this sunday, mass shooting in buffalo. >> shots heard. >> ten people dead. nine of them african-american. what appears to be a racially motivated shooting. >> people in a supemarket shopping and bullets raining down on them. >> this was evil. straight up racially motivated hate crime. >> we get the latest from the scene. and i talk to buffalo mayor byron brown and new york's governor, kathy hochul.

plus, the economy and the midterm. >> right now, america is fighting on two fronts. at home, inflation. rising prices. >> with costs going up, outpacing wage growth. our brand-new nbc news poll shows flashing warning signs for democrats but republican leaders worry some of their candidates are too out of the mainstream. >> two men sleeping together. two men holding hands. two men caressing. that is not normal. >> independent senator bernie sanders of vermont. also, abortion politics. thousands march nationwide in favor of abortion rights. >> i can't believe we're going back to this. a tragedy. >> as many states move to restrict those rights in anticipation of a supreme court decision that overturns roe. joining me for insight and

analysis are, "washington post" white house bureau chief, ashley parker, washington bureau chief, susan page and "washington post" columnist, matt. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. well, it's happened again. a horror all too familiar in the united states. this time, the scene of what appears to have been an act of domestic terrorism was a supermarket in buffalo, new york. a white teenager, a boy, really. only 18. wearing body armor carrying an assault rifle opened up fire in an african-american neighborhood. nine of them black. and then two wounded, black. posted online, filled with racist and anti-semitic views,

including the theory that whites are being replaced by people of color. authorities say the gunman who drove some 200 miles carried out the slaughter. also live streamed the massacre with a camera apparently on his helmet. the latest in recent mass shootings aimed at ethnic groups. charleston, south carolina. african-americans in church. pittsburgh, pennsylvania. jewish victims in the synagogue. el paso, texas, latino victims in a walmart and now add buffalo, new york, to the list and of course seen a rise of hate crimes against asian americans as well. in a moment, i'll talk to buffalo's mayor byron brown and new york's governor, kathy hochul. we begin our coverage with nbc news correspondent emily, where are we on the investigation? i know the gunman was arraigned. what's next? >> reporter: hey there, chuck. investigators are looking into this as a hate crime and

racially motivated violent extremism, and there's a number of signs pointing and explaining why, one, 13 people were shot between the parking lot behind me and the supermarket. 11 of those were black. investigators are also looking into an apparent manifesto that claims that the suspect purposefully targeted this area of buffalo because of number of black people here. the other thing i'll point out, take a look at these images of what sources tell us are the suspect's weapons. they are blurred and that's because of messages of hate on them, racial slurs and the other thing we're mentioning more about this morning are the victims. these are people partaking in one of the most typical normal activities on a saturday afternoon. shopping in the supermarket. the governor telling me one of the people was simply trying to buy cupcakes for a birthday party. another person shot and killed was security guard. he tried to stop the suspect. here's more from officials on that. >> one of the individuals inside

the store is a security guard, a beloved security guard who's a retired buffalo police officer. a hero in our eyes. engaged the suspect, fired multiple shots. struck the suspect, but because he had heavily armed armored plating on, that bullet had no round. the suspect engaged our retired officer and he was ultimately shot and deceased at the scene. >> reporter: the suspect is being identified as 18-year-old payton gendren. if convicted with murder, he could face up to life in prison. we see him appear in court later this thursday. still very much a developing situation, chuck, but we expect later this morning to learn more information on both the victim and what led up and what happened and just absolutely horrific tragedy. this community shaken to the core, chuck. >> emily, thanks very much.

joining me now is the mayor of buffalo, byron brown. mayor, welcome to "meet the press." >> thank you very much, chuck. >> look, i know this is an excruciating time to be mayor and that the city's in a lot of pain here. what can you tell me about the latest in the investigation? all of it is still under apparently racially motivated, certainly seems like we get closer to drop the apparently. >> we are getting closer to dropping that. law enforcement has been working together around the clock since this occurred at every level, federal, state, county, city, and piece together very quickly that this was a racially motivated attack. the individual that committed this crime drove from several hours away. they were not from this community, and they drove here with the express purpose of

