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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  March 17, 2017 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT

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>> senor: welcome to the program, i'm dan senor filling in for charlie rose. we begin tonight with a conversation about european elections and the effect of pop lism across the world with walter russell meed, nell breyer and michael vos. >> whenever i went to holland and i went to explain done all trump, they said how is that whole pop lism thing working out for you in america. people look at that, i think americans sort of forget how crazy it looks, america, from europe. we're like it's a total kim kardashianization of american politics has happened. the dutch voters looked at that partly, this is part of the explanation, they looked and thought this is too much. we don't want this. >> senor: we conclude with singer songwriter jessica hoop. she talked to anthony mason about her career and new album, memories are now. >> i want to enter in and be
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mall eebl and see what someone else can draw out of me. i'm always really wanting thatment i perform i think my best when it's being asked of me. i think that's the mormon in me, the religious little girl. >> senor: european elections and jessica hoop when we continue. >> funding for charl yea rose is provided rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.
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>> senor: good evening, i'm dan senor filling in for carlie rose. just this week dutch voters went to the polls to vote in what che as one of the least exciting elections in the european calender. but the vote mat ared this year because of the wave of pop lism that is upending politics throughout the west. the dutch vote is the first of a trio of elections followed next month by france and then germany. that will tell us a lot about the future of europe. tonight we talk about what happened in this vote and what the future holds for political leaders ranging from angela merkel to maureen will pen, joining me in new york is michael vos, a u.s. correspondent for several dutch and belgium networks including rta and nell breyer of the marshalls scollers serks and walter russell mead from bard college and fellow at the hutchens institute. i'm pleased to welcome you to the program. michael, you covered this
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election in the netherlands closely, there was a lot of focus on it. everyone thought it was going to tell us a lot about the future of europe. why was everybody so focused on this selection and one particular rising star geert wilders wilders with yes, it was all about him, why the world looked at this. it was he who said enough with europe, enough with the muslims, enough with immigration. we have to stop this. we have to ban the koran, close the mosque in the netherlandss, prevent kids from heating halal food in schools. stop, i want to give holland back to the dutch. and we all know what that means. >> senor: it was some of the most strie dent anti-muslim rhetoric in europe. >> one of the most strie dent anti-muslim out there. he is one of the most open, like he says it like it is, that is why he gets votes. he says it, what we think, people say, he says it, we want ta guy. >> senor: and he was getting traction. >> he was getting traction, for a long time, he's getting
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traction of course we have this whole issue with immigration, we have an issue with security in europe. so he did well. but he didn't do good enough because a lot of people whenever you go to holland and i went a lot of times the last few weeks, months to explain donald trump and they always say so how is that whole populism thing working out for you in america. people look at that i think americans sort of forget how crazy it looks, america, from europe. we're like, it's the total kim kardashianization of american politics has happened. the dutch voters looked at that partly, this is part of the explanation. they looked and thought this is too much. this. i think that donald trump as a populist example, so to speak, for geert wilder to follow, sold very well as a candidate leading up to the election. he says we want that too, geert wilders is our guy, but now that it has to function it doesn't sell as well. i think people looked at the last six weeks and thought maybe not. >> senor: but the incumbent, mark rutte ran a pretty clever
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campaign it seems to manage this populism. >> of course, because all parties, most parties like mark rutte, the sitting prime minister, had to move a little to the right. because you know, to catch some wind out of that anti-immigrant rhetoric of geert wilders they had to move to the right. and they did. they knowledged themselves to the right and said things like we have to be firm on the borders. we have to get brussels under control. all these things. and then out of the high-hat came this whole president erdogan in turkey decided over sort of a diplomatic spat over whether turkish ministers could speak in holland for turkish dutch nationals yes or no, we said the dutch said no, you cannot speak in front of those people. we sent him out, literally escorted them out. >> senor: there was a referendum that would strengthen the turkish president's powers and he wanted to rev up the turkish disaparu m so he sends a foreign minister to the netherlands and this moderate
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incumbent prime minister who was supposed to be on his back heels politly basically said are you not welcome. >> basically, and that is all undutch. we are the tolerant people, this time he said no. we're going to protect our borders, for the first time many people told me today, he put his back into it and said i'm not going to let you speak to your dutch turkish nationals in the netherlands, then turkey sent a second minister. we also denied her access, that lead to a huge spat in which erdogan made i think the foolish mistake to call us nadzi remnants what is happening in holland, nazi remnants, fascist, this is not allowed. and then all of europe suddenly came to the aid, to the help of this lonely prime minister who took it on for the dutch to say you know what, if you want to speak here in my country, you have to play by our rulings. you can't just come in and stonewall your way to your referendum. those are my rules. and that lead to, i think, also gave him a platform to be prime
