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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  August 11, 2011 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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pressure point. from wall street to washington to london, paris, in the streets of the mideast, things are swinging wildly but we can't be sure how or when it gets better. good afternoon. i'm matt miller in for dylan ratigan who's hard at work on his upcoming book "greedy bastards." hitting all the pressure points but we begin with two nations that have is a special and historic relationship. england and america. here at home, wild fluctuations on wall street with the market today going up more than 400 points. good news there after the recent turmoil, but only make as small dent in the 2000-point drop over the past three weeks. while in london, the week-long rioting seems to be easing after the prime minister took charge. >> we will not allow a culture of fear to exist on our streets. and we will do whatever it takes to restore law and order and to rebuild our community. >> we call this a tale of two countries. to compare and contrast we begin
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with msnbc contributor jared bernstein a senior foley oh at senator of budget priorities and former chief economist and economic adviser to vice president biden and rodney, covering the rights for the "new york times" london bureau. welcome, gentlemen. jared, start with you. unbelievable week in the stock market, jared. this is the first time in history, we're told, that the market has gone up or down more than 400 points four times, you know, in such rapid succession. what should people make of this? >> true whiplash conditions out there. i think your point earlier is the right one. largely you've seen a sell-off that has maybe been overdone a couple of days so bounce back. i thought was interesting the other day when the fed reserve came out and said, you know what? we're going to keep interest rates row for another two year. the market were elated. oh, we got the medicine we need.
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the next day they woke up said, low interest rates for two years? that means the economy must be really sick. so a psychological whiplash, basically the underlying problem is the economy, jobs, paychecks. much more so, by the way, than anything to do on the debt or deficit side. and i think policymakers need to recognize that and build that into where they're headed thus far. >> before i get rodney in, jared, how do you compare and contrast the u.s. and the u.k.? both are facing horrendous unemployment. especially among young people. you know, really depressing statistics when you think about the younger generation. 20%, unemployment in the united kingdom. over 17% in the u.s. what's your brief compare and contrast when you look at what both are facing now? >> an economic perspective lp that's really by bali wenk u.k.
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is economic austerity, meaning cutting spending aggressively before the underlying economy really comes back. what do they have to show for it for the previous two quarters? growth rates that are just about zero. they grew, as they put it, not 0. % in the quarter. 1yu69 about a zero broeth rate in the second quarter. now, we're doing a similar kind of experiment here talking about aggressive cutting as if that would help boost growth. of course, it goes exactly in the other direction. now, i'm not drawing a direct linkage between those policies and riots, that's more deep-seated. in terms of the economy's strength, an unfortunate similarity there, matt. >> let me bring you in. what's the situation today in london? cameron talking about, an american audience, interesting, they keep talking about consulting former new york and
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l.a. police chief bill bratton to try and contain these things and talk about shutting down social media. maybe being used by the hooligans or protesters, however you define it. really unprecedented in terms of where the u.k. is. what's your sense of the mood at this hour? >> well i mean, we're in a lull now. hideous riots. you've seen pictures of burning buildings on the fronts of newspapers. everyone's saying, how did this happen? how did the country, an affluent western capital turn into a place effectively lawless? the people are saying, were the police strong enough? do we need to bring in outside advisers? should they be allowed to use water cannons and plastic bullets? the riots had perfect shields and batons and traditionally in british life, the police officers have been more community based than a strong arm and the debate now has become, should that continue? do we have to change that? >> i want to play, we've got
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some tape of the people on the street, and their assessment of what's behind this. i'd like, ravi, to are you to listen and give reaction. >> got no future. they've got nothing to lose. >> they would rather steal it than go out and work for it and earn it. >> ravi, there seems to be a debate shaping up you can hear in cameron's language and in his critics whether this is something that is economic based, the result of the conservative austerity policies or whether it's just kind of hooliganism and criminality that needs to be checked? cameron in his speech to parliament was talking about bad parenting being behind some of the riots. how do you see this shaping up? >> i think it's an incredibly complicated situation. a lot of people i've spoken to who lost their livelihoods because of this rising saying, these young kids have nothing to lose. this could happen every year. they've figured they can hijack public attention, why would they not? no jobs, no houses, nothing to lose here.
