tv Face the Nation CBS February 12, 2017 10:30am-11:31am EST
captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: today on "face the nation", president trump feels limitations of the office and the paces of foreign, faces a foreign policy challenge from north korea. >> a 0 north korean missile test interrupted japanese abe's weekend at the winter white house. >> the united states of america stands behind japan, its great ally, 100 percent. >> dickerson: the late nightcaps a week of chaos and interruption. bigger, appeal decision upholding the block on the president's travel ban. undeterred, mr. trump promised to fight but also maybe to start over. >> we will win that battle. we have a lot of other options including just filing a new ban. >> dickerson: what the
president learned from this experience and what is his white move. we will talk to steven miller about that and the crackdown across the nation on illegal, illegal immigration and talk to chuck chiewrm and arizona republican senator jeff flake. and in a week where republicans face outrage back home over the president's policies we will launch a new project to see how things are playing outside of washington. the cbs news newshour nation tracker and in-depth survey of america's views on the trump administration, and the country and our political panel will weigh in on another wild week in washington. it is all coming up on face nation. >> dickerson: good morning and welcome to "face the nation" f i am john dickerson. we begin with the top democratic senator, chuck schumer who joins us from the broadcast center in new york. welcome, senator. i want to start with this question of north korea and the missile test.
do you think this is as test of a new president or is this just north korea doing its periodic thing? >> well, it is both. north korea is showing itself, itself to be an irresponsible nation in every way and i am sure they are testing president trump. i was glad he issued the statement with the prime minister of japan, but he also wants to do it quickly with south korea. south korea is probably more susceptible to north korea's virulence than any other country and there was some doubt cast on the relationship in the campaign by the then candidate trump. so do the same thing with south korea that he did with japan and do it quickly. >> dickerson: is that all that can be done, though s just words and condemn haitian? >> no. the real answer to curtailing north korea is china. like on so many other areas, china has been woefully inadequate and they could squeeze north korea economically, 90 percent of the imports and exports go through china and i think we have to
tell the chinese that they have to put the wood to north korea at a much more serious way than they have done so far. >> dickerson: let's -- i want to move on to the president's executive order on immigration. he is considering maybe doing another executive order. what is your view about that? do you think it is possible to do with -- >> no. i think he ought to throw it in the trash. i think this executive order is so bad and so poisoned and it is, its genesis is so bad and terrible that he ought to just throw it in the trash can and for two reasons. first reason, it doesn't really make us safer. it doesn't focus on the areas where we really need to tighten up. they are, number one, on lone wolves, the last two major terrorist incidents in america didn't occur through immigrants but americans in tune with evil isis and no less authority than john mccain, republican, has said that this order actually encourages lone wolves. and the second is called the
visa wave program. it is very easy to come to america from countries that we have always regarded as friendly .. i think 27 of them, but these days, there are would be terrorists who have infiltrated places like belgium and france and they can come into this country much more easily than someone who is a refugee from the seven countries that the president mentioned. that means real tightening up. >> dickerson:. >> but the second reason this order is so bad, john, it is just unamerican and unconstitutional. a religious ban is just, it goes against the american grain. we believe in immigrants in this country and we don't believe in a religious test and finally, it hurts us economically. when immigrants don't come to this country, it hurts our job creation, our job grover, silicon valley is very worried a lot of their jobs are going to have to go to vancouver are where canada has a much forward looking immigration policy. >> dickerson: let me ask you this, senator. why not just have a pause? we do know in europe that isis has tried to get into the refugee program. they have had issues there.
isn't it okay for a president to come in and say, hey, let's take a look at this vetting. we will have a little bit of a pause here. there is nothing wrong with that, is there? >> well first it is not a pause for syria, and second, it cuts, against the grain of what america is all about, which is it embodies a religious test, that is how rudy giuliani set it up and that is how president trump talk about it, and it doesn't focus on the areas that need to make us safe. three judges on the panel said they showed no evidence our safety is at risk from -- rather they have shown no evidence that this executive order would make us safer. >> dickerson: rudy giuliani i think he said he was moving away from a religious test but let me move on to just working with donald trump in general. the majority -- the democratic leader in the house nancy pelosi said as long it is a president continues down this path, she innocent with the various policies he is promoting there is, there is nothing democrats can work with him on. is that your view too?