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minister, to be, you would say in america, statesman like, and did he it. >> senor: but also to be populist. >> to be popu list and tough on security and nationalist. >> everything geert wilder had been saying with more edge and nasdaqiness, he was able to say these things in the last week, and of course that matters, it always matters in the last weeks what happens, and be able to be the statesman. and people said he could do it. >> senor: so he wins the election. >> so he wins the election. >> senor: so walter if you are, today, angela merkel, or you are macron in france trying to figure out how to navigate your own elections in germany and france respectively in the next few months, you look at the outcome in the netherlands and think what? >> you think different things depending whether you are in germany or france. the situations are very ink the takeaway here from the netherlands for europe is that you know, the good news is the
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populists lost, but the bad news is the establishment still has really no idea what to do. and this, you know, this is for macron in france, the problem is what is french policy going to be? how do you make the french economy grow. how do you deal with the french problems with immigrants? for merkel, it's how do you, you know, germany has been doing fine with the euro the way it is. but italy, spain, greece, even france, their economies are still suffering as a result of the crisis. so you know, the populists have failed to shake europe, but europe hasn't stopped getting sicker. i think that's what merkel and macron probably are really worried about. >> senor: and to be straight clear here, wilders ran as part of his platform that he was going to get the netherlands out of the eu so it would have been the next domino to fall in the
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european project. so i want to talk specifically about a couple of these leaders and these countries. so the new leader in germany, the threat to merkel is schultz, the leader of the socialist, what they call the leftist center party in germany. he was president of the european union. he has been a product of brussels for like a couple of decades. so walter, how does he then become the challenge to the proeu merkel lead status quo? >> well, first of all, in germany the eu is actually much more popular than it is in a lot of the rest of europe. and so is the euro. the euro has actually worked extremely well for germany in that germany is a a big export surplus. if it had its own currency the marq would go sky high, germany has a huge export surplus and
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the problems of the other eur mean-- german's down, right now the status quoa in europe is working for germany and a few other countries. so it's not all that surprising that in germany you're seeing something more like a traditional european election between the center left candidate schultz and the center right candidate merkel. >> senor: but on the security issue, do you think there is anything they saw in the dutch election that has changed anybody's political kal you can lus in germany in terms of how to handle the my grant issue, potential terrorist threats from, you know, perceived terrorist threats that come from the my grants, the numbers of the-- people coming in, the muslim population growing, is there anything there where the candidates differ, where merkel pay differ from martin schultz or where merkel may now do things differently as a result of what she has seen in the dutch elections? >> again, you know, the shift in
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erdogan from being, you know, what many saw as a hope for the first real islamist democratic leader in the world, to someone who looks increasingly not only like an author tairian but an avowed enemy of europe, that has shifted the calculation for a lot of people. and at the same time, both schultz and merkel understand that the only thing keeping new waves of syrian and other refugees out of the eu is in agreement that the eu has made with merkel. sorry, with erdogan, that turkey is essentially holding immigrants back from europe. erdogan knows this. erdogan knows that in the, you know, the run-up to elections in germany or at any point, he can sort of allow that wave to come back in and create a massive political crisis in germany. so i think everybody in germany
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is focused on that issue. meanwhile by the way, let's not forget that in germany unlike in the netherlands people also worry a good deal about russia. and so in germany you're looking at two serious security threats, challenges to european order, with not a lot of clarity i think at this point on how do you deal with them. >> senor: okay, but picking up on walter's point, how by a factor is the russian quote unquote threat to europe in all of this? how much are these european leaders deeply concerned about where russia fits in? >> i think they are deeply concerned. i think that i think we have all been paying attention over the last year to russia's role both in potentially destabilizing what we've seen as democracies and a coherent international order in the western hemisphere. i think there isn't a politician out there that isn't some what
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amazed by the resurgence of power from that country. and i think that the u.n., i think there's all kinds of discussion about how that is unfolding. >> senor: and russia meddling in some of these elections in europe? >> i think the prensz of russia and on all levels. i think whether we are talking about cybersecurity, whether you are talking about-- . >> senor: covert, everything. >> yeah, exactly. i think that the real question that was-- that was raised here is we are at an inflection point. and i have been thinking with these marshal-- marshall scollers without benefited from the special relationship between the u.k. and the u.s., 70 years after the marshall plan, what is the international order today. we've had 70 years of peace and stability based on a important gesture that the united states made to many countries in europe, the netherlands, germany, the u.k., many others.
