tv Charlie Rose PBS April 21, 2017 12:00am-1:01am PDT
>> rose: welcome to the program am we begin this evening with robert costa of "the washington post" looking at the trump administration as it approaches 100 days in office. >> when you try to understand, what i am trying to understand as a reporter, why is elise ening for mo cohen, palin and cashner, why is he more hawkish on foreign policy, always come back to his habits. he is watching the polls as if they are ratings, listen to the television chattering in washington and reacting to it and form lating new strategies. >> rose: we continue with a conversation with chris hill, former ambassador to south korea, about north korea. and what are the options for the united states. >> i'm not sure there is really a scope for negotiation at this point, with the north koreans. they agreed to give up their nuclear weapons and then they abandoned what they agreed to. and now they'd like to talk to
us, of course, but as one nuclear power to another. i'm not sure that is really going to lead us anywhere. i think we need to have a serious, closer understanding with the chinese. >> rose: and we conclude this evening with a conversation about the youth anxiety center at new york press we terrian hospital. we talk to doctors anne-marie albano, francis lee and john walkup. >> it was only in the 1983 edition, 1980 edition of the dsm, diagnostic and statistical manual that we recognized childhood anxiety disorders. previously, and even to this day, many physicians, many teachers think this is a phase. they tell parents wait it out. this is going to go away. but in actuality anxiety bus start by age four, the specific fobias are not merely fears that a child grows out of. an those diagnoses-- build upon each other, separation anxiety by six, generalized anxiety by ten which is worry gone amok,
social fobia or social anxiety disorder runs throughout those ages and they add on to one another and they're gateway dying know cease. every adult ep dem logical study of mental illness in this country has shown anxiety in childhood predicts every mental health condition in adults from bipolar disorder to schizophrenia, you name it. >> rose: robert costa chris hill and the youth anxiety center when we continue. funding for charlie rose is is provided by the following. >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications
from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. president trump will mark his 100th day in office next week, and by all accounts it will be a busy one. administration is planning to mount a new effort to repeal and replace obamacare, meanwhile the government faces a possibility of another shut down, and there is also the issue of tax reform and infrastructure. joining me now, with more of what to expect in washington, robert costa of "the washington post." he has also just been named the successor to gwen ifill as the moderator of washington week right here on pbs. and i begin with a congratulations to robert costa and also well he deserved selection by them. so i look forward to sharing friday night with you. >> charlie, it's a thrill, an honor to do it, and truly appreciate your support all
these years going back to my internship since 2006. it's been phenomenal to have you there as a mentor and friend. >> rose: let's begin with president trump. 100 days coming up. what can we say have been successes and failures? i mean two things come to mind. this confirmation of a supreme court justice, two, in term its of where we are now, although people don't know the strategy, the syrian air air strike. where would you assess the trump administration at 100 days. >> what we are looking at is is a white house that towts the gorsuch confirmation as its signature achievement in the first 100 days. and on foreign policy they feel like they're findk some coherent-- coherence as you correctly stated due to the syrian air strike, that he is moving away from his noninterventionist instincts to a more traditional republican mode of foreign policy especially thanks to defense secretary mattis, secretary of
state tillerson, the upheaval for national security advisor moving away from the more combative general flin to flynn to hr mcmaster. as they nary the 100 day mark they are still searching for a legislative achievement. that's why late this week you have the white house scrambling with house speaker paul ryan to try to he revive health care. once congress comes back next week before the 100 days is actually, hits its mark. because they want to have something they can talk about that passes the house on health care. >> rose: do they think they can do that? is that a reasonable expectation? >> it's an expectation. i wouldn't call it it reasonable yet based on my reporting. there is a real tension thursday in washington about what is possible on health care. republicans on capitol hill who i have spoken with, the top ones in the leadership say they don't have the votes yet in the house to pass any kind of health care legislation. but the president himself, i'm told by white house officials, is putting his foot on the pedal and saying i don't care what the hill is saying about the vote
count. i need this to move in the house next we can. that's why you have chief of staff reince priebus and steve bannon the chief strategist trying to work with the hard line freedom caucus to come up with some kind of consensus plan. >> rose: are they having any success with the freedom caucus conditins so far the freedom caucus has been working closely with the white house on a revised bill. they're talking about different kinds of conservative elements they want to inject into the legislation, less spending. at the same time, the leadership is still wary, if the white house cuts a deal with the freedom caucus on health care, does it actually hurt the final tally among house help rans-- republicans. in other words, if you give the freedom caucus what it wants to some moderate in the house gop become wary of legislation. >> rose: have they given any idea they might attract some democrats if they make the bill a little bit different? >> not at all. there's very low expectations about democratic input. if you look at-- i was just in atlanta for three days covering
