tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX December 31, 2012 2:00am-3:00am PST
>> chris: i'm chris wallace. with the clock ticking toward the fiscal cliff, it is crunch time on capitol hill. ♪ >> chris: as the new year rings in, we are headed to a major financial hangover. what happens if big tax hikes and spending cuts take effect? will washington come up with a last-minute compromise? plus, where are we headed on new demands for gun control? and, will we ever get all of the answers to the benghazi terror attacks? we'll cover a lot of ground when we sit down with two leading senators: democrat dianne feinstein and republican lindsay graham.
also th 2012 in the rearview mirror we look ahead to 2013. our sunday panel weighs in on what we'll be talking about in the coming year. all, right now, on fox news sunday. ♪ >> chris: and hello, again from fox news in washington. well, it turns out the fiscal cliff is going to be a cliff-hanger. with less than two days until the new year, senate leaders are still trying to work out a deal, to avoid tax increases on almost every american. but, any compromise will do close to nothing about our debt problem. joining us now, to discuss what kind of deal they will and won't vote for, are two key senators, democrat dianne feinstein and republican lindsey graham. senators, welcome back to fox news sunday. >> thank you. >> good morning. >> chris: senator graham, a couple of days ago you said you thought we were going to go over the fiscal cliff and now we are in the midst of a lot of last-ditch bargaining between the senate leaders, reid and
mcconnell, what are the chances for a small deal in the next, less than 48 hours to avoid the cliff. >> exceedingly good. i think people don't want to go over the cliff, if we can avoid it. i think, whatever we accomplish, political victory to the president, hats off to him, he stood his ground and will get tax increases, maybe not 250 but upper income americans and the sad news is we have accomplished little, in terms of not becoming greece, that bill will not affect the debt situation and it will be a a political victory for the president and i hope we have courage of our convictions, when it comes to raise the debt ceiling to fight what we believe as republicans. hats off to the president, he won. >> chris: quick follow-up, before we turn to senator feinstein, you said you don't think your conservative colleagues in the senate will filibuster or set up a procedural roadblock, they'll vote to avoid going over the cliff. >> if mcconnell can't get 60% of
us to vote for the deal it will be hard for boehner to get through the house and i will want to vote for it, though i don't like it them. country has a lot to the stake here. >> chris: senator feinstein, is senator graham right, will we get a deal. >> he's partially right. yesterday, 2.1 million americans lost extended unemployment insurance. and, from this point on, it is lose-lose. my big worry, is, a contraction of the economy. the loss of jobs, which could be well over 2 million in addition to the people already on unemployment. i think, contraction in the economy really would be just terrible for this nation. i think we need a deal, we should do a deal, if lindsey and i could sit down, i think we could put the deal together. the leadership is now working. it will probably be an immediate deal. in other words, it is not going to solve all of the problems for ever. but, it will solve certain
problems, in other words, not only the unemployment insurance, but, doctors lose 30% on medicare patients, if that isn't remedied, called the doc fix, that will probably be done and the tax extenders will probably be done. and, a number of other things that are instant -- >> the -- amt -- >> that's right. >> chris: that will be -- there will be a fix that will not hit 20 million more americans. >> that is exactly right. >> chris: let me start focus on the tax rates. that has been the biggest issue in this whole debate. the president wants to extend the tax rates on families making less than $250,000 a year. senator graham, is that acceptable or does the threshold for when you start to make the bush tax rates go away, does it have to be higher? some people say 400,000, 500,000 and how confident are you that the house which refused to set the mark at a million dollars, will pass any tax rate increase?
