tv Democracy Now LINKTV March 29, 2022 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
03/29/22 03/29/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york this is democracy now! >> let's be clear. the solution to this humanitarian tragedy is not humanitarian, it is political. therefore, i am appealing for an immediate cease-fire to allow for progress in a serious political negotiations aiming at reaching a peace agreement based
on the principles of the united nations charter. amy: as u.n. secretary general antonio guterres calls for a humanitarian ceasefire in ukraine, negotiators from russia and ukraine are holding peace talks in turkey. we will go to ukraine to speak with a reporter at the guardian who just left the bombed-out city of kharkiv. then as a federal judge says donald trump and his lawyer "likely" committed multiple felonies in their bid to block joe biden's election victory, we we will also look at a new frontline/propublica documentary "plot to overturn the election." >> in the coming weeks, i was focused on the violence in the streets. i didn't realize that something far more consequential was happening in the hotel suites around me. a plot to undermine and overturn the election. plus, calls are growing for supreme court justice clarence thomas to be impeached after the
release of messages showing his feinni thos pushing r trump's chief of staff mark meadows to overturn the election. all that a me, cin. welcome to democcy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodma negotiators from ukraine and russia have opened their first direct peace talks anymore than two weeks. ahead of today's negotiations in istanbul turkey, floing mayor zelens said ukraine is unwilling to compromise on its sovereignty and territorial integrity b is open to discussing neutrality and a prohibition on ukraine joining nato. on monday, "wall street journal" and belly cap reported the russian millionaire roman abramovich and ukrainian peace negotiators suffered symptoms of suspected poisoning after a meeting in kyiv earlier in
march. the symptoms reportedly include d eyes and peeling skin on their faces. "the wall street journal" cited in officials who suspected they were poisoned by hard-liners in moscow seeking to sabotage peace talks but others have expressed skepticism. the bbc reports a senior ukrainian official said members of the ukrainian delegation were fine and tt one of them had called reports of poisoning false. roman abramovich is there as part of the latest round of peace talks. ahead of the negotiations, ukraine's foreign minister warned his delegation to be cautious. >> i advise anyone going for negotiations with the russian federation not to eat or drink anything, preferably avoid tohing any service. amy: ukraine's military says it has recaptured several towns from russian forces, including a
strategic suburb outside capital kyiv. meanwhile, the mayor of mariupol said nearly 5000 residents, including 210 children come have died in russia's assault on the besieged city, which was home to nearly half a million people before russia's invasion. on monday, the united nations secretary general called for an immediate cease-fire. >> a cessation of hostilities will allow him an entry aid to be delivered and enable civilians to move around safely. it will save lives, prevent suffering, and protect civilians. amy: in russia, the prominent inng from a russ last year, the paper's editor-in-chief dmitry muratov won a nobel peace prize for his work reporting in the face of government repression and censorship.
muratov recently put his nobel medal up for auction, with proceeds of its sale set to support ukrainian refugees. also on monday, the kremlin ordered russian media outlets not to publish a rare interview with ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky by russian journalists, including dmitry murav. it's believed at least 150 journalists have left russia since the start of the ukraine invasion last month. president biden said monday he was expressing his moral outrage and not official u.s. policy when he suggested last weekend that vladimir putin should be removed as president of russia. biden's off-the-cuff remark during a visit to poland on saturday threatened a rupture in diplomatic ties between the u.s. and russia. pres. biden: i want to make it clear, i wasn't then nor am i now articulating a policy change. i was expressing moral outrage that i feeand i make no --
>> personal feelings? pres. biden: my personal feelings. amy: on monday, the pentagon said it was sending six navy attack planes and 240 more troops to germany to bolster nato's military buildup during the war in ukraine. the white house has sent congress a $5.8 trillion budget request that would raise taxes on billionaires and corporations, while massively boosting funding for the pentagon and the police. biden's budget proposal does not include items from his "build back better" plan, which failed to pass the narrowly-divided senate over objections from conservative democrats kirsten sinema and joe manchin. the budget proposes more than $30 billion in grants to state and local police departments. it would also boost military spending by about 10% to a record-shattering $813 billion, eclipsing even former president trump's pentagon budget requests.
