tv Democracy Now LINKTV December 30, 2013 8:00am-9:01am PST
12/30/13 12/30/13 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> a child born today, will grow up with no conception of privacy at all. they will never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves, and unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. and that is a problem because privacy matters. by this he is what allows us to determine who we are -- privacy allows us to determine who we
are and who we want to be. >> as a federal judge upholds the nsa xfone collection records program exposed by edward snowden, new details emerge about a secretive nsa unit hacks into computers around the world. sometimes the nsa even intercepts computers purchased online in order to place spyware on them before the customer receives them. we will speak to journalists glenn greenwald and jameel jaffer of the aclu. >> there is a broader pattern here in which the courts are advocating their role under our constitutional system. they are supposed to be ensuring the government's national security policies are consistent with the constitution. instead, what is happening as many of these challenges are being thrown out at the threshold. >> despite long-term unemployment being at its highest level since world war ii, 1.3 million americans have just lost their unemployment benefits. we will look at why. all of that and more coming up.
this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. opposition activists are claiming over 500 people have died in weeks of syrian government airstrikes on the city of aleppo. the steering observatory for human rights has the debt children.51 syrian government helicopters have been hitting aleppo with highly destructive barrel bombs -- oil drums filled with explosives and sometimes with nails or scrap metal. at least 25 people were reportedly killed on saturday when government forces bombed a vegetable market. meanwhile, the al-assad regime has evacuated thousands of residents from the town of adra amidst heavy clashes with rebel fighters. at least 31 people have died in two consecutive days of bombings in the russian city of volgogr ad. 17 people were killed and 34
winded on sunday when a female suicide bomber hit a train station. another 14 people were killed earlier today when a bomber hit a packed bus. no group has claimed responsibility, but russia has faced repeated attacks from islamist militants in chechnya and north caucuses. russia is set to host the winter olympics in just over a month. warning of are humanitarian crisis amidst sectarian violence in the central african republic. the local coordinator of doctors without borders says over 100,000 people have now sought shelter at one camp for the displaced in the capital. weeks now, these people haven't received any other assistance but health assistance from doctors without borders and water from the red cross. there are no toilets. water is not sufficient. there's no food distribution. there is so much to do. first of all, we have to improve
the situation with the hygiene as soon as possible before the sachin -- situation becomes catastrophic. it is an emergency. we must do something quickly. >> african leaders have set a deadline of tuesday for talks between the south sudanese government and rebel fighters. or than 1000 people have died and tens of thousands have been displaced in over two weeks of fighting between government forces and rebels loyal to the country's ousted former vice president. in kenya, ethiopia's foreign minister read a statement on behalf of regional country supporting south sudanese president salva kiir. >> welcome the commitment by the government of the republic of cell sedan to mediate cessation of hostilities and call on the parties to make similar commitments. and if hostilities do not cease within four days of this communiqué, the summit will consider taking further
measures. condemns all constitutional actions to challenge the constitutional order, democracy, and rule of law, and in particularly, condemns changing the democratic government of the republic of south sudan through the use of force. trucks that was ethiopia's foreign minister. a federal judge has upheld the national security agency's ball collection of u.s. telephone data just days after a separate court reached an opposite opinion. friday, district judge william polley dismissed a lawsuit from the american civil liberties union challenging the nsa's mass collection of u.s. phone records. he said telephone metadata could have potentially prevented the 9/11 attacks by alerting the government to hijackers who made phone calls from the united states. the issue will likely head to the supreme court. polly's ruling comes less than two weeks after another federal
judge questioned the program's constitutionality and described the bulk collection as almost orwellian. the german publication der spiegel has revealed new details about a secretive hacking unit inside the nsa call the office of tailored access operations, or tao. the unit was created in 1997 to hack into global communications traffic. hackers inside the tao have developed a way to break into computers running microsoft windows by gaining passive access to machines when users report program crashes to microsoft. with help from the cia and fbi, the nsa has the ability to intercept computers and other electronic accessories purchased online in order to secretly insert spyware and components i can provide backdoor access for spies. we will have more on the nsa news later after headlines. jobless benefits have expired for over 1.3 million americans after congress fell to renew
them under the recent budget deal. the program provided up to 47 weeks of supplemental unemployment insurance payments to jobless people looking for work. just one quarter of unemployed americans will now receive jobless benefits. the smallest proportion in half a century. more on the story later in the broadcast. the white house says nearly 2 million people have signed up for health insurance plans to the federal and state exchanges in the first three months of enrollment. over 1.1 million signed up through the federal website healthcare.gov including over 975,000 in december. egypt is facing continued violence and unrest amidst the latest escalation of the military government's crackdown on the muslim brotherhood. on sunday, four soldiers were when it when a bomb struck a military building north of cairo. a bombing last week on to the egyptian government to deem the muslim brotherhood a terrorist organization, even though a separate militant group claimed
responsibility. one person was killed and over 100 board attained over the weekend and student protests against the anti-brotherhood crackdown. buildings on the university campus were set on fire during the unrest. egypt is set to hold a referendum on a new constitution next month. egyptian forces meanwhile have arrested for journalists with the news network al jazeera in cairo. , twospondent peter greste producers and a cameraman were detained at their hotel on sunday. al jazeera's calling for their immediate release. egypt's military government has repeatedly targeted al jazeera, rating offices, ordering and affiliates closure, and supporting several of his staffers. -- deporting several of its staffers. receiving $3 billion in aid from saudi arabia. the lebanese government says the money will go to its military.
