[ cheers and applause ♪ >> announcer: from 30 rockefeller plaza in new york, it's "late night with seth meyers. tonight -- ron and clint howard co-authors of "state of terror," hillary rodham clinton and louise penny an all new "closer look. fred armisene 8g band with ♪ [ cheers and applause and now, seth meyers [ cheers and applause >> seth: good evening. i'm seth meyers. this is "late night. we hope everyone is doing well

tonight. and i cannot stress enough to everybody here, this is an office building. [ laughter ] people are trying to get work done [ laughter ] let's get to the news. during his rally over the weekend, former president trump endorsed 88-year-old senator, chuck grassley, for re-election. "who the hell is chuck grassley," said chuck grassley [ laughter ] today was indigenous peoples' day. now, of course, some people still call it columbus day and to those people, i say, "how you getting back to jersey?" [ laughter ] path train [ light laughter ] in her new book, ex-white house press secretary, stephanie grisham, called republican senator, lindsey graham, "senator free loader," as opposed to trump, who doesn't call him at all. [ light laughter ] in a new interview -- well - [ laughter ] in a new interview, the ceo of airbnb said that the largest risk to big tech is that, quote,

"the world is rooting against them." luckily, they can't hear it from space. [ laughter ] according to a new report, the saudi royal family gave former president trump three robes made with white tiger and cheetah fur that turned out to be fake come on, you guys. even trump know that cheetahs don't look like this [ laughter ] the katmai national park in alaska recently concluded online voting in its, so-called, fat bear week. and a 25-year-old bear, named otis, won for the fourth time. or more accurately, a bear in alaska is being cyber bullied. [ laughter ] "congratulations, otis." [ laughter ] according to a new survey, 20% of americans said they have pretended to be bad at a task so they wouldn't have to do it again. [ light laughter ] so maybe that's what the mets are up to. one for the crew [ audience ohs ] [ cheers and applause not going to forget you guys you were there for me during the lean times [ light laughter ]

the boston marathon was held today. it's the only marathon that starts with someone yelling, "cops are here!" [ light laughter ] and finally, two men from the solomon islands were recently rescued after spending 29 days lost at sea, living off only oranges, coconuts, rain water and the third guy. [ audience groans [ light laughter ] oh oh, ian, oh, ian& so happy the groans are back [ laughter ] that's what ian wants to hear when he writes a joke like that. that was a monologue, you guys [ cheers and applause and we have a great show for you guys, tonight. we're so happy to have you we love authors here at "late night," so it made sense to start this new era with two authors. two sets of authors, i should say. ron and clint howard wrote a memoir of their lives growing up and trying to be actors who are also normal kids it's called, "the boys: a memoir of hollywood and family. i'm so excited to talk to them and they are the co-authors of the thriller "state of terror,"

hillary rodham clinton and louise penny will be here. [ cheers and applause two pairs of authors but, before we get to all that, the number two house republican refused to say that the 2020 election was not stolen from donald trump, while the biden administration blocked an attempt by trump to withhold documents related to the investigation of the january 6th insurrection at the capitol. for more on this, it's time for "a closer look." ♪ [ cheers and applause >> seth: there's a lot going on right now, from the gop's ongoing attempts to dismantle democracy, to centrist democrats holding up president biden's agenda, to bernie sanders holding press conferences in a leather chair, therapist style [ light laughter ] "how will we pay for it? oh what a great question. that is a new one! i've never heard that one before i'm going to write you a note that says 'tax the rich' and a prescription for some ginkgo

biloba." [ laughter ] but here's a moment from last week, that pretty much sums up my feelings about the current state of our politics. biden was asked about a short-term deal to avert economic catastrophe and raise the debt ceiling in response, he crossed his fingers. although, at first i thought he was going for a very different hand gesture >> mr. president, do you support the short term debt ceiling deal [ laughter ] >> seth: it really does encapsulate where we're at politically, that every response is coin flip between hoping for the best and then [ bleep ] off. [ laughter ] i definitely thought biden was going full bird there. mostly because of his technique. yes, his fingers were crossed, but he brought it up like he was cranking with the other hand [ laughter ] this was the risk we took when we elected president finger guns [ laughter ] those things are deadly weapons. they make him run it through the metal detector when he comes to work every morning [ light laughter ] with trump, i was always worried he was gonna say the wrong thing to a world leader. but with biden, i'm afraid a hand gesture is gonna get away

