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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  August 17, 2011 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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out of our -- we know they buy access and influence through campaign contributions and the big payoffs on wall street and the oil industry, in the revolving door, so we've asked ed rendell to join us. he is a man who's gotten more done than most as a politician first at a philadelphia mayor, then as a pennsylvania governor, and as head of the democratic national committee. governor, obviously no politician is going to do this amendment. however, i literally, by good fortune, had a lobbyist who is one of the best in the country, writing a whole string of, and jimy williams asked him, can you write me this amendment? he said, yes. is there any sneism circumstance in which that would be heard? >> you're asking me, dylan?
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no question. because of the internet, an amendment like this has the ability to have real serious legs, so let me say parenthetically i was a pretty good fund-raiser. and the philadelphia daily news once when i came out in favor of the mccain-feingold finance limits said having him endorse finance is like havali baba endorse thievery. >> that's a wonderful piece of visibility for this conversation, very candid on your part in terms of not only your ability to raise money, but the power of that resource. >> no question, and it's dead wrong. you can shoot me up with sodium pentothal. i never made a decision bayed on
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how much somebody gave me. >> bhu assuming what you said is true -- >> it's still a terrible appearance. >> let's say you're the most honorable man in the world, you're never leveraged by the dependency on money, you have a distributed portfolio, so no one contributor can screw you, you're perfectly set up. >> no question, but how much of your time even, forget the morality. how much of your time, if you're a congressman or politician of any kind, taken up doing fund-raising that might be better utilizing aligns the interesting of every business in america. >> far too much, and that's particularly damning for congressmen who have to run every two years. literally they get elected in november. by january of their first year in congress, they're raising money again, but it's also not just that. for many people, the special interests, the ones who provide
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the money do dominate legislation. do you remember, dylan, back in 2008 when senator kennedy steered a minimum wage increase through the congress, we got the minimum wage increase, they didn't think we could get it, because president bush was president, but there were amendments put in by the special interests. congressmen put in amendments for the special interests that cost us $8.3 million in tax breaks, mostly for corporate and special interests. that's what's wrong with washington. >> let's be clear about something else. i was talking with david stockman yesterday from the reagan administration about this amendment, which he was very much obviously in favor of, but what we were saying was this -- even if we got 100 million of together on the internet and were able to do it, which i honestly think we can considering we both outlawed and legalized drinking with amendments, i would think we could do this, but beyond that, even if we pull this off,
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getting the money out of politics is the beginning. that's not the solution. that is like getting the alcoholic to stop drinking so we can deal with his broken home and lost job. correct? >> no question. but there's so many legislators, in my time as mayor and gover r governor, said, gosh, if we could vote in secret, i would vote for your proposal, because i know it's the right thing to do, but i can't do it. the other side will raise money on it and will kill me. that's why it's so important, so important to get the influence of money out of politics, because if you get the influence out of politics, we could get people who will vote their conscience, and i think that's extraordinarily important. you're right to say it's not the lobbyists. lobbyists can perform a very valuable function. >> not only that, but it's american to advocate your point of view, but it's the money that per vertebrae the entire process.
