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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  June 21, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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every free clinic they hear about, the republican side on health care is offering nothing. nothing. and "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening. i am chris hayes in new york. the u.s. government filed criminal charges against former national security agency contractor edward snowden. he worked as a security analyst for the nsa and leak add trove of classified documents to reporters at the guardian news paper and the post. for more details, we turn to nbc news justice correspondent, pete williams, with the latest on the story. what do you have for us? >> you know, everybody is reporting this now because the government is actually released
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the charging document itself. the first page, it's a bare bones thing. this is the totality in what the government released, by the way, and the rest of the case if you go to the court's website and looks at it, it's under seal. he is basically charged with violating three federal laws. stealing government property, and secondly, two charges under the espionage chapter in the federal charging book, improperly giving out classified national defense information to somebody who is not cleared to see it and a separate charge for giving out classified information about communications intelligence. so the three charges, each of them carries a maximum sentence of ten years in prison. the other interesting thing about this, these charges were filed on june 14th, under seal, and we just learned about them today.
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now, what this means is the government has now started the process of seeking an arrest warrant in hong kong for the arrest of him. obviously the fbi can't go over there and arrest him any more than the hong kong authorities could send somebody over here to arrest somebody in washington or new york. the hong kong authorities will arrest them, and he said if they send him back he will resist. >> thank you for bringing us that. we appreciate it. joining me now, a reporter that broke the story tonight who covers the justice department for the "washington post." >> when snowthe complaint was f,
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the united states has 60 days, and it's a higher bar with an indictment, and they have to layout probable cause. what the government of the united states wants is for hong kong to detain mr. snowden and arrest him while they have the 60-day period to file a formal indictment. at that point the united states will ask hong kong authorities to extradite mr. snowden. that could be a complicated process. we have a treaty with hong kong as we do with about 120 other countries, and within that treaty there's a clause that allowed for exception on one of the offenses. one of the charges is espionage, and that could be a political
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offense. >> this is interesting to me and i did not know this until you just said this. the u.s. government clearly has been in contact with the government of hong kong, correct? >> correct. >> and now they filed this complaint and they want him detained by hong kong authorities immediately? >> immediately. it's interesting, the united states is sending a message. they moved quickly on this. it shows how seriously they are taking what they consider a very significant national security breach and leak, and they are saying to hong kong authorities, we want mr. snowden picked up and detailed and arrested and put in jail and held until we filed an indictment, and then they will move into the extradition process, which could get very complicated. >> so let's say he is detained by the hong kong authorities and is indicted in the u.s., and there's an extradition process, and he can obviously file an appeal against the extradition, right? >> yes. >> one of the ways presumably he might be able to do that, it's
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fundamentally a political charge by the united states, because he is being charged under a statute called the espionage act passed in the woodrow administration, right? >> yes. understand there are two tracks this could take, extradition or asylum. he will have a legal team, and there's a clause, an exception for political offenses, and there's an exception in the hong kong treaty that would allow hong kong to say they want to keep mr. snowden, because it's in the best interest defense interest or foreign interest of the country. now it's very unclear what exactly that means. it's actually unclear the interpretation of political offenses. so both of those will be fought in the court. >> thank you very much.
