>> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. the final stretch. >> an election's not a referendum it's a choice. >> if you want our country to fail vote democrat. >> too much at stake. >> just over two weeks until the midterms over 7 million votes already cast.

this morning, a look at the races that could determine the balance of power as we come to you live from arizona. >> arizona is about electing kari lake. >> what's at stake in this election? >> democracy is at stake. >> election deniers in a battle to take over the gop. >> the party leadership is a cabal right now. >> a cabal of what? >> a cabal of like-minded thugs. >> i know you guys want to act like the republican party is fractured it's not. >> we traveled the state speaking to both candidates for governor and voters. >> we're on our way to becoming a socialist country. >> i used to be a republican and i no longer am. >> why? >> because of trump. >> joining us this sunday, rick klein with our new poll and the latest forecast from fivethirtyeight. the democrat tasked with holding the house, sean patrick

maloney joins us live. and our powerhouse roundtable is here to break down the state of play. >> announcer: from abc news this is a special edition of "this week" live from phoenix, arizona, here now jonathan karl. good morning and welcome to "this week." we're coming to you live this morning from arizona, part of our special coverage of the midterms, now just 16 days away. arizona of course is one of the states that could decide control of congress but this cycle it's become something even more, ground zero in the battle for the future of the republican party and perhaps a harbinger the future of our democracy. every major republican running for statewide office here has refused to accept the results of the 2020 presidential election, alth although, as you'll see one of them recently backtracked the republican candidates for governor, secretary of state

and attorney general have all signalled they want massive changes to the way arizona conducts its elections. not a small feat in a state that played a central role in the 2020 presidential election and may well again in 2024. this morning, we're going to meet some of the conservative republicans here who are fighting against the trump election deniers in their own party, and we're going to examine the battle for the heart and soul of the republican party in the land of john mccain and barry goldwater. we've been on the ground here for days talking to republicans and democrats, we've spoken to the two candidates for governor. bitterly divided over arizona's future. a race with national repercussions because it's been one animated by lies and misinformation that strike at the heart of american democracy. we begin this morning with the national state of play, 16 days until election day voting already under way in 34 states. abc news political director rick klein is here to break down fivethirtyeight's latest election forecast and the results of our new abc news poll with ipsos.

good morning, rick. tell me, it seems like the momentum here nationally has shifted towards the republicans, is that what you're seeing? >> things look a lot different than they did just a few weeks ago. take a look at this. our partners at fivethirtyeight now show a slight lead in polling average in the so-called generic ballot for republicans, are you likely to vote for a republican or a democrat this fall? over in the house the republicans have a distinct average, it's a growing advantage, 8 in 10 chance that the republicans take control of the house. in the senate the democrats still have an edge, but that edge has been shrinking and shrinking fast, right now it's not just much better than a coin flip that democrats keep control of the senate that's now 50/50. >> we have our new poll, rick, it seems that the issues set, driving this election, also favoring republicans. >> yeah, this poll with ipsos shows that both parties have

areas of strength. republicans are opening up a significant gap, on inflation, crime, issues around the economy, double-digit-plus gap, that's what the campaign has been about. now democrats have their issues as well, they have advantage on gun violence, abortions, climate change, but the problem for them, those aren't the issues motivating voters but it's the issues around economy. if this campaign is about inflation, high prices, about crime, republicans have a big, big advantage. >> here in arizona, senator mark kelly, the democrat obviously running against blake masters, tight race, you have been saying that this could come down to something you're calling mccain democrats. >> jon, a microcosm of what we have seen around the country. this used to be red territory. maricopa county, john mccain won right here in 2016 by 16 points.

fast forward four years, mark kelly and joe biden both win this state, biden winning by barely 10,000 votes, so the battle right now is it's over suburban voters, it's new voters in this fast-growing county, it's over latino voters, and these are the trends you're seeing everywhere. these voters who voted republican have been voting democrat, where they land determines where arizona lands. take a look at this, if this just one senate seat flips, blake masters is able to beat mark kelly in a few weeks, republicans go from 4 in 10 chance to 8 in 10 chance. >> thank you very much, rick. appreciate it. we came to arizona in part because this state is ground zero in the battle over the future of the republican party. there's no doubt at least for now the trump forces ar ss are