from him "bad news, the president tried to do an i see you to the sultan of brunei, and instead, he slipped and he three stooged him. "what? why didn't the sultan do a block hand i guess they don't have the stooges there. [ light laughter ] during the time you were gone, we did a lot of "mash" references, "star trek: next generation." but, obviously, now, human beings here, we had to freshen it up with the stooges [ laughter ] while biden was desperately trying to convince republicans to do the bare minimum to avert potential economic catastrophe over the debt ceiling, he was also refusing an attempt by his predecessor to shield documents from a congressional investigation into the insurrection on january 6th. >> nbc news, first to report earlier today, that the biden white house has decided, in fact, not to block the release of documents related to trump, his presidency and the insurrection the move sets up a leth -- a legal and potentially lengthy showdown between two presidents, current and former, over the

issue of executive privilege >> the white house is blocking former president trump from playing the executive privilege card and the committee investigating the january 6th insurrection says donald trump's minions will not get away with ignoring the rule of law. >> seth: okay, now, that's definitely a middle finger [ light laughter ] so, trump thought he could just unilaterally assert executive privilege. no questions asked you are not president anymore, dude that's not how it works. what's he going to do next, try to book a flight on air force one? "what do you mean i can't use the plane anymore? but what about all those miles i racked up? [ laughter ] can i transfer them to jetblue jetblue. [ laughter ] we love jetblue, don't we, folks? jetblue, the first place i ever had a terra chip [ laughter ] and i remember i remember i said to the stewardess, 'there's something wrong with my chip it's red [ laughter ] i have a red chip. and she told me -- she said to me, 'sir,' tears in her eyes, she said, "sir, that's a seasonal root vegetable.

[ laughter ] now, before we dive into that story any further -- the executive privilege story, not the trump, jetblue terra chip story. [ light laughter ] i think we got all we're going to get from that [ laughter ] and they said we couldn't do tangents when the audience came. we're going do -- gonna take a few tangents [ cheers and applause i do think -- i do think it's worth taking a quick step back to acknowledge that this is our first show with a live audience in 19 months well, to be fair, we did have a full audience one night this summer but they didn't laugh at anything, so we just pretended they weren't there and decided to wait a while before trying again. [ laughter ] it's been a long, strange trip we did a show in my attic and my in-law's house i befriended ethan hawke and a painting of a sea captain. i grew my hair out, and i started dressing casually, by choice, and not, as the daily mail reported, because i had to sell my suits to cover gambling losses incurred when i took the under on the mets having one

[ bleep ] season [ laughter ] second mets joke first one was in the monologue so, if you only watch this online, you got to go back and watch the monologue now. [ light laughter ] what's that? you're not going to because you live in austria and hate the mets jokes [ light laughter ] fair enough. [ light laughter ] over the last 19 months, i became closer with my crew, who were the only feedback i had in real time. speaking of the crew -- oh [ laughter ] oh, that's very interesting, because earlier today, wally said, "i bet the first time you cut to me i'll get a round of applause from the audience and yet -- [ cheers and applause doesn't count. doesn't count. it doesn't count no, no, no [ laughter ] no, no, no it doesn't count, because he didn't do it [ laughter ] you did nothing. when we cut to him, you did nothing. and i had to say it, and then you did it so it doesn't count. [ laughter ] doesn't count, wally >> that was too fast of a cut. >> seth: you didn't stipulate how fast the cut would be. >> this is an outrage! >> seth: outrage oh, we spent so much time together, we finish each other's sentences. [ laughter ]

the point is, right up until you gave wally what he wanted, i'm thrilled to be back in front of an audience. [ light laughter ] and i'm just hoping my audience is a little more enthusiastic than trump's audience. the man just refuses to go away. on saturday, he went to iowa to hold yet another rally, where he repeated the same deranged lies about the election that he's been repeating for months. and yet, even his own crowd wasn't exactly electrified by hearing the same old incoherent nonsense, over and over again. >> you know, i was up by massive numbers on election day. it was even -- the news was saying, wow, what a big lead in pennsylvania i love pennsylvania. i went to school in pennsylvania college. [ light laughter ] but, what a great state. and what great people. and i was up by so much. all of a sudden, the booths closed the tabulation centers are closed 3:00 in the morning. and shortly thereafter, we're tied they know they got caught. all you have to do is listen to