that is submit nothing, can't work with him on anything? >> let me say this, we will be guided by our values. our values guide us, we are in the going say no to president trump on things we might totally free with, easy example. he calls for closing the carried interest loophole, something democrats have stood for and republicans have opposed i am not going to say no because his name is on it, but he has moved so far away from moderate positions, you know, he campaigned as a populist againt the democratic and republican establishments, but he is governing as a hard right guy, and his values are so far away from ours it is hard to see where he would cooperate, we could cooperate request him. you know, his cabinet, hard right, not populist, bankers, billionaires, conflicts of interest, people who want to end medicare. those who demean workers. >> dickerson: you talk about your values but you also have got your voters and people protesting in front of your house that say resist or resign.
it looks like the situation in the democratic party is the democrats can never cooperate with the president, without their voters punishing them on everything. >> well, let me say this. first, i think the fact there are protests is a great thing. i have never seen such energy in the streets since the vietnam war, and people are truly worried about president trump. i spent four hours at the women's march in new york, about 20 participant of the people there i queried hadn't vote sod this new energy is a great thing. are they going to be -- sure. but the democrats and so many americans are united in opposing trump in where he is going .. that i think overall it is an extremely positive thing. >> dickerson: let me ask you a specific case on the supreme court nominee, judge jj neil gorsuch which the president put forward you wrote in the "new york times" he quote refused to answer rudimentary questions in your interview with him and you said that was a real challenge. but both democratic and republican nominees for that court spot in the past have refused to answer questions all
the type. that's what they do. so this doesn't seem to me to be something that is particularly new for a supreme court justice or one that has been no, ma'am theyed to refuse to answer questions, they might have to rule on if they get on the bench. >> okay. what is particularly new, john, is that we have a president who is over reaching dramatically, who shows little respect for rule of law, who seems to violate the constitution in his first three weeks and intimidates he judges who have cases before them. this demands a new standard, a much more independent justice than in the past, because after all, the supreme court is our last refuge against a president who over reaches, who doesn't respect balance of power. now, i sat with judge gorsuch and i said, show me your independent, well i am independent, i said show me and i asked him some very specific questions that he should answer. these are not about existing cases. i said, if there was a law that said all muss lips are banned
from the united states, would that be unconstitutional, that has nothing to do with the case before him or before us, before the court. he wouldn't answer. i asked him, what is his opinion of citizens united? an awful case, or the shelby case which undid voting rights, he wouldn't answer i asked him what is his view of some conservative legal scholars who have said president trump -- >> dickerson: let me ask you quickly senator. >> he wouldn't answer anything. i want to say one more thing. i had the erie feeling i was sitting just the same as with judge roberts when he was a judge. he wouldn't answer any questions. he said he called balls and vibes, he got into office and he became an activist judge and moved the country far to the right favoring special interests over working people. >> dickerson: final question, senator, he did mention though he thought it was disheartening that the president trump's comments about the judiciary and if you look at his record he has clashed with the idea of giving deference to the executive branch on regulate questions, so if you look at his record, he
has not, he has shown separation from executive and his words as well .. >> well i asked him would he publicly condemn what president trump did with the existing judge, which any judge worth his salt should do. he refused. he said to me, i am disheartened. now, his handlers were sitting there and he whispered you can make that public. so this was not dash behind closed doors, behind closed doors whisper to a senator and not say anything and when president trump attacked and said he didn't mean me, they all said yeah he didn't mean president trump. that was a further indication of his lack of independence. >> dickerson: all right, senator, we will have to leave it there. senator schumer thanks so much for being with us. and we go to arizona, jeff flake who sits on the judiciary committee and in phoenix this morning. senator, on this question of the travel ban, you were against it when it first came out. the way the house clarified some issues, particularly with respect to green card holders so what is your view of it now?
