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restores his father's historic jazz club with his son. a raymond james financial advisor get to know you, your passions, and the way you bring people together. life well planned. brett: you know as someone coming out of college it can be very nerve-racking not knowing what to expect, whether you'll like your job or not, whether you'll make friends, whether you'll fit in, and here i feel like it's so welcoming and such an inclusive place to work, you just feel like you're valued. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation, the judy and peter blum kovler foundation, upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad. announcer: and now, bbc news. as the whole world had been waiting over the last few hours. hello and welcome to bbc news for those viewers on pbs. we are live at the vatican. we are watching and waiting, as

is much of the world, for the results of the first boats in the conclave. you can hear a murmur, chair in the ground. the crowd have been patiently waiting for some sign. we are hearing more cheers but i'm not seeing anything. there is smoke. austen: there it is. maryam: black smoke. there is black smoke. we have black smoke billowing out of the chimney. we don't have any bells, we have black smoke. there is no decision tonight on who will be the next pope. the cardinals have failed to elect a pope on the first round of voting. that smoke appeared at one minute past 9:00 exactly local

time, a new record, i believe. so, austen ivereigh, papal biographer, longtime friend of mine, by long time, i mean three hours. what does this mean? austen: as expected, this was the first ballot. on the first ballot, they see where the votes lay in the room. as it were, that vote that guides the rest of the conclave. i was not expecting a pope to be elected now. a pope has not been elected. we are getting what we expected. what was not expected that it would run so far over time. we don't know why that is the case, we may get an explanation tomorrow, or we may learn only later what happened. it may have been a technical hitch, they had to do a recount, or something to do with them, something went wrong. the important thing is they have voted, the balance have been

burned. everything is working now. we are now all set for the voting to begin again tomorrow, two votes in the morning, two in the afternoon. they may not need all of those votes, they may be able to choose a pope before then. maryam: the crowds are dissipating, leaving. they have seen the black smoke, they know what that means. a pope will be walking out onto the balcony tonight. that decision, as you said, the process will carry on through tomorrow. i suppose the cardinals are not going back for a bit of supper, which is what i would like to do at some point. austen: probably feeling what we are feeling, time to have supper and a glass of wine. also think about the cooks. they were expecting them some time ago. maryam: how do you keep the pasta al dente when you wait so long? we have to think about all the different avenues and angles here on bbc news.

to reiterate, tomorrow morning, those cardinals will come back to the sistine chapel, the doors will be locked once more and there will be two boats in the morning, but only one smoke watch. that will happen late morning. austen: tomorrow morning, they will wake up, they will have breakfast, they will then proceed to the chapel at 9:00, 9:30 and begin the process of voting again. two ballots, one smoke. at the end of the morning, they will burn the ballots. then we will get the smoke again as we are getting now, although it could be wiped at the end of tomorrow morning. then we are in the afternoon hour. in the afternoon, when in the last two conclaves, the pope has been elected either on the first or second ballot of the afternoon. if this conclave goes the same way, we will have a pope

tomorrow, white smoke tomorrow afternoon, or it could go on into friday, which could be unusual. but we are told that this is an unusual conclave because of the numbers involved, could go on into friday. maryam: you just mentioned how long other papal conclaves took. the last one that resulted in pope francis took five ballots, two days. pope benedict xvi, four ballots, two days. john paul ii, eight ballots, three days. john paul the first only took four ballots, two days. in modern history at least, these conclaves do not take more than two to three days. i suppose a part of the appeal of that is not only because the cardinals want to get back to their jobs, go back home, but also the quicker you can decide on a pope, the more that is

showing the world that the cardinals and the inner workings of the catholic church leadership are united. austen: it is very important in the pope collected is the consensus of the cardinals. that is with a two thirds majority means, consensus behind this pope. obviously, if you take a long time to get to that consensus, it doesn't look good. we have the world media out here, 4000 journalists accredited, normally only 500 for the rel royal see. the cardinals don't want to give a message that it is a struggle around them. the problem with this conclave is diversity. most of them are new to these conclaves. we have been hearing all week that they've been struggling to come together. maryam: it is a benefit in that it encompasses so much of a wider number of people from around the world, but it does