taking black lives. >> you know, mr. mayor, to sort of see this, we had the toxic stew of this growing right-wing ideology, easy access to guns and our permissive internet culture that sort of rewards sharing some of this violent ideas. where do we go first? how do we, how do you make african-americans in buffalo feel safe today? how about we start there. >> well, the thing that this tragedy shows us is that this can occur anywhere. it's not just buffalo. it's how to make people all across this country feel safe, it's not just african-americans, it's how to make people in urban america, suburban america, and rural america feel safe. the only way to do it is to

really get to the point of sensible gun control and n' this country. to end hate speech on the internet and social media. to stop the proliferation of hateful ideology. those are the ways that we make black people feel safe in buffalo, that we make people feel safe all across this country. >> you had been able to spend any time with victim's families? what have they been telling you? what would they like you to do? >> tremendous pain. victim's families just thinking about their loved ones. the precious lives that were lost senselessly. the hurt that they feel. the pain that they feel. and wanting to go on because their loved ones would want them

to go on. buffalo is a loving community. we are known nationally and internationally as the city of good neighbors. so we will, as a community, wrap our arms around the families of those we lost. we will continue to lift them up. we will continue to lift this community up. and we won't let an act of a hateful madman bring this community down and keep our community from moving forward. >> there's only so much you can do as mayor. you're going to need some help from the federal level here. what would you like to see from the federal government to make it your job easier to keep up? >> what we've seen in these mass shootings around the country year in and year out, month in and month out, and it's always

the same, people send their thoughts and their prayers. lawmakers in washington say that there's something that must be done, and then there are some on one side of the aisle that block anything from being done. it seems like there are those that believe owning a gun is more precious than the sanctity of human life. so i think people all across this country have to rise up. they have to speak more loudly and more clearly that there must be gun control in this country. this is a uniquely american phenomenon. these mass shootings don't happen in other countries across the world. we have to ask ourselves and

more than ask ourselves, we have to take action to stop it, to stop it after this buffalo, new york, incident, to make sure that other communities, that other families don't go through this again. >> sadly, mr. mayor, what you've been said to me has been said by a lot of mayors in moments like this and you just pointed it out and that's the wash, rinse, repeat cycle of washington not listening to the mayors on this is very frustrating. you know, i know there's not a lot more that can be done, i guess, other than rhetoric here. but is there something else you'd like to see done? >> well, i would like to see sensible gun control. i would like to see ending hate speech on the internet. on social media. it is not free speech.

it is not the american way. we are not a nation of haters. we are not a nation of hate. we need to send a message that there is no place on the internet for hate speech, for hate indoctrination, for spreading hate manifesto. i'd like to see real deliberate action taken on gun control and ending hate speech on the internet. i will be a stronger voice for that. i've heard from mayors all over the country in the aftermath of this incident. i've heard from mayors actually all across the world and i believe that what happened in buffalo, new york, yesterday is going to be a turning point. i think it's going to be different after this in terms of the energy and the activity that we see. >> mr. mayor, i hope you're

right. i hope you're right. we keep wondering, when is the incident going to be the one that finally shakes us out of this? mayor byron brown, buffalo, thank you so much, sir. >> thank you, chuck. >> joining me now is new york's governor, kathy hochul, who is also a buffalo native. governor, welcome to "meet the press" on what i know has been a pretty difficult 24 hours. let me just start. look, this is your hometown. i imagine the pain is immense no matter what. this is your hometown. tell me about it. >> it's gut-wrenching, chuck. this is my hometown. i've lived here my entire life. lived in the city a few minutes from here. worked in local politics here with tim, a teenager, these are my streets and it is shattering to the collective psyche that an individual is willing to come

and shatter the lives of so many well meaning people in the groets grois grocery shop. it hurts like hell. >> this is from the rising white supremacy, easy access to gun and a permissive culture on the internet and it all met together in this horrendous attack. where do you begin when it comes to figure out how we can tackle all of this? >> well, you're right. there's three components of this. the white supremacist terrorism. the radicalization that's occurring of our young people particularly who are vulnerable to these evil ideas. it's all induced by the internet. and the fact that platforms are willing to share this information, allow it to be posted, a manifesto that's been out there that describes in great detail how someone wants to have an execution of individuals in a community that's targeted because it's the highest black population within