>> i do think it is constitutional. it is not a muss lip ban. it is focused on countries rather than religion or individuals. having said that, i have been clear i don't think it is a good idea. i think that the message that it sends to our allies abroad and the countries that we need to work with is not a good one. but i do think it is constitutional and i hope that we will pause and reflect and see where we need to go from here. >> dickerson: do you think the president should start over and issue a new one? >> well, we will see. i mean, obviously the president wants to keep the country safe. i recognize that. i think everybody does and i applaud him for trying to do so. but obviously it needs to be constitutional and it needs to be wise. we need to look and see where the real threats are and base this upon threats and not so much just what was promised in the campaign. >> dickerson: do you think the court was wrong to look at the
comments that the president made, president trump made when he was a candidate about a muslim ban in determining that this was -- that this executive order did have a religious test as a part of it? >> well, i do think the president has brought authority when it, broad authority when it comes to immigration and those who enter the country. so, yes, it troubles me a bit when the court is looking at motives or try to decide what the motives were. so, yes, that troubles me. having said that, like i said, i hope we move ahead and the president obviously wants to keep the country safe, we recognize that. that's a good thing. but i think we can arrive at policies that do it in a better way. >> dickerson: you are on the judiciary committee, you know about the way, the separation of powers, how presidents are supposed to treat judges. what is your assessment of the way president trump has talked about the judicial branch? >> well, it is fine to disagree with opinions. i mean, i reside in arizona where the ninth circumstance, we do a lot of complaining about
our circuit that has over, that is overturned more than any other circuit by the supreme court. it is fine to question the judgment, but to go avid judges or to talk about them i think judge gorsuch said it right, that is disheartening, and i think that we ought to avoid any personal attacks like that. >> do you think the president suggested that if there was a terrorist attack that the judge in seattle should be, and i guess now also the ninth circuit should be blamed if there is such an attack because of holding up this ruling? do you think that is appropriate? >> i just don't -- like i said, i don't think the ban that was in place was really based on our national intelligence or their assessment and so i don't think that that is healthy to do that, to try to blame judges or individuals. it is, if something happens in the future, but like i said, the president wants to keep the country safe. that is the motive.
we recognize that. >> dickerson: and previously, we explain to people why it matters there should be a separation between the judiciary and the presidency. >> yes. it does matter. these are three separate branches of government. that is the genius of our government and when i sat down with judge gorsuch that's what i appreciated most is his recognition there. he said, when he puts on the robe he recognizes that he is not a legislator and that is that we need, certainly, is judges that recognize the separation of powers and also legislators that do and the executive branch as well. that is what has made this country work so well for more than 200 years. >> dickerson: let me ask you a question about immigration. there has been an up tick in arrests following, it appears donald trump's promise he is going to crack down on criminals who are in the united states illegally. there is also some reporting that in addition there is also some small number that have been detained pause they are here just illegally but vice president committed any crimes what is your sense of what is
happening right now. is it what you expected from president trump? >> well, president trump promised to go after those who have committed februaries, felonies, aggravated fence and he is felonies and she doing, so that is applauded and money is shed ago tear for rapists and others for being deported and i am glad those are being expedited f but obviously .. we in congress need to reform immigration moving ahead. we have the -- that is going to come up because some of them are timing out of the program they are in now, and the president has expressed a willingness to work with congress on that. at the same time that he does that, i hope that we can work with him on some of the other issues. those who are in the country like the woman in arizona who was deported simply because she used documents, fake documents to work. i don't think anybody wants to put her in the same class as aggravated felon whose endanger public safety so i think we can work
with the administration obviously we are reaching out to them to do so. >> dickerson: president trump in an interview said people like the woman you described who is, whose only illegal act, is being here illegally shouldn't be afraid. do you think she and others should not be worried about the way immigration reform will be carried out by the administration? >> well, it is difficult right now, as we have heard from the white house, even this morning, it is difficult, the white house shouldn't be telling ice officials and others how to prioritize. obviously, some prioritization goes on, but i can tell you, there is a lot of worry here in arizona by those who have committed, you know, have come across, are illegally here but they have not committed aggravated felonies and i hope, and the only way to address this in a real way, a permanent way is for congress to get involved. the president needs to work with the congress. we are reaching out to him on
that. >> dickerson: all right, senator, thanks so much for being with us and we will be back in one moment. don't put off checking out your options until sixty-five. now is a good time to get the ball rolling. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like any of these types of plans, it could help you with out-of-pocket medical costs. call now and request your free decision guide and explore the range of aarp medicare supplement plans. start gathering the information you need...