>> if democrats will vote for the deal in the house, they are allowed to vote for whatever the senate passes, there will be enough republicans, but boehner needs a majority of the republican party. in 2010, we extended all the tax cuts, because the economy was weak. in 2012, the first part of 2013, we are not going to extend all of the tax cuts, the economy is weaker. i don't understand the economics but i do understand the politics. the president won. the president campaigned on raising rates and he'll get a rate increase. >> chris: would you vote for 250 -- >> she's willing to go for more and why would i not, times 4 or 500, and the votes are there for 4 or 500 but in the house will the votes be there for 4 or 500? i think a majority of -- 80% of the republicans would have voted for plan b. but, when you have no democrats, you needed almost all republicans. this time around, i think you will get a majority of republicans and a majority of
democrats in the house if you can get 60% of the republicans in the senate. >> chris: senator feinstein, is that the sweet spot, 400s are -- 400,000, 500,000, that they'll accept -- >> the way democrats feel is this president campaigned and won an election on $250,000. additionally the polls reflect there is solid support for that. certainly 60% of americans believe that. now, having said that, elections matter. so, we believe that the 250,000 threshold is the appropriate threshold. the president did make an offer, we understand, of $400,000. with a trillion in cuts. accompanying it. that was turned down by the house. the time has come, really, to measure the absence of a deal plus -- against a deal. and i think both of us come down that we have to solve this immediate situation.
the danger to our people, to our military, to our nation's security, to our economic base is just too great not to have a solution. so, you know, what makes this government work, is compromise, and, it is when you don't compromise, there is stasis -- >> you say 400,000 you could live with, not happily -- >> isn't that the question i will get asked? where does the money go? let's say it is $400,000. people vote $400,000, pay 39.3. >> chris: which is roughly $600 billion. >> if i'm asked at home, senator graham, what will we do with the money, what will i say. >> it is added to make up the deficit that everyone has been discussing -- >> it goes for -- >> not new spending. you know, you gets down to another thing, which was a very bad idea, and that is sequester. and whether sequester goes into effect or not. >> chris: well, that -- >> that is the 800 pound
gorilla. >> chris: let me ask you about that. i enjoyed your brief state as the host of fox news sunday. >> i think it is a good jeegs i do, too. senator graham, all washington has been talking about is the tax side of the cliff. let's talk about intending side of the cliff, there is still as part of the cliff, $110 billion sequestered. automatic cuts, defense cuts, domestic cuts. what will happen to that? will you address that? >> we'll -- i called leon panetta, last night during dinner. >> chris: secretary of defense. >> and he said, i have been told there will be nothing in the bill to avoid sequestration going into effect and this is the failure of the super committee to find $1.2 trillion in cuts for the debt ceiling increase and, we have cut $489 billion and he says if we do it, it will be shooting the defense department in the head and we have to send out 800,000 layoff notices the beginning of the year and he is worried to death
that if we don't fix the sequestration we will destroy the finest military in the world, at a time we need it the most and this bill doesn't cover defense cuts, on top of the ones we have -- >> so, briefly, will you go for a deal today that deals with -- doesn't deal with the sequestering. >> the reason i think i might, i know diane feels the same way. she told me all the $600 billion goes on the deficit. i hope that that is true. but that is only 5 or 6% of the deficit, when it comes to defense spending, the only reason i would vote for this bill is sequestration -- if sequestration was not included is trusting people like dianne to work with me and make sure it doesn't become reality, post january 1st. >> chris: in a bigger sense if you get the automatic cuts, 110, $120 billion, in the first year, even if you get those the deal that you are talking about does not reduce our national debt, because, extending the bush tax cuts, 98, 99% of americans, it
will actually increase the debt by trillions of dollars over the next decade. so, the question is, when are you guys going to get serious about spending? >> well, we are getting serious about spending. we have already cut spending, between the cr, and the affordable care act we have cut spending a trillion dollars-plus. and there is an argument over how much. let's say it is a trillion-and-a-half dollars. having said that, i think there is a commitment to cut spending. if you do it biy virtue of sequestration it falls, regardless of priority on things that are very high priority and shouldn't be cut. i think you either have to postpone sequestration, or you have to take a portion of it. and, mark zandi, suggested that you do $55 billion, which will not have that much of a retardation on the economy. he estimates that at about a
point-and-a-half. if we do nothing, we lose 3% of gdp. because you withdraw from the economy over $700 billion. >> chris: let me -- >> that is a problem for america. if that should happen. >> chris: i don't want to get too much into the weeds, though, obviously it is a substantive subject, but after the cliff, the next big step, is when we reach the debt ceiling, which we're now told by treasury secretary geithner will be probably around the end of february. two months. assuming that you get this deal, you turn off the bush tax cuts, for -- bush tax cuts for 98% of americans, will they go every the democrats as part of bargaining on -- and the president said, i will not negotiate on that anymore. >> here's what i will do, if you took every penny on the $600 billion and put it on the deficit, it is 6 or 7% and i don't believe all of it will go on the deficit. when we raised the debt ceiling in august of 2011, we borrowed
$2.1 billion. we spent that much money, in 17 months. why would i raise the debt ceiling again, unless we address what put us in debt to begin with? i'm not going to raise the debt ceiling unless we get serious about keeping the country from becoming greece, and social security and medicare, here's what i would like, meaningful entitlement reform, not to turn social security into private accounts, not to take a voucher approach to medicare. but, adjust the age for social security, cpi changes and means testing and look beyond the ten-year window. i cannot in good conscience raise the debt ceiling without addressing the long term debt problems of this country and i will not. >> chris: and, senator feinstein, you heard president obama say we have to get out of the habit and will not start trading debt ceiling increases for spending cuts. >> i think the key to what he is saying is that you don't affect people at this time. who are on these programs. that you do it in a way that it is way in the future.
