up on the stage and i said, i'm not intimidated by you or the left or not intimidated by the special interests in washington and i'm certainly not intimidated by the big government union bosses but early on our state assembly was great but a few of our state senators, some of whom had been in leadership did not want to do the big, bold reforms we did and i'll take anybody on including the leadership of my own party in washington if that's what it takes to do what is right for the american people. >> also been taking on this question of birthright citizenship and the 14th amendment. let me put the first sentence of the 14th amend mement up on the screen

right now. "all persons born or naturalized in the united states and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the united states and of the state wherein they reside." do you support the first line of the 14th amendment? >> well, george, let me step back for a second and tell you an interesting story. last month i was in a small town in iowa called plainville. in fact, i lived there for awhile as a kid, and a family came from waukesha to confront me. the father was upset i was 1 of the 25 governors that went to court and stopped the president and i told that father, in a very tense situation with the media all around including some from abc news and others out there, i told that father i felt bad for him and his family. i feel bad for families like that but i told them that this president had said i believe some 22 times, 22 times before he did what he did last november that he couldn't do it. he said that he was the president, not the emperor. that he wasn't above the law, and then he went out and changed the law by his actions. it took me and 25 or, excuse me, 24 other governors to stop him in court. the problem here, we need to address the root problem, the

issue, which is we need a president who is going to secure the borders, not just give lip service to it like we've seen over the past couple of decades. secure the border and enforce the laws. my point all week has been and continues to be as it was last month, until we address those core problems we'll -- we're not addressing the real issue and americans are right to be upset. >> i understand that's what you feel we have to address but this is a simple yes or no question. do you support that line of the 14th amendment? >> well, i said the law is there and we need to enforce the laws including those that are in the constitution. my point is having this debate about anything else when we don't have politicians who are committed to actually securing the border and enforcing the laws, which means very simply in our country e-verify. making sure that every employer ensures that the people working for them are legal to work in this state -- in this country. that will resolve the problem we're talking about and that's what i've been talking about this week. >> so, you're not seeking to repeal or alter the 14th amendment? >> no, my point is any discussion that goes beyond securing the border and enforcing laws are things that

should be a red flag to voters out there who for years have heard lip service from politicians and are understandably angry because those politicians haven't been committed to following through on those promises. i hope the one thing people see in my state, i had 100,000 protesters on a different issue and had all sorts of death threats and all sorts of other abuse. people in my state will tell you whether they agree or disagree. one thing i do when i make a promise i follow through on it. my promise is to truly secure the border and enforce the laws of this great country. >> let's talk about health care and you put out a plan calling for the replacement of obamacare with a series of tax credits for everyone who would be escalating over age. this is what one of your rivals, governor bobby jindal had to say about this. >> scott walker's plan does create a new entitlement program and guarantees universal coverage for every american, one estimate this week says it would cost over a trillion dollars. and he doesn't tell us how he would pay for this plan. >> so how much will your plan cost, and how will you pay for

it? >> well, he's just wrong on that, in fact, conservative commentator after commentator from "the wall street journal" and the "national review" and others said it's the best plan out there and, in fact, it's one of the only plans out there about freedom and giving patients and families the control of their own money. we repeal obamacare immediately. on day one we send the bill up to congress and day one we get rid of the special provisions for congress, their families, staff and everyone else to make sure they repeal it entirely immediately and give people a tax credit for those who don't have health insurance from their employer. if you get it from your employer it won't be touched. if anything your premiums will go down because putting in place reforms will help lower health care cost, not raise them as we saw under obamacare but give people a tax credit and goes up by age because before obamacare that's what happened. your health care costs go up over age. the credit goes up over age. we allow people to apply that to the health care plan they want or not buy health kcare

insurance if they don't want but we put the freedom back in the hands of the american people and for us it's a simple way to do it that's cost neutral, repeals all of the trillions worth of tax increases you see under obamacare and gives us one of the biggest tax cuts we've had in the past 40 some years, one of the most pro-growth systems, and we do it by making sure we have a tax system that appropriately acknowledges some of the top tier health insurance plans by giving medicaid back to the states where there's real reform. that mays it cost neutral. >> finally, you heard donald trump say he doesn't think hillary can overcome this e-mail issue. do you agree with that, and and will it still be an issue in the general election? >> well, i think she has all sorts of problems when it comes to health care. hillary cares more about the ruling class than the middle class and trying to give special breaks or talking about giving special breaks to some of her biggest supporters while the rest of us are stuck with it. when it comes to e-mail i don't think americans can trust her. every day we see more information about e-mails, they're not about e-mails but national security and put my