to roll into sixty-five with confidence. >> dickerson: okay. so we are joined now by cbs news elections director an thon any salvanto who is launching the survey trackers, monitoring americans' views on the trump administration, congress and the country, anthony it is to a great so are have you back, let's describe first for people what this is. >> well as we did in 2016, the goal is always to understand people and listen to them, not simply to predict them or stick a number on them. so what we wanted to do was go out there and assembled a large representative panel from the country. it is balanced with people who supported donald trump and voted for him and people who backed hillary clinton, and those who didn't vote and it is harmer than a typical poll so what we are going to do is we are going to return to this panel again and again and follow how these people are feeling about the
administration, but more important, john, what they want and why they want it to really understand this complexity behind this sort of idea that the nation is divided. >> dickerson: and what is sofas neigh about over all of the years of talking to voters this is just a huge, massive group that all seem to get a sense of how they are sifting and sorting all of this fast breaking news and how it is filtering out to them from the time in washington where the news seems to change every ten seconds. >> yes, america doesn't always process and think the way washington thinks or the washington thinks america thinks. >> dickerson: well, let's just, what is the basic groupings that you have come up with in your findings? >> welshes folks have sorted themselves into four basic groups with regards to how they feel about the administration right now. there is four of them and they are first what we call the beliefers, the people who are strongly with the president. and then there is a second group who are also in support of him but with úonditions. they are waiting to see him deliver. there is a third group that superintendent supporting
him right now but could and we will talk about what they are looking for and then there is a fourth group of those who are firmly opposed. >> dickerson: all right. good. so we have got four groups. let's start with the first group, the believers, give us the characteristics of that group. >> yes, the beliefers like everything they see, they like what he is doing and like how he is doing it. they feel he is delivering on what he promised in the campaign, if not more. they like the travel ban. they would support him going around the courts to enforce the ban. they like the law idea and think, wall idea and mexico will pay for it and concerned with the security of the country and believe donald trump on the facts when people challenge him and they defend him. they are about a fifth, they are about a fifth of the nation right now. okay? >> dickerson: and this is the group that president trump when he was a candidate he joked, i could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue and people would still be for me. so the believers in the country, these are the ones that are really fall for the president. >> the base of the base but
different from this group who also support the president, who are the conditional supporters, and they are with him now, this he like to the travel ban, they don't like it as much as the beliefers, believers but they are focused on the economy and what they say is, if he doesn't deliver on the economy, he could lose their support. they voted for him because they thought he could fix it, because they need to see him deliver jobs. what they like is they think he is shaking up washington, so he has not that going. and so they are not, they don't like the tweets as much and the communication style but they are waiting on the economy. >> dickerson: and a these conditional voters are the ones we have run into for when president trump was a candidate and we hear are them every morning in my conversations with those i met out on the campaign trail and still stay in touch with, they say, you know, in washington, you care about this and that and the other thing. i saw hip talking at carrier about jobs and that's why i want him in washington and all of this chaos you are concerned about in washington that's what i wanted is for him to go and break up washington. so that is
the conditional voters a in the second group. who is in the third group? >> the third is really interesting because they could come over and support him and they say so, which is when you see the support numbers in in, and these approval numbers they could go lower but they could also go a lot higher if he were to be able to bring these groups also. they are also looking for him to fix the economy. and that is what they want him to do. >do. >> and these are democrats he could pick up. >> they are not with him yet but they could. >> some democrats and a lot of independent i wants there is also a lot of voters who stayed out of this election but they are kind of rooting for him in a way. they want him to succeed. they want the nation to succeed, but they are hot there and the other key of it, john, is they feel he hasn't reached out to them and feel he doesn't respect people of different views. right now there are people with different views with him on policy, but if you were to make that reaching out, they say, they could come over. >> dickerson: so this is the tension between the people who really love president trump and those he needs to get that are
just outside of that group. >> right. because these people we call them curious, they think democrats should work with donald trump to find suings where they can, but the resisters, that part of the democratic base, the fourth group,. >> dickerson: the resisters, what is their profile? >> well their profile they want the democrats and most of them are democrats, liberal democrats, to stand up against trump on almost everything. so that is the tension, because what do the democrats do? they probably have got to satisfy both of these groups of current trump opponents, but their profile is also beyond being more liberal and opposed to the president on these policies, democrats based voters and more likely to be women and minority voters. they also feel that the president isn't reaching out, isn't trying to respect all of their views. and they are angrier than most of the other trump opponents, they say they feel angry, but not yet motivated and that is part -- not yet motivated so the democrats will have to sort of work on that part of the base. >> dickerson: and we started
talk about it with chuck schumers the resist errs and the curious that is where the fight is, the base a that wants no dealing with donald trump at all and the curious who wants democrats to at least try to work with the real estate. anthony salvanto thanks so much, as always we can't wait to follow this throughout the trump presidency and we will be back in a moment. >> this portion of "face the nation" is sponsored by america's biopharmaceutical companies. go boldly.
