tv Meet the Press NBC May 1, 2022 8:00am-9:00am PDT
the. >> mr. biden's request came after lloyd austen said they want to degrade the ability of russia to make war on other countries. >> explosions in a breakaway region likely caused by russia, and several war-related sites inside russia's birdior in range of ukrainian missiles. >> a nearly crippling embargo. after russia cull off oil. >> they will have to redebloi troops from the far east as reinforcements. we will joiner inmclaughlin,
with the speaker of the house, the congressional delegation visiting yesterday. i assume that ukraine's leadership has to feel the u.s. at least symbolically is with them, joined at the hip. >>inency pelosi arriving at ukraine, thanking them for their fight, telling the president, our commitment is to be there for you until the fight is done. her visit after two russian missiles struck the heart of the capital as the u.n. secretary general was visiting. this is the aftermath of the missile strikes. one struck that factory, believed to be the intended target. the other missile struck that apartment knowledge, killing one, injuring 10, the mayor of kyiv saying those strikes amount to the middle finger from russia to the west as well as to the
united nations. it is seen as a warning to anyone wanting to visit the capital, wanting to visit with volodymyr zelenskyy. it was only made public today. pelosi has been pushing for congress to pass the $33 billion aid package at the request of president biden. badly needed funds for this war, raging across the south and the east. the british saying they made gains, i have been speaks to a ukrainian resistance. all eyes on the southern beeged city, a rare glimmer of good new, 20 civilians evacuated from
that steel plant. president volodymyr zelenskyy saying there may be more evacuations today. >> when the head of the united nations was visiting on a supposed peace keeping mission. >> the senator melendez, welcome back to "meet the press." >> start with news this morning, out of the uk, their intelligence would seem to indicate that valdimir putin may -- may 9th, his celebration of world war ii victory day to declare war against the ukraine.
what should the u.s. response be to that declaration? putin has declared war, whether he did it officially or not is inconsequential. can russia, under putin erase the borders of europe, change a country by force, or will international order prevail? that is what is at stake, regardless of putin's declarations. >> he said something earlier this week, about our goals with russia we want to see russia weakened to the degree that can can't do what it has done with
ukraine. in response, they said the u.s. is fighting a proxy war, between the west and russia? >> i am not sure what was in secretary austen's mind, i think what he meant, if russia cannot defeat ukraine with a larger army, and greater weaponry, and much wanted military, it has to think about creating acts of aggression against any other country in europe or any place else. that is degrading russia's ability or thoughts about their ability to do so. i md think that is what the secretary meant. yes, we don't want to see russia go into mudolpha or a nato country, poland or any other
country. in that respect, i think that is what the secretary meant. >> how much we get involved if this expands into mulldova? >> i think that the ukrainians care what will happen, it is another attack point against ukraine. i don't think that will change our calculus about our direct engagement. we need to keep our eye on the ball. that is about helping ukraine and ukrainians ultimately be able to defeat the butcher of moscow. if we do that the world will be safer, the international order will be preserved, and others looking at what is happening in ukraine will have to think twice. this international response that president biden has lead, and the new effort by europe to have
an oil embargo, gas and oil embargo against russia, will be one of the most strategic blunders putin has made for his country and something bee have not seen in the past. >> 50 billion in total, locations, put the numbers together this appears to be the most money we spent on a war that we have not fired a shot n is there a limit in support that we will give you krau, fin this? as long as we think they can win this war, we will do what it takes? >> i think we will do what it takes to see ukraine win because it is not just about ukraine. it is about the international order. if ukraine didn't win, and if putin can ultimately succeed and be emboldened to go father, if
he strikes a country under nato, under our treaty obligations with nato, we would be directly engaged. stopping russia from getting to that point is critically of interest to us. as well as the world. so we don't have to send our sons and daughters into battle. that ability not to have to send our sons and daughters into battle is priceless. >> many officials answer the following officials say, it is up to ukraine. what do you believe is ukrainian victory look like to you >>. >> the reason people answer to you, chuck, it is ukraine to derm what it will or will not suspect to end the war. horrific war crimes putin has committed against the ukrainian people. it is hard to understand what
president volodymyr zelenskyy will accept. it can't be a way that blocks ukraine from sea ports, and having access to the sea, vital for commerce and national security. it is the horrific acts that putin has committed. the war crimes, that gives ukraine little room to think about what is peace here. >> quick questions about imgreg. many of your democratic colleagues are not happy with the decision to rescind title 42, what they believe is not an adequate enough plan. you would like to see title 42 ended, i know that at the same time, you questioned whether or not we have the resources and commitment to do this. what is the best way to handle this situation? what do you tell your democratic colleagues that want to keep title 42 in place for now?