the numbers. and remember what i said, joe biden has launched a foreign invasion of his own country. come on in he said "come in." this is a -- this is a sick -- this is a sick thing that's happening to our country >> seth: wow and i was worried about bringing audiences back [ laughter ] i never thought i'd say this, but maybe you should go into lockdown you know, remote shows might be better for you you could borrow my attic. [ laughter ] although, if you were in my attic, i'd never get any sleep "honey, what's that noise? "i think he's talking about how windmills kill birds." [ laughter ] "it's 2:00 -- 2:00 in the morning. "i know, but he had, like, 50 diet cokes. [ laughter ] "why did you let him use our attic? "because he used to be president. i'm sorry that i respect the office!" [ laughter ] also, i love the cutaways to sullen trump fans just standing there in silence like tourists watching one of those gold statue guys in times square. [ laughter ] "so is he going to, like, do something?

[ light laughter ] and you can tell trump was waiting for a crowd reaction, too. i mean, look at him. it's like watching an open mic night at the senior center [ light laughter ] "joe biden said come on in come on in am i right [ laughter ] cyrus knows what i'm talking about. [ laughter ] cyrus? cyrus? get the paddles. what else? [ laughter ] it's been liberating not having to think or care about what this lunatic says or does on a daily basis for the last few months. unfortunately, the gop has not& felt the same way. they're still fully devoted to trump. he was joined at his rally by iowa senator, chuck grassley virtually the entirety of the republican party remains enthralled to trump and committed to the big lie, that the election was somehow stolen from him, as demonstrated by this interview the number two house republican, steve scalise, did on fox news sunday >> do you think the 2020 election was stolen from donald trump and in continuing to make that

charge, not having states do election reforms, but specifically making this charge that the election was stolen, do you think that that hurts, undermines american democracy? >> well, chris, i've been very clear from the beginning if you look at a number of states, they didn't follow their state passed laws. >> the states all certified. >> but they didn't follow those legislative rules. right. but at the end of the day, are we gonna follow what the constitution says? >> do you think the election was stolen or not? i understand you think there were irregularities and things that need to be fixed. do you think the election was stolen >> and it's not just irregular -- it's states that did not follow the laws set, which the constitution says they're supposed to follow >> seth: i like how they say the word irregularities, without actually specifying what that means. it's that vague mafia talk they've all adopted. "it's a shame what happened to your restaurant, but the boss got your last payment. and there was some irregularities." [ laughter ] these guys can't actually give an example of widespread fraud, because there aren't any, as multiple audits and roughly 60 court cases, including with several trump appointed judges,

prove. but all they have are these bat [ bleep ] conspiracy theories promoted by the rotating cast of weirdos who inhabit trump's orbit. rambling incoherently about nonsense, like italian satellites, hacking voting machines or mysterious midnight election dumps bamboo fibers on ballots last week, my pillow ceo, mike lindell, once again repeated the insane claim that dead people had somehow voted. >> i'll give an example, today 2,650 people over the age of 100. now, you might say, "well, wow, that's -- that could be -- that could be." 2,000 of them were over 200. wouldn't you like to live in that state [ light laughter ] there were 200 and something years old. so obviously they -- and one guy was 850. >> wait a minute they were 200-years-old? these people that li -- that are voting are 200-years-old of course, they're obviously not living >> they're obviously deceased. but, one guy was 850-years-old [ laughter ] okay and these are -- and these are facts. you can get them from your own

state's thing. >> seth: first of all, we know an 850-year-old who voted. okay [ laughter ] that's why rudy's neck is hunched. [ applause ] he sleeps in a coffin that's one size too small [ laughter ] "i couldn't afford the king size, 'cause i'm paying alimony to my cousin [ laughter ] it's not taboo amongst vampires. the immortal just have less to choose from. [ light laughter ] i also like how lindell says these are facts, but then he can't even name the database where he got them. he just says "you can get them from your own -- your own state's thing. [ laughter ] "i went online to the thing and saw all the dead people who voted by looking at their birthdays and counting up the years. [ laughter ] you know, that's nice. yeah [ cheers and applause nice to finally road test the lindell in front of an audience! [ cheers and applause yep.

