high heavens but don't let speakers not speak because a blogger complains. let 1,000 flowers bloom. why i love the '60s and still do. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. it is done. secretary of veterans fairs eric shinseki went before a veterans group and took responsibility for the scandal that has engulfed his department, in the wake of a report saying that administrators covered up excessive wait time for veterans to get medical appointments. >> that breach of integrity is indefensible and unacceptable. given the facts i now know i apologize as senior leader of the department of veterans affairs. >> shinseki wenten to announce reforms and efforts to right past wrongs but he wouldn't be

the senior leader much longer. after the speech he went to the white house for a meeting with president obama, who went before the cam troeras to announce tha shinseki was out. >> a few minutes ago secretary shinseki offered me is own resignation with considerable regret, i accepted. he does not want to be a dr distraction, he wants to fix the problem and make sure our vets get the care they need, that was rick's judgment on behalf of his fellow veterans. >> 150 februamembers of congres called for his resignation prosecution both parties and former va official ms. duckworth who called on her former boss to step down. interesting wrinkle, out of 14 senate republicans who called for the resignation, all but one voted to filibuster a $it 1 billion that would have expendanted medicaid, education and al and other benefits for

ve veterans and open or expand more than two dozen medical centers across the country. the problems at the va go far beyond eric shinseki, as far back as 2004, according to this inspe inspector gin reneral report th were keeping informal wait lists, in 2004. that practice appears tied to the annual performance reviews to determine raise and bonuses which may have become perverse incentives to manipulate the data. people were incentivized to cheat. veterans returning after 13 years of war in afghanistan but due to expanded coverage of ptsd and agent orange and increased health care needs of aging population of vietnam veterans.

put it together and you're facing a situation where >> tom: whithere is not enough capacity to keep up with demand for care. all of the conditions predated eric shinseki who became va secretary in 2009. what he can fairly be criticized for is a crucial decision during his tenure. crucial decision was target for wait times the wait system cut from 30 days that directive would seem to be all well intentioned, but now appears to have pushed an already stressed system past the breaking point and put existing incentives to game the system. the problems were bigger than the man at the top and there before he took over. the question is simply this, now what? joining me from vermont is senator sanders, chairman of the senate committee on veterans affairs. your reaction to the news today? >> well, on a personal level i

was saddened. in my view, chris, eric shinseki is a true american hero and not just because of the purple hearts he received in vietnam but because of the courage that he showed as army chief of staff in telling the truth about what was going to happen in iraq, standing up to his boss at that time, donald rumsfeld. and also, as secretary of the va, this guy has done a lot of good things. when he came into office, chris, the claims process, if you can believe it in 2009, was done with paper. paper, for the veterans administration, a million claims a year, some of these claims having boxes and boxes of paper. and he had to transform that into an electronic system,wait significantly. cut homelessly, a disgrace in our country, for veterans by

24%. had to bring into the system 2 million new veterans from iraq and afghanistan, taking care of the older veterans from vietnam, he did a lot of good. clearly, he was far from perfect but i'm saddened. >> do you see him as a fall guy? a scapegoat for a systemic issue or do you think he screwed up, this was essentially a fair holding to account? >> i think that there were people who were gaming the system in a terrible, terrible way. i mean, lying outright by saying yes, we are accommodating veterans in a 14-day period when in fact that obviously was not the case. and i think throughout the chain of command, it did not get up to him. you can blame him, the guy on top has to take the hit for these things but there are a lot of people underneath him i think were not doing what they should have been doing. >> there was an employee of the va who sent an e-mail to gawker

today, they posted, had a lot of interesting tidbits, a ground eye view of this. one thing they said, we need more people, period. people are quitting and retiring and we are not backfilling. i heard that in my own reporting, if you look at the budget target figure it's not necessarily that the money isn't there so much as there aren't enough people. >> well, that ties into money. look, at the end of the day, if we are serious about providing quality health care to our veterans, and by the way, in the midst of all of this when we have to say loudly and clearly and the veterans organizations say this, independent surveys say this, that when people get into the system the quality is, in fact, very good. >> yep. >> if do you that, and bring people in in a timely way and you're right shinseki lowered the time in which he wanted people into the system. you know what? my strong belief is there are

facilities all over this country that don't have the doctors or nurses to accommodate a huge influx of veterans who want va health care. we need more doctors, we need more nurses. >> is congress now going to move on? here's my fear for this and this what is i see,coming. a scandal became a political sandal, which he resign north? eric shinseki has resigned. republicans see this as a useful election year issue, their right to run on but what is going to get fixed? you can read an oig report saying there is a problem with the waiting time yir in 2005. what is the game plan here? >> the game plan for a start is to make sure that we have honesty in the system, that hospital administrators stand up loudly and say with our staff right now we can't get people in 14 days, we can't in a month. we need more staff.

