tv MSNBC News Live MSNBC July 24, 2011 7:00am-8:00am PDT
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♪ yes, i've been back, but when i come back ♪ ♪ no, no, no the rapid rise and fall of soul prodigy amy winehouse. good morning, everyone. i'm alex witt, and welcome to "msnbc sunday," where it's 10:00 a.m. on the east coast and 7:00 a.m. out west. this morning the white house is standing firm that a debt deal must raise the ceiling through 2013. house speaker john boehner says he aims to unveil the framework for a new shorter-term deal this afternoon. speaking on "meet the press" white house chief of staff bill daley said they will not accept a short-term deal. >> this has to be two steps, but the second step must get us through 13 without having to go through this ridiculous fight over extending the debt ceiling -- >> i just want to be clear. the president would veto a plan if it does not extend the debt ceiling into 2013? >> yes. the president believes that we must get this uncertainty in order to help the american economy and help the american people, we must get this uncertainty out of the system. >> well, joining me now, nbc
white house correspondent mike viqueira. mike, good sunday morning to you. >> reporter: good morning, alex. >> you heard what bill daley said. it sounds like if john boehner doesn't come to the table with what they're looking for on that specific point on the timing of this deal, mm-mm, not so much. >> reporter: you know, one hates to get involved in hyperbole, alex, but the question is when can you start legitimately calling this a crisis? i mean, these two sides this morning, both of them, house speaker john boehner on another program, bill daley on "meet the press," of course, still talking past each other, although there are hints that they could come together. specifically, john boehner says the deal that he had on the table this time last week, $800 billion in new revenues. he doesn't like to call them taxes. that's kind of a complicated semantic nuance there. but he says that's still on the table. and treasury secretary tim geithner on still another program gave an indication that they could still negotiate around that figure. so there's hope on that front. but john boehner has been meeting with the democratic leadership and the senate republican leadership over the
course of the weekend. we saw them yesterday doing so. they are still far from an agreement. now, granted, a lot of this is the cliche of the kabuki theater, everybody's sort of wearing their masks and you never really know what's going on. but the white house, and you heard bill daley say it, and we've heard harry reid say it, they will not agree to the short-term deal in the interim here that is being talked about by john boehner and republican leaders. boehner said today he would put that on the floor of the house if they don't come to an agreement by 4:00 today. what's the significance of 4:00 today? that's when the asian markets open on monday. in the far east it would be monday morning, they start to open. if they react negatively to everything we have seen since friday night when the original grand bargain blew up, then i think we're into crisis territory here. so there's a lot at stake. it's a high-stakes negotiation. august 2nd is the deadline. we're nine days out from the possible first default in american history. >> yeah. nine days out from something that nobody wants to see happen
certainly. do you expect there to be any announcements from the white house after they get a look at this thing? and do we know it will be delivered at 4:00 p.m. as expected or indicated? >> reporter: it's all very shaky, very tentative, very neblous right now. they still hope to come to an agreement on the hill to reduce the deficit and raise the debt ceiling by about a trillion dollars. that's what the gop has on the table. in the short term. the problem is the democrats and the president have said they want the debt ceiling to be raised, they don't want to have to deal with this next year during an election year, they want it to go through the 2012 elections. and that is the major sticking point here along with everything else we've heard about, entitlementment cuts and taxes. the question is politics is the art of the doable. somebody's going to have to step up and paint their political and policy masterpiece here really soon, alex, or the country is in for some serious problems. >> okay. mike viqueira, many thanks for that. and we want to let you all know we invite you to watch the "meet the press" re-airing. it will happen at 2:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc.