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establishing the rule of law, democracy, establishing encouragement of liberal trade policies. and institutions or organizations like the u.n. and like nato that help resolve disputes. and the question is do those still work today. and we're hearing and feeling with brexit, with trump, with questioning around the effectiveness of the european union, there, it may not be a perfect fit but there are values underpinning that we still think are important. that's the question. >> senor: so on brexit specifically, what is the current-- just talk to us a little bit about the current state of play, because there's been action this week in parliament. >> yep. we, i think everyone is fully expecting that article 50 will-- . >> senor: be executed. >> be executed, absolutely. and then there is a two year fixed time line and a lot of
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trade negotiation and agreement. >> senor: parliament voted this week to launch. >> move forward. >> senor: so this is happening. >> there is this quiet movement about whether or not breakity can be slowed downment i'm deub yeses about it. >> it's happening and the present government is fully behind it. the question is how. and the question is, is there a way to keep eur strong. i think this whole great britain, britain is great movement, the idea of having close relationships with all these countries and with the united states is absolutely par mount. and the united kingdom is certainly made that politically clear. >> senor: i want to come back to you in one second. walter, one question following up from what nell said. nell made an eloquent case for the importance of preserving these institutions. explain to us why not that you have this vy, although you might, but explain to us why there is this incredible
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resonance right now across europe, even if geert wilders loss, it is clear that the gravity between the feet of politics in the netherlands and elsewhere has shifted. make the case if you can, i know it's not necessarily your view but make the case for why the shift is a reasonable, rational response to all these fourses. >> well, i wouldn't respond to it in quite the way the populists doment but i think there are some big things that they see that do push toward change. maybe the most important is that after world war ii we not only established a stable transatlantic international order within each country, we established a stable economic order. you know, i call this sometimes the blue model but you had corporate oligarchees in all these different countries with lifetime employment based on
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mass manufacturing employment, mass clerical employment, if you didn't do something wrong, you kept your nose clean, you would get a job when you came out of school and you would keep that job and get raises until you retired in a pretty secure retirement. not everybody but most people. people really liked that system. and we are saw an end to a hundred years of class conflict and of international conflict in europe because we found a way for the economy to kind of keep people happy in their daily lives. in the last few years, last 15, 20 years, that system has begun to break up for all kinds of reasons, globalization, automation, just a variety of things are happening. and so people feel less secure in their daily lives. they sense that political a lets and economic elites are maybe are fine with these changes.
