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tv   Martin Bashir  MSNBC  November 15, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PST

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offering plans that would be considered substandard under the law. >> a trojan horse coming in to undermine the affordable care act. >> we have got to get away from these junk insurance programs. >> do you think the president saved obama care yesterday? >> was a great first step. >> the americans' whose plans have been cancelled can choose to reenroll. >> this is the most the president could do. >> the president cannot go around waving a magic wand. >> red solo cup. >> what starts twisted stays twisted. >> do not underestimate the presidential directive. >> she is one of a crop of endangered democrats. >> our failure put a burden on democrats. >> they need to feel loved. they need to hug. >> members feel very good about what the president did. >> the white house doesn't have much credibility. >> it's legitimate to expect me to have to win back some credibility. >> why are we here? >> i want democrats to get back on offense. >> i'm the president of the united states. what i'm going to do is make sure we get it fixed. ♪
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good friday to you. and we begin with the president in the eye of a super storm, a political twister fueled by the botched marketplace rollout, and a republican opposition working to block any kind of fix, unless it undermines the affordable care act itself. so the president is meeting right now with insurance executives to discuss his plan to help those who have received cancellation notices to keep those plans for another year. that meeting coming as the house passed a republican bill just a short time ago to allow insurers to offer any old hollow and discriminatory policy in perpetuity. and, despite an avowed presidential veto, the bill's sponsor, congressman fred upton, offered the gop's simple reasoning, shortly before the vote. >> the debate today on whether to support this bill comes to a very simple question. why not?
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>> yeah. why not? after all, we know it's just another repeal vote by another name. and minority leader nancy pelosi described the gop's latest effort as sabotage. >> some really strange notions masquerading as proposals to improve the lives of the american people. and we see a lot of that these days. that idea that it was helping consumers was sort of the trojan horse whose underbelly is poisonous. >> yes, indeed. we are seeing a lot of poisonous underbelly these days, and no one is driving a stable of trojan horses quite like the house oversight committee chair, darrell issa. he was in typical form, leasting a hearing of administration tech officials on the affordable care act website earlier this week. >> with that i recognize the ranking member to try to rehabilitate your testimony. >> it's not about self-serving. it's about getting to the truth. >> the website --
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>> the gentleman's time is expired. >> mr. chairman, i just asked for the same amount of time you had. >> i let you ask the last question after your time had expired. >> can you you cut off the ranking member of this committee. the witness is being badgered. the american people do not want to see a kangaroo court here. >> unfortunately, this is not mr. issa's first kangaroo court. not even close. who can forget his dogged pursuit of white house cu culpability over benghazi, benghazi, benghazi. >> obviously, this was not a gotcha panel, because nobody was gotchaed. >> that witch hunt only rivalled by issa's relentless pursuit of attorney general, eric holder. >> you didn't want us to see the details. mr. attorney general -- >> no, no. >> in knowing the to and from -- >> that's what you typically do. not going to stop talking now. you characterize something as something -- >> mr. chairman, would you inform the witness as to the rules of this committee? >> it's too consistent with the way in which you conduct yourself as a member of congress. it's unacceptable and it's shameful. >> you tell him, mr. holder.