you see white house chief of staff bill daley, also senator tom coburn from the finance committee will be joining david gregory. we are learning new and disturbing details this morgan about those twin attacks in norway that killed at least 93 people. police say they did not arrive at the scene of the teen summer camp until about an hour and a half after the gunman first opened fire. nbc's martin fletcher is live for us in oslo. martin, why did it take so long for the police to get there? >> reporter: well, that's what everybody here wants to know, alex. it's a bit of a disaster. as you can imagine, there were 550 kids on the island, which is right here, the island behind me. so many of them would have immediately used their cell phones to call for help. and they did. so when the police got the call, it took them at least 20 minutes to get into the area. and the reason was they said they couldn't find a helicopter in the capital, oslo, to fly here. so the s.w.a.t. team arrived late. and then when they did get here, they couldn't find a boat to take them to the island. so it took them that extra time
again. so 90 minutes after the first calls were received and after the shooting began, that's when the police finally made it to the island. and of course the question is how many lives could have been saved if they'd been able to act more quickly. it's a bit early, by the way, for those questions to be actually dealt with because of course this is a nation dealing with this tragedy, in mourning. but at the same time those are are questions that will have to be answered seriously. >> oh, yeah. you know, martin, this man has admitted to what he did. he has yet to take responsibility for it, saying that he's going to talk about this in court and explain why he did it. but i want to take up an issue and have you clarify something you reported. my producer nick actually looked into this. that the maximum punishment in norway for any crime is 21 years in prison. if convicted, the 32-year-old suspect would be back on the streets when he's 53 years old. i'm taking that directly from your report. that's got a lot of us here in the studio thinking, are you kidding me? >> reporter: well, that's -- i think that's anybody's reaction. but one has to remember that here in norway, scandinavia,
there's very liberal laws governing their society. it's been a very peaceful region. and one of the reasons is, i assume, that that maximum penalty question suits the kind of peaceful society that scandinavians have come to know and enjoy. this of course changes things. i mean, can you imagine, this guy's right now got 93 murder counts and he's only going to serve 21 years? and of course there's the issue of how long would he serve with good behavior? so he may be out well before the age of 53. but again, that's an issue that the people are dealing with in norway today. but interestingly, there was an internet opinion poll on one of the key norwegian sooiths ites h they asked exactly that question, should the death penalty be introduced or should longer sentences be introduced in norway? 60% to 65% of the respondents in norway even after this attack said don't mess with the 21 years maximum because they want to preserve the values they have in this society. >> remarkable.
okay. >> reporter: rather than punish the individual. >> martin fletcher, many thanks for that. we'll see you again next hour. back here in the states oppressive heat has been the order of the weekend. triple-digit temperatures baked the east coast saturday from baltimore to new york, which followed friday, which saw 212 record highs across the u.s. in the south the heat is to blame for a growing drought that's now spread to 15 states. farmers are especially being hit hard as dry land has caused livestock within the region to just wither. so the question is when will this heat finally break? let's go to the weather channel's ray stagich and he has hopefully some good news on that answer. good morning. >> good morning, alex. some good news for some. we're lessening the heat, pushing it further south with this big ridge now going to park itself over at least the central part of the u.s., where the heat and drought will continue. right over the state of texas even through wednesday, you can see this little dip in the jet stream. that brings some slightly cooler air, not as hot air into parts of the east here, but right by friday the ridge is going to
build back in and we could see temperatures in the low to mid 90s. i certainly don't think any more 90 degree or 100-degree heat, excuse me, but we're still going to see hot stuff. the heat advisories, watches and warnings in effect basically from philly south along the coast and into the nation's midsection where this heat wave has taken the toll. right around two dozen fatalities, unfortunately, from this big heat wave. so it is a big story. and the other big story has been the rainfall here in and around places like chicago where we've had heavy rain, record rainfall yesterday. more problems. and the drought continues across the south, alex, where we wish we could get some of that rain south but it doesn't look like it's going to happen today. >> boy, do they need it. thanks, ray stagich for keeping a close eye often it for us. and for more on the weather where you are, you can head to weather.com. we have new video of a major milestone in new york. we're taking a look at the first ever marriage licenses for gay couples in the state. gay marriage became legal in new york at the stroke of midnight last night, and today more than 800 gay couples are scheduled to
get married in new york city alone. nbc's michelle franzen is live in new york city for us outside where a lot of this activity is taking place. good morning. what's the scene like right now? >> reporter: well, good morning, alex. certainly many couples are well on their way, already -- they've already been through the process. they've already said their i dos. and they've already been married here at the town clerk's office. once this truck goes by, you'll be able to see some of the people that are still filing in the door waiting to receive their licenses. and of course the waiver saying that they can get married today. of course the first day same sex is legalized here in new york state. a lot of emotions of course running high, too. many people have come with their families. other families have flown in from around the country. and many are also interested in making history on this first day, not just making it official. alex? >> yeah. and you know, michelle, it's not just necessarily gay sxulz their loved ones who are thrilled about all this but the folks in
the wedding business, that industry, are pretty excited about this, too, right? >> reporter: yeah, exactly. i mean, obviously, no one gets married for the economic factors, but it is something that the state looked at when the the battle was going on, whether or not to legalize same-sex marriage. and of course a new report just recently came out showing that in its first year new york state and the businesses here could see $155 million in revenue from tourism and other spending that couples that are traveling here or live here will make as they get ready to say their i dos. and of course all those businesses catering to couples such as florists and cake companies and bakeries are already seeing some of those orders come in. >> okay. michelle franzen, thank you so much. live from new york city. well, fans and the music industry are mourning the death of singer amy winehouse. the grammy award winner was found dead yesterday at her north london home. she was just 27 years old.
