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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  April 21, 2013 12:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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[ bleep ]. new video showing what it looked and sounded like just two doors down from where the boston bombing suspect was arrested. good sunday. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc. at any moment we could learn specifically which charges 19-year-old dzhokhar sars irv will face. what happens after that? >> this man should be designated a potential enemy.
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>> mirandizing him would be a horrible idea. >> calling for muslims in america -- >> 99% of muslims are outstanding americans. the fact is, that's where the threat is coming up. up to speed on the latest in the boston marathon investigation. again, the 19-year-old suspect still listed in serious condition. nbc news confirmed that the suspect was wounded in the throat, and at this point he cannot speak. meanwhile, people gathered today at a makeshift memorial at the marathon finish line. the governor of boston and the mayor calling for a moment of silent tomorrow afternoon at 2:58 p.m., the time of the blast. this aerial infrared footage showed how they were able to locate the suspect hiding out in a boat stored in a watertown backyard. that's not the picture of the infrared footage but we'll show it to you later.
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15 people still being treated at the boston hospital, three critical including one of them a 7-year-old girl. and at any moment, nbc's national correspondent michael isikoff is standing by in boston. mike, what's the word at this point on where they are in the process of filing this formal charge? is it still going to happen today? >> reporter: the word is they're very close. they are hoping to do it by late afternoon, perhaps by 5:30, 6:00. now, word of caution. they've said, set some tentative deadlines before. we thought we were going to get it by noon. yesterday we told we would get it by this morning. they're still working on it. but all indications are it's very close, and, look, just to be clear. this is not an indictment by a federal grand jury. what it will be is a criminal complaint backed up by an affidavit by an fbi agent that
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i'm told will have some additional details about the bombing plot, about how the bombs -- how the bomb was made, how the bombing parts were purchased, about the video surveillance that led them to dzhokhar tsarnaev, and the purpose is to show the evidence that they have against this guy, and they're going to lay some, but not all, of that out in the fbi affidavit. >> mike, precisely, specifically, what is he likely to be charged with? >> reporter: well, it's going to be terrorism-relatinged charges, and that could include a charge for use of weapons of mass destruction. the ied bombs will be, can fit under that section of the federal code, and that -- that and these other charges could -- would lead to the death penalty, if convicted. doesn't mean that the federal
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government will seek the death penalty, but these charges could result in the death penalty. we won't know whether the justice department is seeking the death penalty from this criminal complaint charge today. that will come much later. >> let's talk about the wound to the throat we're starting to hear about. that apparently has prevented him from being able to speak. how are interrogators going to get around this? just a simple, they ask questions and he writes or -- or what? >> reporter: well, all very good confess. the fact is, they have this high-valley interrogation team brought in tom question him. somewhat controversial and, you know, tested. they've used it a few times before. exactly the ground rules of this public safety exception, i think, could well be litigated in this case. the original concept of the public safety exception to reading you your constitutional rights is that there's a imminent threat to the safety of
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the public. now -- and that clearly seemed to be the case when he was taken into custody on friday night, because the first question was, were there other bombs out there, and could they learn about, from -- by questioning him where those bombs were? i think as more and more time elapses before he's able to speak and be impair gate nterroe could be questions. the broader aspect, the public safety includes do he have other accomplice, other international connections, others who may be planning other attacks? all of those are the kinds of questions that you would want to ask, and they'll say that fits under the public safety exception, but already the federal defender's office say egg it will be representing tsarnaev is cheapering to challenge this and arguing he
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needs to be read his constitutional rights. >> mike, quickly before i let you get out of here, how much do we know about what the suspect did after the bombing and before the shoot-out ? how he spent those days? >> reporter: well, we are learning a little bit more. we've talked to some of his fellow students at the -- at the university of massachusetts in dartmouth there, and they say they was back at school on tuesday. in fact, we've talked to one who saw him at the gym the next day, and so -- we don't have a full and complete picture, but at least from some of these accounts, he was going about business as usual, back at school. now, at least one of the people who saw him, saw that the gym said he seemed a little down and depressed. and was on tuesday, the day
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after the bombing. so make of that what you will. >> nbc's michael isikoff on the ground for us there in boston. again, on this sunday. mike, thanks. south carolina senator lindsey graham is leading the charge to label the boston marathon suspect an enemy combatant. he explained why on cnn this morning. take a listen. >> when the public safety exception expires and it will soon this man, in my view, should be designated as a potential enemy combatant and we should be allowed to question him for intelligence gathering purposes to find out about future attacks and terrorist organizations that may exist that he has knowledge of and that evidence cannot be used against him in trial. >> the american civil liberties union, aclu, opposes this, "we must not waiver from our tried and true justice system, even in the most difficult of times. denial of rights is un-american and will only make it harder to obtain a fair conviction." how will this play out politically? with me, stephen smith of "the
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boston globe," dave weigel and lynn sweet of the chicago sun-times. good to see you all on this sunday. lynn, let me start with you here at least. four our republican senators joined in lindsey graham's call to label him as an enemy combatant. how likely is it at this point that's going to happen? >> i think it's still a call that's yet to be made. you certainly had the democratic senators, some of them will say no. they will follow the same line of thinking that the aclu does. certainly in the sunday show this morning, senator dick durbin said he is opposed to having the trial in the military court. so i think this will play out largely on partisan lines. >> dave, you've done some reporting on this, and it sounds as if, again, there's a d distinction between labeled enemy combatant in terms of being question ed, but at this point it does not seem as it he can be tried as an enemy combatant? >> no. the starting question, enemy
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combatant for whom? the resolution in 2001 said that, oun enemy combatants are members of organizations that carried out the 9/11 attacks. we're not at war with chechnya, any organization connected to these terrorists so far, we're simply not at war with them. we should be in contact with russians what they know. i'm sure we are. the idea that these people, enemy combatants? treated as -- a 19-year-old naturalized as anne american citizen a little less than a year ago. talking with republicans at the start of the week, teeing this up, a foreign national, maybe a mill temporary tribunal. they want to the do this. clearly take whatever evidence is available at a moment in time and say designate him try nhim n a military tribunal. the more we learn, the less clear case is. >> and running for the state
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senate in massachusetts issued a statement saying, "i call upon the u.s. attorney for the district of massachusetts to institutes proceedings for the purpose of revoking the citizenship of dzhokhar tsarnaev, either by concealment of the material fact or by will ms. misrepresentation ". how about jumping on this bandwagon calling for his citizenship to be revoked? >> what's fascinating and coming out, filling a seat. in the coming days, we will see where they come out on this. they had suspended campaigning, but the three republicans, including michael sullivan, it should be noted was u.s. attorney in boston and acting
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head of atf during the bush administration, the republicans embarked on campaigning over the weekend. the two democrats have not, and the top contender, all polls so, u.s. representative edward markey -- so far, has not said anything publicly. >> we know at this point that the fbi did talk to the older brother. back in 2011, but they apparently did not find any links to terrorist activity. the "globe" is reporting there were rumblings, oversight committees, one aide telling "the boston globe" we heard for several days leading up to this there was no intelligence. now we know there could have been intelligence. what kind of backlash does the fbi now face? >> well, they are facing a backlash. it's happened already. almost every senator on the sunday show today said there are questions. the fbi in a statement i thought was pretty unusual actually a
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few days ago said that they talked to the older brother at the request of, we now know it's russia, and they -- he was -- they checked on the data bases's he was there. the question did they miss clues? didn't they have the legal tools to follow up? but this is something that the -- intelligence committees and various oversight committees in congress are going to be looking at. that's already in motion. >> dave weikle, obviously, the question of what we knew, what the fbi knew and when they knew it is going to be a major question. seems the bigts bigger question did the russian government know and why did we not know that? >> test of limits of president putin's promise to do whatever it took to help in the investigation. as to what lynn was saying about the discussion of the fbi, this is a real point of contention in congress and has been.