so, that long term, the programs are essentially changed and more constricted. now that is not entirely popular on my side. but, it is realistic, i think. i think, you know, this is a very hard time for people. and, we need to get by this and have a robust economy, and, and cap happen, i'm convinced, if we solve this and move down you can do those things that enable the programs to be solvent on an extended basis, without impacting people directly now. >> chris: senators, we need to take a quick break, when we come back we'll discuss where the investigation of the benghazi terror attack stands now, and, whether congress will act in the new year to try to prevent more mass murders. ♪ to the best vacation spot on earth.
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>> chris: we're back now with senators dianne feinstein and lindsay graham. senator graham, how important is it for secretary of state clinton to testify under oath before she leaves office about the benghazi terror attack and what do you think we still need to know about benghazi. >> absolutely essential that she testify. i want to know from the secretary of state's point of view, were you informed of the deteriorating security situation, were all the cables coming out of benghazi, did they ever get up to your level and if they didn't, it is a problem and if they did, why didn't you act differently. it is important to know how the intelligence coming from libya,
how it was received, in the state department, so we can learn and correct any mistakes we need to make. >> chris: some of your republican colleagues say they are prepared to hold off the confirmation of john kerry as secretary of state, until secretary clinton testifies as secretary, before she leaves office. >> that will happen, i was told by senator kerry he wants that approach, as you and needs to hear what she says so he can make comments about, i agree with her, i don't agree with her and makes sense to have her go first. >> chris: you agree with that, senator feinstein? that she needs to testify first, as an -- and have you been assured she'll testify, though it has been three-and-a-half months since benghazi and she still has never really answered questions, about benghazi, her role before, during, after the attack, do you have reason to believe she'll testify as secretary. >> she said she will and i believe she will. you know, she has had a very real accident and she's recovering from it, and, she will be back, i gather, her first day, of work may well be
next week. so, i think that that is good news. and, having said that, i think benghazi is a real learning, very hard learning example for us. our part of it, the intelligence committee a part of it, is the intelligence. and, i have gone through the intelligence and there were two full binders of intelligence and there was a great deal of intelligence that would indicate that something well could happen. it wasn't tactical, it didn't say, on september 11th you can expect x, y or z but there was enough to know that there were problems in the area, there were also attacks, prior attacks, british ambassador, the red cross, prior attack on the mission, et cetera. so, we had reason to believe that there was a problem there. as lindsey pointed out, the problem was, the right people apparently either didn't make the decision, or, didn't analyze the intelligence.