earlier i spoke to ian drew of "us weekly" who said it was clear she was a standout very early on in her career. >> she had an incredible fragility and vulnerability that i think is what set her apart as an artist. in speaking to her, there was just such a frailty there under everything. emotionally, she was very sort of unguarded. and i found that so refreshing and so beautiful. and i think that the great artists of all time sort of have that in them. >> for the latest now we head to nbc's tazeen ahmad, who's in london for us. tazeen-w a good morning to you. i know it's a somber day there in london. when might we learn what happened to amy winehouse? >> reporter: what we're going to learn, it will probably take place over the next few days. the autopsy is now expected to happen tomorrow rather than today. police are saying that the circumstances around her death are unexplained but not suspicious. so we still have to wait for those results to find out what's going on. they're saying it's dangerous
and inappropriate to speculate about what's happened to her. but of course speculation over here has gone into overdrive. tabloids today have been reporting that apparently a drug dealer -- she was seen with a drug dealer on friday, who gave her a toxic mix of cocaine and heroin. others are saying that it was alcohol and ecstasy-fueled binge that has killed her. but of course the simple fact is we're going to have to wait until the results of the autopsy before we know any more, alex. >> yeah. and it is the fact that she was in very poor health of late, right? i mean, she'd canceled that show in serbia due to being uncontrollably drunk or high on stage. i mean, she was not well. >> reporter: she was not well. she was looking very ill. and she's been unwell for a very long time. in terms of that tour itself, it was a 12-leg tour. on the very first leg of that tour in belgrade, she was on stage, she was drunk. she wasn't able to remember her lyrics. and she was booed off stage. she came back and she checked herself into a clinic here. she spent one week in that
clinic. and then she was being seen as an outpatient until the time of her death. just this week on wednesday she was on stage with her goddaughter, again looking disorientated and really as if she didn't really know what was going on. her mother said she saw her this week and she really seemed like she was completely out of it. so she was looking poorly. and you know, even her parents have said that they thought her death was expected. they weren't going to be surprised by, it alex. >> tragic. okay. tazeen ahmad in london. thank you. more on the debt deal fracas in washington. so the public be angry that an greemt h agreement has yet to be reached? plus, thousands watch and sweat as history buffs wearing wool in this weather? mark a key battle in civil war history. we set our goals higher than anyone.
