tv Face the Nation CBS May 15, 2022 8:30am-9:30am PDT
morning. ♪♪ [trumpet] ♪♪ captioning sponsored by cbs ♪♪ >> brennan: good morning. and welcome to "face the nation." i'm margaret brennan. we have a lot to get to today, but we begin with breaking news from buffalo, new york, where an 18-year-old male is in police custody following a mass shooting that killed 10 and injured three others. that massacre is being investigated by the justice department as a hate crime, and an act of, quote, "racially motivated violent extremism." president biden referred to it as an act perpetrated in white nationalist ideology, and he has called fon an end to hateful
domestic terrorism. nancy che rorterantic sc after a gunman ed tops supermarket saturday afternoon starting in the parking lot. police say the heavily-armed suspect shot four people outside, killing three, before moving inside the store. >> when i first saw him shooting, he shot a woman, a deacon, and he shot another woman. then he went inside the store and started shooting again. >> reporter: that's when police say he encountered a retired police officer working as a security guard who fired multiple shots that hit the gunman, but didn't impact him because of his tactical gear. the suspect then killed the guard. the suspect held the gun to his own neck after encountering police, but eventually surrendered. >> this is pure evil. straight up, racially motivated hate crime. >> reporter: of the 13 people shot, 11 were black. the suspect, 18-year-old pate pn
gendron had a hate-filled -- >> to see that o scurity shattered by an individual, a white supremacist, who has engaged in an act of terrorism -- >> reporter: gendron is from con lin, new york, about three and a half hours from buffalo. he was arraigned hours after the attack on a first-degree murder charge, pleating not guilty. >> a first-degree murder charge carries a sentence of life in prison without parole if convicted. the suspect is being held without bond and is set to appear in court again on thursday. margaret? >> brennan: nancy chen, thank you. we want to go to the governor of new york, kathy hochul. good morning to you, governor. >> good morning.
i'm happy to be here, to be on the show, but it is really a tragic day here in new york. >> brennan: our condolences to you and that community. are you concerned about further violence in your state? >> g >> well, we're taking proactive measures to make sure we're monitoring all social media platforms. this is on a man manifesto a whe back. we are worried about what is out there being disseminated globally. this information from yesterday's attack was already out there, it was live-streamed. theyi better jobis individual mmonitoring the hate speech out there, and comes on the guys of white supremacy. which is contactly what happened here in buffalo. >> brennan: i want to ask
about the weapon that this shooter used. you have said it was legally obtained. you've also said that the shooter had been, at one point, under their surveillance of medical authorities because of past comments he had made about carrying out a shooting. how was he allowed to buy and to hold on to that weapon? >> that is exactly what is being investigated now. i understand that he wrote something when he was in high school, and that that was being investigated. so we're going to get to the bottom of that. >> brennan: so it is possible that he should not have been sold that weapon? is that an oversight in the state? >> we don't know that right now. but i'm going to get to the bottom of it and found out right now. it would have happened a little while back. he is 19 years old. apparently he was investigated when he was a high school student, brought to the attention of thees. he haeical evaluationething head
written in school. we're going to find out what happened in the aftermath. >> brennan: you just mentioned going online and taking what is out there in the social media space seriously. you've called it a feeding frenzy for white supremacy. how do you actually regulate this without impeding on free speech? you have a number of media and social media companies with big offices in your state, specifically what are you asking them to do? >> no, we want them to stay in our state. and we want them to be more vigilant and use the resources they have to hire more people, and be able to identify the second this hate speech appears. law enforcement also monitors this as well. we have the f.b.i. monitoring it, and the state police. so we need a multi-faceted approach. not just from law enforcement, but also from the platforms that are allowing this to spread. they have a responsibility as well.
