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tv   Up W Chris Hayes  MSNBC  December 29, 2012 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

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share one up's. mom ? mom ? the share everything plan. lets your family share a pool of data across 10 devices with unlimited talk and text. get a spectrum 2 by lg for $49.99 >> it's a hazy winter day new washington, d.c., hard to see how congressional leaders will work it out in the next fraetd hours to keep the country from falling off the so-called fiscal cliff. i'm craig melvin and you are watching msnbc, with all the focus on the fiscal cliff, will there be action on gun control. meanwhile, we are going to talk to an attorney general that wants to arm teachers to protect
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students. and the race to fill john kerry's senate seat. first, fiscal cliff talks. countdown clock tot screen. the senate is shouldering most of the weight of that deadline. senate leaders working behind closed doors to come up with a cliff compromise, something that the house and the president has failed to do so is far. the president has tasked senator majority leader harry reed. >> i have asked senator reed to do it, put a by on the floor to make sure that taxes on middle class families do not go up. and unemployment insurance is still available for two million people and lays the groundwork for economic growth and deficit reduction. >> everything that has been happening in the last several hours has been happening behind the scenes. we have correspondents tracking everything for you. we have luke, luke, i will start
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with you this hour. the senate officially reconvenes tomorrow afternoon. i assume that there's a lot of closed door talks going on right now. is that true? what can you tell us? >> reporter: that is true, staff from harry reed and mitch mcconnell have been negotiating through the daout the day and in picked up. we have heard that both sides are not budgeting. but we don't know, things can change at any moment. if we have to gauge how to talks have gone so far from the conversations we have had here around capitol hill, they have not been too good at the moment. all that being said though, craig, there's a lot that can happen over the next 48 hours. the deal obviously is to try to have something on the floor that can pass the house of representatives by new year's eve. that is why it's so difficult, craig. you have mitch mcconnell and
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harry reed trying to get something passed. so there's a lot of moving parts. this is not a really easy road ever. so far, things are not overly optimistic, there was a touch of optimism yesterday and this morning but it went away this afternoon. >> what happened? >> who knows. >> what happened between yesterday afternoon and evening when everyone sounded like this thing may happen and now? >> what happens is they go in a room and start going back forth with each other and realize that they have not moved an inch from yesterday. all the talk was we can come together and he get it done, but when you go to the specifics of it, it gets more difficult. we heard a rumbling that the estate tax could be a holdup. that is something that the republicans do not want to be increased the president wants the tax at 45%, and the republicans want it at 35%. it's something like that that
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can send something downward for hours. maybe they figure it out and go on to the next thing and something else is the problem. that is how the negotiations go. we are all hanging on their every word here, craig, to be honest with you, nobody literally knows for sure when it is this close. two guys in a room. no one knows for sure. >> okay, luke, in a dark ened capitol hill this afternoon. appreciate you. >> no problem. >> let's go kristin, standing by for us, from your viewpoint, i imagine you have been talking to folks in the white house, any sign that you may see a deal struck in the next 50 hours or so? >> i think the mood is the same. you heard president obama say on friday that he is modestly optimist optimistic, which suggests he is not completely optimistic. i am told that staffers have been in contact with the staffers on the hill. they are monitoring the negotiations and as you heard luke said, that matches the
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reporting that i've been doing, there's not the same level of confidence coming out of the hill that we saw yesterday when congressional leaders left the white house. for president obama's part, he is using his bully pulpit to try pressure lawmakers to act. he sat down with david gregory today, and that will appear on "meet the press" tomorrow. he came out with certain words for lawmakers in terms of getting something done before the all important january 1st deadline. take a listen. >> the american people are watching what we do here. obviously their patience is already thin. this is deja vu all over again. america wonders why it is that in this town for some reason, you can't get something done in an organized timetable. why everything has to always wait to the last minute. now we are at the last minute. and the american people are not going to have any patience for a
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politically self inflicted wound to our economy. >> this is a tactic that president has used before. to rally the public. it did work before. but this point, we are less than three days out. it's not clear it's having an impact. if we do in fact go over the fiscal cliff, there will be plenty of blame to go around, the poles show that most of the blame will be on republicans. however president obama is the commander in chief, so he will undoubtedly get some of the blame as well. there's a lot of pressure for them to get something done over the next two and a half days. we have already seen the markets impacted, consumer confidence has been down and when you talk to folks, craig, they say, they are frustrated and they are worried about what this will mean for their paychecks. >> kristin welker, thank you.
