tv 60 Minutes CBS November 10, 2019 7:00pm-7:59pm PST
captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. >> the story of jamie dimon is the story of modern wall street. >> we move $6 trillion of money every day. >> he sits atop the country's largest bank, but has never sat down with "60 minutes" until tonight. >> this is the most prosperous economy the world has ever seen and it's going to be a very prosperous economy for the next 100 years. >> should executive pay in this country be curbed? >> what does that mean? >> cut back. we asked the c.e.o. of j.p. morgan chase about income disparity, a surprising investment, and presidential politics. did you ever think of running for president? >> i thought about thinking about it.
>> you thought about thinking about it. >> i talked to one person, and i decided to think no more. ( ticking ) >> few countries are more dangerous for reporters than the philippines. and many say the president, rodrigo duterte, is to blame. >> have you been threatened with violence? >> yes. >> have you been threatened with death? >> yes. >> has the violence been described to you? >> yeah, blow my head off, or bury me alive. >> they are... they're just made up. >> the president and his rhetoric bear no responsibility? >> no, because people in this country know this president. he's a teaser. >> a teaser? >> yeah, he teases people. ( ticking ) >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bill whitaker. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm norah o'donnell. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories and more, tonight, on "60 minutes." ( ticking ) not even our competitor's best battery
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>> stahl: the story of jamie dimon is the story of modern wall street. he sits atop the country's largest bank, as c.e.o. and chairman of j.p. morgan chase. he oversees more than $2 trillion in assets and a quarter million employees from manhattan to mumbai. he was there when banking went from button-down and by-the-book to flashy and too-big-to-fail, through the 2008 financial crisis, and into today's era of even bigger banks.
and now, presidents, prime ministers, princes and sheiks seek his counsel. so who better to ask about president trump's tariffs and trade war, the income gap, and the recent criticisms of him by democratic presidential candidate elizabeth warren. so elizabeth warren said in iowa the other day, "our democracy has been hijacked by the rich and powerful," and you jumped in and said this week about her that she was "vilifying successful people and having harsh words for wall street bankers." >> jamie dimon: what i was commenting on is that anything that vilifies people, i just don't like. i think, you know, most people are good, not all of them. i think you should vilify nazis, but you shouldn't vilify people who worked hard to accomh it'smerican society,rest is wore wealthy and well-connected, and
jamie dimon"-- she brings you up-- "doesn't want that to change." >> dimon: i'm not going to comment on anyone in particular. >> stahl: but she's commenting on you. you've become a target. whether you want to respond to it or not, you're her target and you're alexandria ocasio- cortez's target. >> dimon: i understand that a person in this seat is going to be a target in this day and age of certain politicians and stuff like that. but the notion that i'm not a patriot or that some of these other folks aren't pat-- that's just dead wrong. so-- you know, my view is let's all working together. and i don't mind if i-- a few barbs are thrown my way by anybody. >> stahl: you're tough. >> dimon: i'm not that tough, but i don't-- there's nothing i can do about it. >> stahl: the stock market is going through the roof, and yet manufacturing production is down over the past year. wage growth is slowing. so, when you look at the state of the economy right now, what do you see? do you see strength? do you see petering out? >> dimon: the consumer, which is 70% of the u.s. economy, is quite strong. confidence is very high.
their balance sheets are in great shape. and you see that the strength of the american consumer is driving the american economy and the global economy. and while business slowed down, my current view is that, no, it just was a slowdown, not a petering out. >> stahl: you sound pretty optimistic about the economy. >> dimon: yeah, well, i am. >> stahl: well what about the issue of unpredictability right now on the economy? is that worrisome to you? it must be worrisome to every businessman in the country. >> dimon: the world is unpredictable. i think it's a mistake-- >> stahl: well, more unpredictable than usual. >> dimon: no. if you look at history, if you take a newspaper and open it at any month of any year, you'd have the same list of hugely unpredictable things. >> stahl: why doesn't it feel that way? why does it feel as if we were in a particularly uncertain time? >> dimonma ndeacts the short run. but again, there've been like 50 or 60 internati only one really affected the global economy in the short run.