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>> thank you. joining me now on the phone is a columnist on civil liberties on the guardian newspaper. i don't think this is surprising given whatever snowed has admitted to doing. what is your reaction in the news? >> well, the obama administration's record. i think it's very surprising to accuse somebody of espionage who has not worked for a foreign government and did not covertly pass information to an adversary to the united states, he went to newspaper and asked newspapers to leak out the information to make sure the only thing being published are things to inform the public but not give away
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secrets, and that's not espionage. this has been used very, very sparingly throughout american history until the obama administration, and it's punishing and prosecuting, and in that regard i think it's unsurprising. >> one of the complaints is theft of government property. the specific language is unauthorized communication of national defense communication, and willful communication to an unauthorized person and a section of the u.s. code, that last one comes in from the 1917 legislation, and my question is doesn't the government have to do something? somebody who worked for the government and inside the government skips out with 1,000 classified documents. this is a fairly big breach, even if you think the benefit
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has been huge and resip taeutd a much-needed debate? >> i would say two things about that. i don't think you will find very many people argue that he should not be charged with any sort of a criminal offense. i think when he did what he stood out to do was a violation of the law and felt like it was a noble act justified under theories of disobedience, and i don't think anybody is objecting to have. i think the extreme zealousness, the over charging of the obama administration specialized in when it comes to whistle blowers is the issue. he is 29 years old and will be threatened with life in prison,
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the way other whistle blowers were, the extreme excess that has a vindictive mentality to anybody that brings transparency to the administration. if this administration was equitable and consistent and tried to punish people who leak information that is classified, you could say it's consistent, but all sorts of obama officials leaked top classified administration to politicalhreu tkpwhroer tpaoeu. we have a misuse. i think that's a very important point. i should note, the leaks, the offensive cyber warfare that was
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conducted against iran, there is a department of justice investigation on that. so it's possible we see down the road stuff come out of that that would perhaps even the scales in that regard. thank you so much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me, chris. one man brought two cases to the supreme court that could kill an affirmative action. one guy. who he is and what he is after coming up. ok s o i' 've been having ok s an affair of sorts
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texas republicans are ramming through a bill that would shut down abortion clinics across the state, but they have to beat back a grassroots movement to stop them. and then talking about paula deen, y'all, coming up. walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it,
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the united states supreme court heads into a weekend with two days left to announce decisions, and two blockbuster cases that could reshape our approach to equality yet to be decided. on monday the roberts court could affirmatively end action in education, and that could happen because of the work of one single man. a 60-something retired-year-old stock broker. the story of how he came to have four cases heard by the supreme court is a remarkable one. it starts back in 1992 when
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blum, a stock broker living in houston decided to run for congress, a majority minority district. he won the republican primary and went to run on against the african-american democratic incumbent. he was wall uped and lost by 36 points. he decided to sue the district. >> is there any bitterness on your part for having lost the electi election? >> no, because of course texas is not the only state in which something like this is taking place. >> that case known as bush vvera went all the way to supreme court. he won. the supreme court struck down the two texas districts, one
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majority black and one majority hispanic and ordered texas redraw their boundaries. and then taking a sledge hammer to predeuce racial equality by considering the race of the people at issue. he was said to feel vindicated. he turned his attention to smaller battles in 1997, and he led a bond effort to kill a houston program pushing for more workplace diversity. >> today houston could become the first city to kill affirmative action, voters will decide. bond under writer says that's wrong. >> we know government cannot grant a preference to an individual based upon his race or gender without discriminating against somebody as a
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consequence. >> in 2000 he moved to washington, d.c. and floated around conservative organizations and working on a campaign to encourage people not to check the race category on the u.s. census. >> it's amazing to me that the office of management and budget in the clinton administration will recognize during the tabulation that a white mother can have a black child, but a black mother cannot have a white child. this is a throwback to jim crow era one drop rules, and it's really reminiscent of nullenburg. >> in 2005 he started his own one-man nonprofit financed by a charitable group called donor's trust. and they spent $1.2 million from
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anonymous donors. so he turned his sights on finding the perfect plaintiffs to take on any law that actively considers race to create more racial equality. one argument was that the south changed and voting rights act was no longer needed and the case made it to the supreme court but this time he lost with a newly conservative spring court he turned to his affirmative action, targeting the university of texas, which admits anybody that graduates in the top of the glass, and in order to destroy that system he set out to find the perfect white student, setting up a website, asking white students who were rejected to send in their stories. he was not finding any white rejected kids up to the task until his own buddy called him up and said his daughter had
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been rejected from the university of texas. he said he would not have to pay a single cent in legal cost, and abigail fisher now lent her name to the case. >> there were people in my class with lower grades that were not in all of the activities i was that were being accepted and the only other difference in between us was the color of our skin. i was taught any kind of discrimination was wrong. >> he had bigger sights, taking down the voting rights act something he failed to do in 2009 and one day while cruising the department of justice's website, he saw there was a rejection of a voting map in a small town. he acted quickly and called the attorney for that town, and the two men clicked. ellis said he had been chaffing under section 5 and was intrigued by his call.