national security at risk and put your national security at risk and put the american people's national security at risk. hillary clinton would be a pretty good deceiver in chief. but i don't think we can trust her as commander in chief. >> sounds like you are ready to make it an issue if you get the nomination. scott walker, thanks for your time this morning. >> thank you, george. when we come back those, three american heroes who risked their lives to stop a deadly terror attack. fresh details on their harrowing story. and what was behind the worst week on wall street in years? what's next for the markets and your 401(k)? that analysis is next. >> announcer: "this week with george stephanopoulos" brought to you by charles schwab. week with george stephanopoulos brought to you by charles schwab. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab

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lots more lots more ahead on "this week." democratic candidate martin o'malley and our round table weigh in. biden's new moves plus all the latest details on three americans who took down a deadly terrorist. what really happened on that train to paris. that's next. that's next.

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we are back now with those american heroes who took down a terrorist in france, unarmed, unafraid. they acted on instinct wrestling away an assault weapon as the attacker slashed them with a knife. authorities say they prevented a massacre, and abc's david wright is in paris with the latest details on their stunning bravery. good morning, david. >> reporter: good morning, george. you're right, stunning is the word for it. these three americans were vacationing here in france, two service members and a college student, childhood friends who were on that train bound for paris when a gunman burst into the car and started shooting. without thinking of their own safety, they leapt into action. slightly battered but clearly in good spirits, airman first class spencer stone waved to reporters after being released from the hospital. he's one of three americans being hailed as heroes for thwarting what could have been a

deadly terror attack on a paris-bound train. >> dude, i tried to shoot him. >> reporter: the immediate aftermath captured on cell phone video. that's spencer bleeding from the neck and hand after disarming the suspect, now hog tied on the floor, his arsenal of weapons nearby. stone was on the train with two childhood friends army national guardsman alek skarlatos and a college student, anthony sadler, when the gunman emerged from the bathroom wielding an ak-47. >> we see the gunman enter the back of the train with the ak in his hand, and he's cocking it about to shoot it, and my friend alek just yelled, spencer go. >> spencer got to the guy first. grabbed the guy by the neck, and i grabbed the handgun. we were scared for sure, but i mean adrenaline mostly just took over because i mean i didn't even have time to think. >> reporter: a british businessman also made the split-second decision to help subdue the gunman.

>> it was purely survival. i said to myself, okay, maybe i have a chance if i get up and i help, as well. >> reporter: french authorities say the suspect identified as 25-year-old ayoub el khazzani was on a security watch list, thought to have ties to radical islamist groups. this country is, of course, still on high alert after the deadly "charlie hebdo" attacks in january. the authorities here thankful that that scene was not repeated thanks to these quick-thinking americans. tomorrow, the french president plans to thank them personally at a ceremony here at the elysees palace. >> and they deserve every accumulate they get. now to that huge sell-off on wall street this week. the dow dropping 6%, more than 500 points on friday alone. its worst day in nearly four years. investors and everyone with a 401(k) bracing for more turbulence from global markets opening later today. our market expert, rebecca jarvis, tracking it all, and what triggered this big fall

this week? >> two key issues here, george. first off fears of a global economic slowdown and the federal reserve on the verge for the first time in six years of hiking interest rates, which means the cost of borrowing goes up for everyone. anyone who wants a mortgage, a car loan, a credit card, that gets more expensive. >> and what are you hearing about what's going to happen next when markets open tomorrow? >> well, what we're hearing right now is that things are pointing lower. but, of course, no one can call the future. no one knows with certainty. what you look at is where the selling is and it is widespread right now. the blue chips, walmart, exxon, apple, shares in apple are down 20% since april. these are sizable companies, and they're all facing lower and then you look at the fear gauge on wall street. it's called the volatility index where they actually measure fear. that spiked to the highest level so far this year on friday, so we're setting up for a very volatile week. what we're going to be watching tonight is obviously when china opens, because china has been very significant, the weakness there has been rippling over into our markets for some time now. >> a lot of eyes on that. okay, rebecca, i know you'll be

watching it as well. we'll talk to you tomorrow. up next here the democrat looking for traction by taking on trump but is martin o'malley ready to get tough on hillary too? he joins us live. us live. everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy.?

