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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  January 19, 2012 12:00pm-1:00pm PST

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. >> rose: welcome to our program. we begin this ening as nsions rise betweenhe united states and iran with iran' ambassador to the united nations mohammed khazaee. >> if you want to create problems in the persian gulf of course it would be the right of tehran as well as the rest of the countries in the region to try to defend themselves, so in my view, if you ask me, the iranian strategy is not to close the strait of hormuz, but naturally, any nation if it's under serious threats by foreign powers, to, they will defend
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themselves. >> rose: we conclude this evening with the author of many sports books, the writer john feinstein and his new book called one on one. >> i realize with all of the books that i had done that i met so many different characters through the years beyond, whether dean smith or mike she chef ski or tigerçó woods or anybody you wanted to name and a lot of people not as famous as those guys i found fascinating, why not go back and talk to some of them and tell some stories i haven'told before about my relationships with some of these pele because i always kept myself out of the books. >> rose: khazaee and feinstein when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose s provided by the following.
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>> rose: additional funding provided by these funders. >> and byloomberg, a provider of mulmedia and news and information services worldwide.
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>> from our studios inew york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin tonight with a growing tensions over iran's nuclear program and other conflicts it has with a number of countries, last week another nuclear scientist in iran was assassinated, at least four other scientists with throirchtion the nuclear program have been killed since 2007, iranians officials say they have evidence the united states and israel are responsible. the latest incident comes as major western powers increase economic sanctions to isolate iran from the international financial system. iran has responded with a threat to block the strait of hormuz which could send the price of oil soaring if it happens. iran continues to insist the nuclear program is for peaceful purposes. >> now joining us is mohammed khazaee, he is ambassador to the united states and i am pleased to have him back at our table. mr. ambassador, welcom
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>> thank you, it is my pleasure toe here again, charlie. > >> rose: tell me what is goingçñ on between ira and the united states and what seems to be increasing the tension and increasinghe threats so th iran says if you encourage sanctions against the export of oil then we may block thetrait of hormuz and en the secretary of defenseays, that is a red line and we are not going to stanfor that an -- >> thank you. that's a very important question. first of all, i would like to say that the iranian policy is not confrontation with any country and as far as the strait of hormuz and the persian gulf is concerned, we believe that the strait of hormuz should be the strait of peace and stability. >> rose: and open? >> and open. and there is no decision to
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block and close the strait of hormuz. unless iran is threatened seriously, and somebody wants to tighten the noose. >> rose: what would you characterize as a serious threat? >> we have been trying to work with our neighbors in the region to maintain as i mentioned the peace and stability in the persian gulf, especially for the strait of hormuz which is in the benefit of iran and its neighbors and the who world. but if foreign powers want to create trouble in the persian lf, of course, it would be the right of try, iran as ll as the rest of the countries in the region to t to defend themselves so in my view, if you a me the
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iranian strategy is not to close the strait of hormuz. but naturally, any nation if it is under serious threats by foreign powers, they will defend themselves. >> rose: what would be a provocation that might even lead you to consider that and if you consider that, have you considered how extreme would be the reactio from countries that have much more power than iran does? >> it is -- to judge and i am sure enough wise politicians around the world to understand that the peace and dialogue and negotiation and stability is much better than confrontation. so wrong it is going to happen, but what i was trying to say is that we have to reserve the right for any nation to defend itself if it is necessary, which is te for the united states, which is true for every other
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country around the world, and since our policy is not any kind of confrontation with anybody around the world, so we do not see an extreme measure to take at this moment and we hope it will not happen at all. >> rose: there is also this. there was this threat and i want your point of view of this. >> yes. >> rose: the threat against the saudi ambassador in washington, which some people in conversation with me cite as an example of the iranian regime's consideration of tactics that are unacceptable. what can you tell us when you have denied it but there were people that have identified that have relationships with the iranian government? >> first of all, you know, the case is not in court yet, and nothing has been proven. second, this is not the way iranians work to assassinate or
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to kill an ambassador of a neighboring country, a muslim country, in the capital of the united states in washington, this is a very unwise thing to do for anybody. so, definitely, immediately as soon as we heard the news, we reject it and we denied it, and then we started to find out who is the other guy that his name was mentioned in the court indictment. we found out he has been under -- we asked to fin this guy if such a guy exists and we found his passport number, we found out he has been in chicago. heas been in iraq, and then we gave the information to the interpol. >> rose: leading you to what conclusion? >> what conclusion that the whole issue is a plot against the islamic republic of iran, rather than being a plot against the saudi arabia arabian ambassador in washington, d.c.
