tv Martin Bashir MSNBC October 25, 2011 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
perry? >> it is supposed to be taxation tuesday for rick perry. the moment when he reveals his plans for a flat tax for all americans. i'm afraid we must start with the candidate who is smoking up the charts. the got father himself, herman cain. in a brand-new "new york times" poll leads with a full quarter of voters, cruising past mitt romney's 21%. just weeks ago, the two were tied at 17%. the cain train is not only driving the polls, but pushing the gop in terms of policy and influencing the other candidates, jumping on the 9-9-9 bandwagon, the flat tax is the centerpiece of rick perry's plan as announced in the battle ground state of south carolina. today the cain campaign has everyone a twitter.
not about taxes, but tobacco as featured in a new web ad. take a look. >> we have run a campaign like no one has seen and america has never seen a candidate like herman cain. together we can do this and take this country back. . >> the somewhat disheveleds smoker in question is mark block, cain's campaign manager and a man with a smoking gun of his own. block is otherwise known for his in a voter suppression scheme in milwaukee for which he was banned from politics for three years and fined $15,000 for violating campaign laws. that disenfrance chizing college students and african americans was during the tenure as american for prosperity. a group with ties to yes, the
infamous coke brothers. the americans for prosperity foundation is chaired by billionaire conservative david coke himself. the main man herman cain traveled the country and speaking on behalf of the pro corporate anti-government group. you might take a wild guess as to who would benefit most from the tax plan? could it be billionaires? let's bring our panel now from analyst alex wagner and joining us from washington, analyst alex. eight out of ten voters are not sure who they should go with. the accidental nominee. >> it is entirely possible and not terrifying. the gop voters are undecided and herman cain is a flash in the pan, but had staying power.
there was a desire to elect someone with fire. i call it the fruit loops theory. they have a choice between wheaties and fruit loops which is herman cain. they want someone with appeal and certainly herman with the first african-american nominee. >> even though it will give him diabetes. that disheveled smoker has a sinister past. these were behind it. >> he was? >> the smoking man behind every experience theory. he ran wisconsin branch of americans for prosperity when they were caught in the last recall election running a voter suppression scheme back in 1997. he was basically kicked out of the wisconsin politics for three years and fined $15,000 for
violating election state law by coordinating independent expenditures with a contest for a state judge. >> he sounds perfectly qualified to run herman cain's campaign. >> and he smokes which is irrelevant because herman cain when he ran the national restaurant association, the nra, a different nra it was considered to be an off shoot of big tobacco. he kept lobbying on behalf of big tobacco again and again. there is a real tobacco past in herman cain's own career. >> you agree with that? >> we're focused on the pizza and pepperoni part of his bio, the lobbyist part is significant. this is someone that has worked against raising the minimum wage and worked against lowering the
blood alcohol level. >> what are about the influence the brothers behind him. the politics are ongoing today. the coke brothers had in effect from the platform for the country's other party, the republican party. oil refinery interests dictating the policy of the gop. >> americans for prosperity and they try to go to the tea party and they funded many of the climate change denialists. governor scott walker was beyond the anti-union bill and an interesting thing with mother jones.com. there was a loophole in the wisconsin law that allows governor walker in this campaign to not be recalled to accept as
much unlimited money as he can gather so the coke brothers want to keep him in power, they can give him anything. sky is the limit. you suggesting the smiling face of herman is being manipulated from the power of the coke brothers? >> she in league with them and beyond that smiling face is mr. smoker there. the 9-9-9 plan is almost every conceivable analysis except that of herman cain would lower taxes for the super rich and raise them on everybody else making up to about 150 to $200,000. >> i understand you own the domain name. it's the 9-9-9 plan. i am willing to will sell it for a market-determined price or to
mitt romney or rick santorum or rick perry or anyone else with an interest. including a dog eating pizza with a human hand. >> you have also got other interesting graphs up. this showing the recent tax policy center analysis of herman cain's plan. look at how taxes plunge for the wealthiest as we expected, but they go absolutely rocketing for the rest of us. >> i know. it's really a good deal for the coke brothers. it's a good deal for mitt rom me and herman and for the president. those of us making less than $200,000, you may have to pay a little bit more. within the republican party, people like mitt rom me and rick santorum was attacking herman cain for a plan that would raise taxes on the middle class. the longer he stays at the top of the gop heap, we will see
class warfare attacks from other republicans. >> isn't there also a fight to simplicity and a fight to make the system of fiscal economics as sim liftic as possible. we had 9-9-9 and the flat tax. >> the candidates are running on sound bites. both the american public that they are willing to dedicate to policies and prescriptions and the issues. the media is at fault and candidates are playing to that. say what you will about the plan, the guy is thought through. at the same time that will be the basis of it. that shouldn't be the basis of the criticism. >> what were you saying? >> 59 points? listen, if there is a war of simple going on in the republican party here, i can do basic math. 9-9-9 adds up to 27 and rick
perry adds up to 40. right away rick perry lost the war. >> plafr of the month, black walnut ice cream or a candidate for president? >> i believe and i have to think it's flavor of the month. he's coming out with a foreign policy speech. >> that will be hilarious for u becky becky becky stan. david? >> i think the 30-minute delivery time on herman cain is about to run out. >> thank you so much for joining us. >> mr. cain still on top and mr. perry sinking like a stone. what's a candidate to do? >> i don't have a clue about where the president and what this birth certificate says. it's also a great strategy. [ female announcer ] dance cooking? bring it.