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other people say, well, if you cut off an entire generation with no hope of getting jobs, why would they not riot? what else do she have to 0 do? the austerity measures haven't fully taken effect yet, throw separate to these rye it's and very difficult to suggest, to predict one cause. >> jared, i want to bring you in. you know, a real question some people are asking is whether something like what's going on in london now could actually happen here? and i want to put up a quote from representative john lewis, one of the famous veterans of the civil rights movement in the u.s. who seems to think it's possible. it's possible, he says, if something similar to hawaii happened in london could happen in america. sometimes you don't know what will spark such an incident. unless we move and move fooft help that segment of our society left out and ehind we're playing with fire. is john lewis right, jared? >> i think he has a point and now i don't necessarily draw a line between that and riots in the street. the key point that he's making there is a very important one,
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and that's -- it's not just at recessionary point, matt. kni this is a point that holds over last business cycle of 2000. the economy expanded. productivity growth strong in the 2000s, but middle income families actually ended up a little bit behind in real term where is they started. poverty rates were higher at the end of that period than at the begin. that's the opposite of the way this was supposed to go. for a long time we knew inequality meant people weren't getting ahead as fast. the economy is doing fine except for all the people in it, and that's now become a tinned per box if it goes on too long. >> ravi, one of the things that fascinates me, class -- david cameron, born with a silver spoon chastising the parents of poor people being, their parenting skills being behind what's happening after having taken a break and coming in from
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his villa in tuscany to come back and manage this crisis. talk to us whether through that lens there's a kind of tinderbox, to use jared's words that is a piece of hats happening right now no london. >> well, believe me, it hasn't gone unnoticed that cameron is as 15ds,000 a week tuscan village house, breaking out in london. one prn i saw at weren't of the riots yelled this is our battle. i asked has he meant, he said, against the ruling classes. there's certainly an element of -- he talk a lot of the kids, citing banks, grabs the money. why can't i smash a window and grab flat screen tv? pundits are saying these people have no hope of achieving the kind of affluence they want and they lust after and have been told they should be allowed to have and they go and steal it. >> ravi, jared, thanks for
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illuminating this disturbing stuff on both sides of the atlantic. we'll follow this in the days ahead. thanks for sharing your thoughts. >> thank you. >> thank you. some breaking political news this hour. the gop field just got a little bit bigger. also ahead this hour, a shining example of an america that can still lead. scientists take a major step forward in the fight to cure cancer. first -- waiting for superman. we'll get a whole super not tackle the debt. oh, and a hole form of lobbyists to make sure they get nothing done. plussish baby on the brink. watch as america's youngest investors loses it all. you won't want to miss it. so i was the guy who was never going to have the heart attack. i thought i was invincible. i'm on an aspirin regimen now because i never want to feel that helplessness again. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. talk to your doctor, and take care of what you have to take care of. talk to your doctor, this is my band from the 80's, looker. hair and mascara, a lethal combo.
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back with the debt talks. all 12 super committees spots filled. will this committee reach a deal when others have failed? plus if they're inadd dwoit begin with, i'll explain if they are, is this another bipartisan is a raid? luke russert on capitol hill. what do we know about the dozen appointees? probably not full bios of the full dozen but what interests you? >> reporter: the most prevent three named, jim clyburn, chris van holland and javiar, 9/11 put those forward. interesting about those three, clyburn and recerra to the far left and chris not far behind. four stand out to me. number one, john kerry. the democratic presidential nominee in 2004.
