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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  September 25, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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it was. >> omar grant, very sorry for your experience that day. thank you very, very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you very much. you think fidel castro gave long speeches. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. everyone who watch this is program knows of my devotion to winston churchill, the courageous british leader who stood against the nazis, knowing that if britain were to lose the war, he and everyone else in the british government would be killed. i look up to him. all that's good in political leadership.
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ted cruz, whatever else we decide he is, or whatever he decides he wants to be is no winston churchill any more than snoopy was battling the red baron. he gave up the colors and voted the same way as all the other 99 senators. it was barack obama who made history three years ago, not by making some long-winded speech like the kind fidel castro likes to make. it was to get health care for those who had to be treated in emergency rooms. his calling card is just the opposite. he seeks to divide. he seeks to destroy. he seeks to demoralize until the country is so divided its ability to govern so destroyed that even someone like the freshman senator from texas
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starts to look credible. joining us are political analysts. for 21 hours ted cruz stood in a self-made spotlight. make no mistake about it the marathon speaking session was theater, a one-man show casting himself in the hero's lead role. to that point he began his speech by likening his critics, those who oppose funding the affordable care act to nazi sympathizers, nazi appeasers before world war ii. let's listen to his story here. >> you go to the 1940s, nazi germany. look, we saw in britain, chamberlain who told the people except the nazis, yes, they'll
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dominate the continent of europe, but that's not our problem let's appease them. i suspect those same pundits who say it can't be done, if it had been in the 1940s we'd have been listening to them. >> those comments did not sit well with john mccain whose father and grandfather both served in world war ii. here's mccain speaking. >> i resoundingly reject that allegation. that allegation in my view does a great disservice. there were those who went to war because of the barbaric and great threat to civilization and everything we stand for. amongst them were my father and grandfather. i do not agree with that comparison.
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i think it's wrong. >> there you have it. i want david to start here. i haven't heard anything like this in a long time. and the enemies, an issue of procedure, to those that buckled and are afraid of the nazis. his facts are almost all wrong. i get the point. they're the bad guys. anybody who opposes him is the bad guy buckling to naziism. >> it was very easy to see this silly buster in his own political benefit, because i think it catapulted him ahead of rapid paul in the primary contest for the yahoo vote of republican party which is now the dominant faction of the aren't party. but to have him compare himself to winston churchill and saying he was standing between america and naziism with obamacare, i thought we could only attribute
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this to newt gingrich who is always talking about how he is stopping fascism in this country. i think what we've seen with the republican party with mccain out there and ted cruz out there is this divide between reality and whatever you want to call it, bizarre o land. this civil war is not far from over. it's going to play out their 2016. and the republican presidential primary contest and you have ted cruz who thinks he's the savior of the country, i don't know how they're going to get power back from him. >> what do you say? on normal time we'd be talking about october first and watching how the affordable care plan goes into effect and looking at the mistakes, the hard tryout
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and where it would have to be fixed and whatever and debating it as we watch it play out. but instead we're focusing on this act. >> first, for 30 years, republicans have been talking now about two generations about limiting the size of government. they haven't done it. and for the most part they've worked to expand it in one way or another through wars or prescription drug benefits or deficit spending or whatever. now comes this generation that ted cruz is an example of it that is taking on an apocalyptic view of how they want to proceed. everything has to be good or bad. everything has to be good or evil. everything has to be a confrontation. they despise the institution that they're a part of. ted cruz doesn't care about the senate of the united states. he doesn't care about procedure. he cares about -- >> but that's all we have from the republicans. that's all we have. >> i saw him speak to sympathetic audience to him of
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young americans through leadership. this was a group that was founded by ron paul that rand paul is a sponsor of. thousand kids in a ballroom, basically saying, we've got to tear down government. we've got to go back. we've got to dismantle all that's happened the last 40 years. that's the background. now as to him personally, he definitely has a sense of mission that borders on the messianic. that's the way he is, out of touch. >> let's step back and grade him on this. if we don't count the fact that the democrats and republicans had a vote and voted on health care and the president got reelected afterwards and it all became law by normal democratic process and to try to mock that and destroy that, what do we have in this country if we don't have democracy. >> that was john mccain's main point. he said the people have spoken. >> there was a vote. votes mean something.