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>> rose: with what ends? >> to show that the iranian are terrorists to show they support terrorist activities and so on. the whole case is based on information that they received, either from -- or the agent that they had. >> rose: what is interesting about it is clearly the department took it seriously. >> i think the result at the end of the day would be embarrassment for those who took it seriously, but i would like to mention something, you suppose that information is based on some tephone conversation as we heard it, which we have not bee given any or provided any real and concrete information what we have and what we received, as i said in the united nations meeting, just a court inctment and that is it. but even if it is based on some conversation between the guy here and a guy it was said in
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iran that we really do not know who was on the other le of the phone but unfortunately if we really want to go into these issues we have to look at the statementshat were made here in the united states by a very prominent figure of ts country. for example, i have, i brought with me here the statement that was made by senator gingrich, the. >> rose: the former speaker of the house gingrich. >> the former speaker of the house. the statement made by one of the -- and other, president obama, signed by three congressmen. so, you know, this kind of a statement are more dangerous than relying on a telepho conversation that was reported by a car dealer or something like that ory, you know, a covert agent, which in our view is baseless. we try to find out the truth. we couldn't find such guys or
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such a guy in the iranian revolutionary guard, so, therefore, we reject it, and as we have always said we condemn any kind of terrorist activities anywhere in the world, and i think the history of iran and the, it is clean, there is killing in other countries that you and i know. >> it is about where is this relatiship? and what is necessary in order t avoid the tension that is building,, you know, and to try to get away from this and pull back from it that is really the issue here, to pull back from the abyss but there are these other things that complicate it, for example there is the feeling that iran is supplying syrians with weapons and that syrians are friends of iran and iran suppts president abbas and what he -- and president as sad, bashir as sad in terms of what he is doing, there is a queion as to whether the iranian
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government .. and some of its allied forces are supporting some of the forces in iraq that have attacked americans as part of their withdrawal and would like to see increasing tensions between shiites and sunnis. there are all of these things that certainly is hezllah and hamas. >> you raise many important issues. >> rose: yes. they are all true? >> which needs a lot of time to explain, but i will try to be very brief in just a few minutes. you know, charlie, on the syrian issue, we follow our principles. the first point is that we believe that govnments should listen to their people. we have made it clear, we have saidt, my minister said it, the president said it and others
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that -- we say this with syria, we say this for bahrain and for imam and we say it for others. this is the first principle that we follow. and, you know, we take an example from that. second, we do not and weave not sent any arms to syria, but if you look at the news and. >> rose: no ar to syria, the united states doesn't believe that to be true. >> and we believe and we have some evidences that arms have been sent by some european countries, in particular, france, to syria, to support th militia groups and opposition groups against president arizona sad. >> as saddam hussein. >u should believe is the issues within syria should be solved wean the government and its people, the government should listen to the people. >> rose: you say that but in the meantime the government are killing a lot of their own citizens as you know, as is
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happening -- >> based on the information we have, there are many syrian people that are killed by the militia groups, so whatever is happening there, is not our business to determine or to say that the government should stay or should go. >> rose: but there is another muslim country by the name of qatar whose prime minister has called for an ay to go into syria onhe side of the forces -- >> it is a free world. each country can have their own views and those issues on those matters so we cannot say -- >> rose: the arab league, turkey -- >> but you have some other countries that they disagree with that, russia, for instance, iran. >> rose: my point -- well, i am talki about countries in the regi who are islamic countries. >> we are not here to discuss the position of other countries, about syria. you asked me about the position of iran i will say the position of iran. >> rose: work it out. >> work it out, and the problem
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should be solved within the syrian government and the people and the government should listen to the people. >> rose: the conventional wisdom, it is conventional wisdom that if in fact the syrian government falls of bashir assad, iran will have lost its best ally. >> and then what? >> and they would be weaker and one less friend in the world because there would be a government in syria will be in flux, in play, nobody knows what it will look like and may be a better friend of iran but most likely it will not be as good a friend as you have now. >> in general, what is going down in the region is not hampering the privilege or the influence of iran, but it is vice versa. >> rose: do you think -- >> iran's influence and power have -- >> we are not -- we are not -- we are not in the position to be worried about what is going on in the region within the other
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countries. what we see is that we are finding more friends in the region, because the inference of iran is not based on the friendship between governments. the influence of iran is based on the kind of beliefs that exist in other nations and countries, vis-a-vis iran and also the relations that we have. so we do not look at that in that way. we do not believe that changes in some governments may affect negatively iran or so on. so again, i will try to relate that any foreign intervention in syria is n productive, is not constructive and we have to let -- >> rose: but that is the argument that iran has made a foreign intervention by supporting assad with an increased flow of weapons to him. that's an intervention on the side of the government. >> do you think that intervention of other countries in the region, of foreigners is
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not higher than what is proposei or what is imaspoliticians here? >> rose: wl nato is not there. >> but other countries interfere with other regs in the country. i don't want to make this conversation about -- >> rose: let me speak to this. >> yes, please. >> rose: when is the conflict over? the inspection and the iaee wanting to come in and inspt or allowing the shipment of enriched fuel or fuel that will be enriched outside ofñi iran, is that an idea that is alive? >> yes. and where is it? >> as you know, the negotiation between iran and -- will resume and more likely to take place, in wherever is going to be agreed and we do not have any
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problem for inspection under the t's relions and requirements. we do not have any problem with that. we have announced we are ready to engage in serious talks with five plus one on the issues, even if you remember, this is a comment i would like make here. even if you remember when president ahmadinejad was here, he clearly and mcly an annnced we are hoping and we areeady to receive whatever we need for tehran, which you know they radioisotopes for patients and so on, and in that case if we make sure we can receive what we need as we said before we will be ready to seriously consider stopping production of 20 percent enriched uranium, but unfortunately, this suggestion was not paid attention enough by -- >> rose: by the united nations. >> not by the united nations, even by five plus one.
