Skip to main content

tv   Mc Laughlin Group  PBS  April 3, 2011 3:30pm-4:00pm PDT

3:30 pm
3:31 pm
>> nato allies have decided to take on the whole military upright in libya, under the united nations security council resolution. nato will implement all aspects of the u.n. resolution, nothing more, nothing less. >> the libyan intervention was originally shouldered by coalition forces. the united states, france, and britain. this week the north atlantic treaty organization, nato, took over command, a canadian will
3:32 pm
head the mission. lieutenant general charles bouchard. canada and seven additional nations will now contribute air and or naval support. canada, seven c f-18 bombers. denmark, six f-16 fighter jets. greece, one frigate ship, four military bases. italy, 12 warplanes. norway, six f-16's, romania, one frigate. turkey, five warships, one submarine. the u.s., eight warships, three submarines, two guided missile destroyers, plus f-15 and f-16 fighter jets. non-nato nations also have offered jets. qatar, the united arab emirates, and sweden. when nato took control this week an official pled to the u.k. gaddafi's foreign secretary aka his secretary of state, moussa
3:33 pm
koussa. british foreign secretary william hague confirmed it thursday. >> the libyan foreign minister moussa koussa arrived at airport yesterday from that area. his resignation shows gaddafi's regime which has seen significant reductions is fragmented, under pressure and crumbling from within. >> secretary moussa koussa had worked for libya's foreign service for over 30 years. he was joined within hours by ally abdel salem trekki as the highest ranking officials in the gaddafi government to defect. trekki was libyan foreign minister in the 1970s and just finished his term as president of the united nations general assembly last september. question, has president obama stated a clear goal for libya and a clear exit strategy, pat buchanan? >> no, he has not john.
3:34 pm
he is all over the lot. initially we were told we were going in to protect civilians against purported atrocity about to happen in benghazi. so we attacked libyan soldiers and killed them in enormous numbers over a crime they had not yet committed. but the real objective here is regime change now. that's why you're firing cruise miss its at gaddafi's compound, killing his soldiers, that's why you're enraging the tribes, and they're the key to this, john. if they break with gaddafi, the two biggest tribes, if they break with him, he is a goner. and so the regime change is the objective the country has gotten, but it's going to take awhile forget there and it may take a lot more killing p. once you're there, what do you have? you have a libya which is no army, no government, and rebels can't win this war. they have the fastest retreat in history. i think the president has himself into something he doesn't know how we're going to
3:35 pm
get out. >> the president's goal is gaddafi must go. is that correct? >> well, it was a humanitarian mission at the outset, then there's a political goal embraced by the president and the president of france and prime minister of england who have all said the same things, gaddafi must go. and to accomplish that, by continuing to degrade gaddafi's military but more appropriately i think the cracks are coming in the regime and tripoli by the two defections that you cited, and while the rebels are red-tagged and i don't think they're going to be able to win on the ground, gaddafi's army is fourth rate at best, and i think that representatives of one of his sons was reportedly in london talking with a possible exit plan for the family. so i think this is a work in progress, and i think that it
3:36 pm
could end successfully. but it might not end any time real soon. and i think in the 24-7 cable news culture, the president will hear an awful lot of overwrought commentary about loss of stature and stalemates, so this is far from over. >> early on in this mission we heard from the president and secretary of defense robert gates that this mission would just take place over a series of days, not weeks. now it's weeks, not months. and i think any time a president goes out with this kind of prediction, that kind of prediction comes back to haunt presidencies. we're seen it over and over again. and i think what we're experiencing now is mission creep. and it's mission creep because initially it started as sort of a convoluted policy for humanitarian reasons, and now we have a full-on aerial to ground assault rather than strictly a no-fly zone. they talked early on about gaddafi must go. you can't have a successful end game to this mission unless gaddafi goes because there are two worst case scenarios.