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the average people often are not. and so you get resentment and you get distrust. at the same time, in the international system, we thought that after 1990 essentially what we had to do was kind of what west germany did and east germany. extend the systems, extend the institutions and the values of the west into the east. and this was going to be, you know, maybe some problems but basically it was going to work and that even russia was going to become this beautiful western style democracy. so you could expand nato all the way out and there's no reason to worry about provoking russia because russia, the arc of history would bend in the right direction. and russia would become a smiling democracy. maybe one day a member of nato. >> right. >> you know, so when none, when that stuff didn't happen, and russia began to push back,
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turkey has defected, essentially from the west. china has moved to become more antagonistic. iran has broken the order in the middle east. people do not, whether they are in america or europe or many other places, people say this isn't the future you told us was coming. >> can i ask, i would be interested to know, do you feel this is a moment where similar to the marshall plan, a case needs to be made both to the american people, a case needs to be made to different peoples in europe, to explain what is the international order. what are the institutions that will work. we are in a different world, a globalized economy, technology cally and regionally isou are different today. so is this a turning point or is this an inflection point where a real case needs to be made? >> i don't think anybody has the answers. >> right. >> you know, this is, you know,
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how do you restore full employment and lifetime job security. nobody really knows. >> right. >> and that after 1945, increasingly in the west we thought we understood where capitalism and history were taking us. i think what we've now reached is we sort of have turned a corner and the old rules aren't working and we don't know yet what the new rules are going to be. >> it's true, we don't know. and let's not forget, we talk about europe in very broad strokes here which is normal because we're americans and we like to talk in broad strokes about europe. that's what we do. all politics, i hate to repeat this entire cliche but all politics is so local am you know what part of the elections was about? about pengs premiums and about health care. but like our version of obama care. geert wilders didn't have the answers. that doesn't make for good conversation at this table. we want to talk to dan senor about the global things that are happening. european union are they out, in
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or out. i totally understand. and one more thing, you've been around a few elections. every four years the collective sort of international press descends upon that little country by the sea called the netherlanders where they speed skate and have a king and they have a queen from argentina, oh how cute and they write that one every four year piece about that country that was once tolerant and now has basically starting to vote for this guy who wants to say no to immigration, integration, anything. and then of course there was a lot of snacker and a lot of engineer in the dutch press over the last few days how they sort of like saw this par chute journalism, the big guns coming in from "the new york times," fox news, cnn and they all wrote that piece. then they move on, go to paris, about the next piece. but it's all local. it's all about pengs plans and retirement age. and he didn't have answers. so they voted for the guy who was already holding office who had better answers. >> i agree with you that. >> it is sort of like boring and small but.
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>> but there's no, i agree that there is no uniform set of issues, on the one hand. and on the other hand it appears that each of these countries are looking for their vessel to blow up the system. >> yes. >> to really challenge the status quo. so in the case of germany if, in fact, the leader is the new wilders. >> but right. >> is he trying to market himself as this vessel, will pen is a known queunt as you-- le pen is a known quantity as you and i were discussing earlier. >> they are all looking for a trump. e brexit campaign said i think we heard enough from the experts. it was a clever device, he didn't say it is not our experts versus your experts. it's we're done with the experts. so my question for you now is, now that brexit is actually happening, the reality of it is
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happening, do you think in the u.k. people are still of the view we're done with the experts? is this revolt against the experts a new phase we're going to be in for a long time? >> i think unfortunately it may be. i don't think there is a clear shift back to the experts. at least from what i can gather from my colleagues over in the u.k i think there is a general populist sentiments and i think that has remained. i think that remains in this country. and i am not exactly sure what will change that tide. it is in the ether right now. >> what you could do is, walter said, you can do good governing. the stitting prime minister with his unexplicable last name, rutte did good governing. people said he is doing a fine job. he lost seats but is he still the biggest party. then we have this weird system where in hold and, this is typical of course, that the number two, geert wilders will
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be number two. is he not going to be able to play with the others in the sand box because they already said we're not going to play with you, we'll play with number three, four, seven, eight, we'll make a coalition. we have 28 parties, a totally different system. >> the ballot box is like a book let, it is insane. of course, and in america you have at least, foo tastes and if you bin you win. there is no discussion. here, old europe, thank you donald rumsfeld, we make a coalso and it takes weeks or months to make this colation and-- coalition and we're not going to play with number two but three, four and pfeiffer. but in the end, good governing, doing your best and talking about pengs plans and all stuff that we don't want to talk about here because it doesn't fit about the narrative of where are the european countries going, in the end that could be a good answer to a populist revolt. a populist-- revolt. >> i have to adhere though that you yourself said earlier that one of the reasons he did well was because he basically heated up the confrontation between quote the west and quote islam or turkey. >> that is true. >> and that he dem goinged to