>> i will tell you, who who wants to control the border, provision that allows countless numbers an individual can cross the border. there is no permanent adjudication of those who have a right and those who do not have a right, and have an order of deportation, if they try to come back, there is criminal penalties for it. that would stop it. there needs to be a comprehensive plan, the republican colleagues want the issue, not the solution. >> democrat of new jersey, foreign relations committee, picking up a lot of your to us. i appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective. >> turning to immigration,
republicans went after homeland security to end title 42. he was called on to resign, and even requested loyalty to the country. >> my constituents want you impeach, they believe you committed traeson. they believe you are a traitor. >> beyond that absurd grand standing, there are concerns, about record crossings. secretary, welcome back. please to be here. >> i am focused on the missing.
i don't speculate on the personal attacks, i have resolve, it is an important quality when one has important work to do on behalf of the country. >> we put up bhult points about it. surging at the border, transnational criminal organization. when i saw the six-point plan, this is what has been said about what the biden administration said they were going to do at the border for months. what is so new about this? i ask that because, if it is similar to what we have been doing, it sent working. >> the plan wasn't devised last week, when it was published. this is a plan that we have been working on since september of last year. we understood that the title 42
public health authority, the cdc, would want be around forever. we have been executing on this plan for months, and intensifying our efforts, we are adding resources to it to address the potential for an increase in migration, once title 42 comes to an end. that is what we do. it is a multifaceted plan. not only with respect to the infusion of additional resources to the border, the surge of personnel, the surge of transportation capabilities, medical support, increased facilities, it is working south of our border, with our partners, in the region. what we are experiencing in the united states is not unique to us. this is a regional challenge that requires a regional solution. do you know there is more than 1.8 million venezuelans in columia right now? this is something experienced
throughout the world as we see in europe. >> one of the potential tools you could have used, the third party agreements that trump administration negotiated. and make the case. go to guatemala first. is that a tool that would make your job easier? >> i don't think there would be many experts say see that is a safe third country. we have a migration from guatemala. some of the things that force people to leave their homes are resident in gaut malaspeaking with our counterparts in guatemala about those challenges. economic despair, violence, corruption, extreme weather events. i would take issue with.
>> should there be -- is there a way to ease the system? at the border? >> which is why and secretary blinken were in panama more than a week ago, why i was in costa rico. >> they are accelerating migration. >> we need countries to apply their laws, if somebody qualifies for relief in pan marx they should be able to remain in panama, under the laws of that country, if not, we need the country to repatriate those individuals, it is not our responsibility alone. title 42 is lifted on may 23rd. what does success for your plan
look like? >> success looks like the orderly implementation of our plan. where we are applying our laws, in accordance with their provisions, in a way that respects individuals' rights to claim asylum as the laws of congress provided allow. we are talking about individuals who are claiming fear of persecution in their countries of orgiven. our laws provide that they are allowed in immigration enforcement proceedings to make those claims in front of a judge. if they are not successful, they are promptly removed from the country. we are not talking about releasing individuals into the united states. what we are talking about is individual who is make claims for asylum and seek to those
claims in court. one of the great steps we have taken in the biden/harris, administration, we have sthp an asulumrecover rule to make the ultimate determination, we will take that six to eight year period over time, as we ramp up, to take it to under a year. fundamentally, chuck, we need congress to pass legislation. >> i understand that what have you said to the democratic senators, those running for re-election the plan of title 42, mark teley is one of them. the plan that you outlined is
unrealistic. share with individuals, with the public conduct of operations, they were concerned it wasn't enough. that we don't have a plan. we have had a plan for months, since fall of last year for the eventual end of title 42. what i did, i published a 20-page memorandum set forth greater details. i am not going to provide an extraordinarily comprehensive blue print of everything that we are doing. remember, we have an adversary, the cartels exploiting vulnerable immigrants for profit. i am not going to provide them a blue print for what we are doing. >> there is concern about this information, disinformation that you have in dhs. there is some people who look at
policing of speech. explain what the program is about? >> internal working group. i must say, commuted better what it is and what it isn't. it is a group best practices on how to do that work. the work of addressing disinformation that presents a threat to the security of our country. how to do that work in a way that does not infringe on free speech or civil liberties. this working group takes best practices and disseminates the best practice to the operators. >> the person you chose to head on it expressed too much politics on the feed? >> a recognized expert on battling the threat of
disinformation that presents a threat to the security of our homelapped. from russia from china, from iran, from the cartels. >> up next, the inside story of the kevin harvey tapes. the kevin harvey tapes. john than welcome to allstate. where everyone saves when they bundle their home and auto insurance. isn't that right, frank? i saved 25%. booyah. you protected your casa? sure did. and the frank tank? you know it. and now you're relaxing. i'm working from home. sure you are. alright i see a lot of head nods. let's circle back tomorrow. you weren't kidding. save up to 25% when you bundle home and auto with allstate. click or call for a quote today. can a company make the planet a better place? at walmart, we're pursuing 100% renewable energy in our operations. and aiming to protect millions of acres of land.