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>> you can actually deny better by not denying. if you deny, they have a right of appeal. if you just let them sit in limbo, they're screwed. and some are still screwed today, isn't that correct? >> that is -- >> a term of art. >> that's what mr. issa calls a term of art. perhaps toronto mayor rob ford would like to borrow that line. joining us now, is the one man who has been forced to endure all of these self-indulgent shenanigans. with us from capitol hill, congressman elijah cummings, ranking member of the government reform committee. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, martin. >> congressman, what ask does it feel like to sit next to chairman issa, who has single handedly rendered his committee almost entirely irrelevant, because every single hearing is never about improving the lot of the american people, it's about showcasing mr. issa's skills as a delusional prosecutor, who would not have been out of place in the salem witch hunt trials
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of 1692. >> i can -- i think the best way to describe it is frustrating. when i think about -- >> frustrating, sir? i'm sure you can find language more descriptive. >> no, it's frustrating. when i think about what we could be doing, when i think about all of the people that, for example, want the affordable care act to work exactly the way it was intended to. when i think about the time that we waste, and the distractions that we pursue, the headlines that are put out there with no facts to back them up by chairman issa. all of those things take us away from where the american people want us to go. they want us to uplift their lives, to make them better. and these kinds of -- these types of allegations he has made, the way the committee is run, takes us in the opposite direction. and to be frank with you, martin, it is very painful, and
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it's very sad. >> but what does it feel like? i mean, what do you think his motivation is? because we have witnessed him on these witch hunts, this fabrication of evidence. virtually every committee hearing, you have to introduce transcripts in order to prove that what he had said was completely false. what is his purpose, do you think? what is the point of this? >> i think we can only go back to his own words. and that was at the very beginning of this term. last term, when he said that he was going to go out, he was going to have 270 hearings, and that he was going to make sure that he made trouble for the white house. he called them the most corrupt administration in history. and so -- then he went out to try to prove that. what we have had over and over again are these allegations
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which are not accurate. and then there are the hearings that come forth. and the facts are never found to back up the allegations. but i'm hoping at some point that the republicans will get tired of that, and will do what the american people want us to do. you know, my constituents did not send me to washington to throw them under the bus. nor do i want to throw anybody else's constituents under the bus. i want to make sure that people have what the congress has intended for them to have. now, keep in mind, one of the things that is also frustrating, martin, is the affordable care act was enacted into law by the congress. so that people could be able to afford reasonable and good insurance. and when we do the things that we have been doing at our hearing, and issa conducts a hearing the way he does, all that does is take away -- as i
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said in the hearing the other day, there's not one republican that i know that is about the business of making the affordable care act better. >> yeah. >> i don't know one. >> but you see -- the thing is, what we don't understand is, mr. issa is the wealthiest member of congress. he has assets that are around half $1 billion. i just don't understand why he's there. he clearly isn't doing it for money purposes, for financial purposes. and yet every action he takes is to deny people of an average middle class people access to affordable health care. >> yeah. yeah, well, i can tell you that people in my district that are excited about the affordable care act, people who have never had insurance, and now they're having an opportunity to get insurance, i've got women who have lupus, who have had tremendous difficulty getting insurance. they'll never be able to get it. and we've got a lot of people
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who simply want to stay alive and stay healthy. and so we've got to make this work. by the way, martin, failure is not an option. >> no. >> and i hear a lot in our committee, chairman issa and others saying we cannot get this done. we will get this done. the website will be resolved, and we'll move forward. >> mr. issa was, of course, among the 261 who voted to pass congressman upton's if you like your discriminatory sub par health care plan, you can keep it. and he was joined by 39 democrats. what's your response to that vote today? >> i think it was very unfortunate. and i think speaker boehner said it before the vote. i think it was yesterday when he said, basically that this was another way to cut the legs from under the affordable care act. it's like putting a dagger, trying to put a dagger in the heart of the affordable care act. but you know what, martin?
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i believe that because it is right, and because it is -- this is a moral thing. people ought to have an opportunity to get well. and to stay well, and to live the very best lives they can. and i believe that right will come out over top of all of this. i don't care what they try to do. keep in mind, we had independent witnesses that came before us the other day call by -- mr. issa, chairman issa, who said -- they told us this website thing would be resolved. they were very clear on that. and it will be. and so i just -- what i'm hoping that folks will hold on, let us get through these rough roads. we're going to -- there is always going to be rough patches in life. i've been on earth for 62 years, and every year there's some kind of rough patch. but i am convinced that in the end, we will get to where we have got to go. and we've got to concentrate, by the way, not on who we are against. but what we are whifighting for.