vermont independent senator bernie sanders responded in a statement -- "at a time when we are already spending more on the military than the next 11 countries combined, no, we do not need a massive increase in the defense budget." a federal judge ruled monday that former president trump and his lawyer "likely" committed multiple felonies in their bid to block certification of joe biden's electoral college victory in the 2020 election. in a 44-page ruling, u.s. district court judge david carter ordered trump legal adviser john eastman to turn over hundreds of emails to the house committee investigating the january 6 attack on the capitol. judge carter determined that trump and eastman launched a campaign to overturn a democratic election that was unprecedented in u.s. history, calling it a "coup in search of a legal theory." meanwhile, "the washington post" reporting records released of the january 6 committee shows a
gap of more than seven hours in president trump's phone logs as the capitol was being assaulted. the post reports the is investigating whether trump communicated that day through back channels. phones have aids or personal disposable phones known as burner phones. also on monday, the house january 6 committee voted unanimously to recommend criminal contempt of congress charges againsformer white house aides peter navarro and dan scavino after they became the latest former trump administration officials to refuse to cooperate with congressional subpoenas. in afghanistan, the taliban has banned several international media outlets, including voice of america, the bbc, and germany's dw. this comes as dozens of women students and teachers held a peaceful protest in front of afghanistan's education ministry in kabul over the weekend in response to the taliban's order to shut down secondary schools for girls. this is a school teacher.wier, e
motives of terrorists. amy: the move prompted u.s. officials to cancel talks with taliban leaders in doha friday to address key economic issues impacting afghanistan. in india, hundreds of thousands of workers have gone on strike to protest prime minister narendra modi's neoliberal econom policies. two-day shdown ban monday, called on by dozens of labor unions from the private and public secrs. government workers, coal and copper miners, steel, oil, and health wkers are ang those who've joined e rike as anger mots over ss unemployment, rising food and fuel prices, worsening poverty and lack of access to health care andducation in spain, hundreds of protesters
gathered outside the foreign affairs ministry in madrid saturday to protest the spanish government's recent announcement it no longer supports self-determination for the moroccan-occupied western sahara. >> all soccer lares in spain have come here to demonstrate against the decision taken by pedro sanchez, which is once again betraying the sahara. we feel betrayed because he said he would give sovereignty over the territory to the moroccans and we do not feel equal to them. we are the ones who decide our rights. amy: u.s. secretary of state antony blinken arrived in morocco monday where he is meeting with the kingdoms foreign minister. in mexico, 20 people were killed sunday when gunmen opened fire on a crowd watching a cockfight in a small town in the western state of michoacán. police said they found more than 100 30-caliber shell casings at the crime scene. mexico's military has joined the search for the killers, but so far no arrests have been made.
last year, mexico filed a lawsuit in a u.s. federal court seeking to hold 10 u.s.-based gun makers accountable for mexico's epidemic of gun violence. the complaint says more than half a million u.s.-made guns are smuggled to mexico each year. meanwhile, a new independent report into the 2014 disappearance of the 43 ayotzinapa students says mexico's navy and army officials had been surveilling the students and knew they were going to be kidnapped. the report also found officials hid evidence that could have helped locate the students. this is a member of the independent panel. >> it was known by the authorities what was happening at the time of the detention and subsequent disappearance of the students. amy: back in the united states, academy award winning actor will smith has issued an apology for slapping presenter chris rock at the academy awards sunday after rock joked about smith's wife jada pinkett smith being bald.
pinkett smith suffers from alopecia. in an instagram post, smith said his reaction was "unacceptable and inexcusable." smith continued -- "jokes at my expense are a part of the job, but a joke about jada's medical condition was too much for me to bear and i reacted emotionally. i am embarrassed and my actions were not indicative of the man i want to be. there is no place for violence in a world of love and kindness." the academy on monday condemned smith's actions and launched an inquiry into what happened. and in florida, republican governor ron desantis on monday signed a bill that prohibits discussis of sexuality and gender identity with students in kindergarten through third grade. desantis signed the bill known by critics as "don't say gay," despite widespread condemnation from teachers, students, and the lgbtq+ rights advocates who say the law will severely impact the mental health of children. >> i don't care what corporate medioutlets essay.