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(fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. welcome back. the new book "this will not pass" but "new york times" reporters jonathan martin and alexander burns has already received a lot of attention because of house republican leader kevin mccarthy's comments on president trump and republicans. in the past two years. we've seen a battle for survival of democracy that's erupted. they write, two parties not nearly adversaries but enemies in a domestic cold war that had started to run hot and one was enthralled to an authoritarian
demagogue than gracefully relinquish power. gentlemen, first of all, congratulations. heck of a book. ate up my saturday. that's for sure. let me start with, obviously, what we've seen on january 6th, and i want to start with a lindsey graham moment because i believed, jonathan, you were in the room for this. you happened to be, for the book, with the senators when they got quarantined on january 6th, so you were witness, essentially, to all these senators not happy with the situation that went on and you talk about the 25th amendment and lindsey graham. walk me through what happened. >> we were evacuated from the u.s. senate, the tunnels of the capitol complex to one of the senate office buildings, chuck, and there was uncertainty bordering on panic. you have members of the u.s. senate who are largely over the age of 50. in some cases, 60, walking
briskly or even running to this holding room. we were put in the holding room in one of the senate office buildings for hours and hours and hours and obviously tensions there arise because people don't know what's going on. there's images on their phone, their spouses are calling them or texting them and great uncertainty. in these hours, republican party is grappling with its future. what does this mean for our party, for our outgoing president, and is it so severe that we have to drive him from office before he is set to leave on january 20th and lindsey graham is extremely angry. he's almost shouting down capitol police as they try to address u.s. senators demanding they take action, forcefully recapture the capitol and in the same moment, he gets on the phone and he telephones the white house counsel. >> you're hearing all of this. firsthand account here. this is not from sources. >> i'm in the room, and he calls
and says if trump doesn't tell these people to go home, the rioters in the capitol, we'll call for the 25th amendment. so trump does a second and third take of the video. >> he's responding to the panic. >> yes. >> alexander burns, the mitch mcconnell, liz cheney exchanges that you have in the book are so telling about mitch mcconnell. here's one excerpt. found the whole list, a cardinal sin, relinquishing power. why to willingly jeopardize host by continually condemning trump, just ignore like i do, quite telling about mcconnell. >> certainly is, and about liz cheney too. the two of them have a conversation at one point last year where she basically tells him, that is just not going to work. you can't just sort of avert your gaze from donald trump. if you're going to take on donald trump, get rid of donald trump, you have to take on donald trump and get rid of donald trump.