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>> absolutely. >> that's the most important thing. >> congressman elijah cummings, thank you, sir, for your commitment to that purpose. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, with a slight of hand, republicans reveal their quick and clever fix for health care. but look out for the trapdoor. [ sniffles, coughs ] shhhh! i have a cold with this annoying runny nose. [ sniffles ] i better take something. [ male announcer ] dayquil cold and flu doesn't treat that. it doesn't? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast-acting antihistamine. oh what a relief it is! you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec-d®. powerful relief of nasal congestion and other allergy symptoms -- all in one pill. zyrtec-d®. at the pharmacy counter.
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republicans and even a few democrats seem confused about the health care bill they passed in the house just a short time ago. a number of them are under the false impression that the keep your health care plan act does just that. it let's you keep your health care plan.
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unfortunately, it does not. so as a public service, we have compiled this question and answer reel, with the author of that bill, congressman fred upton of michigan, so that he can correct anyone who thinks somewhat falsely this bill does what it says it does. >> the upton plan would allow people to keep the health plans they like. >> the gentleman needs to read our bill. it doesn't say that the insurance companies must sell those policies. >> we allow people to keep the insurance they used to have. >> it doesn't mandate the health insurance policy has to be granted again. >> joining us now is sally cohen, an activist and columnist with "the daily beast" and michael steele, who, of course, is an msnbc analyst and former rnc chair. and in new york is jonathan alter, msnbc analyst and author. jonathan, let's just make this clear. the upton vote today was basically the 47th attempt to
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repeopr repeal the affordable care act. >> absolutely. it guts the bill, effectively. it pulls a thread on it, and the whole thing unravels, if it were to be passed, and signed by the president, which, of course, it won't be. >> he has announced he wouldn't touch it. >> this is all just kabuki dance. doesn't have anything to do with reality. reality, the thing that is dangerous for the president, is if democrats start to defect. and essentially -- >> 39 voted for this. >> yeah. well, if that starts to happen in a significant way, then obama care could be in trouble. so democrats need to take a hard look in the mirror and say what does it mean to be a democrat in 2013. and the answer is, it means you're for obama care. you're not for fooling around in ways that are going to undermight be the whole thing. you can say -- >> even if those individual members feel their seats are threatened? >> first of all, that is a false assumption. because they're projecting a year into the future. that that's assuming that these
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problems with the website are not fixed. if they're not fixed, real soon, the president is in deep doo-doo. he's already in some doo-doo right now. he's got to get this thing fixed. if he does, and the benefits of obama care start kicking in, martin, then these democrats will do fine when they run for re-election. >> michael, you have always maintained that republicans should respond to the affordable care act by doing absolutely nothing, and leaving it on the shoulders of democrats. so i have to ask you, are you a little disappointed with fred upton's efforts today? >> no. i'm not disappointed in the sense that i get what this was trying to do in the sense that you're trying to fix or address a concern that a lot of americans have expressed, those who have suddenly got letters saying they no longer could keep the plans they have. >> just to be clear, mike -- michael, just to be clear. what that was designed to do, was to continue a set of insurance policies which,
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frankly, contained very little when individuals hit sickness or ill health. >> that's not necessarily true. you have not looked at every policy that those 16 million americans who have been affected -- >> i haven't looked to 16 million shall but plenty of anecdotes. >> i appreciate this wanting to broadly sweep and characterize every insurance policy that falls into this particular trap as somehow being the worst god-awful plan these people have ever had. that's not necessarily the case, because they still kept those policies, and they want them back. so let's set that aside for a moment and deal with your initial question, which is, you know, is this some type of trap, or oh, you know, how should republicans play this? let the democrats own this. you've got 39 of them now who clearly have a different mind. they're probably a lot more but for the president's somewhat intervention yesterday in his press conference. the number probably would have been a lot higher. let's see how this plays out for democrats. my only other point, martin, would be republicans not sit back and joyfully shake their
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hands and go, hercules, we've got them on the ropes. they still have to propose something that's either going to address this law -- >> good luck with that. you'll be waiting five years for that. >> no. but it's just -- that's a fair point, martin. you know, i will see that. republicans just cannot play this one-sided game here, and i think that the american people expect them to take something from them and not put something back in return. >> very quickly. >> correct you very quickly. it's not $16 million. it's under 5%. >> 5% of 300 million people is 16 million. >> no, that's not -- that's not the figure of those people getting individual insurance who are being cancelled. it's much, much lower. >> we'll debate that later. sally, when the gop recite horror stories about constituents losing their health care, they often cite a melissa or sinna without a last name. difficult to fact check. perhaps these people prefer anonymity. or could there be another reason for that?