i don't care what hollywood says. i don't care what big corporations say. here i stand. i am n backing down. amy: in a statement, the group equality florida said -- "desantis has damaged our state's reputation as a welcoming and inclusive place for all families. this law will not stand. we will work to see it removed either by the courts as unconstitutional or repealed by the legislature." and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by my co-host juan gonzález in new brunswick, new jersey. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: the january 6 committee investigating the deadly attack on the capitol is reportedly deciding whether to interview ginni thomas, the republican activist and wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, about her efforts to overturn donald trump's 2020 election loss. the move comes after her texts
with trump's then-chief of staff mark meadows in the weeks following the election were made public last week in a washington post/cbs exposé. in a series of 29 text messages to meadows, ginni thomas urges him to take action to prevent a biden victory, citing conspiracy theories about a stolen election popularized by the far-right qanon movement. on november 10, after news outlets declared joe biden the winner, ginni thomas wrote to meadows -- "help this great president stand firm, mark!!! you are the leader, with him, who is standing for america's constitutional governance at the precipice. the majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist of our history." just months ago in january, the supreme court denied a request by trump to block the release of white house documents around january 6. in the 8-1 ruling, only one justice dissented -- clarence thomas.
calls are growing for justice thomas to be impeached after the release of the text messages. this comes as justice thomas participated remotely monday in arguments at the supreme court after he was hospitalized for nearly a week with an unspecified infection. for more, we are joined by ian millhiser, senior correspondent at vox who has long followed justice thomas. his new piece out today is headlined "clarence thomas's long fight against fair and democratic elections: like wife, like husband." he's the author of two books on the high court, "the agenda: how a republican supreme court is reshaping america" and "injustices: the supreme court's history of comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted." welcome back. if you can talk about the significance of what has been discovered about ginni thomas's text and the connection to her husband and the rules under the supreme court around partners, ruling on cases that involve
that may possibly involved their spouses. >> what we know is we know ginni thomas was very much a cheerleader and a cheerleader at the highest levels, she was texting the white use chieof staff about cheering on trump's efforts to overturn the election. we don't know yet give she was a co-conspirator. was she in the room with people like john easement, the strategy actually overturning the election, and the extent of her role could be revealed by various documents and various interviews of the january 6 committee conducting. you mentioned in the intro that the committee sought records from the white house. justice thomas tried to block their access to these records and we don't yet know wt is in those records. we do not know if they incriminate ginni thomas or reveal her to be a co-conspirator, we don't know her name imentioned at all. so if clarence thomas knew that
his wife was potentially implicated in this scandal, i think you should have recused himself from that case and recused himself from any future cases related to this investigation. when you are a judge, you can't sit on a case where your wife has an interest. juan: what are the conflict of interest requirements for justices of the supreme court? there has been an attempt in congress to tighten that but chief justice roberts has warned against congress attempting to control an equal branch of government in effect? >> that really two questions there. there is a statute that lays out -- sit on a case where the personality could be questioned and so forth. the issue is there is no enforceable ethics rules against supreme court of the united states, so there is a statute of what they're supposed to do and
the justices have said for really long time, oh, yeah, we are very, very careful about the ethics and so forth. but ultimately, it is up to each individual justice. this is the overching problem we are having with the supreme court right now is that his body gets out of line, when he gets overly partisan, when it starts ignoring the law, there really is not a good method to rein in a supreme court. there is impeachment, but impeachment takes 67 votes. they could not even successfully impeached donald trump after donald trump cheered on an attack on the capitol. i am pessimistic anything is going to happen to justice thomas. but again, if his wife has an interest in a case, that is the classic case of where you need to recuse. you cannot sit on a case that you have any interest in, you cannot sit on a case where your immediate family members have a direct interest. amy: and ian, isn't it true in
this case where clarence thomas was the only dissenter, he did not want to obligate donald trump to send over these documents? that is where the emails were discovered of his wife. i mean, there is a suggestion that he wanted to cover that up. >> so my understanding is that the text messages that we know about between ginni thomas and mark meadows came from a different tranche. i believe mark meadows voluntarily turned them over to the committee. he documents the committee sought from the trump white house, trump sued to try to block them, and i don't think we know what is inhose documents yet. i am sure the january 6 committee will get around to telling us very soon, but the question here is really, what did clarence thomas know and we did he know it? when did clarence thomas know that hisife potentially
implicated in the january 6 attack? and ihe knew that, did he obviously cannot sit on a case involving an investigation into the january 6 attack. juan: could you talk in general about justice thomas's record, this dissent in the case not necessarily out of the ordinary for how he has dealt with cases in the past. >> that's right. if i did not know about ginni thomas's involvement, still would not be surprised by the vote that clarence thomas cast in that one case because he consistently has been a strong opponent of voting rights laws. he has wanteto go much further. he is the support of a doctrine that would essentially allow state legislatures to ignore their state constitutions when passing election laws.