so mcconnell's response at that point was, basically, i don't need any more lectures from you on how to deal with trump. the big mcconnell bet we outline in the book, a central part of the narrative is that after january 6th, he sees trump like many people, many democrats and more republicans than will say so in public, he sees trump as a threat to the american democracy and to the republican moment after most dire peril passes, he decides that the way he's going to try to deal with trump is to ignore him and trust that the president, as mcconnell said to a number of people, lose altitude over time, just because people will kind of move on and look to the future. and from where we stand today, that doesn't look like a wager that has particularly panned out. >> spent a lot of time on the right side of the aisle. let's go to the left side of the aisle, and the biden agenda. you outlined all the back and forth on build back better. in some of your report, in the summary of your reporting,
jonathan, who you would you say is to blame for the death? >> in our government, the president is not only the head of state and commander in chief, he's the leader of his or her party. joe biden is the leader of the democratic party. it's on him to corral the narrowest of congressional majorities. he did so in the opening months of his presidency, passing the american rescue plan, passing this sweeping bill for infrastructure, but he could not find the votes to get this bill passed. >> was there a deal to be done? >> joe manchin effectively killed the bill or put on hold in mid december. it's now may 1st. where has biden been since then? this is what democrats and congress are asking is, what's the plan and what's the strategy and there effectively is no game plan and there is no confidence in the white house that they can get manchin to any kind of a yes, and the clock is ticking. >> alex, you also note in the book that seems to be a more
serious effort to get joe manchin to switch parties. here's your excerpt from page 273. you don't have to join our caucus. become an independent and then caucus with us. johnny said if you were the leader, i would do it. not exactly a hard no. how would you describe this effort? is it ongoing? is it real? or is it a little bit of a dinner conversation? >> the republican party made it clear to joe manchin is offer is up on the table anytime he wants and basically any terms he wants to take it up. >> it was a real effort. >> it was a real effort and that comes right after the moment, right after joe biden and kamala harris take office, where the vice president goes on television in west virginia in what joe manchin takes as a not particularly subtle effort to twist his arm on the american rescue plan. he's upset about that. his republican friends like susan collins and jon thune say, exactly what you just outlined. manchin makes it clear to him that's not something he's interested in but this sort of
casts a shadow over all the democratic interactions with manchin over the last year and today is the sense that this guy has other options. it would be much easier for him politically in his home state if he didn't have the "d" next to his name. >> final topic i want to hit with you guys. so much to get to, but you brought up the vice president, alex. kamala harris felt disrespected. here's one anecdote you had. worried that the staff looked down on her. fixated on real and perceived snubs the way they found tedious, did not stand up the way they did for biden. the vice president took it as a sign of disrespect. what was astonishing here, apparently there was a meeting about this. >> the chief of staff to kamala harris telephoned the west wing and told a senior adviser in the west wing with biden that the vp has noticed this and she would like folks to stand, staff members to stand when she enters the room. this pulls back the, i think, curtain on what this white house is really like.
the tensions are deep and they are real with the vp's office in the west wing. obviously, the public image is what it is, but this is an ongoing challenge, and what is hovering over all of this, chuck, is 24. is biden going to run again and if not, is it vp harris? that's the mood over the entire democratic party right now as are biden's poll numbers. we have a story today on the "new york times" web site, this for the first time going to reveal a number of memos and polling memorandums and decks that show the course of biden's decline over 2021, and the urgent warnings that his pollster offered in the white house to stop that decline. >> alex, what's remarkable about it, the white house isn't blind to this, so they haven't reacted. >> that's right and one of the prevailing narratives about the white house, they didn't see inflation coming, they didn't see the immigration this persistent, a political headache. what we reveal in the book is the own chief pollster was warning early as april of 2021, the president's barely taken
office at that point and his pollsters already warning him, you've got to take this stuff seriously, and they just didn't. >> a deeply reported book, it is not anything like far left, far-right. it is just a good old fashioned reporting. kudos, guys. what a read. when we come back, so many agreed with mccarthy's thanks for coming. now when it comes to a financial plan this broker is your man. let's open your binders to page 188... uh carl, are there different planning options in here? options? plans we can build on our own, or with help from a financial consultant? like schwab does. uhhh... could we adjust our plan... ...yeah, like if we buy a new house? mmmm... and our son just started working. oh! do you offer a complimentary retirement plan for him? as in free? just like schwab. schwab! look forward to planning with schwab.
