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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  August 9, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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i loved it when he was called hughy carey, greatest modern governor of all times. here, here. that's "hardball" for now, "the last word with lawrence o'donnell" starts right now. the president today said that standard & poor's didn't doubt america's financial ability to pay its debts, "they doubted our political system's ability to act." the president is absolutely right, and standard & poor's is absolutely wrong. >> if we go into a double-dip recession, i put the bloods on the hands of s&p. >> republicans are blaming democrats, democrats are blaming the tea party, but the blame belongs to standard & poor's. >> let's talk about the s&p. >> blame the ratings agencies. >> politicians of all sides attacking them.
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>> i think s&p's shown really terrible judgment. >> they've made a $2 trillion math error. >> s&p is wrong, totally, absolutely, wrong. >> president today aims to dismiss the s&p rating downgrade. >> what's the problem with the economy? >> robert reich joins me. >> the super rich have 40% of the nation's entire wealth. >> so pretty darn [ bleep ]. >> but how will watch get better? >> congress ultimately owns the credit rating. >> the house of representatives had a mandate. >> this is a tea party downgrade. >> pointing the finger at the tea party. >> if only the united states congress would take a hint from iowa. >> so pretty darn [ bleep ]. >> oh. >> and michele bachmann is getting competition in the race to be christian in chief. >> sources across the political landscape are indicating that rick perry, the governor of
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texas, will get into this race. >> you call us to repent, lord. >> god bless each of you. >> for thy is the kingdom. he's a wise, wise god. cry out for your forgiveness. >> rejoice in the lord. >> jesus! i love men. >> so pretty darn [ bleep ]. >> oh. >> you know, i got 98% of what i wanted. >> good evening from washington, john boehner got 98% of what he wanted again today. the dow jones industrial average dropped 634 points today, it is the worst one-day point drop since december 2008. 98% of that drop would be 921 points, which, according to boehner's claim, are assignable to him and house republicans who say they got 98% of what they wanted in the deficit reduction
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deal, which preceded the sharp decline in the stock market that began last week. skiddish investors, fleeing stocks, rushed to safer investments, and, as is customary during a stock market collapse, they rushed to the safest investment in the world, united states treasury bonds. that's right, shares of the federal government's debt are still considered the safest investment in the world by experienced investors on the first trading day after standard & poor's took the unprecedented political action of downgrading treasury's long-term debt from aaa to aa-plus. the s&p downgrade was a purely political act taken by these two leaders of the confederacy of dunces known as standard & poor's. john chaim mbers is the managing director of s&p and david beers is ahead of the credit rating of s&p.
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s&p has been egregiously wrong before, and they are wrong again. the downgrade was not based on so sophisticated analysis of the numbers. indeed, s&p got the numbers wrong, very wrong. friday afternoon, the treasury pointed out to s&p that among the many miscalculations it has been caught making over the years, it had miscalculated our debt on friday by $2 trillion. after s&p accepted treasury's correction of its calculation, s&p went ahead with the downgrade, couching it entirely in political terms. the political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as america's governance and policy making than what we previously believed.
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the statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy. john chambers, who lives in manhattan, and david beers, who lives in london, have no better understanding of the politics and policies of the united states government than you do. in fact, they obviously have much less of an understanding than you do, because they actually think that within the forseeable future, the next few years, the united states government might actually default on its debt simply by failing to raise the debt ceiling when and if it's necessary. the statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips. that's what worries them. i have told viewers of this program that we will always raise the debt ceiling, we always have and always will.
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what john chambers and david beers, the most incompetent analyzers of treasury debt in american history fail to understand is that the debt ceiling has always been a political bargaining chip. the political game of the debt ceiling just has never been played quite as loudly as it was played this year. almost half of the congress almost always votes against increasing the debt ceiling, the party out of power leaves raising the debt ceiling to the party in power. that's why senator barack obama voted against raising the debt ceiling when the republicans had a majority in the united states senate. not that senator obama was opposed to raising the debt ceiling, he was just playing a political game with it, trying to highlight republican responsibility for the debt. this year we saw something we haven't seen before, some tea party members of congress claiming that they would do anything to prevent an increase in the debt ceiling, no matter what.