to accompany the launch of a flat tax proposal, the interview didn't stick to fiscal policy. instead perry took the opportunity to repeat his comments on president obama's birth certificate. >> mitt romney after the president released his birth certificate earlier this year said that issue is done and settled and i accept it. you chose to keep it alive in your interview with parade magazine. why did you do that? >> it's a good issue to keep alive. donald has to have some fun. >> right. so a potential presidential candidate revives a bogus story about the study so his billionaire friend can have a
laugh? rick perry was just getting started. >> you are saying that your comments about that are a joke or do you seriously have an unresolved question that donald trump has about this? >> i don't have a clue about where the president and what this birth certificate says. but it's also a great distraction. >> distraction? yes, i guess it is. a political calculation to distract voters from his debate appearances. to distract them from his campaign that has seen him collapse in the polls. approximate won't work. this distraction will not change the course of his campaign. we know it and he knows it and even karl rove knows it. >> you associate yourself with a nutty view like that and you damage yourself. don't associate yourself when w this nutty group. >> for more on this i am joined by sheila jackson lee, a democrat from the state of
texas. good afternoon. >> a pleasure to be with you. how are you this afternoon? >> i'm interested in how you react to rick perry reviving this issue of the president's birth certificate. >> there a lot of us from texas who love our state and believe our state is a progressive, forward thinking state of many diverse people or enormously disappointed in governor perry for his lack of recognition that what is funny in the state of texas or the back rooms of austin politics are not funny on the national arena when you are seeking to represent the entire united states of america. to have a presidential candidate use the words not a clue is disingenuous and frightening. no one wants to have someone's hands on the red phone that said they don't have a clue. president obama's birth certificate is in the public
domain. it indicates that he was born in hawaii. there is no way in the world you could not have a clue what is going on with respect to the president of the united states. everyone has put that to rest. it is not a joke. it is an insult. karl rove for the first time. i agree with him. you distance yourself from it immediately and as you distance yourself away from the issuance of a state-issued confederate flag. you say this is not the time to move forward with respect to the birther issue. you say it is done and over. i respect the president of the united states as a united states citizen. that's leadership and seeking to become the president of the united states whether i agree with your campaign or not. we are sorely disappointed in the image it is presenting for the people of texas. >> are we seeing a pattern? you mentioned the license plate
with the confederate flag and the name of his hunting lodge and now the citizenship of the current president of the united states who happens of course to be mixed race. is there a pattern here? >> i think there is a pattern of the lack of seriousness in the focus on one's campaign and the high level stakes is involved in. seeking the presidency of the united states is an enormous responsibility. for example, what is mr. perry's assessment as it relates to foreign affairs. we have seen major high dollar targets if you will succumb to the work of our national security community and the united states military and president barack obama. do we have the confidence that governor perry would ascend to the leadership if you do not
present yourself in a serious manner and apt to make jokes and if you don't get a profound station and i'm not suggesting you stand before the world on a podium, but if you don't reject the inhead rock that we can understand that you reject it and were appalled and distance yourself from it or you give a profound statement about the lack of credibility of a confederate issued license plate regardless of the history preservation, that can be done in museums and private homes, if you don't distance yourself in the commander confederate organization that said people need to move on. then you are creating an atmosphere when you move into the general election if you are elected by the primary voters that you are not a serious candidate representing the people of the united states that are increasingly diverse and we are proud of that. the soldiers that will come home
from iraq will be a very diverse group who were willing to sacrifice lives for america. governor perry doesn't understand that. >> you are familiar with govern nor perry and texas politics. do you think this is just the beginning of what we are going to hear from this man? do you think this will be even more -- how can i say it? retro grade as far as the arguments are concerned? >> we wish the best for fellow texans, but we have not seen evidence of an ascending campaign. we have seen the contrary. in texas our governor took $3 billion stimulus dollars for our schools. rural areas and urban areas and put it in a rainy day fun. he is one of the leading closers of the minority school districts, one in particular, the school district is on the
