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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  April 17, 2013 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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favoring background checks and still these senators decided to do nothing. speaking is physically difficult for me, gabby give fords says, but my feelings are furious. i will not rest until we have righted the wrong the senators have done and until we have changed our laws. i am asking every reasonable american to help me tell the truth that the cowardice these senators presented and i'm asking for activists to unsubscribing from the e-mail lists and stop giving them money. i'm asking citizens to go to their offices and say, you have disappointed me and there will be consequences. it goes on from there. tomorrow's "new york times." gabby giffords. now it's time for lawrence o'donnell reporting from boston. have a great night. today the gun lobbyists at the nra got what they wanted on the floor of the united states senate and tonight lobbyists from the nra have made it harder
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for the fbi to find the murderer who planted the bombs here in boston. >> the investigation into monday's bombing in boston intensifies. >> there's a lot of information flying around right now. >> we've heard conflicting information. >> various media accounts right now as to whether or not someone is in custody. >> a suspect is about to be arre arrested. >> i have just been told that an arrest has been made. >> we are not comfortable reporting that. >> several law enforcement officers have told us that hasn't happened. >> on the record, there's been no arrests in the boston bombings case. >> here is what we actually know. >> investigators have identified solid leads from video evidence. >> investigators have obtained video. >> surveillance video specifically from a department store. >> the person placing a black bag down near the scene of the blast. >> at the same time, they are piecing together the bomb parts. >> it's a very promising lead. >> tracking where they were purchased. >> the investigation is
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proceeding fairly rapidly. >> what happened will not change us. >> it's not just an attack against boston, it's an attack against all of us. >> there are new developments tonight in the bombing investigation here in boston. but that investigation could be moving faster were it not for the successful lobbying efforts of the national rifle association. the nra's efforts to guarantee that american mass murderers are the best-equipped mass murders in the world is not limited to murderers who use assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. the nra is also in the business of helping bombers get away with their crimes. gunpowder could be traced by investigators to a buyer at the point of sale if gunpowder contain an element that would enable the tracing of gunpowder
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but thanks to the national rifle association, identification taggants are remembered by law only in plastic explosives. the nra has successfully blocked any requirements for such taggants in gunpowder. it's not available to the fbi in this investigation. the fbi tells nbc news it is following some promising leads. one in particular, video and images collected by authorities showing someone carrying a heavy backpack or duffle bag and placing it at the spot where the second bomb went off. key evidence is also being obtained from footage captured by a video camera above one of the bomb sites. that camera was on top of the lord & taylor department store. despite conflicting reports in
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the media, none of which came from this network, there has been no arrest of any individual or individuals at this time. the fbi and boston police are calling for restraint from the news media. adding to the confusion here in boston today, the federal courthouse was evacuated earlier this afternoon. employees were given what is known as a code red order to leave as a result of a bomb scare. we've obtained more tote toes from the bomb sites. here's a closer look at the fragments left from the pieces of a pressure cooker. nbc news' pete williams points out that one of the pressure cooker lids ended up on the roof of a nearby building because the force of the explosion was so great. this photo shows bbs and a nail believed to be part of the shrapnel in one of the bombs along what could be the zipper from one of those black
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backpacks or nylon bags authorities have mentioned. investigators know the type of batteries use and michael isikoff reports they were in a battery pack made by a company in california used to power toy cars and often for sale in hobby shops. officials have opened up more of the area around the crime scene, focusing their investigation primarily on those two explosion points and the stretch of boylston street. i'm joined now by massachusetts governor deval patrick. thank you for joining me. >> thank you, lawrence. >> i'd like you to tell the story about how you found out about these explosions. i heard you explain this on a local interview. >> i had been out at the finish line crowning the men's and women's winners earlier in the day and i had finished up, i don't know, 1:00 or so -- >> you had done your governor
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duty for the day. >> i did my governor duty. i had an unusually empty afternoon, i did some errands and i went to work out and i was driving home and my youngest daughter called from this neighborhood. she wasn't actually at the race but nearby and she said, dad, i heard two loud booms and everybody's running. what's going on? and i said, i don't know. but let me find out. and i asked the state trooper i was with whether he knew what was going on and he said, no, but i'll check in. and, of course -- >> so here's the governor of massachusetts, two bombs have gone off on boylston street at the boston marathon and you have the state police, you have all sorts of resources and the first call you get is from your daughter? >> it was probably, is i don't know, 15 minutes after it had happened. and i think frankly, law enforcement was doing what is their first priority, which is helping those that have been hurt. >> so you then, through the state police, confirmed that something really serious happened? >> right. and of course, we were hoping
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that it was anything but bombs. we were hoping that they were celebratory cannons so we were trying to get close to the scene and take charge. >> really what is going on here in terms of the investigation, how do you think the news media got so out of control on this today? >> i don't know exactly the answer to that, lawrence. people are hungry for information. i understand that. and not just in the media to scope the story but in the general public. it's the kind of investigation that requires going through those several blocks around the blast scene, square inch by square inch, and that is slow and deliberate and methodical and it should be. i think that what i've been saying to people is it isn't so until the fbi says it is so and they have many federal and local agencies working with them. >> you've gone to the hospital
