tv PBS News Hour PBS August 20, 2010 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> lehrer: good evening. i'm jim lehrer. the israelis and palestinians agreed to resume direct peace talks in washington early next month. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, jeffrey brown talks to middle east analysts david makovsky and ghaith al-omari about the upcoming negotiations, the first in nearly two years. >> lehrer: then, we interview the pakistan foreign minister about the massive floods, the relief efforts, and the threat posed by militants. >> any government would find
this disaster challenging. any government whether it is the first world government or a third world government it is huge. >> woodruff: mark shields and michael gerson, sitting in for david brooks, offer their analysis. >> lehrer: we get some perspective on the indictment of baseball pitcher roger clemens from david epsteen of "sports illustrated." >> woodruff: and from our colleagues at georgia public broadcasting, we have the story of the discovery of a civil war era prison. >> the significance of finding the artifacts in the ground is that you're able to recover not just the artifact, but the information about how the artifact was left. >> lehrer: that's all ahead on tonight's newshour. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:
resume their long-stalled direct negotiations. jeffrey brown has our coverage. >> brown: the formal announcement that talks will resumeame from the secretary of state this morning. >> i've invited israeli prime minister netanyahu and palestinian authority president abbas to meet on september 2 in washington, d.c., to relaunch direct negotiations to resolve all final-status issues, which we believe can be completed within one year. >> brown: the israeli and palestinian leaders will meet after 20 months of no direct negotiations, a period that saw an intense war fought in gaza, and continued tensions over israeli settlements in jerusalem and the west bank. secretary clinton referenced the troubled past between the two sides, and the uncertain future. >> i ask the parties to persevere, to keep moving forward even through difficult times, and to continue working
to achieve a just and lasting peace in the region. >> brown: also invited to the talks: jordan's king abdullah, and egypt's president hosni mubarak, as well as former british prime minister tony blair, representing the so- called "quartet," which includes the u.s., european union, united nations, and russia. the obama administration's middle east envoy, former senator george mitchell, was asked, why now? >> we believe it's the recognition by the parties themselves, by their leaders-- prime minister netanyahu and president abbas-- that the best outcome is an agreement which results in two states living side by side in peace and security; and that the only way that can be achieved is through direct negotiations. >> brown: statements from both the israeli and palestinian
leadership offered cautious acceptance of the talks, while containing continued evidence of longstanding disagreements. the israelis praised the "american clarification that the talks would be without preconditions. reaching an agreement is a difficult challenge but is possible." palestinian lead negotiator saeb saeb erekat told reuters, "it can be done in less than a year. the most important thing now is to see to it that the israeli government refrains from settlement activities, incursions, fait accompli policies." u.s. officials made clear that hamas, the palestinian group that controls gaza, would have no role in the talks. >> let's be clear-- hamas won a legislative election. they acknowledge the continued executive authority of president abbas and his team, and it is
entirely appropriate that we negotiate with the executive head of that government. >> brown: and in gaza today, hamas leader ismail haniyeh called on palestinian authority president abbas not to join the talks. >> ( translated ): we don't see any advantage in the renewal of the peace talks. it is a continuation of the unclear political path. as long as the palestinian negotiating team is not backed up with the palestinian unity, and as long as they have no other options, for sure, they will obey the demands of the quartet or the americans. >> brown: the israeli and palestinian leaders will gather, however, at the white house september 1 for a dinner hosted by president obama. for more on the upcoming talks, we go to: david makovsky, a senior fellow at the washington institute. he is co-author of "myths, illusions and peace." and ghaith al-omari, advocacy director at the american task force on palestine, and a fellow at the center for american progress.
he is a former aide to president abbas. ghaith al-omari what is your answer to the question posed today, why now? >> why now because i think there's a belief in both, among the palestinians and among the israelis as well as in this country, that a two-state solution is essential for the future of all parties. we have gone through the prep practice tore work, the indirect talks and it's time to talk now. we are coming up to september which was promising to be a difficult month. the settlement moratorium was slated to end there. the u.n. general assembly is to convene. and we need to have progress fore these events so we can maintain a degree of stability in the region and political process. >> brown: and yet david mackov-- makovsky all kinds of issues over the last months and no direct talks, so why, what propels s it that september deadline for the end of the moratorium or what do you see. >> i agree that basically
september is a key month and if the moderates don't show progress the only people that gain are the radicals. i think you've got two milestones on the road today. one was july 6th and that was the o baman-- obam obama-netanyahu meeting and what was really interesting and stayed out of the press is it was the president himself who turned out to be the biggest proponent for direct talks and pushed him hard that led him to talk to at rab states on july 29th when they convened and called for direct talks, saying of course the timing was up to abbas. but it was really the u.s. working this with the a man-- arab states because abbas told the united states you want me, i need the arabs. get the arabs and then you can get me. so i think barack obama who, i think had strained relations before with israel-- . >> brown: waebts that meeting you are referring to smooth over exactly those kinds of problems they been having. >> yeah, it was spooting over problem sois think it went beyond that.