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negotiations on the hill ultimately coming down to a few key individuals and their staffers. for more on that, i want to bring in the senior political editor, mark murray. thank you for sticking around. >> thanks for having me. >> over the past month, president obama has been spending a lion's share of his time negotiating with speaker boehner, that did not work. what can you tell us about the key individuals involved in the process now, president obama, senator majority leader harry reed and mitch mcconnell. what is the tone? >> it's all about the senate right now, that is one of the more remarkable developments. all along we thought it would be between the obama white house and house speaker john boehner and there was a logic behind that. because getting legislation out of the house is the trickier part of crafting any type of deal. but with the house saying look, we need the senate to do something, the last ditch effort is occurring in the senate right
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now. i spoke to staffers close to senator mcconnell that said there was optimism on their side yesterday, including from their boss, senator minority leader mitch mcconnell to get a deal. of course, any kind of word in reading from the members themselves will not come until tomorrow, but it's both chris and luke that said in the segment before mine, there is a sense that what might have been optimism yesterday does not exist today. of course, that is what always goes on when you have negotiations. we will see what happens tomorrow. tomorrow will be a very big day. >> the optimism seems to be waning. what does john boehner do if mitch mcconnell and harry reed come to an agreement? >> that is the question if something is done on the senate side, craig, there's been the talk about house republicans as
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in any majority, you end up bringing the majority of the legislation that is support bid the majority, and if john boehner brings something to the floor that doesn't have the support of the majority of the house republicans, there could be some type of -- his speakership could be threatened, who ends up trying to run against him, you just don't know. about the likelihood of john boehner bringing legislation that is supported mostly by democrats and a handful of republicans will bring him some trouble. that's a dynamic to watch. >> mark murray, senior political editor, thanks to you, sir. for more on what could happen as the fiscal cliff counts down. i want bring in the senior congressional reporter in politico. it's clear from what was said yesterday, that he believes that the senate leaders can put together a deal. take a listen. >> i just had a good and
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constructive discussion here at the white house with the senator and house leadership about how to prevent this tax hike on the middle class. and i'm optimistic we may still be able to reach an agreement that could pass both houses in time. >> what had to happen behind the scenes? what had to transpire in the room for the president to express any optimism that a deal could be made? >> i think it was positive sounds by mitch mcconnell. the senator minority leader wants a deal. he knows in the new year, it will be harder to get a deal to the republican likings if it goes over the cliff. the republicans will suffer a bigger amount of the blame and there will be more democrats in congress in the next two years and at that point, it will be harder to shape a deal how they want it to be shaped. so mcconnell wants a deal. they are negotiating with harry reed as was mentioned behind closed doors. look, there's still a lot of room that mcconnell needs to move and reed needs to accept to
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get there. both on the tax rate side and what would come along with that and whether any spending cuts would be part of any equation. but mitch mcconnell made positive sounds yesterday. and i think that led folks to say, hey, maybe there's at least an outside chance of getting a deal. >> if a deal gets done, it will be a much smaller deal than both sides thought they would be able to reach if you asked them a few months ago. the president has a full agenda in the coming year. he said that he wants to do something on immigration. he is indicating that he would like to do something with regard to gun control and there's been talk on energy legislation. but it looks like raising the debt ceiling is not part of the deal. that is four major political fights that the president has on his hands. what is going to get lost the longer this drags on? >> i think most of those things. look, if this drags on into the new year, this is going to be the focus up until the inauguration.