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creditworthiness has already been damaged. that as lawmakers scrambled to put together a debt ceiling bill before asian markets open this evening. but in his friday press conference the president made it clear it's not only foreign investors who are losing confidence in the u.s. government. >> for us to be more worried about what some thunder says or what some talk radio host says or what some columnist says. i mean, the american people are just desperate for folks who are willing to put aside politics just for a minute and try to get some stuff done. >> robert traynham is the d.c. bureau chief for the comcast network and the host of roll call tv. cairn finney is the former dnc communications director and msnbc political analyst. good to see the two of you. welcome. >> good morning. >> okay. we're hearing a little bit of feedback. i hope we get that cleared up. but robert, with you, does the public have a right to be angry that this is not done yet? >> absolutely, they have the right to be angry. look, mr. and ms. america out there are trying to figure out how they're going to fill up
their gat tank. they're trying to figure out how they're going to prioritize between paying the electric bill and the mortgage. and you know, they sit down and they figure it out using their common sense. they figure it out. so they're sitting down right now looking at the television screen, saying why can't the republicans and democrats simply figure it out? this is what we pay you for every single day. this is why you're in leadership. stop acting like children and start acting like leaders. >> karen, back in january we had john boehner telling the white house there would be no debt ceiling increase without major cuts. six months later, it's not like there wasn't a heads-up this was going to be a problem. why is this still unresolved? >> you know, literally because washington tends to wait until the pressure of the deadline. you're right. there was plenty of time. everybody knew this was going to be a problem going in. and unfortunately, i think to robert's point, look, people out in america, we've seen this in poll after poll after poll. they have the lowest amount of confidence in congress of any
institution. and i think when we're seeing these numbers about levels of dissatisfaction, that's a lot of what it's like. and i think we're also trying to understand what we're seeing right now is that you have other countries and other investors and governments saying wait a second, if the politics in america are so bad you guys can't get together on this, why should we invest in you? why should we fear you as a superpower? and hopefully, it seems like unfortunately it's taking the pressure of oh, my god, the asian markets may respond and the worldwide calamity we've been talking about may happen in this gop default crisis to actually get people to say okay, we're going to sit at the table. >> you know, robert, i spoke with former representative martin frost a bit earlier today. i want to play a clip of that. >> the problem boehner has, he's only got a 24-vote margin of the house. he's got 50 members of the tea party who don't want to pay for anything. so he's got to come up with democratic votes. and how he maneuvers something that will attract at least some
democrats has been his problem from the very beginning. the tea party is an anchor around his legs. >> is the tea party keeping boehner from cutting a deal? >> yes and no. congressman frost does make a very good point here. it's a numbers game. at the end of the day it's a numbers game. members of the house obviously represent very, very small districts in terms of intellectually thinking, it's a very hard right or very hard left. there's no such thing anymore, unfortunately, as a center caucus anymore. that's why martin frost got defeated a few years ago because he was a blue dog democrat. but back to his point, yeah, it's a numbers game and speaker boehner has to figure out how he keeps some republicans in line, not all of them but some in line, taking the tea party out of it and obviously bringing some moderate democrats to the table as well. it is a numbers game. >> but robert, wait a second -- i'm sorry, alex. >> no, you can go ahead and answer because then i want to ask you about something you wrote. >> okay. no, it strikes me, though, president obama was willing to take on the far left in our -- it really isn't that far left, which i don't agree with some of the things that he was putting on the table. but he was willing to take the heat and fight for it. we have not seen that kind of behavior coming out of john
boehner. instead, boehner this whole like i'm here but i'm not and i'm scared, i mean, he is more afraid of losing his speakership than he is of getting this deal done. and that's appalling, robert. >> you know, karen, i disagree with you. here's why. i think speaker boehner really is on the side of the american people here. look, when you take a look at the polls, you can point out polls. i can as well. the american people want two things. one, they want less taxes or no tax increases. but also too they want reduced government spending. so -- >> no, robert, they want -- they're okay with tax increases on the wealthy, my friend. >> so when you take a look at it in that context, the speaker is right on the side of the american people. it's a little disingenuous to simply say to raise taxes on the wealthy because you and i have had that argument before. but again, the bottom line is that speaker boehner and president obama both have to appeal to both their bases. you've heard me say that before. >> now, karen, can i ask you in terms of the word "appeal" regarding what you wrote for politico? >> yeah. >> about how these two, it's almost like they were in a bad
relationship now. he's just not that into you. i mean, talk about that. it's like these two were doing the dance for a while and then no, something happened. >> well, particularly, you know, on friday i just felt like everybody here in washington, and not to make light of a very serious situation, we're all so tired of talking about it, i thought let's have some fun with this. and you have to admit friday seemed like two cross lovers coming out saying, well, he didn't call me back and, you know, well, he's like a bowl of jell-o. so it was just like -- i pulled out one of my favorite dating bibles, "he's just not that into you," which is always a good reminder when the guy doesn't call you back he's just not that into you. so mr. president, it's time to move on. >> you know, alex, and that's back to my point about how the american people just look at this and say this is just silly, this is just childish, this is the president of the united states of america and this is the speaker of the house. figure it out. >> yeah. >> regardless of whether you have bad breath or not, on my date or not. >> exactly. >> i was going to follow up with something, but i'm leaving it so