a geographic area? that's all out there and also, the fact that this could be live streamed? how long was it live streamed before someone paid attention? these companies make a lot of money. they're very profitable, and in my judgment, they have the opportunity to be monitoring and shut things down before it gets to this situation, but also, it's about access to guns and in new york, we have the toughest gun laws in the nation but right now, we have a case before the supreme court that could be decided in a matter of weeks that could allow people to have a gun that's concealed to walk in the top behind me with a concealed weapon this time. we've got to deal with the access to guns coming from places like pennsylvania, a few minutes from where the accused lives, he could have gone over to pennsylvania and was able to enhance the gun he thought legally in new york and also to have an increase capacity magazine, exactly what we think he did as well as just the pervasive attitude this replacement theory that you're going to target blacks and immigrants and jews because

they're replacing the whites? it's a trifecta, a storm here and work vigilantly together to stop this now. >> let me ask on guns. a lot of people are going to scratch their heads and go, wow, an 18-year-old could legally buy most of these weapons and the answer is yes, isn't it? >> well, in many states, yes. the state of new york, what he was able to buy was an ar-15, but he was able to enhance the magazine capacity. you can't have that many rounds purchased legally here in the state of new york but go over to pennsylvania, go to a gun show. this is why when i became governor just a few months ago, i started a nine state gun interdiction task force because most used on the streets of new york and now on the streets of buffalo are coming from out of state. we need a national response. since my time in congress, we've been trying to get a national response and so individual states will do the best they

can, and i'm going to be posing more gun laws on tuesday to preschedule a press conference before this occurs but we need other states to step up and the federal government on our side. >> let's talk about holding these internet companies responsible. obviously, there's this law on the books to allow the internet to sort of escape liability on so many things that frankly, we as television broadcasters, cannot escape the same liability. do you think they should be held responsible for this, the easy spread of this propaganda? >> i hold them responsible for not monitoring and alerting law enforcement. that's the issue here. people are sharing these ideas, videos of other attacks and they're all copy cats. they want to be the next great white hope to inspire the next attack. we can't let that continue.

that's not happening in the basement of a kkk meeting anymore where you have a limited number of people who are succumbing to these evil influences. this is happening globally. they're looking at what happened in new zealand and what happened in pittsburgh and what happened in, they read this, they absorb this. this becomes part of their mentality and they share it with others through the internet. that's the responsibility of the internet and the individuals who are responsible are the ones who own these companies and i'm going to be talking to them directly. >> we also have tv commentators and some political figures that sort of appease this right-wing extremism. sort of, you know, anybody that pushes back, maybe they come after it on speech grounds, freedom of speech or things like this but certainly seems as if there is a growing virus on the right, the far-right here that is spreading dangerously. >> and they need to be held accountable as well. any government leader that does not condemn it and condemn it today is a coward and they're

also partially responsible. so let's just be real honest about the role of elected leaders and they need to be calling this out, not coddling the behavior saying it's just young people and their ideas. i'll stand and protect the first amendment any day of the week but you don't protect hate speech, incendiary speech, you're not allowed to scream fire in a crowded theatre. there's limitations on speech and right now, we've seen this run rampant and as a result, i have ten dead neighbors in this community. and it hurts. and we're going to do something about it. >> it really does hurt. governor kathy hochul, really appreciate you spending a few minutes with us. and just know, we're all thinking of everybody in buffalo. thank you. when we come back, not only was the horror in buffalo all too familiar, it is also the most recent example of a mass shooting inired by (vo) while you may not be a pediatric surgeon volunteering your topiary talents at a children's hospital —

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>> welcome back. panelists here. reverend al sharpton. bureau chief susan page. contributing columnist matt bai and ashley parker. we have a toxic stew here. white supremacy, ideology spreading. easy access to guns. permissive internet culture that almost encourages shares of these far-right ideologies. where do we start? >> we start by changing the tone nationally. we cannot just keep going through, as you said to mayor brown, you heard the mayor say this before in the government, federal government doesn't do anything. last night when i started getting calls from the chapter in buffalo of what happened, and then i started getting calls from government officials. first thing i said is, president biden needs to call a summit

