>> chris: i'm chris wallace, and this is "fox news sunday." sarah palin takes on the president over immigration and his handling of the economy. what about her own political future? we'll find out in a "fox news sunday" exclusive. then, history on the hill. the top two republicans in congress join us for their first joint interview ever. senate leader mitch mcconnell and house leader john boehner, together only on "fox news sunday." and congressman charles rangel finds himself in serious ethics trouble. we'll ask our to sunday panel how much that could hurt

democratic chances in november. all right now on "fox news sunday." hello again from fox news in washington. first, some news and pictures you may not find in your sunday paper. in rhinebeck, new york, saturday, chelsea clinton married her long-time boyfriend marc mezvinsky. the bride was walked down the aisle by her proud father, the former president. the ceremony took place at sunset. it was conducted by a rabbi and a minister. hundreds of guests including celebrities from entertainment and politics joined the clintons for the festivities. ♪ ♪ >> chris: in america's news headquarters, the campaign for the midterm intensifies, we are going to talk with some top republicans. in a few minutes we sit down with the g.o.p. leaders in the house and senate for their first joint interview ever. but this month we're also going to talk with republicans who are being mentioned as prime contenders

for the 2012 presidential nomination. we begin with perhaps the g.o.p.'s most intriguing figure. former vice presidential candidate sarah palin, who joined us earlier from alaska. governor palin, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> thank you, chris. glad to get to be with you. >> chris: president obama now says the choice for november is between the party of bush that drove this country in to the ditch and the party of obama that has gotten us out. >> i think president obama is trying to deceive the public in pretending he was not a part of congress that has made some decisions in the past that got us to where we are today. it amazes me that he continues to look backward and blame solely president bush for the conundrum that we're in right now. president obama was a part of that. and this is one side of the argument that can be made against the comments that he wants americans to believe that he can get us out of

this, the problem we're in economically. we're not out of the problem. we have a jobless recovery. that is no recovery in the mind of most americans. >> chris: let's talk about some of the big issues that are going to come up in the mid-terms between now and november. a federal judge has now blocked the key provisions of the arizona immigration law. your response? >> well, this is a temporary suspension of some of the key elements in the law that jan brewer pushed hard for arizonans and for the rest of the country to have the result of us being more secure. it's unfortunate that the judge chose those steps, but it's temporary. jan brewer, bless her heart, she is going to do all she can to continue down the litigation path to allow secure borders, because she's -- jan brewer has the cojones that our president does not have to look out for all americans, not just arizonans, but all americans

in our desire of our to secure our borders and allow legal immigration to help build this country as was the purpose of immigration laws. if our own president will not enforce a federal law, more power to jan brewer and 44 other states who are in line to help support jan brewer in state laws, state efforts to do what our president won't do. >> but governor, let's look at the judge's ruling. you said there was no racial profiling in the law. the judge said there is a substantial likelihood that officers will wrongfully arrest legal resident aliens. you said it falls within arizona's authority. the judge said it creates a burden only the federal government has the authority to impose. >> i think there are some inconsistent arguments there, because we have seen state laws as it applies to sanctuary cities where some states are allowed in sanctuary cities and that

trumps the federal law. yet, nobody is saying boo about that. >> chris: she took up -- she did take up the sanctuary city and said they can ban those. >> but my point is if the obama administration did not put up a fight at all against this idea even of having the sanctuary cities and the judge did such a thing. but this is temporary. there are many, many more steps to take. jan brewer and other governors who are protecting their citizen, protecting the nation as a whole were very, very thankful that they're willing to go toe-to-toe and go all the way to the supreme court if needbe to get it resolved. >> chris: let's turn to the bush tax cuts, which are also becoming a big issue. bush tax cuts for the wealthy. the obama white house is now saying end the tax cuts. these are the tax cuts for the top 2% of all households in america. you can save $678 billion and it won't hurt the recovery. governor, if you are serious, as you say you are, about the

deficit, don't you have to do something? >> to reduce deficit spending, and our enormous debt you reign in spending. you cut the budget. you don't take more from the private sector and grow government it. that's exactly what obama has in mind with this expiration of bush tax cut proposal of his. his commitment to let the previous tax cuts expire are going to lead to even fewer job opportunities for americans. because it's the job creators who will be taxed. the fewer dollars they have to reinvest in their own businesses and hire more people the worse it is for all americans. no, you know, here again, the obama administration and the democrats in congress, they're all wed to this idea. it's idiotic to think of increasing taxes at a time like this. >> chris: but they would argue, look, the economy did just fine in the clinton years. rai rates on the top 2% would be restored to what they were in the clinton years.