when o billiona came out of that july 6th meeting with netanyahu and said it was an eck excellent meeting, we've heard a lot of buzz both here and in washington and the middle east suggesting that netanyahu shared his bottom line for how he saw the end game with the palestinians, for the first time with this president. and i think that had a big impact on the president's thinking. we don't know this for sure. everyone is mum on this but i think the president, i think, really quicked-- kicked into gear here and really mobilized the arab states. and that's what helped facilitate abbas to come to the table. >> brown: now ghaith, secretary clinton and senator mitchell talked today about the so-called final status issues. they would all be on the table. now just to tick that off, boundaries for future palestinian state, security guarantees for israel, the status of israel, the status of jerusalem, excuse me, the jewish settlements on the west bank and the so-called right of return for palestinian refugees.
those are a lot of tough issues that have been around for a long time. were do you see-- where do you see a starting point or a focal point. >> there has been tremendous progress made since the late, the end of the last century. we know by and large what the final map is going to look like in terms it of the final boundaries. the other issues are obviously important. it's up to the parties to decide where they start. but i have heard the palestinians repeatedly say they want to start with security and borders. and of course that includes settlements. and these are the issues where the two parties are closer. all of that said, the palestinians cannot sign to a piece of paper that does not cover all of the issues. so i think they will start with topics where they are closest. and use that to propel them to the more difficult issues. all of that said, though, i think the challenge initially is not in the negotiating room but how do you create among this existing atmosphere of mistrust, how do you create a political environment that's conducive
to the continuation of negotiations. that's why we saw secretary clinton today talking about the need to continue supporting the palestinians institution building programs, building the economy, building security. we have to work both in the negotiating room but in the create the right kind of environment to support it. >> brown: those kinds of tensions are not only between the two sides but within each side as well, the internal tensions. >> there's no doubt. i was just out there and i spent time in ramallah, i spent time in israel. and president abbas invited me to lunch. and i asked him straightly about hamas. and about, you know, what he thought about that. he said david, look, iran gives hamas 500 million dollars a year. and to me it was clear that he saw them more as part of the problem than part of the solution. and i think it gets to the broader question, which is what is propelling these parties forward at this time. is that if israel and the pa,
the palestinian authority cannot find a way to solve their problems the only people who are going to win are the radicals. and the alternative is not the h, datha women of brook lin. i believe you have to go forward. i believe with you need a broader fame work, an environment that is conducive. they've done settlements. but ensuring that palestinian insightment is drop so that is not an inflammatory issue. you need a broader environment for peace. >> brown: but doesn't prime minister netanyahu have his own issues, his coalitions, will have all kinds of pressures from his right. >> absolutely. and my bet, if we had a bet, way sigh-- i would say he will hold the talks himself. whatever the launch going to look like t is going to be abbas and netanyahu. he nears leaks. each one of these issues are political dine hit for him with his coalition. my own private view is that he's going to have to broaden his government to
bring in elements of the opposition, the kadima party, not in place of netanyahu but alongside him and mr. barak to give him the political where withal because i'm not convinced that he could do it otherwise. >> brown: what is the u.s. role here, what is the... they were very careful today to say this was a bipartisan or bilateral negotiation that they would step in with ideas if necessary. will they have to and what ideas do they bring to the table. and what is the strength or weakness of the u.s. comes to the table? >> i think it's proper that the u.s. makes it clear that the parties have to own the process. i think this is important for political reasons and for diplomatic reasons. however the u.s. has been very heavily involved in making this moment happen. and i think the u.s. will continue to be involved. it is too premature to talk about american ideas on the table. we have to wait and see. we have to see where the parties are. where the gaps are. and based on that we will
see what the u.s. role is. as david, i will planerize him, he likes to say you can bridge over a river but not an ocean. ultimately american bridging pro posal will be very helpful. when we reach the point and moment, the moment of decision where differences are identifiable and clear, until then, though, the u.s. has a very important role to play. important role to play in terms of ensuring that the code of conduct is adhered to on both parties. on the israeli side the issue of settlement expansion, of home demolitions and incursions and issues of this sort. and on the palestinian side, the issues of preventing terrorism, reducing insightment and continuing with democratization. so they have a road both inside the negotiationing room but in the legislation in creating the right kind of atmosphere. >> brown: what do you look for to know if this is working. what is the y thing that you look for? >> look, i would look to see if netanyahu and abbas are doing this themselves. i think it's the most