he is a huge proponent of freedom of the press. he wants to overturn a case called new york times v sullivan that protect supporters from malicious lib suits that seeks to bankrupt the outlets. he doesn't with the legislator should have the authority -- he thinks federal child labor laws are unconstitutional. he thinks the ban on whites only lunch counters is unconstitutional. he thinks minimum wage is unconstitutional. this is simply a man who does not believe in democracy. i am not at all surprised to learn he is married to a woman who apparently also does not have a very strong attachment to democracy. america finally, ian millhiser, the port that ginni thomas was at the january 6 protest, the significance of that? and also in these texts, calling for the hiring of sidney powell,
the conspiracy theorist lawyer who even herself in court defended herself by saying no one should have believed what i said. >> right. the fact she was recommending potential legal counsel certainly suggests she may have played a larger role. again, we need to see more information. i want to see what is in the new documents. there are many people who attended the rally on the capitol grass, which is lawful, you are allowed to rally on the capitol grass, and did not invade the capitol. we do not yet know she committed that particular crime, but again, what we need is more information. we don't know yet if ginni thomas has done anything criminal. we don't even know whether she was involved in any of the planning. what we do know so far is that this wife of the supreme court justice was a cheerleader of this coup attempt. amy: ian millhiser, thank you for being with us, senior
amy: this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. a federal judge ruled monday that former president trump and his lawyer "likely" committed multiple felonies in their bid to block certification of joe biden's electoral college victory in 2020. u.s. district court judge david carter ordered trump legal adviser john eastman to turn over hundreds of emails to the house committee investigating the january 6 attack after determining trump and eastman launched a campaign to overturn a democratic election, calling it a "coup in search of a legal theory." also on monday, the house
january 6 committee voted unanimously to recommend criminal contempof congress charges against former white house aides peter navarro and dan scavino after they became the latest former trump administration officials to refuse to cooperate with congressional subpoenas. meanwhile, as we just reported, the january 6 committee may seek to interview ginni thomas, the republican activist mi5 supreme justice clarence thomas, about her efforts to overturn donald trump's 2020 election loss. how these lies about election fraud made their way to the center of american politics are the focus of a new documentary by frontline and propublica premiering tonight on pbs called "plot to overturn the election." in a minute, we will be joined by a.c. thompson. reporter a.c. thompson. this is a clip. >> election permeated with fraud is not an election. we all know that biden did not get 80 million votes. >> after months of reporting, i
have ended up in phoenix, arizona. >> we already have a president and his name is donald trump. >> it has been more than a year since donald trump was defeated. >> we will come if i have anything to say about it, decertify the november 2020 presidential election. >> if you don't think fraud exist in the election, you're either stupid or you're just not that bright. >> but across the country, millions of americans continue to believe that the election was stolen from him. i am here to talk to a man who's a big part of the reason why. >> we are excited to hear you. >> thank you so much for what you're doing. >> it is an honor. >> patrick byrne is a former ceo who spent millions of dollars
casting doubt on joe biden selection. cooks when i go on the stage come to would be a good shot to come up behind me and film that because the whole crowd -- >> patrick feel the burn! >> part of a right-wing movement spreading the ad yet the 2020 election was stolen from trump. >> overwhelming evidence it happened november 2020, the election w rigged. we are n at the point -- >> the movement is trying to gain political power and change the way elections are run. i am here because i want to understand the stolen election myth. where did it come from? who was behind it? how is the ongoing battle over the last election threatening the next one?