ropes because of his intent to close it even though it was under state leadership for two years. that's a complicated process whose parents and community are fighting to keep it. we have not been able to get his attention. if he understands how brought of a responsibility governing the united states will be and whether you are a republican president or a democratic president, referring to governor bush who understood and became president and he understood the value of diversity and we have seen that in republicans and democrat. we don't know if he understands how america is today and what the president will be expected to do and how he will be expected to lead. >> thank you for your thoughts and thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> much more ahead including his call to relieve the burden on america's millionaires and
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>>. >> an offensive political distraction. here are today's top lines. >> together we can do this. we can take this country back. mitch connell said saving the jobs of teachers and firefighters were a bailout. these aren't bad actors who screwed up the economy. they didn't act irresponsibly. these are the men and women who teach our children. >> i want y'all to be the first to get this right. 9-9-9 has always been the plan. we always had a provision in terms of dollars for those at or below the poverty level.
>> doesn't make any difference what strata you are in. it gives a tax cut across the board. >> it is hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars. >> i don't care about that. what i care about is them having the dollars to invest in their companies. >> on the cover of parade magazine, suggestively offering the nation his nipple. parry wee had a bunch of regulators, i would fire the regulators. i don't know if you can fire them or not because of the federal laws. if you are looking for someone who said we are not going to do that and it will all work out, i'm not your guy. >> i always like to hear your top lines on twitter. next up, taxes according to rick perry. >> this is a change election. i offer a plan that changes the
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>> herman cain's 9-9-9 plan has politicians scratching their heads, but mr. perry offered his own flat tax idea. see if you can follow this. he calls it cut balance and grow. it offers you a choice between paying your current rate or a flat tax of 20%. perry would slash the rate to 20% and offer an opt out of social security in younger workers and perry wants to cap government spending at a rate of 18% of gross domestic product. confused? don't despair. perry has the news we have been waiting for. >> the best representation in my
plan is this postcard. this is the size of what we are talking about right here. taxpayers will be able to fill this out and file their taxes on that. we have professor jeffrey sax, columbia university and the author of the price of civilization. professor, can you help me understand this? first of all, how does a nation run two taxations simultaneously. a flat tax and you can keep your existing tax. >> remember what governor perry said that was reputed saying i want to make the federal government as inconsequential to the american people as possible. whether it's perry or cain, they want a gut for the tax system.
we are not going to collect much at all. you issue are allowed to choose what you have or opt out. we can gut the system if you bring down tax rates or end tax rates on capital gapes. they don't care. they plan to gut the government entirely. they are backed by the richest people in the world is to end taxation so that 1 k also end government itself. every number in this fails to add up. there is absolutely nothing in this for the average person except disaster. >> we will be seeing images in south carolina at a press conference. one of the things that is clear about this tax as i understand it, it will both exacerbate the differentials of wealth and ensure the wealthiest people pay
much less tax. >> it is designed to. this is the whole republican party. cain and perry are the two most extreme examples, but the entire party and funders like the coke brothers are totally designed to tell the american people it's okay. we don't need government. we don't need a department of education. we don't need energy policy and an environmental policy. we don't need labor market policy. we don't need job training. everything will be fine. cut the taxes of the rich and everything will be fine. anyone that believes this nonsense after 30 years of the dismal failure of this kind of idea to deliver anything but wealth at the top and disaster for those at the bottom needs to open their eyes. >> do you think rick perry looked at existing countries where there is flat tax? i discovered a number of eastern
european nations after the fall of the soviet union. his lithuania in 2004 lost 360,000 workers and left the country because the flat tax burden was horrendous. >> rick perry did not research about lithuania and no other country before he hits. >> the brussels newspaper finds that the tax burden is more burden some than on those with progressive systems. those are the facts. >> if you gut the taxes at the top and the capital gains taxation and bring down the rates, if you make it up, you make it up at the bottom. that's obvious. you make it up by closing down education and closing down infrastructure and health care.