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ellis agrees to bring suit on behalf of shelby county voting the voting rights act was outdated. fisher versus the university of texas is before the supreme court right now. we are awaiting those rulings, because he went out to find the perfect people to make this case. he is funded by god knows who may be responsible for genuine dismantling of law to make this country a more equal place, to address the history of white supremacy and racism. perhaps scariest of all, he is not some quirky outlyer. justice roberts, the chief justice on the supreme court was
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part of that movement. and richard bloom and justice roberts are a lot of like. they both preach a simplistic brand of color-blindness, saying the way to stop discriminating on the basis of race is to stop discrimination on the basis of race. and we have our guests here, president and executive director of the committee for civil rights. you have written about this. i think i first learned of bloom when i was talking about him tkpa going out and finding these plaintiffs? do we know who is behind him? there is a guy that is working off his laptop and making phone calls and getting two cases in a term? >> he has the perfect sponsor from the group called donor's trust, which is really the most influential conservative group
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most people have not heard of. they gave out 22 million tkz to a whose who of conservative groups, and including groups that wrote the discriminatory voter laws. they gave him $1.2 million. that's a lot of money for a one-man conservative legal defense firm to go out and find polic plaintiffs, and he has been successful precisely because there is like-minded people on the supreme court who are receptive to hearing these challenges. so it's both the fact that he has a lot of money from the top members of the conservative movement, and then he has receptive figures on the court that want to hear these challenges. the supreme court is accepting these cases and ruling favorably on them in a way they warrant not so long ago. >> the argument you hear from
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conservatives a lot, and they will vote dr. king with the content of the character and not the color of the skin, and this has taken hold, and white people believe anti-white racism has increased, and that's a pole from the school of arts and sciences. they replaced blacks of the primary racial discrimination in contemporary america. what do you say when you hear that argument, when you realize that the phrasing of the problem in the simple terms he does, and justice roberts is having a rhetorical purchase with the american people? >> they are just tapping into a vein of racial resentment that is out there. it's very interesting because abigail fisher, whenever she
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talks, she talks about the color of her skin but she never talks about all the other whites who also got in. under the same program that she is challenging. and in fact, the majority of the people who admitted were white, so it's really her against other whites. but she wants to use the racial dynamic because it sounds better, because it appeals to, you know, a vein of white resentment that whrabelieves wh superiori superiority, because they believe that white is better. and there is that vein in our society, and it's deep and it's ingrained and unfortunately there are people in the court who have some of those same views, and overcoming that is part of the continued civil rights struggle. >> very quickly. there has been a long-term assault on the voting rights act. what is your sense of how this case is going to come down? >> you are right, it goes back to george wallace and richard
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nixon, and i think anybody who would listen to the oral argument as i did thinks affirmative action and the voting rights act are in a lot of trouble given the current makeup on the court. there's not a swing vote when it comes to matters of racial equality. roberts and kennedy are militant on the issues. the question is are they willing to go so far to have such a radical step that would roll back so many generations and decades of racial progress, and i think that's going to be a radical step for the court to do. >> all right, thank you both. >> thank you. hundreds show up to the texas state capital and give 11 hours of testimony about some of the most restrictive abortion bills in the u.s. what happens? the committee calls a meeting with two hours notice and holds it in a tiny room and votes yes on all of them. it's not over yet. we're more on that coming up. ready?