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now and you visited with bill and denise richard, the couple who lost their 8-year-old son just a block away. what was that like today? >> well, i know them. i have for some time. they have been active in my campaign. when i spoke to bill yesterday, he reminded me of a photograph that he has of martin when he was then two or three years old holding a campaign sign. and you can imagine -- >> the word came out that it was an 8-year-old boy. how soon did you know who that was and which family this was? >> fairly, fairly soon. >> before the names are released? >> not too much before they were released. you guys are very diligent about digging up the information. but this is a wonderful family surrounded by a very loving community and we have all felt their loss. >> i was out in your neighborhood yesterday, which is very close around the corner from where i grew up. >> in dorchester? >> yeah. and it is -- as you know, the mood out there is quite grim and
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down. what can you tell us about denise, the mother's injuries? and her daughter has lost a leg, we know that. >> that's right. her daughter was in surgery today. i visited with both mom and dad. mom was out of surgery from yesterday and doing well. obviously tired, both -- >> was she able to speak? >> yes. >> she has a head injury, doesn't she? >> i don't want to get into the details of her injury. we did talk and she was -- you know, she's feeling all those layers of emotion, both a sense of loss and the importance of rallying for henry and jane and for bill and for herself. >> do they have a sense of how the country, not just boston, feels about their loss in particular? >> that's a really interesting question. >> there's a feeling that goes to the youngest victims in these cases. >> i think they have a very, very clear sense of how martin in particular but the family
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generally has become a symbol for what has happened and kind of a touch point for all of our grief and i think they love that and are a little daunted by it at the same time, as a person would be. >> the president is coming tomorrow. >> yes. >> have you had a chance to talk to him about coming to boston tomorrow? >> i talked to him last yesterday morning. the days are blurring a little bit. his was one of the first calls after the explosion and explosions. he's put every law enforcement resource at the federal level at our disposal and i appreciate that he's coming to comfort us, really. >> i know he and the first lady want to visit hospitals but there's some concern about how disruptive that might be with the presidential security and motorcade. >> right. right. the president is very self-aware of that. he also -- he loves being with people and i think he understands that it's a different kind of comfort you can give when you can actually
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touch someone and look them directly in the eye rather than do respect through a tv camera. but also, as i say, sensitive to what the movement of a president does to a town. so they were sorting that out this afternoon. i actually don't know where that was left. >> governor, what happened at 5:00 today? you were scheduled to be in a briefing, a news briefing with the fbi, the routine briefing that occurred every day. that was canceled. why? >> i don't know all the reasons. the biggest issue in the late afternoon was the evacuation of the federal building where the offices are and that was disruptive to everybody. i don't know whether by 5:00 they were back in the building. but that kind of made a mess of the day and the work. their first focus is the investigation. and every minute they aren't spending on the investigation is time away from getting to the bottom of it. so i think everybody recognizes
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how hungry folks are for information and i think it's -- even if they show up and say we can't comment on those details -- and i think we'll probably see more briefings going forward. but i think people should also be prepared for lots of those briefings where they can't answer all the questions people have yet because either they don't have them or it's not the right time to reveal information that might compromise the investigation. so z-- >> governor deval patrick, thank you for being here. >> thank you. coming up, investigators believe they have a suspect. we'll have the latest details in the investigation. and then later, you will hear president obama's angry reaction to the votes in the senate today on and his reply to rand paul's statement about the sandy hook elementary school and the mother of the 9-year-old girl who was killed in the gabby
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gi giffords shooting will join me. her daughter would be alive today. off your deductible the day you sign up. then another hundred off every year you don't have an accident. let the good hands reward your safe driving with a deductible that goes away. ♪ deductible rewards. one more way you're in good hands with allstate. ♪ one more way you're in good hands with allstate. we believe it can be the most valuable real estate on earth. ♪ that's why we designed our newest subaru from the back seat forward. introducing the all-new, completely restyled subaru forester. love. it's what makes a subaru,
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today we learn the identity of the third person killed by the bombs at the boston marathon. lingzi lu was a graduate student at boston university. she moved to boston a year ago to study matt particulars and statistics. she was killed while watching the marathon with two of her friends. up next, how investigators identified a suspect in the bombing. [ female announcer ] switch to swiffer 360 duster extender, and you'll dump your old duster. swiffer 360 duster extender cleans high and low, with thick all around fibers
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hold accountable and bring to justice whoever is responsible. but this investigation is now not even 48 hours old and it is important that we maintain the integrity of the investigation. >> today, the fbi first postponed and then canceled their regular briefing on the investigation into the boston marathon bombing. authorities told ncbc news that authorities have a face but not the name of someone seen on camera. they just have the face. someone dropping a black bag near the second blast site. an official says investigators are zeroing in on some people. joining me now is nbc news national investigative correspondent michael isikoff and agent james calf nau.