the republicans keep talk about being deficit hawks. this is $678 billion you are not going to pay for. they're saying you are being hypocritica hypocritical. i say "you" and i'm talking about republicans. >> no, this is going to result in the largest tax increase in u.s. history. again, it's idiotic. my palm isn't large enough to have written all my notes down on what this tax increase, what it will result in. let me go through a couple of things that i want people to be aware of, because the spin coming from gibbs and the white house, you'll never get the truth from their messaging. democrats are poised to cause the largest tax increase in u.s. history, tax increase of $3.8 trillion in the next ten years and it will have an effect on every single american who pays income tax. small businesses especially will be hit hardest. small businesses account for roughly 70% of our job creation in this country. so raising taxes on these employers is the worst thing that can happen.

>> chris: let me ask you. what do you have written on your hand? >> $3.8 trillion in the next ten years so i have didn't say $3.7 trillion and get dinged by the liberals saying i didn't know what i was talking about. the higher income tax rates is going to result in things that people aren't understanding as a part of this. the reinstatement of the marriage penalty tax. cutting the child tax credit in half. higher investment taxes. capital gains taxes increasing 15 to 20%. qualified dividends, those taxes going up. elimination of certain exemptions and deductions and phasing out of personal exemptions. we could go on and on and on about what is a part of this expiration of the bush tax cuts that people i think are just superficially hearing information on. they need to delve in there and dig in there and get the information, get the facts and don't believe the spin coming from the white house. >> chris: i want to turn to one other issue with you; that is, afghanistan, where there are growing doubts about whether we're ever able

to establish a stable country with a strong central government. more and more people are now saying maybe we should pull out the big ground force, 100,000 american troops roughly and go back to trying to kill our enemy with special forces and drones. >> well, everything needs to be on the table in order to win this war on terror. we do need that strong ground force. we've been put in a weaker position, though. i believe we have to undo some of the decisions that president obama announced. we don't tell the enemy when it is that we're going to essentially wave the white flag and say we're leaving. we're in it to win it. if we're not, the american public needs to know that, too. we don't want to send our sons and daughters over there for some kind of futile effort, chris, that we're becoming war weary in this country. we want to know if we are engaged in such activity, where we're protecting our own country, we're helping to protect our allies, we had better be in it for if it's

the long haul, the long haul. but we better be in it to win it or no, we're not going to keep supporting this idea of sending innocents, our young men and women, america's finest over there for a futile effort. >> chris: let's talk a little bit of politics. your political action committee recently put out a video called "the so-called mama grizzlies video." take a look at it. ♪ >> it seems like it's kind of a mom awakening in the last year-and-a-half. where women are rising up and saying no, we've had enough already. because moms kind of just know when something is wrong. >> chris: i'm curious, governor, why are you targeting women? are you trying to create am with's movement for this november -- create a woman's movement for this november and possibly 2012? >> it just so happens that the common sense constitutional conservative women are willing to put it all on the line and they are going to make a lot of sacrifices to serve their country. they have a lot of common sense. they just happen to be women.

i support them strongly and wholly. they know we have to repeal the budget-busting bill like obama care and talk of cap and tax energy taxes and rein and spend in congress and adopt policies to allow us to be energy independent and get us on the right track. that video was about supporting those women, and men too, with common sense and a desire to protect our constitution and free market in america and turn some things around in this country. now, everything i just mentioned what we need to do, those things that have not been doing are resulting in congressional approval rating being in the tank. you know, 11%, which is a reflection, too, on what is coming out of the white house. that video is about supporting people who want to get the country back on the right track. just using some common sense. using wisdo and not under estimating the wisdom of the people. >> chris: which brings me to 2012. i know one of your favorite subjects but you and i will always play back and forth on this. the polls show your favorable

rating among republican contenders is higher than any of the others but you're polarizing also. i want to put up a quinnipiac poll that shows the republicans have a favorable opinion of you by a margin of 4:1. among independents, opinion is unfavorable by margin of 50:33. question, do you care about that? and how do you persuade the american people that you are qualified to be president? s>> well, i have never committed to running for president for one and i know that polls are fickle, so we won't talk about the approval rating or favorability. for unfavorable, i don't blame people for not knowing what it is in some instances what i stand for or what my record is. if i believed everything i read or heard in the media, i wouldn't like me either. that's one thing. want to make sure that we have, especially in the historic midterm elections we have people elected and i want to help them get there