meeting of black, jewish, asian leaders, and sit down and talk about the growing problem of hate crimes and that this government will not stand by and allow this to happen. we need to have a tone when young guys like this understand the federal government will come down on them. they're monitoring what's going on and they're not going to tolerate it. he should do this right away. i mean, we've gone from tree of life from charleston to now we're in buffalo. and we just are putting out regular press releases, rather than dealing with this with the urgency that it requires, and i reached out to jonathan and others and said, we ought to jointly go to the white house and deal with this because if it's not just black, it's jews, it's asians, lgbtq, it's everywhere. >> latinos. >> latinos, really latinos. the president needs to preside and say, this can't be

tolerated. >> al, on the far-right, there is this growing virus and not enough, it feels like not enough leaders on the right call it out. they sort of, there's an appeasement of it to be generous. >> listen, there used to be political parties. there used to be serious politicians who would step up and speak out against these kind of things. when david duke ran for office, they spoke out. party chairman, others did. it was well known he was an individual in his own part. and now to the country, people keep silent and that's silence is interpreted in ways that are. i'm frustrated in america thage there were massive demonstrations. thought there was going to be a move for social justice and very little has happened. when in florida, we had parkland

and then we had the mass shooting in a gay dancehall where a nephew of my wife was killed. there's some limited action. but when when you look at this, the frustration in america has to do with the fact horrific things are happening, governments are not doing anything and political leaders are not doing anything and that's what the calamity is. >> the other component of this is, of course, guns. the reverend is right that tone matters incredibly but then you look at how all of these hate crimes are committed, and they're all committed with guns and this is an area where congress has been able to do absolutely nothing. and then there will be, you saw people you were interviewing talking about sensible gun reform but you look at sandy hook, you look at kindergarteners massacred, mother emmanuel shooting in a church, what happened in las vegas, a country music concert. guns touched every aspect of

society and congress is able to do absolutely nothing. >> why do we keep having the same conversation we have before because there are things we could do. law enforcement could do more to surveil these toxic sites. social media companies do do more to bring them down. the news media could do more to cover them and lawmakers find some common ground on guns and americans could stand up and say, these shootings, these hate shootings do not reflect america. this is a radical fringe. americans need to stand up and say, we won't stand for this anymore. >> we've talked about this. i covered columbine back in the, when this was new. this is now part of the culture. it's a recurring thing. and ashley's right. congress has done absolutely nothing. but you know, to speak what reverend al was saying earlier, and we may disagree about this, i can disagree with a lot of people, i don't think this is a more hateful, more racist country than it was 25 years ago, certainly not 50 years ago.

i do think we have a segment ofa very extreme and dangerous segment of our political dialogue. and that is responsibility for that and culpability for that and it is tied to the violence. >> but matt, racism has gone from being fringe to mainstream. >> yeah. that's true. >> feels like a political organizing tool at times. >> normalized. you have to remember, this is an 18-year-old that is accusing in buffalo. when he was a 15, charlottesville happened. the president of the united states at that time said there are good people or fine people on both sides. this gives him comfort. that's why joe biden, who i believe is a decent and good man, needs to set a different tone and we need to deal with guns because the tone was set while this guy was a kid. being impressionable. that this is all right to be marching, saying jews will not

repraise me. and he saw it from the white house. >> there's something particularly devastating about the fact joe biden said he was impelled to run for president because of charlottesville. and it seems to me that was sincerely and look at what's happening and feels like nothing has changed. the culture is the exact same. >> it does seem, matt and susan, that every time there is an attempt to sort of deal with, particularly deal with domestic terrorism, this white supremacy issue. all of a sudden, there's a whole bunch of republicans in congress to start screaming speech. >> free speech is important. free speech is not a license to endorse things like replacement theory. this terrible, terrible theory that there's many of them jews trying to replace america with a black and brown nation to dilute the power of white people. that is un-american.

what elected official? >> inhumane. not just un-american but inhumane. >> i'm close to a free speech absolutist as you'll find and i really believe free speech is threatened in a lot of corners in society, but free speech demands leadership and when you have a society that is free, you also have to have a society with leaders who stand up for morality and for the right instincts and the culture. so that you don't take things that are on the margins of the society, as you say, and bring them into the mainstream and legitimize them. we have failed on that count and we continue to fail and these are the consequences. >> every day, it's every day. you know, immigration is a big deal to me. for immigrant children, babies to be blamed for formula shortage. i mean, come on. we're trying to find hate everywhere we can. >> absolutely right. and there are people on the right that are intentionally trying to create that divide on that issue. all right. when we come back, i'll talk to senator bernie sanders, a little bit about the midterm elections