serious if the leaders themselves engage. i agree that the issue of security and borders are going to be first and foremost. israel got out of gaza and got rockets. it has to know that the security is such that if you didn't like their book you won't want to see the moveie in the west bank so if they could focus on borders and security and have the broader strategic context that you just heard, i think then there is at least a chance here of some serious strides. >> brown: david makovsky, ghaith al-omari, thank you very much. >> woodruff: still to come on the newshour: pakistan's foreign minister on the floods; shields and gerson; the charges against pitcher roger clemens; and a civil war find. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreenivasan: three more coalition troops serving in afghanistan were killed today. in the south, an american soldier was killed in an explosion yesterday, and two nato troops died in a roadside bombing. 31 international troops have died in afghanistan so far in
august. an al qaeda group in iraq has claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing on iraqi army recruits. the blast happened tuesday outside army headquarters in baghdad. 61 potential army recruits were killed and at least 125 others were wounded. an appeals court in thailand ruled that a suspected russian arms dealer can be sent to the u.s. to face terror charges. 43-year-old viktor bout, also known as the "merchant of death," faces accusations he trafficked arms since the 1990s to conflict zones in africa, south america and the middle east. bout has been in a thai prison since his arrest in 2008. today, he vowed he would face trial in the u.s. and win. southern china has been hit with more torrential rains and flooding. hundreds have ready been killed after weeks of extreme weather. we have a report narrated by phil ray smith of independent television news. >> reporter: china's floods have left hundreds dead but the occupants of this
carriage had a lucky escape. they had all been safely evacuated by the time rescue pulled it from the track. the footage filmed inside earlier showed the panic on their faces. the conductor raised the alarm after passengers felt the bridge underneath them falling apart . >> reporter: rising floodwater had loosened the bridges base just minutes after the last passengers had made it off the train, two of the carriages they were in were swept downstream, caught in the foundations of a different bridge, 200 meters away. with 1300 passengers on board, it's a miracle no one was hurt and no one died. in the a town cameras caught an dramatic attempt to rescue a man on an es ca vater after rapidly rising water left him stranded. the torrent proved too strong for rescuers to reach him by boat. in the end they imagined to
throw him a rope and he was lifted off by crane. china has been devastated by flooding caused by unusually heavy summer rain in recent weeks. 7 >> sreenivasan: 73 pilot whales washed onto an isolated beach in northern new zealand, and 58 of them died. local authorities believe the whales were stranded on karikari beach during the night, and that they died before anyone discovered them. today, rescue volunteers tried to refloat the 15 surviving whales but were unsuccessful. tomorrow, a crane and transporter will try again. new zealand has one of the world's highest rates of whale strandings. back in the u.s., a recall of eggs was expanded again today when a second iowa farm announced its eggs could be contaminated with salmonella. llandale farms joined wright county farm in the recall. between the two companies, they ship eggs to at least 23 different states across the country. a spokesman from the food and drug administration said the two recalls are related. more than a thousand people have
been sickened by the outbreak. stocks were mixed on wall street today. the dow jones industrial average lost more than 57 points to close at 10,213. the nasdaq rose nearly one point to close above 2,179. for the week, the dow lost nine tenths of a percent; the nasdaq rose three tenths of a percent. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to judy. >> woodruff: now, the pakistan floods story. amid the continuing devastation of pakistan's floods, what some aid workers have feared the most-- the first reported death today from cholera. the local head of the world health organization said the w.h.o. does not anticipate an epidemic, but reported there have been other sporadic cases of the disease. >> the situation is very serious, and the worse has to come. we are receiving some good pledges.
we cannot buy drugs with pledges; we need to convert these into checks. >> woodruff: meanwhile, aid from pakistan's two closest neighbors began to flow in. an aid plane from china arrived in punjab, and pakistan agreed to accept a $5 million aid offer from long-time arch-rival india. the aid arrived amid continuing scenes of desperation. much of the aid has yet to reach the refugee camps. when it does, scenes of chaos emerge. those who haven't made it to the camps have even less. >> ( translated ): we are sitting here without food and clothing and starving. we lost our livestock, crops and belongings. nothing left. >> warner: 20 million people are affected by the disaster, and many have poured into makeshift camps, leaving everything behind.