>> the numbers just came i from but carolina. too early to call that our first numbers as the polls close -- >> election night, november 3, 2020. >> we are still early in this night. >> i was in washington covering the activists mobilizing for trump. >> let's take a look. >> trump had long claimed the vote would be marred by fraud. as the results rolled in that night, he alleged they were right. pres. trump: this is a fraud on the american public. this is an embarrassment to our country. >> usa! usa! >> in the coming weeks, i was focused on the violence in the streets. i did not realize that something
far more consequential was happening in the hotel suites around me. a plot to undermine and overturn the election. amy: an excerpt from "plot to overturn the election." it is a new investigative collaboration by frontline and propublica that premieres tonight on pbs. for more, we're joined by a.c. thompson. he has long covered the rise of right-wing extremist and white supremacist groups for years. thank you so much for being back on with us. if you can talk about the premise of what you're looking at here in your latest documentary? >> obviously, the person that many of the stolen election theories go back to is donald trump. he is sort of the patient zero, the originator. but there are small groups of people that were all around him that built sort of the mythology
around, the narratives around it that put meat on the bones. we look at one of those groups that was really instrumental in sort of taking trump's idea and building it into something that had life, that went beyond a single sentence. there was fraud, there was vote rigging. and that group consisted of people including former general michael flynn, the disgraced former national security advisor. it included patrick byrne, former ceo of overstock.com. lynwood and sidney powell, the attorneys. and a small company out of texas called allied security operations group. many of these people are former military, many of these people have a background in business. and people like byrne funded this operation to sort of develop a narrative that could sway the courts and could sway the public.
juan: you talk about a gathering that occurred at a plantation in south carolina. could you say more about that? what was this plantation? who owned it? who attended? >> so a lot of this activity comes out of a plantation in rural south carolina owned by a conservative paternity lynn would who was one of the attorneys involved in some of the lawsuits filed to overturn the election. there was a group of cyber experts, other litter girders -- litigators who converged on the plantation in the last weeks of november and the early december. basically, they network with folks all across the country to sort of gather information, collated come and go out and execute a rategy. their strategy was we're going
to litigate, work wit -- we're going to get access to voting machines and see what is in there and prove the fraud. amy: let's go to that clip in "plot to overturn the election." >> i reach outo my colleague doug who is part of a team of propublica reporters investigating election fraud claims. he tells me that to really understand the report, it helps to look at what happened a few weeks after the election. that is when a group of trump reporters gathered at this plantation in south carolina, owned by a lawyer named lynn wood. we had a phone call and you said i'm looking at stuff that happened on lynn wood's plantation. >> after the of them are third election met many of these people were convinced there's no way trump could lose, there has to he been fraud.
they started a process of trying to prove it. the plantation became sort of headquarters in which a lot of them gathered, synthesized a lot of the information that was pouring across the nation, and decided how to act on it. >> this point, mike flynn has come in to the plantation. among the people the was general michael flynn, trump's former national security advisor who had resigned and pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi. docunts doug obtained show th flynn worked with a small group of lawyers in cyber people at the plantation and that president trump spoken the phone to lawyers there at least once. some of the people there have been coordinating remotely with the dallas firm that wrote the report. what evidence did you gather to let you know this is what happened at the plantation? >> we got well over 1000 emails, hundreds of text messages of what was happening on the plantation.
it was almost like finding a key to understanding why much of the country believes that the election was stolen. >> can you walk me through it? >> this set of papers basically shows a set of emails that show how they crafted one of the lawsuits in order to try to get access to the dominion machine. >> on november 17, written "this is our best first list for the equipment list that need to be included on the injunction list. he is saying, this is what we think the is that we need for the lawsuits we are going to do. it lists the actual things they feel they would need to prove the fraud. what are the pieces -- >> talking about voting equipment. >> right. going to be used in lawsuits all across the country. have you ever seen this? >> no. >> doug says they'd carrieout
a multipart efrt to challenge the election results. lawsuits, public persuasion, and getting their hands on voting machines, and opening them up to scrutiny. >> on thanksgiving day, while many of these people were eating turkey together, paul went out to the county clerks in michigan and there were basically told, tomorrow it is going to be a group that is coming up and you should let this group access machines. please, let them see it. >> doug tells me it is not clear exactly who made the calls, but the next day, the private jet arrived in michigan. >> are hoping to find evidence of the stolen election. what they found was nothing. what they found was a bunch of computer logs which they did not know how to read. they produced along report which