to turn the country around and put it back on the right track. you know, people are going to worry about 2012 and the future months but that's not where my focus is. >> chris: finally, i want to ask you one sideline ques reporter joe mcginnis still camped out at the house he rented next door to you? >> he is. and we just avoid certain angles in the house. and we avoid the front yard. and we're doing a lot of things out and about around alaska to have our summer fun and our outdoor recreation. we changed our behavior as a result of our new neighbor. >> chris: has it been a problem? or do you just go with the flow? s>> well, only dead fish go with the flow. so we won't ever go with the flow and accept that somebody has infringed upon our privacy to try to kind of hamper some of our freedom and hamper our fun. so, not just going with the flow. changing our behavior. but i guess in october the

guy finally moves back to the east coast and goes and does his thing to somebody else. like todd says, some people just need to get a life. bless his heart. he needs to get a life. >> chris: governor palin, i want to thank you so much. it's always a pleasure talking with you. who knew i'd say "go with the flow" and it turned out to be an alaska straight line. >> we'll always find something to tie alaska in. thank you so much, chris. >> chris: you bet. up next, the first joint interview with the top two republican leaders on capitol hill. senator mitch mcconnell and congressman john boehner, as they discuss their game plan for the mid-terms. stay tuned. into revolutionary performance. one word makes the difference between defining the mission and accomplishing the mission. one word makes the difference in defending our nation and the cause of freedom.

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>> chris: with us now for their first joint interview ever are the republican leaders of congress. from cincinnati, house g.o.p. leader john boehner. and here in studio, senate leader mitch mcconnell. gentlemen, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> glad to be here. >> good morning. >> chris: senator mcconnell, the latest fox news opinion dynamics poll now shows that republicans have an 11-point lead when it comes to the generic ballot question, congressional ballot question: who are you going to vote for in your district? it was 11 points. recently, up from four points two weeks ago. aren't expectations for republicans so high now if you don't regain control of the house or the senate, the democrats will be able to spin this as a victory for them? >> i'd love to have the election tomorrow, but obviously it's not tomorrow.

your point is well-made. i think one of the things we need to do is remember that there is still three months to go. if the election were today, we'd certainly have a good day. but it's a long way until november. they have a lot of money. they outspent us for the last three cycles and i expect them to do it again. they're not going to go down easily. >> chris: congressman boehner, house republicans have come up -- i have it here -- with a big glossy pamphlet. 22 pages. pictures of margaret thatcher and winston churchill and ronald reagan called "tread boldly," telling your member what is to do in this long august recess you've just embarked on. question, congressman: what is the central message you are giving the members to get across to voters in the august recess? >> i think it's pretty clear that the american people are tired of the job-killing agenda in washington, d.c. they want the spending spree to stop. they want to make sure that taxes are not increased. i want republicans to do in

august is to go home and talk about the better solutions that republicans have been offering over the last 18 months. we've been listening to the american people. it's pretty clear that they want change. and our listening effort is going to continue through august. as we get in the election season. we're having a good year but we have a lot of work to do before the election on november 2. >> chris: congressman, even without going through a listening tour, you've got to know that the prime issue for all voters, or most voters is the economy and jobs. i want to put up some new figures out friday. they show the gdp growth has slowed dramatically from 5% in late 2009 to 3.7 in fact the first quarter of this year, to now just 2.4% in this last quarter. a number, congressman, a number of top economists say what we need is more economic stimulus. >> well, i don't need to see gdp numbers or to listen to

economists. all i need to do is listen to the american people, because they've been asking the question now for 18 months: where are the jobs? the fact is the president's policies are killing job creation in america. killing our economy. and the american people know it. that's why we're going to continue to offer what we think are better solutions. let's stop this stimulus spending that all it's doing is running up debt on the back of our kids and grandkids. make sure they're not going to increase taxes at a time when our economy is so weak. all of the things that my colleagues across the aisle want to do. >> chris: senator mcconnell, you know, though, that the democrats are going to hit you as the g.o.p., as the party of obstruction. let's look at what republicans have done in your body, the senate. you have blocked lending assistance for small business. you have voted against extending unemployment benefits. you have voted against financial regulatory reform. is that the way to boost the