3:37 pm
one is moammar gaddafi hangs on to power and welcomes end tredged in power. now we have a stalemate and engaged over the long haul. the second worst case scenario is that gaddafi does go, you go ate a power vacuum in libya to be filled by god knows what. we don't go know how it will end but over the last four years the main opposition to gaddafi has been the muslim brother he'd and over the last few years al-qaeda other groups have been operating in the eastern part of libya. so yes, there are some genuine reformers in the mixed bag of reb else's but if there's a power vacuum and nobody is prepared to guide this mission out of the current military operation, you could get a situation in libya far worse than what we had with moammar gaddafi. >> is there a lot of enthusiasm for regime change, ie gaddafi must go, among the, what, allies? >> well, if they are going to do anything at all about their principle mission as they stated, which was to protect a certain part of the population,
3:38 pm
the only way they can protect that part of the population over any period of time is for gaddafi to go. so to separate the two of them made no sense from the very beginning. and they all know that. the question is, how do you get gaddafi to go? if under what circumstances, how quickly, if you can? because we saw when the rebels have to retreat 100 miles in one day, they made one advance, and they were completely outmaneuvered and outgunned by gaddafi's forces, that you do not have a force on the ground that will be able to defeat gaddafi or his forces. so i think we're faced with that situation. if we want to do anything we've got to get rid of gaddafi. that will take more than what we have -- >> what it will take is more moussa leaving his command. if that happens he can't run a government. >> john -- >> he'll go or he'll be killed. >> if a tribal society, he's got a number of tribes to support him, they have no other place to go. i don't think so you can
3:39 pm
destroy -- >> what is the ends game? >> the only end game i can see is to find some way to get gaddafi out, and i don't see how we do that without -- >> john, there's another reason why he has to go. if you leave him in there, his method of fighting back is to blow up airliners over the atlantic ocean. you will have a terrorist in power with real reason to get us back in that fashion. secondly, this is a deeply triballized society, and gaddafi power base rest ons these tribes with him. that is why we're doing all this bombing, because we're destroying the assets and the people of these tribes who basically just want to retain what they've got if eventually if you break them, they will go and say you're got to get out of here because everything we've got is going up in flames. >> pat, the only way it can be engineered is by stripping him of his high command. if he is stripped of high command he won't be able to do much harm outside his own country. >> you can do that -- >> highway has a pro-gaddafi element in a society --
3:40 pm
>> high commander his sons and they may be convinced at some point we're going to die here, or we get out of here. >> is that a succession possibility? >> his sons aren't going to take over, they may leave with him! >> if he -- if he quits -- >> if he rae signs will the son take over? >> no, no! [everyone talking at once] >> this is the problem. there's nothing in place to take over and that's -- [everyone talking at once] >> where are the marines. >> the family is a package deal, and the sons are young and they want to live, and there are financial incentives and that's what the allies are counting on to and the the squeeze on gaddafi. >> all of the sons' bankroll has been taken along by the international community. they've been taken control of that. then another eligible for a dime right now. >> they had $35 billion in the united states alone. we have taken control of it. we're not talking petsee cash here. >> that includes the offspring. exit question, in libya has or
3:41 pm
pat buchanan? >> yes, he has, because he doesn't know the end game and the end game may require boots on the ground in libya, and whose boots will they be? >> another? >> i think he's handling it quite well. there may be boots on the ground, they will not be american boots. the allies will have to pony up for that if that's where this is headed. >> he seems very reluctant to talk about regime change, lest he look like president george w. bush but that's what we're engaged in here bus he knows that no-hitter outcome will be very band for the united states, but i don't think they're prepared for any of the outcomes, john. and this administration has not talked about libya in the greater context of what is going on in the broader middle east. >> what about nato just dropping a bomb right on gaddafi's compound? >> they did that. >> they've tried that. >> what do you mean they tried? >> yes, missile on his head. >> i'm talking about over the head flight. >> anything is possible. i don't think that that -- that
3:42 pm
happens in the international -- [everyone talking at once] >> he will not be letting you know where he is sleeping from night to night. >> is libya a sovereign state? >> yes, of course it is. >> at what point dog barack obama have so seek a declaration of war? >> that's a good question. quoted we're near that. >> you don't? >> new york i don't. >> at what point does i have to cross before he -- anticipating he has to get a declaration? >> my recollection is he 4 something like 30 or 60 days -- >> 60 days. >> but this was is an attack on a country that didn't attack us, didn't threaten us. he's fighting illegal and unconstitutional war but congress -- and congress will not stand up to him except for people like -- >> he's not doing he's not doin previous presidents did when they engaged in this sort of limited military action, and he's u.n. sanctioned, so you
3:43 pm
can scream all you want, unauthorized war. it's legal grounds. >> you can't get away with assassinating the head of state of a -- sovereign state without a declaration of war. >> oh, no! >> they're going to do it. 92 [everyone talking at once] >> they will do it. >> reagan tried to do it. >> and he got his daughter issue two, the really to be wrong. ♪ ♪ >> we've got to get past this squabbling over the federal budget for this fiscal year. that just a squabble. >> republicans and democrats continue to squabble this week over the 2011 fiscal budget. the federal government is running outs of temporary spending bill, which will expire on april 8, next friday. if democrats and republicans don't reach an agreement by
3:44 pm
then, that will lead to a federal government shutdown, the first shutdown in 15 years. the parties have squabbled overspending cuts, how deep and what to cut. the white house this week said both parties now agree on the first question -- how deep? $33billion deep. white house press secretary jay carney is optimistic. >> we believe that there is ample reason to be optimistic, that common ground can be found, as long as all sides get to work. >> but the tea party says the spending cuts are not enough. house tea party caucus leader michelle back man wants the bill to include language to defund obama care. if obama care is not de funded bachman says, she will not vote to pass the whole multi- trillion dollar budget that keeps the federal government
3:45 pm
running. and repeat, chairwoman bachman heads the tea party caucus. >> i will not because i'm going to fight on this issue, because the american people want us to. 62% of the american people, more than in any other time for since obama care pato get rid o >> question, in addition to removing all funds, to implement obama care, what else does the g.o.p. want defunded in this budget? eleanor? >> they want to defund planned parenthood, public radio, pell grants, and the u.s. institute of peace. and they're especially interested in attaching a rider that would render neutral various epa requirements. actually, that one may survive because a lot of democrats don't like those requirements as well. but obama care is not going to defunded. that one will not survive. and i think planned parenthood, public radio and pell grants will be fine as well.