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>> well, every story that's been surfaced, journalists have dug into and found that, in fact, you know -- and i get it. people get those cancellation letters. and it's estimated, by the way, to be 2 to 4% of the american population that's actually getting those cancellation letters. they get those cancellation letters, and you say, oh, no, what am i going to do? and there's also been evidence that talking points memo and others have exposed that the insurance company is -- shocker here -- insurance companies aren't upstanding corporate citizens. they're using it as an excuse to try and up sell customers on more expensive policies, rather than say, hey, you can go either within our own company or other companies and find more affordable options. so people initially get the letters, they freak out, the letters end up in the hands of republicans who exploit them for political gain. and actual journalists dig into every story, and find that every story uncovered, they have more options, they are more affordable and they are for better coverage. >> that's right. >> and that's the reality of the law. >> we just need to be clear about what these policies that
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are being cancelled largely consist. they are fake insurance. to give an example. they cover two doctors' visits a year. in other words, if you get sick, you're not covered. it's all out of pocket. covering two doctors' visits a year is not insurance. you know, by any reasonable definition of insurance against risk, which is the risk of getting sick. so -- some of these should be grandfathered in. >> michael steele is laughing. >> ridiculous. >> a lot of these plans end. that was the original intent. >> michael steele is laughing saying this is nonsense. >> i'm not -- >> they have found out when they looked at the actual plans, michael. as a weapon. >> that may be. but these are plans -- when did this all of a sudden become about the quality of health insurance policies. >> that was the point of obama care. >> wait a minute, no, no, no. remember. excuse me, jonathan. who was at the table with the
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obama administration helping to write this bill? the insurance companies. so don't sit back here now and act like all of a sudden there is some great villain, and that they weren't aware what -- the administration was and what the plans are. come on, dude. >> no, i say to my good friend, michael. and we are friends. you need to look at the -- what the origins of this was. with the insurance companies. the deal that they cut was, they would bring up the level of coverage so that it was real insurance that was offered with preventive benefits, with, you know, benefits if approximate you got sick, real insurance. and in exchange for that, they got a much larger pool. much larger risk pool. >> who do you think is behind what is happening now? >> the whole idea was to bring up the standard of insurance. that was the behind -- >> final word to you, sally. you have managed to improve your own health insurance selection, is that correct? >> i did. i saved over $5,000 a year. and you know, i'm grateful for it. and i'm grateful that i had over
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50 options to choose from on the exchange that were more affordable than my current insurance. you know what's getting lost here, this sort of forest through the trees, is that why there are 47 votes from republicans to try and destroy the law and is by extension president obama. their sort of continual goal. this law is actually popular. not yet in its aggregate. but when you drill down into each of the pieces of the law, getting rid of the ability of insurance companies to kick you off because of preexisting conditions, or the tax credits for small businesses or even the individual mandate. people like them -- the majority of republicans, even like them. and the longer this law takes effect, once the website gets fixed, republicans are going to have trouble fighting against it, because even their own people are going to like this. >> and we proposed each of those as individual bills in 2009 and they were summarily rejected by the democrats. >> ladies and gentlemen, sally cohen, michael steele. thank you so much. coming up, we applaud your refrts, mr. wallace, but the
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answer is staring you in the face. >> i think it's fair to say, in my 35 years, here in washington, i have never seen a member of congress so totally alien ate his colleagues as you did last month. i literally had top republicans unsolicited offering me research and questions to confront you. because they were so upset with you. simple question. was it worth it? ♪ khan academy is a not-for-profit with a mission of providing a free world-class education for anyone, anywhere. if you look at a khan academy video, they cover everything from basic arithmetic to calculus, trigonometry, finance. you can really just get what you need at your own pace. and so, bank of america came and reached out to us and said, "we are really interested in making sure that everyone really understands personal finance." we're like, "well, we're already doing that."