economy? >> let me tell you how not to boost the economy. they are on a path to double the national debt in five years and triple it in ten. the so-called "financial regulation bill" that they call "wall street reform" was supported by goldman sachs and citigroup and opposed by the community bankers. the signature jobs accomplishment for these guys so far, the majority, is passing unemployment insurance. and by the way, doing it in a way that adds to the deficit. we have wanted to extend unemployment. we thought we ought to pay for it. not add to the deficit. everything they're doing is killing jobs. >> chris: well, let's take the latest one. blocking lending assistance for small business? >> that is another tarp. we tried that once, under the previous administration and under this one. basically, the lending facility portion of that bill is tarp three, or the son of tarp. >> chris: because there have been some question whether this is a procedural issue. you're now saying that republicans are against boosting lending assistance

to small business? >> this particular provision is another tarp and puts government in position of taking equity positions in businesses. look at what they've done. running banks, insurance companies, car companies, nationalized student loan business, taken over healthcare. we have don't need the government taking equity positions, ownership positions in any more private sector businesses. that is not the way out. the way out is to kill this job-killing tax increase that is coming, that they advocate that is going to affect 50% of small business income and 25% of our workforce. that is going to be their plan in september to raise taxes in the middle of recession. >> chris: let me talk with you, congressman boehner, about this. this is going to be one of the big issues. you say and senator mcconnell say the answer is extend bush cut. look at the cost here. extending just the tax cut for wealthy would cost $678 billion over ten years,

extending all the tax cuts would cost $2.9 trillion. it would explode the deficit and president obama says today for all of the talk about you guys as deficit hawks, if you buck him when it comes to some of the ideas he has to reduce the deficit he is going to "call your bluff." >> you have been in washington too long, chris. that's washington talk. >> chris: i'm just asking a question, sir. >> you cannot raise taxes on the american people in the middle of a recession. this is the first time since the depression that unemployment stayed above 9% for two consecutive years. that's what we have seen. if you try to raise taxes you are going to kill revenues coming to the federal government, because you are going to have less people working. the way to get our economy moving again and the way to solve the deficit problem is to get more people working,

to get more people taking care of their own families, more people paying taxes and controlling the spending spree in washington, d.c. >> chris: but congressman, what are you going to do about that $3 trillion hole that you are blowing in the deficit by extending the -- >> there is no $3 trillion hole. >> chris: wait a minute. let me finish the question. the $3 trillion deficit you are blowing in the deficit, the $3 trillion you are blowing in the deficit by extending the tax cuts? >> why can't we keep the tax rates where they are today? this is the whole washington mindset. all these cbo numbers. listen. we have to get the economy going. the only way to get the economy going is to keep tax rates low, take away the uncertainty that is coming from this administration and this democrat congress, so that employers can reinvest in our economy. i'm sure they'll begin to reinvest and begin to hire people, you are not going to see much help on the revenue

side. what we can also do is get rid of the wasteful washington spending coming from the administration. >> chris: do you agree with that, senator mcconnell? let's get specific. the we are talking $3 trillion over the next ten years by extending the tax cuts, you have to cut an awful lot of government programs. what are you going to cut to get $3 trillion? >> chris, the only way to really reduce the deficit is get the private sector going again. i can tell you, there is no question about it. president talked to a bunch of businessmen a few weeks ago and said why aren't you hiring? they listed the various problems, his agenda. that's why they're not hiring. they see a job-killing tax cut coming. another example in the healthcare bill, the massive healthcare bill we passed earlier in year requires every business to send out a 1099 form to the i.r.s. every time they spend more than $600. massive paperwork increase. we are offering that in the senate as amendment. let's get rid of that. we need to revisit the

healthcare bill, which is the second reason in addition to the massive tax increase that business is not expanding. >> chris: congressman boehner, let's switch to ethics. you and other republicans are really going after the democrats now. charles rangel facing ethics violations. congresswoman maxine waters facing alleged ethics violations and a possible trial. and you have said what happened to the promises from nancy pelosi that she was going to drain the swamp? democrats are firing back, though, congressman saying you set up a boehner for speaker committee where people who raise $100,000 get special access for you and you held a meeting with a bunch of washington top republican lobbyists the other day. is that draining the swamp? >> well, chris, boehner for speaker is nrcc project, a house campaign committee project to raise resources necessary to help our