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pretty remarkable showing of people power at the texas state house last night into the wee hours of the morning, as close to 700 people packed into a hearing of what was called a peop people's filibuster. hundreds of texans who care people about reproductive rights fought hard to delay the bills and wanted to force the committee to hear hours of public testimony. we had a lot of compassionate testimony which is the public's
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right, which is the republican chairman, mr. cook, and then he got tired, and he said although the testimony is impassioned, and it has become repetitive. one witness said our government's attacks on our choice and bodies is repetitive. and cook adjourned the meeting after 11 hours of testimony, denying hundreds of people the chance to speak. >> this is crazy. when they shut us down in that hearing, they did what they told them they were doing to us, suppressing us and the chairman said we were being repetitive. he was bored. he didn't want to hear anymore because they knew how they were going to vote. >> when it failed, government
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rick perry gave the bill's new life when he added a list of a streamline process. together, these two bills make it nearly impossible to get an abortion in the state of texas. house bill 60 and 16 would close 37 of the state's 42 facilities that perform abortion and ban abortions after 20 weeks. just when it looks like the filibuster had beaten back the bills, this afternoon they quietly approved both bills, setting them up to be debated and voted on by the full house. and a tweet was sent out referring to the senate version of the bill saying we fought to pass sb5 through the senate last night and this is why. just to be clear, he tweeted a graphic when a planned parent group in texas that says in no
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uncertain terms that these bills will essentially ban abortion in the state. in other words, that's the republican saying that the reason he fought so hard to pass the anti-abortion bill is that it will ban abortions in the state. republican lawmakers in texas are making no pretenses of what their aims are. we have the president of the texas chapter for the national organization for women. you were there as part of the remarkable action. where did you get the idea for a people's filibuster? >> i think it originated with jessica fur, and she was hearing the -- doing the hearing on the bills. >> what was it like? i mean, what happened in that room? it sounded like quite a scene. 11 hours of people talking, and
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at some point they tried to shut you down and the folks in the room basically rebelled? >> well, they did. there had been hours and hours of testimony, and people had waited hours to testify, and you have to understand, they had driven all over the state hundreds of miles and then waited. i drove 180 miles and waited ten hours before i testified, and just to speak for less than three minutes. so we had a room that was -- it seated 150 in the audience, and it was standing room only, plus an overflow room that had probably another hundred or so in it. and these people came from all over the state and waited all this time and they wanted to have their three minutes. >> what happened when the republican chair told you you were not going to get it? >> the room exploded. i mean, the people started standing up and shouting, and they were so angry because they
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had come all this distance and they were determined that they wanted to speak, and they were especially owe fended by saying what they were going to say what repetitive. how would he know it was repetitive when he didn't know what they had to say in the first place. >> it looks like this bill is going to get debated with a vote on the house, and there is a real threat this could become law, and it would have a drastic affect on women's lives across texas. what is the plan to stop this bill from becoming law? >> well, there is going to be -- the democratic legislators are going to work on trying to slow it down until the session runs out. it has to be adopted before tuesday is over. and then there is also legal attacks that are being put together to attack in terms of
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the way this is being adopted as well as substantively in case the bills do go through to make constitutional challenges. on the citizens area, which, of course, i am involved in, we will be planning to try and get as many people out and communicating with their elected officials between now and the end of the session. >> thank you so much. we'll be right back. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate. ever. as in never ever. now about that parking ticket. [ grunting ] [ male announcer ] the citi simplicity card is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee, ever. go to to apply. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business?