>> stahl: what was that? vietnam? >> dimon: that would be-- no. vietnam did not. vietnam obviously totally changed america. but it was the oil crisis in the middle east in 1973 when oil went from 2 to 20 and we had a global recession. there've been wars with india and pakistan, we got iraq, afghanistan, korea, vietnam, china had wars with vietnam, china had wars with russia. none of those things affected the global economy. and the other thing is, people look at the negatives. there are positives. the berlin wall went up, the berlin wall came down. so... >> stahl: and the economy wasn't affected, is that what you're saying? >> dimon: barely. this is the most prosperous economy the world has ever seen and it's going to be a very prosperous economy for the next 100 ye >> stahl: dimon's even unfazed by the trade war and president trump's imposition of tariffs on china. >> dimon: i've been in chi and the chinese will say, he brought us to the table. >> stahl: you know, the tariffs, it's like a bomb that you detonate and the problem is it falls on you.
the bomb falls on them, but the bomb falls on you. >> dimon: the risk of tariffs was that-- that it ends up being more a trade war as opposed to a quietly negotiated thing. it has to be resolved. this is not going to war, okay, this is trade and economics and resolution would be a good thing. and so i hope that takes place. >> stahl: china is the far eastern frontier of dimon's global financial empire that he oversees from his office at j.p. morgan chase's headquarters in new york city. this is vast. this is the heart of the bank's empire. little trading is done on the floor of the new york stock exchange these days. traders mostly buy and sell over computers on their own trading floors. this is one of several at j.p. morgan chase. >> dimon: this is one of six trading floors in the building. there's like 450 people in this trading floor. an equivalent to this in london, half of this in hong kong, and in 23 other countries around the world. >> stahl: j.p. morgan chase moves more money in a day than most countries earn in a year.
>> dimon: we move $6 trillion of money every day. >> stahl: every day? >> dimon: every day. we deal with, like, 10,000 clients. which include governments, central banks, mutual funds. >> stahl: and wealthy individuals, including about half the world's known billionaires. an exclusive club that jamie dimon himself belongs to. he was born in queens, new york, the grandson of a greek immigrant who did well enough to become a stock broker. dimon's dad became one too, so, it was in the family. after harvard business school, he went straight to wall street where he climbed quickly and helped usher in the age of the mega-banks, earning a reputation as a ruthless cost-cutter. he became c.e.o. of j.p. morgan chase in 2006, when profits were soaring on wall street and the financial crisis was brewing.
in the early days of the crisis in 2008, dimon got a phone call from the head of one of the largest investment banks on wall street at the time, bear stearns, which was teetering on the verge of collapse. >> dimon: the c.e.o. of bear stearns called me up and said, "can you lend me $29 billion before the night's out? because if i don't get it, i'm going to go bankrupt." and i said--i said, "even-- even i can't get-- ( laughs ) $29 billion." >> stahl: but then the treasury secretary hank paulson leaned on him to buy bear stearns. >> dimon: and hank paulson said, "you gotta buy it, you gotta buy it, you gotta buy it." and i said, "if i can responsibly do it," i said, "can't jeopardize my own company, we'll do it." >> stahl: three days later, he did it. he bought bear stearns for $1.2 billion. >> dimon: we thought we saved the system. you know, we thought that that would've been the domino that would've caused the whole system to go down. and it was because j.p. morgan was strong that we could do it. >> stahl: did they--
>> dimon: as i pointed out in congress, it wasn't like buying a house. that was buying a house on fire. >> stahl: but it was banks and other financial institutions that started the fire, by bundling trillions of dollars worth of risky mortgages, and selling them, knowing in many cases that they were toxic, to investors around the world. this eventually led to the financial crisis that nearly brought down the global economy. looking back, do you think that there were some bankers who were outright immoral and unethical, they knew exactly what they were doing? >> dimon: i believe there are people, i'm not going to use the names, who were greedy, selfish, did the wrong stuff, overpaid themselves, and couldn't give a damn, yes. >> stahl: greedy, reckless. were you? >> dimon: no. >> stahl: do you take any responsibility for the financial crisis? >> dimon: no. >> stahl: in 2008? but your bank sold those same kind of mortgages. >> dimon: we-- we-- we-- yeah, okay, i-- >> stahl: toxic mortgages. >> dimon: i do take some. we participated-- so did
mortgage brokers, fannie mae, freddie mac, the government, government policy. but, yes, we did. and it was a huge error. and it was hugely damaging. >> stahl: the banks were bailed out, and the little guy, whose mortgages crashed, lost his or her home. many families were destitute. and that unfairness has just really hurt the sense that this country's working correctly. >> dimon: i totally agree that, you know, if you're the average american, you would be angry at what happened. there was no old testament justice. too many people , you know, a lot of people lost their reputation and money, but too many people didn't and you know, the small guy got hurt. so i completely agree with that. >> stahl: i mean, the idea that the banks were bailed out and they caused the problem, to begin with. i mean, the sense of unfairness doesn't begin to explain the fury. >> dimon: i would feel the same way. >> stahl: you're agreeing with that. >> dimon: i'm agreeing with that. i think we let the american people down. but also at the same time, because we were strong, we
brought bear stearns, we saved , you know, 15,000 or 20,000 jobs. and so there's two sides to that story too, a little bit. and only one has been told well. >> stahl: let's talk about the wage gap in this country between the rich and almost everybody else. how much of a problem do you see that? >> dimon: i think it's a huge problem, and i think the wealthy have been getting wealthier too much, in many ways. so middle class incomes have been kind of flat for maybe 15 years or so. and that's not particularly good in america. but in particular, at the low end, 40% of americans make $15 an hour or less. they've particularly been left behind. >> stahl: you're talking about people who earn very little money. listen to this statistic. compensation for executives, c.e.o.s, grew 940%-- 940%, in the last 40 years. your average worker, so middle class, middle class, grew 12%. >> dimon: we haven't done a good job growing our economy.and ld t problem. >> stahl: executive pay. last year you were paid $31 million. too high?