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he's someone who possibly could be the next secretary of defense if president obama is re-elected. dissension on capitol hill he would be really willing to make a deal, as would all of these four. another guy on this list, chris van holland i mentioned earlier, someone who is part of the president's debt talks when they were having negotiations all summer trying to raise the debt limit. he's open to possibly giving and taking with republicans. on the gop side there's two that are very interesting. rob portman of ohio. he's someone who is bush's budget director. george w. bush, our last president, someone who's worked on these issues continuously, open to the gang of six deaf ted reduction talks that happened over the last few months. he's someone who might be wi willing to make a deal pnd and someone in charge of writing the nation's tax laws is somebody who earlier today said, everything is on the table. his staff pushed that back saying obviously tax increase, not on the table, but perhaps
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with him there, someone in the path open to tax reforms broadening the tax base to have some sort of revenue increase, albeit not raising taxes, revenue increase, perhaps that could come out of this super congress. so there are partisans with this group of 12, no doubt about it. pat toomey, republican senator from pennsylvania. a lot of tea party support. patty murray, getting democratic senators reeleectsed. folks to the left and right. overall, from the choices that could have been made on this super committee, the majority of these folks all are known in washington to be willing to make deals. they have gone through appropriations fights before. these are not your standard ideologues, very much a group has would want to work to some sort of consensus. >> luke russert with that comprehensive report. >> reporter: a lot in a little bit of time is what we do, buddy.
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>> thanks, as always. we'll be back to new the days ahead. let me bring in our meg da panel. karen finney, also republican strategist susan del percio, and washington insider jimmy williams. both of them msnbc contributors. welcome, guys. you can see that after dylan ranted on you the other day, you've been -- they've put the host in a 3,000-mile distance from you all at this point. so, anyway, you clearly bring out the beast in the man. let me start with you, jimmy. the super committee put together all eyes are on this now, some talk also, though, about how e the, you know, the lobbyists -- i'm sure there will be 100 lobbyists for every 1 or more waiting to put pressure on them. how do you see it playing out right now, jummy? >> every lobbyist in washington is on vacation, but all on blackberry, not a smart way of spending your vacation. luke russert made interesting points about some of these members. i want to bring out three other
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ones, though. all three republicans. jon kyl, the number two republican in the senate, he is retiring from the senate, arizona. he is a member of the finance committee. a thoughtful member. a very much, a policy man. a smart guy, and he's not going to be beholden. don't get me wrong. jon kyl is as conservative as they come. not beholden to the idiots lie grover norquist. others, fred upton of michigan. chairman of the energy and commerce committee. spread a thoughtful member of congress. fred's been in the congress. i think since the '80s. he comes from the bottom part of michigan over towards lake michigan. he's a very thoughtful member, a smart man. it was foreseen as a moderate, swung a little more to the right to get the chairmanship of the enc committee but is the kind of guy that is old school. he thinks old school. he's the kind of guy that likes to make a deal. >> jimmy, let me get -- i want to get susan in on this also.