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it turned out, big surprise, a lot of them were lying, and they did, in fact, vote for an increase in the debt ceiling. in fact, last week's vote for a debt ceiling increase was the most bipartisan vote to increase the debt ceiling we have seen in a very, very long time. but still, the incompetent, politically illiterate john chambers and londoner david beers offer nothing but the political worry that maybe congress won't raise the debt ceiling the next time it has to. they will be proven wrong every day for the rest of their lives. because the united states government, including the congress as currently ly ly constituted will never fail to pay its debts, and last week it proved that yet again. it proved it despite the utterly
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insane rhetoric of the michele bachmann's of the congress who john chambers and david beers regard as having something very important to do with our governing outcomes, in fact, michele bachmann has never once mattered in american government. you have to know something about politics to know that, to know she's just one vote in the house of representatives and her vote never matters, and john chambers and david beers, the stupidest political analyst in wreath history, they don't know that. john chambers and david bearce ignorance is more dangerous and ambitious than the craziest of the tea parties. the ignorance of these two men and of the rest of s&p have already done more damage to this country than the most inane bachmann utterance of american history ever go could. they are a disgrace of their occupation which doesn't deserve
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the term profession. i lead it to you to decide if they are a disgrace to their country. we have been struggling during the obama presidency to emerge from the most crippling recession since the 1930s, a recession brought about in no small measure by the willful, want, and reckless conduct of the dunces, and yes, perhaps criminals at standard & poor's. s&p and other rating agencies gave aaa ratings to mortgage-backed securities that turned out to be the toxic waste of wall street, junk worth virtually nothing. s&p gave that junk the same value as the safest investment in the world, united states treasuries. s&p gave lehman brothers an a-rating, right up to the month that lehman brothers went
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bankrupt. s&p was as wrong about lehman brothers as it is wrong about the united states of america. congressional investigators looking into the causes of the financial collapse found this instant message exchange between s&p employees. "that deal is ridiculous. i know, the model doesn't capture half the risk. we shouldn't be rating it. we rate every deal. it could be structured by cows and we would rate it." one s&p senior manager put this in an e-mail to another senior manager. "lord help our -- scam. this has to be the stupidest place i have worked at." s&p is the stupidest place everyone at s&p has ever worked at, and these two, john chambers
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and david bearce have now taken their places as the worst political pundits in our midst. joining me now, professor at berkly, robert reich, also the author of "after shock," which is in paperback, thanks so much for joining me tonight, robert. >> good evening, lawrence. >> the standard & poor's rating, as i read it, is nothing but a political adjudication made by people who know nothing about politics and also happen to have an absolutely horrific track record at doing what they are supposed to be doing for a living. what am i missing here? >> i don't think you're missing anything. it's extraordinary. here we have standard & poor's charging in the political arena in a way that is so unique with regard to ratings agencies, granted, they did a lousy job on
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what they were supposed to do, that was rating lehman brothers and everything else on wall street, but when it comes to sovereign debt, what they should pay attention to is obviously the size of a country, record of a country like the united states on paying its debts. instead they say not only do they believe they are going to honor our debts, but in the future they say we should get much more serious about, over the next ten years, reducing our debt by a certain amount, we should have tax increases, we should cut medicare. i mean they are acting as if they are another branch of government, and that is totally inappropriate. that is not what they are authorized to do, and it looks like the markets said to them today, well, we're rattled certainly, the stock market was rattled, but if you look at the treasury bill, the actual value of the treasury bill, the united states' i.o.u., the markets said, essentially, we are not going to listen to you. >> s&p's are record is absurd,
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and you wrote something very, very important today, bob, about standard & poor's falling down on the job in the past is actually part of what got us into this debt situation. >> of course. you know, lawrence, if you actually look at the record, had standard & poor's and moody's and fitch, the three major credit rating agencies, had they done their job in 2005, 2006, 2007, had they rated all of the junk that was coming out of wall street, not just lehman brothers, but everything else, the credit default swaps, the a.i.g., everything else, had they rated them what they should have been rated, that is way, way below the ratings they got, because they are paid from wall street. that's where there money comes from. there's a conflict of interest. had they done that, we would not have had the huge debt bubble, housing bubble. when it burst we would not have had the huge great recession at the scale of which required the government bailout of wall
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street, a stimulus package, a lot of things that are now contributing to the debt we have today. so it's a double irony, not only is standard & poor's not doing the job it ought to be doing today, it didn't do the job it should have been doing then, which got us into the trouble we are in today. >> robert reich, former labor secretary, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. up next, congresswoman jan schakowsky on the new pressures put on the congressional super committee. later, political reports, rick perry will make a major announcement on saturday. and in the rewrite tonight, why this country needs to be reminded that it is still at war in afghanistan. discover aveeno positively radiant tinted moisturizers with scientifically proven soy complex and natural minerals. give you sheer coverage instantly, then go on to even skin tone in four weeks.