>> right. >> short term, we have to allow veterans who are on long waiting lines to use private health care, to use community health centers, federally qualified, department of defense bases, longer term, what the veterans administration has got to do is work with other agencies of government to get a whole lot of medical school students into the v.a. by doing debt forgiveness, among other things. >> senator sanders of vermont. always a pleasure. thank you. joining me now is army veteran and member of the truman project defense council, chrkrin rouse. you served in the army, three tours in afghanistan. >> correct. >> what is your view, working with veterans from the most recent wars of their experience at the v.a. and what level it's performing at? >> first off, thank you for

having me, chris. i appreciate the opportunity to talk with you tonight. you make some great points, senator sanders makes some great points. i agree the quality of care we're seeing, especially locally in new york city, if veterans can access that care and if they are choosing to access that care, there is actually some excellent care to be had. the manhattan v.a. has one of the best prosthetic care programs in the country. and so, i hear a lot of veterans being happy with their care but again, access is the issue. so, america has around 21 million veterans but fewer than 6 million of those veterans are actively getting appointments in the v.a. system. >> and my understanding is that is partly choice, right? and partly there is a sort of self-selection? a lot of people who don't have service connected disabilities, living in areas and making

enough money that they are in the private health care market like nonveterans? >> absolutely. it's an optional benefit, available to veterans with honorable discharges for the most part, keep that in mind as well. for veterans discharged under other than honorable conditions, related to ptsd behavioral problems or being gay for example in past years, those folks do not have access -- >> is that the case after the change in policy? >> unless those members with what we call bad papers have chosen to seek out changes. >> interesting. >> then they're still not accessing those benefits. so, there may be that issue or somebody may have private health care through their employer or they may be military retiree and on tricare -- >> different system? >> correct. or they're just choosing not to

access it at all. some vietnam veterans i know in new york city, they had so many years of disillusionment with the v.a. system after they returned home that they've sought care through other channels. and most of them, or at least the ones i've spoken to, they don't want to go back to the v.a. >> from my reporting, my sense is people on wait time, the most frustration, aren't actually returning veterans necessarily, it's been much more the older cohort of vietnam veterans experiencing the delays? >> that's the aging population of veterans with particularly agent orange, everybody needs to be aware the increased eligibility for agent orange that -- >> expanded -- >> that shinseki made, that was an incredibly important thing to do, that came very late in the game for a lot of those veterans who have been suffering for a very long time.

they've had increased eligibility and also that's just the cohort of aging but keep in mind, as iraq and afghanistan veterans are home and they spend time sitting on issues that may come up later like with depleted uranium, burn pit inhalation -- >> a lot expanding down the road as well. >> as we age, i'm one of those veterans who has not -- selected not to seek health care through the vfrnl.a. system although i' enrolled. i suspect i will be seeking care later on if it's something that i can -- >> all the more reason things need to be fixed now. army veteran kristen rouse. thank you. >> thank you. this happened yesterday. >> separation of church and state? i'm telling you right here what the founding fathers said! does it sound like separating god almighty from the united

states of america? >> and that appearance at the republican leadership conference in new orleans doesn't even begin to compare to the made for tv movie playing out in the mississippi republican senate primary right now. we'll have that story next. oyabe way to get your fiber. oyabe try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious, and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips. and i get a lot in return with ink plus from chase i make a lot of purchases for my business. like 60,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can.