the announcement follows friday's bombing in beirut that killed five people, including ,ormer minister mohammed chatah a critic of syrian president bashar al-assad and the lebanese group hezbollah. a health worker overseeing the polio vaccination effort in pakistan has been shot dead. the victim was the latest medical official to be killed in the fallout from the u.s. assassination of osama bin laden. the taliban began attacking health workers after it was revealed the cia used a fake vaccination program to help locate osama bin laden. intelligence estimate warns afghanistan will likely descend into chaos unless the two sides can sign a long-term agreement to maintain american troops. hasan president karzai delayed ratification of a security pact that would keep u.s. forces in afghanistan after 2014. the national intelligence estimate says u.s. gains will be eroded within three years without a large military presence to fight the taliban.
thousands of people have rallied on the japanese island of okinawa in protest of plans to relocate a u.s. military base. local officials sign on to a deal last week that will move the base from a densely populated urban area to a more remote location. but a movement of okinawa residents has opposed the base altogether and pushed for ousting u.s. forces off the island, citing environmental concerns and sexual assaults by your soldiers on local residents. peopleay, thousands of surrounded a government building and staged a sit in inside. new investigation challenges right-wing claims around the deadly attack on u.s. consulate him and got the that was in libya last year. "the new york times" reports there's no evidence al qaeda or other international militants played a role in the assault that killed four americans, including ambassador christopher stevens. the attack was coordinated by local militia who in fact
benefited from the u.s.-backed nato intervention against colonel muammar gaddafi. it also appears that anger over anti-islam film produced in the muslimshe innocence of ," helped fill the attack as the obama ministration initially claimed. protests are continuing in new york city over incoming mayor bill de blasio's appointment of william bratton as the next police commissioner. bryan returns to the job after leading the nypd in the mid- 1990s when he and braced a controversial strategy of cracking down on low-level offenses. de blasio campaigned on a promise to curb the nypd's controversial stop and frisk policy, but bratton actually expanded the program will heading the los angeles police. parents ofthe victims shot dead by police under bratton's watch that a protest march from harlem to the bronx. nicholas heyward, senior lost his 13-year-old son after police mistook the boys toy rifle for real gun. >> i'm angry today. i've been angry since hearing
bill de blasio has chosen bill bratton to be the next commissioner. back in 1994, my son was murdered and he was gunned down by new york city police officer. you should have addressed that issue. but he failed to do that. this protest -- you have parents and families out here who had their innocent loved ones killed . that is what we're talking about. we do not wish for william bratton to be the police commissioner of new york city again. >> organizers said they plan to 'sntinue protest at de blasio inauguration on wednesday. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. to one of the biggest stories of 2013 -- the national security agency and its massive to mystic international surveillance apparatus. the german publication der
spiegel has revealed new details about a secretive hacking unit inside the nsa called the office of tailored access operations, or gao. the unit was created in 1997 to hack into global communications traffic. the der spiegel report includes a number of new details about the nsa's hacking abilities. hackers inside the secretive unit have developed a way to break into computers running microsoft windows by gaining passive access to machines when users report program crashes to microsoft. fbi,help from the cia and the nsa has the ability to intercept computers and other electronic accessories purchased online in order to secretly insert spyware and components that can provide backdoor access for the intelligence agencies. in one secret operation called white tamale, the nsa hacked into the communications of mexico's secretariat of public security.