was deeply riddled with errors, which multiple experts would find to be utterly bunk. at this sort of veneer of technical letimacy they would bring to this report would mean it would spread very wide and go viral in certain ways and create a pillar of the election fraudmyth. juan: a.c. thompson, i want to comment on especially the role of michael flynn and all of this . speaking of this issue of maintaining the idea of fraud, this has continued to this day. just this week, received and i'm sure many other journalists received in their inbox, reports supposedly peer-reviewed analyses of votes in particular states claiming there were inconsistencies in a number of votes that clearly demonstrated there was fraud in the 2020 election. >> yeah, the thing i think that
people don't understand -- and this was the thing that was most striking to me -- is m the stolen electionyth is animating the republican base to this day. trump has tapped dozens of candidates who are proponents of this myth were running for election in the midterms. whether it is governor, sec. of state, whether it is state legislature. when you go to trump rallies, when you go to these events, people do not believe that joe biden is the legitimate president of this country. they believe there has been an historic fraud that deprived trump of his right to rule this country. they believe democracy has been destroyed. so we're living in a very perilous time. january 6 did not change the energy around this issue. amy: i want to go to the last clip we have, republican efforts to overturn biden's election victory in arizona. this is the excerpt of "plot to overturn the election." >> i go see bill gates, member
of maricopa board of supervisors and lifelong republican. gates and his colleagues commissioned a 93 page analysis of the audit. >> this audit is a sham. they are sending out misinformation, half-truths, and that is being seized upon by the president and others to perpetuate the big lie. >> gaetz and other supervisors oppod the aut from the start. republicans in the state senate threatened to hold him in contempt and arrest them, and protesters erected a guillotine for them in front of the state capital. gates even received a voicemail from trump's attorney rudy giuliani. >> bill, it is rudy giuliani. if you get a chance, would you give me a call? i have a few things to talk over with you. maybe we can get this thing
fixed up. i think it is a shame republicans sort of are put in the situation. i think there may be a nice way to resolve it for everybody. give me a call, bill. i am on this number anytime. ok? take care. i. >> when he says we are republicans in this together, what you take that to mean? >> i think they believed they can pick off elections officials, republicans who are concerned about their future political prospects and work with these folks to overturn an election, which is despicable. i think every elected official in the republican party who remains silent is aiding and abetting this. they all know this is wrong. they tell me that, but then they are silent. >> what happens to this country is forward nobody has faith in our election? >> that is the beginning of the end of this country when that happens. that is the beginning of the end
of this democracy. amy: that is bill gates of the maricopa county supervisors from the documentary step as we rape wrap up, this takes us to an arizona state representative that you talk about who is running for arizona secretary of state, the guy who runs the elections. >> yeah, and he is a guy who's been a memr of the oh keepers militia group, a guy who suggested that january 6 was an empty for plot, a false flag. he was present at the rally on january 6. he is a guy thatpreads wild, wild, wild conspiracy theories. and it is entirely possible he will be the nenext secretary of state for the state. he once no voting machines, all paper ballots, one day of voting, and that's it. it is really a move back to the
past, to the pre-technological era. juan: a.c. thompson, what is your sense of the impact of this continuing lie of the stolen election will have in the 2022 midterm elections and even more important, in the presidential election? >> we're going to have to gauge this. are they winning the primaries? that is going to give us a real sense of what direction this country is headed. in states like arizona, we may see a lot of these trump conspiracy theory candidates win. amy: we want to thank you for being with us. a.c. thompson, staff reporter with propublica who has covered the rise of right-wing extremist and white supremacist groups for years. he is the correspondent for pbs frontline. the new documentary "plot to
""today the philharmonic perform for the first time since the invasion with refugees from across ukraine joining the orchestra." it was streamed online as it is now a warehouse for medical supplies that go to hospitals. like food, music to nurse the soul. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. ukrainian and russian officials have begun a new round of peace talks in istanbul turkey. the turkish president tayyip erdogan spoke before the negotiations began. >> achieving a cease fire of
peace as soon as possible as to the benefit of everyone. we have now entered if you can work concrete results need to be obtained from talks. amy: u.n. secretary general antonio gutteres has also called for a humanitarian ceasefire to end the war which began when russia invaded ukraine 34 days ago. >> let's be clear. the solution to these humanitarian tragedy is not humanitarian, it is political. i am therefore appealing for an immediate humanitarian cease-fire to allow for progress in series political negotiations aiming at reaching a peace agreement based on the principles of the united nations charter. amy: and assign a possible progress, russia's deputy defense minister said today russia would "fundamentally, military operations near kyiv." to look mark russia's war in ukraine, we're joined by emma