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how did the news media get out of control on this, some of the other networks saying they had an arrest and then how did that in any way possibly lead to the canceling of the regular briefing? >> we don't know for sure. and it's too bad because it would have been good to clear up what's become a confusing situation but my sense is, some investigators got pretty excited about these surveillance photos, that they were able to identify somebody who they thought had left off a bag at the bomb site that could have been the bomb. they were helped very much by the footage they got in from the camera at the lord & taylor department store, a few hundred yards down the road here. and that led to a lot of excitement and hopes that there had been a major breakthrough. it's not clear how big of a
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breakthrough it is. clearly it's progress. clearly they've got something to work with. but i'm -- we're reporting tonight that they've distributed -- the fbi is distributing a photo image of the individual to other federal law enforcement agencies asking for them to help in helping to identify this individual. it's a pretty good indication they don't know at this moment who that is. and so this could still be yet quite an arduous task without a name who they are looking for. they don't know who they are looking for and beyond that, they don't know that that person is necessarily connected to the bombing. they know that they've got surveillance photo that is suggestive and raises questions and they want answers. but we're still pretty far off from getting a real breakthrough in this case. >> james cavanaugh, an asset
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that the fbi and police do not have is the ability to trace gunpowder. why do they not have that ability now? >> that was blocked in the '70s. these were little taggants, the size of a period on a piece of paper. i was around at the time, we trained with them, they were magnetic and they would glow in the dark. we would go out with magnets, special gloves, black lights, and we could actually recover these taggants after a bomb detonated and be able to tell us the date shift code, which is basically the lot and serial number of a batch of dynamite. we were very excited about it. we sent some of those explosives into the field, a homicide case was solved in the baltimore
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division with it but eventually when it got to the hill, gun lobby got involved, basically said, you know, if you let the atf tag explosives, next they are going to tag the powder and then road den drons and whatever. it hurt many bombing cases which is atf is particularly interested in solving 40 years ago and through today. >> and james, where do you think this investigation would be tonight were it not for the nra's blocking that particular investigative tool? >> well, in theory, lawrence, it could have given us a lot number. in theory, that's possible. you know, when you're working on a difficult case like this as mike described, every little bit of information can help you build the case. but you just had the governor on and i just want to i sa, this case from afar was being well
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run. this task force was tight, despite what happened today in the media, this task force is great. you can see the way it's been running. i've been involved in many of these cases. the agencies, boston police, boston police bomb squad, detective bureau right on through the state police, immigration, u.s. attorney, and i've worked with governor patrick. he flew to alabama and worked with me on the church fires. he's a good leader. they are doing a great job and they are going to break the case. >> james, do you have any insight as to why this briefing would have been canceled today? >> i think the commanders are probably at a decision point on whether or not they are going to further release the images. meek talked about it and he's exactly right. you know, you have an image, it could be very significant to identify a person or not. let me give you an example. in the eric rudolph case, we had
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a photograph of eric rudolph with the alice pack, with a backpack, with a bomb in it at olympic park but the photograph was so distant, we could hardly make him out. we used to call them in the command post, blob man, because we could see him threw but couldn't make out the features. we had that image for years but were never able to get an identification from it. so the clarity of the video, is the face available, is the clothes readily recognizable. the commanders are trying to make all of those decisions carefully. and i would say this. i try to release it in a tight circle to see if i can get something first and then start making the decision, i wouldn't want to start holding that too long if i thought i could get to the identity of the guy or perpetrators by releasing to the public. because the main thing is to catch these bombers before they strike again. >> michael isikoff, it seems that the next fbi briefing will,
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for some number of minutes anyway, be bogged down in the procedural question of why did you cancel the last briefing. and up until now it's been a flawlessly run system. >> well, look, they've also got to figure out exactly what they are going to say and exactly how much they are going to release. they are going to be bombarded with questions about what they know about the potential persons of interests. i hesitate to call them suspects. they haven't called them suspects yet. but how much they know, how much they want to release, do they want to solace sit help from the public in identifying who these people are? my sense is they are not there yet. that's why they are showing the photos that i'm told was being distributed tonight involves a white man with a baseball cap about six feet tall or more. now, the first blush is, do you