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and as you mentioned, not only the debt ceiling but also come march, you will have to figure out how to extend government spending for the rest of the fiscal year. and they don't, the government would shut down. there are major fiscal fights that need to be resolved beyond the immediate fiscal cliff. we are not even talking about the major policies that you are talking about. immigration reform and gun control legislation, those are things that can fall by the wayside if we are consumed by the fiscal talks which seems likely. >> it seems they crawl from one crisis to the next. thank you, sir, we will see you later in the hour. >> thank you. >> president obama will be talking about the fiscal cliff with david gregory on "meet the press" tomorrow, it's an exclusive interview, check your local listings for the air times. if you miss it, we will rerun it on msnbc tomorrow afternoon at
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3:00. want to update you on developing news in houston. george h. w. bush has been released from icugabe is staineding by. you told us two hours ago that the president was singing to doctors and unurses, he sounds like he is doing better than a week ago? >> yes, we got a update saying that former president bush was moved to a regular patient room and that the bush family wanted to thank everyone for their thought prayers. this comes a day after the spokesman said that the former president was singing along with his medical staff. and the 41st president of the united states first went to the hospital in early november for bronchitis, he was released a few days later and then after thanksgiving went back in with a nagging cough. his families have not released
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many details of the treatment he has been receiving, but late this week, on thursday, houston -- the chief of staff urge supporters to put the hearts back in the closet. president bush was a fighter and in good spirits, still no telling how long he will be in the hospital. but we learned that he has been moved from the icu back to a regular patient room good news in houston. >> thank you for the update. appreciate that. it's wedding day in maine for some same sex couples who have waited until today for their state's law to take affect. we will find out what is next on the horizon for marriage equality in the country. and will lawmakers come together in time to avert a economic disaster. the president is optimistic. we will see what the brain trust has to say about that. cellphon ircellphon
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>> by the power invested in my, by the state of maine, i now pronounce you married. >> wedding bells and rounds of applause for same-sex couples in maine. they began issuing same-sex marriage licenses at midnight. it was approved on the ballot, making maine one of three states to do so by popular vote. we will break it down. the maine legislature, my understanding is that it previously approved same-sex marriage, but it was overturned three years ago. what happened between then and now?
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>> hundreds of thousands of conversations of mainers with their gay and lesbian family numbers and the public is moved quite a deal in the last three years. >> to what can we attribute to the shift? just the conversations or more? >> i think it's people getting to truly know their friends and neighbors that are gay and l lesbile lesbian is and realizes they are not different than themselves. there are a couple of big things, first, we will be before the u.s. supreme court in june on this so-called defense of marriage act. >> doma. that said that the federal government will not respect gay couples marriages in maine and other states where it's legal and proposition 8, the ban on marriage equality in california is up before the courts. and then we are fighting in 5
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states. we want to win in five states before the court issues the ruling. >> in regard to doma, it said, if your side wins the battle, that may end the battle in many states, is that true? >> what the doma will do, it respects marriages in states where the states have decided that gay couples can marry. it will say, the marriages will be treated equal in those states. >> the president has strong feelings on gay and lesbian issues. what more would you like to see from the white house? >> obviously, president obama has been fantast ta-- been fant has spoken out in a heartfelt way.
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he has been fantastic. >> all right, good to have you with us. thank you for coming in. national campaign director for freedom to marry. a plan to train teachers in his state to shoot a gun. he will join me to explain it. up next, he has been named as president's pick for secretary of state. and now i don't know kerry will weigh in on the race to replace him in the senate. new years clutter is no match for someone with big ideas. with a new project in mind, some how-to knowledge to give us an edge, and more savings down every aisle. it only takes a few twists and turns for those bright ideas to make the new year even brighter. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot.
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replacement. he said that he would be able to hit the ground running for every issue of importance to massachusetts. it could indicate that the democrats want to unite around a candidate in the event of a heavily contested election for the vacated seat by john kerry. who was nominated to be secretary of state by the president last friday. updating on the storm that is moving into the new york and new england area. hundreds flights have been cancelled, thousands more have been delayed at laguardia airport now, -- we have julie martin with us. >> reporter: we are getting a break, we have seen snow and a bit of sleet, visibility is one of the big issues and we are down to about a mile or so. not the greatest situation, but
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one thing helping the flights and the pilots are the winds. the winds are not all that strong. so fortunately the flights have been able to come and go, but we are seeing the delays starting to mount a bit. overall here in new york and new jersey, we have seen 197 flights cancelled and hundreds of delays at the three airports but here at laguardia, not all that bad considering what we experienced a couple of days ago with the last system that came through cancelling thousands of flights and stranding hundreds of pass enerr js. so, at this point, it's a wait and see, we could get a bursts of snow coming through the tri-state area later this evening and the winds will continue to pick up. i expect travel conditions to worsen as the afternoon and night goes on. craig? >> julie martin, braving the elements, we appreciate it. thank you. still to come, after the fiscal cliff, the hangover. what will it feel like the day after? up next though, arming teachers
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to protect students, we are going to talk to arizona's attorney general who has a plan under way to do just that. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. [ sniffs ] i have a cold. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ breathes deeply ] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth!