winning. but we found a dedicated band of republicans fighting back not only for arizona but the whole country. nowhere is the trump takeover of the republican party as aggressive as it is in arizona, the gop candidate for secretary of state, he's taken the oath of the militant group of the oath keepers and he was there on the capitol grounds of january 6th. now he's running to oversee arizona elections. there's the election denying candidate for attorney general and the trump-backed blake masters at the very top of the ticket the new maga star kari lake. >> we want to replace the woke garbage with common sense. >> reporter: longtime arizona news anchor she's wowed the trump forces by attacking vaccines, insisting trump won the election and hitting the news media every bit as hard as she hits democrats. >> do you have a minute to chat? >> i'll do an interview as long as it airs on cnn plus, does

that still exist? i don't think so. thank you. >> reporter: lake's campaign lives for moments like that, all captured on camera by her husband. he and his camera are always there. including when we met here in phoenix. is jeff here? >> yeah, he's right there. in the cowboy hat. >> can i say hi? >> yes, of course. >> reporter: for lake and others repeating trump's lies about the 2020 election is a defining issue. >> we will no longer accept rigged elections. who's with me on that? >> reporter: while trump accolades swept through the primaries here this year, an old guard of conservative republicans trying to fight back. >> the party leadership is a cabal right now. >> a cabal of what? >> a cabal of like-minded thugs. their whole methodology seems to be -- i'm talking about party leadership. we're going to beat you into

submission. it's our way or walk the plank. >> reporter: republican speaker of house rusty bowers testified before the january 6th committee this summer telling the dramatic story about how he refused the demands of donald trump to overturn joe biden's victory in arizona. >> i didn't want to be used as a pawn. >> reporter: that earned him death threats and a decisive defeat in the republican primary. bowers leaves office in january but the republican leadership of arizona's largest county is still here and determined to push back against the election deniers in their party. >> you're a republican. >> i am. >> lifelong republican. >> yes. >> reporter: bill gates is the chairman of the maricopa county board of supervisors, why have republicans questioned the integrity of the elections that are overseen by your office? >> it hurts my heart to say why they've done it, because they think it's good politics. if you don't believe in this

perspective that 2020 was stolen, then you're not a good republican, you're a rino, we've never seen that before and that's what's dangerous to our party but more importantly to this democratic republic. >> reporter: another lifelong republican, he's the guy actually running the election here. >> this is where every single ballot is counted except for those who are cast in person on election day, those are fed directly by the voter into a mini tabulator. zblsh keep in mind most people in arizona vote by mail. what percentage of arizona voters vote early? >> in the august primary about 85%. >> how about in 2020? >> 1%. >> reporter: he points out that none of the computers used to count the voters are connected to the internet, they can't be hacked. >> even if everything was hacked, even though this has no connection to the internet, even if every electronic file

was deleted it would still be revealed in a post election -- because we have 100% paper ballot for every vote cast. we would be able to determine if the tabulators read the ballots correctly. >> reporter: and there are multiple steps along the way to ensure only registered voters vote. and nobody can vote more than once. but he's bomb barred every day with lies from his own party's leadership. >> there's a whole culture, a whole industry of people in leadership positions who are now motivated to propagate this falsehood. >> reporter: he's too has faced death threats, lots of them, and he's seen rank-and-file election workers taunted and intimidated. are you worried about those threats? >> i don't love it. more importantly, the team here and the continued success of these operations, the continued viability of these operations. >> reporter: repeating the lies is how the people now dominating

the republican party here earned donald trump's endorsement. black masters the trump-backed senate candidate running against democrat mark kelly, has reversed course. >> he's duly sworn and certified, unfortunately for all of us. >> reporter: even kari lake is talking less about 2020 now. insisting it's quote a media obsession. but election lies have propelled lake to stardom among trump diehards. leading to growing talk that she could be trump's running mate in 2024. my question is, if you're elected will you commit to serving all four years as governor? >> i'm going to serve eight years as governor of arizona. >> is that a mittment that you'll finish your term? even if donald trump comes to you i want you to be my running mate, you'll say no because i made a commitment -- >> i have to laugh at this question, because first of all -- >> i'm not asking because i think you should be his running

mate, this was something written in the national review, and one of our top supporters told me a couple of days ago she's the running mate if trump runs. my question was just a simple one. >> okay, i'm hearing this a lot on the campaign trail and what i think is happening, jonathan, is the media is trying to scare the public that i'm going to leave, i'm devoted and dedicated to saving arizona to turning it around. i'd like to say i'm the fake news' worst nightmare. i'm going to have two terms as governor. >> reporter: if she were to step down to be donald trump's running mate under arizona law, it would be secretary of state who would become governor. that would be mark finchem the guy who was at the capitol on january 6th. joining me now here in phoenix is donna brazile and mark short, thank you for making the trek out here. mark, what does it say about the

