(upbeat music continues) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music) good morning and welcome to mosaic. i'm ron swisher. this is the day of pentecost. for some it means the birthing of the church as well as the broadening of the church. the birthing where we might sing happy birthday but we also may be singing in christ there is no east or west for we broaden our

mission and ministry on this day of pentecost. the last time you saw me was on easter. and i had two dynamic guests at that time who told us a lot about easter. i was so inspired i asked him to come back. so we are blessed to have carol esies and gerald hopkins. welcome back. >> thank you. >> you were so dynamic that we were on youtube for the first time and youtube celebrated its tenth year anniversary last month and therefore they celebrated by having us on there. >> i didn't get any word that we went viral. >> right, right. i know a lot of people know about easter at that time because of what you folks shared. so hopefully they will feel the same after hearing of pentecost. before we do that, carol, tell us about your background and ministry. >> i'm a native san

franciscoen, very proud to have been born and raised in the city. grew up in the hade ashbry strict district. so i graduated from the graduate theological union in berkeley. i serve as a chaplain for the palliative care department at kaiser. i'm also the senior pastor at elmhurst united methodist church in oakland. >> great. and jim? >> i was born in salt lake city, grew up in western colorado, some college in oregon, ultimately graduated from fresno pacific college, american baptist seminary of the west. >> and you are president. >> i'm currently back as the chair of the board of trustees. >> all right. >> it is such an important place in my life. what i learned there, i can't define myself without that experience. spent some time in los angeles. and since 1989, i have been the

pastor at lake shore avenue baptist church at the corner of lake shore and man dana where we are dedicated to seeking the peace of our city. >> that's 26 years, right? >> yeah. >> great, great. without giving you a memo you are in red. >> the spirit moves. >> right. tell us about pentecost and if you were speaking to an audience, a congregation that knew nothing about pentecost, what would you say first to them? >> pentecost is a time where the spirit is moving to empower the people. so instead of focusing on jesus, jesus is then turning the table around to say, now it's your turn. you take it and you run with it. because we are the hands and the feet and the body in flesh of god. >> i like that. and jim? >> i'm thinking exactly the same way. knowing that this day was coming, i called a little

gathering of folks in our congregation and said tell me what you think about pentecost. i respect you. one of the folks said exactly the same thing. pentecost is a kind of graduation. jesus says as i have been physically with you. now you, body of christ, you are going to be physically present, empowered by the spirit and the world. it is testimony for you to step up and grow up. >> and like both of those thoughts on the holy spirit and on pentecost. i'm of the bias that a lot of people do not put the emphasis on the pentecost that we do on advent christmas, we emphasize lent and easter, but there is no emphasis on pentecost and the spirit. why do you think that is if i'm right about that? >> i would like to think it is sometimes a very sad commentary for us because folk in our

humanist want to follow but not want to be doers. so it is easy to say i'm a follower of jesus christ. but jesus' teachings and lessons seem to indicate more of us doing and partnerring and participating. so sometimes we want to be couch potatoes and watch somebody else doing the work. >> thank you, thank you. >> i think a couple of things. when we speak of the holy spirit holy ghost, i'm not sure that is an endearing term for most folks. churches are not necessarily emotional or pentecostal in their outlook and they say what does pentecost have to do with us. we can definitely be empowered by the spirit without being pentecostal in our practice. i think we need to claim that. the spirit moves with us whether we are a quiet

congregation or loud congregation. the spirit is still present and active and moving. >> very good. we will come back to that. thank you for this introduction to the spirit and to pentecost. we are with carol esties and jim hopkins. please join us.

welcome back to mosaic. we have been talking about pentecost and that's why we are in the red. red symbolizes the spirit coming on the day of pentecost. in acts 2, you see a diversity of people responding to the spirit. we have talked a lot about the spirit and your definition of the spirit. tell us a little more about what you think happened at pentecost. >> a good question can be asked about pentecost is was it primarily an auditory experience or was it primarily a hearing experience? was it speaking in tongues or hearing in a new way? and i don't know if we can solve that but i know that listening is always very important. and pentecost is a challenge to listen and hear each other in new ways and trust that the spirit will be in that process of earnest listening. listening is one way that we can bind the nations and heal the planet. >> good, good. would you add to

that carol? >> i think too, what jim was saying, it was definitely a process of discernment and deep feeling, and feeling the movement and presence of the holy spirit that had not been present to them before, especially with the absence of jesus. so there was more of a focal point of reference for them. what is that feeling, that movement? because when you have somebody who has such a dynamic personality as i think jesus had and that aura, that energy can be focused there outwardly instead of inwardly. >> okay, okay. you know, i was looking at some of the scriptures of pentecost and not only do you have acts 2 but you have genesis with the tower of babble where the opposite happens. and then you have a passage in ezekiel, the dry bones, i'm not sure which you will focus on but i was looking

