l soon hit governor nikki haley's desk. if she signs it, olivia's work will all have been worth it, and it will still have been this amazing that this is how it had to happen. good work, olivia. you're almost there. best new thing in the world paging dr. rove. dr. karl rove. >> i didn't say she had brain damage. she had a serious health episode. >> karl rove is trying to explain comments he made about former secretary of state hillary clinton. >> walking back his reported comments about hillary clinton's brain clot. >> following a blood clot in her brain in 2012. >> karl rove suggested hillary clinton may have brain damage. >> he allegedly said she had brain damage. >> for real. >> no, no, no, no, no. wait a minute. no, no. >> he said his remarks had been misrecorded. >> this is a top republican

campaign strategist, karl rove. >> i won't be the doctor sitting on "the new york times" board. >> raising what he later called a serious health matter. >> going to want to examine all of their health records. >> a clinton spokesman fired back. >> hillary's camp shoots back assuring dr. rove she's 100%. >> tell dr. rove she's 100%. >> dr. rove, he didn't do very well in medical school. >> this is not a new pattern of behavior by mr. rove. >> usually this late in the campaign some troll under the bridge starts whispering about the opposing candidate. >> this, i think, is a strategy. >> this is part of the republican game plan. >> the republicans are playing a very calculated political game. >> dr. rove. >> dr. rove. >> dr. rove. ♪ i am ari melber in for lawrence o'donnell. we begin with serious heat on karl rove all for his attempt to put heat on a very popular democrat.

rove known for dirty tricks had to go and explain to his fox colleagues why he reportedly lashed out at hillary clinton's mental competence at a conference last week. >> this is what the "post" writes. he suggests that hillary clinton might have brain damage. is that true or not? >> well, i never used that -- no, i never used that phrase. i never used that phrase. but look, she had a serious episode, a serious health episode. >> it quotes you as saying 30 days in the hospital, question mark. and when she reappears, she's wearing glasses only for only people that have traumatic brain injury. it says she was? the hospital for three days and i'm trying to figure out what the accuracy was there. >> she goes in "a sunday, comes out on a wednesday. this is a 30-day period. and they're not particularly forthcoming. remember on the 30th, they won't even say where the blood clot was. it takes 24 hours to come out and say. >> you're raising questions about what happened. >> rush limbaugh was watching rove on fox.

here's what he took away from rove's pushback. >> look, karl did not raise this issue by accident. i worked with and for karl for a long time, and this was a deliberate strategy on his part to raise her health as an issue. >> he's walking back brain damage, but he thinks that she suffered some kind of catastrophic or serious injury when she fell. we know that she fell. she hit her head on something. and he says she's wearing glasses that someone would wear with serious brain damage. >> glasses only worn by people who have supposedly suffered, quote, major brain damage. you see, they're already moving from brain damage to major brain damage. it may be too much for even some republicans. nicole walls, here she says on "morning joe." >> look, karl did not raise this issue by accident. i worked with and for karl for a long time, and this was a deliberate strategy on his part to raise her health as an issue and i think in his view a legitimate line of questioning. ahead of the next campaign.

what's interesting to me and doesn't seem to be in line with karl is that he had some of the facts wrong. she wasn't in the hospital for 30 days. listen, this sounded pretty off the wall to me. she will answer questions about her health if her voters have questions about them, but this attack seemed out of place, out of time and some of the basic facts seemed to be wrong. >> out of place and wrong. that assessment is from rove's former colleague in the bush white house. and that's another reason why this is bigger than a media firestorm. karl rove may be embedded in the press at fox news, but he is first and foremost and to this day a strategist and kingmaker in the republican party. rove's american crossroads and crossroads gps spent $174 million in the last presidential election according to the sunlight foundation, and 70% of that was raised from those anonymous donors we hear so much about. ironically, his fund-raising was made possible in part because of clinton or rather a citizens united decision which was, of

course, about one of those conservative anti-hillary videos. back in 19 the 4, it was rove working for george w. bush who defeated texas's first female governor, ann richards. a flyer campaign insinuating she was a lesbian and insinuating there's something wrong with that which rove denied. in 2000 rove was again working for bush in the primary when bush was trailing john many being contain in south carolina and push polls started asking about mccain's, quote, illegitimate black love child, end quote. there are claims that he orchestrated that attack. he's denied that as well. now, those rumors about mccain weren't true. in fact, he has an adopted daughter from bangladesh. but george bush did go on to win that dirty, dirty karl rove south carolina primary and ultimately the presidency. sometimes the suggestions in politics are enough. joining me now is steve schmidt and msnbc political analyst, and my colleague, krystal ball, host of "the cycle."