republican party that a guy like rusty bowers, the speaker of the house here, lifelong conservative, is exiled from his party because he will not lie about the 2020 election? >> i think that rusty is an admirable public servant and he served the people of arizona well. i'm sorry to not see him in office. i also think republicans are going to win arizona and they're going to win in november because it's a referendum on joe biden and what you're seeing here in arizona is record numbers of illegal immigrants last month crossing the border. 2.5 million over the last 12 months. inflation at a 40-year high. those issues that are driving this midterm elections. that's why republicans will win in arizona and across the country. >> we'll get to that issue set. the issues seem to be favoring republicans right now, another part of the poll that i want to bring up right now, we asked about, you know, if a candidate denies the election, are you

more or less likely to support them? look at this, only 8% of voters said more likely to vote if they denied the results. why are they doing it? they're still doing it. is it really just an audience of one, they're afraid of upsetting donald trump, or do they believe this stuff? >> i question whether they truly believe it, i think it was something that was done in the primary to curry favor with donald trump. but i think the media has focused on one side of this. the last three times republicans have been elected president scores of democrats voted against certification. >> not scores. a handful. >> more than 30. actually more than a dozen. >> a score is 20. >> democrats who voted against certification when there was no evidence of fraud. so this is something that even this election cycle joe biden has said the election reforms in

georgia are jim crow 2.0. you have record numbers of people voting early in georgia, record number of african americans voting early, and yet the democrats are saying it's jim crow 2.0? >> it is. it is. unfortunately it is jim crow. >> how? >> it's jim crow as you know allowed anyone to challenge the validity of the vote, there are many african americans and young people especially, who are going out to vote and they're being challenged. here's the level set that we should do in 2022, we know that the electoral headwinds have shifted a little bit, maybe shifted toward the issues that republicans care about -- >> crime, inflation, gas prices, the economy. >> absolutely, and if you list every one of those issues including immigration, there's no plan the republicans are offering, they're offering a basic compact with voters they just want power. here's what i believe, i think democrats are going to once again surprise the pundits,

surprise the status quo, they will do well, early voting is looking good not just in arizona but across the country. democrats have ideas, they also would challenge these election deniers. over half of the people running on the republican side are election deniers and not only are they election deniers many of them showed up at the united states capitol where we saw over 140 people, cops get injured, so this election is a referendum on the future and which party will promise to protect, defend and ensure that every american -- defend our democracy and ensure that every american has freedom and prosperity. >> again, record number of african americans turned out in georgia right now, i don't know how that's jim crow 2.0, i think that the election this cycle is going to be referendum on joe biden and why republicans are going to win.

>> is it a referendum on the trump takeover on your party, though, because he does loom large. he was in texas -- he was in texas, yesterday, not exactly a battleground that's going to determine the control of congress, he seems to want to get out there but there seems to be the suggestion -- if you were campaigning in pennsylvania or in georgia or in nevada, would you want donald trump out here campaigning for you? >> i think it's clear that donald trump had a huge influence over the primary, he has a core base of roughly 30%. but i think as you head into the general election i mean i think it's obvious that republicans need broader support than just the core support that donald trump brings. >> look, i think donald trump is the music in the heads of many republicans, they're listening to him, they're repeating his lies about the last election, but the failure of the republican party to break away from someone who's being

investigated not just at the federal level but also in the state of georgia, state of new york, the fact that republicans are comfortable running with donald trump and not running on their own agenda speak volumes. look, joe biden hasn't been a perfect president. i don't believe we've had a perfect president. you know what he's been a president who's put his elbow into issues, whether fixing our supply chain problem, it's working to lower our gas prices. >> why isn't he out there? >> he was in pennsylvania. he's going to florida on november 1st. >> obama in 2010 was doing 16 rallies. >> look, these candidates are running on their records and in some cases like tim ryan they're running on what they hope to do in future not what they're doing today. democrats have a good message in this closing moment, who's on