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republicans want to continue widening the definition of what the fbi can look at. whether the fbi -- whether missed intelligence, the government, should define radical islam and monitor muslims more than it does. that's going to take it up discussion. we learned today tamerlan was kicked off a mosque because being too radical. what peter king will do with that information, based on experience, say that's proof we need to more closely monitor people in this country. i'm not sure you need to go that far. this is somebody who was in a citizenship cue and had that process delayed because of going back and forth to russia. it might have been a specific case we missed and not something to look at as it expands ever more the investigation of muslims in general. something the system should have captured but we will discuss broad solutions, broad ideas not just republicans but national
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security hawks wanted whatever the situation is. >> we'll leave it there. go ahead, lynn. jump in. >> a quick point. this comes as the immigration bill is being kbeebt edebated i senate. >> we'll talk about that later in the broadcast. thanks to you all. appreciate your time. the fbi again, interviews, in e did not find any terrorist links to him. how did that happen? i'll ask a senior member of the intelligence committee, next. kniss is msnbc. when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes.
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we don't know, are there oh conspirators out there? other explosives out there? where do they get the radicalizations, imams we should be looking at?
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who did he meet with in russia and chechnya? only questions that can be obtained if he does not get his miranda rights. >> among of group of republicans calling for the boston bombing suspect to be considered an enemy combatant. that means he would not have the same constitutional protection as a regular citizen, with regard to what he says as the investigation moves forward. will this happen? california congressman, a senior member of the intelligence committee. congressman, always good to see you. i know that you disagree with the congressman and think that the suspect is in custody. is entitled to his miranda rights. why? >> well, i think the administration is handling it exactly correct. there is a public safety exception under the miranda allowing law enforcement to interview him, making sure there are no other bombs, threats, perpetrators still out there giving the law enforcement flexibility to do the that prior to miranda and i think the court will interpret it broadly and
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give them the time they need to make sure that the public is safe. after that, he will have to be mirandized, doesn't mean the end of cooperation, but no basis yet to conclude they should be treated at enemy combatants. we're talking about an american citizen on american soil. there's no evidence that i've seen yet that they were a part of an al qaeda cell or directed by a foreign government. we're very far afield from a situation which is sort of the paradigm for enemy combatant status. that is, someone captured on the balg battlefield in a theater of war. resist these charges as an enemy combatant. the court has proven capable of supporting a terrorist constitution and i'm confident the justice department with all the evidence we've seen and a lot more we haven't can build a very strong case. >> congressman, at this point we do nope that the older brother, that he traveled to russia from january to july of last year. chairman of the house homeland
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security, congressman, talked about that on cbs this morning. take a listen. >> what was he doing over there for six months? when he comes back, one of the first things he does is puts up a youtube site that has radical jihadist rhetoric on that website, and then, of course, nine months late pulls off the largest attack on american soil, terrorist attack, since 9/11. >> congressman does the intelligence that you've seen indicate he became radicalized while in chechnya, or was it here when he was living in the united states? >> you know, i don't think we really have a good sense yet, and we're going to be poring through any signals intelligence. there are countless interviews going on about people who knew these brothers both in the united states and overseas. what was involved in that trip. who they may have associated with. this may be a case, again, of really self-radicalization in the sense that this older
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brother felt very alienated. had no american friends, and was searching for an identity and went back to chechnya and found an identity, but whether there was actually foreign direction in that, whether this was really more the product of his self-motivation, we just don't know at this point, but you can bet we're going to find out and this is going to be a top priority, not only to get at what these brothers motivation was and whether they had any foreign direction, also to find out were there things we missed when the fbi went out and did that original interview, when the department of homeland security was considering the citizenship application, were there signs that we missed? you can better believe that the intelligence committee, we'll be hoarie ing poring over that. >> any idea how much information, specific information, we are going to be able to glean from the formal criminal complaint when filed only aer later today or tomorrow? >> i think we'll learn a great many things about some of the preparation that went into the attack. what the role of the brothers was. right now we have very little
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idea that's been released publicly about what one brother did as opposed to another brother. it will shed a lot of light and just to push back a bit on the point raised earlier by my colleague, mr. king, we have to be very careful not to stigmatize an entire community in america on the basis of the actions of two despicable people and we need to be careful about that. we'll follow the facts wherever they lead. that's what our law enforcement and intelligence agencies will do. let's not draw broad conclusions that would stigmatize and entire people. >> california gongman adam schiff, we'll thieve therleave . thank for your time. what the fcc is saying an the f bomb on the field yesterday. thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back
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stay firm. thank you. >> oh, boston red sox star david ortiz, delivering an emotional pregame speech yesterday at fenway park a day after police caught the boston bombing suspect. that profanity, apparently fcc approved. not a fine. the agency's chairman tweeted "david ortiz spoke from the heart at today's red sox game. i stand with big poppy, and the people of boston. into the political playground we go. that was right here, there it is. boston red sox player johnny gomes. we've got it. there's a special bat. what he's using today against the kansas city royals. with the names of the four vick timesdied in the boston attacks. and martin richard, lu lingzi, krystle campbell, sean collier, sean, the police officer killed wednesday night. and at the association b
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dinner, the president unveilaled his second term agenda. >> a quick preview of the secret agenda you can expect in a second obama administration. in first term i sang al green. in my second term, i'm going with yung jeezy. >> weez s'll see what he does. conan o'brien, the listed funny man. president obama will get a few laughs as well and i will be live from d.c. next weekend, next saturday night, for the play-by-play of the white house correspondents dinner. major flooding in the midwest. dozens of rivers overnid. the mississippi risen ten feet in 36 hours. live to illinois. and old the older tsarnaev
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brother spent his time. you're watching msnbc, the pla is for politics.
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family to me is the most important thing. >> when me and my family get together, it's absolute chaos. clusters of pustules, pimples. the soreness was excruciating. it was impossible to even think about dancing. when you're dancing, your partner is holding you. so, his hand would have been right in the spot that i had the shingles. no tango. no rhumba. you can't be touched.
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for more of the inside story, visit there was a moment of silence at the london marathon earlier today. runners in london honoring the victims in boston, and a show of solidarity. tens of thousands of runners also wore black ribbons. london was the first international marathon since the boston attack. good sunday to you. i'm craig melvin. a quick look at other stories making news -- ishs rescuers digging out in southwestern china. a massive earthquake killed at least 200 and injured more than 11,000. the 6.6 quake hit the szechuan province. secretary of state john kerry says the united states is doubling its non-lethal aid. secretary kerry announced the
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aid increase in turkey. the u.s. will give the rebels an additional $123 million bringing the total aid package now to $250 million. five people killed in an after larchl this weekend. snowboarding on colorado's loveland pass. a popular destination for back-country skiers and snowboarders. also in colorado, shots fired on 420. four hurt in a pro-marijuana raly. the victims' injuries were not life threatening but they're still looking for the shooters. colorado voted to legalize the recreational use of pot last year. right now, heavy river flooding is causing damage and forcing evacuations in six midwest states. at least one person died in indiana when floodwaters swept away his car. officials say the flooding could crest at more than 20 feet. these are some images from kokomo, indiana. and la grange, missouri as well.