>> ( translated ): we faced big problems when the flood water reached our village and ruined everything and left nothing. then, i gave birth to this baby, and now i am worried how i will take care of this baby and my other small children, how my future life will be. >> warner: more than six million people have been left homeless. the flooding now stretches almost the length of the country, from parts of the swat valley in the north, through punjab, and on to sindh province in the south. these satellite imageseleased today show the indus river that runs through the heart of pakistan on august 9, and again three days later, just before the second wave of flooding. those rising waters have left thousands waiting to be rescued, and the military is taking the lead. >> the pakistan navy started its relief operations and rescued about 90,000 people from disturbed areas.
these people were brought to safer locations. >> woodruff: rains have abated slightly in the last few days, but the monsoon season is expected to last several more weeks. for more on the floods in pakistan, i talked a short time ago to that country's foreign minister, shah mahmood qureshi. inister qureshi, thank you very much for talking with us. >> you're welcome. >> woodruff: what the latest you can tell us on the scale of this disaster and what your country is doing to deal with it? >> well, the scale is huge as you've learned, that over 20 million people have been affected. millions have been displaced. over a million houses are damaged. you know, physical intra structure like roads, bridges have been battered very badly by this unprecedented flood that we've had. you know, issues of water-borne disease are sort
of a big challenge that we are confronted with. i was hear in new york to address the special session of the u.n. assembly highlighting these issues and drawing world attention to this evolving situation, this unprecedented flood situation that we in pakistan are dealing withment we have mobilized all our national resources but we need international help and we need it now. >> woodruff: and how much of that help is coming? >> well, i would say the initial response was slow because the world was not aware of the magnitude of the challenge. but now i think it is pouring in. the nuchlt u.n. appealed launched the other day on the 11th of august of $460 million, i think from the response that i saw yesterday and today, i think that target will be met. but that's only the beginning. we have to look at the recovery and rehabilitation, reconstruction costs as well. >> woodruff: we heard last
night on the program from u.s. special representative richard holbrooke he told my colleague jim lehrer that ultimately the costs are going to run in the buildings. he did express concern about aid coming in from other nations. are you now satisfied that that aid is starting to come in as you need it? >> well, i think i'm satisfied to the extent that today i think i have been able to sensitize, you know, the world leaders who were present here yesterday and their representatives and senior officials who are at the session that this is a very serious, indeed a very alarming, critical situation. to that extent we have succeeded. but now to what extent the world responds, we'll have to wait and see. >> woodruff: one of the things ambassador holbrooke said last night was that china as of yesterday, it was not clear how much china was prepared to do.
now we know two planes, i understand, have arrived in pun jack-- punjab from the chinese, do you expect more? >> well, china has been giving us relief goods. they have provided us financial assistance as well. i believe they are now seeing some more today. they have also taken responsibility of some population up in the north pakistan area that has become inaccessible because of the loss of bridges on the way. so there was no road connection left for that area. and the only way you could access them was through the chinese board are and they have taken responsibility for about 27,000 people in that area. >> woodruff: the 5 million dollars in aid you are now getting from india, it took some time to work this out. what's the significance of that? >> well, we have been helping each other
in the past. they helped pakistan during the 2005 earthquake. we responded to them when they had natural disasters. so there is a precedent and we are neighbors. so this was a very welcome gesture on their part. and we in pakistan appreciate this gesture. >> woodruff: and political sensitivity to accepting that money from india? >> no, as i said there are past precedents. and you know, they've helped us and we've helped them. >> woodruff: we've also talked this week, mr. foreign minister, about on this program, we've discussed whether your government is capable of dealing with a disaster of this magnitude. how do you answer that question? >> i would say any government would find this disaster challenging, any government whether it's a first world government or a third world government. it is huge. and you have to understand that.