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have anything that looks like this guy? do you know anything about this person? if they don't get something fairly quickly, i think they may well go to the public and we may well be seeing this photo asking the public, have you ever seen this person? >> michael isikoff, james calf nau, thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. coming up, rand paul's insults to the parents of the children killed at sandy hook elementary school. you will see president obama's response to that in his own angry words. and the mother of the 9-year-old girl who was killed in the shooting that took down gabby giffords will join me and she will also respond to what rand paul had to say. , where cutting taxes for families and businesses is our business. we've reduced taxes and lowered costs to save businesses more than two billion dollars to grow jobs, cut middle class income taxes to the lowest rate in sixty years, and we're creating tax free zones for business startups.
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when i see the father and mothers and them testifying and i knew they were coming voluntarily and want to be part of this debate, it still saddens me just to see them. i think that in some cases the president has used them as props and that disappoints me. >> a minority of senators decided to stand with rand today, but that was enough to deny democracy in the united states senate once again. the president's answer to rand paul's slur against the family who is have lost loved ones in gun massacres came today in the rose garden. the president's powerful response to rand paul is next. [ lisa ] my name's lisa, and chantix helped me quit.
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difficult issues. everything needs 60 votes today. this is supposed to be a majority body. show some guts. >> a majority of senators found the guts to vote for a very mild-mannered expansion of background checks on purchases of guns in this country. but this w one of those days when a majority is not enough in the united states senate and democracy was, once again, denied. >> the vote -- the aye are 54, nays are 60. the amendment is not agreed to. >> mr. president -- >> shame on you! >> the order in the senate. the gallery will refrain from any comment. >> that voice from the speaking
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moral truth to power was patricia, who has been a recurring guest on this program because she is the woman that helped tackle the shooter in the tucson massacre when he had to reload. also, rocks anna green, the mother of christina taylor green who was murdered in that tucson parking lot that day. christina taylor green would be alive if he fired only ten bullets instead of 33. we'll get her reaction about what happened today. because of a republican procedural road block, all of the amendments voted on today required 60 votes to pass. after the votes, president obama flanked by family members and a former congressman who was shot in the head, the president tried
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to explain to americans why their democracy isn't always a democracy. >> a few months ago, in response to too many tragedies, including the shootings of a united states congresswoman, gabby giffords, who is here today, and the murder of 20 innocent school children and their teachers. this court country took up the cause of preventing more gun violence. families who know unspeakable grief summoned the courage to petition their elected leaders. not just to honor the memory of their children but to protect the lives of all of our children. a few minutes ago, a minority in the united states senate decided it wasn't worth it. they blocked commonsense gun reforms even while these families looked on from the
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senate gallery. by now it's well known that 90% of the american people support universal background checks that make harder for a dangerous person to buy a gun. we're talked about convicted felons, people convicted of domestic violence, people with a severe mental illness. 90% of americans support that idea. most americans think that's already the law. a few minutes ago, 90% of democrats in the senate voted for that idea. but it's not going to happen because 90% of republicans in the senate just voted against that idea. the gun lobby and its allies willfully lied about the bill. they claimed that it would create some sort of big brother gun registry. even though the bill did the opposite. this legislation in fact
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outlawed any registry, plain and simple, right there in the text. but that didn't matter. and unfortunately, spreading untruths about this legislation served the purpose because those lies upset an intense minority of gun owners and that in turn intimidated a lot of senators. there were no coherent arguments as to why we wouldn't do this. it came down to politics. the worry that that vocal minority of gun owners would come after them in future elections. they worried that the gun lobby would spend a lot of money and paint them as anti-second amendment. obviously a lot of republicans had that fear but democrats had that fear, too. and so they caved to the pressure. and they started looking for an excuse, any excuse to vote no. i've heard folks saying the families of victims lobby for
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this legislation was somehow misplaced. a prop, somebody called it. emotional black mail, some outlet said. are they serious? do we really think that thousands of families whose lives have been shattered by gun violence don't have a right to weigh in on this issue? do we think their emotions, their loss is not relevant to this debate? so all in all, this was a pretty shameful day for washington. but this effort is not over. i see this as just round one. and when newtown happened, i met with these families and i spoke to the community and i said