your side? will republican raise your wage? they're complaining about gas prices, but they won't raise your wage. will they help to lower prescription drug prices? no. so will the republicans cut medicare and social security? i think democrats have a way to compete with republicans, although the electoral environment is going to get to tougher. >> i haven't seen a lot of democrats campaigning on what they've accomplished. frankly they've been trying to scare voters about donald trump and that's their primary message and that's whay as you just said on your issues set, immigration, crime, which is why i think in pennsylvania and inflation -- >> do you think control of senate will come down to a runoff in georgia again? >> i do. i think it will come down to runoff in senate. >> herschel walker, your majority or not majority will depend on herschel. >> i think he did well enough in his last debate to go to runoff. when the runoff happens in georgia -- >> donna disagrees with him doing very well. >> the bar was so low. >> does trump go back and

campaign? >> i hope if he goes back to georgia he encourages people to vote this time as opposed to encouraging them not to vote. >> i believe stacey abrams is underrated. she'll do well, too. we got to take a quick break. the roundtable will be back later. but first, the man tasked with maintaining the democratic majority in the house, is he about to lose his own seat in congress? we'll talk to sean patrick maloney next. maloney next.

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menthol topical pain relief brand. works fast. lasts long. cool the pain with biofreeze. the election is not a referendum, it's a choice and the republicans criticized my economic record but look at what i've inherited and what i've done. and look at what they're offering, it's megamaga trickle down. megamaga trickle down. the kind of policies that have failed the country before, and will fail it again >> that was president biden

making the case against republicans and what looks to be shaping up to a challenging midterm election for democrats, joining me now is the man in charge of leading the effort to defend the democratic majority in the house, representative sean patrick maloney, congressman maloney, thank you very much for joining us. so you've been pretty optimistic all along, you still feeling good about your chances in the house? >> oh, look, you guys have been writing us off for two years and we just went to work fixing people's problems, helping veterans with health care, taking on big drug companies, passing gun safety legislation, bringing jobs back from china, we've got a record of progress and we're doing a lot better than people thought we would and we are in a very competitive election and we know it's going to be a challenge and hard. my mom used to say everything

good in life is hard, you got to go work. >> okay, we know the historic trends first midterms for a president's party are tough, you scoffed at the historic record back in november of 2020 when you were running for the job you now have and i want to bring up a quote from what you said back in november 2020. i don't give a damn about the past, you said, i'm not a historian my job is not to whine about it my job to win. if i get this position we're going to break that curse and we're going to win seats, write it down. okay, as you can see, we wrote it down, you still think you're going to win seats, pick up seats in the house? >> well, why not? we're doing better than anybody predicted. i'd like you to meet congressman pat ryan, down 3 to 7 points. we won in alaska for goodness sake, i said alaska, we have a democratic woman representing

alaska. so let's let the voters speak, because when they have spoken it turns out that has taken away 50 years of reproductive freedom, all the privacy rights we used to take for granted. it turns out that they care we're making progress on the problems and we have a plan to bring down the costs to help our seniors, veterans, the other side is working on their own power, they've got a ploy to win back power. we've got a plan to fix your problems. yes, when voters have spoken we've done well. >> i recall in 2010 president obama doing 16 rallies all across the country in the month of october alone, we don't see much of joe biden out on the campaign trail. i know he's announced an event in florida for next week, but why aren't we seeing biden out more, would you like to see him out more? >> well, i saw him in

poughkeepsie, which is my district, where we announced $120 billion of private sector investments in upstate and hudson valley, new york, jobs coming back from china, whether you've got a high school degree or a ph.d.. i stood on the stage with him and celebrated an economic plan to rebuild upstate new york with good jobs and manufacturing jobs and construction jobs, so i guess i don't know what you're talking about -- we know what the results are -- >> you don't know what i'm talking about. you don't know what i'm talking about. but, excuse me, like i said, obama 16 rallies in the month of october alone during his first midterm and we're not seeing that -- he went to poughkeepsie, he's going to go to florida, there was a trip to pennsylvania, but as you know he's not been out there as much as previous presidents. even as much as president trump

in 2018. >> wait, and donald trump lost 42 seats in 2018 and we lost -- >> is that what you're worried would happen? >> well, i guess we got a strategy that might work out better than those. in my own district, in my own district, where the republicans are lighting on fire $7 million trying to beat me, i stood next to a president who's bringing jobs back from china, fixing the problems that are concerning people. i don't think voters want to punish the person fixing the problem and reward the person trying to exploit the person for political gain, so why don't we let the strategy play out of trying to solve problems, when voters have spoken we've won. >> so you're obviously bullish on president biden, would you like to see him run for re-election? >> look, the president will make that decision. i think if he keeps getting the results that i want for the