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we're going to turn now to politics. it's a truism that voters' views about the direction. 16% say it's the right direction and 75% say the wrong track. the wrong track number has been 70 plus for seven months, which in the past signaled big losses for the governing party. against 56% disapprove. the president has now become as unpopular as donald trump in this poll. a warning sign for democrats. voters are split over what they want to control congress. 46-46. that sounds close but for what it's worth in gaining 63 top seeds. if there is anything approaching a silver lining for democrats, it's the issue of abortion. the leaked supreme court draft decision, 60% say it should be

legal and 37% say it should be illegal always or most of the time and abortion has become the top issue for people who will decide how to vote based on a single issue. yesterday i spoke to bernie sanders, the independent senator from vermont about what he thinks democrats can do to avoid a shellacking in november. let me start with what you know probably instinctively these days but our polls has found 75% of the country think we're headed in the wrong direction. in fact, just 28% of democrats right now think the country is headed in the right direction. where do you stand? do you think we're headed in the wrong direction? >> i sure do. look, what we're looking at is a nation today where the billionaire class, the people on top are doing phenomenally well, chuck. the middle class continues to decline. we're seeing increased ownersh

america, which has huge impacts for ordinary people. we've got three wall street firms, state street with access over $20 trillion controlling hundreds of corporations. you're seeing millions of people unable to afford the cost of prescription drugs and put gas in the tanks. how they would think what's going on is good but what i and other progressives are trying to do is to put together a movement that tells the billionaire class in this country whose profits are soaring, getting richer and richer, you know what, you can have it all. we need an economy working for the middle class, the middle class, the elderly, the children, not just the few on top. >> it's interesting when you talk about the movement. we see it in our own polling. there are more people that agree with sort of your mindset that you're framing, we need big

structural change but what do we do now before the elections? at the end of the day, you have the senate that you have, not the one that you want. what can get done now that can actually mitigate what looks like it's going to be a tough year for democrats? >> look. we passed early on in the biden administration one of the most significant pieces of legislation in modern history in this country, the american rescue plan, which in my view, did a whole lot to help people deal with the economic turmoil that we saw as a result of covid and massive unemployment. what we have got to do right now is, it's not hard. you listen to the american people and not wealthy campaign contributors. what does that mean? it means that right now, you lower the outrageous costs in this country. the pharmaceutical industry with paid lobbyists in washington, dc. you expand medicare. i happen to believe that

candidates that i support believe that health care is a human right, not a function of making huge profits for the insurance companies and the people who own them. you've got to move to expanding health care. you've got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. you've got to create millions of jobs by dealing with the existential threat of climate, and by the way, you've got to do what the american people want and understand it's women who have the right to control their own bodies, not the government. >> okay, everything you said there was being addressed in build back better. okay. wasn't it big as you wanted it, too big for some but why do we have nothing? that's the head scratcher here. understand, you don't have it all. why is it zero? why is there nothing? >> well, it should not be a head scratcher. you've got two members of the senate. senator manchin and senator sinema who sabotaged what the president has been fighting for. >> that's a strong word, sabotage. >> well, you help me out with a

better word here. 48 members of the senate who wanted to go forward with an agenda that helped working families that was prepared to take on the wealthy and the powerful. you've got a president who wanted to do that. you had two people who prevented us from doing that. you have a better word than sabotage? that's fine, but i think that's the right word and i think pressure has got to be put on the part of the people in west virginia, in arizona to say, you know what? why don't we stand up for ordinary americans and wealthy campaign contributors. why don't you have the guts to take on the trump companies and the insurance companies and the fossil fuel industries? >> i talked to pennsylvania democrats and they also blame senators manchin and sinema. they don't blame the republican. is that healthy for the party that all this concentration, should you have found something to do that isolates the republicans rather than you guys ended up dividing the party against yourself? >> i don't see it that way, chuck. i think on all of these issues,

we had zero republican support for the proposal in medicare, in build back better that were enormously popular. so certainly, not just manchin and sinema. they are two of the 50 democrats who went in the wrong direction, but every republican did. so the point is, it's not just manchin or sinema, you're right, it's every republican. the problem, i think, we've not done a good job in making that clear to the american people. >> let me ask you about the vote to codify roe this week. this is one of the votes that had 49 democrats, not 50. should the leadership have put a bill on the floor that would have gotten 52 votes including collins and murkowski to isolate the 48 republican nos? >> no, i mean, i think we'll see what happens. but to answer your question, i think nobody should think that this process is done. we should bring those bills up again and again and again.