3:46 pm
and i think the u.s. institute of peace limps along. and michelle bachman won't vote for the final touch and the caulk us and house isn't that big some they can yell and scream i think the -- the guys have made a deal on capitol hill and the tea party will be great. >> look, $33 billion is basically two percent of the deficit, and it's one percent of the budget this year, $1.65 trillion deficit. but you're getting about as much as they can get unless they want to shut down the government. i think they have to accept that and the tea party folks have to be happy, but you get two more bites of the apple, the big budget for 2012, and you get the -- debt ceiling. >> are you saying that our current accounts deficit, current accounts deficit, it $1.65 trillion? >> it is. the budget deficit for this year. >> ending when? >> september 30th. >> what is the public debt.
3:47 pm
>> the public debt is different from the -- >> how much is the public debt? >> national debt is $14 trillion. >> billion? >> public debt is 10 trillion. the national debt is 14. because part of the debt is held over there by the social security trust funds, and it's just an accounting thing. >> what is the real tote until. >> public debt is the important one, that's $10 trillion, that's what you go bankrupt for. >> there's an additional 6 trillion on top of that. >> 4 trillion in west virginia. >> that's the size of our collective debt. does that cause you any pain or suffering? >> pain or suffering? of course it will cause the country -- it will have a huge cost to the country, and in not too many years, because we are going to have to raise interest rates in order to continue to funds these deficits, and rising interest rates will affect the entire economy and everybody standard of living. we're living on the edge of a precipice here and everybody who understands fiscal economics knows how bad it is!
3:48 pm
>> it grows by what it feeds on. >> yes, it's compounds itself. we have done nothing better weapon have a larger fiscal deficit than in the history of the country and we're doing -- >> political system that doesn't work. >> this is why when you talk about a $1.65 trillion annual deficit, a $14 trillion national debt that grows by the day, when you talk about these numbers, cutting 33 billion or 60 billion, these are very paltry sums. look, the conservatives -- >> paltry sums to cut. >> just a spit in the bucket. but here's the key. paul ryan, the republican chairman of the house budget committee, on tuesday is going to unveil the republican proposal forts 2012 budget. that includes serious non- defense spending cuts, tax reform and serious structural entitlement reforms. that's the conversation that we should be having. >> okay. let's take a look at this more since you're so good at the numbers.
3:49 pm
the good news -- the unemployment rate is down to 8.8% from 8.9%, 216,000 new jobs in march. more good news, item market up the dow nearing 12,500, the highest in nearly two years. personal income up 0.3%. the bad news, item, consumer confidence down almost 9 points. item, home sales down 16.9%. 51,000 44 homes sold in february. item, home prices down, 13.9%. the shoppers one month drop on record. you want to address yourself to the real estate? >> yes, i'll address myself to a lot of these numbers bus even the good news, you have to look in the context of the most stimulateddive policy we've had in this country and this is the most anemic recovery even in those numbers we've ever had coming out of recession. and with the key numbers, namely, the weakness in the consumer spending, weakness in the housing market, the weakness in con view. er confidence, we're still looking a little a very weak
3:50 pm
economy, despite the largest fiscal deficit in the most stimulative monetary policy in this country. now, the relationship of household debt to household income, which is around 70 to 80%, and has been that way until this last couple years, went to 136%. household debt way overshadowed household income. it's now down to 117% tom get it down to tolerable levels we have have another deleveraging of $67 trillion, keeping the economy slow. >> we're in recession l it be double dip, yes or no? only one word. >> issue three, barack tweets. >> lets me say that i have never used twitter. my thumbs are too clumsy. >> president obama claims and claimed over a year ago to be a
3:51 pm
poor tweeter. but the president has certainly educated those thumbs. only lady gaga, justin bieber, the canadian teenage pop sensation, and britney spears have bigger twitter audiences than barack obama's 7 million followers. that puts the president in fourth place, directly ahead of ashton kutcher. the president is not only popular, but influential. according to twitterizer, a company specializing in social media, the president ranks as the 7th most influential tweeter anywhere. that means the president is frequently mentioned in twitter conversations, and his tweets are retweeted by other tweeters. the 2008 obama campaign used twitter as a key component of their social media strategy. it helped raise over ha billion dollars online.