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russia's busiest airport. 12 crew members but no passengers were on board at the time of the accident. new york police have a woman in connection with the murder of a man pushed into a subway train, they say she is believed to be homeless and emotionally disturbed. she was arrested and made statements to policie implicatig herself in the murder. and a lawyer for the family said that his client of a 6-year-old student heard screaming and shooting over an intercom and has said that they failed to provide a safe school setting for the client. armed volunteers around schools in arizona, that is the plan of maricopa county sheriff.
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he is referred to as the toughest sheriff in the country c can. he calls the volunteer army as his posse, meanwhile, guns are flying off the shelves. gun owners are stock piles assault rifles fearing a ban on the weapons, perhaps. joining me is arizona attorney general tom horn, pushing for the ability to arm at least one school official per school. good to have you. >> good to be here. thank you for having me. >> are you concerned with firearm mishaps? >> i am, craig and for that reason, i have sought the golden mean between the two extremes. on the one hand, a number of people propose that teachers in general bring guns to school. i'm' opposed to that. i think it would cause more dangers than it solves. i do not think it's a good idea. on the other hand, it's not a
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good idea to do nothing either. if we had another opportunity of newtown, where a number of people got killed and it could have been prevented had we done something. we would regret doing nothing. my proposal is the middle proposal to do something but avoid doing things that creates harm than good. i have offered to give free training to the principal and the designee in each school. we would train them in when to shoot, not to shoot, how to lockup the gun. >> what if the principal or the designate, and he or she is in the gym and the gunman comes through the front door of the school? what good does that do? >> part of it is to have a good communication system. so if there's an emergency in any part of the school. they can get to the location quickly. >> the sheriff is planning mobilize a posse, a marked
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patrol car will be stationed outside the school. that a deterrent? >> you know, i don't really know. i'm hoping that the sheriff will work with me, three sheriffs already have agreed to work with me in the training of one person per school. and the sheriff was the sheriff for my home county. so, i'm hoping he will work with me as well. >> people across the country, we just heard from the mayor of bridgeport, connecticut, a few minutes ago, a lot of folks trying to get guns off the streets right now. two rocket launchers were part of the 2,000 guns that were part of the buyback a few days ago. is that a better method than putting more guns in tnoticein schools? >> i doubt the rocket launchers are legal right now. the best solution would be to have a police officer in each school. and we have had a program like that for many years. it's called school resource
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officers, they not only help protect against violence, but they teach a course or two in police work in leadership. they make friends with the kids that are there every day. >> what about the cost of that? what about the cost of that? >> that's the problem, we only had it in perhaps 10% of the schools and when the fiscal crisis hit in 2008, the legislatu legislature had to cut back from that. so it's in a small percentage of the schools. so my proposal is second best. the preference is to have the school resource officers in the schools, that would be the best solution, but recognizing the financial program and not thinking that the legislature will fund putting police in our schools. i think give them training, similar to what the police get in marksmanship, and good judgment, when to shoot, when not to shoot, that sort of thing. >> what about restricting magazines in the country. there's been talk approxima abo
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restricting the high capacity magazines, would that help? >> that's a good question to ask a congressman or a state legislature? i'm there to enforce the laws as they exist. >> you have an opinion, you are the chief law enforcer in the state. what is your opinion on it? >> even within my jurisdiction, i have a lot of controversies on my plate. so i have chosen not to get in the area. and i have been pushing the idea of providing free training. i have 36 investigators that are sworn police officers, and i expect a number of sheriffs to join in to me, to provide free training to the schools so they have somebody there able to deal with emergencies if they arise. >> tom horn, i appreciate you, everyone if you did not answer my last question. >> thank you. craig. >> i want to dig in deeper with our own saturday brain trust, we
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are not going to stop talking about this. thanks gentlemen for being back. >> great to be with you. >> doug, starting with you, arming the teachers is that one of the answers to gun violence in the country? >> i think we need to take a complete look at the situation. i think you know, mr. lapierre seems to think that guns had nothing to do with the issue in newtown. it's interesting to hear them talking about putting armed police officers in schools when they spent the last two or three years voting against funding local and state officials, including first responders and police officers. so it would be interesting to hear from them where the money is going to come from? i'm supportive of having security officials in school, but we have to look at the other issues, including the sale of guns.