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welcome back to "msnbc sunday." i'm alex witt. and right at the half hour now a leading republican senator who serves on the finance committee said this morning the president may have to swallow a short-term debt ceiling deal. this is what oklahoma senator tom coburn, who is a member of the gang of six, said to david gregory on "meet the press." >> i understand why they're saying they won't sign a short term. but i think they won't have any choice. and i think that's the only answer right now. i would vote for a compromise, as i did in the deficit commission, as i worked with the guys in the gang of six, provided you get significant changes to the real problem that is facing us, which is the waste and the duplication and the fraud in the federal government programs and, number two, reforming the entitlements. mr. daley also said they were going to oppose anything that would fundamentally change medicare. well, medicare is belly up. anybody that's on medicare today, i want to tell you, it's
going to ahave to change. we cannot keep borrowing the money to keep it going the way it is today. >> you can catch david gregory's entire interview with senator tom coburn when it re-airs at 2:00 p.m. right here on "msnbc sunday." the 102nd annual naacp convention is now under way in las vegas. delegates have mapped out a week-long agenda, the theme of which is "affirming america's promise." a variety of topics and challenges are on the roster, one of which includes the looming debt crisis that has all but gridlocked lawmakers on capitol hill. hillary shelton is the naacp senior vice president for policy, and he joins me now. good day to you. i'm sure you have better weather there than we do here. >> good day. yes. i just flew in from washington, d.c. and it is a lot nicer in los angeles right now. >> i'm sure you stepped off the plane at l.a.x. and got a sigh of relief. but before we get started hillary i want to ask you about some of the topics and the goals at this year's convention. how many differ from past years' gatherings, and are the challenges just as great? >> well, they absolutely are, as
a matter of fact. the different obstacles as we talk about things like the debt ceiling, the challenges of african-american males in our society, the issues of health care, of the environment, all those are constant, but the challenges always differ, of course, as our society moves forward. so we're excited about the delegates that are coming from all over the country and quite frankly across the world. to address these issues from a community-based perspective and then focus on real solutions that americans can gather to work together to try to bring forward. >> okay. let's get to one of the most hotly contested issues right now, that being the debt ceiling. and i want to bring up a quote from georgetown professor michael eric dyson about recent efforts to strike a deal and raise the ceiling. here's what professor dyson said. "congress will not vote to put the economy in the black because the country is in the hands of the black." kind of stunning. what do you make of that? >> well, i'm not sure exactly what my friend dr. dyson meant. but quite frankly we do understand the challenges before us right now. as we talk about the debt ceiling, we know america's a
country that like any business or small business needs a line of credit to be able to move forward on its agenda, to address its issues of today, but also to plan for its future. so indeed, the debt ceiling needs to be raised. but as we talk about raising the debt ceiling, we have to make sure we don't hurt the most vulnerable among us. many of the programs that are on the chopping block, whether you're talking about medicaid, medicare, social security, or other programs are very important to, again, the least of these in our society, those that will affect most traumatically communities of color and other communities throughout our country. we have to make sure we don't allow them to become the sacrificial lambs for a very narrow agenda that's not good for america as a whole. >> do you have any sense at all about how the president's handling of the debt talks is being viewed within the delegation there? has his stance hurt or helped? >> it's very favorable. we had a meeting with the president before we came out here to los angeles. president and ceo benjamin todd jealous along with members from
the national urban league sat down and talked to the president about the debt ceiling, talked to him about the proposed cuts, and made it very clear that there are some programs that should not be touched. they're programs that provide a different kind of support for people. so as we're here in los angeles, as we move throughout our convention, hearing from our chairman of our national board of directors, mr. rosalind mcallister brock this evening, we'll be talking about those problems and their importance and effect on african-american males in our society. as we move throughout the convention we have members of congress that are joining us from all over, congressman bobby scott who's very actively engaged, congressman from here in los angeles maxine waters, laura richardson, sheila jackson lee, and marsha fletcher are all going to be here to discuss these very issues and talk about how we can work together to make sure the agenda and concerns of our community are also taken into major consideration as we move forward as a nation. >> okay. so you have a stellar bunch there gathering. but if you look at jobs, hillary, certainly the national average 9.2% with this high unemployment. but if you look at them from a
demographic breakdown, among african-americans that number is 16%. are there expectations on this president to do something about the jobless situation within the african-american community as he approaches the end of his term? >> oh, absolutely. as a matter of fact, you're absolutely right. 17%. but if you look at subdemographics like african-american males you find an unemployment rate in many cities, including here in los angeles, that exceeds 50%. so it is a crisis situation. and yes, we've had those conversations with the president and many very high-ranking members of the u.s. house and u.s. senate. there's a promise by the president that as soon as we can get past this debt crisis the number one issue will be jobs, jobs, jobs. and that is a direct quote from president barack obama. >> what do you think is your rallying cry, i guess the banner that the naacp will hope to accomplish as an organization during this session? >> well, it's important that these issues are on the table. that we don't allow those very narrow, extremist perspectives
that would cut programs, that would actually end up hurting the most vulnerable among our societies, including the african-american community. so as we're working with those in appropriations and those as we talk about authorization issues, as we look at the budget process moving forward and of course the debt ceiling as well, we want to make sure that they are informed by communities, tht something done on a lofty hillside called capitol hill but recognize that these are real programs affecting real human beings, real families, and quite frankly entire communities. so we'll be moving to make sure our people are registered to vote, are educated on the issues before them, that they can make an informed decision and turn out in record numbers on election day that they make sure their political will is known to those that will serve in the u.s. house, the u.s. senate, and of course as we move to 2012 the white house as well.