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here's my problem with this whole super committee, which is first, the goal isn't ambitious enough. even if they came up with another $1.2 trillion or $1.5 trillion in savings over ten sounds like a lot. the government's spending $43 trillion, $46 trillion over that period of time. the goal is not ambitious enough. second, suz's, i think republicans, their goal in this, if you're thinking like mitch mcconnell, to get democratic fnger prints on medicare reform so it's not an issue in 2012 and block all tax increases. for both those reasons this thing is doomed to fail. am i wrong? i. think you are wrong in the sense that you place the blame for anything failure squarely on the republicans. i think what you've seen bon both sides are very loyal party people on both the republican and democratic side. and obviously that's why they were appointed to the panel. has i'm hopeful is, it's that as president obama said, he will be coming out, rolling out new ideas on job creation and maybe even in the background can work on some kind of plan that this
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group can actually approve, that is will become a bigger picture. i'm actually hopeful that maybe the importance of seeing the stock market and everything else going on right now, they can come 20 a big picture kind of deal. >> and yet, karen, even if i take susan's rightful criticism to not blame the republicans for what i think is a breakdown of this entirely, couldn't the thing still be a big bust for the reasons i described? if you take out the partisan angle? >> absolutely. look, i think that's the clear message we've gotten from the market. the markets are saying, we don't trust your ability to come together and do anything. and so i hope -- i mean, one point i agree with susan on, i hope everybody is paying attention to that. certainly it's incumbent upon not just the president but there is shared responsibility here for getting a deal. i think the problem is, and we didn't get into this, but in terms of lobbyists, we know every single member of that
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committee, democrat and republican, is going to have outside pressure unfortunately, and i hate to say this, not to come up with a deal that is the best for america, but to come up with the best deal they think they can get. politically. and unfortunately, that's going to mean we're not probably going to deal with a lot of these big picture underlying issues. it's going to mean, we'll do tinkering and hopefully we'll get a few things done. and hopefully the political pressure coming from the outside, i agree with what the president said earlier today. i hope everybody contacts their members of congress and applies pressure to say not getting a deal of some kind is unacceptable. >> all right. >> lots of other political news today. rick perry, we've now learned, is going to announce his presidential bid on sunday at the red state convention. this is the backdrop, the gop has their big dmeebt iowa tonight. also you've got a whopping 73% of merchs in the latest poll saying country is headed in the wrong direction. the president talking jobs in
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michigan where unemployment is say bov 10.5%. urging, as karen said, to get folks in the game and calling on congress to do something. jimmy, is any of this going to make any headway and what do you make of rick perry taking the plunge? >> i think rick perry is a fabulous entry into the republican side for the nomination to be president of the united states. i can't think of anybody i would like better than a perry-bachmann ticket. barack obama will win with 70%. the more people that get in, the farther to the right they go. i love extremist candidates, because they make barack obama look like a moderate. so rick perry, please, you're the weakest governor, the weakest governorship in the entire country of al 50 states. please, i beg you to get into the presidential race. i can't wait. >> susan, what are you looking for for the big iowa debate? are you going to expect some real news coming out tonight? >> i pretty much expect that michelle -- excuse me.
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michele bachmann, michele bachmann will come out swinging pretty hard and that's going to throw a lot of people off. more importantly, the big news that's coming out of the debate is rick perry, and he's obviously going to have the headlines for tomorrow. it was actually a very good move, political strategy for press, and i think he saw with palin and others taking a shot on saturday, he would make his move today. so it was very smart. >> karen, a quick last word for now. anything that interests you in terms of the debate tonight or what obama tried to gin up in terms of his rhetoric and message today in michigan? >> a couple of things. one, the more extreme it is, if it is perry, hopefully the sharper the contrast between barack obama and whoever that person is in the general election which i hope actually means that obama can, you know, go back more a little bit towards the progressive agenda, which i don't think is so left. i actually think it's main stream and good for country, and secondly if you're tim pawlenty and just spent all of this money, say michele bachmann with
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a petting zoo, in the straw poll, rick perry just basically trampled all over all of that. >> speaking of trampling, the panel is going to stay put where they won't be trampled. up next, the economic roller coaster that has even the e-trade baby dropping f-bombs -- i want to take it back, i want to mp take it back. sell, sell, sell! too late. it's all gone. the safety of onstar is now available for your car. ♪ [ recorded voice ] onstar. we're looking for city hall. i'm sending directions to your car. [ recorded voice #2 ] turn right on hill street. go north for two miles. ♪ [ man ] this is onstar. i got a signal there's been a crash. do you need help? yes, please. i've got your gps location. i'm sending help. [ female announcer ] introducing onstar fmv. get it installed on your car at best buy or visit for more stores.
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make me a big investment is as easy as simple click. i just bought more stocks. boom. more stocks boom. credit default swaps. wait. why is this line going down? oh, god. dropped 400 points. i want to take it back, i want to [ bleep ] take it back now, sell, sell, sell!