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a big republican ideas conference held in the bayou and one of the headliners was this guy. >> you got two problems, gop, that you can't solve. one of them is a sin problem. g gop -- you can't be right for america if you're wrong with god. >> phil robertson famous for "duck dynasty" for his lucrative family business making duck calls, epic beard and his presence seemed odd even to him at this leadership council. >> i guess the gop may be more desperate than i thought to call somebody like me. >> that microphone hum adds a nice note in that. that is by far not even clos to the most bonkers thing emanating

out of conservative politic notice south, that goes to mississippi where the tea party has its last and best chances in this cycle to knock out an republican inchem bent. looked like chris mcdaniel could cruise to victory and unseat todd cochran, whose voting record not nearly radical enough for certain membership conservatives and the weirdest political scandal i can remember happened. >> the sinister turn in the political drama has and republican battle for u.s. senate. reported backer of chris mcdaniel is under arrest, the charge breaking into the assisted living residence of the wife of u.s. senator cochran all to take pictures. >> yes, you heard that right. a 28-year-old mcdaniel supporter broke into nursing home where cochran's wife resided for the past 13 years, bedridden and ailing with dementia, to take a picture for an online hit piece

on cochran. that's creepy but that's not all. three other individuals arrested in what is looking like a watergate-style con conspiracy to break into a nursing hiem and all four of the alleged conspirators are mcdaniel supporters, one on the board of directors of the mississippi tea party. prosecutors say they were others who knew about the video and there could be more arrests on the way. the question is whether it leads back to chris mcdaniel. joining me is slate political reporter who just left the state of mississippi covering this on the ground, dave, first of all, what were they doing? were these tea party activists breaking into the home and others conspireing to break into the home of a woman suffering from dementia? >> i met with the suspect's wife, believing her husband trying to make a name for himself as an activist and got

into his head this would do it for him, misled by some people and i should use the word allegedly as much as possible, people in the tea party movement acting independently thinking this would be great for mcdaniel. trying to emphasize from the rumor mill the idea that cochran is not being faithful to his wife. the fact that i just mentioned that on tv means it didn't come remotely backfire-zblsh right. >> but this was a rum that they existed in some tea party circles, they did it in the worst possible way, and you get angry when you try to get bring it up. i was a tea party conference where reporters tried to ask any question to shed some light on what happened and they blew up, pointed and figuretively blew up and reporters. >> the polls is soft and hard to divine and two polls that point in opposite directions but there

is a sense that mcdaniel had a really good shot to unseat cochran before this happened. do you think this is changing it? you write in your piece this mcdaniel's attitude toward press, demeanor shifted since four supporters got arrested, possibly conspireing to engineer a break-into a nursing home. >> it did. he was open to the press for a long time, emphasizing he could talk to anyone and cochran couldn't. and he's slowly, after about a week of turmoil, figured out a way to dodge questions about the story. but some of the tea party yeier the ground said they thought this would happen, they knew this was the best chance for the movement to take out an incumbent who doesn't vote on the left very often. if you look at thad cochran's record, he occasionally -- he doesn't choose to filibuster something but votes against it when it counts. they thought he was beatable and expected the establishment to

vote what one said an october surprise, more late may surprise in this case. but they think it might have happened a bit too early. i didn't -- from what i saw from rallies for both candidates, mcdaniel supporters, like a lot of tea party supporters tell you chapter and verse why they're supporting the ghief cochran guys just vote for the guy because they've known him forever and brought money back to the state and cases where that was not enough to save somebody. this might have moved the needle but cochran's campaign won't claim they've won already. it's close. >> even with the bizarre and even with the connections there are, these are all allegations, there are connections back to the campaign, even if there is no evidence the campaign knew, there are connections back to it. my sense is this is still neck and neck. of complete darkness.

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gop doing grandstanding on the v.a. issue and yesterday and had a press conference, designed to get the best press possible. this is what i looked like. you notice something weird, like that guy next to house majority leader kantor? he's a veteran and so much more than that, new york representative michael grimm, maimous for this. >> and famous for this. >> we're going to fight tooth and nail until i'm fully exonerated, so let me be

perfectly clear, i will not abandon my post or the wonderful people who entrusted me to represent them. >> congressman, very simply, are you a crook? >> no. >> yesterday that same staten island congressman, recent subject to 20-count federal indictment, photo bombed the press conference, worked up to the podium, disgruntled staffers said he was not voted and quote, we couldn't stop him. not the look the gop was going for, no one we could tell was broken in half like a boy. try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. [ ding dong ] [ male announcer ] you can get great discounts on 1-800-flowers.com... oh... [ male announcer ] roadside assistance from allstate, and avis, budget and budget truck.