that special house electionment i spoke to senator van holden and others working on senate races this year. they say the democrats have so much grass roots energy on the left, they look at what happened, even though they didn't win the seat in georgia, they got close to 50%, they don't see any impe tut-- impetus, any reason to move towards republicans on health care because they think president obama's base which didn't come out if droves in 2016 could come out in 2018 an help democrats maybe even win back the house, if health care is an animating issue. >> rose: yet at the same time i see where fundraising for the trump administration and republican party is going quite well. >> st. you lack at the president's popularity with the republican base, it's sky high, overall, the president's approval rating has been at times ticking below 40%. and that's caused some alarm inside of the white house. but the republican base sees this hard-charging president in spite of all of his flaws and controversies, as someone who is in a way an outsider in
washington. and that's what many of them wanted. >> with respect to repeal repeal and replace, the president keeps insisting it ought to go first in part because he needs it to help him with tax reform and even infrastructure. i assume some revenue or some tax credits or something is coming out of that. >> if you look at what the republican health-care bill is in the house, it's in essence a health drk dsh not only a health-care bill but a tax bill. and as the speaker has explained to the president, the president has been told that you need to do health care first to get rid of some of the obama care taxes to pave the path for tax reform and then for intra-- infrastructure. there is a tension between capitol hill republicans and the white house. because people close to the president say that part of the president wishes he went first with infrastructure, brought in some democrats and didn't go after president obama's most famous law as his first move. >> rose: with respect to tax
reform, what is it that they want to do? >> it's been intriguing to watch garyee cohen take the reigns of tax reform, treasury secretary mnuchin is involved in the process and so are house republicans but what cohen has been working on based on my conversations with members in congress and the white house, is they want to get rid of some deductions but really it's about corporate tax cuts. and what they are really negotiating now is what is that rate going to be, coming down from 35, is it going to be 20, 22. what is the calculation politically and policy wise on all the different individual but as most especially the corporate rates. that is what they are trying to figure out as congress comes back. >> rose: they also want to figure out how to get rid of all that money overseas held by corporations back to the united states. >> that's why the democrats see some what of an opening to maybe a shape a tax reform discussion. because they know the president has put such an emphasis on this buy american idea, and the repatriate-- repatriation of american dollars and dollars back into the american economy. and so when i talk to democrats
on capitol hill they say they would you like to actually drive a wedge between the ryan wing and trump win and you ever populist moves on taxes to sea if he will move in their direction. >> rose: speaking of wings an gary cohen, what factions are fighting within the white house and who's winning i think you could say the new york crowd, the financial crowd with the jared kushner, the son in law and president's senior advisor at the top, he's really pushing the president softly, trump's not someone who likes to be yanked, as we know. the president is listening more to kushner, to gary cohen to dina, the national deputy national security advisor who works closely with mcmaster, who is a traditional republican. she also of course used to work for goldman sax. he knows that his stumble on health care and some of these hard line aks on immigration that were shaped by steven miller and steven bannon and jeff sessions have in a way in his mind led to his unpopularity. he's starting to rethink as he
did during the campaign at many points the impact on how much you should way certain advisor, bannon is still in the mix. he hasn't resigned even though he lost some of his capital, he has been much more quiet, that doesn't mean he has gone away. >> rose: you don't expect him to go soon. >> i don't expect bannon to leave at all, bannon in his mid 60s this is the project of his life from hollywood to breat bart, someone at the fringes of american political life now finds himself at the center. he's not rushing for the door. >> rose: but the question is not whether he's rushing, the question is whether he will be pushed. >> i think the question whether bannon leaves, if he can repair his relationship with jared kushner, he will stay. if he cannot, and it remains as fiery as it is right now based on my reporting, that he could find himself out in a few weeks, even a few months. the problem for bannon is he was smart during the campaign to build his alliance with kushner who didn't have a firm grass paragraph of what breitbart was all about and what the trump base was about.