>> dimon: the board sets mine. i have nothing to do with it. >> stahl: well, you could return some of it. >> dimon: i could. is that going to solve any of those problems? >> stahl: i don't know. >> dimon: is it going to solve any of those problems? >> stahl: no, but you could set an example and say, "i'm not going to take all that money. i don't need it." >> dimon: i could. i'm going to leave it to the board to set my comp. not you, not the press-- >> stahl: you've answered every one of my questions, but this one you're fobbing off. >> dimon: yeah, the board has to do it. >> stahl: well, let me ask it in a general way. should executive pay in this country be curbed? >> dimon: what does that mean? >> stahl: cut back. should there be a way to say, "we're not going to have such a spread between our workers and the guy at the top?" >> dimon: you know, when you say something like that, you got to say, "how are we going to do it? what does it make sense?" i think you use the tax system to do that. i would not have cut the tax on the rich. i would've extended the earned income tax credit instead, which is like a negative income tax credit for lower-paid people. we probably should change the
minimum wage, which i don't think has been changed for like 10 or 15 years. there are solutions to these problems. the problems are real. it does not mean free enterprise is bad. >> stahl: free enterprise has been very good for jamie dimon, and the bank. last year, j.p. morgan chase earned $32 billion in profits. ( cheers ) one of the things he does as c.e.o. is hold regular town hall meetings with employees-- like this one in delaware-- to build a sense of team spirit. >> hello, everybody. >> stahl: it struck us, though, as less like a bankers convention than a political rally. ( cheers ) which led us to ask-- did you ever think of running for president? >> dimon: i thought about thinking about it. >> stahl: you thought about thinking about it? >> dimon: i talked to one person, and i decided to think no more. >> stahl: i'm asking you because we came upon a quote of yours. you said, "i think i could beat trump. i'm as tough as he is." >> i'm as tough as he is, i'm smarter than he is.
and by the way, this wealthy new yorker actually earned his money. ( laughter ) it wasn't a gift from daddy. >> stahl: president trump responded in a tweet about dimon. "he doesn't have the aptitude or 'smarts' and is a poor public speaker and nervous mess." >> dimon: and i've seen him after that, and y-- and i walked in the oval office and he said, "so you would love to have this office, wouldn't you?" ( laughs ) and i said-- ( laughs ) "not really." >> stahl: in his office, dimon's known as the great survivor. in a career that spans nearly 40 years, he's managed to navigate his way through just about every panic, boom and bust. you're the only c.e.o. who was running the big bank back during the financial crisis who's still there. you're the survivor, last man standing. >> dimon: it's a dangerous place to be. >> stahl: talking about survivor, you did have cancer. tell us about that. how did you discover it? it must've been terrifying.
>> dimon: yeah, actually, i was shaving, i felt a little lump here. and i went to see my doctor and he felt it and said, "you have throat cancer." and when some-- when someone says to you, "you have cancer," it is-- i mean, it's almost un-- unimaginable, like-- a punch in the face, and a fear and... of course, but the hardest part, honestly, was telling my family. i just didn't know how to do it. i said, "i am going to tell you something, but i'm going to be okay." and they-- and the second i said it, it was mayhem. you know, and the thought that i couldn't tell my parents, so i had my wife call. i just couldn't tell them that their son may die before them. >> stahl: oh, my god. >> dimon: and so you-- you're going through all this stuff, and-- so- >> stahl: and you're clean. >> dimon: i'm-- i'm on my fifth year, so that's- >> stahl: that's it. that's what they say. >> stahl: did you ever say, "i should resign"? >> dimon: no, i love what i do. >> stahl: one of the things he's doing is making new kinds of investments.