that is why despite all other sources, national resources, provincial resources, we will nd international help. >> woodruff: and to those, because there has been discussion about some extremist groups operating in pakistan, to anyone on the outside who for a political reason may be hes hess-- hesitant to make a contribution, what do you say? >> i think the overwhelming majority of the people of pakistan are against those militant groups. they have been cornered. we've been fighting them. we've had successful operations against them. we are a major ally of the united states and the free world in defeating extremism and terrorism. and we've paid a price, a human price, economic price. i think the world should stand by its ally in this hour of need. >> woodruff: and to sum this up, mr. foreign minister, how would you characterize the most urgent needs of
your people right now. >> well, the most urgent need today is relief. we have to provide them with food. we have to provide them with shelter. we have to provide them with medicines that protect them against water-borne disease. we have to cater to their rehabilitation, early recovery. you know, provide them assistance to return home and rebuild their homes. provide them to start their livelihoods again. you know. agriculture, most of the agriculture area has been the breadbasket has been hit very severely. so we'll have to provide them with seed and fertilizer so they can plant their coming winter crop. >> and just from a personal perspective, mr. minister, what is this mean to you? >> well, it's-- it's shaking,
it has shaken me like many, many pakistanis and many citizens all across the world to see this natural disaster. >> woodruff: we are going to leave it there foreign minister mahmood qureshi, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> lehrer: now, the analysis of shields and gerson. that's syndicated columnist mark shields and "washington post" columnist michael gerson. david brooks is off tonight. michael, there's been much commentary this week about the political problems of president obama. from you and others. >> right. >> lehrer: and you had a column today which said the heart of it is quote a gap between aspiration and reality. explain your premise. >> well, i think we saw some of that in the mosque controversy where the president first set out a very clear and ringing principles and then retreated from it significantly. but i think it applies more
broadly. i mean this is a president who campaigned to change washington, and we have even more bitter polarization. a candidate who was supposed to be beyond partisan division. 57% of americans believe he's too liberal. and the reality is you know, all politicians don't live up to their initial image. but that initial image for obama was a dramatic change, was supposed to be a dramatic change. and we just haven't seen those changes. so i think it hurts him more than most in a certain way because hopes were so high. >> lehrer: you buy that mark. >> i don't, jim. i mean i think michael's right. hopes were high. hopes have been dashed. there's a sense of disappointment. a sense of resignation. i think expectations were extraordinarily high. i mean it was part of it was that we were celebrating the fact that an african-american could be elected president of the united states. we felt awfully good about that and about ourselves, perhaps unrealistically so. as far as bringing, he has
not brought a different tone to washington. but i was just going over the figures on the republicans. if it is going to be bipartisan you've got have both sides. and when john mccain was a reformer with rust feingold writing the mccain feingold act which actually wrote out soft money out of the american politics, it was very controversy, hurt corporations, hurt labor unions, hurt big money people, individuals, 55 house republicans. now we're talking about just disclosing disclosing who made contributions to republicans. that is in the space of just nine years. i means that's a profound and significant difference. and i just think that president obama, if anything the criticism you hear from democrats is he spent too much time reaching across the aisle trying to get help. but i mean i think we're in a polar add-- polarized,
polarized political time. >> lehrer: takes two to tango. >> i do think there is plenty of blame to go around. but there's one person that is hurt most by the lowe lowered-- the performance as compared to the compensations. and that's the president who campaigned for an entirely different kind of politics. the way i put it in the column was that barack obama won the presidency by giving new voters in america intoxicating hopes. and that-- . >> lehrer: intoxicating hopes. >> intoxicating hopes and that makes the hangover even more difficult afterwards when those hopes are not met. i think that that is part of the narrative of this president. and you find it not just on the right, but you know, concern on the left. someone who promised to change that ethical atmosphere of the congress. that's not really been the priority. you find these criticisms on the left as well. so i think it's a broader narrative that is a destructive one for the president. >> the significant achievement... . >> lehrer: there was another column today in "the
washington post," eugene robinson want through all the things -- >> he is a historic president whether you are talking about national health care which democrats have been pushing for initially for 75 years, for financial regulation, which again was done overwhelmingly lipp lepp the on bipartisan figure that has emerged briefly was bob corker of tennessee who was a collaborator, conspirator with chris dodd on the financial regulation and then boy, he got pulled back, or jerked back or jerked himself back, however you want to put it. so you know, but for some very skillful legislating, we wouldn't have had anything. but i mean a stimulus package, the bank rescue, gm is back and on its feet. i mean there have been major accomplishments. the problem is unemployment. the problem is the economy is to the better. we haven't had a recovery summer. whoever came up with that phrase at the white house this is going to be the summer of recovery, ought to be in the aluminum siding
business by labor day. it isn't working out that way. >> lehrer: mark, what about, michael raised the point in his original thing that the mosque controversy and what the president, the new york mosque controversy and what the president said about that is an example of the kind of things, a recent example of what he is talking about. how do you see this the way the president has handled it? >> i think first of all, the president had a responsibility to speak to the issue. the issue was-- . >> lehrer: he had to say something. >> it had gone beyond new york it had become a national issue thanks if in large part to talk radio, but to distinguished american republican leaders including governor palin and former speaker gingrich who has redefined irresponsibility in this debate. so the president had a responsibility to speak. did he choose the right venue, a ramadan dinner at the white house, no. it was, it could even look like he was saying sometng to please the crowd. instead of doing it during a national conference of christians and jews or