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i would be interested in jimy's draft. remember, if we did all public financing, and we could do that, for congress $4 million in a general election -- >> sure there's a million ideas. >> sure, but how do you take care of citizens united? because you've got to get rid of the independent expenditures as well. they've got to be limited and restricted in some ways, because if the candidates don't have to raise money, but if the special interests can weigh in, you know, with these -- >> of course -- just to update you. jimy is now consulting with a string of conservative constitutional scholars who agree that mondayy is a corrupting and toxic influence on the government in order to get better information to answer the question you just asked. >> that's a very important question. we can't leave that hanging out there or you'll find a way to pervert the system. mccain-feingold was a great
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idea. it has helped, but because all this special-interest money can go through the advocacy organizations, it didn't change things at all. >> let's bring this home to the streets and the glass towers, if we can, for a second. like this. everybody in america knows that industries' interests, whether it's energy and efficiency, health care and health, education and learning, investment or speculation, that the interests of the people in charge of these businesses are not aligned with what the people want. we spend more than anybody in the world on health care, but we don't have very good health. we're overweight, out of shape. we spend the second most of anybody in the world on education, which creates all these loans and financing for health care, health insurance, all these things which are profitable for a lot of people, but don't provide learning, don't provide health, et cetera. is the court misalignment of interests in every industry in america a result, or at least
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partially a result of the distorting influence of money in politics that create misaligned policies? >> it's partially a result. again, you can't visit all of the sins of the system on fund-raising, there are sins from ridge i had ideology, grover nor quist accident raise money for candidates. he just terrorizes congressmen, senators and legislators and governors. it's pathetic, and alan simpson, one of the first guys with the courage and tom coburn, to call him out a bit. >> which is kind of why i like those guys. >> me too. imtom coburn to stick around a long time. he's a good man and he has the interests of the country at heart. >> i couldn't agree more. it's between the difference between a capitalist and extractionist. you want to build value together or you want to pick people off. that's the only difference. >> no question. make no mistake about it the
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tenor of the times now, with people so disgusted with the congress and so disgusted with politics, it's a perfect time to move this amendment through. and it will catch the fancy of people, and everybody out there. 38% of american corporations pay no taxes. folks, how do you feel about that? ge, who made no -- >> and we bailed ge out with bond hurricanes that allowed them -- everybody knows this. that's the thing. via the last point and we'll say it again, this is all a pipe dream without the internet. >> no question. you won't get politicians and state legislators to do this on their own. you won't get a congressional movement on their own, but the internet can be the key here. you know, the internet is used for a lot of bad things. i'd like to see it used for a good thing, this could be it. >> it would be a test of the internet as a good thing system.
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simplgts a simplgts. >> and it's sore pont we can count on of all the eighth signature? >> my son will have to get me on there. let's roll. >> jimy is working on this all weekend. we'll get hopefully a draft we can work through the fall. >> my pleasure. coming up on this hour here, if we don't have enough to worry about, yes, an steroid is coming, armageddon. the ongoing threat to the global economy out of the upwhere it's a ballot of big bailouts and big ideas to fix a broken system. sound familiar? then there's the ongoing jobs crisis right here at home and the president's response. he'll see you in september. my doctor told me calcium
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they insist thinks a official event. >> the obama administration, this is not a campaign trip. >> right, no, it's not a campaign trip. i'm sure the president just had some frequent greyhound miles he had to burch. >> again, looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, obviously a campaign is under way, on our dime.
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that is a bus for the secret service. they bought itty the canadians. why would you buy a bus from americans with american money. whatever you would like to call it, president obama wraps up his tour with a town hall in illinois, but he's offered little if any concrete plan to restore prosperity to america. instead, he's saying those searching for a job ought wait until he gets back next month to offer a speech, and if it is just another policy speech, i know i don't want to hear it, and i'm pretty sure you don't. to trade our tax code and banking system that's depriving us of investment and incentivizing wild speculation. our wednesday megapanel, msnbc contributor "the washington post" editorial writer jonathan
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capehart, imogey, and mark tapscott, who imogen is made nervous by. at least mark is on remote. with that said, there any way that the president -- i hate to just make it on the president. the fact of the matter is, is there any way that any politics that continues to deny the underlies policy, its manipulation of the tax code, manipulation of the banking policies, any politician who continues to exist in denial of that obvious problem, how can they credibly lead america. mark? >> well, dylan, you know, i think we've had this discussion on this show many times before, and i've always pointed out what to me is the fundamental fact, the fundamental reality about money and politics. yes, it's corrupting, there's too much of it, et cetera, et cetera, but it's the effect not