when you look at the 18% ceiling and go through the numbers quickly, social security about 5% of gnp. medicare and medicate total about 6%. veterans benefits and food stamps another couple percent. we are up to 13%. military is 5%. that's 18%. let's add on interest payments on the debt and that takes us to about 21% and we haven't even started with education environment and national science. the ju sishl system and the penal system and anything we need to be and secure and the poor? we don't give them any at all. that's what started with the budget earlier this year.
social security, forget it. we squeeze that. medicare, don't count on it. this is absolutely a ploy to try to break the back of government when we need government for education to help people get back to work. i'm talking about an education system that begins to work with science and technology in this country. infrastructure that is not broken down where you wait for hours on highways. we have a 50-year-old highway system. they want to gut the whole thing. >> we will stay with you. stay where you are. we will be back with you in a moment. is rick perry's tax plan serious or a serious gift to the super rich in the country? john har wood asked about it and you may be surprised at his respon response. we will be back in a moment. tie,
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>> right now, governor rick perry is talking up his flat tax plan in south carolina. still with us is jeffrey sacks from columbia university and contributor and editorial writer for "the washington post." we were talking now and will keep an eye on rick perry. professor sacks, we were talking about 9-9-9. cain's plan. we looked at the idea of a platt tax and mi9-9-9 is as ludicrous. >> at the same time it would transfer the burden from the top to the bottom through the higher sales taxes, for example. >> given that's the case, why is herman cain running away with the polls? why is he so popular if his policies according to people like yourself who have expertise in the area are regarded as
nonsense? >> i don't think it will last, but he is back by david coke and big money. >> we are going to listen to rick perry. he is being asked about his birther comments. >> who is going to lay out a plan to get america working again. i gave confidence to job creators that they know for a fact that i they will be able to risk there capital and have a return on their investment and know they will be losing jobs because of regulations that are killing these jobs all across the country. that's what americans are looking for and what we are going to stay focused on. >> mostly the wealthiest -- >> here's what we are interested in getting americans back working. folks who have money will be creating the jobs that i don't have a problem in the world with that. i think that is very, very
important that we focus on getting americans back to work. when you put a flat tax of 20% in place on a certainly standpoint and a 20% flat tax in place for corporate, that is the type of confidence that americans are looking for. when they see a president will pull back the regulations that has been put in place since 2008 that are killing jobs whether it's the epa or whatever agency it may be, they understand that here is a president that is committed to job creation. it doesn't make any difference who creates the jobs. whoever is sitting at home watching this around the kitchen table or reads it in the newspaper tomorrow, they are interested in having the dignity of taking care of their family. that's what we will focus on every day. >> they recommend spending to 18% of gdp.
to impose that today and spending at 24% and spending cuts at $1 trillion in one year, the super committee is having trouble getting it over ten years. be specific about the trillions of dollars in cuts. >> what we are talking about doing is having a balanced budget by 2020. this plan does that. we will release a report on thou get that done. it's not that we will do it all in one year. we will do it over a period of the next years and 2020 is the target that we are focused in on. i don't have a problem in the world by saying that we will have the budget balanced by 2020 and we will travel across the country and pass a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. i will give you one example of how i lay out $100 billion that
we will have in spending cuts on nondefense discretionary spending. that is the type of dollar we can cut out. you can take the secondary and elementary department of education programs that are in d.c. and cut them in half and that will save $25 billion in year. that is the issue americans are looking for, not to get bogged down to what's it going to be at year one. how are we going to get americans back to work and how are we going to have a business balanced budget by 2020. my plan does that. this is real and substantive changes in the tax code and real and substantive on the spending and the tax side that deals with entitlements. it is across the board where the americans can get back in the job creators and have the confidence that they can risk capital and have a chance to have a return on investment.