3:52 pm
president obama sent out about 1600, what, tweets. >> i think that's overdoing t but go ahead. >> what do you mean, overdoing it? i'm telling you. >> they should lose -- he's not a valuable political weapon but should use it more selectively, but ice an extremely valuable weapon. you can gets that many small messages into people's minds once or twice a we can into a campaign it's very effecti. >> the culture puts out -- they tweet dozens of times a day. that's not an excessive amount of tweeting and he has people do it for him, pat. he's getting on the his message in a very effective way. >> whose money is being used -- >> one every his problems is to get his speeches down to 140 characters. believe they! so this is not his strength. >> she says he's got people that are doing -- >> of course. >> tweeting for him. >> of course. >> and my question is, whose money is paying for that, the taxpayers' money?
3:53 pm
>> would you hope so. >> sure, they work in the white house. like getting out his message. >> well, let's see now -- >> tweet background policies. >> we give that as communications director in the white house. we sent it by mail, though. the sending out the president's message, the talking points, all these things we would get them out. >> who says he is doing that? >> he's getting his message out. what else is he doing? >> look, i just started tweeting last week, a little late to the party i know. but please follow me on twitter. i've referenced him with his -- >> why don't we put him on notice to keep his eye open for has tweets? >> he should. maybe he'd learn something! this is very effective. this is something obama used during the 2008 campaign. he was on facebook, he was on twitter. he got to the kids and students that way. with john mccain was cap paining in smoke signals. the republicans have a lot of work to do to get up to par in using this new media to get their message out.
3:54 pm
and it grows exponentially. >> one group for obama retained a lot of political support. >> he's among young people, right. >> why would someone want to puts up their name to receive -- and become one every his followers? >> they might like the president. >> right. >> what about a sense of importance? >> yeah, and you get a tweet from the president of the united states? that's why i say he shouldn't overuse it because everybody will know his owner is not doing it. >> you don't think it's ego on the part of the person who wants to be tweeted by the president? >> no, people need to get communicated to by the president of the united states. >> yes, it's ego! >> i like the presidential plane, didn't you, john? >> i get tweeted by my creditors. >> his online fans fans will learn when he officially announces going to be very effective. >> he's got 7 million followers. >> not as many as lady gaga, who just crossed the 9 million
3:55 pm
mark. >> that's what i aspire, to 9 million. >> justin benicia has more. >> he has about 8 million. >> what a john. >> justin bieber? >> he has a following with younger girls the likes of which you have not seen since -- absolutely. >> so you know the scene. >> i'm another one of those canadians who have a lot of young predictions, pat. >> i think american bombing in airstrikes will force gaddafi out by memorial day. but i do think that chaos and results and killings back and forth will cause europe and the united states to have to intervene militarily and put boots on the grounds. >> where will gaddafi go? >> i think they're going to try to kill him. >> if they don't kill him, where will he go? >> i think zimbabwe is a nice place. >> peacekeepers on the ground after libya -- after gaddafi leaves i think is not a bad outcome and that's a good outcome. i think turkey will step up and become more of a dominant player in the -- evolving
3:56 pm
middle east, as a secular islamic democracy. and i think they become the role model for the emerging government in that area. >> you notices how they're moving in latin america, turkey. monica. >> a few weeks ago the new intelligence chief in egypt, who is parts of the new interim government, paid a very kuwait visit to damascus, syria. this looks like the new egyptian government where the muslim brotherhood is running the show is trying to reach out to hamas and hezbollah. >> we will i think underwrite the only solution to libya, they'll divide the country in two and protect the country with us, until we see what other ways we can find to get gaddaf
3:57 pm
3:58 pm
3:59 pm


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on