>> brennan: the justice department has called this an act of racially motivated violent extremism. you used a sharper word. you said white supremacist terrorism. there is no federal statue that does that. should there be? >> yes, there are domestic terrorism laws on the books. this can be prosecuted under state on federal laws. it started with our district attorney at the state level. so this individual is not going to see the light of day again, whether it is under federal prosecution or state or just murder one. this person murdered 10 innocent victims in our community just yesterday. >> brennan: governor, good luck to you. thank you for your time this morning. >> thank you very much. >> brennan: we turn now to the mayor of buffalo, byron brown. good morning to you, mr. mayor. our thoughts and condolences are with you and your community.
how are you all handling this? incorpor>> mayor: thank you, ma. it is very painful, very raw, very fesh. we're wrapping our arms around the families of those whose lives were lost. we're standing strong as a community. and working to not let this horrible act of hate detract from us being a loving, warm, welcoming community. >> brennan: the shooter was allegedly motivated by white supremacist ideology. i know you are the first african-american mayor of buffalo, which has a city has been called very segregated, if not one of the most in the country. how do you all unite in the wake of something like this? >> mayor: we're a mid-sized american city of over 278,000
people. and this part of the city, 80% african-american but diverse, with people of many different backgrounds living in this community. we are certainly saddened that someone drove from hundreds of miles away, someone not from this community, that did not know this community, that came here to take as many black lives as possible, who did this in a willful, premeditated fashion, planning this. but we are a strong community. and we will keep moving forward. >> brennan: is there an ongoing threat? are your residents safe today? >> i think the question that we need to ask ourselves: are any residents safe in this country
anywhere? we have to focus on sensible gun control. that said, after all of these mass shootings that have taken place in this country for different reasons, year in and year out, month in and month out, week in, and week out, let buffalo, new york, be the last place that this kind of mass shooting happens. >> brennan: mr. mayor, good luck to you, and thank you for your time today. >> mayor: thank you very much, margaret. >> brennan: we turn now to the economy, and we learned this week that the cost of things like food and energy rose compared to last month. secretary of transportation pete buttigieg joins us now. good morning to you, mr. secretary. >> good morning. der >> brennan: as a representative of the
administration, i want to ask you about your reaction to the events in buffalo. you were once a mayor. do you think there should be a federal law criminalizing domestic terrorism. the president used that phrase, but it is not really on the books. >> whether it is called terrorism legally or not, this was terrorism. this was hate. and this would be a good day for every politician in this country, left, right, and center, every media figure in this country, left, right, and center, to come out and unequivocally condemn white nationalism and any other hateful ideology that could have contributed to something like this before it happens again. >> brennan: but should there be a federal statute that elevates things, should there be an association directly with terrorism? >> again, we don't know all of the details that fit the legal
definitions. what we know is somebody traveled a long distance with an ar-15 to hunt human beings, and to hunt black people. we need to make sure we route out that kind of hate and we have a conversation about the availability of the kind of weaponry he seems to have had. and yet we seem to be having that conversation over and over and over again as a country. >> brennan: i want to ask you a little on a personal note, we've been talking about this baby formula shortage nationwide that has been ongoing for months. you have infants at home. do you have problems getting a hold of formula? >> this is very personal for us. we have two nine-month-old infants. we have been getting in touch with other relatives in other places. we are all set for now. but i think about what that would be like. if you're a shift worker with
two jobs, you literally don't have a car, and you literally don't have the team or money to be going from store to store. that's why it is such a serious issue, and that's why ets it is getting attention, including, by the way, by the presi supply-chain issues, and then you have the issue with this one brplant, abbott. and the recall in february. why has it taken so long. the president seems to say it is new information to him. he said if we were better mind readers, i guess we could have done something earlier. >> the administration acted after day one, creating more flexibility for the wick program. there are more actions under way, including looking at imports. but fundamentally, we are here because a company was not able to guarantee that its plant was safe. and that plant has shut down.