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our nbc affiliate ksdk in st. louis county on the banks of the mississippi river where i understand they are bracing for significant flooding there. grant what do you have? >> reporter: yeah, craig. you know, there's already quite a bit of flooding along the mississippi river. that's causing ate of problems with barge companies at this point. check out the scene behind me. that barge you see in the middle of the mississippi river is one of 114 that broke away from its moorings in the port of st. louis late last night, around 10:30. what the coast guard told me today is that it broke loose and basically flowed downstream in his high water with enough force to crash into other barges along the riv around eventually more nan 100 started floating down-stream. the main concern in missouri, structures downstream would be struck by the barges. the jefferson barracks bridge that connects missouri to illinois. this bridge was struck at least
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four times by barges. the missouri department of transportation had to shut down this bridge to get down there and check its structural insymbol greainsbe insymbi integrity. these things are built to withstand impacts like that from boats come downing the river. no damage there. you mentioned flooding around mississippi, all of the midwest, we've been keeping a close eye on the city of clarksville, a little north of st. louis. there are major sandbagging operations going on there right now. the governor was there yesterday declaring a state of emergency. they're asking for volunteers to come out here and try to fight off these rising waters as much as they can, because it is a historic town in risk of losing their post office, been there a long, long time and many other businesses say if they flood again, they will not come back. kind of a frightening scene h e
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unfortunately we see when you live along a body of water like this. fortunately we haven't heard of tragedies or devastation but we're keeping an eye on this. water levels are expected to crest there north of st. louis around clarksville, around 10:30 late tonight and then tomorrow we're expecting to see a lot more flooding as it flows further south. right now, the army corps of engineers and coast guard have about a 15-mile stretch of the mississippi closed down right now as they try and gather up the barges. we're told ten of them have been confirmed sunk. there are at least two more that are unaccounted for right now. a major operation, and a lot of people staying very busy along the riverfront here on the mississippi. send it back to you. >> grant bissell from our nbc affiliate with the very latest from st. louis county. thank you so much for that. back to boston. new questions be a the older tsarnaev brother. that visit to dagestan in
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southern russia where he spent six months last year. who he met and what he did there? in dagestan, following this part of the story, joining us via telephone, adrian, at this point what do we know about the older brother's visit there and what do we know about who he met? >> reporter: good day, craig. well, we know that he went to see an uncle who is very, very religious, who is not an official imam, which is a spiritual leader, preacher-type, but what they talked about isn't clear to us. it's possible that he sought guidance from him. we spoke to another family re hiv who knows they met and tamerlan stayed with this uncle. there have been also reports of sightings. we've spoken to people who claimed they saw him at a local
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mosque, and he recognized him, because of his height and his very physical, athletic physique. athleticism is valued in this part of the world so it's the kind of thing people notice about one another and also because he was an american. very, very rare to see an american here, but i believe authorities both in this part of the world and in the u.s. are still trying to establish who he might have met that might have been of interest to them. >> what's the latest? i know you've talked to neighbors of the father. what's the latest on the family there in dagestan? >> reporter: well, the father hasn't been seen in public the last day. of course, we all know that he spoke to a lot of media, including nbc news, when he expressed disbelief. didn't understand how this could have happened. but we're also hearing, we just heard from the father late tonight. we spoke to him on the phone and
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it sounds like he's planning to get legal advice. he has consulted with human rights activists. we met one actually earlier today. she said they're very concerned. the story doesn't seem to add up and one of the things they cite is the family background. this is a family that is relatively prosperous. especially because he came from the states. the children, the son they thought were very well educated. certainly one of them, dzhokhar, had seemed to adjusted to the u.s. and was enjoying life. human rights activists as well as the family don't understand what could have motivated the sons. >> the very latest, thanks again, adrienne, for keeping us up to date. back here, who, what, but not much on the why. we continue to get more tidbits about who the tsarnaev brothers are and how the bombings went down, but a lot of questions
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about a possible motive. back in 2011, the fbi interviewed the older brother at et request of the russian government. tamerlan traveled to russia last year. stayed about six months. the big question right now, though is how did he spend his time there? an nbc news terrorist analyst, robin mcfadden served as the special agent in charge and deputy assistant director foreintelligence operations. good to have you both in the studio. you've been anne interrogator, we're been talking about this, the throat injury the suspect has, he's in serious condition. how do you interrogate someone who can't speak? you ask questions and they write on a pad? >> that's one possibility, but here we have just another challenge on top of a challenge under these circumstances. first and foremost, it's the medical clearance from the doctors working hand and glove with the personnel, the investigators on-scene and then once that medical clearance is given, and actually even before
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then, there could be a period where there's a personal connection, or a bond with -- i've been in situations before, serious injuries, but before there's a full medical clearance, could you actually be in the room near the subject. in this case, the medical clearance is given, it could be writing. it could be other ways to get through. >> but in terms of the tactics, this high-level interrogation team to use to try and get some information from a suspect like this, him not being able to speak, i would imagine, makes that ate more difficult? >> absolutely. >> let's talk about the digital footprint. what do we know? what have investigators been able to glean so far from either of the brothers, facebook pages, twitter accounts, youtube? >> it appears we have at least one individual, tamerlan who had adopted an ideology or perspective that is aligned with, you know whashs we associated with something, the jihadist perspective, hard line
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gee audist perspective. a very negative view of shiites, of islamics sects not acceptable to groups like al qaeda, bust honestly, there's more to this. there's got to be. in fact, the mother of tamerlan was interviewed in russian media saying he was visits extremist websites. so far all we've seen, postings on social media sites. if he really was visiting extremist websites we haven't the seen the sites yet. it's important to figure out here are we talking about the official spokesman of the chechen or al qaeda websites? a big differentiation. a lot of people visit the official chechen site. there aren't that many registered members on al qaeda social networking forums, and that's the direction we're really going to be looking for. is there really a jihady link here? did these guys come up with this on their own? what's the connection there? >> the 26-year-old tsarnaev
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brother who's dead, who died in the shoot-out, what's the likelihood that he left behind some sort of video? because apparently -- oftentimes, suicide bombers that we've seen these videos, read about the videos, is there a chance there may be some of that here? >> yeah. exactly what investigators are doing. grabs the hard drives on every single computer either of these two brothers had contact with. hard drives in relatives' houses and looking through there. looking for video recordings. they're looking for audio recordings and they're looking for web cookies, because they want to know exactly what websites these individuals were visiting, who they were e-mailing. who they were sending messages to. these computers can be a wealth of information, and we've seen that this information has been definitive in a lot of modern terrorism cases. >> robert, call your attention, you probably saw this piece in "the boston globe." it raises a red flag. another red flag, about the older brother. an excerpt. whatever his motivation,
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following a similar path to that of some insurgents in the north caucasus who want focussed on achieving secular for homeland and ended up intertwined in international gee aujihadist ne, number one enemy, america. how has this changed, viewing the nationalist movement in the that part of the world? >> sure. really supplementing things that evan said. heretofore, myself and the working terrorism issues, chechen sojourner es have been involved in a lot of different fronts. whether bosnia, afghanistan and other places like that. typically more of a mainstream muslim perspective and small numbers, the jihady theory strained with al qaeda by number, up to this point we haven't had anything that we know of directed and tanked by chechen elements of any kind. fought in afghanistan, and typically go home, fight for
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their separatist cause there and terrorist acts in russia. here's the key right now. again, as this is put together, as evan said, by all investigators and intelligence involved, if you have a situation here where a group trained him, tasked him, dispatched him, unprecedented. still, it just goes to point out, though, we had the same thing with the faisal shahzad, times square bomber, who linked up with a group, pakistani taliban, fight was local in islamabad bus they dispatched him here. again, through all the information that's coming together, we'll see if it's, if it portends something here unforeseen. >> today, maybe together, we'll get the formal charges. in those formal charging documents, one would assume we will learn even more what was being planned and how it was going to play out? >> true and caution that, temper that, the investigation is still
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ongoing. just because documents are filed, a secondary document t e timed with reams of additional information. i don't pretend to suggest there won't be interesting information in this indictment, but don't look for a smoking gun. if there's a tie to an overseas organization that really might not come out until much later, if there is such a tie. >> thank you both. up next, we flash back to the day john doe number one became timothy mcveigh. this is msnbc. we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed: the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years.