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>> that's the college humor with a lighter take on the recent market mayhem. got to love that baby. in all seriousness, how bad is it? worse than the 2008 crash? our specialist is here with the answer. let's bring in dan gross, columnist and economic eder for yahoo! finance. dand, thank you for coming in. >> good to be here, matt. >> obviously a lot of anxiety out there in the markets. some people probably feeling a little better today because we ended up over 400 points. historic gyrations, is this going to about repeat of 2008 and why or why not? >> i think it's natural people make reference to that because it's kind of resembling 2008. only a few years ago the entire market system melted down, but i think there are important differences. main thing is, 2008 was a private sector debacle. lehman brothers, $650 billion in debt and essentially no equity out in there. aig, fannie and freddie. nothing that could be done to
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save them other than the government coming in and backstopping certain debt. the fed coming in. this is almost entirely what we're seeing today. a public sector problem. and it's a public sector problem that is not in the u.s. despite this talk about the downgrades. the u.s. is not in danger of defaulting. our interest rates are ex-extraordinarily low. tax revenues increasing. it's a european public sector problem, and, you know, almost by definition, then, the u.s. consumer, u.s. markets, the u.s. economy as a whole should be a little more insulated now than three years ago. >> talking to you, dan, makes me feel better already. susan del percio has a question. >> dan, the way you described the two different situations, does it affect the public differently, though? i mean, people are seeing the markets tank. they're really scared. their 401(k)s are going down. i don't think they care if it was public or private driven. they want to know, is there a
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difference and how it affects them. >> yeah, i think muscle memory is a very important factor in all this. you think about in this spring of 1999, if you heard a loud noise in lower manhattan you would think it it was a tire or car backfiring. in 2002 when you heard a loud noise in lower manhattan, the answer would be to panic and run. that's what we're seeing now. people think that a hint of trouble, a spot of trouble, or several spots of trouble is going it lead to a repeat of what we saw three years ago. that's not necessarily the case. the other significant distinction i think between now and then is has in 2008, the u.s. had already been in recession for seven or eight months, losing jobs by the hundreds of thousands. things aren't so great today, but at least we've been in expansion and we are better prepared to weather a downturn or whatever this may bring than we were three years ago. i think that's another factor that is going to prevent this from being as extreme a market event, as extreme an economic
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event as it was three years ago. >> karen? >> hmm. sounds like what you're saying is we're going to potentially lose less, which i guess is pretty good. one question, teeing off what susan was asking in terms of fundamentals, you get to the next layer down in terms of people who have been unemployed a long period of time, minority communities hit hard. regardless of the reasons, feels like things don't really change. it still sucks if you're, to put it bluntly, if you are one of the folk whose has been unemployed or underemployed for a significant period of time. it just doesn't seem to suggest that things are going get any better for those folks anytime soon? >> you know, where we are in terms of the -- if you filter out the stuff coming from europe, is this process of kind of, what i call this grind it out economy. where we are plowing along 1.5, 2% growth. that's positive, but it's not satisfy, and it's not enough to fill up all this empty space we
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have where people want work, where factories want to be employed. this, these gyrations alone do not make that materially worse. the problem is going to come in down the road this leads to disruptions overseas. in the aftermath of 2008 crises, world trade plummeted by 30% or 40%. i don't perceive that happening right now. if that happened again a very big negative for people working in these industries and for the ability to recover. >> jimmy williams? >> hey, dan, just two really, really technical questions and i hope you can answer them's in 2008, were taxes lower then than they are now? first. and, second, who was the president? >> you know, it's easy to kind of banish those memories. 2008, president bush was president.