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>> stahl: jamie dimon, the c.e.o. of j.p. morgan chase, is testing out a new kind of business investment in the city of detroit. the idea grew out of dimon's interest in changing the way the bank was engaging in philanthropy. he wanted to try and tackle a major national issue like urban poverty by applying the same kind of expertise and analytics to the problem that the bank uses to advise big corporations. his first target, he said, would be the city of detroit-- just after it filed for bankruptcy. >> dimon: so detroit is probably one of the biggest failures of
an american city that we've ever seen. my view is, why can't we make detroit an example of america's exceptionalism? have people roll up their sleeves, get together and change the tide of history, right there, right now? >> stahl: so, in 2014, jamie dimon picked up the phone and called the then-new mayor of detroit, mike duggan. >> mayor mike duggan: my assistant came in and said, "jamie dimon's on the phone." and i said, "that's an amazing coincidence. that's the same name as the president of the biggest bank in america." she said, "i think it is the j.p. morgan jamie dimon." ( laughs ) i didn't have any idea jamie dimon knew who i was. so i picked up the phone, i recognized-- >> stahl: he cold-called? >> duggan: cold-called. i just-- no-- no warning. >>hl: for mayor dugganthf t. as his victory just months before. he won, surprisingly, as a write-in candidate, becoming the first white mayor of detroit in 40 years, in a city that's nearly 80% black.
describe detroit when you came in as mayor. >> duggan: half the streetlights in the city were out. how do you get streetlights fixed? a third of the buses were in the garage, broken down. people were standing on street corners for hours waiting for a bus. there were only eight working ambulances in the entire city. there were times you could wait an hour when you dialed 911. and, between 2000 and 2013, 250,000 people left the city of detroit. i mean, that's more than the entire population of the city of buffalo. so if you can imagine everybody in buffalo leaving in 13 years and leaving all the buildings behind and empty? that's what detroit experienced leading up to bankruptcy. >> stahl: thwhat large parts of detroit looked like: $100illion.t war zone. not a lot of money for the bank,
or detroit, but he knew that j.p. morgan had something in a way more valuable. >> dimon: so it's not the money, and this is a very important thing. it was about the help, the advice, the consulting, the ideas, the human capital. >> stahl: and it was about the data that the bank collects and crunches every day, more information about business and consumers than the government collects. >> dimon: we use big data and artificial intelligence in running our businesses around the world for risk and credit and marketing. so here, we actually have huge data, too, about how people spend their money. >> stahl: where their credit cards are showing up. >> dimon: we can actually see where people spend money on credit and debit cards and checks, and where they're spending, like at restaurants, et cetera. that one piece of data creates where you can open a store, where you can do something different. >> stahl: dimon had the analysts build a database just for detroit. >> dimon: so we know, in a certain part of town, that you're traveling 20 minutes to buy milk, or 20 minutes to go to a restaurant, which means that a store could be ten minutes away. >> stahl: to help the young entrepreneur, who wants to open a restaurant.