ahead to see exactly what those scriptures are. what is your approach to those scriptures? >> and i like to add in john 19 when jesus comes into the closed room with the disciples, they are locked behind doors in fear and he breathes on them the spirit and says go forgive as i have forgiven you, and being practitioners of forgiveness is one of the primary acts of the spirit filled community. >> i see, i see. >> and then go out too and be amongst all people, that god is not a god of exclusion. that's why the spirit shows up, representing so many different tongues, so many different languages, so it says that i'm here and available and abundantly open and accepting of all people. >> i like that. you know in our society right now, we are going through is lot of racial

conflict, you know not starting with ferguson but even further back. we had new york and of course we had baltimore still on our heart and mind. do you see the spirit breaking down some of the divisions and the conflicts that are going on? how would the spirit work in that, do you think? >> i think it's a complex situation, complex and challenging. and i think if folk were more willing to see that the spirit is in each of us, and that it is universal, and that there is no difference, but the spirit is calling us to be humane towards one another so that we can have oo conversation about our differences but our similarities, so that we can greet the light and hope of god in us and we can stop warring against one another. >> okay. >> especially in our african american communities. we need to see the light of god and the

presence of the holy spirit moving in each and every one so we can stop doing harm to ourselves. >> very good, thank you. >> the spirit is about both truth and reconciliation. we have to start with the truth. the spirit convicts us. the spirit reminds us of some harsh and awful realities, the racial disparities that continue to exist in our communities, disparities of opportunity and education, and disparity of hope. the spirit starts first by convicting us of these and then moves us forward to reconciliation and hope. but there is no justice without some truth. we got to start with the truth. and one of the things we see in the scriptures is the spirit sometimes convicts and says this isn't right. and saying this isn't right is the first step to moving forward. >> those are excellent thoughts by both of you. when you talked

about truth and reconciliation, i thought of the archbishop matew and bringing people together and asking people to confess and then forgiveness comes and reconciliation comes. >> pentecost could result in a movement like that in our communities, my goodness. >> it would be tremendous. you know what he shouted, i didn't know this until i read it it it the other day. he shouted among the people to have them raise their hands and shout v.s.p. which means very special people. and he says we are very special people because god loves us. we are made in the image of god. it is not something we earn. it is the gift of god. so he wanted everyone to know that and not just his own people but all people which is what you have been saying. >> on pentecost, you could say is very spirited people. >> absolutely, absolutely. >> we are going to come back to this spirited conversation and thank you for being with us.

please join us with carol and jim hopens, carol estes at elmhurst and jim hopkins at east lake shore baptist.

welcome back to mosaic. this is pentecost and we have been talking about the power o of the spirit breaking down barriers and you knowitinging us and bringing us together. i was telling my colleagues at my congregation, i try to encourage them to wear red at pentecost and they have at fairfield. i'm really pleased with it. again, what is the symbol of the red? >> the red is the fire, the spirit, the thrust of the movement of the holy spirit that just lights us up, the vibrancy and the celebratory color. in

different cultures they wear red instead of wearing black because it is a marking of celebration. >> so good. >> it's the tongues of flame that descend on us. so carol said it exactly correctly. >> you mentioned earlier that sometimes communities feel if they are not pentecostal, if they are not caresmatic, they don't have the spirit. some people who are pentecostal do not feel they have the spirit unless we have a lot of emotion. so could you say more on that? >> that continues. that has been a tension in the life of the church since the first pentecost. paul talks about it, how does the gift of tongues fit into our life together. he struggles with it and says it's a gift but it shouldn't be regarded as a mark that if you don't have it you are not really part of the family. it shouldn't be a sense of superiority and there are all

kinds of gifts. but he struggles with that and it continues to be a struggle in the community. if i don't feel great passion and i don't feel ready to shout does that mean the spirit left me out? i have to answer in my experience, no, no. sometimes the spirit is a still, small voice. you have to own that perspective as well. >> absolutely. >> i think the spirit most of all and what you all seem to allude to the fact that it brings community that loves one another and is able to proclaim that word and hear that word. >> yes, yes. it invites us to go outside and share that word. and what does it look like? it doesn't have to look like what your sharing looks like. doesn't have tolook like what jim's sharing looks like. but it looks like in a powerful, peaceful way in how spirit is inspiring us, communal and individually because it is about

the good news. >> i came across this wonderful quote from helen keller the other day. she said the most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen and even cannot be heard but has to be felt with the heart. >> amen. >> but it seems like pentecost you are able to see it, hear it, and feel it. >> well, since you mentioned helen keller and for many of your viewers who do not know that i'm visually impaired. so as a result of that, folks often ask, how is it that you know that somebody has entered? and i feel the energy. i think that's where my thrust of ministry comes from, that internal feeling. i'm always inviting folk to go in and feel the power of the holy spirit moving and empowering you and inviting you to activities. so it may not be the magical mystical thing. it may not be the thing that just pow, but it may just be the

silent moving off the inward motion that you can feel that brings you such joy that brings you joy and changes you in that instant. >> imagine people who come to you for counseling feel that. is that because you think of the extra dimension you think you might have? >> i think absolutely because i don't see you. i feel you. i have to listen very carefully for the nuances that are being spoken that i might not see in your body language in order for me to get a gist of what is being said. because far too often we get trapped sometimes in the external. we are looking to see where is this moving, where is god moving when god could absolutely be moving inside. but we are not listening because we are more focused on our physical scene and witnessing. >> that's dynamic. jim? >> if you are young people, ask