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the cause of the problem. the cause of the problem is the money is going after too many favors from government, basis government is doing too many things. >> i know your argument. i'll disagree with you and let imogen and jonathan see each other over a cup of coffee and have a nice conversation instead of yelling like we do. the reason i disagree with you, mark, is you're saying a government that's too big is worth buying. as a result, we need a smaller government. i'm saying i disagree with that, because i believe a bought government of any size is a problem. just for clarity. >> i understand understand that. >> jonathan, create some civility for all of us. >> you know, you guys are actually arguing rather civilly right now. there's no -- unfortunately to
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solve ought those problems, it's going to require more thas one president, most than one congress to do those starts of things. and it will take courage. >> what if jimy williams' constitutional amendment was a bona fide amendment from a paid lobbyist circulating on the internet. we think that could impact -- >> i find this extraordinary, the campaign bus. our campaigns in the uk, every 4 to 5 years, they last a month, all in total they cost all political parties $50 million for that month. >> who pays for that? >> fund raised. >> states. >> no, private. >> so still bought, just not as big. >> also they four or -- >> still bought, though. >> four or five years to make
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their decisions on their own. good thing you are talking about this absolutely moving forward as jonathan was saying. we're not going to see this before the 2012 election. >> i'll let you know when jimy williams gets that amendment and we'll talk about it. can you give me a high-five? >> absolutely why? >> jonathan, mark, did you guys hear this, that syria, the crackdown is over? imogen and i were celebrating. >> let freedom ring. >> the freedom bell is ringing. the only way i can see a crackdown ending in syria is because they've killed everybody, so now it's over, so they allowed a change in the government, yet neither thing happened. i can't reconcile this statement. >> obviously we don't know fundamentally we don't know. we don't have the media inside syria. it's all, as clinton was talking about, with what's happening, it's very important that the pressure from the near
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neighbors. >> so you're saying the stakes are with saudi arabia and turkey to make peace in syria? >> well, to move things forward, absolutely. >> how much political risk does the president have by ignoring what's going on because of the intensity he has to deal with here from debt to jobs? >> i can tell you one thing for slur, the reason there is a pause is simply because they're reloading. >> terrible. >> they're reloading. >> the problem for obama in syria is that it demonstrates as vividly as i think as possible the ineffectiveness of his idea of smart power. if smart power worked, he would have at least said something and at least tried to do something to help those poor people that were being literally mowed down.
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>> is that fair? his 'so buried, there's a certainly point where separate much any president is spent. >> remember when he got the united states involved as much as it is involved in libya, a lot of critics were asking, what exactly is the american interests on the ground there in libya? and i think if that's the question there, then it really is going to be a question in syria. now, that's not to, you know, denigrate or downplay just how important syria is or pivotal it is in the middle east, but i think the president would be hard-pressed to go to the american people and say, here's what i'm going to do? syria, and this is why it's important to the united states, something very public. when it comes to international affairs, there are a lot of things that happen out of camera view, out of public view that
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are done, and they either come out later on, or come out concurrently. you read about it on wikileaks, but i would be very surprised if the state department and admission we aren't doing things behind the scenes under the close of secrecy to try to push assad out. >> maybe without a sideshow, fundamentally what's going on with the victory, syria, egypt and iran are what matters. fundamentally i think it comes down to what are we doing in libya? we should have been concentrating on syria, egypt and iran. >> so we're stuck? a sideshow that's preventing is from dealing with the real problem? >> i have no idea -- >> no, no, all along i have no idea what we're doing there. >> why are we predicting friend oil interests. >> have you seen the euro zone recently? >> what is europe as largest economy plan. the panel stays, and the
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economies in europe, with a lot to lose and gain. they are mad as le across the atlantic, too. and you know we are today, on dylan did the, my personal response toss your e-mails about the anger with america's corrupt political system. we all well jerusalem your feedback and our ability to form a group, as we are useless individually. take all these e-mails. we put them on this and on facebook or twitter. we'll get the amendment out to the folks on those web addresses as soon as we have it. we're back after this. [ groans ] you okay?
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the europeans, you know your european friends, or maybe you don't like them, i don't care, you know who they are, will they
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be forced into doing the same thing we've been doing? prisoning trillions of euros. to bail out everyone from italy to greece, the same as we've been printing money to bail out everyone from homeowners to banksters. and how long will the world tolerate the debasement of this money printing before something significant that we don't want to deal with like a bypass currency from saudi arabia, china, it could be worse, believe me. let's not forget the french and adjourn bank -- the numbers tell the story. germany, one of the biggest economies in the world in stall mode.
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as trillion continue to be presented to sponge up the effects of i don't think going schemes to cover up old gambling debts. all of this how do we do this? inside and editor of the business insider, is that a fair portrayal? >> europe is a train wreck. you portray it well, there will be no happy end iing. >> let's stop right there. we've got all this debt, we know we have the dead. we watch imogen in greece, the riots with the republican plan and the democrat plan. at world ward ii, we canceled the debt, we had to release prosperity and release the globe.