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and there was so much certainty over it, and time to take a trip to yield pet store because last night during the middle of the nba championship game, the birth certificate was dropped, and the baby's name is north west. no middle name. just the direction between north and west on a campus. and the internet doesn't quite know what to do with this information. there are tweets about a defunct air carrier. and back at the nba championship game, bill russell let out a big young. there you have it, north west, but it's better than blanket but below blue ivy. and then brazil, the biggest
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demonstrations in decade swept the country. it's evolved into a nationwide movement and tens of thousands have taken to the streets, and once again, like we have seen in other parts of the globe, soerba media is playing a prominent role in conveying information. really incredible images are coming out of the demonstration. and one organizer put it, it's like the taking of the best steel. we will watch. and then the first day of summer, a reminder, with you will have many lazy days ahead to perfect your naming skills. you can stick an album cover in front of your pet and create a hybrid creature that lives on
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the internet. call me crazy, but this could be a good marketing tool for rescue organizationses. who wouldn't want to adopt a dog like this. all this pup wants to do is have some fun, am i right? of course, it encourages humans to participate too, and i hope to inspire you with my own contribution, and here i am in with rappin rodney. we'll be right back. ♪
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this week brought us the eruption over food network star, paula deem, and she admitted to using the "n" word in a deposition. today brought us no less than four major developments, and the food network's decision was not to renew her contract. >> she told me at one point, savannah, i don't know how to be anything but honest. i said, fine, she got on a plane and arrived in new york city last night and then we started to hear from her people that she is exhausted. they believe she is in the hotel, but she has not confirmed anything other than that she is
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not here. >> and she has been on the show so many times, and we consider her a friend and we hope she will reconsider because she needs to address this. >> deen posted this picture, and here is part of the video statement, the 45-second video apology. >> i want to apologize to everybody for the wrong that i have done. i want to learn and grow from this. inappropriate hurtful language is totally, totally unacceptable. >> within hours, for reasons not entirely clear, her camp put out a more specific apology. here is part of that one. >> and man, i have to say, i was physically not able this morning. the pain has been tremendous that i have caused to myself and
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to others, and so i am taking this opportunity now that i have pulled myself together and am able to speak to offer an apology to those that i have hurt. >> by this time the food network said in a statement food network will not renew paula deen's contract when it expires. she admitted to having used the "n" word. and she described a southern plantation style wedding, that might be appropriate for her brother, and the whole entitle wait staff was middle aged black men, and then is there any reason you could not have just done the same thing but have that but have people of different races, and she said, well, that's what made it. we get to watch our national ritual of public apology, which
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so far seems to have done little for paula deen. it's great to have you here. >> thank you. >> so well, let me just say one thing, superficially, when you are doing public apologies and you are a public person you should write them down and put them in a teleprompter and read them off because winging it does not work. what do you guys make of this? i will let you go first, because i don't want to over determine the direction of the conversation, but i am curious what you make of all this? >> i think it's from the michael richards school of after the fact racial apologies, which is are you really concerned about the harm that you did, were you bothered about this when you were using the term or are you bothered my the fallout that has become public that you use this term. >> in case, michael richards is a guy that called kramer on
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"seinfeld," and he got into it with a heckler and then just let out some of the most offensive -- just vile racial slurs and talked about lynching -- >> yeah, man. >> the reason i am putting those facts on the table, and the infraction seems to be not as bad. >> yeah, because we saw it. for the people who saw it privately, probably were struck by who she is in public and that she is somebody that can use this terminology or language in praoeufr utah where she doesn't think she will be called for it. >> i would love to have seen the video of her doing it. i am not managing her at a bank, and burns her hands, and oh, "n" word -- >> it makes no sense that she
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said among other times when she used the word, she used the example of the gun being pointed to her head, and then the next question is did you use that word to the person -- of course not. what are you talking about? >> the thing that was so fascinating about that, if that word is coming out of her mouth in the wake of some trauma, it's in there before the trauma. that's the thing that to me was -- i was like, what is going on here. >> what struck me is they asked her pointblank, you have ever used the "n" word, and her answer was, yes, of course. i appreciate that level of honesty. >> she is getting beaten up for that, and i believe she is in her 60s, and of course she has. >> she said it. a lot of people we know would have said, absolutely never, no, and i thought that was telling. >> but the usage of the word was one thing. i thought the interesting point was the nostalgia, when she was talking about it gets to a
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deeper point. i lived in atlanta for a long time and i would drive past an apartment complex called the plantation, and i wondered how do you sell this on african-americans, would you like to move into the plantation? we have nice properties out back? >> i have to be the odd negro on this panel. i am not offended -- >> you are not offended. >> i am not. i feel like -- first i heard she used the "n" word out of context. >> yeah, like she just got it on her show. >> she makes an amazing rib casserole, but 70 years old and she has not used it in 20 years, that's a great head start for her. >> and i want to pick up on that. and then i want to talk about the way in which this plays out. it struck me as similar to -- well, it's about the way this word has this particular focus for all of us, as if all racism begins and ends with the
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invocation of that word, and so i want to talk about that after we take this break. i am an american success story.