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>> rose: okay. there is also this, that -- >> i'm sorry. it shows that we have good intention to solve this misunderstanding and this problem if the other side is serious, so i would like to officially here mak it clear that we are ready for serious negotiation on the nuclear issue, removing suspicion, and also having lat we immediate for tr because we have about 1 million cancer patients we cannot just wait anymore. >> rose: what kind of commication is going on between iran and the united states? >> >> rose: are there any back channels? >> in other words, are there people speaking to your government in tehran who somehow can represent the point of view of the united states government? >> not negotiate, not negotiate, but represent the point of view and vice versa? >> as you know very well, that i
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personally, or president ahmadinejad on foreign affairs we normally have some talks and friendly discussion or with prominent members of think tanks here in the united states so, therefore, the ideas couldbe conveyed through that, but it is not an official one, of course as you say. but you know that the secure channels at have been in place for many years is the emssy in tehran, whenever there is a necessity, realized by the u.s. government or by the iranian government, notes or messages have been conveyed through that channel, so the way of communication this way has not been blocked wean the two cotries, and it should not be blocked because sometimes it is necessary to communicate some messages or some letters or something like that. and as far as other back chanls that you sa i am not
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are of those bk channels or -- >> rose: are you saying they are not there? >> i am not suggestin that they are not there, but if you ask me whom or where, i cannot identify themight now, because, you know, everybody can claim that they cash i am the back channel which i don't think so. >> rose: there have been reports that ira is moving its enrichment process into more secure, safer underground locations. >> uh-huh. >> rose: is that true? >> yes, it is true. >> rose: why are you doing that? >> but it is not because iran is going to do something secret or illegal. basically, it is for the safety of people, and when a country is threatened to be attacked by some higher u.s. officials as israeli officis and others, so whato you do if you are in the iranian shoes? it is the normal thing. it doesn't mean, i would like to again make it clear it doesn't
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mean we are innding to do something illegal and, again, as you know and we have discussed before, iranians do not intend and did not intend and will not intend to haveñr a weaponation program and making bombs .. it is not the iranian policy. >> rose: that is interesting because here is my point. >> yes, please. >> when narzani was here, we had an interesting conversation in which he seemed to suggest not that iran wanted to develop a bomb, but that iran wanted to be like japan, the conventional wisdom here is that japan has the capability of developing a bomb in a short period of time, meaning it has sufficient enriched fuel that is necessary to make a bomb in a short amount of time. is that what iran wants? the capacity? not to develop it, but the capacity to develop it? that's a vy clear question.