>> naacp senior vp for policy hillary shelton. thank you so much. have a good session out there in l.a. >> thank you so much. it was wonderful being with you. >> thank you. let's go now to the heat. the big apple's feeling more like the baked apple as deadly triple-digit temperatures roast the east coast. the temps have been so high and hot that people are actually avoiding coney island's boardwalk. they're either staying in the ac or they're heading out to the beach just to keep cool. that's where the weather channel's eric fisher was yesterday. but this morning he's moved to central park, where the weather, i don't know, still pretty sweltering there, right? how bad is it? good morning. >> reporter: i tell you what, good morning, alex. it's still pretty much on the hot and muggy side. we'll eventually by later this evening start to bring down that cooler air and i know a lot of folks are looking forward to that. one thing that struck me here in the city that i find very interesting. you walk down the street, you look at the restaurant specials that are out on little placards on the sidewalk. a lot of specials are soup. who the heck is ordering soup on a day like? we've 100 degree temperatures in the last two days. record high yesterday of 100. record high of 104 on friday.
today a meager 93 degrees or so. it's some relief. more substantial cooler air is going to work its way in for tomorrow. we'll see highs back into the 80s. today we've been watching the people. if you come to central park it's really something to behold. you see hundreds and hundreds of people working through, jogging, on their bicycles, not deterred by the heat at all. a lot of them packing a little bit of extra water. and that's certainly the way to do it. and we did see higher numbers on the morning. we actually had a 47-mile bike race here and had no heat-related issues. the hospital reporting here, the public system anyway, they had 53 people admitted to the hospital for heat-related issues back on friday. they say they see even higher numbers if you go five, six, seven days in a row where you have that prolonged heat. and believe it or not, this year not comparing to last year's heat. the last two have been exceptional days, but last year we had 37-degree days -- 37 days 90 degrees or higher. this year we're only at 13. and alex, i'll throw it back to you because i'm losing my mind out here in the heat of the last few days. zbliem looking at these pictures thinking you're still standing
there. i can't believe all the people that are running and pushing baby joggers. that's just -- well, that guy took his clothes off. >> reporter: you know, i'm based over in atlanta. and it's in the 90s in the summer. and i take july and august off from running and i just go to the air-conditioned gym. >> you are a smart man, eric fisher. thank you very much. so how is the president handling the debt crisis and how much will he be to blame if the deal is not reached? [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the jetta, awarded a top safety pick by the iihs. that's the power of german engineering. hurry in and lease the jetta s for just $179 a month. ♪ visit vwdealer.com today.