candidates in this election. when i talk about draining the swamp, chris -- you heard me say this -- i expect, and the american people expect the highest ethical standards from their members of congress. nancy pelosi said four years ago it was time to drain the swamp. i can't believe it's taken some two years to investigate the charles rangel case. but the fact is she has not kept her promise. the swamp is alive and well. >> chris: but i do have to follow-up. boehner for speaker, you say it's a party thing. some people say that's washington talk. you are giving special access to you, possibly as you say, boehner for speaker, possibly the next speaker of the house for people who raise or donate $100,000. >> chris, as i said, this is an nrcc project. it's not unlike any other project, democrat or republican, when it comes to raising the kind of cash that needs to be raised. people don't need to have

special access to me. i was out in my district yesterday. there were hundreds of people who didn't pay a dime to see me. i walk through airports, i go to restaurants and i stand out on the corner. people have plenty of access to me and they don't have to pay for it at all. >> chris: senator mcconnell, one thing that charles rangel is in trouble for is using his name -- rather, using his position, allegedly ask companies with legislative interest to contribute to an academic center bearing his name. now his lawyers in their filing dragged you in to this, as i'm sure you know. they said you did the same thing with the mcconnell center at the university of louisville and the donors were toyota, ford, ups, tobacco institute and humana. don't they all have business interests involves the senate republican leader? >> totally different situation. this is a scholarship program for kids. it's been around for 20 years. these are all donors who largely contributed to the university.

in any event. we have 150 young people who have a scholarship. i don't see any comparability to the rangel matter. >> chris: what is the difference? >> i don't have an office there. i haven't used any facilities to raise money. it's a scholarship program for kids. >> chris: but i think what people, the average person, forget the ethics committee is concerned about you have a position of power, you are going to the donors, and they're giving money and maybe that ingratiates them that to you. >> i didn't benefit from it in any way. this is a scholarship program for young people in kentucky. they benefitted from it. not me. >> chris: charles rangel says he doesn't benefit from it in any way either. >> he has to speak for himself. my program is a scholarship program for kids. we had speakers, hillary clinton and john mccain, ted kennedy has been there, robert bird, the chief justice. i don't benefit from it in any way. purely charitable activity.

>> chris: let's face it. republicans have been in trouble, too. senator enson being investigated right now for allegedly covering up an affair he had. senator vitter involved with a president. congressman soughter quit after having extramarital relations with a staffer. don't republicans also live in a glass house when it comes to ethics? >> i think it's important for members of congress have the highest possible ethical standards. a number of members over the years got in trouble and some have had to leave senate as a result of it. >> chris: do you think there is an ethics issue the democrats have to face this year? >> i think the democrats' biggest problem is they're spending too much, taxing too much, borrowing too much and the job-killing programs are what is on the mind of the american people. i think that will determine the outcome of the election this fall. >> chris: finally, senator, president obama is speaking to veterans group on monday and that the u.s. is close to drawing down to 50,000 troops

in iraq. and will be out of this combat role by the end of august. isn't that a campaign promise that the president has kept? >> i have to commend the president for basically once the election was over ignoring my counterpart senator reid who said the war was lost in 2007 and basically ignoring his own campaign rhetoric in 2008 and adopting the program of the bush administration to wind down the war. the agreement with the iraqis to go down to 50,000 troops was made under the previous administration. so i commend the president for continuing the policy. continued with secretary gates and the policy and made progress in iraq. although it's still difficult because the bombings continue. >> chris: senator mcconnell and congressman boehner, thank you both so much for coming in today and please come back together if you will. >> we will. >> thank you, chris. >> chris: we want to point out we invited nancy pelosi and senator reid also to sit

down with us anytime. up next, the top house democrat faces ethics charges and is fighting for his political life. how badly will it hurt democrats in november? we hear from the panel when we come right back. hunt it dow. i'm fred lemond, and i'm in charge of bp's efforts to remove oil from these waters. bp has taken full responsibility for the cleanup and that includes keeping you informed. every morning, over 50 spotter planes and helicopters take off and search for the oil. we use satellite images, infrared and thermal photography to map and target the oil. then, the boats go to work. almost 6,000 vessels. these are thousands of local shrimp and fishing boats organized into task forces and strike teams. plus, specialized skimmers from around the world. we've skimmed over 27 million gallons of oil/water mixture and removed millions more with other methods. we've set out more than 8 million feet of boom to protect the shoreline. i grew up on the gulf coast and i love these waters.