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welcome back. panelists here. helene cooper. nbc news senior capitol correspondent, garrett hawke and former senator claire mccaskill of new jersey. i'll let you fire away here. you covered congress. is there going to be fallout from what martin and burns reported? >> not the kevin mccarthy side of it. he seems to have weathered the storm on this. i was texting with the republican chief of staff after the tapes came out and "washington post" reported that trump was okay with it and then they were okay with it. they were happy to move on. the book reflects the private conversations people were having before january 6th, on that day
or around that day, are now coming to light but were discussed in the hallways for the last two years. >> steve hays, this anecdote, it is what we thought it was. about power. >> reading the book is an emotional experience for those who have been covering this for a long time because you see off the republicans are saying one thing behind the scenes and something totally different when the cameras go on. sometimes within minutes of those two statements. i guess i have a slightly different take. i think mccarthy is okay in the short-term but i think in the medium and long-term, this causes him trouble. he already had some moderates and movement conservatives who are frustrated that he was such a bad leader. now you have trump maga house republicans who are frustrated from the other side. i talked to a couple of republicans in the house this week who were frustrated they were being asked to defend. kevin mccarthy on this. it was a lie. he was caught in a lie. he's a bad liar. the thing i think that's
frustrating is they seem to be more frustrated that he's bad at lying than that he's lying. >> that's the fundamental issue is like, in so many ways, sort of the anecdotes in this book validates what we all already knew, which is very much that the republicans, you know, we saw that in 26, they didn't like trump then and then flipped. they had this inability to detach themselves publicly from somebody who they know is, they see him as a dollar sign, they see him as a vote magnet. at the end of the day, these people care far more about being reelected than they do about the country. it's like, that's what it comes down to, and this is what we're seeing on display. >> claire, what do you make of the manchin, again, another thing it is what we thought it was. >> yeah, i mean, first of all, there's a whole lot of people that could be blamed for the
size and scope of build back better. somebody got carried away at the white house and didn't realize the margins were so slim and that you have to count every vote on every piece. >> by the way, there's a great anecdote with andrew yang when he talks about, biden realized he was at a moment he didn't know what to do with the moment and somebody filled in the gaps. >> so as a result, america's kind of forgotten, the wonderful successes he had legislatively near the beginning of the term, something trump never managed and it's really too bad. i got to say, this book, and what it represents is sad to me and the reason it's sad is because the american people are so cynical and so angry at everybody in politics because they think they say one thing and closed doors, and then another publicly and they lie all the time. as it turns out, they have a reason to be cynical. >> i think the thing that emerges from the book is this total lack of leadership at the top of both parties. as you just mentioned, joe biden not leading in the crucial
moments, people are looking for guidance from joe biden. an anecdote in the story, enough to convict donald trump. kevin mccarthy says he's going to call on trump to resign, and then they don't do it. they don't do it. there's no leadership. >> garrett, it's like everything. you read this book and it seems like the only person that seems to have some leadership ability is the speaker of the house. >> well, and democrats may find themselves lost without her in the next term if she decides she's going to follow what she said and not seek another term in leadership. i mean, she has been consistent through 2018 through now, but she's had her own problems too. >> this book claims she doesn't want to be speaker, she's so tired of the left. >> that's probably true. always hard to be speaker of the house when the senate is controlled by the other party or your party, the idea to get 60. if i have to talk to another house democrat upset about the filibuster, she would like to move more. she can only do so much and
she's tired of holding off one side to keep everybody on the same, pulling in the same direction. >> helene cooper, the kamala harris, biden stuff, there's a part of it that i read and like, i could have transposed the words obama and biden and biden as harris and obama as looked down upon, some of this feels normal. >> every vice president, i mean we're talking about this earlier. every vice president feels as if they're given only the hard stuff. they don't have enough to do. they're not put forward enough by the principle. the kamala harris stuff, i mean, listening just now to your interview with j mart and with alex struck me as also, the idea of her coming out and saying, people should stand up, being upset people are not standing up when she enters the room. that sounds like, in a sad way, it sounds like a woman who doesn't feel confidence, this is
self-confidence issue that can get, when you start counting, when people start counting, it's not just women that do this, obviously, but when you start counting that sort of thing and taking note of things like that that might seem, that strikes me -- >> fellow journalists may worry about those little slights, get off twitter. what's your advice to her? >> i think she's trying to do everything she can in a job that by its nature minimalizes you. it was full of people making joe biden when he was vice president. i mean, unfairly, and a lot of what's happening to her is unfair but she, you know, she knows what she's doing and she's going to keep putting one foot in front of the other and i do think, however, there's no guarantee that she is the nominee of the party in '24. i think it could be a free-for-all. buckle up. >> another story that will fire up claire. up next, in the last two decades, number of rural