crowd pleaser. crowd pleaser. [ laughter ] "did you see my new lion painting [ laughter ] i hope the lion's not too big. i hate for the lion painting to take away from my points." [ light laughter ] lindell, of course, is being sued for defamation by the election technology company, dominion and now even a deep red state like idaho is sending him a bill for an election audit, because his claims were bogus. and lindell's not the only one facing financial hardship thanks to his participation in the big lie. there's also rudy giuliani, who is reportedly drowning in legal bills after trump refused to pay him. and now, in a newly released deposition, rudy has explained why he worked for trump without payment. an attorney in a defamation suit against rudy asked giuliani whether he was ever paid to represent the trump campaign giuliani replied that he was not paid to represent the campaign and had been reimbursed for only his expenses, according to the

transcript the attorney then asked giuliani why he would represent the trump campaign without compensation. "the president -- the president ordered me to do it," giuliani said [ light laughter ] rudy, that's not how it works. your client can't just order you to do something for free you can't let trump push you around anymore you're a grown man you're 850-years-old [ laughter ] [ applause ] and yet, aside from some potential financial consequences for weirdos, like rudy and lindell, the co-conspirators who fomented the january 6th insurrection and orchestrated the attempted coup, have largely escaped accountability like texas senator ted cruz who hasn't faced any consequences for his role in trying to overturn the election results on january 6th. in fact, cruz is still there in the senate causing chaos just last week, he was whining that the gop had done the bare minimum to avert economic catastrophe and mustered just enough votes to help democrats raise the debt ceiling at the last minute. although, he chose a very weird analogy. >> i believe the end result of this game of chicken was clear

unfortunately, yesterday republicans blinked. i think that was a mistake but sometimes in a poker game a bluff wins the pot in this case, to mix my metaphors, which would make my high school english very angry, in the game of chicken, chuck schumer won this game of chicken. as two trucks drove towards each other on a country road, one or the other was going to turn or you were going to have a lot of dead chickens. [ laughter ] >> seth: what -- what the hell are you talk - [ laughter ] you think when two trucks play chicken on a country road they have to be full of chickens? [ laughter and applause that's not -- that's not why they call it chicken "the hardest thing about the

game of chicken is keeping your resolve. it's trying to concentrate above the din of terrified chickens. and the truck, because, of course, theirs are the lives at stake. [ light laughter ] the republican party has fully embraced trumpism and the big lie. they're trying to install trump loyalists key positions across the country. and passing laws that would make it easier to steal the next election one of his lawyers wrote an instruction manual for a coup, which they could easily use next time these people should face consequences for trying to destroy a democracy that, so far, has stood the test of time. in fact, if you ask mike lindell he'd probably say it's - >> 850-years-old [ laughter ] >> seth: this has been "a closer look." ♪ [ cheers and applause we'll be right back with ron and clint howard [ cheers and applause where you can pay a little less and enjoy the ride a little more. ♪ ♪

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♪ [ cheers and applause >> seth: for the first time in a year and a half, the 8g band is here in studio 8g. [ cheers and applause give it up and please help me welcome back eli janey, marnie stern, syd butler, seth jabour. and of course on drums, fred armisen [ cheers and applause so happy to see all of you left you a lot of messages, fred, over the last 19 months. >> fred: oh, you did >> seth: yeah. >> fred: i'm checking right now. [ laughter ]