publishedlations were just two days after a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit filed by the american civil liberties union challenging the nsa's use -- mass collection of u.s. phone records. u.s. district judge william polley wrote -- another federal judge questioned the constitutionality and described it as almost orwellian. we're joined today by two guests. ,our new york, jameel jaffer deputy legal director of the aclu and director of the aclu's center for democracy. and joining us from brazil is glenn greenwald.
she was pre-was the a columnist at "the guardian" and is creating an immediate venture with the ebay founder, to .eschedule, and laura poitras what exactly did the judge rule? >> it is a ruling that is limiting to the bulk surveillance of collecting metadata. there's a program the nsa has in place now and has had in place now for seven years at least that collects information about every single phone call nader received on u.s. telephone network so that means every time you pick up the phone, the nsa is making a note in some sense of who you called, how long you spoke to them, when you call them, every single time you pick up the phone. the nsa is doing that with respect to every single phone in thede in the usa -- united states. we challenge the constitutionality. judge polly appel the program saying first congress had
intended to prevent people like us, that is the targets of this surveillance, from challenging the scanner program in court. also the constitution doesn't foreclose the government from collecting this kind of information about everybody. obvious they, we disagreed strongly with the decision and think it is wrong the multiple respects and intent to appeal it. >> explain exactly who you represented in this lawsuit. >> we represent the aclu. i work for the aclu myself but declined in this case is aclu. these organizations are the clients because we are verizon subscribers. the order that was disclosed by when greenwald and the guardian is in order that requires verizon to turn over all of its information, all of this kind of information to the nsa on a daily basis. so we have evidence now that our own communications were
monitored in this way. we know that everybody's communications are monitored in this way. we were able to go into court to challenge the program because we have this evidence. >> when greenwald, your response to the judge's ruling? this comes right after another judge, u.s. district judge richard leon, called the nsa surveillance on most orwellian and likely unconstitutional. history of thehe post-9/11 era has been one of failed institutions are particularly those designed to check abuses by the executive branch in the intelligence community, beginning with the u.s. media, u.s. congress, and i think the worst culprit has been the federal judiciary, which really is the most inexcusable because it is supposed to be immunized from political pressures by life tenure which is a doubt in the constitution. -- which is laid out in the constitution. their duty is to respect
people's rights and matter how unpopular it may be. in the most extreme and radical forms of unconstitutional conduct. i think judge pauley's decision is typical. it begins by exploiting 9/11 to justify anything the government wants to do. the reason judge leon's decision grabbed so much attention is because it was such an amazing aberration. it was one of the few ringing endorsements the hostages and still matters and the war on terrorism. we will see have -- how these conflicts play out in the appellate courts. >> former nsa director general michael hayden addressed the issue of telephone surveillance in his interview with cbs "face the nation" on sunday. >> millions, billions of phone records a day are acquired by the national security agency, but what follows is really important. what happens to that data, how often it is touched. the truth is, it is touched 200
to 300 times per year and only based upon a reasonable are to the suspicion that that number is affiliated with terrorism. >> jameel jaffer, your response? >> i don't think that should be reassuring to anyone. the fact is this information rest in an nsa database. it is already being used pretty extensively -- 300 times in a single year that the nsa has conducted what it calls queries into this data. every time it conducts one of those queries, it looks at not just the information relating to the person who is suspected of being a terrorist, but the information of everybody who has been in contact with that person, everybody who has been in contact with those people, and everybody who's been in contact with those people. it is millions of people every single time. that assumes the nsa is using the data only in the way that it says it is using the data him and that it will use the data only in the way it says it will use the data.
we know from past experience, we know from history that that is not going to be the case. we know this information will be abused, if not by this administration, then the next. at some point, the president will see it as politically valuable to have the information in this database and use it in ways it wasn't meant to be used. >> i would like to go to a clip from -- at the time, senator joe biden -- in 2006. he criticized a similar call record collection program revealed under the bush administration. he also was speaking on cbs. >> i don't have to listen to your phone calls to know what you're doing. if i know every single phone call you made, i can determine every single person you talk to, get a pattern about your life that is very, very intrusive. the real question is, what do they do with this information they collect that does not have anything to do with al qaeda? >> glenn greenwald, your response? >> i think this underscores one of the most amazing things, amy.