>> brennan: but that is the federal government's job as regulators -- >> as regulators, yes. but let's be very clear. this is a capitalist country. the government doesn't make baby formula. and companies -- a company, by the way, with 40% market share, messed up, and is unable to confirm that a major plant is safe and free of contamination. the most important thing to do, of course, is to get that plant in michigan up and running safely. and that's the work that is going on between the company and the f.d.a.. it has to be safe and up and running as soon as possible. this is the difference between a supply-chain problem, a problem about moving goods around, and a supply problem, which has to do with whether they're being produced in the first placech place.and the administration is working with other companies,
which is helping to compensate. but at the end of the day, this plant needs to come back on line safely. >> brennan: and we'll have more on that later and the show. how is the administration making sure that those essential ingredients that are actually required for something like formula are actually available? >> a shortage of ingredients is not what led to the shut down -- >> brennan: it is a factor. and price inflation is one of the factors, among many, that has been blamed for months about the problem with baby formula, prior to the recall in february. >> america has the capacity to make the baby formula -- >> brennan: but you're going to europe -- >> that's because we have four companies making 90% of the formula. it is basically a series of monopolies that have added up into enormous market
concentration. by the way, this is an issue the president has been talking about in area after area after area. whether we're talking about fertilizer -- >> brennan: but it is a government contract -- this is also part of -- i'm using the term food stamp program -- >> which is exactly from day one -- >> brennan: this isn't just a private sector problem, is my point. the federal government is involved -- >> a plant shutting down because they can't assure it is physically free from contamination, and the responsibility of the regulators that it will, in fact, be safe when it comes back online. >> brennan: i want to get to you on inflation. gas prices, highest ever prices in the country, $4.45 a gallon. are you asking americans to drive less? >> no. we're asking americans to recognize we're working this issue because we're feeling it,
too. >> brennan: should americans drive less? >> what we want to do is create options for americans to be able to get where they're going more affordably. we upped the 2020 models. if you used to have to fill up four times a month, it might be three now. and we're working to make electric vehicles more affordable because that has a huge benefit, especially in terms of protecting families from these kinds of price volatilities. >> brennan: and batteries are also a supply-chain issue. >> right. so are we going to take that an issue and not do anything, or are we going to work on that. we know we can get more americans into these vehicles. and we also know, right, that with gas prices on the rise and the president's acted with the strategic petroleum reserve, with ethanol flexibility to try
to stabilize those prices. but we know we could be lower other costs for americans. this is the most important thing that we need to take a hard look at when we're fighting inflation with everything we've got, that we made the case to lower the cost of insulin to $35, and tried to lower the cost of prescription drugs, and we're blocked from doing so by congressional republicans who then come around and want to talk about inflation -- >> brennan: but the public isn't interested in things that didn't work or aren't law. they want to know what is going on right now -- >> that's if you want to know what congress is doing -- >> brennan: i want to ask you what the administration things in response to senator warren, and speaker pelosi says she is putting together a bill about banning unconsciously depressing pricing. this has been called dangerous by jason fuhrman, and nonsense.
do you agree it is nonsense? >> what i can tell you from an administration perspective, there is guidance going out to crackdown on price gouging -- >> brennan: how much of a factor is that? >> one thing we know is we're in this moment, where americans are feeling the pinch on product after product, and some companies have become ridiculously profitable, notably including oil companies, which have specifically said they're not going to use the permits in the production capacity that they have. why would they? they're incredibly profitable right now. they're not unhappy about the situation. the public is unhappy, the president is unhappy, and we're taking action. >> brennan: we're going to leave it there, secretary buttigieg, glad to have you here. "facthe natiwi right
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>> brennan: and we turn now to dr. scott gottlieb, former trump f.d.a. commissioner and pfizer board member. good morning to you, doctor. >> doctor: good morning. >> brennan: i want to tap into your perspective as someone who ran the f.d.a., you just heard the administration's view that this baby formula shortage is really the failure of one company here. and that the f.d.a. isn't necessarily fully responsible for ensuring things at that plant. i wonder how you respond to that. >> doctor: well, look, these were persistent problems that appear to have been handled poorly, certainly by the company. f.d.a. didn't exert all of the oversight at that facility. there were known problems at that facility many years. the agency had a 34-page whistle-blower report in hand making pretty serious accusation there was data falsification withheld from inspectors. it should have prompted more aggressive action earlier. now that facility has been shut