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>> dickerson: we go now to the white house briefing room and president trump's senior policy advisor stephen miller. mr. miller i want to start with this north korean test overnight .. in 2013 mr. trump tweeted where is the president? it is time for him to come on tv and show strength against the repeated threats from north korea. now that she president, president trump made a statement last night supporting japan standing behind japan but department mention north korea yacht what is his, what in his statement is going to make them step back from their course of action. >> good to be with you, john, and thank you for having me here today so you saw the president following through on exactly what he said he would. do he went outlast might in front of the tv cameras and stood shoulder to shoulder with the prime minister of japan and sent a message to the whole world we stand with our allies, but we are going to send another signal very soon and that signal is when we begin a great rebuilding
of the armed force office the united states. president trump campaigned on this, president trump has led the effort on this and president trump is going to go to congress and ask them to invest in owl military so once again we will have unquestioned military strength beyond anything anybody can imagine. >> but that is going to take a little time. so no other show of strength in terms of -- >> last night because show of strength. saying that we stand with our ally, having the two men appear on camera worldwide to all of planet earth was a statement that will be understood very well by north korea. >> dickerson: let's move on to the president's executive order on immigration. the president has said both see you in court and also suggested there might be a new executive order. which way is he going? >> it is a great, great topic, because there are so many things we can do. for one thing, we can take the case to the supreme court on the emergency stay. we can go back to to the district court and we can have a hearing on the merits. we can go to the bank to have it heard en banc or if we want to we can
continue the female with the panel. additionally we are considering new and further executive actions that will enhance the security posture of the united states, i think the point, john, is that the president has enormous powers, both delegated to him by congress and under the constitution, his article 2 foreign affairs power to control the entry of aliens into our country and he is going to use that authority to keep us safe. >> dickerson: okay. we will wait for news on that. when i talk to republicans on the hill, they wonder, what in the white house, what have you learned from this experience with the executive order. >> i think it has been an important reminder to all americans we have a judiciary that has taken far too much power and become in many case as supreme branch of government. one unelected judge in seattle cannot remake laws for the entire country. i mean, this is just crazy, john, the idea you have a judge in seattle say, that a foreign national living in libya has an
effective right to enter the united states is beyond anything we have ever seen before. the end result of this, though, is that our opponents, to the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned. >> dickerson: well i guess let me step back. the question as i talked to republicans on the hill is, what you are learning inside the white house about the way you do things. it has been pretty busy up there. just stepping back, do you feel like you and your staff there that you are in control of events at the white house? >> i think the word control is a sam understatement. the president of the united states has accomplished more in just a few weeks than many presidents accomplish in an entire administration. you have seen for instance profound regulatory reform for every one new inflation two must go. we have seen ethic reforms to drain the swamp and an effort to bring back jobs with intel and ford and general motors and seen action taken with an executive
order to go after criminal cartels that have plagued our cities for years with no effective response. on issue after issue we are taking forceful action to deliver on the president's campaign promises on a breathtaking scale. >> one of the promises the president made recently on january 15th was about obamacare, he said it very much formulated down to the final strokes. we haven't put it in quite yet, but we are going to be doing it soon. that was almost a month ago. so when will we see his replacement for obamacare? we are very far along on this, further along than most people realize but the president as he said many times you don't always want to show all of your cards, obviously we are dealing with a situation where you have some people in the other party that are being obstructionist for its own sake, slowing down cabinet nominees who inevitably will be confirmed for no particular reason even if it means jeopardizing public safety but we have a plan we are putting in motion thousand, some elements of it, you are already familiar with, we campaigned on, talking about things like health savings
accounts and we look forward to presenting more details to the american public soon. >> dickerson: i want to ask you about raids to bring in people that have broken the law, criminals, and also in those raids there have been some people whose only breaking of the law is being here illegally when the president was asked about this recently in an interview, he said about those who are here illegally and that's the only law they have broken they shouldn't be very worried. i do have a big heart, we are going to take care of everybody. where you have great people here that have done a good job, they should feel far less worried, that was in an interview with abc, so should people feel less worried still? >> well, there is, is there a specific case you are referring to? >> dickerson: just in general the president said you should feel less worried. >> whe when you are talkable abt particular deportation cases that you feel -- >> there has been an up tick in activity. >> the cases i am familiar with, the reason i ask that have to do with removing criminal aliens, individuals who have criminal charges or convictions against them and that's what has been
taking place all across the country, and the effect of that is going to be saving many american lives, american property and american safety. >> dickerson: but in terms of -- but people who are -- who have not committed any crime other than being here illegally should still feel less worried? that is still in operation? >> it is not for me to tell people how to feel or not to feel. we are in the process of removing criminal aliens from the country and enforcing immigration laws and keeping the public safe and the bottom line is this. in the calculation between open borders and saving american lives it is easiest choice we will ever have to make. >> dickerson: all right. we will have to leave it there. steven miller thanks so much for being with us and we will be right back. >> once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. aleve direct therapy.