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win-- dem agogged to win because he had to. >> he learned from the master, geert wilders, he said i will nuj a little to the right. >> that's not good governing and i would say also a major diplomatic incident with turkey, one that is inflaming a serious crisis in europe's southeast, is not a small concession to populism, it's basically will be the equivalent of hillary clinton having said i'm going to build a bigger wall than donald trumple. >> i mean merkel now after having let in a couple of million my grants into the country which has become a massive political liability for her, leaving aside the merits of the policy, it has become a problem for her politically, now there is talk that she in the leadup to her own re-election campaign is quote unquote going to get tough on immigration or tougher than she has been. is she learning from this example? >> well, i think look, i think her migration policy, her original migration policy is just not sustainable. because it not only was causing
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a political crisis inside germany, it was causing a massive crisis inside the eu. because the eu was going to tell every country how many refugees their allocation was. and that was driving everybody crazy. so she can't do that. and again, i say the focus is probably going to be on turkey. cuz turkey is the country that on the one hand is sort of trashing european values, you know, is locking up journal irses. >> and yet eur is depend ent on this guy to protect its frontier from my grants. this is a really difficult problem. and i think it is going to consume the german government and it's going to be a problem for the opposition. because in a sense, both, both approaches are sort of intolerable if you say you're serious about european values. you know, you can't just turn your back on starving,
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endangered rev guys. on the other hand, you can't embrace an author tairian dictatedder. so it's a mess. it's a real mess. >> but that question of pie graition is a shared both fear and policy and question across all of these countries, and the u.s. it's been at the center and it's. >> how many-- how big is the muslim population in the netherlanders? >> i think it is one million on a population of one sixth. more than 16 million. >> how many. >> 400,000 turks. >> you see 65 million people around the world are displaced, either within their own country or out of their country. 65 million. i mean it's an enormous problem. >> it's the largest number since world war two. >> it is an enormous crisis. >> senor: so there is no quick fix which is why politicians are finding interim moves to get them through their next election. go ahead. >> people that you never see in dutch politics, tu sk and yu mker suddenly speaking on the floors of the supreme parliament in favor of the netherlanders
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against turkey, i'm sorry the president of theu p commission and president of the european union to make it all very clear, they were standing up for the dutch reaction against the turks. and i think that it was tu sk who said turkey, don't forget you want to join us, we don't want to join you. you want to join us. it suddenly brought out where were these people, finally we have a european feeling we haven't had. everybody, me included, we always complained what is europe, we don't know what it is other than labels you have to abide by when you buy. >> all you needed was an enemy. >> yeah, exactly. >> that is because an excellent point, which is the question of how does patriotism exist in 2017 and what are the defining features of an identity of a country that now has access to everything, has images and consumer items everywhere. could be working for another country in any moment in time. that's the question. >> to bring you back to-- we are the least nationalist country there is. we only fly the flag once a year, nobody even knows where
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the flag is, somebody has to get it in the attic, it's dusty but we fly the flag. when turkey said you were a bunch of nazi remnants, that was classic. >> i am just having the spirit of samuel huntington saying in the background, i told you saw, i told you so, i told you so, europe and the islamic world are drifting toward a clash of civilizations even though most thoughtful people in both sides don't want it to happen. but there's this logic to events that is step by step creating something very ugly and frightening. to me far more frightening than the specter of european pop lism. so for me it was a much more significant result of this election that the polarization between europe and turkey deeply increased. that's much more important than the dutch populists lost a few points of what they hoped they
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would get in the vote. >> that's a good point. >> walter with that, given how important turkey is to europe for all the reasons, given the importance of turkey to the united states or the complicated relationship we have with turkey, if you were advising u.s. policy makers, what would you tell them? you say europe is a mess. everyone and this table agrees that there aren't any easy ways out of this. does this matter to u.s. policy makers? should it? >> in my view it should. and here's-- the lesson we picked up 70 years ago was that if europe has a bad day, sooner or later the united states will too. that war and mass unrest and destruction in europe is not something the united states can ignore, foreign tirely selfish reasons. if you get right down to it. so you need, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. i would say the u.s. needs to work hard with our-- be much more deeply engaged with
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europeans to help assist and think through some kind of way to a genuine european future, and at the same time, you know, the situation in the middle east has become, i mean you know, if you had said in 2009 that when obama leaves office eight years after taking it over from george w. bush the middle east is going to be a much more hideous mess than it was under bush, everybody would say you're a terrible racist. >> or if anyone said. >> how can you possibly say that about our great enlightened president obama. i'm not saying everything that happened in the middle east was obama's fault. there are a lot of indigenous process there that are unraveling. and some of them, indeed, past administrations have contributed to. never the less, this is a disaster and a danger of historic proportions, and we're watching the fiery death and
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rebirth of a middle eastern order. we don't know what it's going to be. but this newly assertive turkey, i think erdogan is bringing together turkish nationalism and islamism into a new kind of synthesis. i don't think he knows where this horse will go. but i think he plans to ride it absolutely as far and fast as he can. >> we will wrap up here, walter, russell mead in washington d.c., walter and michael vos, and i'm pleased to say charlie rose will be right back here at this table next week. we all look forward to that. good evening, i'm anthony mason filling in for charlie rose. jessica hoop is here, the california born manchester eng-- england based musician is best known for her raw and original songwriter. her new album memories are now is being called a return to herodly structured songs and daring rhythmic turns.