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>> uh-huh. >> taxes were -- you know, the marginal tax rates were the same. payroll taxes were higher, because we had this one year temporary payroll tax holiday. >> george bush had been president eight years and taxes are lower now than at that point in time. right? . >> i think you're leading the witness, jimmy? >> and your point is -- >> i'm trying to figure what the hell happenhood george bush was president and taxes were low and what's happened now. i'm sure we were in a recession then but we aren't now. under both regimes -- >> under both regimes thing was less than satisfying. >> agreed. >> looking worse in hind sooigtd because of revisions in data and bayh because a lot of consumption in '05, '06 and '07, people borrowing against their house and borrowing money from banks they weren't going to pay, a fake consumption, and now
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lower levels of spending but done with more cash and it's being done off a higher he of aggregate savings which is on the whole, americans and american companies in particular have a lot more cash than a few years ago. that's another reason -- in '08 nobody had any money. aside from owing a lot of money, they didn't have money set aside for a rainy day. we've been preparing for rainy days collectively, those that can, for basically a three-year period now, and that should, in theory, render us more able to weather this period. >> hey, dan, time for one last question. all of this talk now about france facing a potential downgrade, and these european banks. that confuses lots of people who view it as, including me, a kind of scary blob overseas that could affect us. briefly, what's the right way for folks to think about the european banking and debt woes? >> name europe scary blob
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overseas. the debt woes, you know, remember we thought -- this is the way it is similar to 2008 in concept, if not in form. remember '06, '07 it was like, oh, it's subprime, just these bad subprime lenders. then, subprime and all these loans then, okay, it's mortgages, just confined to that. a similar process where we said, okay, it's just iceland. the island out there, crazy vikings who ran around and went nuts. just greece. the greeks they don't like to work. oh, just ireland. they had a crazy banking scandal. you know? and every three months you wake up, no, it's something else. and the reality is, debt levels are very high across europe in the public and private sector, and the banking systems there are all intertwined. and all of this talk about bailing out greece, bailing out italy, they're not bailing out the governments. they are, have always been, from the beginning, bailouts of the european banking sector.
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in particular, the german one. so the german politicians can get on their high horse and say all of those other people in southern europe, how terrible they are. they need to work harder like us. we hate bailing them out. what they're really going is saving their own banking systems from having to be bailed out by domestic governments. we're seeing this continue to roll on. now it's france, visa vi italy. french banks, now that you questioned value of italian, debt, you are questioning the value of french banks. by definition in europe the way to think about it, sovereign debt crisis equal's european banking crisis. >> dan gross, thanks for that. if dylan were here, all roads lead back to the banksters again, because that seems to be true no matter where you are. dan, thanks for ill elucidating all of this to us and thanks to the megapanel, karen, susan and jimmy, for your insights and
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that wasn't so bad today, guy, right? no hot breathing on you? from mile ace way. we'll talk to you soon. still ahead a small stud they could be a big breakthrough in curing cancer. i love that my daughter's part fish.
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smallstudy could be one of the biggest cancer discovers yet using gene therapy. removing white blood cells which normally fight infection. they then injectsed the cells with a harmless form of hiv to make them kill the cancer cells. the modified cell was injected back into the patient and wiped out leukemia cells with days. researchers called the modified cell serial killers because each destroyed thousands of tumor cell. think of it as putting your
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immune system on steroids. another plus, these cells stick around. usually modified cells dious quickly but were present months later this time indicating if the cancer returns the modified cells could still be there to destroy them. no chemo needed. the down side, don't expect to see this as your local hospital anytime soon. a long way to go before it gets to the process. only three people took part in the study. two in remission. the third saw a 70% improvement. that's great news. next, the other global crisis. an update on the battle for democracy that spread through the middle east. [ barks ]
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we focused on our economy in crisis, another crisis continues to play out in the middle east. at the sent of the violence now, syria. the death toll from months of uprising totals nearly 2,000. government forces today are said to have stormed a border town while at the same time insisting their tanks are pup back from hamas, seeing brute's attacks on protesters. peen meantime in libya, the stalemate continues between gadhafi and rebels. pushing towards tripoli. the problem, gadhafi controls the oil. in israel, palestinians are condemning israeli government approval of 1,600 new settlement