and you're telling him the best place to do it. >> dimon: to help where you open a restaurant, where you put affordable housing. >> stahl: the first order of business was affordable housing. other investors like the owners of quicken loans and little ceasar's pizza, were already pouring money into the redevelopment of downtown. so the mayor asked dimon to concentrate on the blighted neighborhoods that the bank's data identified as ripe for redevelopment-- neighborhoods like this one in detroit's north end. so this is typical, huh? >> sonya mays: yeah, this is a really good example of the challenges that the detroit neighborhoods are facing. >> stahl: sonya mays runs a non-profit housing development company. she's a lawyer, former investment banker and detroit native. with more than $4 million from j.p. morgan chase, she acquired 30 abandoned homes and vacant lots, so she could work on revitalizing the whole neighborhood at the same time. >> mays: this is a big,
significant investment that is really meant to kick-start other investors, home owners, residents coming into this neighborhood. i mean, look at this. this is not going to pull anybody here. you have to figure out how to deal with stuff like that. you really do have to attack everything that is blighted, that's potentially going to drive down property values. >> stahl: so you have to do the whole street? >> mays: you have to do it block by block. >> stahl: she's benefiting from j.p. morgan's special program of steering funds to minority businesses that wouldn't otherwise qualify for them. if you didn't have the j.p. morgan special program, you wouldn't have gotten the funds? >> mays: we talked to a lot of other people. ( laughs ) >> stahl: not just you, jamie? >> mays: yeah, and the answer-- the answer to that is, unlikely. the answer to that is, the best we probably could've done, but for this program and this investment is, do a house, finish a house, sell a house. go to the next house, do a house. and at that rate, i-- i did this
math at some point. at that rate, like it-- you know, it'd take like, you know, a couple centuries. >> stahl: tell us about this. this house is one of several sonya mays has finished. oh, wow! her work in this neighborhood has been so successful, she's expanding it to other parts of detroit. didn't you find, jamie, that there was kind of a racial bias against giving loans? >> dimon: sure. >> stahl: to blacks and other minorities? >> dimon: yeah. i think that's true in poor neighborhoods. >> stahl: but if you find out that somebody like sonya, not necessarily her, you give her a loan you wouldn't have before, but they're paying it back. are you beginning to think that what you now consider risky, has that changed? in your mind, should it change everywhere? >> dimon: are there things that we could have been doing anyway in normal banking that would've helped in these communities? the answer is probably.
>> stahl: actually, he is studying that, by partnering with local non-profit groups like the kellogg foundation and creating an "entrepreneurs of color fund" that's an experiment on that very issue of loans to minority businesses. >> dimon: we started small, 40 loans. they're all paying back. >> stahl: but those were loans that you would not have ordinarily made. >> dimon: no, no. >> stahl: so you changed the criterion for giving credit to someone-- >> dimon: yes. so, this is nontraditional banking. i call it kind of venture banking. so look beyond what you do normally. take a little bit of extra risk. give them more help. >> stahl: the loans have gone to open a wine shop, a health club, a restaurant. in all, j.p. morgan chase has helped more than 5,000 businesses here. >> dimon: just writing a check doesn't really work very well. >> stahl: dimon has also assembled teams of experts from the bank who spend weeks at a time living and working in the city and providing a lot of tical advice. >> dimon: very often, these entrepreneurs, they needed help in, how do you sign a lease?
how do you negotiate with the government? how can i start using a budget? how do you create traffic? how do you do social media? how can i enter the real banking system, which is what the ultimate goal is. so yeah, it may change how we do banking for small business. and we're getting better at it. >> stahl: detroit was in a lot of trouble before the financial crisis. but the financial crisis just did them in, 100%. that-- that was crushing. do you feel, in any way, that you're atoning for the sins of wall street, when you go and put your effort into detroit? is that in your head? >> dimon: i wouldn't use the word "atone." i all-- think we owe back to society. >> stahl: but detroit, specifically? the financial crisis just decimated the city. al tre-eouus little bit becauitkay toay, "yee everybody that was inv
>> stahl: the bank has also brought in additional investors. >> duggan: these are tough jobs to get. >> stahl: ...while the mayor is working hard to lure big-time manufacturers back into the city. early this year he persuaded fiat chrysler to build a new plant. that would mean 5,000 new jobs. the mayor needed to assure those companies that detroit could supply well-trained workers. but: >> duggan: our residents didn't have the skills to meet many of those jobs. and jamie dimon had j.p. morgan chase do a whole analysis. and it led to the program we have today, what we called detroit at work, one of the largest employment agencies in the country, where we now get detroiters, line them up for jobs at fiat chrysler, line the areas. >> stahl: from here they're sent to job training programs, which, based on j.p. morgan's analysis, have redesigned their approach. >> duggan: we took all of the
training programs in the city, and they now only train for jobs people are hiring for. which may seem obvious, but it wasn't before. >> stahl: many of the training programs are run by non-profit groups like focus hope. so this kind of thing might be at the chrysler plant, for instance. >> dimon: yeah. >> stahl: that got a $1.3 million grant from j.p. morgan chase. he's just trying to control it. >> stahl: it's all part of the city's long game to reverse detroit's long decline. it's an effort, the mayor says, that's a push against history. >> duggan: it goes back to the federal policies in the 1930s that would not lend in areas where people of color lived. you've had decades of federal policies that have worked against people of color to benefit caucasians leaving cities. >> stahl: j.p. morgan chase has now committed $200 million-- >> duggan: right, right. >> stahl: --to the city. is that enough?