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>> thank you. and the clear answer is, i did not understood what you said th way. and i can tell you, frankly, and officially, that we do not intend to do anything to making any nuclear weapon or nuclear bomb. >> rose: i am not asking whether you are intending to make the bomb. i want to, i want to ask if you want to develop the capacity. >> we are not going to develop the capacity to be able to make any weapon of mass deinstruction or bomb, nuclear bomb. >> rose: whi brings us full circle then why don't you let the floodgates and open the questions and come on in. >> come in. it is open. >> rose: no. >> it is open based on the -- and not more than that. >> rose: you will come in and stop and won't let them in and won't let them go here. >> something like that, you are right, because then the question .. of israelis comes through, about other countries they have, blah, blah, blah which we don't
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want to get into those discussions. the clear point is, the clear point is that iranians are not asking for more than what they think is their right. and we have been working with mpt and iaea based on that and we will continue to work and this is is way we act. so i think -- >> is it your opinion, the opinion of the extreme leader, the opinion of the president, the opinion of the military leaders that h they would do it? >> what. >> rose: bomb the facilities in iran? >> >> are you secure in the knowledge that you don't think they would do that if, in fact, they believe you are about to have that capacity? >> in this world, nothing is impossible, but we don't think that such kind of crazy action that could result in difficult
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stabilizing, you know, destabilizing problem .. in the region will happen, because ere are enough wise politicians around the world to advise them in case they want to do tt, not to do it. so, therefore, we don't think that it is going to happen. >> rose: it seems to me that when you threaten to bomb -- to undermine package through the rait of hormuz that the united states and others, the european ion send a clear signaif you do that there it would be viewed as a provocation and a response. correct? didn't you read it that way? >> provocation by iranians? >> the united states for one and others would consider it a provocation if you tried to prevent flow of oil through the strait of hormuz. >> the question is first of all that why iran should do that. >> rose: why they should try
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to stop -- >> why iran should close the strait of hormuz. >> rose: it was not somebody else who proposed it it came out of your government as a threat. >> yes. actually, the government officially did not say it. >> rose: who said it? >> some literary people in iran. >> rose: is that not the government >> in that case, it is nothe government. if you want to speak like that, gingrich is not a powerful government -- >> rose: wait a minute. girich is a politician who has no office and running for president. you are saying a military official is part of the government. >> i am ng if you want to get into discussions, fortunately i brought with you his statements that they are a part of the system of the united states. >> rose: no. believe me, believe me -- >> maybe i do not know. maybe i do not know. >> rose: that scares me because if you believe that is true then you have a limited understanding of america now. newt gingrich, a man who is running for president, a man who had a record in congress, and rows to the most powerful
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position in congress has no power. >> members of congress as well. >> charlie -- >> i have been -- >> rose: the president of the united states is the commander in chief. >> exactly. >> rose: the military reports to the commander in chief. >> okay. >> rose: they don't report to newt gingrich. >> you are saying, the same thing goes for tire ran, the leader of iran is the leader. >> rose: you say the military threatened that. it may have come from the military -- then why didn't the extreme leader -- why didn't he -- >> the sfreenl leader has not made any statement on this issue and he does not react on any statements made by any -- >> rose: the threat about the closing the investigates -- >> it has not come so far from the suprem extreme leader. >> rose: why do you say so far. >> up to this point. >> rose: anything else you witñiwant to say about where ths stand from your perspective, the reality is how you see the world and how we see the world.
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>> what i would like to conclude in this few minutes is that iron wraps have been trying to respect other nations, we are t definitely going to create any threats for other nations, our neighbors, through making a nuclear bomb or something like that. we are not trying to make any confrontation, but at the same time, we reserve the right for iranians, if they are being threatened, so they can defend themselves. >> rose: every nation reserves the right to defend itself. nobody is gointhe argue with that. >> exactly. and we believe that iran has a great infence in the region, we have a great reason to cooperate with others for the stability and peace in the region, as we have been doing so in afghanistan, in iraq, there are many issues in the region that iran can help a lot and ve been helping, you
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know like fighting extremists and so on so i think rather than talking all the time about killing each other and bombing each other and so on, so there are other ways that civilized nation accounts ta to each other other than the rhetoric. >> rose: okay. there is also this. and tell me whether it made any difference at all. the united states have rescued iranian sailors. >> and we appreciate it. >>ose: and say so? >> yes we said so. >> rose: not the extreme leader but the government, i think? >> the government, i think, clearly, yes. they announced it and said it and it was recognized by the u.s. government as well. >> rose: does that kind of act, does that kind of gesture help? >> of course. this kind of gesture helps. there is no doubt about it. >> rose: where will you help the united states to suggest good faith on the part of the iranians? >> obviously the ship thing was an incident that happened and any person would have done that
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to help someone in that circumstance, you would hope, you would hope the iranians would do that for the united states and the united states wod do that for iran. there is no doubt about that. >> rose: exactly. but where is it you would say to us, this is where we are your -- we have a shared interest and we are not trying to undermine you at every step? first of all, we have to define interests. >> and that is important and your interests are not necessarily our interests. you have a sphere of influenc >> we may argue about interests, but, but, but regardless of those definitions, thereare many areas ofntert, and common interests, regardless of the legitimacy of those interests or not, but there are many iues as i mentioned. for example, the cooperation between iran and the united states brought the karzai government to power. do not forget that.