graham-harrison, an international affairs correspondent for the guardian. kharkiv has been devastated by weeks of russian attacks. welcome to democracy now! can you begin by just taking us to kharkiv and what you experienced, you spoke to? >> thank you for having me on the show. perhaps we could start with the drive to kharkiv. as you said, it is the second-biggest city in ukraine and the road up there is a road you would expect. a hugeighway, sort of multiple lanes in other directions. almost completely empty because the city itself has become so dangous -- it is not technically under siege, but we spoke to the governor and several people from kharkiv told us they just cannot get drivers wiing to bng up food and other supplies. [indiscernible] the attacks on the city are so
intensive that people don't want to risk going up there. you drive up this empty road and you go into the city -- the russian troops are focused on the north and east. we were driving from the south try not to cross the front lines. as you go toward the center, you start seeing the impact of this brutal, brutal assault. obviously, the worst hit city is mariupol. partly devastated. kharkiv is probably among those that are competing for the horrible title of been the second-most bombed. sort of announced the assault on khaki by sending a missile into city hall which has been completely hollowed out. firemen are trying to clear the wreckage, make what is left of the building s. they have already pulled 30 bodies from the wreckage. they fear there are many more people there. as you drive through town, you see -- using images from
particulate breads who have seen world war ii, reminiscent of that. it will be a whole house missing punched out by a bomb. the apartment building open to the sky. that is just in the center. as you go toward the outskirts where the fighting is most intense, there's hardly a building that has not been damaged by shelling. the shells are landing all the time. we were in a residential neighborhood where people are still living, a lot of people don't have bomb shelters have moved into the metro. some ironically built the soviet era to protect from attacks, now sheltering the people from attacks from moscow. just a couple of hours after we left this tiny residential neighborhood, a rocket slammed into people waiting for food aid. we went to a school that have
been hit. every building had either been damaged, windows missing. incredibly, there are still people living there. perhaps two thirds of the city's population left. at the people we spoke to, some could not leave but many said they wanted to stay, that there is a military fight on the front lines and they are staying for a fferent kind of fight, a fight to keep the spirit of the city alive. we spoke to the governor and a poet who is poetry readings. kharkiv is famous for its literally, cultural, and electoral tradition. he sees himself in a long line of intellectuals basting kharkiv who paid a very heavy price for their intellectual position to moscow. in the soviet era, poets and writers who try to define the ukrainian identity and many were purged, killed. he is continuing the resistance as part of the struggle.
we spoke to a young couple who had gone to the railway station and were planning to leave. they saw this huge crowd of people and kids trying to g out and they said, we are young, other people need to go more than us. every day since then, they have been collecting donations just from instagram, going online, go to the supermarket and pack up small food supplies. they go to the worst hit neighborhoods where people don't have money because the economy stopped with the war, people are running out of things to eat. in some cases, they cannot get out tohat shops e still open. they are handing out ts food. we saw people running when the van turned up, people literally running to get the food. they said that neighborhood was not even the worst hit, that they have and other parts of kharkiv where people are fighting for the food because the situation has gotten so bad. they are part of the strong community that are determined. we went out with the rubbish
collectors. you think a city under heavy shelling, given flak jackets and are going out with body armor protection. they say we have to collect the rubbish because if you leave it, it becomes a hygiene issue. it is a mole issue. people feel their city has been abandoned, so we have to go and keep this spirit of our city alive while our soldiers are fighting on the front lines. which is only a few kilometers away. juan: you right there's a sense that kharkiv is being punished by russia for its resilience, its resistance because it has managed to hold off russia troops. can you expand on that? >> certainly. a lot of people that we spoke to said -- they said, look, for instance in this very residentialeighborhood where the guys areollecting rubbish, it was apartment blocks, schools, couple of little shop every building w damaged.
they said, look around you. what is the military target he? that is near where people were waiting for humanitarian aid for it and six people were killed. they said, what possible military target is there here? the city hall, the fact that was targeted with a missile. the other places we saw, many were just individual residents. a courtroom, famous place, literary heritage place. none of them in any way our military targets. kharkiv is a russian-speaking city. it is just by the russian border. it was targeted at the beginning of the war. the governor of the khaki region said if russian forces got into the city but work repel. the captives they have spoken to said they have been told and expect particularly seen as -- it was the capital of ukraine
and some was seen as a cultural, and electoral capital of russian speaking ukraine. they expected to be welcome to come expected -- because there is been this military success, because the russian army was not able to punch into kharkiv, was not able to take it, there is this sort of pent-up fury the russian military was unleashing on them, pummeling the civilian neighborhoods. as we have seen in mariupol, to sort of homes most no military reason to be hitting these places, to be hitting apartment blocks, schools. amy: i want to go to some khaki residents clearing rubble and debris -- kharkiv residents cleared rubble and debris after a school was hit by a missile, telling reuters that russia had intentionally targeted the civilian structure. one man said he wanted to send a message to his brother in russia, who does doubly reports that russia is hitting civilian targets.