i mean, your problems cost way more than that. >> duggan: nobody's saying j.p. morgan chase is the savior of the city by itself. you know, we've got a lot of major investors in this town. but they've been an important piece. they pushed this recovery of the city along the track faster than it would've been. >> stahl: how far along the plan have you come, up to now? >> duggan: i'd say we're about the third inning of the game. ( laughs ) >> stahl: third inning of the game. >> duggan: we got a long way to go, but we're definitely on the right path. >> stahl: j.p. morgan chase has now committed half a billion dollars to take what its learned in detroit and export it to, among other cities, chicago and washington, d.c. ( ticking ) >> cbs sports hq is presented by progressive insurance. i'm james brown with the scores from the n.f.l. today. baker mayfield's two touchdown passes snaps the browns' four-game skid.
ramar jackson accounts for four touchdowns as baltimore rolls. derrick henry runs for 188 yards and two scores as tennessee stuns kc. chicago outduels detroit and snaps its four-game slide. the jets survive and win the battle of now,. atlanta shocks new orleans to end its six-game losing streak. for more go to cbssportshq.com. . whoo! [ screaming ] and they never say a thing. [ sighs ] well, i feel better. that's why progressive covers them in your auto policy at no extra charge. [ crying ] he only needed a spare. keeping you and your secret keepers safe. tothe problem is corporationsfix he anything.ed a spare. and the people who run and own them have purchased our democracy. here's the difference between me and the other candidates. i don't think we can fix our democracy from the inside. i don't believe washington politicians
and big corporations will let that happen. the only way we can make change happen comestother ytrust lician is or the p outside. and if you say you trust the people, are you willing to stand up to the insiders and the big corporations, and give the people the tools they need to fix our democracy. a national referendum. term limits. eliminating corporate money in politics. making it easy to vote. i trust the people. and as president, i will give you tools we need to fix our democracy. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message. will it feel like the wheend of a journey?eginf thine you can create a lifelong income... so you have the freedom to keep doing
( ticking ) >> whitaker: for more than 30 years, filipino journalistmae in war zones. but she says what she's doing now is tougher. she's waging a battle for the truth in the philippines, a close american ally. she founded a news site in the capital, manila, called "rappler." her incisive reporting on philippine president rodrigo duterte's bloody drug war and his social media attack machine earned her recognition as "time magazine's" person of the year. it also made her a target. maria ressa says she has been threatened with rape, imprisonment and death for her reporting.yet she refuses to sto investg she says tru is too preo
iv withoight. mesthis ifar worse than any ware been . in a war zone, you know exactly where the threats are coming from. i plan my way in and we plan our way out, and you're there for a limited period of time. but today's threats are longstanding. there's no end to it. we've been living through three years of this kind of hell. >> whitaker: maria ressa is talking about the environment for journalists in the philippines under the unpredictable and, as she sees it, increasingly autocratic grip of president rodrigo duterte. >> duterte! duterte! >> whitaker: the raucous, former big-city mayor was swept into office on a populist wave three years ago. the people love him. but president duterte has no love for journalists, something he made clear to reporters in graphic terms. >> president rodrigo duterte: you want to know my sentiments? ( bleep ) you. >> ressa: he says outrageous
things, and somehow it appeals to the worst of human nature in a strange way. this guy knows how to communicate. he also understands the psyche of the filipino. >> whitaker: when rodrigo duterte was running for president, he vowed to rid the philippines of drug traffickers-- to kill them if necessary. candidate duterte told maria ressa he'd already killed three himself. >> duterte: i must admit i have, i have killed. i killed what-- three people? >> ressa: i don't really like people who kill people. ( laughs ) you know? but for someone to admit it, on camera, is fascinating. >> whitaker: we asked president duterte for an interview. he declined. but his spokesman, salvador panelo, agreed to answer our questions. so we went to malacanang palace
in manila, the philipine white house, where panelo showed us how difficult it is to get at the truth in the philippines. >> salvador panelo: first, it is not true that he brags about killing. when he speaks-- >> whitaker: he did say that. >> panelo: yes, but-- ( laughs ) you should take this person in context. >> whitaker: what is the context for saying that he killed drug dealers? >> panelo: well, he, there is, there is hyperbole in this particular person. like, when he says he kills, it doesn't mean that he really killed. >> whitaker: so it's-- it's not true that he killed drug dealers? >> panelo: he did, some, during his mayorship, but in self- defense. >> whitaker: ressa says constant blurring of the truth by duterte's government makes her head spin. >> ressa: when this first e rabb hole and i was alice in wonderland and the mad hatter is in charge. >> whitaker: he said he was going to "round up" drug dealers.oulde popular, i would think. what has gone wrong?