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i think charles rangel served a for long time and served his constituents very well, but these allegations are very troubling.

i'm sure that what he wants is to be able to end his career with dignity. my hope is that that happens. >> chris: president obama appearing to tell veteran democratic congrsman charles rangel not to fight the ethic charges he faces. i's time now for the -- it's time for the sunday group. bill kristol of "the weekly standard." ceci connelly of the "washington post." former state department official liz cheney. and juan williams from national public radio. liz, i got to start with you. how is your dad? is he still in the hospital? >> he is. but he i he is out of the intensive care unit. hopefully will be home later this week. >> chris: i read as every american did about the heart pump. will he be able to go back and have a good active life and fly fish and hunt? >> absolutely. looking at the fly fishing and hunting dates for later on this year. we're very hopeful. people can tune in this friday night, i'm substitute for sean hannity on the

"hannity" show to talk about the heart pump and the information out there. >> chris: a plug in there, too. happy to hear that. please extend our best wishes to your dad and your mom. unfortunately, charles rangel not doing so well. rangel team is reading that remark from president obama that we just put up at the top of the segment, bill, as holding the door open for the congressman to get out of town and maybe even giving him a little bit of a nudge. a person close to him said the congressman doesn't give a damn of what the president thinks and says he is bitter at the not-so-subtle nudge. what is going on here? >> i think president obama is trying to throw charles rangel under the bus. i love that he should end his career with dignity. i don't think charles rangel is ending his career. he thinks he is a prominent

congressman who thinks he will get re-elected and play a major role. i hope rangel fights and lets it be adjudicated. i don't think the charges will result in suspension. maybe a reprimand or expulsion. i think president obama would be better advised to stand by people until the end. he doesn't get anything out of this and just annoys people on the hill who says he is not standing up for congressman. the ethics committee is doing its thing in a bipartisan way so let it play out. why does president obama throw rangel under the bus? >> it's never a good sign when everybody but especially when the president speaks about you in the past tense. i think it was a hearty shove out the door. >> chris: why do you think he did it? >> you know, it's a curious thing. i would be surprised if that was in the talking points to tell you the truth. but i do think that the president is getting concerned about the november mid-term elections and what

they see in the case with rangel and a second one that we understand is now coming as soon as monday. we'll see charges against congresswoman mane waters also by the ethics committee. two trials like that in september before the midterm elections would be enormous liability for the democratic party. no matter how much they talk about how they did in fact create an independent office to investigate the cases and it is, in fact, doing its job. still, the distraction of two of the trials wou terrible for democrats. >> chris: you know, liz, it turns out that the house ethics committee, sub committee that investigated rangel had apparently recommended that he be given a reprimand, not a censure, not an expulsion, but a reprimand. you have to go to the well of the house and the speaker says you messed up. that's all it is. are you, one, surprised, given the 13 allegations that that is all they recommended? and are you surprised that charles rangel didn't say i'll take the deal? >> i am surprised by both

things, actually. if you look at the complaint, you can see there are a couple of different scatgories of event -- categories of events. clear-cut violation of law, using the office to raise money for private purposes, using his congressional ranking and his staff. you also have in here that he didn't pay his own taxes. that didn't get as much attention or focus. but when you are the chairman of the committee writing that tax law for the rest of us and you can't be bothered to pay the taxes you are beginning to talk about imperial arrogance here. that is one of the reasons why the democrats are so concerned about this. they do not need another reminder before the mid-term elections that you've got so many people in their own party now who seem to be willing to ram things through, tell the rest of us what is good for us and forgotten they derive the authority from the sense of the governed, frankly. i think it will be very bad for them whether there is a public trial or not, you

know, the extent to which you have democrats in power, unwilling to abide by the laws that apply to the rt of us. >> chris: we do need to say these are all allegations. juan? >> you know what? this is not -- this doesn't have much impact with the voters so far from what i hear from the democrats talking to people in the august recess. >> chris: so why are nine democrats call for him to -- >> because i think ceci is right. prospect of a trial that would be televised, you know, can be all of a sudden, the name recognition can go way few you are in front of the tv camera every day and all over the channels. it's not good for democrats. you have a number of democrats, there are four house democrats who already said he should step down. the republicans say it's more than half a million dollars in campaign contributions the came from rangel to the fellow democrats in congress have been returned. because people don't want it said they have, you know, dirty money on their hands. i think it's a little bit of an overstatement. but anyway, it's a problem. the thing that grieves me so