because, i think if you looked at the intelligence, you would have substantially beefed up the security in that particular mission, in benghazi. and, it didn't happen, sufficiently, we lost four people, a bright ambassador, additi additionally, they didn't have basic things, fire extinguishers, gas masks, appropriate cameras that do what they can do today. we have learned this and it is up to the state department and up to us to provide the money -- here we go again -- and up to the state department, to make the changes that are necessary. >> chris: the apparent front-runner for the new defense secretary, panetta, of course, according to -- apparently is one of your former senate colleagues, former republican senator chuck hagel who came under fire for positions on engaging iran and supporting defense spending cuts. on "meet the press" this morning, president obama apparently, while he didn't say he'll name him, said he has seen
nothing in any of the criticism to block him. senator graham, are republicans going to block chuck hagel if he's the nominee for defense secretary. >> i think a lot of republicans and democrats are very concerned about chuck hagel's position on iran sanctions. his views toward israel, hamas and hezbollah and there is wide and deep concern about his policies. all of us like him as a person. it will be up to the president to make the selection. the hearings will matter. they will matter a lot to me. and if he sends chuck hagel up it will be a confirmation hearing of consequence. >> chris: so, at this point you are not prepared to say the republicans would put a hold on the nomination, or filibuster it? >> i can tell you there would be very little republican support for his nomination, at the end of the day, very few votes. >> chris: senator feinstein, you will introduce legislation this week on the first day of the new congress on thursday, to ban
assault weapons, and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. why is that more effective than the nra proposal to put armed guards in every school? >> well in the first place, 1/3 of america's public schools does have armed guards. secondly, there were armed guards at columbine, they couldn't stop the shooters. so, the question comes, what do we do about the growing sophistication of military weapons on the streets of our cities? they aren't good hunting weapons, no hunter worth their salt would use an assault weapon to hunt, and, what we'd do is take the earlier bill and strengthen it in many ways, prevent the gun manufacturers, from getting around it as they did. go to a one physical characteristic test and take specific models and ban mayor
manufacture, sale and transfer and take the weapons that are grandfathered, that are in possession now, and put them under the federal firearms act. so that they would be licensed, there would be background checks down. america has to bite the bullet of what these incidents mean to our people, to our nation, and our nation's standing in the world. when you have someone walking in and flaying in the most brutal way, 6-year-olds, something is really wrong. this is one effort and other things we should do to try to put weapons under some kind of appropriate authority. >> chris: senator graham, you support the nra plan to put more school security in place, and you oppose senator feinstein's assault weapons ban. why is she wrong? >> we'll, we had the assault weapons ban from 1994 to 2004 and the conclusion was, it did not change crime by banning assault weapons in an appreciable way and last year
with the lowest murder rate in the history of the united states, people buying more guns, murder rates have gone down, you are talking about preventing mass murder by minimally unstable persons. you can't take every sharp object out of the reach of people like this. i own an ar-15 and i have done nothing wrong by owning the gun. if you had armed security, with better rules of engagement, that, to me, is a better way to deal with the situation, and the best way is to identify these people before they act and do something about it. and the ban didn't work then and doesn't work now and i will oppose it. >> chris: so for all the talk and horror -- and i think both of you share what you feel about n newtown, will you do anything to address it, whether gun control or changes to our mental health laws an access to mental health, whether violence in the media? senator. >> well, i believe we are going to certainly try. now, let me respond about the murder rate.
over 9,000 people are killed with guns a year. where there aren't guns, there isn't that murder rate. 9,000 people. that is a lot of people. secondly, i think we have come to a point where these mass murders, the grievance killers that go out there, that get the most sophisticated weapon they can possibly get their hands on and then go into movie theatres, malls, offices, businesses, and schools, and mow down people, you have to have some appropriate controls on these weapons. now, he may feel safer because he has an ar-15. i don't know, that is up to him. he would not be affected by this. but i think having a system where these very powerful weapons, as a matter of fact, the bushmaster has a fly you can put on it to make it fully automatic. and just pump out slews of bullets. and gives -- >> i want to give senator graham