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we also said several times and it was going -- >> rose: the karzai government, you said? >> yes. >> in afghanistan you remember that. so it was anexample of cooperatio between iran and the united states as well as a couple of heotr players. >> we have said -- the stability is something that both countries can cooperate with the iraq government that is going through and so on. >> rose: and it won't take that much more of your time, is that there are many people in the pentagon who believe that iran and some forces in others try to undermine the united states and create trouble. >> thank you for saying that. look, crlie, i may also make many statements against this and that. we have to look this the reality on the ground.
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both of us have been supporting the same government in iraq, isn't that true? >> rose: yes. >> really, with the influence and power that iran has, if really iran wanted to create problem, either inafghanistan or in iraq, we would have done so. >> what would you have done? >> shall iñr explain here in frt of the camera what iran is capable to do that? > >> rose: yes. >> we did not do that. we did not do that. and we have not received except some rumors or somethiike that or some small incidents, we have not received any complaint, as far as i am informed, and i know, that, okay, iranians did this or iranians did this in iraq against the iraqi forces or american forces and so on and so on. you know, look, the intention is important. if two nations are going to make friendship and have cooperation, have a better relation, they may
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find many reasons to do that, especially for -- in ouregion. if the intention is to create problem and fight, you can find many reasons to do that. we may complain a lot about the united states behavior within the last 64, 74 years, iranian as a victim of policies and so on, you know i don't want to mention it here and also u.s. may say okay you did this and that. the main parti that, okay, who is going to benefit from any confrontation in the region? is it to our benefit? definitely iranians are not looking for that. we have the experience of eight year war with iraq, of course we learned a lot as well,ut is it in the benefit of the united states and american nion and taxpayers and so on? of course it is not. is it in the benefit of the neighboring countries in the persianulf? of course it is not. so why we should not find a way to solve the problems through
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mutual respect, understanding each other? >> rose: and suggest a new idea for me and we will close hohow to do that. >> first of all, in my view i think that the united states should realize that the iranians have been victimized for the last more than half a century. is vrn very important. they are taking actual step to remove such impression were the iranian mind. i am not only thinking about the government. the iranian nation is very important, the iranian nation are very sophisticated and very educated people with a long history of resistance -- >> rose: the president of the united states has expressed clearly his respect for iran's culture, iran's history, and the legitimate ambitions of the iranian government.
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>> yes, i know th. is it enough? we have sd the same thing. >> rose:his is to be continued. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you, mram bass door. >> thank you so much. >> rose: john 9 sign, feinstein is here, one of the wisest sports journalist around he rose to prominence as the author of a season on the ring, that book was a candid account of the basketball program in indiana university and bobby knight, since then he made a career of gaining insight into some of sports most compelling figures and writes about those experiences and more in one-on-one, behind the scenes with the greats in the game. i am pleased to have him back at this table welcome. >> thanks, charlie, good to be here. >> i amerrific. >> rose: what led you to write this, and because there was a sense that you were going to do something else first and then -- >> i always that that at some point in my life i would go back to the characters from season on the bri, i would go back and
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see all of the players and coaches, many i stayed close to and end the book by knocking on boknight's door and saying it has been 25 years if you want to lk, but as i got closer to that 25th anniversary it occurr to me that most of the guys who are part of that book had gone on to very successful lives, some were doctors and businessmen and some were still in basketball, it wasn't like boys of summer that had the bittersweet quality of lives hadn't gone on the way they once hoped it would an i realid with all of the books i had done, that i met so many different characters through the years, beyond season on the brink, whether dean smith or mike she chef ski or tiger wood or john mcenroe, or joe torre or anybody you wanted to name and a lot of not as famous as those guys i found fascinating, why not go back and talk to some of them and tell some stories i haven't told before about my relationship .. with some of these people because i always kept myself out of the books. i figurehey want to know about
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bobby knight and not me but sometimes your interactions with people can be very revealing about those people so i took that approach, and that is what produced one on one. >> rose: okay. just for the record, have you in a mild-mannered and mr. knight made up?. >e have reached a point of civility would be the best way to put it. when i did my red auerbach book he was great i talked to him for two hours because he loved red and he was very happy to talk to me about red, now a couple of years ago, at a banquet in army, where mike she chef ski was being induct good the army basketball hall of fame i had to introduce knight because i was the emcee and going to give the inthe you can shun speech for mike and in introducing him i said, all-time winningest college basketball coach which he was at the time, hall of famer, member of the army hall of fame and most impornt the man who built my house, bob didn't think that was funny. >> rose: i am sure he didn't. >> everybody in the room think it was but he didn't think that was particularly funny. >> rose: how is he today? because he was there for coach k