when i began writing about politics in 2005, 2006, i focused on the nsa scandal at that time, which was the bush administration was spying on the telephone calls of americans without the warrants required by law. by far the biggest support i got from the worker was doing was from democrats and progressives and liberals. almost all unanimously were highly supportive of the work. democrats back then understood this serious dangers posed by mass surveillance and by even the collection of metadata. fast forward seven years later, when there's a democrat in office, and by far the biggest critics of the recording -- reporting we're doing, the most vehement defenders of the nsa or people like diane feinstein but also liberal and democratic already pundits and reporters and journalists all over the internet who have suddenly decided they're going to take it upon themselves to be great supporters of the nsa. polling data reflects massive changes in how democrats and progressives think about these
issues and the because there's a new president in office who belongs to their party. and the joe biden clip underscores how unprincipled and hackish that faction of the democratic party has become. changing what they think not on what they think but who it and power. >> and taking afforded 2013 to president obama -- taking afford to president obama and vice president biden now, their responses in dealing with the revelations around the nsa? >> what is clearly underway is the same thing we saw 1970s when the scandal over and concern over abuses, eavesdropping powers, was at least as great as what we have now if not greater. the idea was they needed a way to placate the public and say, don't worry, we're putting his grace safeguards on his power so you don't have to worry anymore about abuse. what they really did instead was create the symbolic gestures that really didn't change much of anything, but just maybe program were pretty and they
said they're going to create a court to oversee this and yet the court was created to be a court met in-- the secret. they installed the most lavish loyalist to the nsa as the committee chair to make sure those committees do nothing but holster and defend the intelligence community rather than ever checking them or exercising oversight. that is what the president is trying to do it is panel of hand-picked loyalists from a pretend there is reform going on yet most of those proposals that sound nice are actually going to achieve very little, if not make it worse from other than try to convince the public they need not worry. that is the explicit goal of this reform process, to make the public more culpable with these programs, not reform them. >> when we come back from break, we will particularly focus on the latest revelations in a piece that just came out from der spiegel about tao and find
out just what this is. people ordering online a computer or cell phone -- the computer being sent not to you directly, but due to her or making a detour to the nsa to put spyware in it and then you get it? just one of the revelations in this piece. we're talking with glenn greenwald who broke the story about edward snowden, previously a colonist for "the guardian." and jameel jaffer, the deputy legal director with the aclu. we are back in a moment. ♪ [music break]
new details about secretive hacking or secretive hacking unit inside the nsa called the office of tailored access operations, or tao. the unit was created in 1997 to hack of global communications traffic will stop still with us, jameel jaffer, deputy legal director of the aclu and glenn greenwald, the journalist who first broke the story about edward snowden. glenn, can you talk about the revelations in der spiegel? >> sure. i think everybody by now knows that the goal of the nsa really is the elimination of privacy worldwide -- not hyperbole, not metaphor, that is literally their goal. but the specifics are still really important to illustrate the scope and invasiveness and dangers presented by the secret
surveillance system. and whether -- what the der spiegel article details, one of the things the nsa is really adept at doing is implanting in various machines -- computers, laptops, even cell phones and the like -- malware. that is essentially a program that allows the nsa to own the machine. no matter how much encryption you use, no matter how much you safeguard your committee case and with passwords and other things, this malware allows the nsa to literally watch every keystroke you make to get screen captures of what it is you're doing to circumvent all forms of encryption and other barriers to your communications. one of the ways they're doing it is a intercept products in transit such as if you order a laptop or other forms of internet routers or servers and the like, they intercepted in transit, open the box, and plant the malware, factory seal it, then send it back to the user.
they also exploit weaknesses in google and youtube and yahoo! and other services as well an order to implant these devices. it is unclear to what extent, if at all, the copies even know about it let alone cooperate. but it is clear they have been able to compromise the physical machines them selves and it makes no difference what precautions you take in terms of safeguarding the sanctity of your online activity. >> just to be really specific, you order a computer and it is coming ups or fedex and they have it redirected to their own -- to the nsa and they put in the malware, the spyware, then send it on to you? >> correct. that is what the der spiegel report indicates based on the documents that they published. we have actually been working ourselves on certain stories that should be published soon interdictionilar
efforts. one thing that is so amazing about this is that the u.s. government has been the last three or four years vehemently warning the world that chinese technology companies are unsafe to purchase products from because they claim the chinese government interdict these topics and installs surveillance, backdoors, and other forms of malware onto the machinery so when you get them, immediately your privacy is compromised. they have actually driven chinese firms out of the u.s. market and elsewhere with these kinds of accusations -- commerce has convened committees to issue reports making these accusations about chinese companies, and at the same time, the nsa is doing what they're accusing the chinese companies of doing. are these warnings designed to steer people away from purchasing chinese products into the arms of the american industry so the nsa's ability to implant these devices becomes even greater since dad everybody is buying american products out
of fear that they can no longer buy chinese products because this will happen to them? >> the stories reported by jacob applebaum, laura poitras, and a group of der spiegel reporters. is this based, glenn greenwald, on edward snowden's revelations, the documents he got out and shared with you and laura poitras? >> der spiegel doesn't actually indicate the origin of the documents, sans going to go ahead and let them speak to that themselves. what i can tell you is there are documents in the archives that was provided to us by edward snowden that details similar row grams whether the specific documents that der spiegel published comes from them or different source is something i will let them address. >> talk about the beginning of this piece. in january 2010, numerous homeowners in san antonio, texas stood baffled in front of their closed garage doors.