by abbott and production isn't going on, it will be hard to clear the facility. it will be the kinds of allegations that are hard for the agency to clear. even if they're not able to prove a causal relationship between the infections we saw in children and the facility itself, which so far the agency hasn't been able to prove, and they may never be able to prove that. >> brennan: you just said that the f.d.a. didn't do all it could. we know they didn't inspect the abbott facility back in 2020. they stopped inspecting some places during the pandemic that weren't mission critical. isn't baby formula mission critical? how does the facility not get inspected by the f.d.a.? >> it is mission critical. and during the government shutdown we observed inspections of infant formula plants because of the risk -- >> brennan: when you were in office? >> doctor: when i was in office. especially given the fact there have been prior findings there. the fact that the f.d.a. went into that facility last year and
found five different strains of coronavirus, that is a concern. so they should have been under close supervision. we have sort of the worst of both possible worlds. we have a regulatory scheme that is stringent enough that creates obstacle to getting into the market. there has only been one new entrant, but at the same time, it doesn't provide stringent enough oversight of oligarchary. they're going to eventually need to get that facility reopened. the timeline for that is very unclear right now. >> brennan: i'm sure the f.d.a. commissioner will be questioned about that on capitol hill this week. you're pointing to regulation failures. that whistle-blower report said they failed to maintain proper
records and released untested baby formula. does this sound like criminal behavior to you? >> doctor: potentially, and that whistle-blower report was sent to the office of the criminal investigations at the f.d.a.. remember, this division at f.d.a. is nine people, and it was even fewer when i was there. it has grown in recent years, and we made a budget request to increase the s size of that gro. this has been an underresourced part of the agency for a very llong time. it has contributed to the agency trying to assert more fervent oversight. and other issue may be that the people who the whistle-blower has indicated maybe the same people now making reputations to the agency about the safety of that facility. if that is the case, that is going to complicate issues. >> brennan: we have more to talk with you, as always, so stay with us. on the other side of the break, we'll continue the conversation.
>> brennan: if you can't watch the full "face the nation," you can set your d.v.r., or we're available on demand, plus you can watch us through our cbs and paramount apps. and we're replayed on cbs at noon eastern. you're probably thinking that these two are in some sort of lover's quarrel. no, no, no. they're both invested... in green energy. and also each other. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop. what would you like the power to do? can a company make the planet a better place? ♪♪ what if it's a company of people working beside friends and neighbors? pursuing 100% renewable energy in our operations. aiming to protect, manage or restore millions of acres of land.
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>> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we want to continue now with former f.d.a. commissioner and pfizer board member dr. dr. scott gottlieb. dr. gottlieb, we've been talking about the baby formula shortage. i want to ask you about covid, but to pick up on something you said, i think you told me there are only nine people who oversee the entire baby formula industry in this country? nine? >> doctor: that's right. i believe there were three when i started at f.d.a. we got some more resources for that group. and there is a budget request for the current administration to add four more people. only nine people oversee the
entire industry in the united states. and it was less than that several years ago. >> brennan: that is astounding. let me ask you about covid. we hit this horrendous milestone this week of one million deaths over the entire course of this pandemic. right now we're averaging 326 deaths per week, and so we've come a far way. but we heard from both dr. anthony fauci and dr. wolensky, that they have started putting on masks when they go indoors once again. there is a concern about an up tick. what do you see in terms of trend lines? where are we? >> doctor: we're definitely seeing a surge in infection in the northeast. if you look at states like connecticut and new york, it does appear that the infections are peaking right now. it is mostly a wave of infection driven by b-2, and b2.1.
it looks like most of the people who are getting more infected aren't previously infected with b-1, but some who escaped that are getting caught by this current wave. i believe that cases will continue to come down. weiwaste water data shows overal cases coming down. there are models floating around in the administration that shows a big wave of infection this summer. but we didn't see that in 2020 and in 2021. it does pose a risk for the fall, and it is going to be important to learn whether or not the newly formulated vaccines now in development will cover this b-2 variant very well. but that remains to be seen. >> brennan: so you reject the idea of a summer surge, even though scientists, like dr. birx, who was on this program a few weeks ago, is predicting and seeing a trend line that makes her very concerned that could
happen because it has happened before? >> doctor: yeah, and there is a model that the white house was briefed on last week that shows a big surge of infection in the summer, driven by b-2, as it moves in to the west and the midwest. but other people disagree with that model. i think it is more likely you'll see infection levels come down. we thought there would be a big surge in the summer last year when it emerged into the spring, but infection levels came down and we had a relatively quiet june and july, and then delta came along in late august. i think that is the pattern we'll see again, where june and july is relatively low. and as we get into the summer, b2.1 will emerge, mostly in the south. >> brennan: d dr. gottlieb, we'll be watching that. voters head to the polls for the mid-term elections this tuesday.