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>> or else why have them. >> and if you're going to make comparisons to tumult and democracies of the old style, it's ted cruz who's showing his contempt for democrat eck process here. >> let's, ted cruz made a quick stop at rush limbaugh's radio program to defend his republicans. >> the single biggest surprise on arriving to the senate is the defeatest attitude here. i mean we don't even talk about how to win. let's get a show vote. i promise you, rush, if you had to sit through one senate lunch, you'd be in therapy for a month. >> defeatism. let's go there. the guy, where we headed here, david? >> it was kind of nice to see john mccain come out and try to put down this analogy and this excessive rhetoric that ted cruz is throwing around, but i think in a lot of ways by putting
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sarah palin on the ticket, john boehner rode into power on the backs of his tea party tiger. they have handed over the keys to the car to these folks and now they are upset with the gasoline provided by rush limbaugh and other talk radio, that they're out there connecting directly to the base of the party. that's what's going to happen again and again. and it's quite clear that ted cruz is not in town to legislate. he's there to do what sarah palin and others want him to do to talk about death panels. they take hostages not to get leverage, but they want to shoot the bank. >> i call them the blue meth republicans. that's a reference to breaking bad. you can read it on huff post.
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but the point is that they're obsessed with purity. they're obsessed with the purity of their views. they want 96% pure. and they have contempt for the give-and-take of the political process. there's no other way to put it. ted cruz's only interest in the senate is to get himself on television in events like that. >> what they can't stand is barack obama was elected president. what they can't stand is that health care, after decades and generations of fighting for it the democrats finally delivered. even some republicans are for it like nixon and teddy roosevelt. they can't stand obama. >> as i said, chris, for 30 or 40 year, republicans going back to reagan have talked a game about dismantling government. they never did it. ted cruz seems to think -- >> is that what he's doing? he's not doing anything.
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>> i know he's not. i'm just telling you where he's coming from. >> some of this is race based. this thing that's going on since the beginning of this presidency. he's not really president. i had a character on here recently, a member of congress who wouldn't say he was a legitimately elected president. >> this fight is about the fight. they will never let go, whether it's the illegitimacy of the barack obama, the illegitimacy of the democratic progressive viewpoint that's not really america. there are obviously elements of race involved. they did the same thing back to bill clinton back in the day as well, that he was a manchurian candidate had illegitimate kids. >> i know. he went to russia. >> again and again and again. i hate to say this, but i think conservatives have a much harder time accepting political diversity than liberals do. when reagan won, liberals hung
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their head and said oh, the country as behind now. we may have to weather the storm or fight him but no one said he wasn't legitimate. these people actually think something weird and perverse is happening to america and they don't have to acknowledge obama and his accomplishments. >> there's an apocalyptic religious overtone to it. >> is this moonshine what he's doing? >> ted cruz is a slightly separate issue from that movement. i think there's so the legitimacy in the fear of that movement. >> haven't you noticed that -- >> cruz is being dismissed on the hill today as nothing but a grandstander. >> i think there is evidence of this from the 1950s. i think demagogues like this guy, they're roman candles. but where's it going?
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it ain't going to the white house. it's going to some sarah palin land where you quit your job and run around giving speeches because in the end all this is, is a speech. not a legitimate filibuster. >> that may be an optimistic read. i tend to think whoever is the most extreme, legitimate candidate, someone who has a paying job already has the very good chance of becoming the republican nominee. >> i disagree with you. i think ted cruz did a favor for rand paul. >> rand paul will be to joe mccarthy what nixon was to the real mccarthy. they need a more white collar version of this guy. i still predict it's rand paul. thank you. you're almost always right until this moment. coming up. backlash. republicans have been expected to hold the house and make a run at the senate, but could ted
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cruz' antics give the democrats something they haven't really had in a long time -- luck and also hope. also hillary clinton. she's been everywhere recently. and today she may just have told us her plans for the future through 2015. fascinating stuff from hillary clinton tonight. plus the bono showed off his impression of mr. bill. it's really good. >> when i first met bono, he walked into the oval office and i actually thought it was a member of his road crew. let me finish with a reminder that politics wasn't always this bad. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. >> most americans could not give a flying flip about a bunch of
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politicians in washington. who cares? you know, almost all of us are in cheap suits with bad haircuts. you don't want an irs agent decides if your mom lives or dies. it's a little bit like the world wrestling federation. mike lee, i am your father. obamacare is a far less intimidating foe than those i have discussed with a possible exception of the moon. i am not in my argument boots. and i'll confess, i really do feel embarrassed by that. i do not like green eggs and ham.