deeply is charles rangel is such a wonderful man. i mean it with all my heart. he is a terrific guy. but he has it in his head now that somehow he has done nothing wrong. and he makes the case there has been no quid pro quo. he didn't personally benefit. my goodness, appearance is terrible. forgetting to put half a million on the financial disclosure statement. income from a dominican villa. so what it comes down to you just have a sense of you have been here 40 years. he is a heroic person. one of the cofounder of the black caucus. it's highly racial. charles rangel is black, maxine waters is black and the black caucus said they think the ethics committee goes after black members of congress? there have been eight probes of black members of the caucus so this becomes highly explosive. >> do you think it's racist, juan, do you think it's about race? >> i don't. but you better believe in

america with two black people in the well it will become about race. >> chris: we have a minute left and i want to talk about politics with you, bill. one hand, we could have the two trials, rangel and maxine waters in september in the height of the campaign. on the other hand, as i point out with the republican leaders, it's not like the republicans don't have their own ethics problems. can republicans make it stick in the same way that democrats seem to make the "culture of corruption" work against republicans in 2006? >> i think the republicans would be foolish. they should shut up. there is a bipartisan ethics committee. let the process go forward. there are plenty of members on both parties who are imperialists and there is an expectation will be treated well. everybody said mark foley blew the polls open. but the polls were just as bad as they were when the scandal it as the next week. the democrats are going to lose the house and suffer a

lot of -- suffer a loss of senate seats. the idea that they should go around and throw stones at charles rangel is foolish. >> chris: i have to end the panel but it's interesting to note the difference between john boehner going after the speaker and mitch mcconnell who really didn't want any part of this and wanted to talk about the democratic policies. anyway, we have to take a break here. up next, tough news from the war in afghanistan. we'll discuss the latest when we come right back. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. from new car replacement and guaranteed repairs to accident forgiveness, we do all we can to help you move on. liberty mutual auto insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

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it is a mistake to give this administration another blank check for the war. >> i'm confident that general petraeus and the troops will succeed in afghanistan if given time, space and resources they need to complete their mission. >> chris: political role-reversal this week, as more than 100 house democrats voted against more funding

for the president's war effort in afghanistan. he had to rely on support of republicans. back with the panel. liz, it's clear, that there is growing doubt on capitol hill and across the nation about the war in afghanistan and whether we're ever going to be able to help prop up a stable government, a strong central government running a stable country. are you still convinced we have the right policy in afghanistan? >> i am absolutely convinced the surge is the right thing to do. that general petraeus now in charge is the right person in charge. i also know we don't have a choice here. there are an awful lot of voices out there who seem to be saying c'mon, let's just quit and go home. it's not an option for us. we have been down the road before and we saw what happened at the end of the '80s an beginning of the '90s when we walked away from afghanistan. we have to stay there until we create a stable, sovereign government to prevent afghanistan from becoming a haven again for terrorists. i will point out although you

have the news about the wikileaks document that came out this week and clearly julian's effort was to change the policy in afghanistan, but it came out after the documents were released. he was unsuccessful in that. i think he clearly has blood on his hands potentially from those who names were in the document in the e-mail. he has to live with that now. i think president obama should the website down if iceland won't do it. they should move aggressively to prosecute and assure that he never again gets visa to enter the united states. it's clearly aiding and abetting al-qaeda. he may well be responsible for death of american soldiers and afghans. >> chris: liz talked about pulling up stakes and leaving but there is another option. the question is was joe biden right in the big policy

review last fall when he said not counterinsurgency, not trying to do some nation-building but counterterrorism. leave it to special forces and pilotless drones and you basically kill the enemies but you don't have a huge footprint of 100,000 american troops on the ground. >> that is what we're seeing now from general petraeus, they are going after what they call -- >> chris: they are doing both. >> but the momentum is toward what they call "counterinsurgency." >> chris: counterterrorism. >> counterterrorism where you target individual members of the terrorist group and go kill them. as a consequence, you don't have need for larger footprint. they have had some success killing a high number of people and disspiriting the opponent. the larger issue, political issue is you had a vote in congress on the funding and you went from 32 democrats being in opposition, i guess this is a year ago, to now 132 being in proposition. >> chris: 102. >> 102 in proposition.

