tv Martin Bashir MSNBC June 3, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
there are real reasons to be positive about the nation's economic recovery. ♪ >> there are a lot of reasons to feel optimistic. >> the administration has still, they're paid. >> i never like to use that word. >> darrell issa should call jay carney and apologize. >> this is a problem that was coordinated right out of washington. >> are we just going to be obsessed with scandals? >> does he stay on the job? >> boy, i think it's tough to see how he does in this case. >> the american people can not be screaming any more loudly. worry about us. >> the president i think should be thinking about how to get these issues behind him. >> my warning to the republicans is look at 1998. >> a willingness to use the machinery of government. >> we're really more interested in fixing the irs. >> to target their political enemies. >> they emphasize it too much, they're going to pay a price at the polls. >> after all we've fought through together, we just have to keep going. ♪ you want, you got it
good afternoon, and we begin with the saga of ire and issa. the latest episode coming to you live from capitol hill where right now newly appointed acting irs commissioner danny werfel is testifying for the first time at a house hearing. today's testimony comes as a sound and dance number is added to the dramatic spectacle of so-called scandals. a 2010 video showing agency employees line dancing at a conference. joining earlier "star trek" and other parody videos by the irs that were released in recent months. on tuesday, the treasury department's inspector general will issue a report exposing excessive spending on such videos and conferences by the irs. not great news for an agency already under fire for targeting conservative groups. though he's only been at the agency for a matter of days, mr.
werfel pledged things are going to change. >> this is obviously a difficult time for the agency, and the public is rightly concerned and upset, as am i. the agency stands ready to confront the problems that occurred, hold accountable those who acted inappropriately, be open about what happened and permanently fix these problems so such missteps do not occur again. >> earlier in the day werfel announced leadership moves inside the irs. part of the internal review he's doing for the president, due within 30 days. but, of course, none of that will due for house oversight committee chairman, one darrell issa, driving straight for the white house. >> the administration has still, their paid liar, their spokesperson, picture behind, he's still making things up about what happens in calling this local rogue. this is a problem that was coordinated in all likelihood right out of washington
headquarters. >> faced with such inflammatory rhetoric, being called a paid liar by a member of congress, white house spokesman jay carney had a maddeningly measured response. >> i am not interested in having a back and forth with chairman issa. i am interested in what the president is interested in in this matter which is we take action to ensure that this activity doesn't happen again. we take action to hold accountable those who are responsible for it. those are the things that matter here. >> but mr. carney did not want for some avid defenders. former white house senior adviser david plouffe tweeted of issa's remarks. "strong words from mr. grand theft auto and suspected arsonist/insurance swindler. and loose ethically today." a little reminder today of mr. issa's colorful history, creating the viper car alarm after he and his brother were charged with stealing a car.
prosecutors later dropped those charges. issa was suspected of setting a factory fire for insurance, but no charges were ever filed. all ancient history, of course. mr. plouffe hit on the real issue with a question for republicans of mr. issa's ilk. >> the question is, is that all congress is going to do? are we just going to be obsessed with scandals and trying to score political points? the american people can not be screaming any more loudly. worry about us. work on the economy. >> indeed. i'm sure it's hard to hear those cries over the roar of the scandal mongering crowd. joining us now from capitol hill is congresswoman eleanor holmes-norton, democrat representing the district of columbia. good afternoon, ma'am. >> good afternoon. >> the senate is expected to start debating an immigration bill. we have student loans set to double in a few weeks unless congress acts. the president wants to close guantanamo bay. the sequester is damaging the
lives of millions of people from meals on wheels for the elderly, to vulnerable children losing their places on the head start program. but congress' car thief in chief, darrell issa, wants us all to stay focused on the irs. could you please explain to our audience why that is? >> what you're seeing is a most amazing sight. we have enough work in the house to keep us busy five days a week. instead, we're barely here three days a week and barely doing anything then. what these so-called scandals are doing is filling an agenda. the republicans have no agenda. what you just described, they are not on their agenda. they just want to get through this term. so if you have overreach, and i'm going to say, i don't want to associate myself at all with what mr. plouffe said. what the democrats should not do