he saw in bannon someone who could help him interpret the voters and form late policy and strategy. but since the election, that relationship between bannon and kushner that has been so crucial for trump has frayed, and if bannon can't fix that, he will be on the outs. >> rose: let me turn to syria and also north korea. what are the lessons that you draw from the syrian strike. >> it's not so much-- it's not clear yet what the strategy is. but i think that episode was very revealing about how the president's evolved on national security and foreign policy. i'm told he's listening closely to the cabinet, to mcmaster, to tillerson, to mattis and he's very mill tarristic in his instincts. we saw this during the campaign as well. but he remains averse to intervention, to the idea of ground troops. he was against part of the iraq intervention even though he initially supported it. he is not talking about sending in troops to syria but he likes the idea of targeted strikes projecting american strength but not having american lives be at
risk in an extensive way. and with north korea, he enjoys this confrontational style. not just on domestic politics but as we're learning in foreign policy. even though he doesn't have this amazing depth in the north korean issue and not articulating new policy day to day and the vice president keeps talking about honoring u.s. allies as he is a product-- abroad in asia, we are seeing a confrontational style rather than doctrine defining the policy. >> rose: with respect to north korea, has the president listens to his advisors, he seems to be listening mostly as you suggest hr mcmaster to his secretary of state rex tillerson and secretary of defense general mattis. is that a fair appraisal of who has his ear in terms of the military decisions he has to make? >> it is, but i think with north korea you have to include president xi jinping of china. i'm told by my sources that that meeting at mar-a-lago was very important for trump as he understands u.s.-asia policy,
u.s.-china relations. he was told in various meetings at mar-a-lago that the chain ease perspective was that north korea shouldn't be too engaged too much to the point where maybe north korea would collapse and disrupt the region, disrupt china. and the president listened to the chinese leader talk through some of these compli kailted issues about how to box in north korea, or how confrontation can work to a point. he learned a lot about the weaknesses of north korea's economy, and about its missile program, how it doesn't even really have many ballistic missiles if any, how its nuclear program is really nash ent. these things were part of the discussion, this is a president still learning on the job in particular with foreign policy. >> rose: the president said he liked and learned a lot from xi jinping. do we know what xi jinping thought of the president? >> well, there is that moment that the president's recounted to his friends often that he wanted to show american strength to the chinese, talking about the syrian strikes as they are
eating dinner and as trump has called it the big beautiful chocolate cake they were having for dessert, that is a typical way trump tells stories t is important because that is how he comes to foreign policy, he is not developing a doctrine but wants to show world leaders like xi jinping that he is willing to take risk and action and be a cool hand in these meetings as he goes about his foreign polls hee. that was a symbolic moment for this white house. and it was a moment that was planned. >> rose: the president seems to be tweeting things that will distract from policy less, even though he continues to tweet. is there a change in terms of what he has learned works for him and what dubt? not that he will stop tweeting, but does he understands what kinds of tweets are best not sent? >> there is no clear revised plan. but he was tweeting a lot about the georgia special house election. it really got under his skin and the way he saw it as a target on him, that the seat could go. so he became involved in tweeting over an over again this
weak about the georgia race. i am told from his advisors that a lot of times he is watching television, cable channel and reacting to something he hears. and so it's all these-- this orbit around the president is so important, not just the conversations with advisors but with friends, with foreign leaders and what he digests from television coverage because he's not someone who loves reading briefing memos. so he is listening and hearing the national conversation, the international conversation and reacting. it's for others to judge that but that is what he is doing inside of the white house. and that hasn't changed. >> rose: what has changed? >> i think he's been humbled by the health care experience as we've discussed, when he called me on the phone after it all fell apart. is he someone who is recognizing that running the country is difficult but so is running the republican party. this is a factionalized party that controls the house, the senate and the white house. but it is not in anyway together. and stitching a coalition together for any kind of major initiative is is going to be very challenging for him this
year. he is starting to recognize thatment and i think that humbled approach to legislation has been something that really changed be, what he thought he could do at the top of the agenda at the beginning so much. >> rose: what does he think of the ratings when he looks at the polls. >> going back to 2013 when i first started to interyou have him, he what talk about polls like they were ratings. in fact, sometimes it would flip in conversations, you go look at those ratings, he was talking about polls. in his office at trump tower, he used to have all of his ratings in a praim. and he with have them all over the wall, among the pictures of himself he would have the ratings from the a presentician. he takes pride and is very sensitive to his public standing. so when you are trying to understand as a reporter, why is eliseening more to gary cohen and jared kushner, more hawkish on foreign policy. always come back to his habits. he's watching the polls as if they are latings. he is listening to the television comen tear and chattering in washington and
reacting to it and form lating new strategies. >> rose: who is is the last person he would talk to if he had to make an important decision? on different fronts, usually jared kushner, his daughter ivanka has major decisions, he thinks she has a good feel for many things. many issues. bannon on a lot of the immigration and trade issues. but i think what is most important to trump is not who he talks to last, it is the group he talks to last, the friends outside of the white house, tom baric who has been on your side a lot, the people outside of washington who he looks to for a gut check. >> rose: a lot of phone calls by trump to reach out and say how am i doing, what do you recommend, what do you think, where should i go. >> late at night, business leaders, friends from the golf course, friends from new york. and he doesn't often tell his aides about who he is talking about. so bannon and priebus could say good-bye at night he goases up to the residence but he's on the phone, watching tv, thinking through the presidency. it's nothing unlike we've ever
really seen before but he has this circle outside of politics that he is is regularly turning to for advice. >> rose: after 9:00 he is essentially alone. >> his wife, the first lady is up in new york with his young son baron. and he's alone in the residence with the television and with his perhaps at times his phone and twitter. >> rose: and in the morning when he gets up at whatever time. >> very early. >> rose: 3, 4, 5, 6, somewhere like that, he immediately seems to start tweeting, most of the tweets we see come early in the morning. again he's alone. and watching television. >> and he is a 70 year old man and he has his habits. i'm told he has the print versions of the newspapers which is the post guy, he scans the time, scans "the new york post." important for him to understand that tabloid style from the 85s-- '80s that lifted him still says with him, he scans the times, post, "washington post," turns on fox & friends or morning joe, he seemed to have moved away from that a little bit. and he starts to think about the news. it is a news-driven presidency.