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ask your dermatologist about humira, today. clearer skin is possible. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ chris christie's self-made myth of fiscal rectitude continues to crumble around him with a potentially embarrassing headline from the new jersey press, after blocking raising, guess who got a big new jersey raise?

why, chris christie's own staff, of course. the latest blow to his fabled frugality, comes from the bergen county record, breaking the news of the raises and detailing them alongside the purportedly necessary cuts made in other areas, these are big, average of 23%, and in all fairness they are mostly for communications staff and let's be honest here, those folks have surely been working their tails off ever since the infamous ft. lee e-mail. partly due to that scandal christie has lost crossover appeal with democrats but his republican position has been tough-talking no nonsense fiscal conservative. form you know, the problem with this, worst kind of headline for an

iowa caucus attack ad. just like the perfect, if you're sitting there thinking about this guy actually being in 2016, but in terms of the new jersey republican party, in terms of the way the chris christie sold himself as the guy who will watch dollars and cents, this is the worst. >> i was talking about this, keeping the line from the great ga gatsby who tom and daisy leave this mess behind them, the careless people, leave other people to clean up behind them. this is two weeks after a peterson gig speaking about fiscal responsibility and shared a stage with bill clinton, right? keeps claiming the state is broke, delayed $1.5 billion pension payment he was supposed to make under his very own plan he signed into law, coming at an awkward time, the explanation was i have staffers who have to take up slack and work because we've left some people and the

people that have left are the people who had to leave because of bridgegate. >> the best part of this is the record said these should be publicly accessible figures, and they say no, they're not publicly accessible, you can't see them. had to lawyer up and threaten to sue before they got them. >> that's the story investigating this from the get-go. things that related to the bridge story that we've been trying to get ahold of that are apparently work product but claimed since january they are not open. >> sandy funds issues, we've been knocking on their day door, nonprofits -- i should say the statement is changes in salary in the main reflect changes in changes in job responsibilities for these staff members. >> those are mostly related to losses that have occurred because people have left.

>> right. you have this pension issue brewing. i think this story intsing. series of reports about allegations of essential pay to play, and regulations of who can get contracts and -- this blew up in massachusetts when there was a donation and a firm got pension fund money, but pensions seem to be at the center of the chris christie story and it seems to be only a matter of time before people start poking around in that. >> christie signed this more strict pay to play law and for people that don't know what that is, if you gv a donation to a political entity or party in the state you're not supposed do business with the state after that. christie signed this tough law and put that into effect and then it seems like in this particular instance that the reporting states there someone who gave a donation to the rga

to the republican governors association who indicated on some forms that hes with a financial adviser and had a relationship with the company and other forms he's not. >> and then there is the state gop party and then the fact that he ran essentially back in the day, one of the things he ran on was the fact that corzine was giving out contracts to his wall street buddies. >> corzine will end up having been the governor who made the biggest-ever payment into the public pension system. >> that is so great. >> after christie hammered him in that election. >> is that true? >> yes, it is. >> the profligate, liberal corzine made christie this nation a aal figure, the thing christie was beating him up on, christie will fail the benchmark set by jon corzine? >> yes. and one that christie condemned

repeatedly throughout that campaign. it's like a piece of delicious sweet jersey irony. >> brian murphy, thanks so much. up next a brand new and disturbing look into the influence of the big food lobby in america. >> over 90% of all americans will be overweight or obese in two decades. >> we're toast, as a country. >> laurie david joins me to talk about "fed up," next. (man) when i can't go, it's like bricks piling up. i wish i could find some relief. (announcer) ask your doctor about linzess-- a once-daily capsule for adults with ibs with constipation or chronic idiopathic constipation. linzess is thought to help calm pain-sensing nerves and accelerate bowel movements. it helps you proactively manage your symptoms. do not give linzess to children under 6, and it should not be given to children 6 to 17.