is the payback in kind from what we're hearing from some republicans. now, chairman issa had started off in just another mode at the beginning of this congress. so to hear him revert to conclusions first and maybe we'll go after the facts afterwards, very disappointing to me. paid liar. that's not worthy of him or of any member of congress. and lying, no reference to what the lie has been about. even worse, the notion that it was in his gut that it really goes back to washington. well, if so, the whole top of the agency is gone. by the way, lois lerner, the one who was in charge of the cincinnati office, was based in d.c. of course, she took the fifth. what i think that the chairman must alluding to is, of course, the white house. now, if the inspector general looked at this for more than a
year, couldn't even find political motivation among the federal employees who did this dumb thing, there has been less, none, of facts or evidence that the president knew anything about this. h and he'd have to be the dumbest president of all time after what we went through during the nixon years. >> well, by the end of this week, there will have been six hearings in the house and the senate on the irs. we are also now six months into this president's second term. isn't this really the overarching intention of republican republicans? spend the whole time chasing scandal and preventing this administration from governing? basically hijack the entire process. ma'am, you laugh at it. i'm not in congress, but that's what it looks like outside.
it looks as though this is the agenda that they have for this president's second term. hijack everything by endless talk of scandals. is that not the case? >> at least it would give them an agenda because there hasn't been any for six months here. we passed almost no bills. and let me tell you, the american people get it, because when you ask them, what should we be doing? overwhelmingly they say, jobs and the economy, not the scandals. certainly they want the irs mess looked into. look, we all pay taxes and none of us want to. so, yeah, we want to look into that. yeah, this was something terribly wrong. we still don't know why. and we still aren't dealing with the remedy. and here's the remedy, martin. the statute said that these 501c4s should be exclusively, exculusive enlly engaged in charitable activities. >> yes. >> well, the irs changed the
clear words of the statute to say primarily. >> yep. >> once you change it that way, then the irs has to go in and look at your political business. go back to exclusively. they could do that administrati administratively. or if the congress wants to make sure they do, reaffirm what the statute said in the first place. exclusively charitable activities. >> let's hope that they would even consider doing such a thing. i doubt it very much, though. congresswoman eleanor holmes-norton. thank you for joining us this afternoon. >> always a pleasure. a sad note now from the world of politics. flags across the capitol have been lowered today in honor of new jersey senator frank lautenberg who died early this morning. senator lautenbergs the final world war ii veteran to serve the senate and a powerful driving force on domestic issues, ranging from smoking in airplanes, to the environment and gun control. political rival and new jersey governor chris christie, who will appoint lautenberg's
replacement, offered this impromptu eulogy. >> it's no mystery that senator lautenberg and i didn't always agree. in fact, it's probably more honest to say we very often didn't agree. and we had some pretty good fights between us over time. battles on philosophy and the role of government. but never was senator lautenberg to be underestimated. >> senator frank lautenberg was 89 years old. next, the president pushes on. like it or not, chairman issa. >> there are a lot of reasons to feel optimistic about where we're headed as a country. especially after all we've fought through together. we've just got to keep going. i'm the next american success story. working for a company
where over seventy-five percent of store management started as hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it, or be an engineer, helping walmart conserve energy. even today, when our store does well, i earn quarterly bonuses. when people look at me, i hope they see someone working their way up. vo: opportunity, that's the real walmart. [ roars ] ♪
under the affordable care act, we're expanding mental health and substance abuse benefits for more than 60 million americans. new health insurance -- [ applause ] new health insurance plans are required to cover things like depression screens for adults and behavioral assessments for children. >> that was the president earlier today pledging his administration's efforts to bring mental health issues out of the shadows and to help those sufferers to get the kind of treatment they need. part of the response to the newtown massacre. it's just one of multiple fronts on which the president is seeking to make real progress in his second term. not if people like ted cruz have anything to say about it. >> the obama administration has demonstrated a willingness to use the machinery of government to target their political enemies. and that's wrong.