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after the civil war in america, canceled the south's debt, because we couldn't unburden those people, if we wanted to have one country. same thing with latin america in the 1980s. at the same time we do not -- we could even have this -- i don't understand why this conversation is not everywhere. >> because the bankers have convinced the world if you even consider that, the world will en. >> but that's a lie. >> i couldn't agree more. >> if everybody believes that. >> tell everybody why that's a lie. >> the idea that even if you suggest that the bankers will have to take a -- we will have another financial crisis all over again. >> but that's not true, if you were to know, lie cancer, know what the problem is. in world war ii, they said we
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better take a meeting, marshall plan, brent and woods, we are in that place again. do you think the people on the streets of europe have a better understanding of where we are in the picture of world history than the americans do? >> of course what is happening is there's still democracy in europe and you have the european populations becoming more and more increasingly euro-skeptic. fundamentally i think the euro could still absolutely collapse, and we are going to be looking, as you're saying, at absolute crisis restructure point. we haven't reached it yet. >> it's interesting. what would be so bad, because obviously in england they still use the pound. >> yes. >> you are anti-euro? >> i am, always have been. i never got it. >> so, listen, what is to prevent the french from going back to their currency, the
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italians to theirs? in other words, why do we have to go through this chicanery and why can't england? >> nobody n explain it. >> thank you. >> everyone says the world is going to end, it's terrible, we can't consider it. obviously the idea is unification giving europe more leverage. we work together to further our own interests. >> but the euro zone is the world's second largest economy put together. >> but the restructurings after world war ii and others, they just ended the world of the bankers collecting a bunch of money for debts that were fabricated in the first place. they didn't, and the world they released incredible prosperity. jonathan, are you there? >> yeah, i'm here. >> come on in here. >> i have a question for henry. let's say the euro zone does completely collapse, and that the euro goes out the window --
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>> we're spending lira. >> and i would love that. >> wouldn't that be awesome? >> it would make things a lot cheaper, ties and things. what would that mean -- what would that mean for the dollar? what would that mean for the american economic? what would it mean for the dla are? and what would it mean for americans in general if the second largest economy in the world basically collapsed? >> i think what's becomes clear is that it isn't actually the second largest economy, because it's not completely it's discrete economies with budgets, problems and strengths and weaknesses. >> people. >> it hasn't worked, because we haven't taken the final step where german taxpayers will pay for greek spending and everything else. obviously it would depend how it was broken up, if it's done in a carefully planned way. >> like treating a cancer patient. >> exactly. maybe it's not such a big deal if it's allowed to collapse,
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then you could have huge problems. >> the problem with the tea party is not that they're misidentifying, it's that they found out their wife has cancer and they want to grab a kitchen knife and cut it out. they don't want to understand it. why are you coming at me with a knife when i found out i had cancer? go ahead, mark. >> that's at least a better analogy than calling them terrorists. >> they're not terrorists. they accurately observed the problem and they're so freaked out, they grab a knife and try and stab you. >> henry, i'm curious, you haven't said anything in this discussion about the role, if any of the european entitlement state. what about that? >> well, again, it's a question of whether it's pan-european or each particular country. obviously the attempts do corral it in greece and so forth are simply not working. you can't -- austerity doesn't
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work as a way of paying back the debt, so you've got to break it down country by country. the issue right now is we don't have the fiscal unification of it's impossible to do it. >> you hit on this, imogen, the euro zone was a bangsterr if -- bankster, if you're going to use my word, that didn't necessarily reflect the culture and reality of the human beings that live in that part of the earth. >> the problem is they often don't pay their taxes. in germany everyone does. you travel through europe, you know it's never going to work. a union like that will never work. fundamentally i always thought it was a silly idea. >> the condesense is good with a british accent, brutal. pleasure to see you both. jonathan and mark, thank you for playing along so nicely on
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remote and making this conversation better. i appreciate it. mark and jonathan. up next, armageddon, not economic, that's kind of a pretend thing they use. this armageddon, just a movie. [ female announcer ] feel the love! in 44 shades that love your lips to perfection. lip perfection from covergirl. a lip color with with silk moisturizing complex that leaves lips smoother in 7 days. what a feeling! lip perfection from covergirl.
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the whole point of the mission is to see if we can divert the path. still ahead, one man's decades-long quest. ♪ mona lisa ♪ mona lisa ♪ men have named you ♪ you're so like the lady with the mystic smile ♪ don't get eno. so here's five bucks to help you buy v8 juice. five bucks. that's a lot of green. go to for coupons. you can count on us. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion.
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mona lisa is simply the most important painting in the world. >> this is the story of the greatest little known art theft in history. i may not know this, but 100 years ago -- i didn't know this -- somebody stole the most famous painting in the history of the world. my next guest spent 34 years of his life trying to figure out why someone would steal the "mona lisa" and keep it for two years in their bedroom. joining us joe maderos, currently working on "the misting piece" his piece on have i chenzo 'perugia's theft.