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"rolling stone" magazine writes hoop has recaptured her quick-- romant civil and it is swooningly lovely. here is jessica hoop performing pegasy in our studio. ♪ i found a nt in high meter. ♪ you pulled out my. ♪ all these stars. wings. ♪ like poetry. ♪ when we're in love. ♪ we're alive.
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♪ we're the envy of the sky. ♪ but i feel today. ♪ whennive do all i can. ♪ i won't bend but i will break under the weight. ♪ because you broke within me. ♪ what others could not. ♪ i serve in the wind and do your bidding day by day. ♪ with your firm strong hands. ♪ go steady toward the north. ♪ the good old girl. ♪ will still stream forth. ♪ when we're in love we're
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alive. ♪ you're the envy of the sky. ♪ every ember wants ti ride. ♪ but i stillee the day. ♪ when i do all i can. ♪ i won't bend but i will break under the weight. ♪ star, star. ♪ ♪ i served my rider well. ♪ i took it to my fight. ♪ still i took their bridal
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free. ♪ am i 9 beloved rider from the stars to the sea. ♪ ♪ when we're in love. ♪ we're alive. ♪ you're the envy of the sky. ♪ every ember. ♪ wants to ride. ♪ but i still see the day. ♪ when i've been do all can i. ♪ i won't bend but i will break under the weight. ♪
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♪ and i am pleased to welcome jessica hoop to the table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you so much for having me it's tbreat to you have here the 58 bum is called memories are now, i love that title and phrase. and you have said that that song is actually kind ever a bit of medicine for you. >> it is. >> how so. >> when i started writing the songs, i sort of-- i did think about it like lifting cursive. not that i am superstitious but i am romantic. so i approached it like cursive. and the title tracks are a cast of affirmations that help me work through blocks. >> part of the lyric is i lived enough life, i earned pie
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stripes, clear the way i'm coming through. >> that's my knife in the ground. this is mine. memories are now. ♪. memories are now. ♪ i won't be there. ♪ i'm only here. ♪ memories are now. ♪ you haven't broken me yet. ♪ you'll scare me to death. ♪ you don't scare me so old. ♪ is i have lived in this life. ♪ with my knife in the ground this is mine. ♪ i'm coming through. ♪ no matter what you say. ♪ i have got work to be doing. ♪ come on.
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♪ let me. >> you have had such an interesting path which started in california, growing up in a mormon family with four brothers and sisters. >> i'm the middle of five. >> middle of five. >> and you broke the chain. >> i broke the chain. >> how did you break the chain. >> i think good fortune, i met a friend, i met a friend who was my first chosen friend. my parents were also splitting at the time, so i kind of found an out. i was going to church like every day, every day. and then sometimes twice a day. so and that's all i knew but then i started to see other things through other people, my first chosen friend, her name was julie. and her parents were eight yases and just this little seed of a thought entered, hey, i am not supposed to friending with people outside my church but her parents are kind of okay.