it was wrong when richard nixon did it, and it's wrong when barack obama did it. >> what, exactly, the president has done and when mr. cruz leaves to the imagination. with us from washington, lynn sweet, washington bureau chief for the "chicago sun-times" and democratic strategist julian epstein. julian, we heard the esteemable cruz this weekend pushing for the abolition of the irs which he suggested could implement death panels against the president's political opponents. isn't his real target here to abolish the man in the white house? i mean, it's braisingly obvious, isn't it? >> that's what the republicans have become. that's all they are right now. lynn will recall, she and i lived through the impeachment of 1998. the republicans are in real danger of gross overreach at this point. i mean, i think the so-called scandals are just going nowhere. on the irs, there's absolutely no evidence that anybody other than career civil servants were involved in this and probably all the evidence points to most
of these groups, the conservative groups, never being qualified for the tax exemption status. on the "ap" and the rosen case, the administration followed all the rules including rules that were set in place, laws set in place by the republicans. on benghazi, this was a cia-driven decision-making process for the most part. the republicans seem kind of caught i think in this death spiral where they want to do nothing but attack, attack, attack. very soon very good reporters like lynn and others are going to start saying, where's the beef, to these republicans? where's the evidence of these reckless charges that they continually make as they made on fast and furious? but they're never able to produce any evidence of to back up the reckless charges. where's any evidence of that? while in the meantime the administration is pursuing a positive agenda. >> okay. lynn, is that what you're going to say? are you going to say they've overreached and there's no beef here as julian suggested? >> thank you for hiring my spokesman, julian epstein. >> he's happy to take 15% of your income, as you know. >> i will -- i'm sure his hourly
rate is more than i can afford. but anyway. here's the point. i agree with a lot of julian says. he was kind enough to remind me when we met. here's one thing where i think cruz is really just wrong. if you abolish the irs, when you go that far off the diving board, how do you expect to collect taxes? what is he really saying? you know, if there's a problem, fix it. the answer to problems in government, when you're elected to govern, can't be close it down, end it. lawmakers are supposed to make things work when they are broken. >> yeah, you've just pointed out, lynn, the great irony of a man who's elected to office and yet wants to abolish so much of the offices that function within government. some have suggested that republicans are at risk of piling too much weight on their burgeoning scandal wagon as julian was just referring, sinking their own chances at the polls. take a listen to what chuck schumer said this weekend. >> my warning to the republicans
is look at 1998. all they did is spend their time on the impeachment of bill clinton. and for the first time, the incumbent president didn't lose seats in the house. if they go too far, they will lose. >> julian, what's your reaction to that? >> well, senator schumer, he was then a member of the house judiciary committee. >> he was. >> i spent a lot of time with him during impeachment. lynn was covering. that's the point i'm making. they continue to make these reckless allegations that obama official, administration officials were somehow involved in the irs scandal. they haven't produced any evidence of that. in fact, the i.g. said exactly the opposite. they're losing credibility. they've continued to say in the "ap" and rosen case that the justice department did not follow rules when in fact they follow lowed the rules the republicans voted for and holder testified exactly accurately with respect to this question about whether rosen was going to be prosecuted or not. and, you know, at a certain point, i've made this point before, that darrell issa starts to sound a lot more like
inspector pluso than he does sam irvin. at a certain point, they begin to make such outrageous statements that they can never back up with facts that the press -- the press loved this story for the first couple months. >> sure. >> but unless -- and lynn knows this from covering scandals in the 1990s and 2000 during the bush administration. unless there's some there, there, then there's no place for the media to go other than to say to the republicans you made these wild-eyed accusations and were never able to back them up. >> lynn, to that point, we've had some positive economic news recently. the housing market is picking up. the deficit is going down. on friday, the trustees of medicare said that a slower growth in spending means it will be able to fund full benefits up to 2026 which is 2 years later than predicted just last year. and yet it seems to me as though all of these things that are happening have got absolutely nothing to do with the house of representatives. this isn't divided government.