>> seth: our first guests tonight are two hollywood legends that also happen to be brothers their new book, "the boys: a memoir of hollywood and family" is available tomorrow. please welcome to the show ron and clint howard [ cheers and applause ♪ >> seth: thank you for being here, fellas >> wow >> seth: so "the boys", this is not a -- this is the nickname your mom had not just for the two of you, corrct >> all three of her boys >> seth: the two boys and her husband. she called you guys the boys >> so, it's a little tribute to mom in addition to all the other stories that focus a lot on dad. but she -- without her, her energy, her vision, her creativity, none of it would have happened. >> seth: and one of the things you guys talked about is that your dad -- there was maybe a bit of a mythology about how

your parents met that over the years, he became a little honest a little more forthcoming about the truth. >> well, he waited -- he waited until mom passed before he really spilled the beans >> that is true. well, there was a whole -- look, their whole love story is kind of a fairytale. it's one of the reasons that we wanted to tell it. these two people, they had -- you know, they, later in life called themselves the sophisticated hicks. they had no business dreaming of hollywood. dad wanted to be a singing cowboy couldn't carry a tune. thank god nobody told him. [ light laughter ] but, they met at the university of oklahoma. they fell in love and, you know, the reality is they ran off to be in the business together. they ran to new york this magical place to try to do it and they actually succeeded but the story was always, "yeah, you know, i left and got a summer stock thing and she went to new york and then lo and behold we -- we discovered each other there again. and then we -- we somehow got cast in this children's theater thing together we both got jobs wow, and then we just, you know, we fell in love there and

eventually we got married in kentucky because they had no waiting period." this whole long story. they ran off they shacked up. [ laughter ] i mean, come on. and dad finally, when mom passed, he said, "you know, what am i probably 48 years old. you know why -- that story we told you --" dad, dad just -- you don't have to go there. we got it. we got it. >> seth: but this is - so you guys, obviously, got started very young so young, clint, you do not remember your first job on television >> oh no not at all in fact, it was probably - well, i've been in the business 60 years >> seth: yeah. >> i've been paying attention for 55 years >> seth: okay. [ laughter ] >> i sort of had a blackout there for the first five years >> seth: i do want to show this amazing photo. you were in an episode of -- i think you were seven years old when you were in an episode of "star trek." >> yes >> seth: the original "star trek." and what's the name of your character? do you remember that >> oh yes. [ audience aws ] i was commander balok in "the corbomite maneuver." [ laughter ] as you can tell -- as you can tell, i wasn't having

a very happy day there when i was getting the skull cap put on but it was better than the first alternative that they gave me. they really wanted to shave my head and as a kid going to second grade, i thought, "there is no way i'm going to go back to school with a bald head. >> seth: yeah. [ laughter ] i mean, even being on "star trek" couldn't make up for that. but your dad, he had a sense - you know, obviously, he had done, you know, he was in show business and he had kids who were going to be in it. and wanted you guys to have normal lives but he also wanted you to thrive and so tell the story about how he would fake a boom mic just so that you would be used to it if you were ever on set >> yeah. well, i mean, he -- my very first audition, i was still only three years old. and, you know, we learned the scene. turned out he was incredibly gifted at basically teaching kids how to understand how to act, not perform but really understand what was going on in a scene. so i had memorized the scene i worked it out. and it was for a movie called "the journey." and he realized that when you -- when i got from my screen test, there were going to be a lot of distractions

so he got an out of work acting buddy to come over and they hung a bucket from a string and he would, like, move it around. and -- "oh, no, don't look up at that just look at the other actor." my mom had a cereal box, pretending to be a camera that was kind of moving around. [ laughter ] and so, it was that kind of -- a little like tiger woods' dad yelling in a back swing. >> seth: yeah. >> but much kinder >> seth: well, i will tell you this i have a 3-year-old, and if there was a bucket in the room, forget it. [ laughter ] you know if there was a bucket within eyesight, he would be like "what? >> mom and dad understood the distractions of the business >> seth: yeah. >> both the physical distractions and then the psychological distractions and they were really good at heading those off. you know they always -- boy, they gave us so much confidence mom and dad gave us so much confidence it was just, you know, it was a beautiful life growing up. and also it was a beautiful life being this guy's little brother. [ audience aws ] >> seth: but now -- that's very nice but -- you also had to negotiate a little, clint, because you, at a very young age, obviously, you knew that you wanted to be