something to an interfaith meeting. saturday when he qualified his unqualified endorsement of friday night, was that helpful, no. but i think there was a responsibility to speak. and i think he spoke to values that are eternal with americans. and jim, he had to speak because of what had been going on on the other side. i mean for newt gingrich to say that this is part of a conspiracy, to equate as he's done in his statements, to equate islam with al qaeda, islam is not al qaeda. michael's former employer put it so well, we were not attacked by the muslim religion on 9/11. we were attacked by al qaeda terrorists. than had become such an irresponsible and provocative. and i think incendiary debate that he had to address it. >> lehrer: do agree. >> i fundamentally agree with that. and i agree about the
gingrich approach on these things. the argument that somehow islam is fundamentally incompatible with american pluralism is a deeply dangerous argument. it's diadviceive at home it undermines in my view, i spent some time in the west wing, it undermines the war on terror. because you have to work with muslim allies all across the world in order to conduct this war. so the president of the united states when he faces these issues, he's not a commentator, you know, who says, concerned about the funding of a mosque here or the zoning rules there. you know, he has a duty. he has a duty to muslim citizens. he has a duty to our allies in iraq and afghanistan. we're fighting radicals at our side. and he can't tell them that your house of worship, your holy place is somehow a desecration of lowermanman. i don't think that is-- lower manhattan. i don't think this is possible. he faced the choice of doing seis lens or doing what he did, in my view. doesn't mean that he handled it effectively. i actually think he did. >> lehrer: because of the saturday change where he
said that i agree with the constitutional point but that doesn't mean i'm endorsing. >> i think the president was undercut by his own political team whom i'm not sure they realize how big a deal about was. there hadn't been consultation with the democratic leadership, with harry reid who had to distance himself in a tough senate race in nevada from the president's own comments. this really creates an impression of incompetence. >> lehrer: back to the republicans view on this, that mark you said you just agreed with it, michael, that your former boss george w. bush, why has he not spoken out on this issue? do you have any insight on that? >> well, i haven't talked to him about it but he has set a policy. he doesn't intervene on these issues either to hurt or to help the president. he's not part of these discussions and he's made a point of that. i don't think that's going to change to be honest. he's used that as a matter of a principaled commitment. but you know, i think it's clear where he was as president.
you have to make a division. i mean islamic radicals who wanted to be a civilizational conflict between islam and the west, okay, it's us who wanted to be everything. good people, people of goodwill is everything against a very small group of violent radical s. >> these people, jim, invoking islam and just ascribing the acts of al qaeda and the terrorist of islam, the rebuttal is from american history. the ku klux klan. the ku klux klan as they burnt people to death, as they nothinged people to death who worked white, native protestants americans, that was their sin. and particularly african-americans they did it with a burning cross. they did it while quoting scripture and saying they were doing it in a christia christian-- would we ascribe to christianity, those crimes that od-- odd cross
and pernicious behavior? no, any more than we would the 9/11 to islam. >> lehrer: what do you make of the pew polls that show roughly 18, 20% of the american people believe barack obama is a muslim. what's behind that? >> well, i think in part you can see his declining support. >> lehrer: this is before, actually. >> but the before the mosque controversy but it's all tied almost to a piece was he born in this country. and the best rebuttal i've ever heard on that was given by conservative mike huckabee, the former governor of arkansas. i asked him how do you handle that when people come up to and say he was not born. he was born in kenya, nigeria, mars, wherever the hell he was born. i turn them them and i say if you don't think he wasn't born here you don't think hillary would have found that out and used it against him in 2008. there is on talk radio, that is really an alive part of
making him the other. making him somebody other than an american. a socialist, you know, a foreign religion, foreign born. >> lehrer: it's all part of a piece. do you see it that way? >> i do. i agree with that. i think this is a reflection of polarization. it is a reflection of the a conspiratorial tendency on the internet which is true on left and right by the way. and so i, you know, i think, and it's not, but is not historically unprecedented. if you look back, people accused no-nothing accused abraham lincoln of being a secret catholic, okay. people accused franklin roosevelt of being a jew, okay, with policies that he pursued. there is a long history in america of people using these kind of attacks. but it was disturbing then and it's disturbing now. >> lehrer: but the idea that calling, that saying he is a muslim is an attack is part and parcel of this whole thing. >> it puts the president in a different position, you know, to object to this makes it sound like being, you know, if faith is somehow objectional which it
isn't. he shouldn't, i don't think, change, you know, carry a big bible around that would be deeply cynical and he's not going to do that. the good book says you should pray in a closet. that's i think pretty good political advice. >> it is fascinating, the attitude of presidents and religion. you have to belong to a church but you can't be too religious. we were people were suspicious of president carter because he admitted he prayed several times a day and governor romney, mitt romney's father george romney did. dwight eisenhower, until 12 months before he ran for president didn't belong to a church, okay. he had to join a church, he became a presbyterian. perfectly good church. as long as you have church membership are you apparently acceptable in the american political body. >> lehrer: mark, michael, thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: next, criminal charges against one of baseball's best known players. jeffrey brown has our story.