let's get right to it. >> good to be with you. >> is karl rove out of bounds here? >> well, look, to state the obvious as a political tactic is hillary clinton's health issue. he has effectively injected this into the political discussion, and for sure, nicole pointed this out on the segment that you ran earlier. this is an issue that hillary clinton will have to answer. she'll have to deal with over the course of the campaign. now, do i think that this was cleverly done? do i think that, you know, this was appropriate that this, you know, was high-minded politics? of course not. but having worked for john mccain when you have a candidate who's 69, 70, 71, 72 in that age bracket, all of these issues are going to be on the table. they're all going to be asked about, and the candidates are going to have to deal with them. >> i hear you there. i don't think john mccain faced this, although as we mentioned,

he's definitely faced the ugly side of the rove tactics. but when mccain ran, krystal, there were a lot of questions about his medical records and discussing it i would say from the point of let's learn, not from assuming the negative or the allegation here. steve mentions the hillary response which will be relevant. here it is. quote, from the moment this happened 17 months ago, the right has politicized her health. first they accused her of faking it. now they've resorted to the other extreme and are flat out lying. all rove wants to do is inject the issue into the echo chamber, and he is succeeding. >> he is succeeding which is what is sort of sad about this, and he recalls in that statement that initially hillary had been called to the hill to testify about benghazi. she was unable to because she was sick at the time. the rumor and allegation then was she was faking it. now the allegation obviously is that it was so serious and the clintons are hiding something and let's find out what the whole truth is. i think that if you've liked what republicans have done on

benghazi and if you've liked what republicans did demanding president obama's birth certificate and transcripts and whatever else they've been demanding from him, i think that is going to be very much the playbook that is employed here with hillary. no matter what she releases in terms of medical transcripts, medical records going into a presidential election, it will never be enough. there will always be more questions. and we're just asking questions here. we're just raising the issues because voters should know. i think that is going to be what we see going forward. >> well, i think you're putting your finger on an interesting point and something that maybe hopefully is changing in politics. and steve, i want to bring you back in. there's the politics of smear, and there's the politics of evidence. the birth certificate was a smear and a racist one at that. it didn't help defeat barack obama. he got re-elected. i don't know that it helped the republican party in the long term. >> it hurt republicans. it hurt republicans. >> let me read to you what david plouffe said. having run the campaign that beat her last time, and we barely beat her, she's in a much stronger position than she was then. republicans realize, i think,

how tough she'll be to beat. he said that on a panel in washington today. you were there with him. do you think this also shows the overwhelming strength of hillary clinton that it's this desperate this early and probably false, as best we know? >> well, it looks desperate. the republican party over recent years just had a penchant for indulging all matter of conspiracy theories that have hurt the republican party. democrats go into this election with a strong structural advantage. as we've talked about before, if you look at just the states where democrats have won six out of the last six elections, they have 242 electoral votes, and she will be for sure a very formidable candidate. and republicans would be better off spending their energy devoted to putting together a platform, policy ideas to get this country moving again in the right direction because we certainly won't be successful, and i can guarantee you there will be a profound impact for the negative if you're a republican with regard to women voters if, you know, the white

male establishment of the republican party is beating up on hillary clinton with this type of stuff. >> yeah, i think that's absolutely right. and let's not forget that we've already seen more than a few hillary clinton conspiracy theories, you know, that she was behind the shoe getting thrown at her, that she was behind chelsea's pregnancy. >> i hadn't heard that one. >> you hadn't heard that? yeah, that's out there. that exists. i don't think karl rove engaged in that particular delusion, but that one was out there as well. but i think to your point, it does speak to a desperate attempt here. it speaks to a desperation in the republican party where they feel like the only way they could beat hillary clinton is if she has brain damage. i mean, that's what -- it's not just -- >> it's weird. >> -- sort of a dirty political trick. i also think it's sort of pathetic in that way. >> yeah. and steve, i mean, that goes to the problem here that's not only political but also with that kind of demagoguery. krystal's saying that they can't actually win a fair fight with hillary clinton, so they have to pretend or deceive their way.