it's dead government. they're not doing anything to assist this nation. there is just this mindless pursuit of these kind of scandals. meantime, the american worker, the american people, are endeavoring to do good things and the nation is beginning to rise up. >> well, congress is capable, if they are willing, martin, to do more than one thing at a time. certainly it's good news that's welcome by everybody, no matter what your politics. if the economy is having an upturn, and my god if the housing market is up, it helps everybody in this country. >> yes. >> but, but, let's go back to this irs story because there are hearings this week. there's another hearing going on today. where the republicans, i think, make a mistake is immediately escalating the situation right to the president's lap. he must have known. he called cincinnati. that's absurd as to how things work. and when you talk about republican overreach, this is such a good example. you want a scandal, they have a
pretty good one here. find out what happened. if you have stuff to leak or get out or release, do it. but it's this -- it's this u upping the ante when you can't deliver. just what republicans don't want, they may even get sympathy for eric holder. it only means he stays on longer. >> yes. >> that's exactly the point, because as you remember, martin, i ran that committee, that oversight committee as staff director for about six years. there are two rules in those investigations. one is you've got to bring the other party along if you want to have any chance of real success. and secondly, you let the facts dictate what your rhetoric rather than the rhetoric try to dictate the facts. here the issue now has become, darrell issa and other republicans have made accusations to which there's no factual basis. so now they become the issue as much as the irs misconduct. the misconduct by the civil servants. and that is the ultimate ineptitude in terms of congressional investigations. >> congratulations. >> this is amateur hour at the government oversight committee.
>> congratulations to darrell is issa. julian epstein, lynn sweet, thank you both so much. >> thank you. next, move over dennis rodman. this is is diplomacy starring steven segal. >> come on. [ tires screech ] whoa! hey, we got a weather alert for this location... golf-ball sized hail and damaging winds are on the way... kids... eh, don't worry. it's tornado-proof. anyway, i'd put the car in the garage and secure these things. they could become flying debris. kids! watch this. [ beep ]
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a u.s. congressional delegation went on a fact-finding mission to russia searching for clues that could provide insight into the recent tragic bombings at the boston marathon. but there was something odd about this delegation. no, it's not just that michele bachmann actually went in search of facts, other than that, it was the individual who facilitated some of the meetings between the u.s. delegation and russian officials. actor steven seagal.
that's right. the star of "under siege," "above the law," "today you die," and "born to raise hell," and the recipient of a black belt, mr. seagal was tasked with being the delegation's pointman. apparently not only does mr. seagal have a relationship with the russian president, he's also on speaking terms with the head of the chechen republic, ramzan caderof, accused of a glut of human rights abuses. indeed, the two men are so close that mr. seagal can be seen here dancing for mr. caderof just two weeks ago. as for the congressional delegation, unfortunately, the fact finders were unable to find any facts. "there is nothing specific that could have been done that we can point to that, had it been done differently, would have prevented this," said republican representative dana rohrabacher. unfortunately, michele bachmann left the delegation early and so we're unsure if she was able to
link the russian caucuses to the irs scandal. but we are told that her ferien, sarah palin, continues to monitor the situation from her house. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. i've always kept my eye on her... but with so much health care noise, i didn't always watch out for myself. with unitedhealthcare, i get personalized information and rewards for addressing my health risks. but she's still going to give me a heart attack. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.
good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate, ever. because she's got other things to stress about. ♪ go to citi.com/simplicity to apply. from the biggest joke in all of washington, to the return of mitt romney. here are today's top lines. more cow bell, please. >> you see commercials on tv about a whole array of physical health issues. some of them very personal. >> you got to get off your butt to make a buck. >> some people beg for a living and can make big bucks. >> i would hope that that's the last dollar that someone just hands them. >> think about the depression. that was before there was any welfare state at all. how many people starved? no one. >> good point. >> their paid liar, their spokesperson.