that is a huge jump. you get most of the women who are democrats, you get speaker pelosi in opposition to president obama on this. you get support from bill kristol. and liz cheney and the republicans. it's a bipartisan effort. a breakdown in the -- it's over half americans now say it's not our fight. time to go. >> democrats have never been committed to the fight. >> chris: let me bring in bill. when you hear the two argume arguments, this is what comes down, where they had this in the sit room, the situation room last fall. counterinsurgency, 100,000 troops trying to create a stable government; particularly, in the southern part of the country, the stronghold of the taliban. counterterrorism where you say let's just kill as many of the enemy as we can and not have this big nation building effort. >> we tried counterterrorism basically for most of the last nine years. we didn't have many troops

there. we tried to kill taliban leaders. we should keep on doing that and we are doing that, but we need counterinsurgency. people are throwing hands before the main counterinsurgency operation has been done, either in helmand or kandahar. >> chris: but a month or two ago -- >> sorry, so let's just call off the war! we're two months late shaping operations in kandahar. is that the way we're going to run the foreign policy in the president of the united states makes a decision, bipartisan support, sends our best general to run it. sends a bipartisan team of civilians and other military that have been through it before to do it. we're sending troops over there. the idea that serious political leaders are throwing up their hands and people are talking to the reporters about the background, saying it doesn't look like it's working. we would have given up on world war ii in 1942. they would have! the north africa campaign was a mess. oh, my god! it's not going to work! it's a matter of -- >> i get your point. i get your point.

but let me say. >> chris: one at a time. >> did you notice that july was the deadliest month in that war? we lost more than 60 people. the previous deadliest month was june. in other words, things are not going well. [ overtalk ] >> they said in the testimony part of the counterinsurgency we're sending troops in and taking on the enemy and we want to secure the population and that is going to result in more casualties. the deadliest month in iraq, in early 2007 when the surge started -- >> chris: let me bring in cici. when you see 102 democrats vote against this and you hear governor ed rendell, the democratic governor of pennsylvania says you know, if the war continues and it's not going well, barack obama might face a challenge from the anti-war left in 2012. how much frustration inside and war weariness is there inside the democratic party? >> incredible war weariness, chris. not only have we been fighting in iraq for how many years now but afghanistan essentially began in 2001 as well.

now what everybody sort of yawned when the documents were released by wiki a week ago. but -- i agree with liz in terms of the names of some of th insurgents that have been cooperating with the -- >> chris: informants. >> the informants. pardon me. that is a very serious problem. but the one thing that the documents do is remind and reiterate with a freshness just how troubled that effort had been for so many years.dece obama gave his big speech and said okay, now we're going to do the surge and we're in the midst of getting close to 100,000 troops. he is going to do another reassessment leading up to the coming december. but it has gone on for so long and there is so much dissension and debate within the administration, within the democratic party, that i think that they are very concerned that they don't have a clear roadmap for if not winning this thing, at least reaching a respectable

point where they can withdraw, which is a promise he made. >> chris: liz? >> yeah, the enemy is counting on the fact that the american people, that the american government, that president obama won't have the will to see this through. and the extent to which we talk about gosh, it's hard, so we're going to just throw our hands up and come home i'm afraid begins to prove the enemy right. it's tough. it's hard. it's, you know, extremely -- >> chris: we have 45 seconds left, what about karzai? what about the karzai government? doesn't that -- >> look, i think it's absolutely clear there is corruption in the government. but i think it's much better for security of the united states that karzai is in charge in kabul than having the taliban and al-qaeda in charge of kabul. there is absolutely no question that -- >> stop -- [ overtalk ] >> stop attacks on the united states. >> chris: wait, wait, wait. stop. >> the point should be to stop attacks on the united states by terrorists. what we know now is there are about 250 members of the --

>> juan, if you -- >> we are sending 100,000 -- >> if you could win this by a trick, killing the taliban leaders we would have won it already. >> chris: we'll continue it in the next program, which is somebody else's. thank you, panel. see you next week. don't forget to check out the latest edition of panel plus where the group will pick up with this discussion on the website. foxnewssunday.com. we promise we'll post the video before noon eastern time. up next, we hear from you. ♪ [ man ] if it was simply about money, every bank loan would be a guarantee of success. at ge capital, loaning money is the start of the relationship, not the end. i work with polaris every day. at ge capital, we succeed only when they do. whoo! awesome! yes! we've got to get you out of the office more often. ♪ my turn to drive. ♪

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>> chris: time now for comments that you posted to the blog foxnewssunday.com. we heard a lot about last week when i confronted former democratic party chair howard dean after he accused fox news of racism for our coverage of the shirley sherrod story. rafael sent this -- >> chris: mary wrote -- >> chris: please keep your comments coming to foxnewssunday.com. that's it for today. have a great week. we'll see you next "fox news have a great week. we'll see you next "fox news sunday." captioned by closed captioning services, inc