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so why don't i give this a little bit more thought. and then i told, once they split i told my parents, i was just like, i'm going to church any more. and they were interested in reestablishing their lives. >> you were how old at this point. >> i think i was 14, i was 14. >> that is a pretty big thought at 14. >> i'm capable of big thoughts. >> uh-huh. >> you end up basically leaving home, at what page i kind of came and went for a little while at 15. you know, when are you taught that life is this thing and then then something completely different come as long. >> then you find yourself navigating. i just found myselfs in the throws of not understanding adult life at all. >> were you already writing songs at this point? >> i just started around that time. i think when my mother moved out
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and i started walking a longer stretch to school, hi so much walking to do. >> you were staying with your dad. >> i was staying with pie dad. and i had had these long stretches and i just entertained myself. they are making these really long-drawn-out five songs in one song kind of, you know, nonstructured just ram blee melodies. >> i do remember concentrating on melodies because i didn't know anything about structure. and there is in theory in my mus kallity, really, in my, you know, practice, anyway. >> i do have some technical training from my mother who was an amateur-- a soprano and from my childhood perspective she bas amazing. and my father was a folk inenthusiast so i was infused with music from my family and also from the church.
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and by the time i was like kind of no longer being paid attention to, and my parents were off doing their thing, i was just doing lots of writing and skating, skateboard. i used to ride a skateboard and just writing songs. >> right. >> so you end up 15 or so, you start kind of going off to places. and then i mean you end up on the road working and living for quite awhile. >> after rambling for some time, i was in the wilderness for awhile working in a wilderness program. and i was like thinking to myself i'm not making use of what i feel is my strongest set of tools. and what makes me the happiest. so i decided to climb off the mown tain, mountain dessert arizona and go back to california and start a band, fix up the house and then go from
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there. and pursue music. but that was quite late. >> yeah. >> you end up getting a job with tom waites. >> by some magical means. >> as his nanny to his three kids and his wife's three kids. >> it is true. and in a very, very long time ago. >> and to be honest with you, i don't really speak about it, because i find that the most precious things you need to hold in a quiet place. >> i understand 678 you have said, i think, i read that they were a couple of people without really at key moments were like stones that you climbed on to and ---- in the water. and that was one of those moments. >> yes, i was very, very fortunate that my path crossed with some amazing people who helped me. i was just this, i was a country kid who had no vision of a bridge, how to build a bridge between this world and the
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stages around the world or even a way to make a record. so in those early days i was very fortunate to meet some amazing people who helped me get started on the right path. for the long game. >> he put in a good word for your music. he said your music was like going swimming in a lake at night which is a wonderful image. you ended up getting a lot of exposure also on a california station kcr-w, seat of wonder particularically got a lot of notice. >> that's actually where i was trying to figure out where to move. and i had recorded this little batch of songs. and my publisher who has been with me now for 12 years, back then before he signed me, he sent my first recordings to nick at kcr-w. i was sleeping in my van. i was saving money, so i was sleeping in my van and i was going to move to either new york or l.a
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and nick harcourt calls me and says people want to know about this six and a half minute weird song. and i so moved, i just went where the going was going. and i moved to l.a. >> where did that take you when you started to get some attention from that song? >> that's strange. because it kind of took me from open door to shut doors. >> interesting. >> my passage has been like a kind ever a bloom that is kind of like this and it's very slow burning. >> burning fire but it took me to l.a. where i lived all around the city. and to building a network of music t took me to tony beggar who helped me make my first three records. >> write the secretary stone that you said you climbed up on was when you got a phone call from the lead singer of the band elbow. >> i'm actually going to say my first stone was my publisher
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lionel conway and my secretary stone was tony beggar. >> okay. >> because it's very porntd to note that the work is the most important thing, celebrity is and a musicians and friends and endorsement is all good but it's nothing without the people who help you get the work done. but he called me up. we did this interview and that lead to a freandship. >> you ended up in manchester, england, where the band was from. >> yeah, they kind of rule over there. >> uh-huh they do. >> they do it's pretty awesome. >> that's quite a switch. >> it was a total switch and a complete culture shock and i had no idea how, what i was really in for. >> you huh i mean in a small way in my own personal way, no idea what i was giving up moving from california to manchester. >> its with a difficult adjustment at first. >> yeah t was so exciting. hi no ties. i had fallen in love and i was-- i thoughtnd it's true
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that working in england is a-- it's, i don't know, it is smaller and it it assists you in some ways in its smallness quns because it feels more intimate. >> it's easier to reach the united states is so big and to reach the different markets for lack of a better word, to reach your people is harder. because they're everywhere and they're spread out. so in england they're tied together by a few sources rather than so many. so i was excitedded to go and take another crack at building on this music thing. and after hitting some walls in the states and then i just realized we speak the same language but this is not the same country, we're so different. we're so different. and i've been there for ten years now. >> is there much of manchester in your music? >> i don't know. i don't know.