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something must be different right now. we're going to have to change. and that's what the whole country said. everybody talked about how we were going to change something to make sure this didn't happen again. just like everybody talked about how we needed to do something after aurora. everybody talked about, we need to change something after tucson. and i'm assuming the emotions that we've all felt since newtown, the emotions that we've all felt since tucson and aurora and chicago, the pain we share with these families and families all across the country who have lost a loved one due to gun violence, i'm assuming that's not a temporary thing. i'm assuming our expressions of grief and our commitment to do
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something different to prevent these things from happening are not empty words. i believe we are going to be able to get this done. sooner or later, we are going to get this right. the memories of the children demand it and so do the american people. thank you very much, everybody. >> rocks anna green will join me next. she's the mother of the christina taylor green who was the youngest victim in the tucson massacre. ♪ [ grunts ] yowza! that's why i eat belvita at breakfast. it's made with delicious ingredients and carefully baked to release steady energy that lasts... we are golfing now, buddy! [ grunts ]
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i could not stay still any longer. that they need to be ashamed of
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themselves. gun violence or who have had a child or a loved one murdered by a gun. >> that was patricia naish expressing her outrage. joining me for an exclusive interview, roxana green, the mother of christina-taylor green, the mother of the youngest victim in the tucson shooting. thanks for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> what was it like to be in the gallery today when you saw those votes go down? >> it was very, very disappointing. i was very disgusted by the outcome but not defeated. we'll be back. it will happen. >> and talk to us just on a personal level how you get the
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strength to mount a public crusade like this which inevitably is a constant reminder of the tragic way you lost your daughter. >> well, i come from very strong people. my mom was a very strong woman. my mother was a strong woman. christina would have been a very successful and strong woman had she not been robbed of the opportunity. so i am doing this for my daughter. i'm doing it for all of the children and innocent people out there. and i'm really confidant that it's going to happen. it didn't happen today but it will happen. >> roxana, one of the things that we keep hearing from the nra is that nothing that is being proposed would affect the outcome from these shootings and yet we know from the forensic evidence that your daughter was hit with a bullet some time after the 12th bullet and under what used to be a law in this country, imagimagazines were li
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to ten bullets. that's something dianne feinstein got passed years ago and the weaponry used in tucson if that the reloading would have occurred after ten and patricia and others would have brought that shooter down after ten bullets. >> yeah. you know, it's hard to think about or talk about for me because i realize that my daughter should -- would have been alive. i think the 13th or 14th bullet, she was running away from a madman. he shot her in the back in the heart. it's very upsetting. >> what is it like for you when you hear the nra and these senators as president obama said today lying. he used the word "lie." this was an anger level we don't see in him. i can't remember the last time i
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heard him use the word "lie" about what his opponents were doing. but one of the lies they tell is this lie about the imagimagazin when you know basically what the bullet number was that hit your daughter and they tell you that a ten-bullet limit on magazines would make no difference, what is it like for you to hear that? >> it's very disappointing. it's disgusting. i don't agree. i just have to mamrch on and fight the good fight. i don't have words for that. it's just heartbreaking to have to hear that. >> i want to read to you something that gabby giffords wrote that will in an op-ed tomorrow. speaking is difficult for me but my feelings are clear. i'm furious. i will not rest until we change our laws so we can look parents in the face to say we are trying
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to keep your schirn safe, we can not allow the status quo desperately protected by the gun lobby so they can make more money by spreading fear and misinformation to go on. i'm asking every reasonable american to tell the truth about the cowardice these senators demonstrated. that's from the congresswoman who your daughter went to see that day in tucson and it seems that president obama, his rage about this is shared by gabby giffords and others. >> i totally agree with miss giffords and i definitely agree with president obama and vice president biden and several other people out there. i agree with them 100%. that's all i can say. they said it better than i can. but i agree with them 100%. >> roxanna, green, thank you for
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sharing your experience with us. >> thank you very much. up next, boston is a city looking for answers and a lot of questions and kevin cullen, one of the great reporters of this time, he's going to be joining me next. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. yes, you could. when ouwe got a subaru.s born, it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up.