behind the camera. >> yeah. >> seth: you made some short films. and you were very kind to cast clint. there was a little something in it for you, right? >> well, i was getting more and more serious about making films. and wanted to enter a contest. the kodak teenage filmmakers contest. and they had a category called "the one reeler" where you had to plan out all of your shots and you couldn't edit it you just had to shoot it and send it in and i built the whole thing around this young kid. and it was kind of a twilight zone-ish sort of thing there was a part for clint, a part for dad and -- we're getting ready to do it something i carefully planned. i'm very nervous about it. and i asked clint to do it he sort of said yeah we get there we're getting ready to shoot and he says, "i -- i hear there's a cash prize involved if you win something. i said, "yeah. you can -- you know, first is $200 second's, you know, $150." and he said, "well, i'm going to need half of that. [ laughter ] >> and i told him, i said, "hey,

listen, bud. if you want to scour the neighborhood in teluca lake and see if you can find another 12-year-old that wants to be in your short, go right ahead." [ laughter ] >> seth: and you won >> i -- i came in second >> seth: so, did he show up for the money? >> hell yeah i mean, the minute -- i'm there beaming. i got a -- i came in second. and he's - [ laughter ] >> we had dad mediate. dad came in and immediately mediated and i prevailed and i got the $75. >> seth: what -- i mean, it must've -- you guys also talk about the fact that you were obviously, you know, you were in shows that were incredibly popular. you know, "andy griffith" and you were in "gentle ben" and people knew who you were and i always kind of wondered about something like this, because again, you went back and you tried to have a normal life. you played basketball. >> yeah, yeah. >> seth: but you're playing basketball and every single kid knows who you are. right? hold on. i have a great photo there you are there. >> yeah. [ laughter ]& >> seth: and i guess it made it pretty easy for the other team

to try to get in your head >> there was always a lot of that there was a lot of that at school you know and it was -- you know, it was something i had to learn to cope with, whether that meant i had to get in a fight, a wrestling match or something later, when i got into high school and we're playing at away games, you know, they'd rode me pretty hard. and at some schools, they'd do this thing where i'd be at the free-throw line having to take a couple foul shots. and all of a sudden you'd hear the band and the band would go - ♪ and then - [ laughter ] and i'm here and -- but i am proud to be say that i was a 60% free throw shooter at home where the crowd was friendly 87% on the road. >> seth: there you go. [ cheers and applause there you go i want to show this photo because i feel like i've seen so many photos of the "happy days" softball team over the years >> oh, it was a blast. >> seth: and here you are with

henry winkler, who, i think wes. just a deeply -- >> miserable s.o.b >> miserable human being person i've ever met >> godfather to all my kids, by the way. >> seth: really? well, you've chosen well clint, true story, you taught them to pitch? >> yes, i did. i played high school baseball and i had some pretty good chops. and had the opportunity to play on the "happy days" softball team >> sort of a ringer. we grabbed him onto the team >> and henry had no skill at all as a baseball player and yet within a few short weeks, he had learned to develop this wonderful pitch that sort of drifted inside. and he could tie up really good hitters. >> seth: well, much like your father, you were a good teacher. >> softball pitcher whisperer. [ laughter ] >> seth: we all need one gentlemen, congrats on the book. it's such a lovely read. and thanks so much for making the time for us tonight. >> pleasure, seth. [ cheers and applause >> seth: ron and clint howard, "the boys: a memoir of hollywood and family" is available tomorrow right back with hillary rodham clinton and louise penny [ cheers and applause ♪

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♪ [ cheers and applause >> seth: our next guests are the co-authors of the political thriller "state of terror," which is out now one is an award-winning best-selling author, and the other is a former senator, secretary of state, and the winner of the 2016 popular vote. [ laughter ] please welcome to the show louise penny and hillary rodham clinton [ cheers and applause ♪ ♪ [ cheers and applause >> seth: welcome to the show >> real people >> seth: real human beings >> real human beings >> seth: not bad, right? not bad. well, we're very -- we're very lucky to have you both on a night that the audience is here.