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visible wrinkle reduction starts day 1. see younger looking skin before you finish one jar. new from olay. already under arrest, timothy mcveigh, who authorities now know to have been the man they originally referred to as john doe number one. the other principle suspect in the bombing. mcveigh moved in handcuffs and leg irons from perry, oklahoma, to a federal prison outside
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oklahoma city. >> timothy mcveigh under arrest on this day in 1995 for his role in the oklahoma city bombings. he was, of course, ultimately convicted, executed back in 2001. the explosion at the alfred p. murrah federal building killed 168 people and injured more than 500. it was the worst terror attack on u.s. soil until september 11, 2001. up next, those who lost limbs in the boston bombing a view of what life might be like in the day, weeks, months and years to come. this is msnbc.
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what's your policy? i feel blessed. amy was ten feet away from an explosion where hundreds of people were injured and i had just run through the finish line 30 seconds before. >> that's joe barte there, whose wife, amy, survived the boston marathon bombings.
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and get this, days later, the couple returned to texas where joe was a witness to the massive fire and explosion at the fertilizer plant in the town of west. 52 people remain hospitalized in boston nearly a week after the deadly marathon bombing. more than 170 were injured in the blasts. 14 of those have had amputations of all or part of their legs. lieutenant colonel is with us. good to have you with me. >> craig, my pleasure to be here. >> i understand you oversee the care of soldiers that return from combat with serious injuries. for the folks in boston, what's ahead, for some of those most seriously injured by the blast? >> well, with my experience, taking care of the service members that have come back, it's a difficult way ahead. there will be no easy about it, but what we do know is that
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there is a way ahead. they do have a future, they will be back up on their feet again. they will be using their extremities again, and they will have a productive life. >> you've treated well over a thousand seriously wounded service members there. what kind of advancements have been made in the treatment of those who have lost limbs? >> there are certainly numerous announcements. everybody looks towards the prosthetic limb advancement as being one of the numerous announcements. one of the things we can tout here at the center for intrepid is having all these service members together. craig, i think one of the most important things this early on in their injuries is what we call peer support. when we have a service member that's coming from overseas, the things going through his or her head are similar to probably what is going through the heads of the survivors of the boston explosion. and all they're wondering is, are they going to have that quality of life back. i think one of the most
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important things, and i don't know if you can call them an advancement, but probably one of the most important things is having someone who's been through that walk into their room, literally, walk into the room with their new legs and show them that there is a way forward and there is a quality of life that they're going to be able to get to. >> someone who's been where they are, that can say to them, listen, i know it seems bad, i know the nights seem darker than they've ever been, but i did it and so can you. >> right, exactly. it's invaluable. >> let's talk for a moment, again, i know that you obviously focus on the physical, but let's talk really quickly here about the mental, about the emotional how difficult is that going to be for some of these folks to get over? >> well, i can tell you over the past 11 years, i've seen both ends of that. some people incredibly strong with very, very strong family support and very strong unit support that seem to bounce back very quickly. there's the other end also, and those are the ones that we pay
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quite a bit of attention to and help them get along. and it's that mentality of keeping everybody together and that mentality of your buddy helping you recover from those experiences that i think is the most valuable. >> how long of a recovery process are we talking about for a lot of these folks, physically? >> physically, it all depends on where your wounds are. certainly, some of our patients that lost one single limb below their knee can be out of our facility in about six months. some of our patients who have lost multiple extremities, sometimes they're there for two years. it all depends what their injury level is and also what their goals are. all of our rehab is goal based. what the patient wants to do is what we focus on. and those goals change throughout their recovery. so somebody who we thought might be a six-month recovery, their goals have changed to be that much more higher activity, then they stay a little bit longer
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and we take care of them until they can reach their goals. >> lieutenant colonel donald gajewski, colonel, thank you for your time and thank you for all that you do. >> craig, it's my pleasure. massachusetts does not have a death penalty, but could the suspects still be sentenced to death? the latest on the investigation and what he faces, next. also ahead, former longtime mayor of boston, ray flynn, will join me to talk about what's next for beantown. [ female announcer ] nature valley protein bars, with simple, real ingredients, like roasted peanuts, creamy peanut butter, and a rich dark-chocolate flavor, plus 10 grams of protein, so it's energy straight from nature to you. nature valley protein bars. departure. hertz gold plus rewards also offers ereturn-- our fastest way to return your car. just note your mileage and zap ! you're outta there ! we'll e-mail your receipt in a flash, too. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. you know the average one can cost you over $4 a meal per person?
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>> so would a city like boston be okay with cameras on every corner? we're going to ask the city's former mayor that question. and later, how the background of the boston suspects may impact the immigration debate in washington. first, though, let's bring you up to speed in the very latest on the boston marathon bombings. bostonians gathered today at a makeshift memorial at the marathon's finish line. governor deval patrick and boston's mayor, tom ma nino are calling for a moment of silence tomorrow afternoon at 2:50, the time of the blast. meanwhile, this aerial infrared footage right there showed how police were able to locate the surviving suspect, hiding out in that boat being stored in a watertown backyard. meanwhile, some 52 people are still being treated in boston hospitals. three of them remain in critical condition, including a 7-year-old little girl. federal prosecutors again could be filing charges against dzhokar tsarnaev any moment now. we're told the suspect is still listed in serious condition.