create problems. austen: if you are using a system that is in a way of assuming a smaller number of cardinals, and one of the things that could change in the next pontificate, they may want to review the papal election process to allow more time for cardinals to be in small groups together to have some fruitful discussions as it were on a more intimate basis. that could be one change that we get. maryam: thank you very much for that, austen. let's pick to the editor of global catholicism, professor of studies at holy cross university, matthew schmaltz. thank you for joining us this evening. if i could ask you for your reaction to tonight's events. unsurprising. we were pretty much expecting the black smoke, expecting the conclave to continue as a process, but it has taken quite a long time this evening for this to happen. matthew: it has taken a long

time. i was expecting black smoke. that in and of itself is not a surprise, but now i'm actually getting kind of nervous that there seems to be ripples in the process which they will have to smooth out in order for the conclave to proceed. we will have to see. who knows whether we will find out exactly what went on. maryam: does this mean that you are worried that the length of today's conclave could potentially mean a longer conclave generally? matthew: i am thinking that simply because of the diversity of the college of cardinals, that the conclave could be a little longer. we are not talking weeks or months or years or anything like that, but maybe a day longer than what we experienced in the last papal elections. because as you all have been emphasizing, these are cardinals

who are still getting to know one another. unless they are going to go for a clear candidate who is already well known, the deliberations may take some time. maryam: where do you think the cardinals want to see the catholic church moving forward? we have the progressives, the conservatives, the centrists. do you see it as a battle within the catholic church within those three camps, or is it more complicated, nuanced than that? matthew: i think it is more nuanced than that. particularly as we look at catholicism as a global entity, the kinds of tags that we put onto the cardinals, whether they are progressive or conservative, centrist and so forth play out in different ways and different contexts. but i do think there will be a struggle. certainly, we have seen in the lead up to the conclave, conservative catholics from

primarily the united states, interestingly enough, trying to promote certain kinds of candidates. whether it will be a battle, i cannot say that. i do think they will choose a pope who is very much in the style of pope francis, but the question about doctrine and so forth is something they will have to reflect on. there will definitely be differing views. maryam: matthew, good to talk to you. thank you so much for taking the time to speak to us. for those of you just joining us here on bbc news, in the last 10 minutes, black smoke has billowed out of that chimney atop the sistine chapel, which means that for tonight, today at least, no decision has been made on who will be the next pope. no one man managed to get enough votes to make it on the first

round. these are pictures from earlier. the black smoke lasted about four or five minutes. austen, we got value for money. austen: i promised you there would be an ambiguous billowing of smoke. maryam: if it was a minute, i may have been disappointed. i waited for four hours for one minute of black smoke? that is definitely black smoke, no mistaking it. austen: that is all generated by this wonderful cartridge. it has the word nero on it. the other one says bianco. some things are black and white. maryam: we heard them predicting this would be a longer conclave because of tonight, longer than the last few. what do you think? austen: it is possible. they have been saying it is possible because of everything we have discussed.

the sheer diversity, the number, difficulty in reaching consensus together. it could be that something happened tonight, technical nature, medical nature that you were talking about. back in 2013, there was a recount because one ballot got attached to another, stuck. apparently because they stuck together, they had to do a recount. stuff like that happens. we will only find out after. maryam: sticky ballot issue? it sounds like your next book. austen: also remember, these cardinals, this is their first conclave for many of them. they have read the instructions, maybe someone did something wrong, and that forced a recount. who knows? maryam: a recount could be something that happened because there are 133 votes to count, reading them all one by one. but i have to say, it did take