>> brown: 11-time all-star pitcher, seven-time cy young award winner, known as the "rocket" because of a fastball that helped him strike out so many batters during his 24-year career. roger clemens is now the latest baseball great facing criminal charges tied to his alleged use of performance enhancing drugs. the charges stem from testimony before congress in february 2008. >> let me be clear-- i have never taken steroids or h.g.h. >> brown: yesterday, a six-count indictment by a federal grand jury accused him of lying. clemens stood his ground, writing on twitter: no date has yet been set for the former pitcher's first court appearance. with us now is david epsteen, a staff writer for "sports illustrated." he's written extensively about
steroid use in sports for the magazine. david, welcome back. remind us briefly about the evidence as it is known so far against roger clemens. >> well, the biggest piece of evidence, of course, is that his personal strength coach brian mcnamee says he personally injected him with steroids. it says that he saved syringes with rogers dna on it with traces of steroids on it. and to corroborate some of the things he said, a close personal friend, former teammate of rogers, andy pettitte who really seemingly had to reason to lie about rogers use of drugs said that roger admitted to him that he had used human growth hormone. so some people who are really close to roger are going into great detail about his drug use and of course rogers's adamantly denying it. >> brown: so what is his reputation now on an off the mound. how big a fall from grace is this for what is, after all,
at least in baseball terms, one of the all time great pitchers. so where does that stand now? >> it's huge. on the field you're talking about a guy who is the best pitcher of his generation. now we've got the best hitter of his generation, barry bonds and the best pitcher of his generation, roger clemens, both under indictment for lying to investigators. or perjury, anyway. and it's a huge fall from grace. we have been absolutely a first ballot hall of famer, along with barry bonds. they're both up for voting for the first time in 2013. and off the field while he was seen as an intense guy, off the field he dealt with a lot of yourt program, what is seen as an icon for young people. and i think that, through all the reporting on, in the wake of the report, extramarital affairs have come out. he has been defiant , and it's been quite frankly strange from the admission that his wife was receiving growth hormone incorrections in their bedroom to his own behavior.
and i think it's really damaged his reputation both on and off the field. whether or not he is a quite-- acquitted or convicted in trial. >> brown: now he is sticking to his story. how does this play in baseball circles, in the world that you cover. is he getting support there, what is the situation? >> i think he's getting sport from players but players kind of tend to support each other because it's not really-- it doesn't play very well in the clubhouse if you are talking bad about other players or ex-players. and a lot of guys were part of the steroid era and they understand the pressures. i'm sure they sympathize this quite a bit and if they don't they are more likely to keep their mouth shut. at the same time i think a lot of people familiar with baseball are frankly surprised, not surprised at the indictment but sur prised that it took this long. because if you read the indut-- indict testimony largely seems like the things contained in it were contained basically the day of the congressional hearing. and talking to committee members and the
congressional committee right after the hearing occurred. you really got the sense that they felt like roger clemens had lied right then. >> . >> brown: so what's really been interesting to watch over the last couple of years now, and you watched it real carefully, you have some very prominent cases. you have roger clemens and you mentioned barry bonds. where they denied any use of illegal substances. then you had some other prominent athletes, notably alex rodriguez say yes, i did. and move on. different strategies. >> yeah, absolutely. and again in clemens's case you look at andy pettitte who admitted his use of human growth hormone, expressed contrition and it's like almost as if it never happened, you know. not that he's quite as big a name as roger clemens but clearly part of what has gone on with roger clemens and barry bonds is their defiant tone and the fact that they've kind of bread some bad blood around this. because the players that have admited it and said it was part of an era and kind of apologized have really moved on from it. and alex rodriguez who is as
big a name as roger clemens has some, it will come up again when he is approaching various records and when the hall of fame voting comes up but he has moved on that barry bonds or roger clemens has. >> brown: can you tell us briefly where do things stand in terms of the game, its intent on keeping it clean now? >> well, just recently major league baseball announced that they are instituting for the first time random, well, semi random testing for human growth hormone in the minors where they don't have to collectively bargain it because minor league players aren't part of a union. so it is a step in the right directional though they have already give answer way things about the timing of the testing which is going to be after ga, and growth hormone testing right now really isn't very effective. you have to test someone almost right after they take human growth hormone. and already major league players have expressed all kinds of doubts, you know, about whether they would want to be tested in that way, basically, which makes you think it will be difficult to collectively bargain. so i think baseball is somewhat serious about
containing-- continuing the program but they are really far away from having the quality that, for example, olympic testing has really far. >> brown: david epsteen of ""sports illustrated"", thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> lehrer: finally tonight, a civil war era find in rural georgia. this week, archaeologists unveiled their discovery of a confederate prison camp. our story comes from a project we call "newshour connect." that's where we showcase the best of public broadcasting from around the country. rickey bevington of georgia public broadcasting has tonight's report. >> reporter: the bo ginn national fish hatchery is a remote spot deep in the south georgia woods. being a federal facility, there are some administrative buildings, uniformed rangers, but also something unexpected. running right through the middle of a driveway is a brand new, eight-foot high chain-link fence topped by barbed wire.