take it from there. us?you still with lost glenn.just i will just read a little more until we reconnect. in january 2010, numerous homeowners in san antonio, texas stood baffled in front of their closed garage doors will stop they wanted to drive to work or head off to do their grocery shopping, but their garage door openers had gone dead. it left them stranded. no matter how many times he pressed the button, the doors didn't budge. the problem primarily affected residents in the western part of the city around military drive an interstate highway known as loop 410. in the u.s., a country of cars and commuters, the mysterious garage door problem quickly became an issue for local politicians. ultimately, doing as a bull government solved the riddle.
fault for the air lay with united states foreign group.gence officials at the agency were forced to admit that one of the nsa's radio antennas was broadcasting at the same frequency as the grudge door openers. embarrassed officials at the intelligence agency promised to resolve the issue as quickly as possible, and soon the doors began opening again. it was thanks to the garage for opener episode that texans learned just how far the nsa's work had encroached upon their daily lives. for quite some time now, the intelligence agency has maintained a branch with around 2000 employees at lackland air force base, also in san antonio. jameel jaffer, the significance of this and the legality of what is happening? >> i think what bothers me most about these programs is the bulk aspect or dragnet aspect of it.
when the nsa has good reason to believe probable cause that a specific arson is engaged in terrorism or something like that, it doesn't bother me that much the nsa is surveilling a person. that is their job. the problem with a lot of these programs is there not directed at people thought to be doing something wrong. they're not directed a suspected terrorist or even suspected criminals. these programs are directed at everybody. they're not directed at all, there'd indiscretion. when you think about what the constitution was meant to do, it was to ensure the government could not engage in surveillance without some reason. and all of this surveillance the nsa is engaged in essentially flips that on its head and collects information about everybody in the hope the surveillance will lead to suspicion about something. it is supposed to be doing it the other way around to starting with suspicion and then going to search. it is starting with searching going to suspicion. i think that is really dangerous
and exactly what the fourth the memo was intended to prohibit. >> when it came to the judge's decision, you have the judge that says this is constitutional but it followed the judge saying this is orwellian and likely unconstitutional. why the difference of opinion between these two judges? >> i think one got it right and one got it wrong. judge pauley was not very skeptical for the government's claims. the government make claims about the effectiveness of the program , the necessity of the program, claims that were contradicted by information already the public record. information put into the public record by government officials. judge pauley nonetheless defer to the claims in court, which is a disappointment to us. >> let's get back to glenn greenwald. i just read the first couple of paragraphs about the garage doors that would not open because the garage door openers were actually operating on the same frequency of the nsa, which was really fast expanding in san
antonio at the time. could you take it from there? the significance of this and this particular unit and how significant it is? >> one thing i think that it underscores is this was in the community that had no idea there was this gargantuan nsa hacking unit that had sprawled out in its community. of how much power they're doing that they simply shut down the electric devices of an entire commodity that did not know they were even there. the tao is really remarkable because the government -- the u.s. government has been warning for many years now about the dangers of hackers. both state hackers as well as state-sponsored hackers from china and from iran and from elsewhere. and the reality is that nobody is as advanced or as prolific when it comes to hacking into
computer networks and computer systems than the nsa. that isasically a unit designed to cultivate the most advanced hacking operations and skills of any unit, of any entity on the earth. yet again what we find is exactly the dangers about which the u.s. government is shrilly warning when it comes to other people, they're actually doing themselves to much greater and more menacing degree than anybody else is. that is the significance of this particular unit inside of the nsa is they do all of the most fallacious hacking techniques that hackers who have been prosecuted by this very same government to and much, much more. tamale,about white glenn greenwald. -- one of the good things about this particular story is it was -- the lead rider was jacob applebaum.