>> rose: thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. tensions with north korea continue to rise this week. and so does the rhetoric. vice president pence was in south korea where he promised an overwhelming and effective response to any use of nuclear or conventional weapons by the north. and north korea's state-run media threatened a supermighty preem tiff strike that would reduce south korea and the united states to ashes. joining me now from denver is ambassador christopher hill. he is a former ambassador to south korea. he headed up the u.s. delegation during the korea nuclear talks. he is now the dean of the school of international studies at the university of denver. welcome, chris, great to have you here. >> thank you very much. >> rose: i have in my hand a new 100 most influential people from time magazine. they announced today that among those people is the leader of north korea, kim jung you know,
a guess who they asked to write prot file of kim jung you know, you. so tell me what you said about him. because everybody wants to know, you know, who, in fact, is he and what should we expect from him. >> well, he's been in power some five years. and there doesn't look lick there is any mellowing of his position. he has really accelerated the nuclear program. in 2016 he had two nuclear tests. it's widely believed he will have another one very soon. he's had some 25, 30 missile tests. and it's believed that that will just continue through the year. and mean time he's gone on how to put it, a bit of a murder spree. he's had executed over 300 people. usually in public executions by firing squad. he's thrown in flame-throwers and other things. in short, he does not appear to be any kind of reformer as some people thought he was. and indeed, he's proving to be a
very irrassable, difficult leader. the chinese can't deal with him, no one can deal with him. and yet, we have this looming crisis to deal with. so i think this is something the trump administration is going to have be to seized with for some time or they will come to 2020 and have to explain to the american people what all happened. >> rose: how would you deal with him? >> well, i think first of all, it is essential to have a serious discussion with the chinese. and by serious i mean not just about you know, whether they will comply with some sanctions regimes which they do need to do. but a serious understanding that if north korea were to go down by whatever means, we would not in anyway try to disadvantage china's strategic interests. we would not be putting troops up in the-- and other things like that. so we need a really serious deep dive with the chinese. secondly, and this is part of why we've seen vice president pensz and secretary tillerson and secretary mattis recently in
the region. we need to reassure our allies. i was just in south korea a few days ago. there is a lot of concern not only about the north koreans but also how the new u.s. administration is managing this. >> rose: so with respect to him, based on what you said, i mean can you expect to have a reasonable agreement that satisfies the interest of both countries? >> well, you notice i talk about what we have to do with our allies there. and i talk about what we need to do with china. but i'm not sure there is really a scope for negotiation at this point with the north koreans. i mean they agreed to give up their nuclear weapons. and then they abandoned what they agreed to. and now they would like to talk to us, of course, but as one nuclear power to another. so i'm not sure that's really going to lead us anywhere. i think we need to have a serious, closer understanding of the chinese, in particular we need to set some priorities with the chinese. and i any frankly, president trump said it best when he said
i can't start a trade war with them when we're trying to deal with this tough issue with north korea. how we deal with it, what are the elements of it it. probably in the space between peace and war, probably along the lines of trying to slow down their program through some sort of clan des tin means. but meanwhile really try to put the screws to this regime. because it it is truely intolerable and it's he's not getting better on its own. >> rose: but you do not, i would assume, recommend some kind of military strike at this point. or some kind of effort to change regime in north korea? >> you know, if there were a means to change the regime, sure. i mean it would not be a bad day if we all woke up and found that he was gone. but i think when people talk blithely about military strikes, they need to keep in mind the fact that our ally there, by far the most important country for us in the korean peninsula has some 120 million people population. half of its population within artillery range of the north koreans. so to talk about show having
some punitive attack on the north koreans, similar to syria or using some enormous bomb similar to the one we saw last week in afghanistan, is really to invite the president, would they retaliate. and if they do, we are pretty much treaty bound to go after them as well. and so before you know it, we're in a second korean war. if people want to do that, they ought to think through it and know that that is exactly what they are doing. so this idea there is is some quick military solution to this, i think is not quite accurate. >> rose: were you in south korea. what do they want us to do? >> i think the south koreans want us to be in close contact with them. they want us to understand that we can talk about what we want in places like washington. but when you live some 20 miles from north korea, you need to be pretty sober about what you are saying. i think they would like to see us talk to the chinese and have an understanding of how we might
cooperate to alleviate the pressure from the north korean regime. again i don't want to talk about coups an things like that. but we need to have an understanding with china that north korea as its presently constitutedded is not a stable element for the future. and i think the south koreans would like to see that but with one caveat. i don't think they want us going and talking with the chinese about the future of the korean peninsula unless they are part and parcel of the thoughts that go on in such a conversation. in short, i think their mantra would be nothing about us without us. >> rose: is that a reasonable idea for them? clarily it is is. is is that a reasonable idea for the chinese and for the united states? >> well, i think it's a very reasonable idea for the south koreans and for us because we're allies. and if there is a perception in south korea that we are cutting our own deals with the chinese without them involved, i think that would very much weaken this alliance which i think has stood very well since the end of the korean war.