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>> my italian grandmother would be horrified. what led you to do this, and more importantly, how did this guy steal the painting? and why did he bring it back? >> what do you want to know first? >> what we need to know most. >> vicenzo had worked at the louvre. he was brought there to help protect the paintings by cover them with glass. he worked for the company that did the glazing -- there was a lot of vandalism, so the louvre said we'll cover them with glass. he was brought in. they covered 1600 plasterpieces with glass. he was an italian immigrant living in paris, and you know how immigrants are often treated -- >> poorly. >> -- he's looking at this art
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and wondering how did it get into louvre. >> i'm in france, why is italian art here? i don't even like these french people. >> that is correct -- >> not me, him. >> right. he asked his french superior, who was kind of like, he smirked. he didn't give him the answer. so one day he's looking through a book and sees that napoleon had raided all the art and took it from italy when he conquered the country. >> 1,000 years before? >> a hundred years earlier. >> right, of course. so perugia, says all this is stolen, if i return one of these to italy. >> which gives him justification to the psychological framing, which he essentially believes he's getting it back. napoleon took it, and i'm getting it back. >> we all know that it's not a crime to steal something that's stolen. >> is that true?
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>> i don't know. so vicenzo keeps -- how does he get it out of the building? or do we have to watch the movie? >> i'll tell you. it's in a lot of books. it's fairly simple. he walked in on a monday dressed as a workman, when the museum was closed. there isn't the security that i had to get into this building like this building. >> well, this is nbc news -- >> not much to steal here, i guess. he walks into the louvre, and he basically takes the mona lisa off the wall, into a staircase, removes it from the frame. it's a piece of wood, 21 by 30 inches take off his smock, wrapping it around. >> walk out with a board. >> gets on a bus -- gets on the wrong bus, has to jump eve -- >> that might have thrown them off his tail. >> i don't think he was that smart. >> speaking of not being that
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smart. after stealing the board and a blanket that happened to be a mona lisa on a monday, two years later he brings it back? >> no, no, he brings it to italy. two years later he tries to get it to florence. >> right. >> what's going on there? this is the completion of the return. >> he wanted to return it for patriotic reasons, he said, so he got in touch with an article dealer in florence name alfredo jetty, and alfredo looked at this, and goes, the guy wants to sell me the mona lisa. because perugia had written a couple other letters, so yetty goes, well, if i respond to this, who knows, maybe it's the real thing, and what did he have to lose. so he wrote him, perugia shows up, he hands it over to the gallery, the great art museum in florence, and they said thank you very much, and you're under arrest. >> let's look at a clip.
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>> i was hoping she could tell me her father's mott i have, but she wanted that answer. i told her i would try to find it. [ speaking foreign language ] >> that's all she wants. >> the truth. >> that is his daughter? >> his one and only child. >> what did she think about her father's escapades? >> it's an interesting story. i first found out about the theft when i was 25 years old, which was a long time ago, 1976, i read a sentence in a book about da vinci, that perugia had stolen the painting. >> it took me until i was 39, if it makes you feel better. >> that's okay. ipted to write a screenplay about it. there was a low of information about the theft, very little about him. to do is a screenplay i have had to 345ik things up.
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and i'm from philadelphia, what do i know about a dead italian? >> more than some me. >> when i tried to make up stuff, it sounded. 30 years later, i'm googles his name and up pops an article about his daughter. i figured she could give me the truth about her father. it turns out she knew less than i did, because he died when she was a year and a half old. so the film becomes my quest to find the truth not only for my curiosity, but to sort of close the book for her. >> the perception of the honorable narrative of the thief, how did the italian people look at it? did anybody else see it his way? was he a cult hero, like d.b.