>> darrell issa should call jay carney and apologize this morning. >> he's still making up things about what happened. >> the notion that he's in charge of, quote, government overnight, might now be the biggest yolk in all of washington. >> we cannot quit our investigation. >> my warning to the republicans is look at 1998. >> the question is, is that all congress is going to do? >> all they did is spend their time on the impeachment of bill clinton. >> we have 18 more transcribed interviews. >> are we going to be obsessed with scandals and try to score political points? >> they go too far, they will lose. >> we're not closed for repair >> more cow bell. >> the history of quality, freedom, opportunity. >> after six months of laying low, mitt romney is returning to the public stage. >> we haven't been doing it. we're going to be. >> are the three days, hey, i'm back and going to start talking. >> corporations are people, my friend. >> i think part of the three days is to introduce some key politicians to his key donors. let's get right to our panel
now. joining us now is professor james peterson of lehigh university. and jonathan capehart of the "washington post" is attempting to break the guinness book of records by appearing on more br broadcasts today on this network than any ever. professor peterson, mitt romney is is hosting a summit in park city, utah, that starts wednesday. in attendance, senator rand paul, governor chris christie and congressman paul ryan with whom you can go skete shooting. his former running mate. any one of them can end up as the gop's nominee in 2016 as you know. mitt romney's role in the party is to introduce them to wealthy individuals like himself. >> that's right. future presidential and vice presidential gop candidates meet the donor class of the gop. and actually i honestly believe romney will be quite effective at this. remember, not only has he gotten a lot of money from these donors over the last couple years, but he's also of their class. he's of their ilk. so he actually fits in with them
as well which is you why you see all the social opportunities within this particular conference. this is an important move. all three of those guys don't necessarily love mitt romney, but they do love the money he was able to collect over the course of his presidential campaign. >> and that's the key. mitt romney, those folks are getting access to his donors, but remember, mitt romney was the candidate no one liked. >> right. >> the voters didn't like him. his fellow candidates didn't like him. especially in 2008. so what he's doing is basically buying friends and buying relevance. >> wow. >> buying friends and buying influence, perhaps. >> yep. >> before he lost the 2012 campaign, governor romney commissioned a report to instruct him on how to run the government in the event of his election. it's called the "romney readiness report" and it's now on sale, believe it or not, at amazon.com for about $16. it's the work of nearly 500 consultants. and what it says, essentially, is that the white house is a holding company much like the
kind that mitt romney would have established during his years as a corporate raider. what's the point of that document, professor peterson? >> it's mortifying, horrifying, scary. if you take a look at the document, you can see that the romney folk were putting in place all the ways in which you could corporatize the american government. they were going to put corporate oversight in place. they already initiated plans to repeal obama care immediately. they wanted to reduce dramatically federal regulations. and they wanted to implement all these different sort of corporate strategies to manage the federal government. i think mr. romney believed that that was the vision that his supporters wanted out of a romney administration. but it's actually quite chilling to read the report and see what mr. romney had in store for the united states. >> are you suggesting that mitt romney would have been president mitt romney sponsored by brell cream? obviously not direct because he doesn't believe in birth
control. >> it may be sponsored by sheldon adelson here, but he was more than willing to implement textbook sort of corporate strategies to run the federal government. we have enough corporatization in the federal government already. you take a look at this report, it's chilling what moitt romney had in store and how he was going to run the government going forward in 2012. >> here's the thing. on the one thing it's impressive. you expect someone who is this close to becoming president of the united states would be ready, would hit the ground running with a plan, with an idea of how they want to leave the country. on the other hand, as professor peterson says, it is chilling what he wanted to do, but also it requires, you know, mitt romney to not even consider things like, oh, civil service rules. civil service unions. how about the 535 people on the other end of pennsylvania avenue? the presidency is 1/3 of the federal government. >> johns what about the notion --
>> it is not all. >> public vocation, the presidency, it sounds like it's an engineer the takeover of a business. >> that's what it is. remember, when mitt romney was running for president, no one could explain why he was running for president. other than, eh, he wanted to be president. >> now we know. >> president obama, we knew what he wanted to do. >> right. >> heck. senator mccain when he ran for president, we knew why he wanted to be president of the united states. >> sure. >> mitt romney still to this day, this romney readiness project report notwithstanding, still don't know what he wanted to do. >> it's probably the takeover of the presidency. professor, rnc chairman reince priebus issued an autopsy of the campaign that mr. romney just lost. but now the college republicans are getting into the act. you know something about this. >> i do. >> and their own autopsy reports warns that the party can sometimes appear, i'm quoting, "close minded, racist, rigid, and old-fashioned." yet mr. priebus says the party is open for repairs. how come they don't repair that?