so i think from their perspective, it's vital. i think the chinese have to kind of over the years, they have kind of learned that they no longer have tri beu tear states around them. they have sovereign countries around them. and i think they need to take that a little more to heart and understand that we cannot do things without the south koreans in accord with what we are doing. now china and south korea have had a good relationship over the years. but the way china has gone after south korea, so the fact that south cor why and the u.s. agree to put in an antiballistic missile system, the way china has gone after sot korea, tried to punish them is really not a good way to treat neighbors who, after all, are going to be there for the next thousand years. >> rose: i assume they're against that because they think it questions their own use of weapons if they should find it in their national interest to do so. >> well, i think from china's point of view, putting in the so called terminal high altitude area of he defense system, so
called fad, it has a very robust radar, and the chinese are worrying that all he though the nominally it's there to deal with the north korean threat, it could ultimatel to worry about them, they taught to talk to us about them, and the south koreans, not just try to make life miserable for the south korean state. which after all is going through some tough times. the president was impeached and now in prison. they have an election coming up on may 9th. these are tough times and it's d it's very important thatd the china understands that south korea is a very stable element on the korean peninsula and one that they should welcome should they become their neighbor. >> rose: and with respect to the election on may 9th, who's likely to win, and is that
person likely to accept the previous policy with respect to the united states and south korea? >> well, right now it's quite a horse race. there is a candidate moon jane who is a-- bo was the chief of staff ta to the last leftist center korean president, moon is known to harbor kind of a view that show we are not doing enough dialogue with the north koreans. and he has a kind of sim pathetic ear for the north koreans from time to time, or at least that's his reputation. so what is happening is as north korea has continued to threaten south korea and by the way these threats to turn it into ashes goes along with the sea of fire threat a few years ago. the more north korean threatens them, the more it helps the other can dant, ahn who has drawn even in the polls even though he does not represent
this left of centre option, he's more in the continue out of the president park now awaiting friel in prison. so it's a bit of a horse race. we don't really know how it will turn out. but it's all the more reason why the u.s. needs to be very careful in managing it. because we don't want a situation where the south korean public kind of turns on us. and while you know it it is is true in life that 50% is showing up in diplomacy, the other 50% is following through. and we have a government now in washington where rex tillerson is essentially home alone at the state partment, he goes out and talks to people but there is very little followup. and i think that needs to be addressed as well because it's not enough to go talk to the south koreans and they sort of bond whrary is next. >> rose: when you travel-- .
>> what are thelies think being president trump, if you take the to the tal -- totality of president trump going to candidate trump to now president trump, there's a lot to be concerned about in terms of statements that seem, how to put it, not to have been fully staffed or thought through. so there is some concern among our allies about what kind of-- what will the alliance look like going forward. and so i think it is really behoove this administration to get its adults out there in the field, whether it's secretary mattis or secretary tillerson. but they also want to see sort of a follow through and they would like to see some continue out. i think the trump administration has spent a lot of time stressing that there will not be continue out with previous policies. and its' kind of hard to hear them talk about a situation in korea without show acting as if the problem here is barack obama
rather than kim jung you know. and so that wore hees people because they would like to see more continue out-- continuity from us. they're not-- they don't have the concerns about trump that many people in the u.s. do. they think he might be a strong leader. they welcome strong american leadership but they would like to see that strength accompanied by knowledge and wisdom. >> rose: then there's the element of predict able, or nonpredict ability. unpredict ability. seems to cut both ways. some suggest it has its advantages, if you change your position in unpredictable way you may be next week. on the other hand, as you suggested, predict ability is something that allies depend on. >> yeah, it's a delicate game. you want to kind of make your adversaries wonder what you are going to doment and sometimes the creative all big out is henry kissinger used to talk about it, is i think valuable. but on the other hand they want some predict ability.
they want to know what our real interests are, how we look at them long-term. and when the administration spent so much time repute yaiting anything that went on before, i mean it was quite remarkable to hear the vice president speaking in south korea about, or decrying the obama policy as strategic patience. but he also linked that to every other president before. so i think there is a lot to be, there's a lot that they are worried about. and there is a a lot of diplomatic work for this new administration to accomplish to deal with that. >> rose: do you think they meant to say we're no longer patient? >> yeah, i think the idea was look, being patient, of course they put the word strategic to convey a kind of wisdom in being patient. but i think the idea is to say that kind of strategic patience hasn't gotten us anywhere and we need to deal with this issue. it's not-- i don't think the trump administration is trying to say we're done with talking, we need to move on to some military solution.
i think they're simply saying we can't let this issue bedevil us for the next 20 years as it has done for the previous 20 years. and by the way, i share that view. i think the fact that north korea is getting very close to a deliverable nuclear weapon is something we have to be very concerned about. i'm not in a position it say with 100% certainty that they wouldn't use such a thing. and i think north korea looks at their nuclear arsenal not just in terms of regime survival as some apologists as some suggest but rather i think they look at it from the point of view of how can we split the united states from these alliances, from japan and south korea. and so they could put the united states in a position that unless you back off, we may use this arsenal against you. an of course our comeback is we will obliterate you. but is that a good enough trade to obliterate north korea in return for an american city. and if you are a u.s. president, you may not look at it that way.