an opportunity the respond briefly and then i want to move on. >> the bottom line is, is it triggered by the movies they watch, videos they watch or a person they ride and we have a 1st amendment and 2nd amendment and they aren't absolute, you can regulate guns and speech but what she is proposing is a massive intervention. gun sales are up and crime is down. it is a false sense of security you are pursuing here. you will not be able to stop mass murderers with no criminal record just by taking my ar-15 and making me pay $200 and get my finger prints and say i can't buy another one. it didn't work then, didn't work before, identify these people before they act, put security in places they are likely to go like school houses, if you go into the capitol you will be met with armed force. if you go into a school house, the best solution to protect children, is to have somebody there to stop the shooter, not get everybody's gun in the country. >> chris: we will not solve this
today. and, forgive me, i want to move on to one other subject, which is actually, has been holding up action a lot of people would say. senate faces a big moment on january 3rd, the first day, on whether to change the rules and make it harder for the minority to filibuster and block the majority and you both have been in the majority and both have been in the minority. senator reid is prepared to offer a plan which is called the nuclear option and would pass by a simple majority of 51 votes but a bipartisan group of senators has come up with a compromise that wouldn't change the rules as much but also wouldn't be the majority forcing the will on the minority. is there going to be filibuster reform senator feinstein, and what kind. >> at thursday's caucus we had a briefing. there are three groups of senators working on three different proposals for rules changes. it was put before the democrats for the first time, on thursday. and, we listened to it. i think there are some changes that can be made, on a
bipartisan basis. i think that is where things are going, right now, to try to see what we can agree upon. if we can't, then, the so-called nuclear option comes into play. i am hopeful that that is not the case. because, what goes around, comes around and i think the imminently desirable thing is to have agreement between us. we need to agree... >> chris: the nuclear option, a simple up-or-down vote, 51 votes to impose will of the majority. >> at this stage i don't believe it is necessary. i believe we can work something out. that both parties can accept. >> chris: senator graham, you were part of the bipartisan group that came up weather the compromise. it gets technical, folks, but, basically it would remove some of the procedural roadblocks to a deal and the other end, wouldn't remove all of them. will both sides accept that and will it change anything? because you will still be able to filibuster. >> i hope and pray both sides accept it. because i was in the gang of 14. during the bush administration,
all the judges were blocked, and couldn't get a judicial vote and our guys got really upset, and bill fritz wanted to change the rules of the senate so you needed only 31 votes to confirm a judge and senate democrats and senate republicans, i was one of the republicans said, don't change the rules because we have a problem for the moment and, don't want the senate to become the house, i'm saying now, what i said, then, when republicans wanted to change the rules, i said, no, it is bad for the institution. and when democrats are proposing the same thing, i say, no. i think people like dianne and myself will prevail, there will not be a draconian change, we'll work this out. >> chris: senators, thank you both and thanks for talking with us about a range of issues, you are both good company as always and happy new year to both of you. >> same to you. >> thank you. >> to all of us, thank you. >> chris: up next or sunday group on the cliff-hanger over the fiscal cliff. what will happen? and how will it affect you? ♪
>> we'll be working hard to try to see if we can get there in the next 24 hours and so, i'm hopeful and optimistic. >> whatever we come up with will be imperfect and some people will not like it and some people will like it less but that is where we are. >> chris: the two senate leaders, mitch mcconnell and harry reid on the last-ditch effort to put together a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff and it is time now for our sunday group, bill kristol of the weekly standard, former democratic senator evan byah and byron york
from the washington examiner and kirsten powers of the daily beast web site. you heard mitch mcconnell say he's hopeful and optimistic. will congress pass something in the next 48 hours, something? to avoid the fiscal cliff? >> i don't know. but, i guess, probably. and it will be a bad deal but i suppose better than doing nothing. and, every working american's taxes will go up january 1st if they do nothing about the payroll tax, a pretty big increase, and, defense cuts and everyone agrees, with that policy to have middle class americans' taxes go up, and, it totally irresponsible defense cuts and this is what congress thinks is a good deal. >> chris: i'm not sure it is a good deal but avoids the worst of the fiscal cliff. senator bayh -- obviously, we don't know, what is your sense, no filibuster in the senate? you heard lindsay graham and do republicans pass whatever the senate agrees to?