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our country is already great but people like donald trump sell it short when they sell their workers short. >> i know nothing about him. i think he's got less than 1% in the poll and i did see my beautiful building on television. it's beautiful, tallest building in las vegas. i'm very proud of it. most beautiful building in las vegas. i know he was in front. martin o'malley was there to try and get some publicity, which he desperately needs. >> and governor martin o'malley joins us now from davenport, iowa, after that appearance in front of trump's hotel in las vegas this week, governor, thank you for joining us this morning. that was actually pretty mild from mr. trump. >> thank you, george. >> he also said this week that you're a disgusting, little, weak, pathetic baby. your response? >> my response is i'm not going to get into a name-calling debate with mr. trump but i do take great exception to the hateful language that he uses with regard to whole groups of

new american immigrants, and i also have a great deal of disagreement with the economic policies he espouses, which are good for billionaires but bad for working people including those folks working at minimum wage at his hotel that he will not even allow to have the right to be heard and to bargain collectively for better wages. the biggest challenge in our country right now, george, is how do we get wages to go up again for americans instead of down. 70% of us are working harder but not getting ahead, and that's not the way our country is supposed to work or our economy is supposed to work, and mr. trump's policies are absolutely the wrong sort of policies that would perpetuate this sort of wage stagnation. >> do you think he's got any chance of being the nominee? >> excuse me? does donald trump? i suppose he could, which is why, you know, why we have such an outstanding opportunity here if only the democratic party would start holding debates. i mean, when you listen to their debates, very few of their candidates take him on directly. for the hatemongering, for the

hateful speech about women and about immigrants, and so we have an opportunity as the democratic party if we'd start holding debates to talk about the ideas that actually make wages go up, raising the minimum wage, allowing workers to organize, making investments in our own country again. these are the things that will actually make the american dream real again. >> i know you're calling for more debates, the first one is scheduled for october, october 13th but i wonder what kind of case you will make over the course of those debates. your iowa co-chair george appleby said the major factor in this nomination fight will be age and said i don't think we'll go back to someone much older whether bernie sanders, 73, hillary clinton, 67. do you agree that's going to be a major fact and is that a case you're going to make? >> well, i believe that the country is looking for new leadership. we can't be this dissatisfied with how the economy is working for most of us or this dissatisfied at our very divided or polarized national

politics and think a resort to old names is going to move us forward so i'm in iowa today and now visited 30 of the 99 counties, and we're getting a very strong response on the ground from those activists who actually make the decision in the walks, and the phrase i hear over and over again, george, is the phrase, getting things done. there are many fine candidates in the democratic party who espouse progressive goals and values and will make progressive promises, but i'm the only one in our party who has 15 years of executive experience actually getting these things done, actually passing a living wage, passing the d.r.e.a.m. act, passing marriage equality, creating an economic environment that the u.s. chamber of commerce called the number one state in america for innovation and entrepreneurship. these are the things that we need to do as a country so we can include more of our people, more fully in the economic -- >> you'll hammer home on getting things done.

will it be harder to make that case if vice president biden gets in? >> i would -- you know, i have a great deal of respect for vice president biden. he's a very, very good and decent man. it would be nice to have at least one more lifelong democrat in the race, and i think his wisdom, i think his experience would -- >> is that a shot at bernie sanders for being part of the socialist party? >> no, it's a compliment to vice president biden for also being a lifelong democrat. >> okay. one other story about hillary clinton. you have said that this whole issue of e-mails is a distraction, a distraction from the campaign and you've refused to take it on so far. but i want to show you poll numbers that came out from the quinnipiac poll from key states of florida, ohio and pennsylvania. they were asked is hillary clinton honest and trustworthy. 60% in ohio said no, 64% in florida, 63% in pennsylvania said no. you just heard scott walker say she would be the deceiver in chief.

do you believe she's honest and trustworthy? >> george, this is why we need to have debates because so long as our democratic party is not talking about the issues that matter most around the kitchen table the only question that will be asked every day, and it's a legitimate question by media, people like yourself or by the republicans are questions about hillary clinton's e-mails. those are questions that i will leave to her and to her lawyers to answer. but as a party, we need to wake up, and we need to start having debates about the issues that really matter like making college more affordable for more families, making wages go up and not down. making the investments that allow us to move to a 100% clean energy future as a nation so we can square our shoulders to the challenge of climate change. until we start having debates and offering those ideas that move our country forward, we're going to be bogged down in questions of what did hillary clinton know and when did she know it, and we cannot allow our party to be branded by those sorts of questions of the past. we have to look to the future and we have to offer the ideas

that move our country forward. that's why these debates are so important. >> do you think you can convince the dnc to add more debates? >> i think the dnc will become convinced as they look at the poll numbers that you just put up there that we're really hurring ourselves by not putting forward ideas that serve our national interests. the new ideas and the new generation of leadership people are looking for will be found in the democratic party, not the hatemongerers of the republican party. we need to offer these ideas. >> governor o'malley, thanks for your time this morning. >> thank you, george. the roundtable is up next. what do they make of hillary's trouble, trump's dominance and the remarkable grace of jimmy carter? >> so, i'm ready for anything and looking forward to a new adventure.