so the stakes are very high and tensions are very high. and we need some real serious thinking an serious approach to this. and we're not going to be able to do it without our allies as secretary mattis wisely suggested. >> rose: but also china, we have to have china to become engaged, and to change which rations one question about china. eting in palm beach thathat you suggested a different kind of or an evolving relationship with china with respect specifically to north korea, perhaps also to trade. >> i like to think and maybe this is a triumph of hope over expectation, but i like to think that they had a serious discussion in which they put north korea at the top of the agenda. i think like in effing, you have to set priorities. and i think ta often in our conversations with china we've
gotten into this sort of di sultry list of issues with no real issue rising to the top. so i think north korea did rise to the top. now it's not easy to find a way forward. you know, people often talk about how the chinese are worried about issues like refugees. well, that's probably true. but they're also worried about what happens if there is a north korean demise. what is the perception, is this going to look like an american victory, a chinese defeat. there's a lot of this kind of zero sum thinking going on in china. they worry that if you lose this last marksist leninist bastion, how will that affect the internal discussion within china about china's own internal system. so there is a lot of, there is a lot of different opinions about china. it really shouldn't be said that a country with 1.4 billion people has one opinion on something. so in this lack of consensus in china on these issues, there's been a lack of resolve and a
lack of clear policy going forward. and i think maybe president trump may have helped to focus them on what needs to be done. and suggesting to them look, we're looking very carefully at this. we're not looking at trade wars or other things right now. >> yeah. >> so we'll have to see how this turns out. but i really think they need to do this with more of a team than they've got fielded right now. >> and the secretary of state needs more help. back to the question about dealing with the chinese. it's a long way from mao that president chinese leadership and the present chinese economy, so it's less marksist leninist is one thing. the other thing is that xi jinping has an lek coming up with the congress, an will meet with the congress chinese congress in october or november. and he wants to chang the-- change the nature of his own government who he puts on the standing committee, and that kind of thing, a kind of strengthening of his own authority. and therefore he doesn't want any problems between now and
then correct? >> that's absolutely correct. and to use an american political term, for chinese, north korea is a wedge issue. there are people especially among the security services who feel this is a historic ally. obviously their system that they have in north korea has little similarity to the system they have in china. although they both call them communist systems. but the concern is that show if you let this old historic neighbor go down, you have kind of started the unraveling of china. so there is that view. and then you go to other parts of china and people have no patient with dealing with north korea. they would like to throw them under the bus in a new york minute. but there are opinions are split and for xi jinping to kind of come out on one side or the other, invites more controversy just as he's trying to consolidate his power. so there is no question these domestic factors in china loom
very large, as they do in any great power. they certainly loom large in our country. >> rose: what do you make finally of this controversy about the aircraft carrier carl vincent? >> well, on one level it looks like a sort of confusion of talking points between the pacific command, the pentagon, the white house. on the one hand is looks just sort of bureaucratic snafu, maybe related to some of the lack of staffing. on the other hand, it has a look that maybe our president was trying to sell something that wasn't quite all there for-- he suggested that we would have, he used the term armada, normally used for the spanish armada. some 500 years ago am but he used that term, okay. and he implied that that would be show part of last week he's solution in terms of getting north korea to back off.
and then we find that it was-- it had things to do or exercises to do in australia, and it wasn't going to be deployed for some time. and so i guess the problem is when you are president and you say something, and even if you think are you saying something accurately, people need to be able to take that to the bankment and i think the whole operation there has to be very ask, has to be really tightened up to make sure there's not the kinds of confusion that has kind of emerged in the last couple of days. because the next time he says something will people believe him literally or will it be some sort of figurative notion that oh, at some point we'll get an american ship up there. >> i got you. this is the last par graph of what you wrote about kim jung you know, initial hopes that the swiss educated third generation deck tatter would be a reformer and a seed to international he depans to abandon his ed along with his victims.ong
there are no good options for stopping kim but cooperating with china and reinforcing alliances with japan an south korea is a start. chris hill, great to see you, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> rose: chris hill from denver, back in a moment. >> anxiety disorders are the most comong mental ill innocence the united states. research shows one in five young adults has experienced an anxiety disorder in the past year. the youth anxiety center was founded in 2013 in new york press we ter yen hospital. the doctors and researchers are studying the root causes and finding more sphekive interventions, joining me dr. anne-marie albano of columbia university medical center, dr. francis lee of colonel medicine and dr. john walkup of wile cornel medicine. i'm pleased to have all of them at this table. welcome. i'm stunned by this. i had no idea that youth anxiety was even a problem.