>> the odds are somewhat better than 50/50 we get a minimal deal in the senate. not one that solves our debt problem, as you pointed out earlier and this is a prequel to going through it again around the first of march over the debt ceiling and getting us through this crisis, slightly better than 50-50 and the real question is in the house of representatives and will it be enough of a compromise, that enough republicans can vote for it, to get through the house? i put that at 50-50. >> chris: byron, the most we can say, or will be ale to say if congress passes something is they were able to stop the crisis, that they created, in the first place. but, they will have done nothing, i mean, it is really quite astonnishing to deal with the debt problem which is what the crisis was supposed to be about and, in fact, if you extend the bush tax cuts for 98, 99% of americans, and you have just these small, automatic spending cuts, you actually increase the deficit, by trillions of dollars over the next decade. >> that's right, they are only
dealing with the most immediate problem and by immediate i mean the next 48 hours. and where we are is exactly where we knew we'd be months ago, which is republicans are about to give in on their long held position that you shouldn't raise taxes on anybody, the only question is, is it above 250, 400, 500? and, the reason they are doing it is, they know if they hold it up, past january 1, the first bill the democrats will introduce, ar te the obama tax cuts and he proposes to relower the rates -- >> if they don't do something the taxes go up for everybody. >> yes. and the president proposes relowering them to somewhere near bush rates for everybody under 250 and the republicans don't want to be in a position of stopping that. >> chris: but why, byron, were they unable to do anything about the real problem? i mean -- if you take the amount 0 -- say, 400,000, it would be $600 billion increase in revenue
to the government, over the next ten years. $600 billion, in terms of a deficit of $16 trillion, going up, by another 2.5, $3 trillion in the next ten years is peanuts. >> you heard lindsay graham talk about entitlement reform and the debt ceiling issue but if you look at -- among democrats, especially, further to the left, since the election, their feeling has been, president obama won, we will not take this out of seniors, we will not take it out of medicare, we will not take it out of social security. no cuts, and those things and that position has hardened, i think on the left in the past couple of mo couple of months. >> chris: you are a believer, kirsten, that obama won and, gets the tax rate increases. on the other hand, you do have another deadline coming in about two months, according to timothy geithner and that is the increase in the debt ceiling and
at that point, it would seem to me the republicans hold most of the leverage, because they can at least threaten to send the country into default unless there are serious and main spending cuts. at that point does this obama victory perhaps look a little different? >> well, i mean, i think the question is, are they really going to want to do what they did last time with the debt ceiling, which ultimately caused us to have a downgrade of our economy. do they want to do that again? i think it is a bit of bluffing. i don't think they really want to do that. in terms of the president winning, he has won, though he will catch a lot of grief as byron alluded to from the left for, if he goes up to 400,000, for example, they think he should stick at 250 and don't want any kind of social security cuts and that is on the table apparently in the the new deal, so in that sense he'll catch flak. but, overall, yes, he'll get what he wanted in terms of taxes, and has given up very little in terms of cuts and, look he didn't run on cutting
the government, really. he ran on raising taxes, and, so republicans keep saying, well, there is no cuts, no cuts and the president never really said that much about cuts -- >> you do understand it isn't really going to do anything about our national debt. >> i totally understand that. but for republicans to expect the president to have led on that, i don't think they were paying attention to the election. >> chris: he doesn't -- >> no. here's what they should have done, they should have a month ago agreed on some sort of deal on the tax cuts. they were going to have to do it anyway and then hammered the president, every day on spending cut. and instead, they got out maneuvered and spent all of this time arguing over taxes and now in the end, they -- obama will basically get everything he wants, and the republicans will be left with almost nothing. >> chris: senator? >> it could be a victory, because the president will get what he want but i think, as you point out, previously, in your previous panel pointed out, it doesn't solve the problem, raising taxes on the wealthy doesn't solve our debt problem.
people are quickly going to pivot and focus on that and approaching the debt ceiling, as we saw two years ago, the republicans have more leverage. why? the president will request to borrow another 2, $3 trillion. and that doesn't poll well with the american people and the republicans have a stronger hand then and they have taken a step back and conceded on tax rates, but it will be to focus a little bit later in two months on spending entitlements -- >> he has been saying repeatedly in the last, a bad habit, we will not get into this thing, that -- this habit of trading, you know, a trillion dollar increase in the debt limit for a trillion dollars in spending cuts. who is bluffing? kirsten says she thinks the republicans or is it the president, he'll say, you are trying to condition this on spending cuts. we'll go over the debt default. >> i don't think either side is bluffing. but look at the recent past... when the payroll tax cut, about expired the republicans blinked on that.