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homes to be built in a disputed area. the israelis call the decision economic, not political. the palestinians refused to take part in peace talks as long as the israelis keep building these home. now to help us make sense of the latest developments in the mideast, let's bring in our experts from the london school of economics and reva, director from stratford. welcome to both. reva, start with you and syria. continued violence. continued talk about what might be done to help the rebels who are trying to get traction. secretary clinton talking about getting other countries involved. where do you think this stands today? what should people be thinking about, hats happening on the ground in syria? >> it's still a difficult situation, and i think you can see the united states shifting its stance with it to proclaim that the smhah must go, there my
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be an alternative. primarily the u.s. is looking to heavyweights lie turkey to manage this crisis. not like the united states is about to launch another military campaign in the region, sump as in libya, but, you know, turkey isn't quite prepared to deal with this crisis either. the opposition is still a very, very murky landscape, and i think the situation is creeping towards the probability of a coup with the ranks of the military. >> what do you make of this? secretary clinton talked about china needing to get involved. how do you see the situation in syria at this point? >> matt, the situation is very complex, and very different. i think you have a deadly embrace between the protesters and the civilian regime. i think, both camps are going for broke. it's a struggle to the bitter end and i think syria is descending into a low intensity conflict, because moderate protesters know the regime basically are willing to give up
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to compromise. there's nothing that president assad can do to apiece the protesters. the protesters want a change of regime. they want assad out, and assad, i think, would make a terrible mistake to underestimate the staying power of the regime and his willingness to fight to the bitter end and the last few months, you all know, have been very bloody, and i fear that syria will have very dark days ahead indeed. >> well, reva, as we continue our lightning round across the middle east, libya, lots of concern the rebels might have stalled because of their own lack of oil, which gadhafi controls. meanwhile, this has been a very long time where the u.s. has ann an undeclared war by nato. how do you see the latest developments in libya? >> in libya we're looking at a protracted crisis there. there's really no clear indication the rebels will be able to make drastic moves to
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overthrow the regime. it wasn't surprising to us gadhafi was able to last this long. really, it's up to the players involved to come to some sort of negotiation. now, the core problem with this crisis right no is that ga doff hey no one party that can guarantee him immunity to end the actual crisis, and to actually end the fighting. you know, the icc guarantees, he can't trust that he's not -- get immunity that anyone promises hill. without the trust, you'll see more fights an the united states, britain, italy, none will be able to come to the table and bring forward a solution. you're going to see other players coming in more and more. the russians trying to play a role in this. it's difficult to see if anyone can find a deal with both gadhafi and the rebels that would satisfy anyone. >> now, if gadhafi emerges from this in power, isn't that a
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terrible black eye for the west? having this shoved down their throat? >> absolutely. not only undermine the credibility of nato but a devastating message to the millions of arab protesters calling for freedom and liberation. you asked me how the assad regime is doing. if gadhafi can survive six months with a relentless campaign by nato, a punishing campaign in the last few months, the entire international community against that, you can imagine how long it will take for the protesters in syria to basically punch a nail in the coffin of this syrian regime. not to mention, they are deeply divided and incoherent. several points about libya. first that i think the international community underestimateds strength and the staying power and also the limited but prudent base of support for gadhafi, and in the last few weeks, matt, we have
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witnessed also the emergence of major cleavages with the opposition. the assassination, brutal, cold assassination of weren't of the top military commanders of the rebels by a rebel unit tells you a great deal about the lack of unity in the opposition of the rebels and also it tells you a great deal about how ga doff hey been able to survive for as long as he has in the last six months. >> all right. fawaz and reva, thanks for the lightning tour. we'll spend more time on the israeli/palestinian question which obviously is not going away way. thanks for sharing your thoughts today. ed president is focused on jobs but will the crises over seas throw another wrench in his plans? and shouldn't he be able to walk and chew gum at the same time? we'll talk about that next. coming up on "hardball," iowa fight night. the battle between the two leaders of the republican party. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um...