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he was wounded in the throat and at this point, we're told he's unable the to talk. our justice correspondent, pete williams, is standing by for us in d.c. pete, we'll get to the throat in just a moment. first, though, any late word on when those charges could come down? >> as a matter of fact, i just checked, craig, and there's still no decision on whether they'll be filed today or tomorrow. we originally expected them yesterday. there was some indication they might be filed then. we expect them today, but they may or may not be filed. they're still working on them. there's still some questions about material that they're trying to include in the court documents, so i think the answer is we just don't need. >> pete, typically in documents like the formal charging documents, what do we get? what more are we going to learn from those documents? >> well, we'll get the list of criminal charges on which he will be held. now, this is a two-step complaint -- a two-step process in the federal system. you first file this complaint, which is the reason that you're holding them, why they're under
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arrest. and later on, there'll be an indictment. so the list of charges today isn't the end. they can add charges later, as it goes through the process. but it will be the first, and i would suspect, fairly comprehensive list of the charges. and then we also get a document which spells out the reason they're charges them. and there's going to be a fair amount of detail about the nature of what they discovered during the investigation, sort of a statement in general about what the evidence is against them. >> let's talk about this injury now and what that could mean for the investigation, what that could mean for the interrogation, as well, again. we learned today that there is an injury to the 19-year-old suspect's throat. how major of setback is that going to be for investigators? that inability to speak? >> well, it certainly delays things. it's not clear whether he cannot speak at all or whether he can speak only a little, but in any event, he's not conversant as
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you and i are, so that certainly is a complication. >> pete, i want to really quickly listen to you on "meet the press" this morning, and for our viewers who are watching right now, this talk about miranda rights and enemy combatant, give us the rundown again, because i thought your explanation this morning was fantastic. so for folks who may have missed that, can you break it down for us again? >> i hope i can be as clear as whatever i said this morning, but whenever you arrest someone, you give them the miranda warning. you have the right to be silent, right to a lawyer, anything you say can be used in court against you, that sort of thing. and that's required you give that sort of warning to a suspect before you start the questioning or you can't use any of their answers in court as evidence against them. that's the normal rule. but there's an exception to the rule called a public safety exception. and what the courts have said is if it's important to get information quickly, in order to safeguard public safety, then you can ask questions without giving a miranda warning and
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still use that evidence in court. but the period during which you can ask the questions is fairly brief and the nature of the questions you ask has to be addressed to any potential threat, such as, were there accomplices, were there other explosives, that kind of thing. now, as a separate matter, some members of congress, some republicans have said, this is the wrong approach, that they agree he should ultimately be charged and tried the in civilian court. so they're not saying he should be tried as an enemy combatant, but they say he should be declared an enemy combatant for now, in order to let intelligence officials do all the interrogating. that's their argument. in any event, the obama administration has made the decision they're not going to do that and they're going to do it as i indicated earlier. >> nbc's pete williams, justice correspondent for nbc, pete, thanks as always, sir. >> you bet. the big debate, as pete just mentioned there, the big debate brewing out of boston, over how to treat the bombing suspect who's now in custody and whether he should be labeled an enemy
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combatant. chairman of the house intelligence committee, mike rogers, weighed in this morning. take a listen. >> he's a citizen of the united states. i think that brings all of the protections of the u.s. constitution under the public safety exception, however, i do believe that the fbi has a period of time to try to determine what threats are there today. we don't know if there are other devices, other people, and i think plannmirandizing him up-f would be a horrible idea. >> peter alexander standing by for us at the white house. pete, what's the president and white house saying about all of this? >> reporter: the white house have been very measured throughout the course of all of this. you'll recognize, you department hear from the president, absent the comments he made in boston trying to console the community and really trying to inspire that community until after an arrest had been made. the white house staying behind the scenes through the course of this. when it comes to the conversation you just wrapped up with pete williams, according to the issue of enemy combatants and some lawmakers suggesting this 19-year-old suspect should
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be tried as an enemy combatant. it dates backs to december 31s of 2011, when the president put out a statement at that time saying that it is this administration's policy that they would not pursue any individual to put him into military detention if they are an american citizen. the white house insists and the administration insists and it is their policy that they will pursue this case in criminal court. >> peter alexander from the white house for us on this sunday. peter, as always, thank you. >> meanwhile, new york republican congressman peter king is calling for more surveillance of the muslim community following the boston marathon attack. >> 99% of the muslims are outstanding americans. the fact is, that's where the threat is coming from. when the fbi went after the westies, they went after the irish community. when they went after the mafia, they went for the italian community. if you know a threat is coming from a certain community, that's where you have to look. >> congressman king went on to
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say, it's time to stop being, quote, politically correct. congressman, let me go ahead and get your response what we just heard from congressman king, that argument that we need to look at where the threat is coming from. >> congressman king is absolutely being disrespectful to the muslim community. what he is proposing puts a target on the backs of millions of muslims, including myself, another member of congress, numerous law enforcement officials, judges, attorneys, educators, and the like who love this country and who are helping to make this country a better place. were it not for the help of the muslim community, there have been numerous terrorist efforts that have been thwarted throughout the years because of help from muslims. and what peter king is proposing is rooted in xenophobia and outright disrespect. >> how surprised are you that this has been the reaction? and we just played a clip from
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peter king, but i'm sure you're familiar with some other folks who we've heard from over the past few days. how surprised are you that there has been this kind of backlash, from a few people? >> well, it's disappointing. i can remember several years ago, growing up in the black community, wherever there was a bank robbery or a robbery of a local grocery store, people would absolutely cringe, because they were hoping that the person wasn't african-american. we're seeing the same thing today, essentially, in the muslim community. whenever there's a terrorist threat or an act like the one perpetrated against the wonderful people of boston. and let me say this, i want to salute and commend the people of boston and the law enforcement community. because, craig, they're true american heroes. but having said that, muslims should not be afraid. muslims must stand up and muslims must work together cooperatively, with the law enforcement community, in bringing people who threaten the community and threaten the faith to justice. >> and we should note that in the days after the attacks in
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boston and when it was revealed that the two suspects are of the islamic faith, there were a number of muslims in this country, a number of bostonens in this country that held news conferences and vigils in an attempt to distance themselves from what we have here. >> i commend them for that work. shortly after this terrible tragedy, i met with a group of national muslim leaders, and there was a brainstorming session about how we can help the law enforcement community and the greater community, in a holistic way, in helping to prevent these kinds of attacks in the future. >> so no additional surveillance at all? >> well, i think, as someone who worked in counterterrorism and counterintelligence, there is an absolute need for us to work together with the law enforcement community, but a lot of the apprehension coming from the muslim community has roots and legitimacy, date back to the early 20th century, and even j.
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edger hoover's program. but having said that, we are seeing those relationships improve throughout the country, through the fbi's joint law enforcement task forces throughout the country, state law enforcement and local law enforcement. the question becomes, how can we strengthen these relationships beyond just a relationship that's taken place historically. >> really quick here, 30 seconds, because there is a great deal of ignorance in this country when it comes to the islamic faith. for folks who don't understand the difference between islam and radical islam, give us the 101 here? >> well, islam represents peace, will be islam condemns killing people. you know, we often hear the words "jihad," but the jihad reference largely references an internal wrestling with good and evil, within one's self.
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not what we're seeing and not some of the crazies that are purporting to represent the faith. no different than having the ku klux klan claiming to represent christianity. >> appreciate your time, sir. >> an honor, sir. as the people in boston mourn the dead and tend to the wou wou wounded, they are also starting the process of moving on. i'll talk about what they're doing now, how they're going to go about doing that. and some are suggesting what happened in boston should cause congress to slow down things on immigration reform. we'll take a look at the connection straight ahead. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics.