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surprise to senator ted cruz. here he is on "the tonight show show." >> i'm one of the many people not a fan of shutting down the government. >> you looked like a big fan from where i was sitting. >> that's right. ted cruz says he didn't want to shut down, and, of course, the audience laughs. you would think he would learn a lesson from that. but you would be wrong. >> i didn't want to shut down. throughout the whole thing, i said, we shouldn't have a shutdown. now, folks here can disagree. but repeatedly, i voted to keep the government open. >> what they're laughing about is that obviously, yes, keep the government open, but only if obama care was defunded or only if obama care was delayed. >> so you've had jay leno explain it. now chris wallace. perhaps senator cruz should embrace this comedy routine and take his show on the road. ted cruz, a world tour of delusion. and we have just the person to serve as his opening act. stay with us. the day's top lines are next. ♪
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uh-oh. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. from karate men to genius republicans, here are today's top lines. bruce lee was my teacher. >> the world tai kwan do federation issued vladimir putin an honorary black belt. >> i'm a karate man! >> in an elite class, even surpassing chuck norris. >> vladimir putin comes up on top of president obama as the most pour ohful leader. >> what? i -- >> this is kind of pile-on time now. >> yeah, it is. >> for the president. >> do you think the president lied to the american people on purpose? >> i understand why folks are frustrated. >> it's dishonest. just dishonest. >> they are determined to sabotage this bill. >> what starts twisted, stays
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twisted. >> to kill this bill. >> the giddy side of the republican party. >> we all look like geniuses now. >> it literally kills women. i had a mother last night come up to me here in tampa, florida. >> kills children. >> she told me her little daughter took that vaccine. kills senior citizens. >> and she suffered from mental retardation thereafter. we all look like geniuses now. >> i mean, s-m-a-r-t-y. >> i am smatest man alive. >> excuse me, guys. >> you're never as dumb as you look when you're losing. >> i always kept that in mind in periods like this. >> hit me in the face with a hammer. >> you have to fight your way through it. >> i have to take legal action against the waiter that said i was doing lines at the beer market. >> i am not a crack user. >> so -- >> i said it would not happen again. i'm not part of gangbangers. never happened again at the air canada center. >> have you purchased illegal
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drugs in the last two years? >> yes, i have. >> yes! he did it! he won! >> let's get right to our panel. joining us is jonathan capehart of "the washington post." and hysterical josh barrow of business insider. josh, i mean, what do you make of rob ford? i mean, he smoked crack, he lies about it, he is still the mayor. only in america, only he's in canada. >> not only is he still the mayor, a poll came out on wednesday that says he has a 40% approval rating. he's as popular in toronto as barack obama is the united states. it's this crazy thing. and i think part of it is, you know, rob ford has always been kind of a buffoon. we didn't know he smoked crack three years ago, but it was that he still won despite this persona. and he really does connect with people out in the working class suburbs that are part of the city of toronto. he's a real populist, a man of the people. he doesn't have good judgment so the people includes crack gangs.