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cooper is in america? how was he perceived in the general population? >> no, no, it was a huge story. >> did they like it that he did this? >> he became somewhat of a hero, somewhat of a folk hero, but people discounted his reason for doing it. you know, it was a tense political time between france -- italy was on the side of germany at that point right before world war i, so the italian government doesn't want too trumpet up this nationalistic feeling, and so did the french, to their credit. they just wanted to -- >> calm the crowd, get the mona lisa back and sweep it under the rug. >> move on. >> and the one who championed his cause was actually a psychiatrist, because his defense team, like they do today, bring in the psychiatrist, he's crazy. in our research we found out
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maybe he wasn't as mentally -- >> the good tricks never die. >> no, they do. >> joe medeiros, the film "the missing piece." i think you probably have a decent sense of what it's about. i'm certainly intrigued. hopefully interesting for you as well. coming up on "hardball," chris talking with jared bernstein about all the you know what. but first ari mel burn is in another nation, james bond live from london, after this. beneful healthy fiesta. gotta love the protein for muscles-- whoo-hoo! and omega-rich nutrition for that shiny coat. ever think healthy could taste so good? [ woman announcing ] new beneful healthy fiesta.
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all right. now with his thoughts and our complicated relationship with political compromise, international ranter ari melber. >> thanks, dylan. you know last week an appeals court invalidated the core of obama's health care law. some of us upheld it, look, the supreme court is probably going to have the last word here, but the legal trouble facing the health care act reveals unexpected risks of blind compromise as a legislate i have strategy. it discredits this nonsense media narrative that every compromise is automatically pragmatic. back when it passed, many experts touted it as a grand compromise. remember that? pundits said liberals didn't get what they wanted, a larger government role, all those tea party town halls didn't achieve their -- now, remember, a public
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option would have created -- and expanding medicare would have covered millions of americans. when democrats backed down, however, the so-called compromise actually changed the fundamental approach to reforming health care. the final bill only relied on private corporate insurance, and forced people to buy that insurance in order to widen the market and cut costs. still not a single republican voted for it. after it passed, they rushed to court arguing -- remember this -- they rushed to court arguing the law was unconstitutional because of the insurance mandate. this point has gotten lost in most of the coverage, but precisely the model that conservatives are now using to destroy the health care act in court. meanwhile, the discart the proposals would never face this kind of legal limbo, because they're backed by rock-solid
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precedence. after all, the government already provides health care right now to 25% of the flation. but here's what irks me. to this day, political commentators still talk about how president obama was pragmatic on health care and the liberal were wow unrealistic. it's this private sector compromise that's hanging by a thread, and you know, the ones favoredly the liberals, the bloggers, the policy wonks that remain popular and legally bulletproof. democrats have already made their choice to experiment with private sector solutions instead of building on the new deals more tested and popular programs, but what's clear to me is democratic compromises made under the guise of practicality turn out to be pretty impractical and maybe self-defeating. >> or a more cynical interpretation is the two parties are bought by the health
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insurance industry, max baucus is bought just as sure as the republicans, and they give the shah raids, the reality is they are paid off by the drug companies, the health insurance companies and all the rest of them to make a law that is the most profitable in history with a forced mandate into an unreformed monopoly. how about that? >> right. if you believe that, and you and i have talked repeatedly about the stranglehold that money has on politics, particularly this congress, then we still need to take a step back and remember that compromising with financial bullies in this case does not mean that you're being pragmatic. it just means -- >> or for that matter a compromise between two people that are bought. if the democrat is bought and the republican is bought, and we're like making a compromise! take a picture! and they're both bought. it makes you want to puke. speaking of things that make you sick, anything on rupert murdoch? >> that has been the big story
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here. i guard "the guardian" paper. what you have here is a smoking gun that's still hot. a her that's gotten a lot of attention here, that was originally written in 2007 from a former news corp. employees alleging more widespread hacking and high-level knowledge. everyone knows thinks crimes occurred. the question is high how did it go. to be fair that her is by someone accused of these crimes and involved in them, so it's not your clearest -- >> they have an ax to grind, right. >> but a big deal. >> the implication, though, with the accusation from someone with a potential ax to grind is that hacks people's phones is a normal part of the editorial discourse, the same way we have a 9:30 meeting, should we book ari, can we get this one? what about this?
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what about the debt? this asserts in the news corporation, and i don't know about elsewhere, they go, well, can we hack ari's phone? maybe we should hack the president. that's the suggestion of the familiarate of this process, correct in that's right. you get the feeling in meetings this was more of a cover-up, and also allegations of hush money. both those things were denied by both murdochs in their last testimony. >> ari, thank you very much. i loved your rant, and i didn't mean to one-up it by saying they're all bought. i'm simply saying i agree with you, and it's even worse because they're all bought. i look forward to seeing you in new york, where the show is better with ari melber in it. we're thank much to have him. i'm dylan ratigan, and "hardball" with chris mast thews is up now.


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