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new jersey governor chris christi is cruising to a second term. let's check the "hardball" score board. accords to a new quinnipiac poll, christi is dominating his opponent.
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welcome back to "hardball." ted cruz spent a big chunk of his 21 hour rant on the senate floor calling out people in his own party. that came after many asked him not to launch it. yesterday hillary clinton had this warning. now this was a warning for republicans. quote. hillary clinton. they ought to go back and read history, because i will just say it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for democrats if they tried to shut the government down. we have seen this movie before. this is hillary clinton talking.
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and it didn't work out very well for those who were obstructionists. when she was first lady they went through this whole rig ma row in the '90s. the washington post was told we're going to make the case that 2014 is a year for extremist republicans. a cbs poll out today one in six of us say it's an acceptable way to threaten a shut down. 80% say it's not the way to do things. joining me are two "hardball" strategists. i don't know what you think of these numbers, but i have to tell you, i noted the president's health care plan is going to have some rocky beginnings. joining me are two "hardball" strategists. i don't know what you think of these numbers, but i have to tell you, i noted the president's health care plan is going to have some rocky beginnings. i also know that every plan that's been approved by congress
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deserves to have a rocky beginning. i think the public knows there's some problems with the plan, but they don't seem to like cutting and destroying the government process itself to kill it. they don't like that tactic do you agree? >> i agree. the strange thing about the whole thing is, if you talk to a rand paul or, everyone's going to tell you, we don't want a shut down. the problem is, we suffer from sort of message insistence that isn't what the public is saying. >> you're a good guest i appreciate you coming on. >> the reason there's talk of a government shut down is the republicans are out to shut down the government. >> the house passed something where the senate is saying we want a vote. >> they passed a bill, with the condition that we eliminate the entire health care law, just
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eliminate it. >> right, and that we continue to fund the government but we want a vote on that. that's what -- >> that's called shutting down the government. >> but the problem is we outsmart ourselves sometimes. >> outdumb yourselves. >> obamacare is terrible. >> it is? why was it enacted? >> the poll numbers keep going down and down and down. >> why don't you, you are so freaking confident. when they didn't get it before, for example, you won't be just like the pill thing that bush gave everybody. they didn't like it when it came out, section d, whatever it was. they sure like it now. they sure like medicaid and social security. that's what your party's afraid of, aren't they? that people are going to like it? >> yes. by the way -- >> who's cruz helping? >> he's helping himself and
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hurting his open party. he's hurting his party's ability to hold congress in 2014. there was an election in 2012. john mccain made that.. obamacare was the issue in the election and the voters said we want to reelect obama. now they're saying we don't want to shut down the government but we are going to shut down the government because after all, we have to. it's going to be about this 83 to 16 number. are we -- >> do you want it to be about obamacare next year? >> it already was we won in 2012 on obamacare. >> was president obama legitimately elected president? >> absolutely. >> why don't you let it take effect? >> now that more people know about it -- >> it hasn't taken effect yet. it hasn't taken effect yet. >> but people are learning more about it. letters in the mail that their premiums are going up
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dramatically. what i think it should be -- >> stop the government. >> no. i'm not saying that. i think republicans are wrong and are going to hurt 2014 if we do that. but i do think. >> let me ask about this new amalgamation. sarah palin is currently a big republican again without office. she came out strongly backing ted cruz and accusing other republicans of waving the red flag. she's back on fox. >> people talk about a need for a third party. i dare say we already have a third party. we've got the liberal democrats. we've got the gop machine, and then we've got the good guys. that's the third party. ted cruz, rand paul, mike lee, these guys standing strong on what used to be the points in the republican platform. i've always been strong up here in alaska, maybe that's why i'm not in the good graces of the alaskan republican party.