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he'll hang out with anybody. but there is still something kind of magical about rob ford allowing him to cling to a certain degree of popularity, even while everybody hates him. >> and john, to josh's point. there was once a mayor of a major u.s. city caught on tape smoking crack, marion berry. how come he had to go but rob ford manages to stay? >> maybe that's the difference between americans and canadians. maybe canadians have a higher threshold for lunacy. but keep in mind, marion barry was voted out of office but then voted back into office and still sits on the city council here in washington. so, you know, crack might kill, but it doesn't kill political careers. >> clearly not. josh, it may take a genius to figure out exactly what's happening in canada. but we're fortunate, because we have michelle "genius" bachmann to explain how we can resolve this. here she is. >> again, the american people
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expect competence. they expect their lives will be better, not worse. we hate to say we told you so, but quite honestly, we all look like geniuses now. >> do they really look like geniuses? >> no. and michele bachmann does not hate to say "i told you so." >> no. i mean, well, look, the one thing republicans have had really right about obama care all along is that it changes the health care system. and they have run on fear of change. they said that it would change people's health plans. the president said it wouldn't. and the president was wrong. there is a substantial minority of americans whose health plans really are changing. >> she said adults, senior citizens and children would literally die. >> oh, that part wasn't true. >> oh, okay. >> yeah. no, but the thing is, republicans have done very well at mer fermenting this year. they have their own aspirations. paul ryan has big changes he wants to make to medicare. >> yeah, i can't wait for those. >> so to the extent republicans have been good at making change, they can defeat the president's plan but hard against their own
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agenda. >> john, if michele bachmann is a genius, then i guess what, does that make rand paul william shakespeare? >> i mean, it must. the idea that michele bachmann said this makes us look like geniuses is beyond -- beyond hilarious. i'm actually speechless, because, you know -- martin, i don't know where to go. >> josh -- i'll ask you. if michele bachmann is a genius, does that make honey boo-boo mother teresa? >> how many of these do you have? i think rand paul, he's not shakespeare, maybe he plagiarized shakespeare. no, i think david axelrod had it right in that clip you showed. you never look as smart as you are when you're winning. and republicans feel pretty good right now because the health care law is blowing up in the president's face in a couple ways. the website has been such a disaster for the president. they knew all along there were
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going to be several million americans whose individual market plans would be cancelled. the idea was supposed to be they would shop on the website and many would find new and better options available to them. and they're in this difficult situation where tharold situation is changing and the new situation is not ready. and to to the extent the white house can get the health care website fixed and get people enrolled, if we really get 14 million people with new health coverage by march 31st, the president will start looking a lot smarter and republicans won't feel as smart as they do right now. but that's a question. can they get it fixed in time. >> indeed, it is. >> as smart or smug as they are right now. >> josh barrow and jonathan capehart, thank you so much. stay with us. and we'll be right back in a moment. ♪ if yand you're talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about trying or adding a biologic. this is humira, adalimumab. this is humira working to help relieve my pain.
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defense must have an honest and reasonable belief of imminent death or imminent great bodily harm to himself or another person. and the use of force is necessary to prevent that imminent death, or imminent rape, bodily harm to himself or another person. >> the circumstances surrounding a tragic incident in which an unarmed, 19-year-old african-american woman was shot and killed on a doorstep just outside of detroit are beginning to clarify. and now that the shooter has been charged with second degree murder in addition to two other charges, we're likely to learn many more details in the coming weeks. we have also now learned that renisha mcbride, the teenager whose life was taken, was intoxicated, bloodedied and bruised at the time of her death. she may also have had marijuana in her system. for some, this may change the narrative of the incident. but it does not change the facts. it does not change the fact that a man with a gun was inside of
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his locked home when a young woman knocked at his door, at his outer door, after being involved in a road traffic accident. nor does it change the fact there was no sign of forced entry. and it does not change the fact that a 5'4" teenager was shot in the face while apparently seeking help. for more, i'm joined now by columnist and msnbc contributor, goldie taylor, whose new column "breaking black" can be found at the, and democratic strategist julien epstein. goldie, the prosecutor made sure to emphasize that in order to claim self defense, the shooter would need to have had an honest and reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. given that he has now been charged with second degree murder and manslaughter, does this suggest to you that the prosecutor does not believe that he was justified in firing at this young woman's face? >> well, you know, this prosecutor, kym worthy, has a very long and storied track
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record for taking her time. for making sure she has her facts in order before she brings charges. and i believe that's the case here. you know, the fact of the matter is, he's not worthy of guilty degree murder. he didn't wake up that night planning to shoot anybody. but certainly he has a duty of care. he had a duty of care that night for the person standing on his front porch. did he feel like he was in imminent harm? did he have a reasonable thought about that? clearly, this woman was a greater distance away from him than most people believed, that he shot her through a locked screen door. did he have a duty to close that second door and call the police first? i think that the prosecutors are saying that, in fact, he did. that he was not in danger of great harm, and thus, you're seeing these charges of second degree murder. >> julian, do you think that finding a high level of alcohol in renisha mcbride's blood makes her death anymore justifiable? >> no, i think it will be irrelevant. and i think there is an even
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more important point than the ones goldie pointed out about self defense, which is the alleged shooter here claimed the shooting was unintentional. the gun went off oh unintentional unintentionally. so if he is saying the gun went off unintentionally, it's hard for him to say he used the gun in self defense. so i don't see how they're going to square that argument. if they try to change the story and say the shooting was intentional and it was an act of self defense, i don't think it comes close to meeting the standard. that said, we, of course, don't want to prejudge this. he is entitled to his day in court. the other larger picture that i think is important to point out is these stand your ground laws are creating an environment of violence. the studies that have been done and data done show that in states that have stand your ground laws, we have an increase in the homicide rate of 8 to 10%. we also know stand your ground laws are no friends to african-americans, who we know that if the victim -- >> notwithstanding what ted cruz has said. >> well, his -- he uses very, very bad data in this case, as he does in many other cases.