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the patience and cooperation
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of our residents of this area have been a critical factor in the success of law enforcement's investigation and will be equally important as the city works to reclaim and restore our history. >> that was boston mayor tom menino, moments ago, reopening copley square there. of course, the square has been closed ever since last monday, when those bombs went off at the end of the boston marathon. you know what, we're going to actually dip in right now. i think we can dip in and listen a little bit later. i understand the mayor's taking -- that's not the mayor, who is that? they're taking some questions there. they're taking some questions with regards to the investigation. let's take a listen. that's the police chief right there, by the way. [ inaudible question ] >> i wouldn't talk about his specific injuries, but he's not in a condition to be interrogated at this point.
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>> you mentioned he was in serious condition. you now said he's in critical but stable condition. has there been any change? >> i think there's different ways of describing the same situation. the stable part of it has happened over the last few hours. so he's stabilized, but serious or critical, i think, i wouldn't change. >> finally, can you mention what was found at the scene in watertown. the second scene where the suspect was arrested, was he found with any weapons? and if so, what were they? >> that scene is being processed by the fbi. i wouldn't have any comment on that at all. >> thank you, guys. thank you very much. >> all right, that was chief edward davis there, giving us just a little bit of information there. we're going to try to go back and see what we missed there. again, talk about, it sounds like he was talking about the latest on the suspect and also a little bit more on the investigation as well. but, again, we're going to pull some of that and get the new information to you in just a few moments. meanwhile, the front page of the "boston globe" today, essentially said it all right
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there, edging toward normal with healing still to do. bostonians have been going through a lot this past week, with massachusetts governor, deval patrick, vows they will recover. take a listen. >> let me just say that i think the boston police, it's a lot of total security out there, but when you have crowds coming back and forth and hundreds of thousands of people out there, millions of people out there, how do they check everybody's bag? how do they check -- so we have many cameras, one of the things that helped in this investigation were the many cameras we had in copley square area of the marathon. >> that was, again, boston mayor there, tom menino. that was not deval patrick. with more now on what's next as the city and america tries to move on, joined now by ray flynn, a former mayor of boston. he is also, of course, former u.s. ambassador to the vatican. ambassador, good to see you, as always. >> hi, craig. >> certainly, a lot of elation in the air right now, now that the final suspect is in custody. but how fearful do folks still
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remain there in boston? >> well, people were really wounded and hurt over the past week. the unspeakable happened in boston, an open, free city. people of varied backgrounds and diversity never expect iing anything like this could happen. now that it happened, craig, the issue is, what can we do about it to make sure nothing like this ever happens again. let me tell you one thing, we can stop blaming america and some of the people on tv have, in fact, been doing that. you know, america is the land of opportunity. we give people opportunities to come to this country and to go to the best schools, to get the best opportunities, to lead a happy and productive life. and we've got to stop blaming americans for what -- for the terrorist activities that took place at the boston marathon on monday. look, we welcome immigrants into our city. boston is, in fact, a city of immigrants. but these people come to the
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city. the immigrants come to our city like our families, like my family, they come here to seek hope and opportunity. we have to find out, those terrorists that come here because they want to destroy the united states, those are the policies that we have to put in place, and there are specific things that we can do, whether we have the political will to do it, that remains to be seen. >> it sounds like you're concerned about some backlash that's already started to happen in boston. is that accurate? has there been backlash there? >> there certainly has. there's been to a number of events, all across this city, today, yesterday, the day before. i've spoken to a lot of people. people want public safety to be restored. they want every step that can be possibly taken within the framework of our constitution and of our law. that's why i supported the mayor for the reopening of the city streets for the cameras to be located in strategic areas of
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the city, for inspecting bags, people carrying these backpacks into densely populated areas of the city. craig, i was at the boston marathon. i was at the finish line, my daughter, my four grandchildren were sitting at the finish line. a bomb didn't go off that was right in the stands where they were. now, look, if any of us have reason to be concerned, it is a valid one. and what we're looking for is now the federal government, we're pleased that they came in and they made some beautiful statements, they united the people, they made us feel good. now we want more than feel-good statements. we want specific, constructive policies and programs that are going to give the authorities public safety authorities. >> like what? specifically, what more do we want from the federal government? do we want even more cameras in boston? >> well, i would welcome that, yes, i would welcome that. i would welcome the inspection of these backpacks going into
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densely populate communities. craig, let me tell you something. the 9/11, when the terrorists were sworn in, i was there. i was the lead speaker at that event, at the boston garden. i never or none of us expected that any one of those people, when they put their right hand up to swear an oath of allegiance to protect and defend the constitution of the united states, with the terrorists in there trying to bomb the boston marathon and destroy and kill innocent people why can't we find that out before they become citizens of the united states? >> how do you do that? >> well, you go through a long, detailed investigation of their backgrounds, their motives, their intents. are you telling me that none of these colleges and these schools that they went to -- look, the family is coming on television now saying that they noticed an incredible change in the attitude of these two young men.
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look, the fbi even interrogated them. where did they get that information? they got that information from some people who brought that information to the fbi. the fbi listened to them. they thought it was substantial enough to listen to them and to hear what they had to say. but the fbi let them go. that was wrong, apparently, as we know now, in retrospect. so why couldn't the fbi continue to follow up on some of these serious accusations that were made about the patriotism and the reliability and the credibility of these terrorists that we now know are terrorists? >> ambassador ray flynn, former mayor of boston, ambassador, thank you very much for your time on this sunday. >> yes, sir. it was no boston marathon, but even a 5k walk in new york city gets serious security in the wake of what happened last week. and coming up, the latest on another big story this week, the blast that virtually levelled a town in texas. some signs of hope today in the west. we'll go there as well. you're watching msnbc. acceler-rental.
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a 5k run/walk was held in manhattan today as a memorial to september 11th. in the wake of the boston bombings last week, the nypd spared no precaution for security. there were lots of dogs there, explosive dogs, scent-tracking dogs. they were all deployed inside the pier and along the route as well. trash cans along the route were also removed, we're told, on this lovely spring day. the walk went off without a hitch. some residents are returning to their homes in west texas today. the small town north of waco is recovering from that massive fertilizer explosion there that's leek. the blast killed at least 14, injured close to 200 others. nbc's charles hadlock is in west texas for us. charles, what's the latest there? >> reporter: hi, craig. well, today was a day of prayer here in the town of west. just about every church pew was filled with people and also some of the first responders who have
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arrived theo ed here from aroun region. they attended services here as well. the baptist church, which was in the zone that was damaged by the blast, they held services here at the fairgrounds in an open field. investigators say they have pinpointed the center of the disaster, the center crater. now, that's important, because they can now determine exactly what was there and try to reconstruct not only what caused the explosion, but more importantly, what caused the fire that triggered the explosion. several blocks of homes were flattened by the explosion. an apartment complex was also ransacked along with the nursing home that was severely damaged. several blocks of town have returned to their homes. several hundred residents are returned late yesterday, but they don't have running water. the mayor says several underground pipes have cracked and they are working to repair those. they say it will be several more days, perhaps, before people can even get close enough to see the damaged zone, to see their property, what's left. they say they want to security
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some of the natural gas lines that may have ruptured. they just want to make sure it's safe before people try to go back to find out what's left of their homes. craig? >> charles, you know, i was there with you on friday, in west texas. there was some confusion, then, over the precise number of people who are still missing. have they been able to clear up that figure at all? >> yes, they have. everyone has been accounted for. there are no more missing people and the death toll remains at 14. 11 of those were first responders, who came to try to put out the fire in the first place. what they're trying to determine now is what started that fire that killed 14 people. >> and i also understand that the plant where this thing happened, there had been, in the past, at least one safety issue, if not more. is that accurate? >> well, they're still going through the records. they did have several tons of ammonium nitrate fertilizer. of course, that's what they tha
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made. the question is, is there a limit? what is the limit of ammonium nitrate fertilizer that one company can store without notifying federal authorities? it's an unknown question right now and something they'll be looking closely at. >> ammonium nitrate, also one of the ingredients used in the oklahoma city bombings back in 1995. charles hadlock, thank you, sir, do appreciate that report from west texas for us on this sunday afternoon. and again, folks, we continue to await charges being officially filed against the surviving suspect in the boston marathon bombing. we will let you know when that happens. also, some members of congress want to slow down immigration reform in the wake of the boston bombing. could it kill the effort? we'll take a look at that. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics.