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>> how do you describe that? >> michele bachmann. >> i'm not sure what she's offering. >> neither is she. >> is that an attractive appeal? >> i don't think she's wrong -- >> no is that an attractive appeal. the new republican party splitting off from the republican machine as she calls it. if you're half republican party you're half at 50% at most. what government are you going to form? >> this is simply symptom at eck that we don't have a single voice. >> she said you're better off splitting in half. >> do you think ted cruz -- >> is he a uniter? >> i think he's right on a lot of issues. >> he's dividing the republicans and destroying -- >> is he a divider or uniter? >> i think he's right on the issues. and the problem is that -- >> he's a divider.
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>> i think he's a divider. he's one of those people in american politics for whom bringing down a country's morale is good for him. destroying everything that's been created makes him look good. dividing, that's the key to it. this is agnew stuff. >> this is divide and destroy. he's going to destroy the party that he's a member of by going after its leaders. >> i'm as far outside as you can get and they won't even accept me out here in alaska. >> here's the problem. neither party like it is when somebody gets up and is that passional. they'll say what they want. i remember rick santorum going to the senate floor and saying where's bill?
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you see cruz doing this. i remember president bush getting mad at all the people protesting the iraq war. i thought they were great americans. >> i watched -- one part of the leadership, one quaffed -- the other part is magua. uniter or divider? divider. >> steve mcmahon, thank you for coming here and not answering the most important question. is ted cruz good for the party or not. up next, bono, a pretty good impression of bill. the place for politics right here. [ male announcer ] progresso's so passionate about its new
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back to "hardball," and now for the sideshow. ted cruz's grandstanding against obamacare has received lots of
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attention on twitter. technically a filibuster is used to prevent legislature. but in this case, cruz planned to stop at noon. he had to. let's call this a sue dough filibuster. here is the abridged version. ♪ >> the senator from texas. >> madam president. [ lone ranger theme music ]
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>> the hour of noon having arrived. he had a few stunt men filling in for him. bill clinton's practically a rock star. but even rock stars want to be like him. bono made his best effort at impersonating the former president. take a listen. >> when i first met bono, he walked into the oval office, and actually, i thought it was a member of his own road crew. wasn't really dressed right. actually, i felt like the rock star on that occasion.
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>> i must be really easy to make fun of. >> almost better than the real thing there, don't you think? coming up. hillary clinton lays out her plans for the future. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. i'm only in my 60's... i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, it helps pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands in out-of-pocket costs.
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welcome back to "hardball," hillary clinton speaking today at the clinton global initiative, leading an effort to gauge how far women have come since she made her declaration at the world conference that human rights and womens' rights are one and the same. here she is today. >> 2015 will mark 20 years since that conference in beijing. so i believe it's time for a full and clear-eyed look at how far we have come, how far we still have to go and what we plan to do together about the unfinished business of the 21st century, the full and equal
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participation of women. i will be leading an effort here at the clinton foundation, including through cgi to bring together partner organizations, international institutions, government, businesses, ngos and other does evaluate the progress we've made in time for the 20th anniversary in september 2015. >> did you see that beautiful person sitting there? not hillary clinton. she's attractive obviously, but kathleen, my wife. hillary clinton's 1995 speech was one of the most powerful of her time as first lady. >> if there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women's rights and women's rights are human rights, once and for all. >> a week when the clintons,
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bill, hillary and chelsea have showcased their newly broadened foundation, hillary has declared her focus, one she's had for years -- women. the coming hillary clinton train wreck's author is with us. and amy, you have caused a provocative statement. hillary clinton's very popular in these quarters where i work. very popular not just in d.c. but in new york. people i know can't wait for her to be president. you say the coming train wreck. explain. >> i wonder if everybody who's so excited about her candidacy and presidency is being realistic about what a campaign would look like. what provoked my post was about the clinton foundation and a lot of the financial dealings there and the questions about that.