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i wrote this whole record in manchester and nowhere else it all came in my little house in manchester but i can't tell. >> did you this record with blake mills who is a different guitarist and producer an where mr. you going with this new record with the waying somebody called it the other day, i a record of protest-- but when i began to take that on board i thought you're right, every song is confrontational, in a gentle way, i think. >> songs that are confrontational with yourself. >> yes, memories are now, is me battling where my own doubts or my own willingness to give up. which you clearly haven't done i
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won't, i think it's a mean joke sometimes when they tell you not to give up they tell you if you just hang in there. >> i think it is a mean joke but where we were going with this record, i gave a lot of that over to blake. i wanted to see where he would guide the process. and i really gave so much over and he wanted to strip it way back down. >> is it easy for you to give over to a producer? yeah, because i want to be used like raw material. i want to be i want to enter in an be mall able, i am always wanting that. i perform my best when it's being asked of me. i think that is the mormon in me, the religious little girl. >> and what do you think came out this time? >> of this record?
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>> yes. >> well, i think it's very kfer dense building, this one feels like-- and i condition say it's perfect. i don't necessarily believe in perfection. but i think i'm communicating very clearly. and in ways that i haven't before. and also about things that i'm passionate about. >> that's got to feel good. >> yeah, i'm particularly pleased with the last song. and someone the other day in an interview called it harsh on religion. >> the coming. >> i don't consider it harsh. i consider some of the things that it is addressing harsh. and by any stretch of the imagination, is my address any less than appropriate. >> uh-huh. >> the album is pem rees are now, jessica hoop, thank you so much for being here. >> my pleasure. >> we leave with you another ngs of old.he album, here is
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snroat. ♪ its old oak door. ♪ leading to. ♪ with all my weight. ♪ ♪ paper thin. ♪ and a glimmer of gold. ♪ streams of colored lines. ♪ mama said the songs of old.
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♪ mama said the songs are old. ♪ ♪ ♪ rock of ages. ♪ rock of aging. ♪ ♪ yeah, yeah. ♪ deep the desire.
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♪ this time i walk. ♪ cellar key and cell ar door, i want to know. all these stories. ♪ never spoke en. ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ rock of ages. ♪ in the rock of ages. ♪ empire. ♪ rock of ages. ♪ disinging the rock of ages.
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♪ ♪ singing rock of ages. ♪ empires. ♪ singing of the rock of ages. ♪ hey. ♪ hey hey. ♪ .
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>> for more about this program and earlier episodes visited us online at and charlie funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.
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steves: salzburg's cathedral, constructed d in the early 160, was one of the first grand baroque buildings north of the alps. it's sunday morning. the 10:00 mass is famous for its music, and today it's mozart. enter the cathedral, and you're immersed in pure baroque grandeur. ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ since it was built in only about 15 years, the church boasts particularly harmonious art and architecture. in good baroque style, the art is symbolic, cohesive, and theatrical, creating a kind of festival procession that leads to the resurrected christ triumphing high above the altar. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ pacem ♪ music and the visual art complement each other. the organ loft fills the church with glorious sounds as mozart, 250 years after his birth, is still powering worship
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with his musical genius. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ pacem ♪
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>> the following kqed production was produced in high definition. [ ♪music ] >> it's all about licking your plate. >> the food was just fabulous. >> i should be in psychoanalysis for the amount of money i spend in restaurants. >> i had a horrible experience. >> i don't even think we were in the same restauran


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