i mean you read about issues that happened a because of different kinds of conflicts. but this is an epidemic. >> well, its he's out. there it's been out there for a long time. but fortunately the youth anxiety center and other programs like it we're recognizing it more readily. we're getting outreach to people so that schools, colleges specifically, can pay attention. and the same thing with physicians in primary care who see a lot of these kids come into their offices. and can educate families about this problem. >> rose: tell me what we are talking about. >> you know, it's interesting. we knew about adhd in the mid 1930st, about depression about 30 or 40 years ago. but the evidence-based for the childhood onset anxieties disorders really came too publication in early 2009. so it's even though anxiety has been around for a long time, we kind of now know about the treatment and can really advocate for it. most of the anxiety disorders begin in childhood between six and 12. and what we find is that many of
the kids who are treated treatee youth anxiety center really never got earlier effective treatment. and as a result, lived with these conditions for a long time, and as a result, developed ongoing problems with coping an adaptation. and as they try and transition into adulthood, become more independent, they really struggle. and many of them fail. >> rose: but tell me what we are talking about. give me a classic example of youth anxiety. because your center was only established in 2013. >> we've been working at this for a long time. as dr. walkup said, it was only in the 1983 edition, 1980 edition of the dsn, diagnostic and statistical manual that we recognized childhood anxiety disorders. previously, and even to this day, many physicians many teachers think this is a phase. they tell parents wait it out. this is going to go away. but in actuality, anxiety does start by age four, the specific fobias are not-- phobias are not merely fears that a child grows
out of. and those diagnoses build upon each other, separation anxiety by six, generalized anxiety by ten which is worry gone amok. social phobia or social anxiety disorder runs throughout those ages and add on to one another and they are gateway dying know cease. every adult epidemiological study of mental illness in this country has soan anxiety in child oodz predicts every mental health condition in adults. from bipolar disorder to schizophrenia, you name it. >> rose: if you look at schizophrenia, bipolar, you can look back and see youth anxiety. >> you see anxiety in the back, right. >> rose: so what can can you do? >> so i think what the youth anxiety centers has done is it has set up a very unique system where you have-- center where you have basic nurse scientists with clinicians and physicians who will basically try to work together to focus on this question of, what is very interesting is that it is re
rare for basic neuroscientists to be in the same center as with clinicians who are treating patients at the same time. and what it allows us to do is to do parallel studies both clinical research and also basic research. and the basic research is mainly-- up to ten years ago almost no one studied adolescent mice or rats. >> rose: does the treatment help the anxiety. >> they can be stra leader-- extraordinarily effective. especially if we get them early. what youth anxiety is specializing in is the anxiety but also has to work with yung people around all of the coping adoptation diforts that they have developed along the way. so it it is a much more complicated treatment than when we deal with them in childhood when we get nem in adolescence or young adulthood. >> you just said something that many families come in, kids come in with, get rid of this anxiety for me. i can't take this anxiety. in fact, as francis' work with
basic science shows, anxiety is a normal natural emotion. we need anxiety. it motivates us, it protects us, gets us out of the the way of danger t tells us to study. >> rose: what is the difference between that and what we are talking about. >> this is it, avoidance sets in where kids will not do things that are challenging to them because it raises their anxiety, whether it is study for exams, walk into a classroom, advocate for a grade with a teacher or meet up with friends. they avoid things. avoidance is really key, the more you avoid, the more your distress goes up because you find that, you know, you don't know how to cope. then it interferes with your functioning. and what we see with these youth who are 18 to 28 years old s that at the don't lesh the basic social skills, negotiation skills and other things that other kids on track are getting. >> rose: is there stigma. >> there's stigma, mainly in the parents. about what their kids are going through. kids actually break down stigma pretty well.
once they get talking about it, and they recognize they have friends who have anxiety issues or adhd issues or depression, it's actually our generation that is not doing the good job of breaking down stigma. >> rose: has social media exacerbated it? >> it it hasn't helped in some ways it has helped in many ways. there is a lot of cyberbullying that can occur that increases anxiety. and then of course how many likes you have and so on and so forth. it sets up competition and there's a lot of misinformation. one being we should get rid of anxiety rather than learn how to manage and deal with the anxiety. >> there's also, you know, people who are developing treatments that would work through ipads through the computer, and so there is lots-- . >> rose: information and therapy. >> absolutely. and there are some kids who are so uncomfortable socially that their only social healthy social outlet is through media. so you know, it's a mixed bag. it's a mixed bag for us. we like the positive parts. but there are some real anything
tiffs. >> rose: how would a parent know that their child is offering from anxiety? >> that's a fans it particular question because kids will suffer two to seven years before the parent actually knows. and part of what we do is even though these are 18 to 28 year olds we work with the family in this. because what happens early in life is as the child is struggling with anxiety, the parent's natural tendency is to protect, comfort, reassure. but it draws them into the maintenance of the anxiety. parent, we have a lot of information for parents about letting your kids struggle early on so they doaferl some of the coping resources this they need to manage these kinds of symptoms. >> rose: what about adults, do they have anxiety well. >> yes. >> rose: is it the same thing? >> it is but focused on different issues. i mean it's in the social, in the work related areas and so forth. it's different ages an stages but still anxiety disorders run the gamut through life span. >> rose: is it treated mainly through-- what is the division of the medical school and the hadn't that we treat anxiety.