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nordstrom -- [ cheers and applause ] and okay. and this nordstrom loss, because these are high, high quality products, in fact, i am wearing one of her bankables right now, it is beautiful, it is chimmering and $9 '99 and unbelievably affordable. okay? and don't even get me started on her shoes. because these babies, a real head turner. >> dickerson: and that was actress melissa mccarthy playing the role of white house press secretary sean spicer on last
night's saturday night live spoofing one of the many stories this week in washington that of kellyanne conway promoting of ivanka trump's fashion line on television so to talk about that and just a few other things now, susan page of, she is the washington bureau chief of u.s. a today, peter baker is the white house correspondent for "the new york times". rio de janeiro is the executive editor of, reihan salam is the executive editor of the "national review" and ron brownstein from atlantic media. we are seeing they lisa mccarthy's flexibility. >> dickerson: peter, let me start with you, mr. miller suggested everything is going fine, perfect, not just that but an understatement to say that this has been super productive, so five us your assessment of the way things now stand at the white house after this very busy several weeks. >> the thing, the under control, if what you want is control then that is true. we are talking about different realities here. the reality for a lot of americans who do support president trump is that things
are going well. they do want him to take on illegal immigration and the borders and terrorisms and so forth and they see an establishment standing against him, he needs to battle against it is not enough to be polite, you have to go to war with them. but for the rest of washington, including the republicans like jeff flake like who came on earlier this is a real problem and a they don't see a white house that seems to have a ship heading in a clear direction. >> dickerson: susan we are used to getting spin on sunday mornings and so steven miller was in one sense doing what they are supposed to do, talk about how well everything is doing but what i hear on the hill and do you hear the same thing which is they need to see some signal that they get it inside of the white house of where things have gone poorly and where they have gone well. is that a risk for them if they are just saying everything is great, that they are not in touch with maybe some of the worries their allies have. >> we heard them say to you there have been more accomplishments from president trump in the first three weeks than in an entire tenure, i
think it is an extraordinary same, it is true president trump had a lot of active. one thing we have seen happen mostly in the last week he is now colliding with the constraints of his office. presidency has a lot of power, but it is one with both constitutional constraints, like the oversight of the courts, you saw steve miller say the courts are not extreme, actually when it comes to an executive order is constitutional and whether it can be stayed the courts role will be supreme on that kind of decision and in running into the realities of things like foreign capitals, like for instance in this past week the president acknowledged that he believed in the support o of the one china policy, that sat change on his part and it reflects the bower of foreign capitals t to reflect what a president can and cannot say. i think the question for some congressional republicans and others is, are they learning a, this is a learning curve where they will learn some of these 11 and operate in a more skill manner in this new kind of leadership role. >> dickerson: i will get back to china a naah moment but obviously that gets into north
korea as senator schumer said. what is your assessment of the activist trump presidency as it hits the constraints of the office that are natural? >> well one of the funny things you see under any president is that public opinion often moves in the opposite direction of a president, so for example, under barack obama suddenly the public moved no the right on a number of different issues but donald trump has had saturation coverage for a very long time, and it seems the net effect on public opinion, on some of this core issues has actually been to move the public in the opposite direction from him. so for example, if you look at opinion on immigration policy, the public was actually closer to mitt romney's position than baron's position. if you look at the past year and a half, as donald trump has moved very visible talking about immigration, actually opinion on immigration has moved in the opposite direction towards a more generous stance on unauthorized immigrants and the like. so the thing is that if i am stephen miller or donald dond trump i need to think strategically how do you change
the dynamic and how do you grow? donald trump frankly is pretty constrained coalition and the problem is that he has been doing things that are the opposite of what you would want to do. if you are a disciplined political operation, what you would go is you would deny sympathetic plaintiffs to your opponent, if there is a perception that you are not entire he competent, what you to is move very slowly and cautiously to demonstrate in the early phases of your administration, no, i am reassuring you. i am showing you a different side of my personal that you did not see during the campaign and then you move systematically to expand your agenda, to become more ambitious overtime. so donald trump has done the opposite of that, and that is going to be a problem if you believe in the kind of trump miller agenda of doing something that is actually quite distinct from prior republican candidates. there is no question that movement since he has been in office has been to accentuate what we saw in the campaign. we, in the 2016 campaign what he did is it accelerated and intensified all of the divides that have been