congratulations on the book. >> thank you >> seth: you've written non-fiction. louise, you have written mysteries. this is a thriller it's a little different for both of you how was your collaboration process? >> it was fabulous, i have to say. you know, louise and i were friends before the idea was presented to us, and i really came to know her through her amazing series, the gamache series, that i just loved. and when the idea was presented, i think both of us were, you know, a little -- you know, wondering how would this work? because we were friends. we didn't want to undermine our friendship and so we dove into it and we started working on outlines. >> well, we tried to figure it out, didn't we like, what are we going to write about? >> yeah, yeah. >> and you know, we though - first of all, if you've got a secretary of state, maybe you don't want to write about a secretary of transportation. >> seth: right [ light laughter ] >> so that was clear but the rest of it wasn't. >> seth: did you ever say, "you know, we could also write about a canadian mystery author" >> yes, i did! and hillary kept missing it. >> seth: classic hillary

>> that was classic hillary. >> exactly >> yeah, exactly so then there were times when we were -- because this was in the pandemic, right? so we couldn't even get together so we were doing facetimes and "what about this" and "what about that?" and then there were times we got ourselves so confused we thought each other's screen had frozen because we were just staring at each other [ laughter ] like, where do we go from here >> we had the dreams before the pandemic that, you know, we'd meet at a spa somewhere. >> seth: sure. >> you know, we'd spa all morning. [ light laughter ] >> we'd spa all morning. >> maybe write for an hour. we'd go back and spa some more. >> yeah, yeah. get a facial, exactly. >> none of that. >> seth: you probably got it done faster this way [ laughter ] >> i think we probably did >> seth: so, this is about a new secretary of state who - and there's also a character who's a former president who's reckless >> you could say that, yeah. >> i think there are other words. >> seth: from, uh -- he's from palm beach [ light laughter ] >> well, a lot of people live in palm beach >> seth: yeah, a lot of people live in -- right, yeah

but was he inspired by anyone? was there anybody in real life >> he is fictional, seth >> seth: yeah, yeah, yeah. >> he is fictional however, having lived through the prior four years - >> seth: yeah. >> it wasn't too hard to imagine. [ light laughter ] >> seth: yeah. >> and the president is someone who gets the country into a lot of trouble >> seth: yeah. >> yeah. and some of it of his own making, and some of it because he doesn't understand how other bad actors are actually using him. >> seth: right >> you know? so it doesn't too difficult for, you know, louise and i to think about this fictional former president. [ laughter ] >> no. no, no, no but i remember the moment when i asked you, like what -- what was your nightmare >> right >> when you were secretary of state what kept you awake at night? >> yeah, yeah. >> and -- and -- >> i had a list. [ laughter ] >> terrifying. so then she went through, and i said, "well, choose one," and you chose the nuclear option >> yeah, i mean, in the book the plot really revolves around the great fear that we always had,

and still do, that terrorists would somehow get a hold of nuclear weapons. either a dirty bomb or something more sophisticated, and it's a plot that we hope never, ever comes true in real life. but it is something of a cautionary tale about what could happen >> seth: when you were secretary of state, i imagine -- briefings all the time, and you would have a great burden - i would imagine, on you to make sure you're up to speed on everything but it would also, i would imagine, be important to find time to, like, shut your brain down a little bit. >> right >> seth: did you in those times -- were you reading fiction about worst-case scenarios or were you reading even lighter stuff >> lighter stuff >> seth: okay. >> lighter stuff, but also classic mysteries, like the ones that louise writes you know, and "people" and "us weekly." [ light laughter ] i mean, i was trying to keep up with what was actually going on in the world >> seth: sure, sure, yeah. >> not just what was in my briefings. >> seth: yeah. >> whereas i was reading intelligence reports >> seth: right [ laughter ] i have a lot more questions for both of you. we will be right back with more

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♪ [ cheers and applause >> seth: welcome back to "late night. we're here with hillary rodham clinton and louise penny louise, i have a question. you obviously had an expert who was telling you these are things that could actually happen being a canadian, were there times that american politics as explained by hillary to you seemed beyond comprehension? [ laughter ] >> what? you know, i have to say, seth. it's something i'm not sure whether you all know, but this is canadian thanksgiving today so i want to say happy thanksgiving [ cheers and applause >> seth: happy thanksgiving. >> and there's no way on canadian's thanksgiving to say something ungracious about our wonderful neighbor >> seth: i mean, yeah.