each other do you feel me? and that means a lot of things, do you hear me, do you understand me, do you respect me but it can be a very spiritual question. are we connected? i think that is an important question for pentecosts, do you feel me? >> that's great, that's great. >> i think it is also important too to set an intention of peace inwardly. because the energy of peace can be felt outwardly. i think when the young people are saying that, they are saying, do you feel me coming authentically with peace? and as models in the senior community, if we set a community of peace, how that can be so pervasive in our communities. >> that takes us back to baltimore, ferguson, oakland questions, the young people who take to the streets. most of them, that's what they are saying do you feel us? >> and do you feel our pain and

how are we addressing that? >> and dr. king said the cry or the riots are the cry of the unheard. so we know that it is not justified but it explains some of the pain. >> yes. >> absolutely. >> i know a lot of people say wow, why are they rioting? and we don't endorse that and embrace that. we hurt along with that. but we understand some of that. >> and the answer to the pain being expressed in the riots or the rebellions, however you want phrase them, the ans toor the pain is in some ways law and policy but it is also a spiritual answer. there is a deep cry for a spiritual reality to spoke to the pain that some people are feeling. >> and you alluded to the inachy equity in our society. it's so great. >> and i'm not saying a pentecostal movement but the pentecost of the movement is

calling us to be at the table. that's why it was given to everybody equally for us to be at the table and hear one another. >> amen. we are going to come back to our last segment but you have brought tremendous enlightenment to the spirit. thank you for being here. please join us for our last segment here on mosaic. it is great to host these two great guests with us.

i'm ron swisher and it has been an a great joy to have this program on pentecost. i mentioned earlier that we were on youtube. i'm sure this will be on youtube thanks to kpix because this is a lot of information about pentecost. it is because reverend carol estes of elmhurst church and reverend hopkins of lakeshore has been with us. in our final few minutes, what would you add to what we have said? anything we can walk away with on the spirit? you have said so much. >> i'm thinking about during may at lakeshore, we had an emphasis of caring for creation. on pentecost, we are going to talk about the importance of fresh air and with the spirit the challenge is to receive a breath of fresh air and be a breath of fresh air in your

communities. >> that's good. >> to play with the anology of how important fresh air is in our planet right now. >> i recall when you were in oakland you were active with community organizing so i'm sure some of that still affects your ministry. >> yeah, there is an organization based in san francisco called california inner faith power and light that addresses ecoological concerns. so pentecost, breath of fresh air. >> i think grace church has a lot to do with that. >> yes, they come out of grace church. >> and carol? >> recognizing that pentecost comes after 40 days -- 40 days after easter. and it is a celebration of resurrection. it is the gift we are being given through the spirit to be empowered, to be motivated and inspired to get up and become active and go out into the world

and do some good, do some good. as we talked last time, you know in our community, we are building our garden and it is growing and growing. we are inspired simply by the spirit of to feed people, to address the need where there is a food desert. so i say, be inspired, be empowered by the holy spirit and be not afraid because it takes every one of us to be actively involved to make a change and a change for the better. >> amen. perfect love casts out fear. you have expressed that greatly. >> that garden is putting some oxygen back into the environment. >> absolutely, and some good food in some folks' bellies. >> we only have a few seconds but christmas is a long time, advent. easter has a time. pentecost sometimes has that one day. we should expand that. >> we have to do more to -- do

what we can in the time we can and not just let it be about one day but that we keep going back so that we can refresh our memory. >> amen. >> you talked about broadening and in the christian calendar, ordinary time follows pentecost and some have changed ordinary time to growing time. >> good, good. thank you both. >> thank you. >> elmhurst is on? >> 1659 83r d avenue off of plymouth, right off the corner in the sunshine. >> and lakeshore? >> corner of lakeshore and man dana, on bus line 26. >> thank you for being with us. please join them in their worship services. and you are welcome to mine way out in fairfield at community. i'm ron swisher. great to have you this morning on pentecost.

♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to seeee ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c ♪ and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects include increased ketones in blood or urine, which can be fatal. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, trouble breathing, or increased ketones. jardiance may cause dehydration that can suddenly worsen kidney function and make you feel dizzy, lightheaded, or weak upon standing. genital yeast infections in men and women urinary tract infections, low blood sugar, or a rare life-threatening bacterial infection between and around the anus and genitals can occur. call your doctor right away if you have fever or feel weak or tired, and pain, tenderness, swelling or redness in the genital area. don't use if allergic to jardiance. stop use if you have a serious allergic reaction.

call your doctor if you have rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing. you may have increased risk for lower limb loss. call your doctor right away if you have new pain or tenderness, sores, ulcers or infection in your legs or feet. ♪ jardiance is really swell ♪ ♪ the little pill with a big story to tell ♪ >>good morning and thanks for starting your day with us. today is sunday, june 8th. i'm kelsi thorud. here's a look at what's happening today around the bay and in california. president trump is deploying 2000 california national guard troops to los angeles overhe