people i represent, good jobs here in america, whether you got a high school degree or a ph.d. helping our seniors, we capped your out of pocket costs in medicare a plan for safe streets, i brought $7 million back for good policing here in the hudson valley. those are the kind of results that voters want and if we keep getting results i think voters will reward that whether you're the president of the united states or a member of congress. >> speaking of new york, as you mentioned the republicans have gone in big to try to defeat you, they think your seat is winnable, we've also seen recent polling showing that governor hochul is facing a very tough challenge from lee zeldin, a republican, could we see democrats in trouble in new york of all places? >> well, what i can tell you is that the other side is acting like angry people and they're lashing out with what they've

got, which is big, dark maga millions. like i said, they're lighting on fire $7 million trying to beat me and on the day after the election they're going to lose this seat and wish they had $7 million. i don't want those people making decisions about my national security, economy or the reprubtive freedom. they're angry people, using dark maga millions to try to win power. they have no plan to fix your economy, they have no plan to make our streets safer. we know what they're going to do to our reprubtive freedoms. they look the other way when our democracy, our voting rights, our very capitol is attacked. no, what you're seeing a bunch of irrational angry decisions using money, not a plan to help our communities or move our country forward. >> all right, congressman maloney, thank you very much. we'll write it down again, still saying you can pick up seats in the house.

thank you very much. >> look -- coming up next, i challenge kari lake about the false claims that the 2020 election was stolen. that's next. that the 2020 election was stolen. that's next. - [narrator] if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, getrefunds.com can qualify you for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if you got ppp. and all it takes is eight minutes to find out. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms and submit the application. that easy. getrefunds.com has helped businesses like yours claim over $1 billion in payroll tax refunds. but it's only available for a limited time. go to getrefunds.com powered by innovation refunds.

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keeping faith with the constitution that we'll always keep our oath, we'll stand for the constitution, uphold its principles. even when it would be politically expedient to do otherwise, because if conservatives don't defend the constitution we just won't lose elections we'll lose our country. >> that's vice president mike pence this week putting some distance between himself and the trump-endorsed candidates that falsely claim that the 2020 election was not legitimate. no candidate has been more forceful in spreading donald trump's lies about the election than the arizona republican candidate for governor kari lake. when i sat down with her earlier this week we talked about her campaign and some of her policy proposals, that interview aired on "gma3" on friday. when lake brought up false claims about election fraud, the conversation turned to 2020. here's that part of the interview. as governor would you seek to change the election laws

specifically would you look to limit early voting and mail-in voting in arizona? >> i don't know how exactly we'll do it but we'll secure our election, restore faith in our elections, make sure our elections are honest and transparent. >> i assume everyone wants that, but specifically early voting and mail-in voting, would you seek to limit it? >> i think going back to when i first started voting in the '80s we had election day. our constitution says election day, it doesn't say election season or election month. the longer you drag that out the more fraught with problems. we just saw problems this week with katie hobbs, my opponent, she sent out 6,000 ballots the wrong ballots to the wrong people. >> but she was the one who pointed this out -- >> i don't care if she pointed it out -- >> reporter: earlier this week, katie hobbs announced that 6,000 ballots printed with only

federal races were incorrectly sent to voters. corrected ballots are now being mailed out. my question is, whether or not you'd limit mail-in voting, given that so many people in this state, like 90% vote early. >> we want to shore-up our elections so that they're very honest and voters know it's an honest system. a couple facts, 2,000 mail-in ballots were accepted by maricopa county after election day in 2020. >> reporter: that was a new one on us. so we took the claim to election officials in maricopa county and they told us it's just not true. some ballots were scanned the next morning giving them a time stamp after election day but, again, those ballots were turned in on election day by the deadline. lake offered other

unsubstantiated and disproven claims. arizona's 2020 election was the most scrutinized in the state's history and there's no evidence of widespread fraud. a comprehensive investigation by the county found, quote, 100 potentially quesionable ballots cast out of 2.1 million. hardly enough to change the results. >> i certainly hope that we're going to talk more about elections today because i sat here to talk about my policies. >> since you brought up -- i didn't ask about 2020. >> i find it funny that media thinks i'm only talking about elections, i'm talking about lot of things. >> but let's be clear, you brought it up not me. i asked you about rules and the early voting, i didn't ask you about 2020. >> and i want to explain to you why mail-in ballots can be fraught with error. >> you haven't said that you'll accept the certified results of this election even if you lose this election. >> i will accept the results of this election if we have a fair,