it iskbm■ the contest among republicans in pennsylvania that is attracting a lot of attention. our robert costa tells us why. >> reporter: top republicans are flocking to pennsylvania in the final days of the state's red-hot senate primary race, knowing the state will be a crucial battleground in this november 's battleground election. >> if three republicans running for office said i love donald trump -- i love donald trump even more. i have donald trump tattooed on my rear end. >> reporter: and the top three contenders are pitchingt chs trump's political legacy. but voters face a conundrum: who exe bill. mehmet wnresi endorsement last month, but he is against david mccormick, whose wife served in the trump administration as a deputy
national security advisor, and hard-right candidate kathy barnette, whose fiery message on abortion hascaught fire with grassroots conservatives. >> it definitely made me become very active about the sanctity of life. >> reporter: but recent polls shows barnett jumping into the top tier, but she faced scrutiny of her past. she has mostly denied and deflected, hoping to keep up her momentum. on saturday, in what was billed as her final campaign rally, barnett spoke to supporters in doug county, alongside another candidate. >> stand behind the column, please. >> reporter: but cbs news and ohers were refused entry. no access, no questions allowed. >> they told us no press, sir. >> reporter: trump has been watching her rise carefully and warned her supporters to stick with oz, arguing barnett, if
nominated will, quote, "never be able to win in november ." and her rivals are sounding the alarm. you called kathy barnette a mystery person. what do you mean by that? >> i called kathy barnette a mystery because every time she answers a question, he raises more questions. we don't know who she is. >> reporter: would kathy barnette be a risky bet for republicans in no in november ? >> listen, i've gotten to know cathy on the campaign trail. she was interested, in the last 24 months in a congressional seat which she lost by 24 points. >> reporter: voters are divided. for "face the nation," this is robert costa cost reporting from philadelphia. >> brennan: we turn now to the war in ukraine. charlie d'agata has the latest on the diplomatic front and the
battlefield. >> reporter: good morning, margaret. with finland now on the virge of joining nato, president vladimir putin faces the prospect of sharing an 800-mile border with a nato partner. finland today form formalized is intention, with c sweden likelyo follow suit in the days ahead. >> we have today, an historic day, finland will maximize its security. >> reporter: president putin has already warned the finnish president he has made a mistake in joining the alliance. it comes as russia has faced significant losses, pulling back from ukraine's second largest city of kharkiv. but the shelling continues. this 57-year-old lost everything to a russian missile. this was my home, she said, and
yesterday it was burned down. russia has now turned its fire power on eastern ukraine's industrial donbas region, targeting infrastructure, bridges, oil refineries, warehouses. but standing here, looking at the size of this crater in the middle of a dirt road in a quiet residential neighborhood, it is hard to know exactly what the russians were aiming for. the shear devastation caused by an airstrike in bucha that tore homes apart, leaving residents angry. we need help, a woman shouts in despair. everything is destroyed, broken. salvaging what is left of their homes and their lives. british military intelligence reports that despite that kind of bombardment, russihas failed to achieve substantial territorial gains in the past
>> brennan: we want to return to the economy and the financial challenges facing this country. we turn to the former c.e.o. and current chairman of goldman sachs. he joins us from waterville, new york. good morning. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: americans haven't faced inflation b like this in 0 years. gas is up 44%, eggs 23%, increase year over year. and spillover into the spfsz. services. hotel price, 20% increase, airlines over 30%. what does all of this indicate to you? >> i'll tell you how we got