>> well, it's interesting, martin, as you know, the college republicans have a long history of very, very robust presence on college campuses across this nation and they've been very, very effective over the years at rallying around certain causes. but the disconnect between young people and the republican party is causing a lot of problems for college republicans because at the end of the day, the social issues upon which the republican party continues to rest its political future are just not in the interest of young people from any political stripe. they're no longer interested in playing all kinds of games around marriage equality. the whole idea of sort of racism in the 21st century for young people just appears to be absurd. women's rights and the attempt of the republican party to roll back women's rights doesn't sit well with conservative young women. at the end of the day, the college republicans can't really exist with the platform that the right wing sort of house republican party is generating for the gop. and so there's a huge disconnect that the autopsy only just lightly points out from reince
priebus. >> indeed. professor james peterson and jonathan capehart. thank you so much. coming up, the syria situation at a crossroads. stay with us. >> i understand the reluctance of the american people, but i think the president could make a case for cratering the runways, gives them a no-fly zone, and an area with which to base their government. [ tires screech ] whoa! hey, we got a weather alert for this location... golf-ball sized hail and damaging winds are on the way... kids... eh, don't worry. it's tornado-proof. anyway, i'd put the car in the garage and secure these things. they could become flying debris. kids! watch this. [ beep ] [ children screaming ] [ car alarm chirps ] awesome. [ male announcer ] mobile weather alerts from your home insurance? that's allstate home insurance. great protection plus helpful tools to make life better. talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rings ] and let the good life in.
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congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution to the earth. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment. i met these young fighters, these battalion commanders. i met 1 of them. they're tough. >> we have a senator over there who had his picture taken with kidnappers. i don't know how good a job we're going to do vetting those who are going to get the arms. >> the split in the gop on how or even whether to assist syrian rebels comes as the entire u.s. policy toward the middle east is under intense scrutiny at home.
a key ally in the region, turkey, witnessed a fourth day of police attacking protesters in what appears to be an increasingly authoritarian government. this just two weeks after the president called turkey's prime minister a strong ally and partner in the region. also today is the first day in the military trial of bradley manning for aiding the enemy. an event which almost certainly will refocus attention on how america conducts its secret wars abroad. and it's those secret wars that are the focus of journalist jeremy scahill's new documentary "dirty wars" which premieres this friday. >> the list of raids read like a map of a hidden war. >> right guys get targeted, but other times the wrong guys get killed. >> and we are delighted to say that we're joined now by jeremy scahill, whose new book also called "dirty wars" is available in stores.