>> child and adolescent psychiatry. we work with kids up to 18 but for the youth anxiety center we're interested in kids between 16 and 28. and we still think about some of them as kids because they have a childhood onset condition that really needs to be understood in that developmental context. >> most of the adults who are 18 and above actually had anxiety disorder before hand. >> that is my experience. it's just that they often go, we didn't pay attention to it. we didn't think of it as serious. we thought of it as kind of a neur rottic continue that might-- neur otic condition that might be managed just with kind of support or interest. >> that you grow out of t doesn't work that way. >> you talked about-- . >> rose: no one grows out of it. >> not out of a disorder. and you know, some of the data out there is nine percent of preschoolers have an anxiety disorder that is being managed
as medical conditions, headaches, stomach aches and things like that, not for anxiety itself. have ocd, social phobia.ld might they are working around the academic decline or family disfunction that occurs. but not about the anxiety disorder itself. so we have to help families see and therapists around the country see, we've got to get in there and work with the anxiety, within that youth and then also with the way the family is is working with them. >> is there a lot of research going on now in terms of understanding both the anxiety and how to deal with it? >> yes, and most importantly i think the biggest advance that the youth anxiety center has made is that we've figured out that adolescent rats, mice and humans are actually going to what we call a critical period which we had not known before, that it is actually a very special time in terms of the way that the brain develops. there is this one brain region the prefrontal cortex that seems to not mature until the age of 23, for example. we all thought that this was linearly growing getting bigger and bigger. we actually know that now there are other parts of the brain that are hyperconnecting to it,
and that we're actually using that knowledge. there is this one other brain region called the hypocampus that is very important for spaition memory and learning, that seems to grow through addressant through a plastic period which makes it vulnerable, to, for example, things like anxiety and trauma but also gives us opportunities to actually do various things that stimulate the hypocampus. >> plastic can regrow. >> it can regrow, reconnect and for example, the best, one of the ways that anne-marie and i are thinking about it is we are trying to develop therapies, for example, where you use certain types of immod allities that stimulate the hypocampus like virtual reality where you actually do a virtual reality-based psychotherapy, so for example someone is afraid of going to-- going 234r50euing, it is hard to go to an airport these days. >> you put them in virtual reality and put the glasses on and they feal like they're flying. >> if you did functional mirror imaging simultaneously you would notice the hypocampus is really lighting up during that period of time.
what our research is suggesting is that actually adolescents are probably better at this type of learning than previously dangerous places are less dangerous if they are placed in these, t is is what anne-marie-- . >> rose: what is a previously thought of dangerous place. >> for example, inside an airplane or inside. >> for kids it is is a classroom. we think about the classroom. for example, the vehicle for change in terms of psychotherapy comes from cognitive we hevieral therapy. john and i were the coleads of the largest trial that studied treatments for anxiety disorders in 7 to 17 year olds. the combination of medication and cognitive behavier therapy got the most kids 80% well. but the mono therapies, cognitive behavier therapy by itself or medication also got a significant number of kids well. exposure, if you have heard of exposure therapy, exposing the person to what they are afraid of is key and critical to this treatment. and with the work we learned of from francis in terms of mice in the adolescent phase, you have
to make the context real for the kids. so the work we do, we bring our kids out into the world. they are on subways, in restaurants, taking them places to expose them to what they are afraid of. and the virtual reality, we have a virtual dorm, a virtual classroom, a college classroom, a virtual party where they are actually in a scene that is challenging their fears for speaking and ber interacting with people. >> with all that are you learning through brain imaging and everything else, what are the big questions that remain unanswered? >> i would say that the big question is first of all, how did we miss this. how did we not know that the brain was organizing during adolescence. the secretary thing is, we still don't know the molecular mechanism. what are the growth factors or other things that are actually leading to this. and if you could find those, cuz as they found for critical periods for vision, you could use them for protension targets whether they be behavioral interventions or even designing
new drugs to, for example, open up critical periods, to as you said if someone has gone through seven or eight years of anxiety, then you would want to be able to make their hypocampus for example more plastic so then could you then view this type of treatment, were it not just so you have periods of time even after adolescence as you said for the adult with anxiety disorder. would you actually want them to be able to treat it. >> what else is on the frontier beyond that? >> the number one question parents ask me, is how long does my kid have to be on medicine. >> yeah. they ask a little bit about side effects. but once they make the decision, once they realize that anxiety is he severe and impairing and understand the long-term context of that, they say well, okay, i agree. but how long. and we have no idea. we've tried a number of sometimes to get this funded. >> are they worried about addiction or what are they worried about. >> they are making a commitment between six and 12 to do an
intensive form of psychotherapy but also medication management and they want to know, is this a lifelong thing. is this something that they could do for eye year or two and get on top of it and lick it, if you will. and we don't have really good data, we have strategies that we use but we don't have great data about how to inform families about how long to treat. >> thank you for coming. pleasure to have you here. >> thank you for having us. >> thank you for joining us. see you next time. is for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
boom! hello, i'm julia child. welcome to my house. what fun we're going to have baking all kinds of incredible cakes, pies and breads right here in my own kitchen. esther mcmanus, the talented french patissiere who runs lebus bakeries in philadelphia shows us how to make croissants-- you know those wonderful buttery french crescent rolls.
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