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there's an awful lot that in the campaign would be asked about there. that one sort of every single big piece on the clinton foundation so far has read like an assignment, a set of assignments for investigative reporters to look into more. i think the clintons have made a lot of choices in the last few years that might not really lead to the best campaign. they're going to lead to a lot of scandal stories that are going to lead to a lot of questions about the relationships formed. and it's a great vision to have a woman as president. it's a great goal, but is she the right candidate? >> i think that's pretty strong. but let me read from the end of your article. the coming hillary clinton train wreck. you write about murky accounting at the clinton foundation. it doesn't even encompass bill's social life or hillary's own shortcomings, it has to do with debts hillary and her family
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have taken on. and might be asked with currency voters to give them to pay back. years and years of fund-raising, these people want access if she gets in. that's the argument. >> i think it's a very good point. like a dc-10. it might have some cracks in the fuselage and you don't want to get in there and look at the wiring. we could be playing the same tunes all over again. the issues being brought up with the clinton foundation, that's lincoln bedroom all over again. >> people think it's about sex. it's about fund-raising. >> the whole idea is access to play with the clintons is by donating lots of money. it has been uniquely associated with the clintons.
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>> they really do, i know this sounds total, totally awful. they like their contributors. a lot of politicians put up with their contributors. they use them to get the money, but they don't want to hang out with them. the clintons really like those people. they like them. >> that pleasure leads to carelessness. it leads to a lack of wariness, a lack of built in radar. that maybe you should back up for a second and think about it and just assess the risks. and that's not always happening. and that's got to happen in the campaign, because it doesn't happen in the primaries in 2016 it will happen in the general election. and that's where you wonder also if this is good for the democratic party to really be shutting off discussions so early about who the other
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possible candidates are. and, you know, it's great it hear her speech about women. it would be so great to have a woman president, but there are a lot of ways you can do good in the word and for the progress of women that don't involve transparency of finances. >> i'm going to start with a guy here. two guys talking about it, two political experts -- i think we are. i have felt and learned this the hard way, that women my age in this country, in their 60s, 50s, whatever, middle-aged you might call it, are tired of the lousy job done by men. ant only woman to get this done is hillary clinton. i've seen this. they want hillary to be president. they don't want to hear any more talk about anything like this. they're tired of excuses. >> all americans were proud of electing the first african-american president. i think hillary made a mistake
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that last time around about not making an issue of being the first woman president. you can always do that now, but -- >> president obama didn't make the case that he was black. >> it was hardly necessary. she was deliberately down-playing it until we got to the end and we heard about the cracks -- >> my problem is that embrace with henry kissinger. she supported the iraq war. everyone i know thought that was a terrible judgment on the part of everybody who went along with it, for whatever reason. and i hold that against people. but the trouble is there are so many democrats who support the war, it's hard to narrow it down to her. last thought, amy. do you think hillary clinton will have a difficult road to the white house? >> i think she will have a very difficult road to the white house. she may not have as difficult
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road to the nomination. some of those are going to be about how good a job she did as secretary of state. and a lot of that was travel and making connections. and you have to ask whose connections? >> and i think the republicans are going to say benghazi one million times. i'm not sure it will add up to one thought. this is "hardball," place for politics. [ thunder crashes ] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit to learn your risk.
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republicans are already trying to tie hillary clinton to president obama's affordable care act. here's south carolina senator lindsey graham. >> they fully embraced obamacare. they're selling this bill as hard as they can sell it. i will never call it obamacare anymore. i will call it clinton care. hillary clinton decided to own obamacare. so in 2016, when this thing falls apart and the economy is in shambles because of obamacare i'm going to hear it clinton care. >> as americans may actually like the affordable care act. they may well like it and that will give democrats a big advantage over republicans who wanted to get rid of it. and he says if that's the case, hillary clinton will actually
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win. he's admitted it in a certain backhanded way. and we'll be right back.