>> ressa: killing with impunity. ( woman screaming ) >> whitaker: ressa's news website, rappler, drew the president's ire when it reported more than 20,000 people had been killed in duterte's war on drugs, not the 5,000 the government claims. >> ressa: to even admit you killed 5,000 people without any due process is also unheard of. >> whitaker: how many people have been killed in this war on drugs here in the philippines? >> ressa: if you look at our own commission on human rights and the u.n.'s estimate of the number of people killed in the drug war, since july, 2016, at least 27,000 people killed. that's genocide. >> whitaker: all this bloodshed in asia's oldest democracy, one modeled on the united states. the philippines was a u.s. protectorate for almost 50 years through world war ii. it remains an important u.s. regional ally.
>> ressa: enshrined in the philippine constitution, which is similar to the united states, is the bill of rights: freedom of expression, freedom of the press. these are enshrined. and yet, freedom of the press has been curtailed. >> whitaker: she says after rappler turned the spotlight on the drug war's rising death toll, the president called rappler "fake news." he banned the website from malacanang palace and told filipinos, ressa's news site couldn't be trusted because it had ties to the c.i.a. >> duterte: c.i.a. funded... >> whitaker: but he's provided no evidence to back that up. >> ressa: it's ridiculous! it comes out of power's mouth. what do you do? >> whitaker: ressa says she's fighting, and losing, a battle for truth. she can't match the president's firepower on social media. and this model led many of duterte's attacks. mocha uson had been popular on the web for giving sex advice.
then she switched to politics, dia, shaing attackyear, she chine. to demean and discredit ressa and the fillipino press, uson popularized the term "presstitute." >> presstitute. >> ressa: the social media platforms have taken over the distribution of news globally. they treat a lie the same way you would treat a fact. and the lie that's incendiary, that is meant to anger you, spreads fastest. all the studies show that. that's our battle. without facts, you can't have truth. we cannot have meaningful dialogue, public dialogue, if we do not agree on the facts. and that's what these social media platforms have watered down. >> whitaker: after ressa reported in a detailed three- part series how president duterte's campaign used facebook and online trolls to attack
critics and spread falsehoods, maria ressa herself became a target. >> ressa: so, let me just go over the way they've attacked. the first is to incite hate, to incite violence against a potential target. >> whitaker: what did they do to you? >> ressa: allege corruption. allege c.i.a. second, women in particular, sexual attacks. >> whitaker: and the sexualized attacks... against you? >> ressa: i mean, i've been called every single animal you can think of. so, yes, to sexual attacks. rape, murder, behead. at one point i was getting 90 hate messages per hour. they wanted to pound me into silence. >> whitaker: were these attacks from people, or were they attacks from, i don't know, bots? >> ressa: fake accounts. so, they're real people that mask who they are this is information operations. it's information warfare. >> whitaker: facebook has taken down hundreds of those fake accounts linked to a network of duterte's allies. they were followed by millions of people.
the government insists maria ressa is not under attack, but she is under investigation. she's facing multiple charges including libel and tax fraud. >> i have been served a warrent. >> whitaker: she has been arrested twice. >> ressa: the head of that arresting group told our reporter. th is exactly what thenext." government is doing, systematically. be silent, or you're next. >> whitaker: 11 cases have been filed against you? >> ressa: they were looking for some way to be able to shut us up, right? i think you just have to look at the pattern. >> whitaker: the president's spokesman, salvador panelo, called maria ressa's claims "nonsense." a u.n. official says that the tax charges against her are being used, basically, to silence her reporting. >> panelo: ( laughs ) i disagree. pp stilln operion.
, abouhat s being-- ( laughs ) suppressed? >> whitaker: after she was arrested recently, you made a comment that it seemed that she enjoyed being in custody. >> panelo: yes. well, obviously, when she is facing the cameras. she loves it. >> whitaker: really? i'm serious. who enjoys being arrested and taken into custody? >> panelo: she appears to enjoy it, because she is always smiling. >> ressa: i mean, that's a ridiculous statement. i have done nothing except to be a journalist, and i will not stop being a journalist no matter how ridiculous the statements are that come from secretary panelo. >> whitaker: few countries are more dangerous for reporters today than the philippines. in the last three years, a dozen beaten to death. then, there's the president's rhetoric. listen to the way he addressed a reporter at one of his press conferences.