when we were about to default on the debt, the president blinked on that. so, today, when we're approaching the cliff, and taxes are going up, the republicans are blinking. as we approach the debt ceiling the president is going to -- the president is getting more today and the republicans get more of what they want the first part of march, neither side will default the country and run that kind of risk, we'll have a series of minimalist deals, taking a bite at a time out of the problem and the reason for that, psychology, philosophy, and core politics make it very, very hard. that is why, at the end of the day it is gift. >> chris: one thing the economy -- the business community was begging for, it was certainty from washington. we don't care what you do. good policy, bad policy, give us a policy we know we'll live under for the next few years and we can start to make decisions. i don't see how a business man would have any idea what will happen as a result of what is happening here or looking ahead
two months to the debt ceiling. >> i agree. i think obama -- president obama out maneuvered the congressional republicans. maybe it isn't hard, sometimes, but can't out maneuver reality and the reality is we are running a $1 trillion deficit and the deal does nothing about that and does nothing to stimulate economic growth and irresponsibly cuts defense and we'll pay a terrible price for that, as a country, and he is the only president we have and this is where -- i'm not making it a partisan point, a terrible failure of leadership, he's the president and the truth is, the speaker can't do it and minority and majority leader can't do it. he has to be serious about dealing with reality and reality is the real cliff we are going over which is this debt cliff and monetary cliff, and i'm worried a foreign policy cliff and not merely the little, you know, fiscal cliff we have to deal with january 1st. >> chris: all right, panel we have to take a breake here, whe we come back the panel dusts off the crystal ball and gives us their predictions for 2013. ♪
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>> chris: we have a year end tradition around here, to have the panel make some predictions for the new year, on a range of topics. given our track records in this area, i would not rush to las vegas to place any bets, folks! let's start with something we are supposed to, and i repeat, supposed to know something about, politics and government, for 2013. bill? >> i think it will be a year of foreign policy, all the talk about the fiscal cliff is interesting and we'll stumble along and the economy will stumble along and, i think we will have big foreign policy challenges an crises with respect to iran, afghanistan, syria, and i think that will be the dominant preoccupation of the year. >> chris: when it comes to iran which i know, is still a preoccupation of yours, a year from now will we talk about the diplomatic deal that has been accomplished, military action taken or the fact we are still then same mess. >> i think the military action
that will have been taken. >> chris: by us or israel. >> i don't know. >> chris: well that is enough. there you go. senator bayh. >> believe it or tho not, the election is over but another one is always about to begin and i think you will see the vice president, probably making trips, at some point in the first half of the year to places like iowa and new hampshire, just to pick states at random, because he would like to set the stage for the next -- winning the democratic presidential nomination, in four years, of course the party is going to wait and see what hillary clinton wants to do, if she died not to run the vice president starts off as the favorite in kneeled and it will include several others. >> chris: you are saying, joe biden, who in four years would be in his -- i think 73 or something, and the oldest first-term president in our country, you think he is serious about running. >> 73 in the u.s. senate, is a youth member, and that is where the vice president's roots are and yes, i think he'll make a decision sometime later, put to keep his options open, he'll be
courting donors and activists in ohio and new hampshire and elsewhere. >> i think the implementation of obamacare will be the political story of 2013. the rise in cost in premiums, dislocations on the job, more people put into part-time status. controversy over the start of the exchanges, with republican governors refusing to do it in their states. and, the loss of employer-based health coverage. for a lot of people, you have to remember, president obama campaigned by saying, if you like your coverage now, you can keep it. that will be put to the test, this year. >> chris: kirsten? >> i think that based on what happened in the last election, the republicans finally realized, for political reasons, they will have to start to look at immigration reform, something the president wanted to do before, but, really couldn't, because the republicans weren't interested in doing it. i think whether something will be passed this year or not is hard to say, definitely we'll start to see people moving towards some things, and,