an awfully long time, so one does wonder. do you think that we will know what happened tonight? austen: we will know. that sort of thing is not covered by the confidentiality oath. because it was just about one hour and a half over, that is about the time it takes to do things. right now, i'm leaning toward a possible explanation but we will find out afterwards but not until a new pope was elected. maryam: so what do you think this means in terms of who the new pope is going to be? does it ultimately matter how long the process takes, as long at the end of it, we have who the cardinals agree upon? austen: we can only go on what has happened in the previous conclave's, apart from the one in 1978 when they got stuck, there are four or five cardinals, front runners. that is revealed in the first ballot. when you have roughly that

number, the building from now on is all about -- the votes that have attached to other cardinals then travel toward those let's say four or five front runners. really it is a straightforward rabbit race from then on, or horserace. a question of which of those four can reach the two thirds. there will be lots of conversations over those steaming plates of pasta that we are now thinking about. maryam: you read my mind. austen: talking to each other. this guy, we have not thought about him, tell us about him. all of that stuff would be happening. that is what i call the alchemy of the conclave, mysterious to us on the outside, but something that works. maryam: i cannot explain how much of a pleasure it's been to have your company tonight. so wonderful. i know that we are going to do this again tomorrow. don't cry, it's ok. austen ivereigh, thank you very

much. for those of you watching on bbc news, thank you so much for your company. just to reiterate what we know this evening, the black smoke that we saw earlier coming out of that chimney on the sistine chapel means that no pope has been elected tonight here in the vatican. the conclave continues. it will carry on with more voting tomorrow morning. i will be here with austen to cover that event for you live on bbc news. around the world and across the u.k., you are watching bbc news. ♪

>> you are watching "the context " on bbc news. pakistan has accused india of indicting a for inferno in the region by killing at least 26 people in a series of missile strikes and shootings. several sites in pakistan or

pakistan administered kashmir were hit including this mosque. national security council says in actions caused grave danger to commercial airlines, endangering thousands of lives, and pakistan's armed forces had been authorized to take corresponding action. india said it hit nine sites, describing it as terrorist infrastructure. it said no military facilities were attacked. it also says 10 civilians were killed by pakistan shelling on the indian side of the border in kashmir known as the line of control. tensions between the nuclear armed neighbors have escalated since last month's attack in indian administered kashmir in which 26 civilians were killed. india accuses pakistan back in cross-border terrorism, a charge is not that strongly denies. this report. >> the smoldering remains of a home. shell casings from last night's gunfire.

mixed with broken bits of people's lives. villages like this along the line of indian controlled kashmir, pounded overnight into the morning. as india and pakistan exchanged artillery fire. reporting dozens of casualties on both sides. many of the injured residents were brought to this nearby hospital. one of the burn down homes we saw earlier belonged to him and his family. >> me and my children had barely enough time to run after two pakistani shells landed in the middle of our home. you have seen our loss, we have nothing left. >> india, under pressure domestically to respond to last month's attack when gunmen opened fire on tourists in the

indian administered kashmir. 26 people died. the deadliest attack on civilians in recent years. india blaming militants operating in pakistan and allegation pakistan denies. >> india exercised its right to respond and preempt as well as the term or such cross-border attacks. these actions were measured, not escalatory, proportionate, and responsive. >> and this was the response. india says it targeted and destroyed nine militant training camps operating in pakistan administered kashmir and beyond. pakistan says dozens of civilians were killed in those attacks, calling for military action an act of war. it is bowing retaliation. >> pakistan deserves the right and will respond to this aggression at a time, place, and

means of our own choice. >> as border towns and villages like this lay abandoned, people in the region are left hoping that this brings recent tensions to an end, and not really the beginning to a longer and more protracted conflict. >> since early this morning, there has been heavy artillery fire reported by locals living on the line of control. our correspondent has been escorted by the pakistani military from where she sent this report. >> communities grieving, swept in the fallout of india and pakistan's dispute. the military took us to pakistan administered kashmir in armored vehicles. india says it targeted military infrastructure based on credible intelligence. you might not be able to tell, but this was a place of prayer.