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if you're an african-american victim, and a stand your ground state, the chances of the shooter being acquitted are higher than if you are a white victim. again, it's another argument, it's another piece of evidence that shows the self defense argument generally is not a very strong argument. we have -- you know, 11, 12,000 homicides in this country every year. only 2% are self defense homicides. it just doesn't hold water. >> goldie, this is a neighborhood in which 90% -- almost 90% of residents are white. what part do you believe this form of american apartheid plays, and do you think that things would have turned out differently if renisha mcbride had been a white woman in a predominantly white area? >> you know, there is no way to know specifically. but what we do know is that detroit, like st. louis, like chicago, like atlanta, like many of our american cities, are among the most segregated around. and so you don't have a lot of people who are black and white
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actually living together. in this case, you know, she was just a little ways away from the detroit line. in fact, the accident she had that night happened inside the city limits, and she walked the six blocks, looking for help, until she found herself in dearborn, where she, unfortunately, knocked on the wrong door. and so there is no way to say whether or not this gentleman had race in mind that night. whether or not that played into his idea that someone may be breaking into his house that night. i think that's why you didn't see charges that this was a hate crime in any way. but did he profile the person standing on his porch? he did. but do we know that race was one of those elements? we don't know. we're going to have to wait until the facts come out in this trial. i think if there are people in detroit who have some very strong suspicions about that, that she's 19 years old, just a bit younger than my youngest child. and that she found herself in need of help that night. and rather than someone coming to her aid, she was shot in the face. with a .12 gauge shotgun.
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and that's the kind of thing that raises an awful lot of questions about the racial dynamics that may or may not have played out here. i think we -- i think we ought to be responsible about that. >> absolutely. >> i think that's right. and why we don't know if race was involved, what we do know is in places where you have racial segregation and racial tension, stand your ground laws can be the igniter fuel that sets off these kinds of incidents. >> absolutely. >> we can't necessarily connect this to the trayvon martin case. but what we can say is if there was no gun in the trayvon martin case, and if there was no gun in this case, then both parties in both incidents would still be alive. >> absolutely true. julian epstein and goldie taylor, thank you both so much. and remember, you can read goldy's column, breaking black at the confidence and contrition from the president at the white house. we'll go there in a moment. ♪ we all have our tricks. mom swaps my snack for a piña colada yoplait. and when mom said i was going out too much, i swapped it for staying in.