he is one of the world's leading experts when it comes to computer programs. he is the developer of the tor project, which is designed to safeguard anonymity and make it impossible for hostile states to be able to trace where people are. one of the things he did was take some technical documents and translated it into a way the public should be under to understand it. several of these programs, including white tamale, are about insertions of malware into various forms of electronics. he gave a speech this morning and essentially what he said was with these programs, the government is able to literally and troll human beings through their machine -- control human beings through control of their machines. we hear about the types of people whom they are targeting that are very specific and
discriminating, yet what several of these programs are that are revealed by der spiegel are highly sophisticated means for collecting everything that a user does and implicates the people with whom they're communicating in a whole variety of other types of online negativity in which they are engaging. >> i want to turn to computer researcher jacob appel baume who cowrote the piece for der spiegel who is speaking in germany at this conference, the chaos communications congress. >> basically, their goal is to have total surveillance of everything they're interested in so there really is no boundary to what they want to do and there's a list sometimes a boundary of what they are funded to be able to do and the amount of things are able to do at scale. they seem to just do those things without thinking too much about it and there are specific tactical things where they have to target a group or individual and those things seem limited by budget or simply by their time. as we have released today on der
spiegel's website, which should be live for everyone here, we actually show whole bunch of details about their budgets as well as the individuals involved with the nsa and the tailored access operations group in terms of numbers. it should give you a rough idea showing there was a small period of time in which the internet was really free and we did not have people from u.s. military watching over it and exploiting everyone on it, and now we see every year the number of people who are hired to break into people's computers as part of grand operations, those people are growing day by day. >> also speaking in germany at the casket indication congress this week and was wikileaks sarah harrison who accompanied edward snowden to russia and spent four months with him. she spoke after receiving a long standing ovation. >> my name is their harrison, as you all appear to know.
i'm a journalist working for wikileaks. [indiscernible] i do not return to my home. the cake government has chosen to define disclosing documents the intent to influence government behavior as [indiscernible] >> that was there harrison. glenn greenwald, talk more about her significance. she is not talked about as much, but she said at this conference that after leaving russia, she is now in germany and cannot go back to england where she lives for fear of being arrested. >> there are a lot of people who debate wikileaks and the like but there is no question that wikileaks deserves a huge amount
of credit for the work they did in saving edward snowden from what probably would have been certainly, ultimate attention by the authority and hong kong in the next edition or handing over to the united states, which would have put them in prison and silenced him pending a trial and almost certainly convicted him given the impossible odds that prevent whistleblowers were charged with espionage act violations from raising the defense that what they did was justified and there were blowing the whistle and not engaged in espionage. the person that wikileaks to sacrifice the most and was the most aerobic was sarah harrison who flew to hong kong, traveled with snowden to moscow and stayed with him for several months while he was in the airport at first and then getting acclimated to his life in moscow. not only did she give up those months of her life and put yourself at risk, she is now in danger of not being able to mesh you said in that clip, to return to her own home. the terrorism investigation she
was referencing is the one that has arisen in the cake government is conducting in its detention of my partner dave and ran at heathrow airport. we challenge that in court and the response the u.k. government has as they are inducting -- conducting an investigation under terrorism law under him and laura poitras and myself and anyone at "the guardian" in the reporting of these stories and the means everyone implicated in the reporting of the story, which has caused a global debate around the world and worldwide reform, is now a suspect in a terrorism investigation. that is how radical and extreme the u.k. government working in partnership with the u.s. government has become in every we are spoken to says you should not yourself at risk. as a british citizen, she is to not return to the u.k. for the crime of working in a journalistic capacity to bring the stories to the world.