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doug, unless, you have a full scale security team. we are talking thousands of kids. if you have a 62-year-old retired cop sitting in the front office with a handgun, how much good does that really do? >> it was a diversion for mr. lapierre, by trying to focus the conversation elsewhere and not on the issue of gun safety and high capacity magazines and assault rifles that are being sold. he is trying to holdup a sign and say look over here, and talk about putting security guards and arming them in schools. that is not the real issue. the real issue is the availability of these the guns to folks who really absolutely should not have them. >> here is another issue colin. washington post reporting here, that gun sales in the country have absolutely soared since the december 14th shootings in newtown, connecticut, the post said, eight days after newtown, more than 5100 requests for
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background checks in gun buyers saying they are going to receive more than 8200 gun permit applications. why is there a rush? >> the principal reason why people rush to buy guns is because they fear that if they don't by them now, they will not be able to buy them later. furthermore, if there are kinds of guns that are proposed to be banned, those are the guns that people want to buy before they are banned. there should not be a surprise about the nature or the timing, the there's no question that this was an unspeakable tragedy, i'm not trying to suggest that, all i'm saying is that the habits that you are pointing out of gun buyers after an emergency are completely rational and have been proven time over time over time to be the case. >> is that rational in is it rational for folks to go out and apparently stock up for the
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revolution after massive shooting? >> well, there's -- that is not fair. that is not a fair question. >> what part was not fair? >> stock up for the revolution. this is not about stocking up for the revolution. >> there have been a number of people since newtown along the lines of what you said is that one of the reasons they are taking up arms is that they are fearing that the government will come after them and try to take the guns away. >> and with reason, look at what is being said, look at all -- >> knows are assault weapons bans. that is a far cry from taking guns away. >> they are talking about taking the guns as an option, check your own news sources on both of the politician ans, they have said within the last three days that confiscation is an option for the measures they are pro posing. >> craig? craig? >> go ahead. >> i would say the chances of getting something like that flew congress after the tragedy and saumt weapons ban would be difficult in the new year.
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the new congress. you know, people have that fear that an salt weapons ban or more gun control restrictions will come to play. look, the political dynamics will be difficult to impose a lot of restrictions. getting that through would be hard. yes, the debate has changed since newtown, they are talking again when they have been afraid to do it for years. but getting legislation through is a tall order. >> we will talk about fiscal cliff stuff when we come back, i want to pick up where we left off, there's polling out that speaks to what you said. about the political will to do something about guns we will talk about that and the fiscal cliff after this. [ laughter ]
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we were talking about guns, doug, i will start with you in a second. washington post again, this is another poll that was taken. it's a gallop poll and it shows that 58% of folks in the country, up from 44%. 58% support new gun measures. but when you ask them what kind of measures, the numbers begin to fall off the considerably. it's akin to asking folks about tax loopholes and they will say, yeah, close the loopholes and then we talk about specific ones and they say, we do not want to lose mortgage interest deduction. what do we do? >> it's, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. you know, that is kind of what the situation with guns that we are looking at, i think, you know, just to back up a little bit. in terms of the part you were talking about in terms of the government taking your guns. we need to remember that one of the biggest members of the nra are gun manufacturers, who benefits from the sales of guns?