jere jeremy, i want to talk about your film. first, today is the first day of the bradley manning trial, and i believe you have some history with bradley manning as a reporter. >> yeah, it was strange, i didn't know that i had history with him. as reporters we get e-mails all the time from people across the country. i had received a tip a few years ago from someone who e-mailed me that eric prince, the founder of blackwater, the sort of mercenary kingpin, that he was preparing to flee the united states and relocate in the united arab emirates. at a time when blackwater was under intense scrutiny from the central government. the individual who tipped me off with it put me in touch with a source that had access to information about the movements of eric prince and his family. i ended up breaking a story about this. "the new york times" confirmed it a number of weeks later, in fact, eric prince was leaving the united states. i received a call from someone doing a biography of bradley manning some months after this. it was after manning had already been arrested. he said, i'm talking to people who have been in touch with bradley manning. i said, i don't know what you're talking about. i've never been in touch with bradley manning. he ask me to search my e-mail
for a particular e-mail address. i went back and found this lengthy, thoughtful e-mail from bradley manning. it was just before the collateral murder video was posted by wikileaks of u.s. forces opening fire on the reuters media workers and civilians in iraq and sparked this whole story. the interaction i had with bradley manning was initially as someone who had given me a tip about something. to be honest, martin, the e-mail really read as an e-mail from a thoughtful person of conscience concerned about the idea that someone like eric prince was going to be able to walk away scot-free after the blackwater forces has caused so much carnage in iraq and elsewhere. >> right. now, you discussed drones in the film. an attack that killed a number of -- the number two taliban official in pakistan just last week. and this week after the president, you know, gave that big speech about u.s. drone strategy. some have questioned whether the attack met the imminent threat, this recent attack in pakistan. that threshold. what are your thoughts on that? >> when the department of
justice -- >> i find that whole notion extremely difficult to calibrate. >> i think we're living in the era of pre-crime. bush and cheney were big fans of taking up preemptive war. the 1 % doctrine, if there's 1% chance someone is going to cause a threat. unfortunately, president obama has continued on with that. now, his speech was full of rhetoric that i think particularly for a lot of liberals was welcome, and the idea you have a president saying that civilian deaths are going to haunt him until the day he dies. in reality, president obama expanded signature strikes where we're targeting people whose identities we don't know against who we may not even have evidence. it's like minority report, like the tom cruise movie. you know, in our film, we seek to show the other side of this story which is so seldom fwogon from media coverage. we go to yemen and talk to people who survived u.s. missile attacks and ask, how do you perceive the united states? imagine being an american in yemen talking to people who have never met an american before, but their family members have been killed in a missile attack. to hear them say, you say that al qaeda are terrorists.
we say your drones are terrorism. it's why i've come to a belief in some of these countries, we are actually making more new enemies than we are killing terrorists. and we know that the justice department lawyers redefined the term imminent to such a degree that reasonable people who would look at it would say that's actually not what it means. the idea someone who in the past may have been involved with plots against the united states permanently rests a threat to the country has taken us way, way overboard. >> as someone, finally, who focuses on national security issues, what are your thoughts concerning eric holder, the james rosen and the d.o.g.'s per suit of leaks? >> yeah, i mean, first of all, the "associated press" reporters have done some of the most aggressive, solid reporting on the cia and expansion of covert ops under president obama. i believe the justice department did a wide sweep in an effort to try to crack down on all of their sources. not just one underwear, alleged underwear plot in yemen. i think we're living in a time where there is a war on whistleblowers and i think there's a real crackdown on
serious independent national security lortin ining reporting. bradley manning, i'm part of a lawsuit to open up that proceeding. this isn't about bradley manning in many ways. it's about the bigger issue of living in a time when a constitutional law professor, democratic president, appears to be waging a war against journalists and against whistleblowers. to me it undermines the principles of the free press in the democratic society. that's the real issue. >> jeremy scahill, whose new film premieres in select cities friday. >> thanks, martin. coming up, capitol hill. it leaves precious little time for, you guessed it, law making. [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop.
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if they go too far, they will lose. >> well, i'm sorry to disappoint senator schumer, but if we don't go scandal mongering now, we may not have the time to do it later. after all, while the gop-controlled house may be back in session today, we've only got a few more four-day workweeks until a week-long july fourth recess. and then, well, it's just a few more four-day workweeks until a month-long august recess. and so i'm sorry, but between scandals on the one hand, and student loan rates and head start on the other, something had to give. joining us now is democratic congressman peter welsh of vermont. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon. >> there are 15 days left in the house to prevent student loan rates from doubling. am i to assume that even if it were 15 times as many that still wouldn't be enough time for republicans to come to the table and try and sort it out? >> well, i think you're right. i mean, the scandal here that ought to be investigated is why is congress not doing any of its work to legislate?