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crowds have been gathering outside oslo's main cathedral in norway today following two attacks that left at least 93 people dead. hundreds are lining the streets in what's turned into a national day of mourning. nbc's jay gray is in oslo with more. jay, good morning. >> reporter: well, good morning to you, alex. it has been, as you might imagine, a very emotional day here in oslo. hundreds of people turning out to the main cathedral here to pay their respects to the
victims of the tragedy. as you take a look, even in all of this rain they continue to walk down. i walked around the square not long ago, and they continue to pour in from every street. they feel, they say, like they need to be here and they need to be together. they feel like that's what's going to help them overcome this tragedy. and right now a memorial just outside of the church with flowers and candles and poems is growing. it is building. and this is likely to continue throughout the day here. again, just hundreds feeling like they need to do something to be a part of what's happening here. a very emotional service as well. the prime minister and royal family there. the prime minister with some direct words to those who are watching, "we're a small country, but we're a proud people. our answer is more democracy and more openness." so a strong message he is trying to send to the world against the message of the suspected gunman that talked about isolation. he had a real anti-immigrant stance. and so the government fighting back against that right now in
oslo. but more importantly for the people here, they're feeling the emotions. they're feeling the loss and say they need to be together right now and that's what they're doing here at the main cathedral. that's the very latest from oslo. i'm jay gray. alex, back to you now. >> jay, thank you for that. the debt ceiling debate has turned into a showdown in washington, with the stakes growing higher by the hour. lawmakers are trying to settle on a proposed deal before the financial markets open in asia. if they don't reach an agreement soon, it could send the wrong message about the financial stability of the u.s. treasury secretary geithner says the president wants a deal that will extend past the 2012 elections. i'm joined now live by eleanor clift, contributing editor for "newsweek" and the daily beast, as well as by msnbc contributor goldie taylor. ladies, good morning. >> good morning. >> eleanor, i'll reach out to you since you're the the furthest first here. politically speaking does president obama stand to lose ground with the liberal wing of his party if the debt deal is not to its liking or independents right now the bigger concern given the
election now next year? >> i think the president makes the point that if you're on the progressive side politically that you have as much invested in this as conservatives because if we don't get the debt under control there will be no money for what the president calls investments. and i think if you look at independents they seem to favor compromise and they want to get the debt under control and they're willing to make some concessions on the revenue side and the benefits side in social programs. so i think he's winning with independents and i think everybody talks about a crisis of leadership but i think it's a crisis of followership on capitol hill, mostly on the republican side. i think the speaker really cannot control the tea party members. they've come to washington not as part of a team but almost a separate entity. and i think there is an assumption that nancy pelosi and steny hoyer, the democratic leaders, would be able to whip
their members into shape, whatever the president decides. although i think they put up a fight, that he could bring them along. but i think everybody looks bad in this and a lot of damage has already been done to america's credit standing around the world and to the credibility of our government in washington with the american people. >> yeah. goldie, any chance you're disappointed in anything you're hearing from the capitol regarding concessions the democrats might be making? >> i think anytime that you are a president with a d after your name and you're willing to put things like medicare and concessions on social security on the table you that you really are taking a political risk. but it was a strong stand for president obama to take. you know, i think that eleanor is right that speaker boehner's going to have a very tough time getting his caucus together. and as the president said, if you're going to be a leader sometimes you're going to have to lead. he's going to have a really tough time bringing those tea partiers along. as for president obama i think he's going to be able to bring his independents along and sooner or later bring progressives along to say this is going to be a good deal if a deal is to be had.
but i'm not so convinced that unless we see some real shake in the market that until interest rates begin to climb, until, you know, social security checks or other federal entitlement checks don't go out that we're going to see real movement from tea partiers. after all, they don't believe, you know, as my grandmother would say, they don't believe that fat meat is greasy. they don't believe that if they don't strike a deal and get this debt ceiling raised that there are real implications in the marketplace. >> well, eleanor, how much blame would fall on the president if a debt ceiling deal is not reached? or do you think a high jobless rate as we approach 2012 and the elections, would be the bigger problem? >> oh, i think everybody's saying the results of the 2010 election are dictating the behavior in washington. but if that were true, they'd be more concerned about jobs than debt and they would routinely raise the debt limit, which was i think raised a total of 17 or 18 times during president reagan's eight years in office. this should be a routine housekeeping measure. and the fact that it's turned into this whole big
confrontation i think says something about the republicans overreaching the mandate they think they have. and i think the president gets hurt as well because he's not able to govern. but in terms of blame i think it's pretty clear the president's the reasonable man in this exercise and the republicans are the biggest obstructionists. so i think slight favor to the white house politically but not anything that -- of an overwhelming mandate. >> not anything worth boasting on. >> no. >> goldie, speaking of 2012, does it hurt the president right now that the gop field is still so wide open and that he doesn't have a specific opponent to focus on? >> i think there's a reason why it's still wide open. i think that they have failed to come together as a party to settle on some very strong and credible candidates. so i don't think that it hurts the president that there is no real credible gop field. i think it hurts the gop. i think that, you know, somebody referred to the party today as
more cult-like. and i think that is true by and large. that they just can't seem to really get it together and put a candidate forward, you know, who's going to be really viable come 2012. so i think it helps the president more than anything else that that field still has not seemed to gel. >> okay. goldie taylor and eleanor clift. ladies, good to see you both. thank you. >> same here. thank you. >> thank you. remembering amy winehouse. she released only two albums in her short life, but she sparked a retro soul movement that has yet to stop. next we're going to hear from matt pinfield coming up on "msnbc sunday." ♪ ♪ the sun goes down ♪ he takes the day i love that my daughter's part fish. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists, and our pediatrician gets all the information. everyone works as a team. and i only need to talk to one person about her care.