and that was the issue with john mccain. you worked for someone who it's either none of our business or kind of wonderful that he happens to have this adopted daughter. and if you believe the reporting that's out there, rove and that campaign went around and helped defeat your old boss in a racist way. >> well, i worked for president bush as well, and i take karl at his word for it that he was not involved in that effort, that smearing of john mccain in the 2000 campaign. absent evidence to the contrary, you have to believe karl's take on that. that being said, politics is tough business. these health issues that have now been introduced into the campaign, you know, hillary clinton is going to have to demonstrate through the campaign, assuming she runs, with vitality, with vigor, that she is up to the job. she'll be tested like any presidential candidate will be every day that she's on the road. and for sure, she's going to have to answer questions to the media in the same way that mitt

romney did about his taxes on this issue. so we'll see how it develops, but may not have been pretty, but karl has introduced an issue that in the political world, both republicans and democrats spend a lot of time privately speculating and talking to each other about. >> sure. and that is sort of the evil genius aspect of it. it's why he has his reputation. i appreciate your perspective, having worked with him, and you have the right to your views. i also think it's an effort to shift the burden here and to put an extra burden on someone of a certain age, whether voters recoil against that including older voters is also an open political question. steve schmidt, krystal ball, thank you both for joining me tonight. be sure to join krystal ball tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. on msnbc for "the cycle," a little show in the afternoon. coming up, testimony on the gorge washington bridge from the most senior official of the christie administration so far and what the surveillance video of jay-z, beyonce and solange knowles tells us about corporate surveillance.

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aiken will face republican incumbent renee elmers in november. up next, the most senior person in the christie administration to be called to testify in the bridgegate investigation appeared before the committee today. what he had to say straight ahead.

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people the committee summoned to discuss the george washington bridge scandal. today you could hear some of the trademark emotion and emphatic conclusions that both men tend to favor. >> i had no knowledge or involvement in the planning or execution of this strange, unnecessary and idiotic episode. those infamous e-mails leaked the morning of january 5th which revealed the true abusive nature of what actually occurred last september were shocking and disorienting. i will say this. i do not know what to believe about david wildstein or bridget kelly, in particular. the personal betrayal by david wildstein came from someone i trusted. i now know how badly, regrettably, even naively i misplaced that trust. >> one thing we do know is federal prosecutors will compare today's testimony to what drewniak told them previously. he has reportedly cooperated with the u.s. attorney's office on their separate investigation,

an office that drewniak worked in before christie took it over. he also described the moment of he became aware of lane closures and when he started to inform others. >> i became aware of the issue on the 17th. i received an inquiry -- i believe it was from either and/or heather haddon and ted mann of "the wall street journal." i had mentioned it to mckenna that wildstein had alleged that these other two folks had knowledge of a traffic study or a lane closure. i don't remember exactly his wordage. i'm not sure entirely when that was. sometime in november. >> it's the 5th of december, you are in a meeting with mr. o'dowd, and governor christie enters. >> the governor walks in. and as he often does, and i had been telling kevin about the

dinner from the previous night. and i think the governor actually came in in the middle of that. >> you heard him mention there heather haddon from "the wall street journal." i'm going to speak to her about this in a moment. but also another thing that happened, in his monthly ask the governor radio town hall, christie says he doesn't recall his conversation that fight, but he did field a question about 2016. >> you're meeting with some pretty heavy hitters in the gop money circles. there's been a lot of chatter at least among some about jeb bush being pressed to run. do you have any thoughts on that? are you hearing anything on the campaign trail? >> you know, not as much as you would think. on the presidential stuff, you know, most people just say to me, if you decide to do it, good luck. you know, we think you'd be great, that kind of thing. >> that's all anybody says. good luck. joining me now is heather haddon, reporter for "the wall street journal," who helped break some of the stories behind the scandal and hunter walker from "business insider" who's been on this story on air and in print. welcome to you both.