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when he won and passed his record. >> i think he is fine. i think he enjoys the fact that he still gets lot of attention from doing television bob is like a lot of public figures he doesn't want to give up the stage and he still gets on the stage d gets great respect, espn re, you had to wear a jacket and tie and now it is a sweater and put his partner in a sweater so people quote unquote don't notice everybody is in a sweater so i think he is enjoying himself i think it killed him that mike broke his record. >> rose: really? >> yes. >> rose: he wants the best for mike? >> no it wasn't personal against mike, they didn't speak for nine years as we know, but i think th it s more -- it is a matter of ego, and if you were watching, i watched the tape of the telecast after that game and toward the end of the game, dan schulman doing play by play said, very good question i thought, bob, on the night you went past dean smith, in the
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last couple of minutes, when it was apparent duke was going to win that night how did you feel when you realized you were going to be the winningest coach of all-time and knight said, you know, dan, i didn't really think much about being the winningest coach of all-time but being the first coach to 900, now why did he say that? because nobody c take that away from him, she chef ski can win 1,000 games and he was the first one to 900, that is bob. >> rose: i want to go back to you, this is the part about you and what you experienced, you came outf the washington post. >> when i graduated from duke i got an internship at the post. >> rose: i saw you went directly to the post and influenced by wdward. >> tremendously. >> rose: what have you developed, what has woodward and others taught you? >> well, one thing the taught you is that you don't have to be bob knight night or tiger woods .. or any other famous person you want to mention to have a great story to tell. a lot of the stories that take place at two with and 3:00 o'clock in the morning do not
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involve famous people. occasionally they do but most often they don't. >> rose: if they did it is a headline. >> if it is on the front page you are right but you remember water fate was a police story, that's how it began, a break-in. >> rose: that's why woodward and bernstein were assigned, metro. >> bob was nine months at the paper and he was worked so hard on his story he never bothered to turn them in, and what bob taught me was that there is one who is as important, there is anybody can have a story to tell, anybody can be that source that gets you your story, i mean, the way he met deep throatyou know, he was deliveringomething when he was still in the navy and he happened to encounter this guy in someone's office. you never ow when yo are going to meet somebod who is going to have a story to tell or who is going to be a source. the other thing, you know, the iche in newspaper rings, but i learned it from bob when i was at the post is, always make the
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extra phone call, because you never know which phone call is going to be the breakthrough call. >> rose: i talked to him the other -- about a week ago, i mean a month ago, and he told me a story, getting up and he couldn't get somebody's side of a story and refused to call, he called and written them e-mail and called their friends, no, no, no, he knew where they lived. so at 64 years old, he got in his car, he drove out to the house and knocked on the door and he said, hi, i am bob woodward i el really would love ten minutes and he said you have come all the way out here. lasted twor three hours. and it was a great story. and then he said here i am at 64 still doing that. >> right. >> rose:. >> that is why bob is the best. >> rose: exactly. >> and the other thing about bob is, whenever i sit down and talk to h, i always want to learn from him, but he is always asking me questions, how do you do this? what do you think about that? and i still remember on the tenth anniversary of watergate, he and karl were on nightline, and at
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the end ted koppel askedthem eachhat the story meant to them personally, and karl's answer was well et gave me faith in the constitution and the role of the fourth estate and bob said, you know, with my midwestern accent of his, you know, it was a great learning experience as a reporter. >> rose: yes. >> i am thinking he broke the greatest story o all-time and said it was a great learning experience but that is bob woodward. >> rose: and he continues. >> he continued to learn. >> rose: it is different today. it is different today. >> totally. >> rose: why? >> well, because the world has changed, and when i first got in the business, for one thinge were all using typewriters. >> rose: yes. >> but beyond that. >> rose: electric, probably. >> you could just go, i still have my mother's select trick typewriter you could walk in the locker room and nobody stocked you .. >> ther there weren't interviews with corporate logos and no internet and guys didn't communicate through the web site, through twitter and
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commercials. >> i still remember 20 years ago the first sign of the apocalypse coming in reporting for me was i was talking to andre agassi's agent and at that time agassi would only talk to the media in post match press conferences and would not do any one on one's with anybody except one minute tv interview after a match and i said doesn't andre owe the public me, it is the public that makes him rich and famous and he looked at me, the late bill shelton and says we communicate to the public through our commercials, we don't need you. and he was right. because tiger woods image was mpletely creed by the commercials hedid. i mean, he is a gat golfer but his image as the nice guy we were so stunned to learn wasn necessarily accurate on november 27, 2009 was created by commercials. >> rose: didn't know it before then. >> no if i claimed i knew it, i would be a liar. >> rose: did most report whores cover golf more intently than you do, did they know him. >> no. it is. >> rose: it is not a question of reporters knowing the story