building focus the past two decades in american politics, the class divides, the racial divides, the generational divides, and as president trump moved that even more forward, you look at his numbers as he has been president and it is true a lot of people are excited what about he is doing and like his idea of coming to washington and breaking all of the windows in the capitol but he is facing more resistant in pane than any president ever, a public approval rating of 50 percent in gallup eight days into his presidency, that is kind of a long-term measure of, this it took 600 days for president obama to reach 50 percent disapproval, ronald reagan -- w. bush, 1,200 days into their presidency, so we are in a very different situation where, yes, there is an excited pool of what he is doing but facing more mobilized resistance and while that may not have much influence on him or even congressional republicans it is unquestionably changed the way congressional democrats are reacting to his presidency as you saw in an interview with chuck schumer he
doesn't have the maneuverability to work here and fight here he is facing unrelenting pressure from a democratic base, where the trump approval is over 80 percent, like, to have a much more forceful resistance, in fact donald trump did more to galvanize the opposition to him than galvanize the support for him and still has a core support that is probably below the 46 participant level that he got in the election, but he has done enormous benefits and created some risks for democrats in getting them united, and it ginned up so much that it is hard fortuning schumer, move into the areas we can, for, chuck schumer, you do not hear that a kind of talk from chuck schumer. >> dickerson: the democrats will penalize the democratic base, the democratic base will punish them for normalizing donald trump. what do you think the president is going to do on the executive order? we don't know. all options are open, but what is the wise course in your view?
>> well, the difficult thing is that a lot of the real challenge is relating to green card holders. the executive order that is being, you know, fought over right now department actually make it clear that green card holders are not a part of this, and if you have another executive action that explicitly takes them out of it then you could have a smoother ride in the courts. as to what the wisest course of action, i do think that is starting anew would be the best way to go, beach i even if grew to supreme court if you have eight supreme court it is kicked back no the circuit court, so i actually do think they are on pretty strong ground. the problem is, do you just evaluate this executive order within the four corners of the executive order itself or do you take into account statements made by various political advisors, people like rude difficult giuliani and what have you to say the intent of this was something entirely different? and, you know, that is really up to the courts. so my sense is that starting afresh and also having a larger messaging around
it that shows that this is limited and specific would be very helpful. >> dickerson: that goes back to that question of having a strategic approach. peter let me ask you a question about national security advisor michael flynn. explain what has happened with him and his negotiations or nonnegotiations with the russian ambassador before the election. >> >> dickerson: before the inauguration. >> before the inauguration when thethey were not yet in power, michael flynn who is now the national security vis sorry had discussions with the russian ambassador and the question is did they talk about sanctions? and michael flynn initially said no we didn't talk about that but now we have seen reports in the "washington post" that he did and michael flynn backed off and saying well he doesn't necessarily remember it is not what a he recalls. the important part is he told vice president mike pence that and mike pence went out and basically defended him and, on "face the nation", what will -- >> so now he is hanging out there and we saw -- in the past
administration when scott mcclelland defended karl rove that was a permanent fissure in the white house over that moment and can michael flynn sur survie does he have the credibility and trust of the president and the disrespect of the united states and a lot of talk this weekend about he is in a precarious position. >> there is significant obviously the national security advisor, i think it is significant it clearly signals the broader investigation is the context between the trump campaign and russian sources is ongoing. i mean, the most important point in the story last week in the "washington post" was nine, nine former intelligence officials confirming this account, and. >> that the contact took place about sanctions. >> and there had been reports now this week by cnn and i believe cbs as well that some aspects of the dossier, not necessarily the most explosive aspects of the dossier assembled on candidate trump have been verified by u.s. intelligence,
so all of that sort of suggests that while all of these other explosions are going on, all of these -- in the background, this investigation is kind of marching on and there are people engaged in the investigation who want to have parts of it out in the public, perhaps -- >> dickerson: we will have to take a short break there but a lot more to talk about so we will be back. stay with us. >>
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>> dickerson: and we are back with more from our politics panel, susan i want to pick up with you with michael flynn. the challenge for him because of the key role he plays in dictating foreign policy for president trump. >> no question. and one problem with his defense whether he discussed sanctions with the russian official is that even the defense is not much of a defense, either he talked about it and lied about it or he doesn't remember talking about it which is also i think not the actual strongest defense you can make. in addition, there were questions raised about his role as national security advisor last night when donald trump came out with the japanese prime minister to talk about north korea and then didn't say the words north korea, all he said is we stand 100 percent behind our friends in japan. that is one role of a national security advisor to be insured to give the president the words he needs to say in a crucial situation like that.