>> thank you. >> what did you learn today? >> there wasn't any bombshells. there wasn't any revelations why these bridge closures were caused, but we did get some new details and particularly about the chief counsel, charles mckenna who you referred to in the tape just there. so michael drewniak talked more in depth than we've heard before about him discussing some of the press coverage of the lane closures and also that bridget kelly and bill stepien appeared to know about thigh lane closures. so there was some early conversations about that that we didn't really know about that before. and so the question going forward, is charles mckenna going to be a new target for this legislative committee? are they going to be looking at him? what did he know? who did he tell? i think those are he requests we have going forward now. >> you also see the traffic study come back up. people remember the governor's infamous press conference. is there a traffic study? maybe there was. it was weird because it felt like this very odd fig leaf

considering how much reporting suggested there was no traffic study because this was political payback. take a listen to that and a discussion about wildstein. >> wildstein also told me that he took responsibility for the -- full responsibility, and i created -- this was my idea. it was said, i told the governor about the traffic study, and he had said that he had done that on september 11th. >> when they were seen together at the memorial? >> what's going on there and your thoughts on today? >> well, one of the big reasons that drewniak was called to testify here is he had this dinner with wildstein right before wildstein was basically asked to resign from the port authority. and at that dinner, he said that wildstein made him aware that he had told christie about the traffic study. it's something christie says he doesn't remember. but the point heather made before that bridget kelly and bill stepien were apparently

supposed to be aware of this. christie was apparently supposed to be aware of this. all of this was contradicted by christie at that press conference where he joked about moving the traffic cones. >> yeah. let me -- i want to jump in there because that's the thing, whether you remember iran-contra or the wolf of wall street, ten people testifying, i don't remember, i don't remember, at a certain point politically that can become a problem. let me play some more of the exchange of the governor about drewniak's testimony. >> he said he spoke to you after having dinner with david wildstein on december 4th. on the 5th he claimed that they knew about the lane closures. what he testified was your response when he talked to you about that was, quote, i always wondered if stepien knew more about this. was that what you said to him? >> i don't remember. >> okay. >> i don't remember. i have very little recollection of that conversation because it wasn't like mike coming into my office. if you'll recall, it was me walking into kevin o'dowd's

office to say good night to kevin. >> yeah. >> and mike was in there talking to him. i knocked on the door, let myself in and went to say good night to kevin, and mike was sitting there. so i don't have any great recollection of that conversation at all. if mike says i said that, that's his recollection of it. i don't -- i can't say he's wrong, but i can't say he's right. i don't remember. >> heather, what do you remember about all this? >> oh, one thing i do remember is that the governor has said different time frames about when he first learned about this whole issue. he said it was early press reports and it was hard to really pin down which press reports. so it seems they have occasionally moved the target here, but i think what's really notable about this radio interview which was great timing today is that they've drawn a line in the sand. so they've come out with the internal investigation that they commissioned from their attorneys which cleared the current officials and the governor, and that's what they're sticking with. so he doesn't want to answer more questions about this.

he was kind of testy in his responses on the radio about this. and i think, you know, he's made his declaration, and that's it. >> and, you know, one thing that you mentioned before that i think is very crucial here is drewniak is the first person to testify before this legislative committee who's also spoken to the grand jury that the u.s. attorney has investigating this. and that means that this time line, all of this "i don't remember," "i don't recall," everything he said in this marathon seven-hour testimony today has to match up to what he said to the u.s. attorney, or he could expose himself to perjury charges. >> yeah, and heather, no one knows that better than him. he met christie because he was originally working if that office as christie took it over, as i mentioned. so is he bulletproof here? >> i guess we'll have to see. who knows what he said to the grand jury? i thought it was also interesting during the hearing, a lot came up about his work at the u.s. attorney's office and trying to establish that he had a relationship with david wildstein when he was an