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>> he is your slave? >> no, no, no. he's not a slave at all. we don't have slaves here anymore. it's a law that was passed they can no longer be used as slays, and it's a good thing, yeah, for them. >> not so much for you. >> you are right. >> we are talking about paula deen that can't seem to shake a certain culture that reveres the old days. in the deposition it came out she wanted to plan her brother's wedding in the plan station-style with an all-black wait staff and white gloves, and that was similar to a restaurant she had been in. and i don't want to be a northern white liberal who is
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all about who turns the paula deen story that turns this opportunity to feel better about us, and that's a white woman in the south using the "n" word, and racial relationships in the south in the 21st century are complicated in a fascinating way. >> they are. what i think is that you can have that racial experience in new york, or in boston, or anyplace in the north where you can experience racism. in the south, these things are a little more complicated, because even if there is the existence of racism, there is still a kind of weird affinity or a weird kind of connectiveness, because people live in close proximity and the food that she is cooking is in some ways influenced by african-american culture. >> she stole our recipes. >> that's our thing. >> and you are right about it not being an opportunity to feel good. i feel like that word is -- it's a loaded word. i would like a real conversation
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about it where we start to talk about the fact that it's the only slur against a race that somehow our people -- some of our people embraced as a term of endearment, and i can't imagine any other group dancing to the fill in the ethnic color, you know. >> and beyond that, it's a word that has power. >> yes. >> and it's interesting, for me to hear you say that you basically for give her or you are not that offended by it, because we have built-up -- i can't say it on air. the word is so powerful, and it's an ultimate social taboo, and it stands in for racism so all that the people that use that use that word are okay, and the ones --
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>> well, i don't like new york cops. i don't like the cops or democrats. democrats have done more racist laws, stop and risk, more than republicans or paula deen. i would rather have rib casserole than stop and frisk any day. >> and there was a sweet that was on that point, paula deem apologizes and then there was a link about marijuana arrested for black folks are four times as high than white people, and that's about enforcing the rhetoric of the world and the apologize ritual. what about the trent lott -- i will not play the sound, we don't have time. but the trent lott ritual, he said basically at a birthday party, if we elected this problems -- i think he should have stepped down, and he was the minority leader at that
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point. we have a ritual of apology coming out of scandals and particularly around scandals that have to do with race that to me end up not resolving anything. >> i think they are more damming in the way congress has the nonbinding apology for slavery in 2010. there is a policy or something that we are going to do to make up for the damage done in the society. and it says much more about the person who is the offender. >> do you think she should lose her job? >> that's a hard question. >> no, it's not. she cooks chicken. let her cook chicken and say the "n" word. when i have blood sugar, i am calling everybody the "n" word, yeah. >> she didn't try to cover it up. it certainly rocks the image that she projects. i think people will look at her in a different way. >> her image is a southern white
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lady. >> that's the question. the question to me is -- >> not really. >> enforcing this in a certain way, we all go like this, and then it's like, okay, that's what racism looks like, it's southern white people. thank you. that's all for this evening. the "the rachel maddow show" starts now. we are having a moment right now in republican politics. the last 48 hours all across a broad swath of the country we have had a flury of really remarkable, like, ripbly's believe it or not kind of politics. 6 first of all, iowa, the republican governor of that state, the most important mustache in american politics. he signed a bill, the first of his kind anywhere in the country ever. we have seen a lot of anti-abortion bills from the republicans in the federal level and at the state in th