here: we had this massive event, covid, lockdowns all around the world. and at the time that this was beginning, it was a huge crisis. you say the worst in 40 years, kind of unprecedented that everywhere in the world, all locked down at the same time. in response, there was a massive public policy response to overwhelm it, and it was a little bit of fighting the last war in some ways. in the financial crisis, the feeling and the aftermath is it took a long time to recover from that. so this time we were going to go big, and we went big, and thacrg assets. we have too much growth, too many stimulus. >> brennan: so you agree when they point to things like all of the fiscal spending adding to inflation? >> sure. now, again, at the time it was
very uncertain, and the most important thing was to not -- was to not lose all of those jobs and have a massive crisis, so they reacted. i think they reacted sensibly with what they knew at the time. you can argue about that, but that's all with the benefit of hindsight. >> brennan: let's talk about what is happening now to try to control it. for our audience, it is the central bank's job to control inflation. chairman powell said getting it down to 2% is going to involve some pain. what does that indicate to you? and do you think the fed is doing what is needed right now? >> the object is there is an imbalance, too much demand. what you have to do is slow down that demand. you have to slow down the economy. and so they're going to have to raise rates. they're going to have to curtail, hopefully -- reduce the number of positions and increase the size of the labor force, and
that is going to involve some pain. the real pain is partly what the fed is going to do, and just that this inflation, some of it is sticky. we have something like 8% inflation. some of that is transitory. and some of that will go away. eventually the war in ukraine will be over. some of the supply-chain shortages will go away, but some will be sticky and with us for a while. while we're talking about this in the macro sense, and certainly individuals at the bottom quarter of the pie-sharing, it is going to be quite difficult and oppressive. >> brennan: difficult and oppressive. you lived through the last financial crisis, goldman sachs, obviously, a key part. you know it very well. when you say it took a long time -- it took about 10 years to recover from the last financial crisis. >> yes. that's quite a long time. >> brennan: what does recovery look like?
are you saying strap in for more than a decade of struggle here? >> well -- no, no, it's a little different. there were a lot of different things going on. it is always at least a little different. there you had the banks in trouble, a lot of distress, a lot of liquidity issues, big-credit issues, nobody was sure who was able to pay their debts as they arose. and, again, the financialtomy im is the intermediateiary, and that is not impaired today. the consumer is starting out at a strong level. there is a lot of -- it is going to be hard for people to have savings, but they already have savings. they will not increase it quickly because of inflation, but they're starting at a much better place than we were then. and the fed has, again, very powerful tools. some of this will transition away. some of the supp supply-chain is will go away.
china will not be locked down forever. the war in ukraine will not go on forever. and some of these things are a little stickier, like energy prices. there are some elements of the supply-chain that will be a lot stickier. i'll give you an example: we were the beneficiary for a very long time of the globalization of the economy, which made goods and services cheaper. because we took advantage of cheap labor in countries. how good do we feel to be relying -- this is part of your last talk with secretary buttigieg -- how comfortable are we now to rely on those supply-chains that are not within the borders of the united states we can't control. do we feel good about getting all of our semiconductors from taiwan, which, again, is an object of china. >> brennan: do you think we're headed towards recession? >> it is certainly a very, very high risk factor. but there is a path -- it's a nnarrow path -- but i think the
fed has very powerful tools. it is hard to see the effects of them quickly enough to alter it, but i think they're responding well. i think it is -- it's definitely a risk. if i were running a big company, i would be very prepared for it. if i was a consumer, i would be prepared for it. but it is not baked in the cake. >> brennan: all right. lloyd blankfein, thank you for you insights. we'll be backwe'll be back in a.