you were in charge of it. you were the official in charge. did you wipe the server. >> >> what, with a cloth or something? we have turned over the server. they can do whatever they want with the server to tig out what's in, what's not there, but we turned over everything that was work-related, every single thing. personal stuff, we did not. i had no obligation to do so and

did not. thank you all. >> hillary clinton right there taking those questions on her e-mails this week showing a bit of frustration but then moving on. i want to talk about that on our roundtable joined by democrat bill richardson, former governor of new mexico, cabinet secretary u.n. ambassador for president clinton as well, ana navarro, close to jeb bush, rich lowry, editor of "the national review." nancy gibbs and matt bai from yahoo! news, and let's begin with hillary clinton and the e-mails. rich lowry, the cover -- is it going to sink hillary's campaign? the hillary team says that's overblown. what do you think? >> the problem she has no one believes her. the reason why she set up this private system was clearly to maintain complete control over her official records. and now she's a hostage to fortune depending on what the fbi concludes about the lawfulness of this arrangement and depending on what of her personal e-mails are recovered, so-called personal because it's

really hard to believe that she sent tens of thousands of e-mails as secretary of state all about her yoga routines and wedding cakes and all the rest of it >> it's also hard to believe they would make such a declarative statement that there was anything there marked classified. i talked to clinton supporters, nancy gibbs, that believes she has to come out and sort of say what she has said before, which is that, yeah, it was probably a mistake to set this personal system up. >> i think the problem is the declarative statements haven't been that declarative. it was nothing was classified then it was nothing was more classified at the time. every time the statements change, i think it reinforces the notion that the whole story is out, and apologize iing isn't the necessarily strongest suit for her, and so i don't know that you're going to go that far to say i made a mistake but you do increasingly hear people in her party saying without some acknowledgement that this looks really bad and feels bad in a visceral way to voters on the trust factor will be hard for it to be behind them. >> matt bai, there are questions about the quinnipiac poll but it's got to be an alarm bell for

democrats. >> oh, yeah, oh, yeah, it is an alarm bell. we always hear in politics it's not the crime, it's the cover-up. i think here it's not the cover-up. it's the attitude. and this is what's driving this trust deficit is the idea that whether people care really about the e-mails or the servers or whether they understand the details there is this attitude i shouldn't have to answer these questions. she walked away from the media last week. >> but to be fair, she did answer the questions first. >> but very testily and incompletely and with a very tepid apology. i think that's the issue that goes forward even more than whatever happens with the servers. what democrats have to be worried about when they look at the numbers on the trust deficit is that the signal is one of entitlement, that the signal is one that says i'm taking this nomination. i'm the only one out there and not going to have to answer some of these questions that people want answered. i think that would worry me if i were running her campaign. >> and, bill richardson, joe biden watching this closely. has this meeting with elizabeth

warren yesterday clearly reaching out in all the early states, as well. do you think he gets in? >> i don't think he gets in. i think the personal situation he's going through and the fact that hillary clinton is way ahead. i mean, i know that she's having these problems now but with fund-raising, with her -- she's got a superb organization, you know, and, by the way, she will be very strong after iowa and new hampshire in super tuesday in minority states with a broad coalition of women and progressives and minorities. i don't think he gets in, but if he gets in, he will be a formidable challenger. >> i should point out you've had your difficulties with the clintons in the past even though you worked for president clinton. you endorsed barack obama in 2008, caused a rift with the clintons but now some mending of fences? >> we patched things up with both clintons, with secretary clinton and president clinton. you know, for seven years there was hostility. when i did the endorsement of

president obama, which i stand by, but i didn't do it right. i didn't handle it right, and so we patched things up. we've had long conversations with both of them. i'm supporting her now because i think she's got the best candidacy. talk about the issues, i mean what she's come out with on the economy, on job growth, on climate change, on immigration, on foreign policy, she was a good secretary of state. >> i'm glad you did that, bill, because, you know, the clintons have a long memory. i thought if she became president you were going to have to self-deport. >> let me assure you, george, i have not patched things up with clinton just in case you're -- >> now you need to patch things up with james carville who i remember had some very choice words for you at the time. >> i'll tell you the truth. i was very close with president clinton, so for seven years, you know, this was like an albatross, so i don't want anything from them, but i wanted to clear this up. i still think she's by far the