anonymous blogger known as wally edge, the democrats tried to hammer that point that they knew each other and potentially he was leaking information to wally edge, which he said he wasn't. >> well, he was involved in authorized and unauthorized leaks as part of his normal job being in the press liaison for that long as well. look, the thing here is all these people in new jersey, they're all like old friends until they're not. we'll keep an eye on that. heather haddon and hunter walker, thank you both. >> thanks so much. coming up next, what jay-z, beyonce, barack obama and you probably have in common. the end of privacy in a world of corporate surveillance. and then we have some developments in the unpredictable war of words between magic johnson and donald sterling and how sterling is putting the damage in damage control. and later, some breaking news out of a federal court striking down gay marriage, a gay marriage ban, i should say, in an unlikely base. as idaho goes, so goes the nation. ep your lifestyle in retirement? i don't want to think about the alternative.

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in the spotlight tonight, a rapper, his wife, her sister and one nation living under surveillance. political debates about surveillance often focus on the government and the nsa. some of the greatest invasions are by corporate surveillance. if you're in public or in a large store everywhere, you're recorded all the time. there are at beast 30 million cameras in the u.s. shooting 4 billion hours of footage every week. according to "popular mechanics." and just today google rolled out its controversial google glass product for public sale.

so anyone can wear a device that records everyone through camouflage eyeglasses. you don't know when they're on. and while we are increasingly visible as targets, this expansion of surveillance is often invisible. but the constant recording and its potential abuse is getting a lot more attention right now. that's because of the leak of this salacious violent video published by the website tmz. it purportedly shows a squabble between one of the country's most prominent families. on the left we're told is jay-z, the rapper, business mogul and influential supporter of president obama, and that's allegedly his wife there, beyonce and his sister, solange. they're in an elevator at a top new york hotel called the standard. after a recent party. now, the woman punching, kicking and being restrained is allegedly beyonce's sister, solange knowles. the video goes on for over three minutes. nbc news has not confirmed its authenticity, and we should note the standard said, quote, we're shocked and disappointed there was a clear breach of our security system and will discipline and prosecute the individuals involved to our fullest capacity.

it set off a firestorm of tabloid coverage and social media discussion this week. speculation about what the fight might have been about and discussions of whether this exchange should have stayed private. now, one knee-jerk response is that celebrities give up their privacy or we all do any time we go anywhere. but that may actually be something else. it may be a political surrender masquerading as pragmatism. another response is that while the public is falling behind in the battle with corporations over who has privacy rights, it's way past time for a renegotiation. joining me now is michael skolnik, editor in chief for globalgrind.com and a knowledgeable hip-hop head. welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> let's start with you know a lot about this industry. you know some of these people. number one, why is this incident and jay-z and beyonce and solange of such interest to so many people in the country? >> jay-z and beyonce are the king and queen of the culture of the generation.

this is as if barack and michelle got in a fight and it was caught on tape. they are such private people, but yet they are such international superstars. and we've never seen any trouble out of the jay-z or beyonce camp. so to see this video, when it first was aired yesterday on tmz, i think it broke the internet, the entire thing just shut down because so many people were shocked that we had seen this part of their lives. >> right. and you're speaking of something that breaks form. it breaks the carefully cultivated images they have built. and yet when you look at people saying what do we do with this, should this be private, and how do we all feel when everyone has a phone? i feel -- and i mentioned the point about surrender because i feel that people have given up. someone with the aclu said we're headed toward a surveillance society in which your every move, your every transaction is duly registered and recorded by some computer. >> this is a family fight, a

family feud between a family. and it's sad that someone would sell this, you know, video to tmz for "x" amount of dollars to expose -- they had to walk out of that elevator to 400 cameras outside the hotel waiting for them to exit. this was the night of the met gala, the biggest night of fashion in new york. the biggest stars in the world were in new york. not only was their privacy invaded in the elevator. they had to walk outside to cameras and actually put on a public face. they can't even go out the back door. there's 400 cameras at the back door. no matter where they go, their privacy is invaded. we're at the point of no return. not just with celebrity but with personal lives that all of our privacy sadly at this point can be made public. >> yeah, i was thinking about this today, and i was thinking of one of the sort of founding essays about the right to privacy which was by samuel warren and louis brandeis. and you know if we're doing a