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coming up, the fall out from the debt ceiling debate and the subsequent downgrade from the s&p, and do decisions of the all-important super committee
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now become even more high stakes now? i'll talk with democratic congresswoman jan schakowsky, and later, a weekend of tragedy in afghanistan. why does the president have to remind this country that we're a nation at war?
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i realize that after what we just went through, there's some skepticism that republicans and democrats on the so-called super committee, this joint committee that's been set up, will be able to reach a compromise, but my hope that friday's news will give us a renewed sense of urgency.
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>> that was president obama today expressing some hope that the u.s. credit rating downgrade will encourage to meet its mandate to agree to $1.5 trillion in additional deficit reduction. as to where the committee should find those savings, the president offered this today. >> last week we reached an agreement that will make historic cuts to defense and domestic spending, but there's not much further we can cut in either of those categories. what we need to do now is combine those spending cuts with two additional steps, tax reform that will ask those who can afford it to pay their fair share and modest adjustments to health care programs like medicare. >> efforts at such reasonable tax reform will meet resistance from the 274 congressional republicans who have signed grover norquist's pledge to
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never raise taxes in any way, including by closing loopholes, eric cantor reminded republicans to stick to the norquist position today, sending a memo to his caucus reading in part, "i firmly believe we can find bipartisan agreements on savings that can be agreed to without tax increases. i believe this is what we must demand from the joint committee as it begins its work." joining me now, democrat from illinois, congresswoman jan schakowsky, thanks for joining me tonight, congresswoman. >> thank you, lawrence. >> is eric cantor right, is it possible to, as he put it, find a bipartisan agreement? that means you, congresswoman, a bipartisan agreement on savings from mandatory programs that can be agreed to without tax increases? >> there's no way. if we don't put the millionaires and billionaires and the corporations that aren't paying any taxes or getting breaks to
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put our jobs overseas or the oil companies and we go after entitlement programs, social security, medicare, medicaid, you know, if this doesn't bring people to the streets, i don't know what will. certainly bring them to the phones because i'm already getting calls. we've been getting calls this whole period, people sobbing about not being able to rely on their social security check, are they going to get cut, are they going to get it at all. the gal of them to say that all of this ought to come from cuts that fall most heavily on the seniors, middle class people, this is not the america that most people want to see. >> now, we heard the president hoping the silver lining of the s&p rating, politically in terms of reaching an agreement on taxation, is that it would open up this tax question, especially
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since in the s&p report they actually say that letting the bush tax cuts lapse would actually help the situation. do you think there's any chance that republicans will read that sentence of the s&p report and think oh, okay, let's follow wall street's guidance on that? >> yeah, i mean again, the gal of standard & poor's to say they simply don't believe that the president is going to let the tax cuts for the rich lapse, i mean, you know, if they are going to get into the realm of politics, they ought to talk to their buddies on wall street, hedge fund managers that are paying 15% taxes while their secretaries are paying at the top rate or paying more taxes than they do. and, of course, since john boehner and other leaders have said we're not going to appoint anybody to the committee who's willing to raise taxes, the outlook looks pretty grim, but,
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of course, as you know, there is a trigger there that says if the super committee doesn't make an agreement, then there are cuts that go into effect automatically from defense, from other spending, and from medicare, and so, you know, any way you look at it, if the republicans don't turn around and the american people don't make them turn around and put revenue on the table, we're in big trouble. congresswoman, there's another way to get revenue on the table, which, of course, is the lost point of this whole spending cuts as the road to prosperity debate, and that is, of course, as you know, growing the labor force, having more tax payers out there, more people employed, more payroll taxes actually being withheld every week, any prospect of anything from congress to help the jobs situation? >> first of all, let me
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emphasize your point. if you listen just to washington, you would think there are only two ways, and that's revenue or that we cut, cut, cut, cut. and the third and best way and the way we've always gotten out of recessions is growth, growing the economy, and that spells jobs. that's why this week i'm going to introduce a bill that, you know, if you want to create jobs, create them. and my legislation would actually hire, make sure that we can hire over two million people at a very responsible price, all paid for by taxing the wealthiest, the millionaires and billionaires, and put them to work doing things that need to be done, and two to one, americans say that jobs is a more important issue than debt reduction, that we got to put americans to work in order to get them moving and get the economy moving. i hope so. i hope that there's some resonance to the idea in congress, something that's