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and not telling it in a way that a long time reporters protected president kennedy? >> no this was different because tiger i so insular and lives in an insular world he has few friends among the players. i asked the players did you have any inkling the only one he had was he spent a lot of time in vegas, a young guy marry guy with kids and went to vegas a lot of guys go to, a lot of married guys go to vegas a lot, so those who said they had a suspicion i don't think told the uth because i think he did an unbelievable job of keeping it a secret ultimately to his detriment. >> rose: is he going to be back? >> in players or in terms of his image. >> rose: both. >> as a player, yes. i have been proven wrong already because i believed he would win another major within a year of the incident because one of the things that makes him so great is his selfishness, as proven by the way he handled his marriage. he doesn't care about anybody
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but himself. and i thought he would be able to come back because that is a great asset to haveas a competitor. that he would be able to come back and brush it offer and just start playing like tiger woods again. i was wrong. i mean, something he has the last two years is nothing to do with his golf swing. >> he changed it 100 times. >> and while he changed it he won 14 majors he didn't win 14 majors because he had the greatest golf swing but because he was the most competitive person to ever play the game, because he could get it up and down from mars. >> rose: let me talk about people that you know and people who had extraordinary abilities and who had a personal relationship with you, jim bobanan. >> jim was a guy who i knew very well when he was at north carolina state. i used to go to games, largely for the purpose of hging out with jim after the game, because he was the most entertaining guy i ever met in sports, one of the
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great story timers of all-time, you didn't know if they were true and told so well and funny that it didn't matter if theyere true, he always told a story about when heirst got to nc say state and the first year they got blown out by north carolina twice, carolina has perkins and jordan, a great team, andafter the second loss, the state alum came up to him and said coach i know you are not from here and from the north, but we can't be lingo north carolinaing this way and he said oh i understand, we are going to do better against the tar heels next eks next year and the guy said no yoach you don't understand if you don't beat the tar heels we will kill your dog. >> i don't have a dog but i get your point. the next morning, he goes to get his newspaper and opens up the door of his house, and there is a basket sitting on the front step looks under the blanket there is a the cutest puppy you ever saw and around the puppy's neck is a note, it says don't get too attached. now is that story true? i don't know. but it is a great story.
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>> rose: the best storyteller. >> the best storyteller and everybody would leave, because coaches can never sleep after games as you know, and jim would, rather than look at tape, like a bob knight or mike chef ski he would order a pizza and wine and tell stories. he would stretch out on the couch and look at me and say what am i going to be when he grew up because he was 37 when he won the national championship and felt he had done coaching and we to look or the next thing. was it to be on television? was it to, you know, get out of sport altogether? was it to run for political office? he was a very smart, very well-read guy, and the tragedy of his life was, the nexthing for him turned out to be cancer, because he didn't find it and then when he wa stricken, knew he was going to die, that is when he started the v foundatio and went to mike che chef ski and when i die you have to pick up this mantle. >> and tell me the story about ef ski, going to his rule. >> mike would visit him, jim was
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being treated at duke hospital and mike would visit him whenever he was there and sit up th h late at night. they hadn't been close before that .., they were rivals here in new york when mike at as army and nc state and duke and the wives were friend ily but hadn't been close but in that last year ey became very close and that's when jim basically said you have to do this for me. >> rose: didn't you tell the story once that mike went inside the room and shut the door and said you are going to live, you have to live. >> well, he did do that, but jim said to him, i am not going to. i mean, when they showed him the -- i guess back then it was an x-ray, hishole back was black, anthe doctor said, that is the cancer. and that was in july of '92. he died in may of '93. now the story mike does tells that famous espy speech people have seen hundreds of time, he and mickey flew with jim and pam from raleigh durham, jim was in
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the bathroom the entire time stick, and that when they got to the theatre, jim said to him, when i finish, you have to me up and get me. because i am n going to have the streng to walk down those three steps. off the stage. and i don't want to fall that on my face in front of all of the people. so when you watch that tape, when he finishes, you see chef ski jump from his seat and go up on the stage and help i didn't mean down off the stage. >> rose: john mcenroe. because you said there are two people uh you would most like to follow up, one is mcenroe. >> well, you know, john mcenroe funniest line ever may have come when i was doing season on the brink and i flew over to st. louis, boring and him were playing in an exhibition and the washington post asked me to go over and i saw john after the match and he said what are you doing here? i said i am in bloomington and working on a book on bob knight and he said, isn't he crazy? and i said yes as opposed to you, john, he might be crazy. >> rose: you also tell the story about mcenroe in which he