hip-hop segment, we've got to go old school. >> let's do it. 1962? >> 1890. >> 1890? before we were born. >> quote, gossip is no longer the resource of the idle and of the vicious but has become a trade. man has become more sensitive to publicity so that solitude and privacy have become more essential to the individual, but modern enterprise and invention have through invasions upon his privacy, subjected him to mental pain and distress, far greater that could be inflicted by mere bodily injury. it's 125 years old, and yet the technology and the trade and the commerce here is even more severe today and not just, i would argue, for celebrities but for a lot of us when you think about identity theft and our personal identity and our e-mail and everything that's out there. >> i mean, and also, it's interesting about these two is that jay-z and beyonce are so private. jay says in the record, if it wasn't for these pictures, you wouldn't see me at all. like he actually tries to avoid being in the press. so for them to be in the public spotlight is so unusual. but i think for us as a society, as a nation, as we look at

government and individuals and people selling video and privacy to security companies and e-mails and telephone and people breaching their own personal security, it's done. and we can't go back. so 120 years ago, the prediction of this, you know, of the future, but now with technology that we have at our hands, sadly, you know, this is a reality that we all have to live with. >> i have two counters to that. one is i think to some degree in a commercial sense, a type of privacy will become a luxury. and so that's what some of the celebrities have and then it's invaded. at least at a certain level people say i want to be able to buy some of this back. and the second level is you do have the politics of backlash. senator franken is trying to get control and regulate the way cell phone companies track you because the phone isn't just text and phone anymore. it tracks you everywhere you go. don't you think backlash could have effect here? >> certainly but when a 17-year-old kid with break into target and get 120 million

credit card numbers, you know, a 17-year-old child, you know, can break through a security system, one of the biggest corporations in the world, i'm not sure how much backlash can stop that. i'm not sure how much backlash can stop wikileaks, the nsa. these are systems that are breaking through our security, whether we foe it or we don't know it, it's happening. and i'm not sure, as much as i'm in favor of privacy, as much as i don't like big brother, you know, these things continue to happen for celebrities and for private individuals. >> michael skolnik, globalgrind.com, thank you very much for being here. >> thanks for having me. coming up, donald sterling is not making it any easier for himself. and later, we have a "last word" exclusive. the clerk making same-sex weddings in arkansas a reality will be here.

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class every day fully aware of that danger, compared to their courage, i'd say boko haram is a bunch of little girls. but you know what? you don't deserve that compliment. >> the u.s. confirmed today that a military drone flew its first surveillance mission over nigeria in search of those kidnapped girls. it joins a search group already involved in the region. the owner of the l.a. clippers found a way to make the situation worse.

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sterling offered a semiapology that blamed others and even invoked his granddaughter in a bid for sympathy. >> i'm not a racist. i made a terrible, terrible mistake. and i'm here with you today to apologize. i don't know why the girl had had me say those things. >> you're saying you were set up? >> well, yes, i was baited. i mean, that's not the way i talk. >> sterling did not stop there either. he couldn't help but go negative on magic johnson, a baffling choice if this were a strategic apology, but perhaps an understandable choice if he was just speaking his mind again. >> what has he done? can you tell me? big magic johnson. what has he done? >> well, he's a businessperson. >> he's got aids. did he do any business? i'd like -- did he help anybody in south l.a.? >> i think he has hiv. he doesn't actually have full-blown aids. >> what kind of guy goes to every city, has sex with every girl, then he catches hiv?

is that someone we want to respect and tell our kids about? i think he should be ashamed of himself. i think he should go into the background. but what does he do for the black people? >> tonight, magic johnson offered his response. >> it's sad. when i saw that interview, it's sad. it really is. i'm going to pray for this young man. it's a shame that donald used this platform with you to, instead of coming out apologizing to the world, which would have been great, and said you know what? i'm sorry i made some mistakes. and just left it there. magic johnson shouldn't have been included in your conversation because i have nothing to do with this. but since you put me in it again and then you want to try to disrespect me, of the work that i've done in the minority community, that really makes me upset. and then my competitive spirit comes out because i've done all this great work.