i had a rally earlier on saturday in montpelier, vermont, my state capital. people cannot believe that you have a supreme court and republicans who are prepared to overturn 50 years of precedent. so i think what we should do is on this bill, end the filibuster, do everything that we can to get 50 votes on the strong as possible bill to protect a woman's right to control her own body. >> before this week about roe being overturned, you didn't use the abortion issue as a reason not to support people. you supported pro-life progressives, if they were progressive on economic issues. a mayor of omaha, i recall a race like that. has your mind changed? i understand that. but has your philosophy changed? is that a litmus test for you for progressives? >> this particular moment when literally a woman's right to choose is at stake that we have

too many democrats who are prepared to support a candidate in texas who is one of the few anti-pro choice members. >> speaking of henry? you think that's going to stay? >> i do. and i'm supporting jessica, supporting in pennsylvania, i hope she wins as well. >> you think at this point, being pro-life, you can't be in the democratic party or the democratic coalition? are you ready to go? >> we will see. all i can say is i think you have the overwhelming majority of people to consider themselves to be democrats to be pro-choice. i have been pro-choice my entire life and the candidates that i am supporting now are all pro-choice. a woman's right to control her own body is really on the line, and we have got to do everything we can to defend that right. >> last question, are you definitely going to rule out ever being a presidential

candidate again or if there's an open race in 2024? >> why did i think you might ask that question? >> wrote it -- >> look, no, no politician i know rules out all options. everything is on the table, but right now, my focus is to do everything i can to elect candidates to congress who will stand up and fight for working families in this coming midterm election. >> fair enough. senator bernie sanders from vermont. always a pleasure, sir. thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective. >> thank you. up next, something truly extraordinary for television. what might happen in china, move to seize taiwan this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan

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welcome back. in our final episode of this season's "meet the press" report, we put together a remarkable war games simulation how the u.s. might react if china invaded taiwan. the national security think tank center for new american security or cnaf convened two teams. blue team representing the united states and the red team

representing china. which side would prevail? would china attack the u.s. mainland, could nuclear war break out? the conflict takes place in 2027. there are three rounds of strategy. and i spoke to the game master after each round to see where the conflict stood. here's a look. >> as you can see here on the map is a very large concentration of chinese people liberation army forces at potential ports of an invasion. >> we want to focus on a last ditch effort to deter. this is the time to be sending the strongest possible message to beijing both privately and publicly that there will be very severe costs. china is sort of seeing our reaction to ukraine and we want to make sure that we're surprising them with how we react here. >> hit the americans as hard as we possibly can in the specific to keep them out of the fight while we move on taiwan.

>> i would support in gamm. >> the priority for the first 24 hours is to go as fast as possible to taipei. i think it matters to deter united states, japan, australia, the countries from intervening. >> stacy, high level here. what just happened with mo one? >> china has invaded taiwan. it began by attacking taiwan's outlying islands near the mainland and then followed it with a large air and missile strike on taiwan. and on u.s. bases in japan. and on u.s. bases in guam and the northern mariannas. in response to that, the united states followed up with bomber attacks on chinese ships, and port. and there was an air battle over taiwan where american aircraft flying from the philippines came in and engaged in combat with chinese aircraft that were trying to bomb taiwan. >> after move one, can you assess which team is winning?