>> [inaudible]. they offer a flat tax and why do you think -- [inaudible] . >> i happen to think when americans look at what happened, there is a lot to change from the standpoint of our tax code in the country. we have almost $15 trillion worth of debt. you have obama care. you have dodd frank. you have section 404 and i would repeal all of that. those are job killers. the regulatory side of the world is hammering the job creation. yes, it's important to get the taxes under control and have a tax system this is fair and simple and flat. i mean how many people in america would rather have the old tax system in place and the lawyers and the accountants? it's almost $850 billion a year that we spend on taking care of
the taxes today. let's do it on a postcard. let's do it this way. also to pull these regulations back that are killing jobs in america. that's what people care about. they want a president who will stand up and say here is how we are going to get america back to work. we have done that in the 15th largest economy in texas over the past decade. america is looking for a president who has a proven track record and the courage to do what this plan says. >> can you give us a postcard-sized answer on how your plan compared to the 9-n 9 plan and newt gingrich's plan. >> herman's plan doesn't have a value tax and a national sales tax. that's the biggest difference right there. americans do not trust
washington, d.c. to have a new form of taxation. what they are looking for is simplicity and something that is flat. something that is fair. this plan addresses all of those. i think when you look at what we are talking about here from the stand point of getting americans confident and if there is a tax plan in place that will take care of their tax needs, if you will, this postcard is the way to do it. >> talking about making it option, does that add another layer? you look at the business that has for so many years and use the old system whether it was on a host of different issues and appreciations or whatever it is in the old system and you are locked into it. you think for your best interest to continue to use all the lawyers and use all the accountants in your best
interest, but for the people who don't need that and want that, this is the way to go. >> you feel pretty good about your prospects in south carolina. by the time you announced in south carolina, the recent poll shows you at 9%. what happened? >> i always said the polls will go up and down. my bet is that when clemson or south carolina are at halftime and it doesn't happen often, but they are behind and they are not going to call the game at halftime. we will continue to work and we may change defense a little bit. the fact is that this long time campaign is over with and we will talk about things like this. we got in this race late. we laid out over the last two weeks a plan on energy and job
security from that standpoint and security of the energy and a tax plan about growth and controlling spending. americans will look at it and say that's where we want to go. he has the record of doing it in the state of texas and that's the kind of president we want. >> more question. >> in south carolina, what are y'all talking about? >> as a general rule we keep our conversations private, but we talk a lot about the campaign and talked about the first time he had the chance to see the tax plan. you will have to ask him how much he likes it, but i have to suggest to you that he understands the idea of having simplicity. he loves the idea of having someone who has a track record as the next president of the united states. they know how to stand up and say no to spending. i shared with him as i shared with people across this country, if congress and i'm going to do my best to work with congress.
i have done that for quite sometime on the pieces of legislation that require democrats and republicans, but when they send a bill that spends more money than what we have coming in, that's coming out and that's vetoing it. got bless you. >> that was governor rick perry answering questions from the press in south carolina. i'm still with professor jeffrey sacks at columbia universe and jonathan cape heart. almost prophetic because he was clear. he doesn't care about the wealthy betting wealthier and he will slash the education department and repeal all the regulations and do it all on a postcard. >> it's pathetic. it's such hackry it's unbelievable. this passes for grown up discussion. it's nothing but representing the oil sector that wants to drill anywhere and take whatever
money it wants and to represent the interest of the millionaires and billionaires who back this guy. he would slash the education system not just in d.c., and sln system period, because his numbers are an absolute disgrace. they would close down government. >> jonathan, your reaction to what you were just hearing? >> i can't add anymore to what professor sachs just said. i was blown away when governor perry said he would slash the department of education in half, and said, you know, elementary school and middle schools would just have to go by the wayside. now, how on earth is the united states going to win the future, compete with china and all these other countries we're trying to economically hold at bay if we're going to slash and burn the education department and programs that are geared towards getting american citizens up and running to compete in the
economy of the future? i'm having a hard time -- and i'm not an economist and i'm not a numbers guy, but sitting there listening to governor perry, that might work for republican primary voters, but i would guarantee you that there are quite a few people who are sitting and wondering who they're going to vote for in the general election, and looking at governor perry and thinking, i'm not sure i want this guy in there. >> but the truth is, jonathan, this man has been consistent. and in texas, he's slashed the educate budgets. so at least he's consistent about the issue. >> right. he's consistent, and he talks a lot about the jobs that he's created in texas, and there are a few neighboring governors who will say jobs he stole from them, but also, there's some economists and jeffrey, correct me if i'm wrong, but economists who talk about the types of jobs that governor perry has created in texas. and they're not the high-paying, high-waste jobs that a lot of americans are looking for.