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♪ yes, i've been black, but when i come back, no, no, no ♪ >> that song, "rehab," catapulted winehouse to international superstardom back in 2006. but along with celebrity also came a very public battle with alcohol and drugs. joining me live now -- actually, doesn't need an introduction, but we'll do it anyway. matt pinfield, the host of mtv 2's "120 minutes," which debuts next saturday night. a big one for music fans. we all know who you are. thank you, matt, for being here. >> good to see you, alex. >> so your reaction when you heard amy winehouse died was shock, surprise, not so much? >> not surprised at all but very saddened by the news because you always hope that someone, anyone, whether it's a musician or someone else who's just struggling, anybody who's going through alcoholism or addiction, you hope they have an epiphany, that they get some help, they find the inner strength to get well. so it was very sad news but i was not surprised. you know, addiction is an equal opportunity destroyer. it doesn't matter your race,
sexual preference, religion, how much you make, you know, for money. it's just -- it's a very sad story. >> yeah. her album, the one that skyrocketed her to international fame, "back to black," put that in perspective in terms of the legacy it will leave on the music industry. >> well, i mean, it was a welcome relief for many people. they were so excited to have a record that you mentioned retro soul. to bring back that traditional soul style that was popularized by people from etta james to aretha franklin to robert o. flack. you know, no autotune, not too much production, real organic astronauts. the band she used, the dap kings, and her producer mark ronson, they made some good music together. >> yeah, they did. she was just 27 years old. it's as if -- and you know where i'm going with this. this 27-year-old curse as we look at other fabulous and troubled singers who went and met their demise at 27. jim morrison, janis joplin, jimi hendrix, kurt cobain, brian jones. what do you make of this? >> what i make of it is it's a period in their lives where
they've had a lot of success, a lot of money, and they've experimented and gone through a lot of the excesses and i think it just catches up with them. they become exhausted. their bodies give out. you know, they're not thinking clearly. just really a sad, sad ending p p. >> it is a sad ending. in terms of her legacy overall, though, i think in terms of her being a household name it's probably more because of her antics because she never progressed past that fabulous second album. >> well, she never got to make that third great record. and she's the one who opened the door for adele who's number one all over the world now, and made it popular to sing organically from the heart again and not use all these effects. and you know, remember that picture of her, one of the saddest pictures i ever saw was a picture of her running down the street in only her bra, crying with her arms out, looking so desperate for help. it broke my heart when i saw that picture because the paparazzi had taken that picture of he this person in this incredible deep struggle of addiction. and i mean, it just -- it was a telltale sign. >> where was her family in all
this, her parents? >> oh, they tried to help her. you know, it's got to be an inside job, they say. it's got to come from within to get well, to get the strength. there are people out there that do want to help and did want to help her that loved her very much. her parents included. but you know, you're an adult. and as they say, you've got -- it's up to you to do it. >> absolutely. well, matt pinfield, thanks for joining us. good luck with your mtv2 show next week. >> thank you very much, alex. >> thanks for coming in. the horror in norway. the man who admits to the killings is talking to police today. what he says may shock you. and in parts of the south it's not the heat so much. it's another problem that is plaguing parts there. and again, the death of a singer. we'll have even more details today in the passing of amy winehouse at the age of 27. i have copd. if you have it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and what that feels like. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms... by keeping my airways open a full 24 hours.
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