you can see there is still smoke on top of this mosque. pakistan says this was one of the targets of india's airstrikes. and it is sites like these and the fact that india has struck not only in pakistan administered kashmir but also in the province, it has communities here so shocked. >> this man was living next door to the mosque. his daughter was sleeping inside when the strike hit. >> my daughter was sleeping here. that is where she got injured. modi created this propaganda that terrorist live here. >> pakistan insists it was not involved in the attack. how it responds could determine whether this escalates into a bigger conflict. >> in the last few hours, we also heard from president donald trump about the situation in kashmir. pres. trump: so terrible. my position is, i get along with

both, i know both very well, and i want to see them work it out. i want to see them stop. hopefully they can stop now. they have gone tit for tat. hopefully they can stop now. we get along with both countries very well. good relationships with both. i don't want to see it. if i can do anything to help, i will be there. >> joining us now in joel rubin, former secretary assistant of state and the obama administration. we have the tit for tat, says mr. trump, they can resolve their differences. how likely is that right now? >> it will not happen if nobody helps them to resolve these differences. it is good that president trump is finally speaking out about this. it is a slow response, frankly. i guess he has been preoccupied with pressuring canada, our ally to the north, who poses no threat to american national security. but this needs to be taken seriously. when i served at the state

department, in the bush administration as well, i remember when the deputy went out to islamabad, made it clear they need to be a change in policy across the region. secretary powell, during the line of dispute back then, was very involved, speaking to the leaders aggressively, shutting down the potential more. that needs to happen again. >> iran has been talking about trying to mediate. once mr. trump sees that and registers, how likely is that to get him involved? >> it should motivate him, should it? as the president said, we have strong ties to both pakistan and india. we should be the country organizing multiple countries to put pressure on these nuclear powers to not go further. we should not be allowing our diplomatic power to diminish to the extent now where a country like iran is somehow seeing itself as an arbiter between these two powers that are

american allies. this is a real diminishment of american diplomatic leadership, and that is a concern. i hope the white house recognizes they are losing diplomatic power in a regional hotspot like pakistan. >> how much more of a risk is there from these hostilities over kashmir then we have seen in the past? >> this is always a conflict that tends to trip into the unknown. the scariness of this conflict is that they have about 350 nuclear warheads between them, if they were to attack them, we could have a global nuclear winter. that is a scenario that nobody wants to see. but there are no guard rails this relationship. this is the most unstable nuclear stared down that we have on the planet. that is why you need continual diplomacy from countries like the united states and of course others as well to put guardrails in place. these countries have fought many wars against each other.

very emotional conflict. kashmir is of course a tinderbox. but there is nothing naturally holding them back from going further except for pressure from the outside. >> we have seen pakistan approached the united nations about kashmir. how hopeful are you that that is a sign that pakistan want to find a resolution once and for all? >> i certainly hope they do. the united nations can be a strong forum for discussion about the future of kashmir. india needs to be signed up to that, as well. i'm not sure that will exactly happen. but i have to make this comment, when pakistan acts as if a terrorist attack that comes from his territory, had nothing to do with them, it echoes past did sensing, from example, hosting osama bin laden. it is not very credible. it would be good for them to be transparent about what is happening on their territory,

the work with india in the united nations in stamping out terrorist threats that may come into their territory. >> good to have you on "the context." thank you very much. let's remind you of what's been happening at the vatican and the sistine chapel in particular. a short while ago, later than expected, we saw this. black smoke coming from the chimney above the sistine chapel, meaning that so far a new pope has not been elected. the cardinals will gather in the vatican again and continue the process tomorrow. more on this on "the context." announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... financial services firm, raymond james. funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation,

the judy and peter blum kovler foundation, upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad. ♪ ♪ -bbc journalists here in ukraine. -across southern israel. -here in michigan. -beirut. -china. -italy. -russia. -paris. narrator: wherever news breaks, we're there. news anchor: live from washington, this is "bbc news." announcer: get the free pbs app now and stream the best of pbs.

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