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a moment of silence at the london marathon earlier today. runners in london honoring the victims of boston in a show of solidarity. tens of thousands of runners also wore black ribbons.
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london was the first international marathon since the boston attack. good sunday to you. i'm craig melvin. here's a quick lack at some of the other top stories making the news right now. the cleanup begins in southwestern china today. a huge earthquake there saturday morning killed at least 200 and injured more than 11,000. the quake in the sichuan province struck not far from where that massive quake killed 70,000 people back in 2008. secretary of state john kerry says the united states is upping its monetary aid to the syrian opposition. secretary kerry announced that aid today in turkey. the u.s. will be giving the rebels an additional $123 million. that brings the total aid package now to $250 million. and a shooting on 4/20. three people were hurt in denver this week at a pro-pot rally. denver police say that the victim's injuries were not life threatening, but they are still looking for the shooters. you might remember, colorado voted to legalize the recreational use of pot last
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year. >> i want to update you really quickly. we showed you a few moments ago, that news conference that was happening at the reopening of copley square. we told you that we would let you know what the boston police commissioner at davis said. not a great deal of new information there. he did say that the suspect remains in critical but stable condition. also confirming what we've been reporting, that the suspect at this point, that 19-year-old suspect, is not in a position to be interrogated, and the commissioner, commissioner davis did say that he suspects charges to come in the near future, could be later today, could be tomorrow, but, again, we're expecting the formal filing of charges to happen in the near future. but, again, copley square reopened in boston six days after the bombing. there's talk now about what the boston marathon bombing could mean for the immigration reform bill just introduced last week. senator marco rubio was in las vegas last week talking about that immigration bill, but he ended up having to answer a lot of questions about whether legalizing immigration is the
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right thing to do right now in light of what's happened in boston. rubio insisted that the reform effort should go forward, but this morning, indiana senator dan koethe said immigration reform should be put on hold for some time. >> i'm afraid we'll rush to some judgments, relative to immigration and how it's processed, so let's do it in rational way rather than an emotional way. >> all right. we're going to get to that in just a moment. while i was in that sound bite, we just got word, literally seconds ago, that the formal charges against the 19-year-old suspect, those charges are not going to come today. could be tomorrow, but, again, not going to be happening today. and we're also aware that there might be an additional news conference this afternoon to give us new details about the investigation as it moves forward. and just got word that that news conference suspect going to be happening today. no news conference today, no formal charges today. we should learn more information tomorrow. i want to bring in the brain trust now to talk about this connection now between immigration reform bill and the boston bombing.
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goldie taylor, msnbc contributor, managing editor of the goldie taylor project, dave weigel back with us, contributing reporter at slate, also an msnbc contributor, and peter sudeman, good to see all of you on this sunday. dave, let me start with you. you've done some original reporting on this. how has boston complicated immigration reform in d.c.? >> it hasn't, really, not yet. we're going to see, as we learned, more details about this particular situation. but you saw marco rubio push back and you saw charles schumer push back very quickly on friday, against the idea that their immigration bill is at relevant to what happened in boston. that anything that happened in boston should slow it down. and the argument that i think you'll start to see democrats make is that, look, if we have a more sophisticated system, you know, letting us know who is in the country, if we have more t background checks for everyone illegal in the country right
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now, that's going to free up resources. this bill is necessary to do that. the idea that dan koethe was putting out there, that we are rushing to judgment on immigration reform, it seems like the opposite of what's actually happening. if we're rushing to judgment, it's going to be a rush on the legality and the investigation of terrorism. it's not going to be on this bill, which they're able to read without much of a relationship to what happened in boston. they're talking about somebody who became an american citizen last year, that much is relevant, but i think the details of the bill wouldn't have affected that at all. >> goldie, on immigration reform hearing on capitol hill last week, this is iowa senator chuck grassley questioning the new bill. take a listen. >> how can individuals evade authority and plan such attacks on our soil? how can we beef up security checks on people who wish to enter the united states? how do we ensure that people who wish to do us harm are not eligible for benefits under the
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immigration laws including this new bill before us? >> goldie taylor, again, that's senator grassley there talking about some steps that could be taken in the wake of what happened to boston, to help things in the future. but at the end of the day, goldie taylor, if someone is hell bent on wreaking havoc in this country, especially a soft target, what more can we do? >> you know, i think that my friend, dave weigel, has the point here. there is nothing in this current legislation, you know, that's been so far agreed to in this deal that would impact this situation. these young men came here as boys. i believe that one was about 15, one was about 8 years old. i'm not sure what you might have found in their background to keep them from coming into this country or what you might have found in their background to keep them from becoming citizens in this country. the fact of the matter is, we have to have a pathway to citizenship for the people who bring a meaningful contribution into this country every day. they are part of our workforce, they are part of our educational communities. you know, they are a part of our
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social fabric. and so we've got to find a way to bring people who are here nor the greater good into this social fabric. on the other hand, we do have to find meaningful ways that we can check the background, check the voracity of what people say when they're coming into this country to make sure that we can remove as many threats as possible. but we're not going to mitigate all threats. at the end of the day, we have to be thoughtful about this, but there's nothing about boston that could derail comprehensive, long overdue, immigration policy. >> peter, what more should we do to mitigate some of these things? >> through an immigration reform bill, there's not a lot. if immigration reform was a good idea before boston, it's a good idea now. and the horrific actions of two individuals should not, you know, hold up a bill that really could help 10 million or 12 million illegal immigrants. if anything, an immigration bill could be actually helpful to law enforcement, because what it would do is allow them to track
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and actually see people who are, you know, we have people who are legal in this country and people who wouldn't be bent on avoiding law enforcement and avoiding any kind of contact with the police. and they would be more likely to cooperate and more interested in cooperating. >> that's an interesting theory. a quick break here. i want to come back and talk about the debate that has started, the decision about whether we interrogate him before reading his miranda rights, got civil liberty advocates up in arms. we'll talk about that. also talk about the special exception as well. stay with us. we'll get into that after the break. max and penny kept our bookstore exciting and would always come to my rescue. but as time passed, i started to notice max just wasn't himself. and i knew he'd feel better if he lost a little weight. so i switched to purina cat chow healthy weight formula. i just fed the recommended amount... and they both loved the taste. after a few months max's "special powers" returned...