>> but what i will say about canada versus the united states is justin trudeau. >> seth: yeah. okay [ cheers and applause [ laughter ] >> that's my answer to any political question >> seth: that's your trump card. >> i don't know. that sounds like a sequel to me. >> seth: was it -- were there times, you know, i think this is a question of anybody writing fiction that takes place in washington, d.c. these days. was there time where, you know, truth has become so strange that it is hard to write a world that is any different or even harder to believe than what we're living through every day? >> yeah. you know, i think, you know, louise is just an extraordinary writer and creates characters and conceives plots that are so fascinating and draw you in. but truly what's been going on in washington i think beggars the imagination. it's hard to make it up. you know >> i think had we written this five, six years ago people would have said, no, this is insane, this is ridiculous >> yeah. >> now, actually, even in the course of writing it, it is

gone, essentially, from fiction to nonfiction. i mean, what hillary was talking about, frighteningly enough, a year and a half ago with me, when we were discussing it, is now coming true. >> yeah. you know, because, i've always said, look, we're going to get out of afghanistan at some point. and when we do, we got to remain vigilant because the terrorists are not going away and now in addition to the taliban and al qaeda, we now have this isis branch there. and they have not given up on attacking us, our friends and our allies so people had -- have to be aware of that and obviously our leaders and those who have to protect us have to pay attention. and we just have to be smart and try to think ahead about what they're trying to do and what they're going to aim at next in order to protect ourselves >> seth: i think it was may, hopefully, i'm right here, where you referred to afghanistan as a wicked problem >> yes >> seth: and basically you predicted that when we left this would happen

the taliban would take over. you know, i think everybody was caught off guard, maybe, by the speed it was going to happened but if it had happened in a week, if it had happened in six months, if it had happened in a year, it was going to happen do you think then putting aside how we left, do you think it was the right decision to leave? >> you know, it is really difficult to answer that because in the former administration, the united states government under trump made an agreement that actually trump's former national security adviser mcmaster said was a surrender agreement to get out by may 1st. so when the united states government tells an adversary we're leaving, and then the adversary goes, "oh great, let's get ready for them to leave. let's go to the village and talk to the head guy seth, the head guy and say, seth, bring home all of your soldiers or you guys are going to be wiped out. and let's use our money from the opium trade to, you know, buy favor and figure out how we're going to take over not just the countryside but go into the cities and particularly kabul. that's all in train.

and the deal that trump made with the taliban was, "okay, you are leaving. we won't kill americans because you're going to leave. and so when biden comes in he's, like, left with this totally fait accompli. and his decision has to be either get out in a responsible way, which was to push the deadline a little bit. or put in more troops because they're going to attack us and we have to protect ourselves it was an absolute, you know, hobson's choice. so, getting out was going to happen once the trump agreement was reached. how we get out, how we protect ourselves going forward, how we try to help those afghans who stood with us and were taking on enormous risk and i'm particularly focused on all the women who were in the government they were journalists. they were in business. they were in education and health care. those are the people that i hope we can continue to try to assist as we also protect ourselves so, it's complicated but, yeah it's something that once that

was decided was entrain. >> seth: i want to finish with one last question about the book your husband bill was here with james patterson. and he admitted that, you know, you were writing a book and that would be competitive about sales. [ laughter ] do you share this competitive nature >> oh, certainly not no [ laughter ] >> seth: i know it's impossible to ask louise on canadian thanksgiving she won't say anything >> she is so gracious. >> justin trudeau. [ laughter ] >> seth: we heard. >> i just wish everyone well >> seth: you wish everyone well. how very louise of you [ laughter ] i want to thank very much hillary rodham clinton and louise penny "a state of terror" is available now. [ cheers and applause we'll be right back with more "late night. we'll be right back with more "late night. ♪enge. tension builds... the plot twist

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♪ >> announcer: the audience is back at late night come join us live in studio. for tickets head over to latenightseth.com. for more late night, follow us on instagram, twitter and tiktok

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♪ [ cheers and applause i want to thank ron and clint howard, and hillary rodham clinton and louise penny i want to thank fred armisen and the 8g band. i want to thank the studio audience for coming! you passed stay safe, get vaccinated, we love you [ cheers and applause ♪ right now at 11:00,

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