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with only 39 democrats voting for the gop's health care fix today, fewer than gop predictions, it would appear the president and his solution to worries over dropped coverage has held his party together. and moments ago, meeting with health insurance ceos, the president made this promise. >> because of the problems with the website, some folks have been blocked from seeing the well-priced benefits that are available in the marketplace. well, we're going to be brainstorming how do we make sure that everybody understands what their options are. >> and just outside of that meeting is nbc's kristen welker. kristen, we saw a very different president this week, more than any other time i can remember. he put the weight of office and the failures personally on his own shoulders. you've covered this president for a very long time. have you seen anything like this before? >> i haven't, martin. this was really the most contrite that we have ever seen
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president obama. the administration behind the scenes in damage control mode in a way that i certainly haven't seen before either. i think the only instance that comes close is back in 2011 during the debt ceiling debate, when the nation came close to defaulting on its loans. you could sense the anxiety here at the white house. that's really the only instance it's come close to this. and, of course, some people are jumping to the conclusion that this is similar to bush's handling of katrina. i can tell you that if you bring that up here at the white house, they reject that. a lot of expletives start flying around. they say these are apples and oranges. they say, perhaps it's closer to the bp oil spill. however you want to frame it, though, there is no debate that this is a legacy issue. this is the president's signature piece of legislation. there is so much riding on the administration's ability to get this health care website and health care plan running
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smoothly. you sense that, you can see it in the faces of the people here. and then, of course, he has mapped out other broader second-term agenda goals, like immigration reform. like passing a broader budget. and those things are in peril right now, as this administration is sort of putting out fires and in damage control mode. and as you point out, martin, that meeting ongoing with the president and ceos from insurance companies. a lot of folks expecting that will be a tense meeting. >> nbc's kristen welker, a woman who has never uttered an expleti expletive. thank you so much. and we'll be right back. ♪ and our networks are getting crowded. but if congress, the fcc, and the administration free up... more licensed wireless spectrum, we can empower more... people to innovate, create new technologies and jobs...
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and strengthen the economy. america is the world's leader in wireless. let's keep it that way. free up licensed spectrum today, so wireless... can do more for america tomorrow. there's nothing like being your own boss! and my customers are really liking your flat rate shipping. fedex one rate. really makes my life easier. maybe a promotion is in order. good news. i got a new title. and a raise? management couldn't make that happen. [ male announcer ] introducing fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. an important message for americans eligible an important message for
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see who does good work and compare costs. it doesn't usually work that way with health care. but with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and estimates for how much i'll pay. that helps me, and my guys, make better decisions. i don't like guesses with my business, and definitely not with our health. innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. it's time now to clear the air. and we end this week in the way it began. with america's resident dunce, sarah palin, scraping the barrel of her long deceased mind, and
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using her all-time favorite analogy in an attempt to sound intelligent about the national debt. >> our free stuff today is being paid for by taking money from our children, and borrowing from china. when that note comes due -- and this isn't racist, so try it. try it anyway. this isn't racist. but it's going to be like slavery when that note is due. >> it will be like slavery. given her well-established reputation as a world class idiot, it's hardly surprising that she should choose to mention slavery in a way that is abottominable to anyone who knows anything about its barbaric history. so here's an example. one of the most comprehensive first-person accounts of slavery comes from the personal diary of a man called thomas thistlewood,
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who kept copious notes for 39 years. thistlewood was the son of a tenant farmer, who arrived on the island of jamaica in april 1750, and assumed the position of overseer at a major plantation. what is most shocking about thistlewood's diary is not simply the fact that he assumes the right to own and possess other human beings, but is the sheer cruelty and brutality of his regime. in 1756, he records that a slave named darby catched eating kanes had him well flogged and pickled, then made hector, another slave, s-h-i-t in his mouth. this became known as darby's dose, a punishment inn invented by thistlewood that spoke only of inhumanity. and mentions a similar incident in 1756. this time in relation to a man he refers to as punch. flogged punch well, and then
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washed and rubbed salt pickle, lime juice and bird pepper, made negro joe piss in his eyes and mouth. i could go on. but you get the point. when mrs. palin invokes slavery she doesn't just prove her rank ignorance. she confirms if anyone truly qualified for a dose of discipline from thomas thistlewood, she would be the outstanding candidate. thanks so much for watching. ed schultz is next. good evening, americans, suspect welcome to "the ed show," live from seattle, washington. let's get to work. ♪ >> working families across america were counting on this president. >> cancellations today, sticker shock tomorrow. >> the real problem the president has is a broken promise. his dishonesty. >> 47% with him, depend upon


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