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exception, which allows investigators to question him without reading him his miranda rights. the gold trust is back. peter, i'll start with you here. how compelling is the argument, the argument that's being made for a public safety exception here? >> it is a big stretch. so the public safety exception was created in 1984 by the supreme court, which basically said that, you know, if there is an immediate threat to public safety, if there's a bomb planted, if there is, perhaps, a weapon being hidden on the suspect's person, that arresting officers can question an individual before informing that individual of his rights, but in 2010, the obama administration released a memo saying, well, you know, maybe, in some cases, it might be that we can question people even if there's not an immediate threat, in special cases. and this appears to be one of those special -- they think that this is one of those special cases. but this is really a stretch of the 1984 supreme court ruling. it really expands the
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administration's power here in a way that is very worrying, and really just sort of cries to create an exception to what should be a basically right of all citizens. >> goldie, is it that much of a stretch? >> i don't know it is that much of a stretch. as long as he is unable to talk, the longer that goes on, i think the less relevant a public exception -- public safety exception becomes. how long do we think there's going to be a threat out there if there was a bomb planted someone or several bombs planted somewhere in boston. we don't know what these young men were doing between the time of those bombings and the time that we caught up with them on friday and saturday. i think at the end of the day, we've got to wait and see if there are other threats out there. you know, this public safety exception could last as short as 45 minutes. it could go on up to 48 hours. so i don't know that we're in that much of a gray area. i think in this case, the due diligence is necessary and remind us that not reading the
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miranda rights doesn't mean that the miranda rights don't exist. he still has the right to remain silent, he still has the right to counsel, he just can't -- we're just not going to warn him of it. >> dave weigel, i'm very interested to hear your take on all of this. >> well, peter's right when he describes the reason why we have the exemption in the first place. if there was a threat or seemed to be a threat of more bombs across boston, that is the specific instance when you should be able to invoke this. if he was connected to a network, which we don't know yet and don't think yet, that was plotting more against us, then it would be a useful application of the exemption. but, no, for now, it's almost an alien discussion to the investigation. i mean, in 2009, we didn't immediate mirandize the christmas day bomber. he talked about 45 minutes, he was mirandized and he continued to talk. it was incredibly situational, whether simply telling somebody the rights they have, you know, jogging the memory they'll have
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of their ability to not incriminate themselves is going to have any good. keep in mind, we're talking about, in this case, a suspect who was naturalized in september 2012. he probably has more familiarity with the civics and the rights of court as an american than most people do. he took this test not long ago. so we're talking about really, whether government can remind someone of rights they already have, something that hasn't in every case stopped them talking. >> let's talk about the other case of this, this idea of labeling the suspect as an enemy combatant, peter. we've heard from a number of folks, most notably, senator john mccain, lindsey graham, peter king, the list continues to grow, that he should be labeled as an enemy combatant. what say you to that? >> again, it's a real stretch. it's really hard to find compelling legal justification for doing so. if you look at the rules here, basically, you have to be substantially supported by al qaeda, a member of al qaeda, or
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some other force that is currently, you know, actively at war with the united states. and right now, we don't have, we don't have strong evidence that these brothers were actively part of al qaeda, were substantially, you know, substantially supported by al qaeda. and so, coming up with the legal justification to label them enemy combatants, it's a real stretch. >> we've got some sound from senator chuck schumer this morning. i want to play this sound and let's talk about it on the other side. take a listen. >> there's plenty of evidence. they don't need his confession to get him in a trial. so i don't think we have to cross the line and say he should be an enemy combatant, which could be challenged in court. >> goldie, what's even behind this? what's behind this idea that he should be labeled? >> i don't know what's behind it, but i do know that, you know, trying to label this young man as an enemy combatant is akin to trying to hop across the pacific ocean on a pogo stick. it just doesn't mesh. at the end of the day, he is an
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american citizen. this american land is not a battlefield at this time. there is nothing to support that. and so this young man deserves a trial in a criminal court, in this country. he cannot be tried in a military tribunal. american citizens cannot be tried in american tribunals. so i just really believe that these guys are after their own political narrative in trying to shape the fact and figures the way they'd like to see it go. >> don't go anywhere, all of you, i want to get your take on something else, this congressman peter king stuff, talking about monitoring the muslim community even more. quick break. we'll be right back, more of the brain trust. this is msnbc. using telemedical and mobile technologies, verizon innovators are connecting trauma surgeons to patients in the field. helping them get the attention they need, before they even reach the hospital.
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99% of the muslims are outstanding americans. the fact is, that is where the threat is coming from. when the fbi was after the westies, they went to the irish community. when they were after the mafia, they went to the italian community. if you know what threat is coming from a certain community, that's where you have to look.
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>> the brain trust is back. goldie taylor, dave weigel, peter sudeman. david, let me start with you. that train is never late. >> that's right. peter king will say this in the wake of any crisis that is tied to terrorism any way. this is something he's been trying as soon as he took over the homeland community in 2011. his first hearing was on the radicalization of muslims. it didn't go very well, but he's going to try to keep bringing that up. might he have a case in this case? we're still learning about tamerlan, who seems to have been the most radicalized, in relationship with his mosque in boston. he was kicked out of the mosque, we learned today, after kind of ranting and alienating people there. would that have been information that law enforcement could have already gone into without more resources, without -- could it have been something that was just missed? could it be something that people feared to report? generally, you should worry in a crisis about the people proposing new legislation, new
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monitoring, new investigation. in this case, there might have been something worth discussing, worth discussing beyond the bounds of political correctness, but not needing new legislation or new money for law enforcement. >> goldie taylor, you would think that by now, in this country, you would have moved past some of this. we should know here, congressman peter king said it, but there have been a lot of folks all over social media and a lot of folks have been thinking this as well over the past few days. >> you know, there are more than 2.5 billion peace-loving muslims living around this world. we certainly can't be afraid of all of them. at the end of the day, you know, this is like inculcating, embedding bigotry back into our justice system. and you know, we built this country fleeing religious tyranny. far be it for us to put it back into our system in this way. i remember them that arab rudolph, here in georgia, bombed an abortion clinic, and bombed
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the olympic centennial park, live and on television. he was part of the christian identity movement. certainly not a muslim. and so i think that we have got it all wrong when we begin to target people based upon their professed or actionable religion, based upon their culture or race. this kind of profiling really just defies american values and if we go down this road, there's no telling where this kind of profiling could go. >> peter, really quickly, how are these attacks going to change the way that we look at privacy and civil liberties in this country going forward? >> well, hopefully the lesson won't be to cast a wide net over a large group of people, but instead, to focus more narrowly on the specific targets who have been identified, like the older brother in this case. the fbi was warned about him by a foreign country a couple years back and cleared him, said he wasn't a threat. that's the problem. >> peter surdman, dave weigel, goldie taylor, always a pleasure. great to see all of you. that's going to do it for us. i'm craig melvin right here on
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msnbc, keep it here, we'll give you the latest updates throughout the evening. and join me next saturday, 2:00 eastern, right here on msnbc. have yourselves a fantastic sunday night. [ male announcer ] straight from red lobster's chefs to your table for a limited time! it's our seafood dinner for two for just 25 dollars! a handcrafted seafood feast made to share. first you each get salad and unlimited cheddar bay biscuits. then choose two from a wide variety of chef-inspired entrées like our new honey garlic crispy shrimp or new seafood lover's linguini. round out your seafood dinner with your choice of either an appetizer or dessert to share! don't miss our seafood dinner for two, just $25 at red lobster, where we sea food differently. where does goddess begin? it begins with your skin... revealed by venus for a confident glow the whole world will notice.
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