these are minimum wage, and this is not to denigrate those jobs, but governor perry is giving the impression that he's creating jobs of this caliber when the jobs he's created don't rise to that level. >> do you agree with that? >> of course, jonathan is completely right about this. it's not even the beginning of a sophisticated pro-business agenda. this is such unbelievable crudeness, i have to say, and crude oil is a big part of this, for the governor, but even, you know, a slightly more sophisticated take. the national association of manufacturing last week issued a report which said, we can't find the skilled worker -- >> i read the report! >> -- in our economy. excellent report. and said, we need workers who can do systems engineering, who machine -- machinists and craftsmen and so forth, and there are hundreds of thousands of jobs we'd fill in america if we had the skilled work. instead, they're filling them
abroad, or they're begging for these h1b visas to bring in these workers from abroad. then these guys, these characters, it's unbelievable, they're talking about slashing education systems. ron paul wants to close down the department of education entirely. perry, we should give him credit, he only wants to slash it by half. what kind of america do they actually think people want? and is this an american only where billionaires behind a gated community will do their thing? and then there's the ignorance of it, these job creators, sure, you even look at our most sophisticated company, apple, for example, wonderful company, wonderful products. it created hundreds of thousands of jobs, in china! where else? >> jonathan, final word to you. >> martin, two things to keep in mind about governor perry's plan, which makes it to, to me, doa. one, he has a balanced budget amendment, which democrats and
republicans, people on both sides of the aisle, say is a nonstarter. remember, that came up during the debt ceiling debate and didn't go anywhere. and the other thing is, he wants to repeal obama care. that's not going to really go anywhere either. in order for that to happen, the republicans have to take over the senate. and even then, probably ain't going to happen. >> jonathan capehart and jeffrey sachs, thanks so much for joining us. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the peace of mind of owning a 2011 iihs top safety pick. the all-new volkswagen passat.
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it's time now to clear the air. and i guess it's a case of desperate man, desperate measures, as candidate rick perry finds himself floundering at the wrong end of the latest poll. today's "new york times"/cbs poll finds perry in the third tier of candidates, behind even newt gingrich and ron paul. but rather than accept the verdict of the republican base, rick perry has decided, in an act of utter desperation, to revive a series of deeply offensive and bogus smears against the president. in an interview with my
colleague, john harwood, perry thought it was funny to imply that mr. obama isn't qualified to be president, neither intellectually, nor by his place of birth. >> to poke at him a little bit and say, hey, how about, let's see your grades and your birth certificate. >> in some ways, one has to feel sorry for a man who is so self-conscious about his own intellectual limitations, that he feels obliged to drag the president down with him to the bottom of the class. but the attack on the president's place of birth is even more pernicious. it suggests that barack obama could be nothing more than an illegal immigrant, who's lied about his country of birth and deceived the world. one wonders how long it will be before rick perry accuses the president of being a fundamentalist muslim, who wants to stage beheadings on the white house lawn and will soon introduce a new law, banning women from driving. i guess anything's now possible. so, if rick perry is free to characterize the president as an
academic cheat, who lied about his place of birth, how best to sum up his personality? who is rick perry? what's his history? the closest thing that i could find comes from the first few mi >> your boy's different. >> are you stupid or something? >> mama says stupid is as stupid does. >> actually, that's not fair. forrest gump won the medal of honor, after all. thanks very much for watching. dylan ratigan's here to pick things up. dylan, it's all yours. >> thank you very much, martin. if you don't mind, before we go, i was thinking about our conversation yesterday, with your musical interests and obviously my musical skills, and i picked up between the lines in that conversation yesterday, because you were saying -- you were recording last weekend and i said i have played around town a little bit, it seems that you have no interest in playing
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