and of all the criminals or criminality we have exposed in this case, i think the most egregious is the attempt by the u.s. in the u.k. government to turn journalism not only to a and espionage, but into actual terrorism. it is a real menace to a free press and in an ongoing way. >> glenn, you address the chaos congress in germany, but you did not go. you did it by skype. or by some form of video communication. do you feel you can travel to europe or to the united states? risk foris clearly a my doing either. i would feel completely free to travel to a country like germany, but the problem is germany is in the eu along with the u.k. and there are all kinds of laws and other conventions that govern the ability of the u.k. to claim if somebody has engaged in terrorism and then
force other eu states to turn them over. i have very good lawyers who are working to resolve all of these various risks, but every lawyer i've spoken to in the past four months has said you would be well advised not to travel until the legal issues are resolved. laura poitras has received the same advice. sarah harrison has gone the same advice. there are very genuine legal threats that are deliberately being hung over the heads of those of us who have worked on the stories and are continuing to work on the stories in an attempt to intimidate us and the terror us from continuing to report. it is not going to work. we're going to work as aggressively as of these reports -- threats to exist, but their mere existence provides imitations not only on us, but other journalists to now and in the future will work on similar stories. it is designed to create a climate of fear to squash a free press. >> former nsa director general
michael hayden appeared on "face the nation" and accused edward snowden of being a traitor. >> i used to say he was a defector. and there is a history of defection to moscow, and he seems to be part of that string. i now kind of drifting in the direction a perhaps more harsh language -- >> such as? >> such as traitor. >> based on what? >> in two weeks in open waters the german and brazilian government, his offer to reveal more american secrets to those governments in return for something. and in return was for asylum. i think there's an english word that describes selling american secrets to another government, and i think that is treason. >> he also responded to questions about the impact of snowden's revelations on the nsa. is the nsa stronger or weaker as a result of edwards knows disclosures? >> infinitely weaker. but infinitely? >> this is the most hemorrhaging
-- look, we have other spies. we can talk about them, but their damage them as bad as it was very limited. even though both of those cases lives were lost. but there were specific sources. there's a reason we call these weeks. if you extend the metaphor, hansen and aames, you could argue that was a cup of water or a bucket of water that was leaked. was snowden is reviewing -- revealing is the limit. he is revealing how we acquired this information. it will take years, if not decades, for us to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosure. >> glenn greenwald, i want you to respond to that and also the snowdenequest by edward to get asylum in the country where you now live, in brazil, and the significance of the debate -- police reported by
"the new york times" that is going on within the intelligence community and the white house about whether edward snowden should possibly be granted amnesty. >> first of all, michael hayden in that clip just told outright lies, as he so often does. anyone who has any doubts should read the letter that edward snowden wrote to the people of brazil as well as the people of germany, and compared to what michael hayden lied and said he actually did. he never offered to give documents in exchange for asylum or anything like that. he did the opposite. he has repeatedly been pursued by officials of both countries asking him to participate in the criminal investigations they're conducting about spying under citizens -- on their citizens. he essentially wrote a letter that said, unfortunately, i'm not able to help even though i would like to in a legal and appropriate way because i don't actually have permitted asylum anywhere in the u.s. government is still trying to imprison me. and until my situation is more secure, i am not able to help. he was explaining why he can't
and won't participate in those investigations, not offering anything in return for asylum or anything else like that. secondly, let me make this point about the complete ignorance of michael hayden. he said in that clip that edward snowden should now be deemed to be a traitor because he is engaged in treason by virtue of having offered asylum in exchange for documents. let's assume you did that. go on the what the constitution defines treason as being. it is very clear and says treason is the given of aid and comfort to the enemies of the united states. the enemies of the united states. even if you want to believe michael hayden's lie that snowden offered that information to germany and brazil in exchange for asylum, are germany and brazil in a maze of the united states? -- even treason avian if you believe the lies of michael hayden. third, the real question is, why do we even have to have the discussion of edward snowden
amnesty? these documents to foreign adversary governments as he could have and live the rest of his life extremely rich. of theght them to some leading journalistic organizations in the world and asked they be published only in hisy that will inform fellow citizens and the world about what is being done to their privacy. whistleblowing behavior. why are whistleblowers in the was either prosecuted tentatively or extremely or leave the country or live in a cage the rest of their life? all of this talk about amnesty for edward snowden and it is so important rule of law be applied to him, it is quite amazing. here is michael hayden who oversaw the illegal warrantless you shopping program implemented under the bush administration, oversaw torture and rendition as the head of the cia. james clapper lied to the face of congress.
these are felonies at least as bad and i would say much worse than anything edward snowden is accused of doing and yet they are not prosecuted. they are allowed to appear on television. washington constantly gives amnesty to its highest officials even when they commit the most egregious crimes and yet the idea of amnesty for a whistleblower is considered radical and extreme. that is why a hardened felon like michael hayden is free to walk around on the street and greeted on american media outlets as if he is some wisdom- drenched altar statesman, then what he is, a common criminal. >> jameel jaffer, the ace ou is acelegal advisor for -- the ou is a legal advisor for edward snowden. what is going on behind the scenes right now? >> i think edward snowden has been very direct entry open about his intentions and what he
wants in u.s. government. you would like to come back to the united states. he doesn't want to come back under the conditions being offered right now. i think michael hayden's statements were irresponsible and outrageous. the idea that edward snowden has damaged national security is ludicrous. it is not that edward snowden has exposed to secrets of the nsa, he is exposed the lies of the nsa. the director of national intelligence james clapper testified to congress the nsa was in collecting information about millions of americans and it turns out they were. the solicitor general told the supreme court the nsa was providing notice to criminal defendants who had been surveilled. it turns out they weren't. it is all of these misrepresentations about the nsa's activities that edward snowden has exposed and i think that is a great public service and a travesty that edward snowden is in russia. we are hopeful he will be able to return to the united states -- not to face criminal charges, but rather with the kind of amnesty that he deserves.