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said basically you said to him, you know, wasn't it counter productive? he brought it up, and said basically, i will give you the punch line, basically said, you know, looking back on it i shouldn't have done it and then you said, are you suggesting that the refs were right? >> no he said i wish i hadn't spent so much time arguin with the umpires, i used all of my energy and i said yeah, 90, 95 percent of the time they had the calls right a they said no, they didn't, they were always wrong i just shouldn't have argued so much. >> rose: let me bring this to this weekend, football. what do you think we are looking in terms through the, can the ravens beat the patriots? >> i think they can. i think they absolutely can, i think. >> rose: because of the defense. >> to slow bra down, i think they need -- >> rose: i like the broncos. >>rady look like he was in an armchair all night, but also was very sharp. >> he is a great quarterback that's why you have to, you have
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to pass rush him, when the giants beat them in the super bowl, it was because they didn't give him tie to throw, if you give tom brady time to throw he will kill you. the ravens have the kind of pass rush where they don't have to blitz extra people where they can put pressure on brady and still cover the receivers. now with those two tight ends and wes welker and all the weapons that brady has they are still going to score points so the question is going to be can the raven produce enough offense to keep the patriots offse offer the field? long enough so that they can have a chance to stay in the game. i believe their defense is good enough too tha >> rose: and what happens whe the giants play the 49ers? you know, i talked to tom jane, the indiana basketball coach who is the -- >> rose: asking a pretty good season. >> yes, until last week he was having a great season. but he, is brother-in-law to the hear bro's, married a sister. >> re: one is in san francisco and the other isn baltimore. >> jim is in san francisco and i don't know is in baltimore and describing.
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>> rose: both former college coaches too. >> exactly right. and the amazing thing about i don't know is, he wasn't even a coordinator wh they plucked him. but tom describe m harbaugh as a force of nature and when -- i just wonder if that mentality might be the difference, that playing home against the giants, that said, if the game comes down to the two quarters back in the fourth quarter i would say drew brees, it had to be drew brees. >> it was alex smith, he was brilliant. >> eli manning versus -- >> versus rogers. >> yes exactly although eli manning is accomplished and proved he can proveames on the road he didn't in green way. >> but if it comes down to manning and smith i would put money on manning, if the giants get ito that point i like their chances. >> rose: we will see. and finally this, this is wh interests me, in terms of a particular athlete and the profession he is in, the sport
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that he mpetes, who is the best at it? >> what person plays baseball better than anybody you know plays football? what person is the better ten fits player than anybody you know who hits the golf ball. >> well it was tiger woods, without any question he was the most dominant athlete in the world but the other guy -- >> ros because of the factors beyond the pure athleticism of his spring. >> oh, sure. >> it is mental. >> rose: a mental, right. >> every port is mental but if you want to know who has been the most dominant athlete in the sport it has been michael phelps. >> rose: yes. >> michael phelps took swimming to a level it has never been at and the funny thing is i had lunch with michael phelps mother and coach in 2001 when michael phelps was 16 years old, and we were talking about the possibility of doing a book, and i was trying to explain to them that it was really hard to market swimming. and i said there is only one swim never the world that people have heard of and that is mark spitz. >> rose: right. >> and his mom said to me, this is a baby spitz.
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>> and after the olympics in beijing i sent her an e-mail and i said you were wrong he is better than spitz, which he is. >> rose: you know what he is doing right now? getting ready for the olympics. >> and that will be his last swimming meet of one of greatest athletes inistory. >> rose: so have you ever wanted to get beyond sports? >> yes, yes. you know, as i talk aboutt in this book,. >> rose: that's a good idea. >> and i covered politics, and politics imy other paion. >> rose: yes. >> the problem iay have in politician politics is that i have biases that go well beyond my biases in sports. >> rose: what do you like in pocy and what you think is right? >> yes i get far more passionate about it than sports so that might -- that might an issue for me although it doesn't seem to be an issue for people. >> what do they have in mmon other than winning and losing. >> the fact it is competition, the fact -- i always said e difference between politics and covering sports is you hear different lies. but i have always wanted -- the book that i would love to do, if i was in a different situation,
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in terms of my family, is to move to new hampshire for a year. and just write about all the people who come into the state and all the people who have been involved in the primaries, the primary up there, getting back to the 1960s and seventies i would love that book. >> rose: i hope the only thing you mean by that, if i was in a different circumstance is that you would not want to take your kids out of school. >> that's what mean. >> rose: otherwise no excuse. >> that's exactly what i mean. i have a 14 month old so-- that is not an excuse but a reason. >> the greatest athletic feat of the last 100 years is? içó said meçó having a baby at my age. >> rose: how old are you. >> i am 55. >> rose: is that right? and how is the mother? >> younger. >> very wise and very quick. the book is calleone on one, behind the scenes with the greats of e game. nobody does it better than john feinstein.
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