honest and transparent election, absolutely 100%. >> so if you were to lose and you're ahead, but if you were to lose and you went out and all your appeals went through -- >> as long as it's fair, honest and transparent. >> who's going to determine that? >> it looks like my opponent might have to determine that. that's an interesting conundrum, isn't it? >> you said something last week that there were 740,000 ballots with no chain of custody, are you really saying that you would throw out the battle lots of arizonians? >> violated the chain of custody in maricopa county -- >> that's not true. they put out a report that -- >> that's a fact. that's a fact. check your facts. >> we took that claim to maricopa county officials who refuted lake and pointed to the

statement they issued back in may. saying the county always had control of the ballots. adding, they quote, were sealed in envelopes and secured in boxes that bipartisan couriers just to be clear, the ening.- republicans on the board of supervisor, the republican candidate running for senate, the republican attorney general under donald trump, bill barr, all said that there wasn't, that the election wasn't stolen. >> are we going to sit and litigate this? i'd be happy to do it. >> i'm just wondering, why would they all lie? >> we have a lot of corruption in this system and i think a lot of people who were responsible for that election know that there were rules broken and laws broken, and they don't want to admit fault. that's fine. we're going to go forward. we're going to make sure going forward our elections are secured. >> the roundtable is back with more from phoenix, we'll be right back. hoenix, we'll be right back.

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shot at winning in colorado, in washington, in new hampshire and in connecticut, we have opportunities to win across the country. i think 52-plus. >> we're back live in phoenix with donna, mark and somehow rick klein snuck his way on to this set. rick, you guys all heard that kari lake interview, really remarkable the way she clings to those election claims even as she says she doesn't want to talk about it, but the bottom line is, you talk to trump supporters and they see her as the future of the trump movement. >> she's a glimpse into the future of the republican party, if she wins here, as much as we talk about control of the house and senate who controls the levers of state government in battleground states that determines how an election is administered going forward. did chance there's a close election here with kari lake as governor, when joe biden

won it was a big upset, donald trump wanted it overturn, the democratic secretary of state held the line, if those are republicans who believe that the last election was stolen and won't certify the next one that's a recipe for absolute chaos right here in arizona where republicans could be victorious. >> you know, mark, i got to say i was looking really hard to find the mike pence endorsement of kari lake and i couldn't find it. he's not endorsed her. >> i think he supports the ticket. >> why hasn't he endorsed her? is is there something that's holding him back? >> as i said, i think that he's going to support the republican ticket, jon, i think he believes the bigger concerns to the people in arizona are the crisis at the border, runaway inflation and the challenges we have with crime. >> you say lake raise the question about the certification of the election. her opponent is katie hobbs,

she's the secretary of state, among those certifying the election. i remember when stacey abrams run against kemp when he was the secretary of state four years ago calls for him to recuse himself i asked her about this would she recuse herself from calling balls and strikes on her own election this is what she had to say. there will be a perception of partiality. will you leave it so somebody else? >> we're having these discussions right now i don't want to talk about a hypothetical. >> but we know there will be an outcome and you're the secretary of state would be certifying it. >> yes. well, what i think is really important here is that kari lake has based her whole campaign on these election lies. we know that she's going to do that again if she loses. >> so, donna, she does need to recuse herself, doesn't she? >> look, she's running a really good campaign, a very professional campaign, and you know mark talks about the border, talks about crime, you go on katie hobbs' website, you know she gives real good problem-solving solutions to

everything from the border to the housing crisis, to the water shortages, but with regards to whether or not she'll distance herself there are people on her staff who are really helping her conduct this election. >> i mean, if there's a big controversy here -- >> there's staff not only in the secretary of state's office -- >> so she could pull herself out and let the staff do it. >> i haven't had a conversation with her on that but i know her to be competent, i know her to be true to her values and i know she's running hard across this state from flagstaff to phoenix. this notion about kari lake, yes, she's a big maga personality and donald trump loves maga personalities, but you know what, there's no there there you don't hear -- >> you don't think years of experience in television qualifies you --