>> i want to thank you both for being with us. jameel jaffer from the aclu and glenn greenwald who broke the story about edward snowden, speaking to us from brazil. now creating a new media venture with laura poitras and jeremy scahill and ebay's founder. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. way, to our new year's day show. we will go through the major stories of 2013 -- of course, the story about the nsa is top of the list. we will be back in a minute. ♪ [music break]
>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. on saturday, 1.3 million americans lost their last lifeline from the federal government -- an emergency unemployment insurance program. although long-term unemployment is still at its highest level since world war ii, congress failed to renew the program in the budget deal that passed just days before adjourning for winter recess. the program provided up to 47 weeks of supplemental
unemployment insurance payments to jobless people looking for work. now, just a quarter of unemployed americans will receive jobless benefits -- the smallest proportion and half a century. along the program to sunset is expected to have widescale ramifications for the economy at large, acting job growth by around 300,000 positions next year, and pushing hundreds of thousands of households to the brink of poverty. for more we're joined by imara jones, the economic just as conservator for colorlines.com, served in the clinton white house where he worked on international trade policy. he recently wrote an article called, "the grinches who stole jobless benefits." imara jones, welcome back to democracy now! talk about this in this holiday season what has taken place. >> in any season it is a dreadful thing to happen, but even more so now. the problem is that only is it the holiday season, but this is the wrong thing to happen at the wrong time for our economy. for all of the reasons you just laid out.
the problem is that long-term unemployment is still a problem and in a year in which there's a lot of talk about the need to focus on equity and inequities in our economy, the loss of over one million benefits for the people just days ago and then up to 5 million in the year ahead is going to make that infinitely harder. >> how did this happen and how did -- the democrats criticize this, but they sign on to the deal. >> i think two things happen. the first is this is not a surprise given where the gop has in 2010.e power they made a lot of statements and they believe right and truly that it is not the role of the government to be involved in helping people who are the most former bull. that is just a declaration they have made and that is been a part of their actions. i think what happened with the democratic already is the probably was a since this wasn't going to happen, that there had always been some relationship
around unemployment benefits, but there was always a way found it was probably a bridge too far for john boehner given that he does cut a deal with the democrats on the budget at large and so something us had to be given up. senatoring on fox news, rand paul said long-term jobless benefits can create a group of perpetually unemployed people. >> i do support unemployment benefits for the 26 weeks they're paid for. if you extend it beyond that, you do a disservice to these workers. there was a study that came out a few weeks ago that said if you have a worker that is been unemployed for four weeks and one that is on 99 weeks, which would you hire? every employer, nearly 100%, said it will always hire the person has been out of work for weeks. when you allow people to be on unemployment insurance for 99 weeks, you're causing them to become part of this perpetual unemployed group in our economy. it seems -- while good, it actually does a disservice to the people you're
trying to help. >> imara jones, respond. >> that is just not true. a study says unemployment benefits actually had very little impact on whether or not people remain jobless. it only extends joblessness by up to seven days. what it does do is it allows people to be able to sustain themselves while looking for work. there's no impact on jobless benefits on jobless benefits. the second thing is jobless benefits are stimulative to the economy. they are actually -- for every one dollar we provide to someone, it yields $1.60 in economic activity. that is why the loss of these benefits is going to rob our economy of $41 billion at a time when the economy is still very schizophrenic. they can't figure out whether it is going to recover or how it is when a recover. the problem with selective studies like senator paul sort of pulled out is it is not about
anindividual, it is assessment. >> in the past, the unemployment benefits have been extended. will it happen this time? >> it is hard to see how it is going to happen. >> who are the unemployed in this country? >> they are disproportionately people of color. they are across all educational areas and backgrounds. age-wise, pretty wide standard age distribution. the longest of the long-term unemployed are actually older. what is going to happen is a lot of these people are either going to be pushed to poverty, going to drop out of the job force and extend that problem, or they're going to file and go on social security early so they're going to actually push up the cost the gop says it wants to hold down. it doesn't make sense in many ways. >> thank you for being with us, imara jones.