>> joining me is mark thompson, host of "make it plain" on sirius xm radio. welcome. your thoughts here. >> you think he has made it worse for himself. and as one of the black people, although i'm not one he provides food and clothes for, it is really offensive. and i think he has sealed his fate even further, ari. there is no way that he can remain an owner of a team in the nba. he did absolutely nothing to help himself. it's interesting, too, his attack on magic johnson. magic johnson indicated earlier that sterling called him, didn't apologize and actually invited him to make an appearance i guess on his apology tour with barbara walters. and apparently magic wasn't interested in doing that. so that may have something to do with the personal backlash against magic johnson. but it was what he said about magic johnson that got him in trouble in the first place. i'm not sure where this man's faculties are because to bring magic back into it and then

attack him even more personally, i don't think that helps his case at all. >> yeah. and that's why this was, for people who are used to these kind of apology tours, it was baffling because it was so unhelpful to him. espn's jason whitlock had an interesting piece speaking about some of the racial context in history but also praising it. and he said, quote, the disgraced nba owner made no real attempt to conceal his feelings of superiority in his trial by combat, sterling has skewed the help of counsel, both legal and public relations and entered the ring alone. he left on a stretcher, unaware of the fatal self-inflicted wounds. >> well, i would agree. and the other really blessing that has come out of this is that his behavior has awakened sleeping giants, literally and figuratively in terms of nba athletes standing up, some even it was "usa today" ran a story, we reported on the air earlier

tonight about how lebron and other players have said they are not going to play next year as long as he's an owner. we've not seen athletes take that kind of a stand since the historic cleveland summit when bill russell and kareem abdul-jabbar and jim brown and a host of other athletes stood up in defense of muhammad ali. >> and you mentioned that jim rome from the nba was talking to roger mason about that with lebron. let's take a listen. >> lebron, you think he would not play if sterling were still in there when the season started? >> i was just in the locker room three, four days ago. lebron and i talked about it. he ain't playing if sterling is still an owner. >> this goes to the idea that this thing is sticking. >> yes. >> this is not one of those times where you have a huge firestorm and you have announcements and you have the ban, and then boy, it takes years to really figure it out because it seems that people are willing to use their leverage. >> they certainly are. again, this is a great historical precedent because

what he also spoke to is the mentality and the culture that exists in professional sports in this country where you have owners and you have players. and he spoke about these being his players and how he provides for them. and even though the majority of these players are people of color and are african-americans, he doesn't want african-american fans or patrons to come to his games. so it really causes us, once again, to reexamine that relationship and try to do everything we can to see to it that that relationship changes, that players are treated with the same respect, that fans are treated with the same respect, and this is not just a more modern-day exploitation of african-americans for the entertainment of a few. >> yeah. and that's where this mark -- i think that's such an point and this goes to bigger potential change. the exchange in the piece about plantation mentality, you couldn't watch that and think about college sports and some of the work we have left to do, i

think. mark thompson, thank you for joining me. appreciate it. coming up, we have a "last word" exclusive. as people get lined up to get married in arkansas, the clerk who is making these weddings will join us live. how did we do it last time? i don't know... i forget. feeding your lawn need not be so difficult neighbors. get a load of this bad boy. whoa. this snap spreader system from scotts is snap-crackin' simple -- just snap, lock, and go. [ scott ] feed your lawn. feed it! avo: with expedia you always get the lowest price

book any flight or hotel and if you find it for less we'll match it and give you fifty dollars back that's the expedia guarantee the ruling which cannot be appealed and does not apply outside of europe was a surprise to many and has big consequences for the future of online privacy. google called the ruling disappointing and said it would need to analyze the decision. >> valerie champagne, very good job. a "last word" tradition. >> thank you. >> did you enjoy your internship? >> it has been fantastic. dream come true. >> is there anything you think you'll remember or that you learned here? >> so much. just i really need to be able to multitask. and just everyone here really, really loves their job and just kind of enjoy my job, love doing it, come into work happy. that's kind of my takeaways.