>> you want to be my running mate? >> it probably wouldn't work out too well. >> i know. >> she's caught fire here. >> of course. she knows how to stir fire. the last thing the electorate need not just in arizona or the country, we don't need any more fire starters, we need people who are willing to compromise and help solve problems. >> we also saw the mike pence, the big speech he gave at heritage, he's been out there more, first of all making it clear that he's likely to run for president, but what is behind that? one of the phrases he used that caught my attention was encouraging people not to listen to siren song of populism, what is he talking about? this is about trump, right. >> jon, no, i think he was honored to be trump's vice president for four years and i think he was proud of their record and believes strongly that a lot of the populist

approach that donald trump brought to party is healthy for our party, a lot of focus on china, but i think where there's concern in some of the recent converts we welcome converts, some of the recent converts have expressed an allegiance to putin or to even president assad that's concerning to many who say, look, welcome them if they want to vote republican but let's not embrace the notion that our party is going to embrace butchers and dictators who have slaughtered innocent civilians across the globe. >> on this question of putin, take a listen. >> as russia continues its war of aggression in ukraine i believe that conservatives must make it clear that putin must stop. and putin will pay. there can no room in the republican party for apologists

for putin. >> a lot in this republican party for this movement. >> even what kevin mccarthy said that biden will have to work hard to prove that there's more funding to ukraine than necessary, he's trying to position himself as potentially the house speaker in a very fractured party, and i think, look, these are the issues that republicans are going to have to confront again, they'll have to take over and think about 2024, to say biden doesn't deserve this or that, i think pence and a number of other 2024 contenders are making an interesting case of what the republican party is. different than what donald trump is out there talking about. >> on this question of funding i thought it was very interesting to hear mccarthy say that, there are republicans in the house who side with putin over zelenskyy, marjorie taylor greene, the loudest of those voices, but why would mccarthy do that? is ukraine funding potentially

in jeopardy? >> i think so, jon. from a fiscal perspective we've already given billions. a small percentage perhaps show a sort of closer allegiance to putin and that's where i think there's a greater concern. consistent about foreign aid. it doesn't just apply to ukraine. >> but mccarthy was such a big booster of ukraine is he being like -- >> i think his comment about where he thinks the new republican conference is going to be. >> as you well know he's counting the votes, before all the eggs come in. you know mccarthy was speaking for a majority of his caucus they're going to question the aid to ukraine at a time when the ukrainian people are dependent on the west to continue to help them fight and put down this russian aggression. >> okay, we're almost out of time.

i want to quick predictions from the two of you, house/senate. >> i think the democrats will do very well in the senate, it's an uphill battle, a difficult political environment and in the house it won't be as bad as forecast. >> but republicans will win? >> i don't winners or losers. we have 16 days. >> i heard you do winners before. >> jon, i think the american people are tired of the problems that democrats created. i think we're going to win 25 seats in the house and the senate by the margin one. >> so the fate of the republicans in the senate is going to come down to georgia. >> been there before. >> you know what we have 16 days -- >> okay, we're out of time. we're out of time. fi what's it like having xfinity internet with supersonic wifi? it's fast... like beyond-gig-speed fast. yeaaaaaaaaay!!! with three times the bandwidth, and the power to connect hundreds of devices at once. get the xfinity supersonic bundle

with unlimited gig speed internet, wifi equipment included and a free 4k streaming box. all for $50 a month with a 2 year internet rate guarantee and no annual contract when you add xfinity mobile with unlimited data. switch today! really step up their campaigns. you're seek national figures flock to this set. >> we have tulsi gabbard. glenn youngkin coming to town for kari lake. >> that's your call. >> people see it, ron desantis is a potential presidential candidate. >> we're going to a j.d. vance rally. where he's going to be joined by senators tim scott and tom cotton. rule out a possible run in 2024? >> surely she's asking you.

a sneak preview there from the latest episode of "power trip." it drops later today on hulu. before we go a final thought out here in arizona i've seen ample reason to be worried about the future of our democracy, attempts to intimidate voters and election workers, rampant misinformation spread by people who know better and deep divisions between and amongst the parties, but when i visited the place where they actually counts the votes here in phoenix i saw a real sign of hope. a large room filled with tables at every table ss one democrat and one republican together they examine each ballot that comes in before it's processed. this is time-consuming work but it's important. these are arizonans from all walks of life and they're doing their duty without drama and without rancor, we can learn a lesson from them.

thank you to the faculty and staff to asu for hosting here in phoenix. we'll see you next week from dallas. as we continue to travel the country ahead of the midterm elections. have a great sunday. lechs. have a great sunday.

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