it's protecting one of the most important civil war finds in decades. >> this may be our only chance, the one last site to tell this story. >> reporter: it's the story of camp lawton, one of the 36 war prisons run by the confederacy. kevin chapman and dr. sue moore oversee a team of student archeologists from georgia soutrn universy. during an exploratory dig earlier this year, they discovered the long-lost prison stockade. >> and that was a collective "oh, gosh" moment, where we all kind of backed up and stopped. and decided how we needed to move forward. >> reporter: in november 1864, 10,000 union prisoners would have been living behind a solid wall of tree trunks in an open stockade the size of about a dozen football fields, with only a small nearby creek for sanitation. camp lawton was evacuated after only a few weeks because federal forces were pushing deeper into the state. after that, it was essentially
forgotten. the community living here at the time of the civil war died out after the turn of the century, and with it, farming on this land. these artifacts have lain untouched for a century and half, until now. >> the significance of finding the artifacts in the ground is that you're able to recover not just the artifact, but the information about how the artifact was left. >> reporter: european coins show researchers that german and austrian immigrants of an ohio regiment lived in the stockade. the coins' location shows where in the stockade they lived. there are buttons, buckles, a tourniquet, jewelry. another find is unique among civil war artifacts-- a modified white clay pipe. >> it's a short piece of a white clay pipe. it didn't have a bowl on it, but there was a soldier here who had the stem, and he had a need-- he liked to smoke. and so he melted down musket
balls, and he cast a bowl to replace the bowl that had been lost. >> reporter: a civil war pipe can go for hundreds of dollars on the internet, and that explains the tight security-- to keep out the curious and relic hunters. tell me about the high security you put in place here when you found what you had here. >> the security is tight here to protect the piece of the property that's on fish and wildlife land. we wanted to make sure the site was safe. >> reporte there's the barbed wire atop the fence, hidden infrared motion detectors that trip security cameras, and round-the-clock patrols by local police. the artifacts are priceless to civil war scholarship. historian john derden says p.o.w. studies have long focused on georgia's other, more notorious prison, where 13,000 union men died at andersonville. at 42 acres, camp lawton was twice the size, with a better water supply and living
conditions. but derden says it's only now that that legacy can take hold. >> it might kind of redress the balance in the popular mind that tends to view the confederate prison system as just terrible, terrible; the union prison system as better. most modern scholarship today essentially has come to the conclusion that p.o.w.s were poorly treated, both north and south. >> reporter: historians hope to find untold new sources of information from camp lawton. so far, less than 1% of the site is excavated, leaving many stories still to be taken from the earth. >> woodruff: again, the major developments of the day: israel and the palestinians have agreed to resume their long- stalled direct negotiations. leaders will meet in washington in early september for face-to-face talks. aid from around the world began to arrive in pakistan for flood victims, and the pakistani government accepted $5 million in aid from india.
and a recall of eggs was expanded when a second iowa farm announced its eggs could be contaminated with salmonella. the newshour is always online. hari sreenivasan, in our newsroom, previews what's there. hari. >> sreenivasan: there's more from mark shields and michael gerson. they stopped by "the rundown" for a pre-show chat. on "patchwork nation," read about how president obama's support in the wealthier suburbs has changed since the 2008 election. plus on "art beat," jeff talks with filmmaker yael hersonski about her new documentary on an unfinished nazi propaganda film made in the warsaw ghetto. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> lehrer: and again to our honor roll of american service personnel killed in the iraq and afghanistan conflicts. we add them as their deaths are made official and photographs become available.
>> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight. on monday, we'll look at pakistan's swat valley under siege after the devastating floods. i'm judy woodruff. >> lehrer: and i'm jim lehrer. "washington week" can be seen later this evening on most pbs stations. we'll see you online, and again here monday evening. have a nice weekend. thank you and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:
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