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the obama downgrade, and with barack obama what do you make of all this? >> i'm still disappoint. america finally gets its first black president and our [ bleep ] credit goes bad. >> it seems the whole world is in crisis right now. whether it's violent uprises or economic downfall and we still find ourselves waiting and hoping somebody will take the reins. president obama claims his focus is squarely on the jobs crisis? is he only able to juggle one crisis at a time? from 15 minutes public relations
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howard bragman. welcome, howard. what do you make of how obama is performing? turmoil abroad a tremendous jobs, economic crisis at home. a lot of people questioning whether obama's leadership is really up to the task, even among his supporters. dissatisfaction. how would you rate him? >> well, before i rate him i think you have to understand the environment he's operating in. and i will say, i think he's better at running for office and projecting leadership than he has leadership in office. i'm happy with a lot of thing he's achieved but not heralded them well or held his position well. is-it-is not a world where you mobilize half the country and get going. we live in a world of marginalization. the things that got done on health care, the things that got done in the debt crisis, these were all done in the fringes. little deals and wouldn't even tackle the big 1.5 trillion dollar budget deficit in a they had to agree on because they knew they couldn't. and understand that it used to
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be when i was a kid, and this is the old guy talking, but had i was a kid you'd watch tv. you could reach the country. you could reach half the country by going on tv. nowadays, a well-ranked tv show, the biggest tv show reaches maybe 10% of the country. we're all marginalized. even obama who won an resounding electoral and popular vote victory really got 22% of the popular vote. so that means there's close to 80% who didn't vote for him, and it's a little disoriented. as long as people understand that we're going to play in the margins, we're not going to have the leadership, and i think it's time for him to step up. i personally wish he had called upon the 14th amendment during the budget crisis and stood up and said i'm going to invoke this, and everything happened that will happen, but this is what i believe. >> i'll tell you, i argued the same thing in the "washington post." dylan ratigan is not here, blew a gasket and offered his own
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brand of advice for the president. give us a listen and then reaction. >> what would you want him to do? >> i would like limb to go to the people of the united states of america and say, people of the united states of america your congress is bought. your congress is incapable of making legislation on health care, banking, trade or taxes, because if they do it, they will lose their political funding, and they won't do it, but i'm the president of the united states, and i won't have a country run by a bought congress. >> now, dylan obviously, howard, mad as hell the other day. tremendous pick upin the blogosphere and why doesn't obama talk something like that? >> i'd have to talk to the president and really get to the it, but telling people to call your congressman is not qualifying for leadership for me, and there comes a point when congress is not going to support him. i mean, he can -- save the
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children from going over a cliff and they will criticize him. you have to understand, it's the world we live in. he has to stand up and say, here's the world we live in. open the kimono and tell the truth about this congress and how these things that they're voting for, how these provisions they're putting in laws are hurting the average american. i put a rant on facebook a couple weeks ago with howard biehl from network, the i'm mad as hell and not going to take it. i'm frustrated as a small business owner, it wasn't the budget deal that caused the credit rating to go down. it was the process and they're part of the process. if they don't understand these lines in the sand and intractability does not hurt us, does not cost us more, does not ruin our 401(k)s, scare the environment, knock people off health care they shouldn't be serving. he's got to start saying that, telling the truth and getting away from the crap that has passed for politics. >> briefly, howard, only a
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minute or so left peep want to play a short piece from david cameron comparison styles in the crisis now. listen to that and get a quick reaction. >> in the minority the criminals who have taken what they can get i say this, we will track you down, we will find you, we will charge you, we will punish you. you will pay for what you have done. >> literally, just about 20 seconds, howard, but quite a stern posture it seem. hats your take? >> i thought it was leaderly and did something amazing. talked to parliament three hour. we would nerve doer that. our political consultants wouldn't let the president talk for three hour. it's not going to test, there's not enough sound bites in respect come as moment for leadership and these next fews months are going to determine whether barack obama has it and whether he's going to be re-elected and now is his moment and i'm hoping he will get his voice back. >> all right. howard bragman, 15 minutes public relations, the


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