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. it's impossible for me to express my sadness and my anger,
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frankly, over those terrible events. it's just hard to believe that a patriots day holiday, normally a time of festivities, has turned into a bloody mayhem. but i know how resilient bostonians are and i think a lot of you do, despite the fact it took us 86 years to win a pendant. i talked this week with friends and family up there, as recently as this morning, and the granddaughter of a very, very close-up porter and friend of mine through all of my political career is fighting to keep both of her legs. you know, boston is not going to be intimidated by this, but we're going to find out who did this. >> joined now by "boston globe" columnist kevin cullen.
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you talk about how small a town this can be when it comes to stories like this. there's secretary of state who knows people who are involved in this, fighting these grievous injuries. your column points out that these firefighters when they got here the other day to get to the youngest victim whom we've all been talking about, martin richard, they knew exactly who this kid was. >> yeah. and larry, i've always said that boston is the smallest big city in america. >> yeah. >> and i think that came through when i talked to -- guys from engine 7 and ladder -- tower ladder 17. and but what i think was so much -- so impressive about what they did is that they worked on their friends and neighbors but they worked on strangers the same intensity and the same care that they gave to people that they came through the door and
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recognized. but i -- i mean, one of these firefighters, i talked to him, he did three combat tours in iraq and afghanistan and he was treated for ptsd. and i asked him, do you think you need more treatment now? and he looked off and he said, probably. i worry about our -- i mean, we're in a stage right now -- i mean, there is so much attention larry today about whether there's an arrest, whether there's a suspect, whether somebody's in custody. and i have to be honest, as i walked around the back today, that just wasn't entering my equation. i was thinking about the victims. we need to bury our dead. we need to honor our dead. we need to take care of our wounded. and we need to take care of our first responders because when i sat in that firehouse last night, i saw it in these faces.
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and i saw it yesterday walking down the treastreet, a copy kno she had been up for two days and i saw it in her face, she saw things no one should have to see. and we need to take care of those people. and i'm -- i'm actually very happy that the president is coming tomorrow because i think we need this time. i think we need sort of a healing moment. we'll take care of the -- i have no doubt they will catch and do whoever did this. i have no doubt. and whether the obsession with it happening tonight to me misses the point. we will get this person. i think tomorrow's more important. i think -- i'm glad the president is coming here. i think the town needs it. and i've got to tell you, this is my town and i've never been
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prouder of my town. never prouder. >> you know. >> i'm having the same reaction you are. i'm following the investigation but it's not what i'm focusing on. i learned to play baseball in the same fields that martin learned to play baseball. all the same places. and i was walking through there yesterday, today, and that's what i'm trying to explain this to people outside of here that we're not obsessing on what's the latest thing that's come out because we do have, number one, a confidence, as you say, but number two, we are still in another process. this city is having a wake. >> absolutely. >> we're still at the wake. and we're not fighting. we're not looking at -- we're just dealing with this grief. >> you know, larry, i think you know him, he passed away last year, a great guy name bruce
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bowen. i remember after he got made, the first thing he did was punish a political rival. he moved his office. the guy had a nice view, he put him in the basement. they had a big thing for him up at the apartment house, the mayor's residence. we went there back in 1988. i go up to bruce and say, a brother finally gets the job and what do you do? you act like an irish paul. he said you know what, kevin, in this town, we're all irish by osmosis. and i think we are. and i think the irishness of this town is taking over in the sense that we'll take care of that stuff down the road. >> right. >> we have to take care of our dead. >> right. >> we have to take care of our wounded and we have to take care of our first responders. that's the stuff we've got to do now. leave that other stuff. >> your father was a firefighter, my father was a boston cop for eight years or so and i think tha