>> good. well, i think you did lawrence proud here. >> oh, yeah. >> carrying on the tradition, valerie, and thank you for interning with us. >> thanks so much. i loved it. >> awesome. and we will be back after this.

welcome back. there is breaking news on the marriage equality front. tonight a federal judge in idaho struck down the state's ban on same-sex marriage. the court's injunction which halts the ban will begin friday, but the state's republican governor filed for an immediate stay. so that's also pending we can report tonight. in virginia today, amid hundreds of protesters, a federal appeals court for several states heard new arguments concerning that state's same-sex marriage ban. and a decision in that case could actually affect marriage equality in north carolina, south carolina and west virginia. and in another conservative-leaning state, arkansas, a circuit court judge struck down the state's same-sex marriage ban on friday. that is not sitting well with the state's former governor, mike huckabee, who called for the impeachment of that judge. while judges may be impeached on conduct, it's an issue, in fact, that arkansas knows all too

well. arkansas governor orval faubus called for the impeachment of the very judge who ordered the integration of little rock central high school in the fall of 1957. joining me for an exclusive interview, pulaski county clerk larry crane who began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples yesterday in little rock, arkansas. welcome. >> i'm glad to be here with you. >> all right. larry, tell me how it was welcoming some of those couples yesterday. set the scene. what happened? >> by 7:00 in the morning, we had probably 200 or more people standing on the courthouse steps. and at 7:00, i went out and welcomed them. i told them that we wanted them to feel welcome and that we wanted them to be comfortable. and that it was going to be crowded back where our marriage licenses are issued. then we led them back, and it all started. and it was crowded.

and it was frustrating because we were fumbling through a brand-new computer system that didn't want to work for a while. >> mm-hmm. >> and it was absolutely the most joyful-filled day that i have ever seen. >> wow. you mentioned joy. we have some footage here of a woman who got married at your courthouse. let's take a look at that. >> i figured we'd be the last. sure enough i'd be standing here talking to you with my family fixing to do one of the greatest things in the world and be with my wife. >> tell us if you agree, we actually see what it looks like when these bans get struck down and when people can do this, and it seems to me, at least, watching from the outside here, very different from a lot of the dire warnings we were hearing from people who explained why we needed these bans in the first place.

>> it was odd that there were only two protesters at our courthouse, which is very different from anything that i think anyone expected. and there were only happy people involved. >> and you know, as i mentioned in the top of the news item here that we have the breaking news out of idaho, which is a very conservative state. it's near where i grew up. a lot of parts of idaho we think of as pretty darn as conservative as you can get. i want to put up a map of which states do allow same-sex marriage. no southern states allowing it. all of them have certain types of bans as we're discussing. and yet, do you think, larry, the politics are shifting rather quickly? >> i think that it's moving unbelievably rapidly. i think that the issue has great momentum and that it really is picking up speed. i don't think that the issue will stand very long at all before it's nationwide.

>> and i know you've worked for bill clinton, mark prior. do you think a lot of these politicians just have to follow the winds there? >> you know, bill clinton came out a good while ago in favor of gay marriage, and i believe that hillary has, too. >> mm-hmm. >> mark prior has been -- has been in favor of equal rights for all people for a long, long time. and those are just the people in arkansas. that's what you get when you come here. >> mm-hmm. >> well, i want to congratulate you on the work you're doing and say larry crane, thanks for joining us. you got tonight's "last word." >> thank you. >> thanks. next. lame bram. let's play "hardball." >> good evening pi'm chris math washington.

let me start tonight with this stepped up attack on hillary clinton. karl rove who was known as bush's brain is talking about hillary's brain, for real. >> she's in the hospital for 30 days and when she eemerges she is wearing glasses only for people with traumatic brain injury. we need to know what's up with that. this is a top republican campaign strategist, karl rove,