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the gun manufacturers, the nra is a huge -- they are ones that are stoking the fear of guns being taken away. they get a dollar of a sale of a gun or a package of ammunition at many stores. so they benefit by having this weird relationship where they are stoking the fear that the government is taking the guns away. and gun manufacturers benefit financially and so does the nra, i do not think we should forget about that. >> that is a point worth making. colin, a question, are you a nra member? not to put on the spot. >> i am, i'm a lifetime member. >> do you have high capacity clips? >> i do not. do you see the need to restrict those? >> it's on the edge of what is supposed to be allowed. this is relatively close to it. there's reaches that i think a
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lot of people are going to talk about. it's possible that a high capacity magazine restriction could be done in a way that is constitutional, and i'm not sure that frankly it's going to be that useful, that effective. i do not think that those are the solutions that will stop the epidemic of violence, it's right at the edge of what is possible. >> you eluded to this before the break, politically, there may not be the will. fact of the matter is there could very well not be the will two months from now in the halls of congress. what are you hearing about this as the tragedy becomes more of a memory to a lot of folks? >> well, i mean, everyone of course, is very upset about this, and thinks that there needs to be a conversation, what that conversation entails, there's where the disagreement lies. look, i talked to a lot of senators about the democrats too. who will come from conservative states, some who were up for re-election, who are not convinced that there need to be
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further restrictions on guns. so, not only do we have republicans who most -- for the most part would appose further restrictions, not just in the senate, but also in the republican controlled house. but a lot of conservative democrats from states like alaska, or louisiana, folks who opposed reinstating the assault weapons ban, now when we talk about in the new congress, we will see, we will wait for the president and his task force to unveil the proposal and see how sweeping and tough they will be. whether they try to thread the needle and go a compromise measure. that could attract the conser conservative democrats that want to restrict high capacity magazines. >> last break, who will save the day as we get closer to the fiscal cliff. back with the brain trust after this. when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes.
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back now the brain frustrate for final thought -- brain trust with us. doug, let me start with you. fiscal cliff. or as the "l.a. times" said, that some people will wake up to a new year's eve hang over. will we have a hangover or a deal on new year's day? >> i do not think we will have a deal, the politics right now, it seems that republicans feel like it's better for them to cut taxes on january 1st or 2nd than to do it you now. i don't think that we will have a deal. >> colin, what type of agreements have to be made for this thing to happen, and do you think it can still happen? >> i think there's a pretty good chance of a deal being worked out because you have four deal makers and what do deal makers do when they sit at the table with the clock running out but
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make a deal. that is the problem, i don't think that we want a deal. i don't think that the american public wants another deal. we want solutions. a year ago we had a chance with the cut cap and balance and now we are looking at back into this fight. and let's focus on spending not taxes. that is where the problem is. >> there's disagreement over what colin just said, the president seems to be dealing from a position of strength, is he likely to get concessions that he needs to get the plan through or is this simply about revenues? >> this is mostly about revenues at this point, i think any deal that you will see the next day will be very narrow in scope. we will mostly deal with the issue of revenues and it will show republicans really backing down for their no-tax position and allowing a rate increase of some kind, that said, i'm still very skeptical that they can get to a point that can get all sides agreeing to something and
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it's something that the republicans can agree to in the house. you know, there's a very, very -- a slim chance of that happening, but if anything happens, it's going to be a small scope deal and not the big about deal that they have been talking about for a long time. >> colin, are you at all surprised that john boehner has been sidelined at this point to a certain extent? >> not surprised given the way the president has chosen to conduct the debate. and again, i say that this issue -- >> how has than been? >> he has been on several occasions, he has said we are not talking about that. i won, these are the consequences of an election. so, he has not been operating in a deal-making mode, even though he stands before the cameras occasionally and says it. i think he has a better chance to work a deal through the stnt and back it in -- through the senate and back it in through the house. >> where have the republicans
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bent? they have not bent at all, the president has bent, he has reduced the amount of revenue he is asking for. he he want to cut taxes for small businesses and individuals. he has bent on medicare. so that is not accurate to describe it that way. the president has been there all along. >> we will have to leave it there. thank you so much. i enjoyed you guys with us. we usually like to have a few ladies with us, but that is okay. >> happy new year. >> to you as well. join us tomorrow, i will host the live coverage of a possible plan, a possible plan, to prevent the squauld fiscal cliff, i will have several lawmakers to talk about what is going on. and don't forget, a interview with the president on "meet the press." we will see you back here tomorrow. have a great saturday night.
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