best candidate of all the candidates. she's got the experience. she's got a tremendous amount of policy positions that are new that need to be looked at. >> ana, what about this maneuvering by joe biden at this point? no one can get inside his head i guess right now, but the question i would have if he gets in, what case does he make? would he go directly at these issues of honesty and trustworthiness? >> you know, i'm not even sure he needs to go to those issues because the press is doing so much. i think the case he makes is i've got as much if not more foreign policy experience and i don't have any baggage. the problem with this clinton e-mail story is that it's not going away. there's new revelations practically every week, and it's been a drip, drip, drip now for, what, six months, and her response to it is really not the best. we see her joke about it.

you know, when your e-mail users are under doj investigations, you shouldn't be laughing. >> this e-mail thing is overblown. past seconds of state have it at the time 2009 this was a practice you could make a choice. >> colin powell did it at the very beginning. >> you know what i would have said because i was in the cabinet i would have said, you know what, i don't want an official classified e-mail system. i want to have my own private server. why? because of wikileaks and because of hacking and because of leaks. >> no one else in the cabinet did. >> well, colin powell did. >> colin powell didn't set up his own server. and you look at former cia director john deutch had to be pardoned by bill clinton for keeping classified information on unsecured computers at home. >> is there any classified or unclassified -- there's no classified e-mail. there's no -- there's nothing there >> anyone who served in government and handled classified material knows this is appalling, and if they did a similar thing, their career would be at risk and they'd be in legal jeopardy and

that's why it's so serious. >> but there's no classified e-mails. >> you don't know that. there have been e-mails that have been identified for further review. >> this is overblown. this is political. this is political. you guys are -- >> the fbi is not political. >> listen, it is not political when you're talking about the department of justice and the fbi. you know, was it political against david petraeus? when you're talking about national security -- >> we don't know exactly what the fbi is looking at right now but i do want to move on to donald trump and the republicans right now. nancy gibbs, you sat down with him this week on the cover of "time" magazine and he's just about everywhere and certainly seems to be working so far leading, you know, the lead which a lot of people thought would dissipate solidifying across the summer. >> we talk about politics like it's physics with immutable laws. with him, everything that was supposed to sink him has lifted him instead so i think the fascinating question, not what he would or would not do as president but what he will or will not do ash >> he's not going to answer a lot of that. >> it's august. why write the end of the story when what we're seeing is a fascinating change in the

landscape that is affecting obviously the other republican candidates. it's affecting the conversation. it has many more people paying attention than we've ever seen at this stage of the race. that which i think is all to the good to be having 24 million people tune in to a debate is great. >> it's stunning. >> and is amazing, and so you know what i'm interested is is he the only one who can make the moves he's making, say the things he's saying. we have seen other candidates who go down the same road. when jeb bush uses the term anchor babies he gets much more in trouble with it because he knows that's not a term he should be using and makes him look disingenuous. >> he was using it as a term of reference. using it in a completely different way than donald trump was. >> he does seem to be playing by or at least held to a different set of rules, a different set of standards, but, matt, you're digging into the numbers and you think there's a little bit less there than meets the eye. >> it doesn't take a lot of

digging. you did try to pin him down. i commend you for it. you got nowhere with him but you tried, right? >> that's all you can do is ask the question. >> look, i don't think we're reporting this with a lot of perspective. i get that it's a great story but, look, he has a finite plurality right now with the republican electorate because he is the collision of entertainment and politics. he's a tv star and he's hit on an issue that brings out a great well of emotion in some part of the republican electorate. but, look, the reason we talk about donald trump as winning, solidifying a lead is because the broad swath of the republican electorate is divided among all -- everybody over the position of dog catcher is running for president. you've got more than ten serious candidates which means, you know, they're all dividing the field and right now nobody has stepped up to fill that void. >> that's the question. why can no one else consolidate any support? >> yeah, it's been remarkable. no idea, no policy proposal. no argument from the other candidates has caught fire the way donald trump has. and, yes, matt, i think you're right.