>> this is a civilian structure. it is a school. they have not been able to take the city so they decided to destroy it. just like the fascists did. with the russians do now, let them choke on their own body parts. not even the fascists did things like this. it is pointless. what has a school done wrong? would have the children done wrong? what have i done wrong? >> i looked out of the window. people started panicking so i came to help my former school. the russians had the only tech military object and structures. this is not true. this is what is really happening most of let everyone see. let no one say it is fake news. >> i want to send greetings to my brother. look, brother. you have liberated your niece, sure a nazi.
earlier you liberated your nephew, also a nazi, from another school. amy: those are the words of khaki residents. emma graham-harrison, started with a man trying to address his brother in russia who did not believe the propaganda about what was happening in ukraine. i want to go to something you tweeted, petition by a journalist calling on zelensky and mod, the master of defense, to end harassment and develop transparent rules of work. of course it decries russia's attack on independent media. but then it goes to the ukrainian government and it raises all sorts of issues like settling the issue of accreditation of journalists from the ministry of defense, explain it to the territorial defense units and security service of ukraine on the ground that this accreditation means. also providing all possible
assistance to the work of ukrainian journalists, on a par with foreign media. and signed by dozens of reporters. >> actually, i was not involved in drawing that up. i was trying to use my platform to amplify the voices of ukrainian journalists. i think it is really important their work on the forefront of reporting in this conflict is recognized. i'm reallyot the best position to speak on this and that i was not iolved in drawing it up. certainly, always in conflict zone areas -- it is important to make sure that everybody understands and recognizes the work of journalists and there is a clear accreditation system so it is easy to prove who we are, that we are genuine journalists, and we are doing our jobs. juan: i wanted to ask you, last night on pbs was one of the few
interviews that has been held with a spokesman for russia's president putin about russia's role in the war. asked the spokesman about this issue of the targeting of cities. denied it. he claimed -- and we've heard this before in other wars, including the united states -- ukrainian soldiers reason civilian facilities for a sniper attacks and other attacks on russian troops. any evidence of that that you saw? what was the role of the ukrainian military and the period you are in kharkiv? >> i can say in the civilian neighborhoods where i personally was and where i witnessed [indiscernible] extensive shling. i did not see any military presence at all of any kind.
there were checkpoints in the city at key junctions and things like that. certainly in the areas i visited where i saw damage and destruction -- i also went to sit the hospital in kharkiv or one of the many hospitals were of course as we have seen in dozens of attacks on health care facilities across ukraine in this w, perhaps most infamously the bombing of a maternity hospital in mariupol, but doctors and hospitals are extremely frightened of being targeted because -- russia says they're not being targeted but they are certainly being it. many did not want to give interviews. they said they were torn between the desire to show the world what was happening to civilians that they are treating and their fear tt talking about it publicly might put their patients at risk by making them a profile. that is a really terrible,
terrible thing to hear. the hospital we went to, there was shelling very close. the doctors and nurses had moved in the beginning of the war and not left. because of the intensity of the fighting and curfew, they were living there around-the-clock to treat their patients. they said if we go home and everything -- and there's a curfew, who is going to help them? the people we met, the people who have been affected by the shelling, by the war, were certainly civilians. for instance, an 18-year-old girl who was at home when they're building -- actually, the builng was hit by something very large so it affected their building. she refud to leave her apartment because her 93-year-old grandfather, very elderly grandfather was a double amputee and could not easily get down to the basement bomb shelter. i think everybody can understand that very human desire to be
♪ hello and welcome to nhk "newsline." i'm catherine kobayashi in new york. ukrainian and russian negotiators have sat down together to try to reach a cease-fire. they met again in a palace in istanbul but without any handshakes or the usual trappings of diplomacy. still, they both offered up measures they hope will build up confidence. russia
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