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supported by the vast majority of americans that we need to create jobs. >> congresswoman, i've read your bill and am actually surprised how cheap it is to get those two million people to work at jobs that we need doing. congresswoman jan schakowsky of illinois, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. coming up, seven miles from rick perry's air-conditioned prayer event, 100,000 texans waited in line for donated school supplies. will perry bring the same priorities to a presidential campaign? and a country that has to be reminded it is at war. that's in the rewrite. former republican senator
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former republican senator mark hatfield of oregon died yesterday at age 84. he was a republican who became a moderate republican and then a liberal republican without ever changing his position. republican politicians changed around him. he was, until his retirement in 1997, one of the most-respected of our senators. and former democratic governor of new york, hugh carey died yesterday. the two-term governor vetoed six attempts to reinstate the death penalty in new york. there is no prominent democrat left with the courage to stand against the death penalty. liberals no longer recognize opposition to the death penalty
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as an important element of liberalism in america, republicans have beaten democrats into silence about the death penalty, but they could not do that to hugh carey. carey once said, i'd like to be remembered as somebody who cared a great deal about people. hugh carey was 92. still ahead, what's wrong with that photo of michele bachmann on the cover of "newsweek," and is rick perry going to challenge michele bachmann as the choice for the true believer's vote. and in the rewrite, why this country needs to be reminded that it's at war. my contacts are so annoying. i can't wait to take 'em out.
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he is a wise, wise god, and he's wise enough to not be affiliated with any political party. [ cheers and applause ] or for that matter, he's wise enough not to be affiliated with any man-made institutions. >> that was republican texas governor rick perry speaking to
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an estimated 33,000 people who filled up half of houston's reliant stadium for perry's prayer event. the event was mired. the original schedule had hagee speaking immediately after governor perry, but that was reshuffled at the last minute. instead, hagee and a spanish translator took to the stage an hour and 18 minutes after governor perry had finished, but that didn't stop hagee from mentioning his friend, rick perry. >> we pray for our governor, rick perry. who has had the courage today to call this time of fasting and prayer just as abraham lincoln did -- [ speaking in a foreign language ] -- in the darkest days of the civil war. >> hagee was not inspired to repeat his previous statements
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about hitler following god's wishes by killing jews or that catholicism is "a godless theology of hate." hagee explained why he likes to hang with a fake preacher like hagee. politico reports governor perry plans to admit he's running for perry at his speech in charleston, south carolina, this saturday, the same day america's political attention was supposed to be focussed on the ames straw poll in iowa. joining me now is howard fineman, editorial director for "the huffington post" and senior political analyst. is he running? >> i think so. >> is this official breaking news from howard fineman? >> no, this is howard fineman talking into a very plugged in senior republican. >> not the engines running,
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plane set to go to new hampshire and he decide he's not going? >> put it this way, he's almost never wrong, he said he's definitely running, he's got close ties to the perry campaign but is not part of it. he said he's running, and the logic of it is pretty clear, lawrence, because number one -- newt gingrich of georgia is $1 million in debt. there's a big, gaping hole there for a southern appeal to the bible belt, which is what that rally was, and to the tea party mentality. you couldn't have more stark symbolism than rick perry admitting his intentions in charleston, south carolina, which was john calhoun's home turf when he said leading up to the civil ward, let's succeed. >> i mention quomo, literally with an hour left decided not to
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fly to new hampshire to file papers. i don't believe you're running until you're running. who does this candidacy hurt the most? feels like it hurt all of them. >> let me explain the hesitancy there, there's lots of questions about rick perry's record in texas, and he's a texas-only guy. yeah, he can draw 33,000 in reliant stadium, but does he think he can play nationally? that's why some think he's hanging back, i'm told he's in. what's the advantage? there's a big, gaping hole there. if you look at the latest polls, rick perry, who's done little campaigning around the country has done a very god job of making himself a major player even though he hasn't announced yet. >> how did he do that? it's not a household name. this isn't bush, this isn't george bush running after his father was president. >> as a matter of fact, the bush people don't particularly like