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results over the past few decades shows us a flashing warning sign for democrats as the nation's urban and rural divide has deepened. democrats have increasingly lost support from rural america. in 1996, then president clinton won a whopping 117 counts. basically won half of the nation's rural counties. but even though he had won a popular vote by 7 points nationwide. that's how the world counties he could win. the numbers shrunk again. won 194 counties. that's just 17% of the total that bill clinton won in 1996. and the latest nbc news polling shows you that the problem has not gone away. it's gotten worse. trust me, terry mcauliffe in virginia. the democrats have an advantage on the urban areas on the congressional ballot but as you move out geographically, the democratic numbers shrink and the republican numbers grow and
grow big time. 34 points right now. the number appears to be growing. for our current episode, i traveled to iowa and why the democratic party is hemorrhaging rural support. you feel simply having a "d" next to your name. representing clayton county in 2016. >> we had a picture taken when hillary clinton stopped by as all candidates do, and i fool heartedly in retrospect, but i posted it, i was a proud mom, on facebook and they used that, they cut my son out. >> you have a picture with hillary clinton. >> yep. >> and that's all they did. >> they ran it. >> you're a democrat. >> yes. >> clayton one of 31 counties carried by barack obama and donald trump. overwhelmingly rural, and home to roughly a quarter of all iowans. biden failed to win a single one of those counties back. >> there was no way biden was
going to win iowa in 2020. it was just not going to happen. >> chairs the clayton county democratic party. any version of joe biden? >> noun. it was not going to happen, as long as trump was on the thing. >> got annihilated in 2020. democrats did here in iowa in the state races. >> ruby bodeker ran and lost in 2020. >> i feel like an exhausted rural democrat. tired. i feel like there's a lot of weight on me. i honestly just want to be done a lot of days. i have four kids, a full-time job. i'm a single mom. i work. i don't even make $15 an hour and i am tired. >> our special report also has a story by my colleague how black rural voters feel abandoned by the democratic party and somewhat ignored. you can see the full "meet the press" episode wherever you get nbc news now or our web site,
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tuesday. the big one, of course, ohio. two more the following tuesday, may 10th. west virginia, nebraska, may be a small state but interesting republican primaries. may 17th is the big one as far as we're concerned. five primaries, including pennsylvania and north carolina and then of course, three primaries in the texas runoff on may 24th, oh, by the way, that's the georgia race. claire, we just did a whole thing. ohio is this tuesday so i want to focus on ohio. the rural problem for democrats in iowa, tim ryan's not going to have a shot if he's losing rural areas 80-20. >> yeah, we have to, if we're going to be a majority party, we have to win in places like democrats have to get some republican votes. and that's what people need to understand, because most countrt blue or bright red b places that make majority. these are so conflicting for democrats and here's why. we want the trump candidates to
win because they are least competitive against our democratic presumed nominees. but for the country, we don't want trump to succeed picking primary winners. it's the same push and pull. >> look at jd vance, campaigning with marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz. and steve hays, i've got to play a bite that matt gaetz said when he accidentally spoke the truth. take a listen. >> we don't want a circumstance where the establishment could claim they defeated trump so president trump's brand is on the line, the maga brand is on the line. >> like i said, he speaks an occasional truth. do you agree? >> it's interesting. donald trump obviously went all in for jd vance, did it late. this was a risk he took. it looks like it's working out early if these poll numbers over the last couple of weeks are telling us the truth. i think we'll know a lot more at the end of this month about exactly how powerful donald trump still is in the republican party and looks like mixed
results. jd vance looks good in ohio with a trump-supporting republican and georgia, much bigger problems where his endorsement hasn't seemed to help at all. >> all of these candidates have tried to beat the trump candidate so in that way he has already won. josh mandel wins that race in ohio. donald trump will probably still claim victory on wednesday morning as mandel sought to be a trump candidate. >> a convert. it's fitting that ted cruz behind mandel and stuck by because cruz is sort of a wannabe trumper and vance looks like he's converted. >> there's shades of this, but i think this is the case in all of these races, it's a similar dynamic with mccormick and oz too. he can claim victory regardless of who he endorses. >> do you know what the candidates are running on? they're not running on anything.
>> you could with so much, this isn't even funny. deep in ukraine and now deep in the primary. primary going on. >> what's interesting about vance is that he has actually, he's not been all in on ukraine. the southern border is more important than the war in ukraine. >> the vance thing i find so confounding. i mean, we all read the eulogy back in 2016 and i thought it was a beautiful piece of writing and it's hard for me to reconcile that person with who we're seeing right now. it's completely, i -- completely confounding. >> we started our conversation, claire, with mitch, you know, they say one thing and they do another in public. jd vance is a candidate of this. >> yeah, and there have been a lot of conversions to trump. are they permanent?
is this the permanent republican party much to the chagrin to my friends who want to talk about smaller government, lower taxes, free trade issues, those are all gone. all they are now is about grievance and anger and people who are mad, and want to screw the system. that's what it's about now for the republican party. the question is, is that a good long-term strategy to lead a nation like america? i don't think it is, but the voters will tell us. >> i think that's mostly right. the one place that sticks out though is ukraine and russia, right, because you haven't seen republicans move towards a, you know, pro-putin position, nato skepticism. sort of been, yeah, tucker carlson, and the people who have are the people in the primary. >> which is something, we all may have to reckon with if they actually get into power. thank you guys, that's all we have for today and thank you for watching. we'll be back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."
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