involved, like a path to citizenship. >> chris: areas in which the panel may be shakier but no less certain of themselves. entertainment. >> i think the metropolitan opera's production... will be -- for some of us will be -- i know! i know! opera... the reason i'm saying it will be the opera performance of the year, someone was kind enough to give us tickets, in a couple of weeks and i'm a huge fan and i'm looking forward to it and you guys can cover the movies. >> chris: i predict my wife will try to get me to the opera again in 2013 and once again, she will fail, senator? >> chris, i think the one thing i can say about the new year, congress's job approval will be stuck in the low teens... >> chris: entertainment. >> i know, but that is my way of saying, i think next year's oscar for tragedy or farce, will
go to the u.s. economy, their inability to deal with basic problems that face the problem will continue and for those of you who want real entertainment, tune into our program or watch c-span, if you are a glutton for punishment. >> more hollywood, and, politically conscious hollywood, lincoln will sweep, best picture, best actor, best supporting actor, and best director and the left will take a message from this for president obama, please, cut corners, get things done and don't worry about the constitution, and that will be message. >> byron is wrong, ben afleck will get best director for argo. which is an excellent movie, and i think you know, he's very popular, in hollywood, and i think that he did an excellent job with his movies and does great acting in it and the other movie that i think will be up will be "zero dark 30" though there is criticism because of the torture stuff and hollywood doesn't like those kinds of things. >> chris: let's move on, the
economy. >> i think the fed's zero interest rate policy will be more of a problem than people realize today. and, there will be a crisis, people will understand, the need for monetary policy, not just fiscal policy and the gold standard, ridiculed, will come back into serious discussion as a way to constrain the fed's endless money to finance our endless deficit. >> chris: senator. >> housing, which led us into the recession and caused the financial panic because of housing relate instruments, has held the recovery back, the last few years and now it will start overperforming and help lead the economy toward a better growth path and helping offset the cuts in government spending and consumer uncertainty. housing, a good time to buy a home and i think housing will contribute to the economy. >> chris: byron. >> apple computer which not long ago became the world's most valuable company, company in history, stock prices going down and will begin a slow slide as consumers realize that there are no more magic products coming from apple after the death of steve jobs. >> chris: and kirsten?
>> the economy will continue to turn around and not a boon but will slow, slowing the first half of the year and pick up and housing will be a key part of that. >> chris: do you think congress and these continued perils of pauline cliffs, is that going to hurt the economy? >> it will not help it. it will grow in spite of it. but, it will be much more helpful, more certain and the stock market isn't constantly fluctuating, over what congress is going to do. >> chris: finally, an area where we have strong opinions, if not much knowledge, sports. bill? >> i -- >> you could still revise this. i know what you will say. >> i'm looking forward to the game tonight, are you going? >> chris: you are a bigger redskins fan -- >> i'm rooting for them and i being the pessimist i am, i expect them to dash my hopes, and, lose to the cowboys, tonight, and, after the fantastic run they've had,
they'll fall short of the playoff. >> chris: dangerous, because, usually, predictions you have like 6 months, everybody forgets and we'll know tonight, whether he's right or wrong. >> i'm a home state show man after a decade-and-a-half being out of the national title picture i predict notre dame will win the ncaa championship and, my alma mater will make the final four and the colts have been a wonderful story, and, coach stricken by cancer on the sidelines, and, they went from the worst team in the playoffs... go indiana. >> chris: byron? >> i was worried nobody would talk about golf here. i think this coming hear -- and they weren't, tiger woods will make a come back. he will win a major championship, for the first time since he ran his suv into the fire hydrant on thanksgiving night, 2009. today is the 37th birthday -- his 37th birthday but he'll fall
short of jack nicklaus's record of 18 major championships. >> chris: and kirsten. >> as you know, i know nothing about sports. >> chris: you made that clear... >> and i am a fairly recently new d.c. resident, last couple of years and my resolution is to become a d.c. sports fan and i predict next year i will have something to say. >> can you name the teams. >> redskins... nationals... >> chris: yes. what's the basketball team. >> the... you don't need to say it in my ear! i know that! a hockey team, too, right. >> they are not having a good season, right now. >> the capitals? >> chris: there you go! thank you, panel, see you next year and don't forget, check out panel plus, where our group picks up with the discussion on our web site, foxnewssunday.com and we'll post the video before noon eastern time an follow us on twitter, @fox news sunday. and we'll be right back with a
>> chris: finally, we want to thank you for watching us each week, throughout this busy new year. as we say -- actually i should say said news year, as we say good-bye to 2012 and look forward to 2013, here's the names of all the people who work so har, eved every week to put program together, and they really do. from all of us, happy new year and we'll see you, next fox news sunday. ♪ ♪ ♪