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him. i had one bush advisor tell me rick perry's big problem is he only cares about sound bytes, he doesn't really drill down to the issues, which given the comparisons is telling you something. the bush people aren't for him, but the bush people aren't for anybody, and there's still a big hole out there where nobody is truly a frontrunner. mitt romney is not a frontrunner, he's a slow walker. in the latest polls he's still only getting in the mid 20s or something like that. it's not like he's the overwhelming favorite everywhere and if rick perry can establish himself in the south and bible belt and with the tea party people where he's running neck and neck with michele bachmann, then he has a chance to boom rang that back to iowa. straw poll coming up, i'm going there, a lot of political people are going there. he's going to be on a split screen in south carolina, appealing to that base, 30, 40% of the vote in iowa is
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evangelical christians. >> this does remind me last time around when the republicans were not happy with their field, rush limbaugh was very anti-mccain, he had taken positions that were not classical republican positions in the past, and then came fred thompson, wait until you see thompson, he's going to be amazing, is this fred thompson? >> i think rick perry is more energetic than fred, and i think all the reporters like fred thompson because he was good with a quip and so forth, but i covered fred thompson's launch in iowa and he barely wanted to get on the stage he was so against doing it. rick perry, the only thing that's holding him back is whether he wants the national scrutiny, but he's hungry for it. >> howard fineman, editorial director for "the huffington post" and msnbc political analyst. thank you for coming in tonight. over the weekend, the war in
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afghanistan roared back into the news after 30 u.s. soldiers were killed in a helicopter crash. why did the secretary of defense say it is a reminder that we are at war in this country? that's in tonight's rewrite. and later, michele bachmann supporters are outraged over a "newsweek" magazine cover they think makes their candidate look, quote, their word, crazy. that's coming up.
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30 americans soldiers died when their helicopter crashed in afghanistan. in tonight's rewrite, why does the obama administration think we need to be reminded that this is a country at war? if it's true that sharks can sense even a drop of blood from a quarter of a mile away, which razor would you use? ♪
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♪ ♪
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there will be other times for us to discuss the way
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reflects their courage, commitment and their sense of common purpose. >> and the secretary of defense, leon panetta added this. >> this is a reminder. it's a reminder to the american people that we remain a nation still at war.
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>> what kind of nation would need to be reminded that it is still at war? a nation in which everyone is not required to do military service or some alternative community service. a nation in which roughly 99 1/2% of us choose not to serve in the military. a nation in which most people are not related to anyone serving in the military. a nation in which most people do not know anyone who has been killed or wounded in our last ten years of war. a nation where it is impossible to, any way, experience a country at war. a nation where not a single deprivation has been suffered because the country has been at war for a decade. a nation where no one has to wait in line for bread or wait for fuel or for anything else in short supply because of war. a nation in which not one dollar
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of tax, not one dollar has been raised to pay for 1 ten years of war. a news whose news media is more troubled by the loss of credit ratings than it is by the loss of human life. and yes, a nation in which television news coverage of the war gets lower ratings than the latest irresponsible antics of the tea party that parenthetically puts soldiers' paychecks in jeopardy. that's a nation that needs to be reminded, it is at war. there will be other nights for us to discuss the way forward or the way out of afghanistan. tonight is not that night. tonight is for reminding this nation that it is, indeed, at war and for reminding the nation of the price of war, the ultimate sacrifice. though the pentagon has not
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released a full list of those lost in the helicopter crash, some families have confirmed some of the deaths. 30-year-old army sergeant patrick hamburger of grand island, nebraska had been in afghanistan for less than two weeks. 25-year-old petty officer first class michael strange from philadelphia became a navy s.e.a.l. about two years ago. air force technical sergeant john brown of alaska was in his mother's words, a gentle giant. aaron carson vaughn, of union city, tennessee, was a 30-year-old member of s.e.a.l. team 6. aaron vaughn leaves his wife kimberly, his 2-year-old son reagan and his 2-month-old daughter chamberlain. 32-year-old chief petty officer robert james reeves, served on s.e.a.l. team 6 and had earned four bronze stars.