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well, senator cruz stood on the floor for 21 hours. and what he accomplished was that he alienated many of his colleagues on both sides of the aisle. and he showed the american people what he was up to. he is holding the american people hostage because he is so sure he is right. and everybody else is wrong. i was appalled by a couple of things. the analogy to world war ii and hitler.
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>> and that was the reaction to senator cruz's overnight speech, now that the speech is over for now, will the government avoid a shutdown and will there be a compromise between house republicans and democrats to avert this disaster. senator schumer, what is the outlook? what is the future for cruz after his marathon? >> well, his marathon flopped to speak for 21 hours and then have a 100-0 vote. amazing. what he said, we all saw it. i particularly like he used green eggs and ham, and didn't know the book. which is the purpose of the book, the whole moral of the book, which is try something before you reject it, you may like it. i said to ted cruz, try it, you may like it before you vote against it.
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the republicans are divided, angry at one another. and the folly of ted cruz' strategy is becoming apparent. i think it makes it more likely that they will just send us a clean cr after they strip us the writers that they have put in. >> do you think that john boehner, the speaker of the house, is able to corral a house to get the democrats to vote his way, where he can get 217 votes for a clean cr? >> well, john boehner knows the right thing to do. you can see the pain in his face and his body language, because he knows that ted cruz is leading the party over a cliff, but too many people are following ted cruz, there will be enough to say john, put the caucus on the table and we'll vote with you. if there are 118 of them, i think there is a good chance
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there will be. >> what does the republican party look like across the aisle? you have been there a number of years, is the rather than party still the party of john mccain and people like that? >> well, cruz -- cruz and paul have a huge influence. not themselves, personally so much. but you know, the sort of right wing machine that threatens every republican with a primary who doesn't go along. and your typical office-holder says why should i bother with the primary, i may as well go alone? what has happened in the last six months i think increased by what happened today is there are many mainstream republicans who say enough already. he is not helping our party win elections. he is not helping our party gain converts, he is not helping our country. so i think you find the irony that cruise and demint and the foundation, they are still
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conservative of this mainstream wing, but they're not fanatical, certain they're right. >> we spent years trying to divert the catastrophe. do the people on the right know the problems if they default? >> i don't know if they -- they don't listen to anybody else. listen, if we default on our debt there is a good chance that the effect may be even greater than the default of lehman and eig back in 2010. you are locked in with all of these loans, and when the debt goes down, prices, people sell, as we learned in 2008, it is hard to recover.
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now i'm hopeful, and this is only hopeful, that the business community will be so frightened with this prospect that they will be calling up republicans. and they will stand up and say we cannot do this. we cannot do this to our country. it will hurt us substantively and political. but you know in this crazy republican world we have out there, you're never sure. because again, a group of idealogues that have maybe a 5% effect on other americans, scare everybody. >> thank you so much. >> when we get back, we remind you that politics doesn't look like what we see today. it usually has not been like this for the past couple of years. you're watching "hardball," a place for politics. ♪ turn around
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♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around barry ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ ♪
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>> let me finish tonight with this. this sunday is go on "meet the press" to talk about the way politics used to work in this country, about the book i have written the way things were back then, between my boss, tip o'neill, where i spent every day on this thing. and also, offering an excerpt, a reminder that american politics doesn't have to be the way it is today because it has not been that way for long. not too many years ago, a conservative and a house democrat knew how to get things done, without all the craziness negativity that is going on
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right now. they knew their strengths and how to find common ground, they knew how to move this republic forward, and that made all the difference. that is "hardball" for now, thank you for joining us, "all in" with chris hayes starts now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, there is a lot to cover tonight on "all in," but we begin with the senate voting 100-0, unanimous vote, never happens, right? bipartisan comedy, we see it right here. moving forward so as to avoid a government shutdown. and that is how ted cruz stood on the floor saying he would do whatever he could to stop it from going forward. but because his fake filibuster was a foregone conclusion, you have to understand what he did, not higi