>> duterte: why are you a ( bleep ) son of a bitch? >> whitaker: on facebook people have called for maria ressa to be beaten and to be raped. >> panelo: i don't know about that. >> whitaker: no, no, no. this is true. i'm-- i'm telling you. maria ressa is just one. there are many, many journalists who feel that they are under attack, that they've been threatened. >> panelo: i don't think so. >> whitaker: a rappler reporter made this video of philippine journalists who say otherwise. she posted it on rappler's home page. >> have you been threatened with violence? >> yes. >> have you been threatened with death? >> yes. >> have you been told how you're going to be killed? >> yes. >> has the violence been described to you? >> yeah, blow my head off. or bury me alive. >> what will stop you from reporting? >> nothing. >> nothing. >> nothing. >> death? >> dude, you have to kill me. >> panelo: what death threats are they talking about? to my mind, they a madup.
>> whitaker: the president and his rhetoric bear no responsibility? >> panelo: no. because people in this country know this president. he's a teaser. >> whitaker: a teaser? >> panelo: yeah, he teases people. >> whitaker: the libel and tax charges against ressa are no laughing matter. she could go to prison for 63 years. and as ressa fights the cases in court, she's facing another charge. the president's spokesman panelo has threatened to add a new libel case on her and rappler, for "tarnishing" his "honor." >> ressa: i've committed no crime but to speak truth to power. >> whitaker: maria ressa now has respected human rights attorney amal clooney coming to her defense. clooney recently won freedom for two reuters journalists who'd been imprisoned for their reporting in myanmar. >> amal clooney: the maria ressa case in the philippines, like the reuters case in myanmar, exposes a cruel irony that i see time and time again in my work:
journalists who expose abuse face arrest, while those who commit the abuses do so with impunity. ableo sa: you're supposed to be and there should not be repercussions. >> whitaker: you told us that you do this because you want to protect democracy here in the philippines. it could be said that your problem is that democracy is rking in a way that you don't like. president duterte is very popular here. why is he so popular? >> ressa: he's a refreshing voice. he represented somebody who was anti-establishment and anti- elite even though he himself came from the elite. >> panelo: you know, the journalists here are surprised that we have this kind of president. they're shocked-- ( laughs ) --by his crude manner. but the more you try to destroy him, the more the ratings come up-- goes up.
ouour jobs this politics of hate in your country and mine, it can tear things down immediately. but hate does not build anything. and we need to build. and that's my hope, right, if you can turn off the spigot of hate and lies, then let us continue to work... then we have a fighting chance. ( ticking ) >> from imelda marcos to rodrigo duterte, how bill whitaker has seen reporting in the philippines change. go to 60minutesovertime.com. sponsored by ibrance. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor hr+/her2-postmenopausal wome tast b
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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ( ticking ) >> whitaker: now, an update on a story we reported in june called "s.g.b."-- stellate ganglion block. military and veterans hospitals have been experimenting with s.g.b. injections for post traumatic stress disorder, notoriously difficult to treat and often litspression and other
psychological problems. s.g.b. is injected into the neck and has long been used in chronic pain patients. we watched marine sergeant henry coto undergo treatment at the v.a. hospital in long beach, california. the injection took less than five minutes. within two minutes, coto told us he felt a huge difference. >> henry coto: well, like, i can't control my smile right now. >> whitaker: is it like a sense of euphoria? >> coto: it's like... like a big weight has been lifted off my-- my shoulder and my chest. and i can actually relax. >> whitaker: this past week, the journal "jama psychiatry" published a new study of s.g.b. the randomized clinical trial showed s.g.b. twice as effective as placebo injections to treat p.t.s.d. ll whi we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes." ( ticking ) i'm your curious cat,
- previously on "god friended me"... - the dioceses would like me to be the next bishop of new york. - arthur, how could you not tell me this? i can't marry you. - i love you, cara, and i know you can't say that yet, and it's okay. - the god account led me to paris, where i found a painting called "the path." - how do we get our hands on the key to unlock it? - well, i'd need access to the ai program that created the painting, - and the only person who can give that to us is-- - audrey grenelle... did you know there was a message hidden in the painting, "the path"? - how could you possibly know about that? - because it was meant for me. [inquisitive music] - just so we're clear, you dragged me all the way to my own office to show me my own painting? - well, like we said, we think that the message is hidden in the code. - the message that god left you is inside the code? - not god--the god account. - look, if you could just put your skepticism aside