we've got student loans, we've got immigration, we've got the sequester. >> we've got six hearings on the irs. >> that's exactly right. there's just a frenzy on the republican side. part of it is because they think they can get political gain. they do with their base, but they cause a lot of harm to the american people in narrow, essentially, of their reach. that's one. second, it's as much about diverting attention from their failure on being able to come to some agreement on doing things like providing relief to student loans, dealing with the sequester, to negotiating with obama on the immigration bill, to building the infrastructure. the things that would build the economy and create jobs. and they just are in lockdown mode. so they get excited. they're spirits get all juiced up when they can have an investigation and some of the members can call presidential folks paid liars. all this over the top stuff. but, you know what, we've got a job to do, and number one
scandal here is congress is not doing it. >> okay. to that point, sir, senator chuck schumer sounded confident that immigration reform would pass the senate before the july 4th recess. what's your confidence, though, of getting anything through the house? >> you know, i actually think there's a lot of members in the house on the republican side, this gang of eight, that is wanting to get it done. an impediment to getting it done, an erosion of our credibility that will be required in order to get it done is the scandal mongering. the over the top focus on investigations. you know, we could investigate, and congress should. that's one of our functions. but not at the expense of legislating. and the excessive rhetoric and the excessive number of hearings and the over the top accusations undercuts the credibility that members of congress need if they're going to do something serious and sustainable on a very important issue like immigration reform. >> so specifically, sir, and briefly, can we expect the house to do anything on immigration
reform if the gang of eight in the senate passed this through on july 4th? >> well, i'm hopeful that we will. i really am. and the reason is that if the senate gets a strong bipartisan vote, this is a case where a lot of the republicans know that nationally they can't be so retrograde as they've been in the past. the dilemma we have in the house is there's a lot of republican members who gerrymander districts that are in lockdown mode and whose constituents will be adamantly opposed to them doing anything. there's a lot of peril ahead in the house but it's something that's so important for the country's future and many republicans believe for their future maybe they can get it done. >> absolutely critical. democratic congressman, peter welch. thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> and we'll be right back.
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most grateful for the latest intervention by congresswoman marsha blackburn of tennessee who voted against the lilly ledbetter fair pay act and opposed the paycheck fairness act claimed on sunday to widespread astonishment that women don't want equal pay laws that come out of congress. >> they don't want the decisions made in washington. they want the power, control and ability to make those decisions themselves. >> now, i'm not sure what miss blackburn thinks she's referring to, but she hasn't spoken to my wife, my two daughters or any of my esteemed female colleagues whom i work with every single day on this broadcast. because they are extremely angry. they're extremely angry that the pay gap between men and women actually increased last year with women earning only 80% of what men earned for doing exactly the same job. they're extremely angry that according to the national women's law center, a typical full-time working woman will
miss out on almost $500,000 in earnings over a career purely because women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work. this means for a woman to achieve the same income as a man, they'd have to work 12 years longer just to break even. as i said, i'm not sure who miss blackburn is referring to when she says that women don't want these issues to be resolved in washington. in fact, i'm not even sure that she represents republicans because the college republican national committee just published its own assessment of what went wrong for the party and its outreach to young voters last year. when asked about the party's economic stance, voters said, "we've become the party that will pat you on your back when you make it but won't offer you a hand to help you get there." that's true for sure. when asked for words they would associate with the gop, the responses were brutal.
"close minded, racist, rigid, old-fashioned." "close minded, rigid, old-fashioned." maybe miss blackburn was only referring to herself. thanks so much for watching. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. attack, attack, attack. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. there's a lot of attacking going on in washington these days. it's attack, attack, attack. and what did obama do to encourage this unstopping attack on him? did he actually do something at the irs? well, nothing's come forward yet. the guy running the irs during the bad stuff coming out now was an appointee of george w. bush. just who is it that's leading the attack on the president?