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welcome back. before events of 24 hours ago, we were going to be a pre-stake lead-in to the midterms. big primary day on tuesday. reverend sharpton, our poll, it's interesting. you heard the interview with senator sanders. how do you fire up the left? in an environment like this for the democratic party. >> you've got to turn people on to turn them out. i think the issue of the left that the african-american or black community, latinos and all are concerned about are not really the issue that they can say that we've had deliverables on. george floyd justice and policing act. john lewis voting bill. i think the president needs to do some executive orders. i think that we need to start seeing some aggressive fighting in the trenches on a lot of these issues. all of this trying to be moderate in tone and style as you are in politics is not going to work. >> should buffalo galvanize this

even more? >> buffalo and women's right to choose put in the right context because when people need to understand is that if the supreme court in fact back to mississippi, this decision, they're saying that roe v. wade no longer protects you, we're going back to stage right. if you start talking about stage right, that means something else to me as a black -- wait a minute, going back to stage right? lgbtq, going back to stage? this could galvanize everyone but put in the context that this is a state's right decision. they could decide lgbtq rights, voting rights, blacks, they can galvanize if the democrats come forward and galvanize. >> al, our poll, it is still advantage republicans. you can see it in the polls. but wow, has the abortion decision suddenly given life to the democratic coalition. you can see that if it indeed

happens, it might level or get closer to leveling the playing field. >> yeah, i think a question i ask myself is that gender equal, you know, the abortion issue, is it age driven? is it a top issue for some people? especially those over 50. having said all of that, there's so much passion out there on the left that it should count for something, especially turnout. may i add, maybe out of a box but how shocked i am with the primaries in ohio and pennsylvania as national, i mean, these are two states seeking to replace robportman and pat toomey. >> very conventional republicans. >> and you know, here i am watching these two primaries that are about to develop, i'm saying, how did ohio and pennsylvania kind of change so radically in like four years? >> not only that, remember when pat toomey was not a

conventional republican. >> the democrats on the other hand, showed a steady hand. tim ryan and what's coming up in the primaries, but the republicans have made a total turnaround. >> here's what's fascinating, ashley and susan. we try to figure out if donald trump's endorsement matters. we'll see. trumpism is dominating these primaries and it's actually hurting dr. oz. i think the former president picked the wrong trump candidate. >> there's also a world where you're right, maga in certain ways, has become bigger than former president trump. and, you know, i think that's what you see with the late surge from kathy barnett in pennsylvania and even if youhed there were moments when trumpen the promise of the deal maker people hoped and his far-right base, what folks said on fox news and all of those moments, he always retreated to the far-right base because there's a part of him that lives a little

bit in fear of them. he absolutely needs them but worries about them. >> trump in this pennsylvania primary, whether his endorsed candidate wins or one of the other two, all bunched together. >> they have not run away from him. like pat mccrory running against trumpism in north carolina. you're not seeing that here. >> the party, 55% of republicans told you in your poll that they want him to be the face of the republican party. this after all this happened is lost in the last election. but his statement against the candidates on the surge in pennsylvania said she can't win in the general, but by the way, if she does, i'm all for her. >> to go back to what we were talking about earlier in the last segment, the ideology preexisted trump. trump didn't event maga or magaism dominating the party. he unleashed it and i think to an extent, some of the primaries

focus too much on ideology. to the extent we know what's going on in the electorate, a lot of it, the era of personality. it's persona. when you look at kathy barnett. >> i was going to say, kathy barnett and john, not your cookie cutter politicians. >> no, you story and persona matters a lot. dr. oz, only there as legitimate as he is, because he's a tv star. this, as much as the ideology that trump unleashed, it is this cult of personality in our politics over party, over ideology, any other affiliation that he represents and that will long outlive him. >> this is the problem. big personalities win elections. big personalities have trouble governing once they win office. >> donald trump. governing. i mean, you wouldn't put trump and governing in the same sentence but the fact is, he's not only a big personality, he became a big personality for feelings that were already there. he tapped into what was there and he became the representation

of that. so a lot of people that felt that way and act as uncouth as he acts felt like, hey, i've got a shot because not only does he speak to what i want, he is who i am. >> ashley, ultra maga. this was, this ultra maga messaging by team biden. >> believe it or not, six months of research. by liberal groups, tried to add on maga with his own flair but republicans and trump are reappropriated, they're proud to be maga, ultra maga. >> that's going to change the outcome of the elections. thank you all for doing this. it's a tough show. these are tough issues. once again, we're all dealing with but we need to deal with. that's all we have for today. keep our friends in buffalo in your thoughts today. by the way, i'll see in 2022 a little bit.

congratulations, remember if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

on the road to win another one day. stack the wins. giddyap on 3. 1-2-3. >> giddyap. >> this is the most. >> what a defensive stand. >> he is running defense eye we wake up. >> what a ball. ♪♪