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robert grew up in shreveport, louisiana with jonas kelsall, lieutenant commander kelsall was a member of s.e.a.l. team 7. craig vickers was on the maui high school football team in hawaii and was a member of the navy bomb disposal team. kraig lived in virginia beach with his wife who is pregnant and their three children. he would have turned 37 later this week. 35-year-old john tumilson always wanted to be a navy s.e.a.l. he was a wrestler in high school and a neighbor told the associated press, he was going to be a navy s.e.a.l. since i can't remember when. brian bill graduated from vermont's norwitch university in 2001 and then joined the s.e.a.l.s. a high school teacher of brian bills at trinity catholic high school in connecticut said brian
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just wanted to do his best to protect other people. challenge did not deter him, ever. most of the names of the people lost in the helicopter crash are not yet known to us, but we do know that none of the families and friends of anyone on that helicopter needed to be reminded that we are a nation at war. ce. but sometimes i wonder... what's left behind? [ female announcer ] introducing purifying facial cleanser from neutrogena® naturals. developed with dermatologists... it's clinically proven to remove 99% of dirt and toxins and purify pores. and with natural willowbark it contains no dyes, parabens or harsh sulfates. dirt and toxins do a vanishing act and my skin feels pure and healthy. [ female announcer ] new purifying facial cleanser
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michele bachmann has made the cover of "newsweek" at the same time that a "usa today"
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gallup poll shows her in fourth place behiebds mitt romney, rick perry and ron paul. bachmann has 13%. romney nearly doubles that. the cover of "newsweek" calls her "the queen of rage." bachmann was asked about it today during a campaign stop in iowa. >> you are on the cover this morning of what is left of "newsweek" magazine. have you seen it yet? >> i have not. >> it is a closeup. photo and a headline "queen of rage." >> we will have to look at, that won't we? >> what is the power behind your campaign is it rate rage? >> i think the power behind our campaign is hope and a future. that's all i believe in. >> joining me now msnbc johnathon -- and opinion writer for the "washington post." >> thank you, lawrence. let's start with the cover of "newsweek." they are calling the cover sexist.
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tina brown, who runs "newsweek"s intensitis galvanizing voters that. who's right? tina brown says it is intensity. and a national organization says no, this is sexist. >> everyone can be right in this little argument here. tina brown, you know, she's the editor of "newsweek" trying to pull the magazine off the mat. this is not the first controversial controversy that "newsweek" has had under tina brown's leadership. we are talking about it. people have seen the cover all day long. i used it in a piece i wrote today but there are legitimate questions to be asked whether it is proper, or i should say fair, for a female politician to be one called the queen of rage and two to be made -- not to be made to look crazy or unattractive as she is in that photo. she posed for that photo.
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they, "newsweek" being the they, chose to use an unflattering picture to go with the headline they used. >> the upward angle could be ambition. she wants to go up. >> iul eyes. you can look up and look towards the heaven thaens stars in the sky, but on that cover there, just her eyes are what pull you in, and they don't look -- they don't make you feel comfortable. >> one of the lessons that handlers in politics know for a long time you never trust photographers on cover photos because they are always looking for a shot you have never seen before. they are always looking for this, a thing that will make you talk about it. i don't care if it is the "new york times," and their handlers should have say no. she's going to do this and nothing else. you have three maintenance you are out of there. >> they could have limited the time. the amazing thing about the bachmann campaign. she is sdo so driven, focused and disciplined on everything
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else, including the clip in her response of whether she had seen the cover but when it comes to this she may have dropped the ball. >> she is now slipping in the polls. what's with rick perry entering and howard fineman assures us that rick perry will be entering. how does she maintain that kind of poise in the face of a real challenge, at least in the polls any way from rick perry who will step in to her territory? i think she will remain disciplined and focused. maybe turn up the heat of attacks on rick perry but she will have to do something to distinguish herself from him and to maintain the holdle that she has on the same voters that would be attracted to a rick perry. >> the republicans have hated doing this so far. they have been reluctant to take shots at each other. she's been willing to do it a bit with mitt romney but perry is a different thing. they are going right to the same
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zone. does that -- does that constituency want to see those two fight? >> i don't know. i think we will see and find out. texas. he hasn't been on the campaign trail. he has gone to iowa a few times. bachmann is in it and has been for months now. as we have seen since the cnn debate in new hampshire in june to right now. she wants this. iowa is going to be where she will make her stand. so, if taking out rick perry is what she needs to do to get it done, i wouldn't be surprised to see her do that. >> the trick is how does perry contend with her? >> right. because i mean, she's a female candidate, fellow conservative. how do you go after her without stepping on your own message and ruining your own candacecy sdp. >> and the organization for women is watching every word he says. >> absolutely. >> johnathon capehart, thank you for joining me tonight. you can watch him tomorrow