>> brennan: former secretary of defense, mark esper, is out with a new book, called "a sacred oath," which chronicles his time in the trump administration. mr. secretary, welcome to "face the nation." >> margaret, great to be with you. >> brennan: i want to talk to you about a number of things, but you did say recently after the events of january 6th, which took place when you were out of office, you now consider president trump a threat to democracy. the committee that is investigating january 6 said they have in their possession a draft secretary order that would have had the then defense
secretary seize voting machines, and the justice department and the pentagon would be involved somehow in stopping the transfer of that power. do you think it is important for the committee to extend that information to the public? >> first, let me extend my condolences to the families in buffalo. the committee has to get to the events leading up to january 6, so there is a degree of accountability to make sure it doesn't happen again. it is absolutely important. >> brennan: just even laying that out to you, it is kind of astounding to hear. and in your book, you write general milley actually had an agreement with the other members of the joint chiefs that the lead military commanders in the country to all resign if president trump tried to use the military to stop the transfer of power. you write about personally being concerned that that is what he
was trying to do. so you saw evidence, or you had good reason to believe, there was an attempt here to basically stage a coup? >> i had a lot of concern about what might or might not happen in the months leading up to the election, right? there was talk about conducting strikes -- military strikes against other countries. the president, through the summer, was talking about sending troops into seattle and portland, and i write about in the final days i had this private meeting with the head of the national guard and general milley and i talk about what might or might not happen the day after the election, concerned there may be the use of the military to somehow influence the outcome. there is criticism why i didn't speak up, and it is because i wanted to be there on the spot to be a circuit breaker. the only two people in the united states who can deploy u.s. troops is the secretary and the secretary of defense. i was in that pivotal position to act if i thought something was outlandish or irresponsible.
that's what it came down to me. >> brennan: why didn't you speak out as soon as you left office? why didn't you speak publicly about all of this? >> well, the election was over. i figured the president would challenge the election and after a few weeks, it would be over and we would have a peaceful transition of power. >> brennan: but he did. there was a peaceful meeting about what happens on january 6. you're saying you actually were worried about that yourself? >> i was concerned. you always have to think through alternative scenarios what might or might not have happened. i said on another network i would have certainly spoken out if he had won the election, but he didn't. and at that point in time, i was patiently waiting to see what would happen, making sure that the peaceful transition of power would happen. i joined the other living secretaries of defense, who
wrote an op-ed, three days earlier, expressing our concern about the peaceful handover of power, and warning the pentagon, if you will, about the importance of them doing their duty. >> brennan: you talk about, and have spoken quite a lot this past week, about the events in lafayette square. >> right. >> brennan: it is important for the public record, you were in the oval office with the president, and he spoke about a very specific number, 10,000, of active duty troops potentially being sent into the streets of washington, d.c.. i want to play a clip for you here. i asked then attorney general bill barr exactly about that. a senior administration official told our david martin in a meeting at the white house on monday morning, the president demanded that 10,000 active duty troops be ordered into american streets. is that accurate? >> that's completely false. that's completely false. sunday night -- >> brennan: the president did
not demand that? >> no, he did not demand that. >> brennan: why do you seem to have different recollections? >> i wrote in my book that bill barr and i have different recollections. the president calls us to the pentagon earlier that morning and talks about 10,000 troops. i don't know why we have different recollections. i think in all these cases people hear or see different things, but i'm 110% confident what of president was seeking that minoring. morning.>> brennan: the former attorney general se said it was completely false -- >> people ask me about things i can't recall. the way we defuse this, bill barr to his credit put together 5,000 law enforcement officers, and i put up to 5,000 national guards to take care of this. do the math, 5,000 and 5,000 -- >> brennan: you're trying to
retrofit the 10,000 -- >> i'm trying to give him the 10,000, without giving him 10,000 active duty troops. and we pulled it off. it was a way to get on with what we needed to do. >> brennan: are you concerned if the former president stands for election, he will surround himself with people who didn't try to short-circuit it. robert o'brien, the chief-of-staff, mark meadows, you talk about steven miller, all people who were egging on -- >> he certainly will. i describe the moment in the book where he tacks talks aboute people he should put in office. so, yes, that is a concern of mine. >> brennan: should any of those people have proximity to the public office? >> no, that's my opinion. >> brennan: this book is worth
>> brennan: watch the "cbs evening news" with norah o'donnell tomorrow night with an exclusive interview with the president of the company that makes the enfamil company formula for babies. that's it for this week. for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. ♪♪ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org for state controller, only yiu will save taxpayers money. wait, who, me? me? no, not you. yvonne yiu.
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