>> dickerson: hugely condemn north korea. >> at least say the words north korea. >> dickerson: peter, do you see, just add on to whatever you were about to say, senator schumer talked about china. >> yes. >> and this week the president reaffirmed the one china policy, a bit of a climb down from the signals being sent early in the administration they were going to talk about taiwan or be a little bit tougher on china. what did you make of that? is there a north korean connection there or -- >> well there is and i think you are seeing a rather striking set of developments in the last week or so in which he is kind of tempering his foreign policy. he is being bellicose and you would expect a tweet this morning about north korea, i can't you are on notice, stop that. you would expect to that, he did have a call with china, he said to an israeli paper he said settlements are not helpful and he didn't say he is actually going to move the embassy to jerusalem help. he hasn't yet lifted sanctions on russia. there are a number of signs, and as you point out, rex tillerson told the secretary of state told the eu they are going to leave
the "rap deal for a moment in place so there are signs on foreign policy there are shifts and evolutions and in fact it is kind of tempering his normal instincts. >> dickerson:. >> but israel one thing that is worthy of note, for netanyahu, this week, his domestic political situation is such he has used the united states in order to make the domestic case to the settler movement, hey, guys, i can't be completely with you because the united states is holding me back so donald trump now you could argue is, in fact, working closely with netanyahu by providing that countervailing pressure. you could see this across the variety of other domains as well. it seeps as though with, what donald trump is trying to do is something similar to let's say the nixon doctrine, the idea we are not always going to be out front but stand behind our ally japan -- we are going to empathize the partnership and that is still compatible with what he said in the campaign, but we are going to have a different kind of relationship in which we are going to share the burden, so we are going to be a cooperative, constructive partner, but you cannot expect
us to bear the entire burden which i think is -- >> dickerson: in the campaign, he seemed to believe in the idea of kind of regional strong men as it were and the idea of the overarching u.s. guarantee being the underpin okay the international system is what he was moving back from. >> now quickly we have about two minutes left, on the affordable care act and the replacement from it, donald trump did say he would have a replacement. it is taking a hot longer for everybody. what is behind that? >> , you know, in the campaign he promised to immediately repeal and replace it. it is taking much longer. i think is this is another sign of the reality of washington politics imposing itself. it is not so easy. congressional republicans are divided on what to replace it with and a lot of republicans, especially in the senate are really nervous about the idea of repealing it and delaying the repeal before you tell people what you are going to replace it with, and the big protests you are seeing at congressional town hauls is a sign of that. >> i believe it is a more fundamental problem is that the republican alternatives to the obamacare would lower costs for younger and healthier people who
mostly vote democratic at the price of raising costs and diminishing access for older people with greater health, who mostly vote republican. go through the ideas, interstate sale of insurance, health safely accounts, repealing the individual mandate repealing the individual mandate, all of these may mean less costs for young people who have been asked under obamacare to buy more insurance than they want to reduce the price for older people and now if you unwind that, essentially, you have the risk that at a time when a majority of trump's votes came from whites over 45, when 60 percent of the republicans represent districts older than the national average that is the group, 45 to 65 working age adults right before medicare are the biggest losers potentially in a republican remains and they are the core of the republican coalition. >> dickerson: 20 seconds left. >> the obamacare election was in 2012, that's when this went into place and that permanently changed the politics, ron johnson, the pea father senator there wisconsin first selected in 2010 staunchly anti-obama --
reelected this time now says we want to fix obamacare and it is an over simplification to say we will repeal and replace. the politics are permanently different and you could, i believe, get a deal with senate democrats the question is will donald trump push in that direction. >> noncollege white sox are the principal benefits -- >> dickerson: that's it. we will have to end there. thanks to all of you for joining us and we will be right back. >>
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