it's finite plurality, but every other candidate would kill to have that finite plurality right now, and you have to believe the evidence of your eyes, 20,000, 30,000 people in mobile, alabama. he generated the kind of enthusiasm we haven't seen in republican politics for a long time. >> that's not new hampshire and part of this, we have to admit, is media giving him so much oxygen such a great story -- >> no question about that. but the question is, where does the energy go now that it has been unleashed? ana, that's the question i want to bring to you because there's this big debate going on. does he end up defining the republican party with some of these positions or do his rivals define themselves in opposition to him? >> yeah, i think there's people that have taken different tacts. some are running tall with him and some are confronting him and i think it's going to, frankly, depend on who ends up being the nominee. if the nominee is somebody like a jeb bush, like a john kasich, like a marco rubio, no, he won't end up

defining the republican party. if it's donald trump or somebody like ted cruz who ran close to him then we have a completely different perspective but i think, look, i think donald trump has figured this out. he's got us all running in the donald trump hamster wheel. he says something controversial, we cover it. they make everybody else running, you know, react to it and we go from one controversy to another. >> you know, i've run for office for 30 years. crowds, polls, that doesn't get the vote out. what gets the vote out is organization, get your base out. my prediction is this guy towards early in the iowa caucuses flames out. he'll be a factor, but he won't win. >> who's positioning themselves best to pick up his votes if he does, indeed, fall? >> probably ted cruz. i think he's being underestimated. he very well could win iowa. and if he wins iowa, he has much more resources and organization than the past winners of iowa, rick santorum and mike huckabee

but i think one thing people underappreciate about trump, this isn't just a right wing phenomenon. you look at his supporters, it's across the party, it' not just tea partyers but it's moderates so it could scatter in unpredictable ways if he does deflate. >> nancy, when you sat down with him this week, i get the sense from him and his people that over the summer they've been focusing on what comes after iowa and new hampshire and he's at least planning in being for a long time. >> i think they've been taken -- we asked how surprised he was by this. it isn't just the political class that has been sort of shocked by what has happened. i think he is too. but, you know, this is -- it's really worth remembering that above all, this is a very successful salesman, and what we are seeing right now is an act of salesmanship. i don't think this is about policy as much as talk about the immigration plan. i'm not sure he is fully aware of everything in the immigration plan. during our interview some of the things he said were entirely aligned with what is actually in the white paper. i think right now this is much more about the discontent people feel with everything about our

political system. it isn't anger, i think, so much as discouragement and they're willing to experiment. they're willing to experiment with someone who sounds very different than the last guy they experimented with which was barack obama who too -- >> i wouldn't underestimate the importance of the immigration issue. because this is the issue where the elites of both parties, democrats and republicans, are most out of touch with popular sentiment and we're not going to deport everyone. we're not going to bring them back. both sides of those equations are -- >> very small -- >> -- absurd, but he is hitting on something very important and his polling the republican field in a more populist direction which -- >> it's going to cost -- it's going to cost election day with the hispanic vote. 40% is what any republican candidate needs to win the presidency. mitt romney talked about self-deportation. he got 23%, and i believe donald trump is -- because of the

hispanic vote is going to be so insulted by what he has said, and that's 11% of the voters -- >> matt bai. >> when he talks about what's driving the field this is where the other republican candidates are making a mistake. they seem to think and maybe driven somewhat by the media they seem to think they need to outtrump trump to get his voters. that broad base of the republican electorate, the votes they actually can get and should get hasn't found a candidate and they should be speaking, i think, to that constituency that can put them over the top instead of trying to get voters -- >> which may be why jeb bush -- >> i don't think everybody is trying to outtrump trump but candidates are confronting trump. >> that's going to be the last word today.

it through♪ before we go i want to make sure you tune in to abc tonight. my "gma" co-anchor and friend robin roberts has a special tonight. it's called "katrina: 10 years after the storm" at 10:00 eastern. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight" and i'll see you tomorrow on "gma."

>> in the news this sunday, the northern california man who stopped a train attack in france. they tell their story of what happened. and also the progress by firefighters on another wildfire burning in lake county. >> good sunday morning. this is emeryville. a cloudy start. 63 degrees. and sunshine on the way. we will talk about your afternoon highs and a little bit of a warmup for the week ahead of a warmup for the week ahead next on the abc7 morning and i'm a gas superintendent for pg&e. as a gas superintendent, i'm responsible for the safety of the public and our employees. pg&e is using a lot of new technology to improve the safety and reliability of our pipelines. my wife and i live in the bay area with our two kids. this is where i choose to raise my family. i want it to be as safe as it can be for our customers, for my family, for my friends. that's what drives me. pg&e is here to help our customers. we're here to deliver power,

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