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in america, 80% of them have added sugar. >> your brain lights up with sugar like it does with cocaine or heroin. you'll become an addict. >> you end up with one of the great public health epidemics. >> "fed up" from laurie david tells the story of big food and how it manipulates the political system to benefit its bottom line, particularly at the cost of kids. and seems like the movie couldn't have been at a better time considering we just got a lesson in how that relationship between politics and big food works yesterday when the house of representatives, backed by some of the big food players voted to allow some schools to testimony testimony -- temporarily opt out of nutritional standards that

first lady michelle obama has been fighting so hard for. >> i think schools are supposed to set an example for what a healthy diet is and you would think that anyone who was suggesting that kids eat healthier in schools would be applauded but that's not how the economic system works and there are many, many steakeholders in that who are furious about what is going on. >> joining me now, executive producer of laurie david. how did this movie come about? >> hi, chris. >> how are you? >> it was katie couric's idea and she'd been covering the stories of diet and exercise for her entire career and she really wanted to dig deep to find out what the heck is going on and why the is the problem getting worse and worse? she contacted the director and they contacted me and now we have "fed up" in 100 screens across the country, if you eat food, go see it, if you have kids bring them to see it.

>> so, there's a lot of -- we've heard a lot about the increase in obesity rates, crazy statistic from the film, a projection if current rates pertain, one-third of all americans will have diabetes by 2050? that's a wakeup call, isn't it? it's outrageous and really, it's about the food we're eating and the drinks we're drinking. i hope "fed up" can really get an honest conversation going in this country about it. >> so, one of the people featured is dr. robert lustig, i've been a fan, he had this youtube lecture on sugar that went kind of viral. i remember watching that. here is a clip from him talking about sugar and particularly sugar as a toxin. take a listen. >> between 1977 and 2000, americans have doubled their daily intake of sugar. >> sugar is poison. it is a chronic, not acute,

chronic, dose-dependent -- depends how much you eat because there is a safe threshold -- liver toxin. the metabolic diseases that are associated with obesity, the diabetes, the heart disease, the lipid problems, the strokes, the cancer, those diseases are being driven by sugar. >> first of all, as someone who works in television, the motion animates graphics were awesome. kudos to whoever did that. this seems the key point, not just we're eating more food. lustig zeros in on the role that sugar plays. explain that crucial role of sugar. >> well, here's the thing. first of all, it's not about what you're putting in your coffee or your tea. it's about the fact that we should be having maximum maybe as adults, six to eight teaspoons a day but most people are consuming 2 it teaspoons and up. 22. and at a certain level it's

addictive and it's toxic and poison. and you know, you know when you're eating donuts or cupcakes that you're having, i'm eating something sweet, probably a lot of sugar but what you don't know when you're in the super makt and buying salad dressing or spaghetti sauce or healthy gr granola bars or yogurt with all this fruit added that is, with as much sugar in a yogurt as soda, you don't realize how much sugar you're consuming. and this this is the problem for the american consumer. >> so what is the origin story of this? why is it the case that our sugar dosage has gone up so exponentially? >> one of the shocking things in "fed up," i was sproesed by the, 30 years ago the american government and the food industry knew that the american diet was going off the rails and eating too much sugar. 30 years ago. so, what did they decide to do? they decided to take the fat out

of everything and deleted this whole new market of low-fat and nonfat, to this day those productses are lining the supermarket shelves. when they took the fat out the food tasted awful. so, what did they do? they poured in the sugar. >> fascinating. >> dr. lustig talks brilliantly about this in "fed up,". >> this sounds like a screw up you can lay at the feet of big government as much as industry? if it's basically usda recommendations that screwed this up, that basically got it wrong about what was going wrong with our diet and innocenti nce the addition of sugar -- sounds like the corporate industry -- >> there is a lot of people to blame, the problem is we have to solve this and now talking about the first generation of children who are going to lead a shorter life span than their parents. okay? this is diet related. we're going to bury ourselves in

health care costs because of this, so we have to do something about it and it's urgent and we have to do something about it now. let's just start by going see the movie so we can all have a conversation about this. really. we can all start talking about it, how do we get to the solution? >> in terms of doing something about it, interesting lesson about how hard it is to do something about it yesterday. here you have, what seems to be the most noncontroversial thing in the world, nutritional standards seven years in the making, don't shove french fries and chicken fingers down the throats of kids across america. give them a balanced meal and then -- they voted that down. they quasi-repealed it yesterday in congress. >> the tag line is congress says pizza and french fries are vegetables. we should spend this energy to make school lunches better. i would like to challenge congress members to eat school

lunch for a week. >> i've been to the house cafeteria it's not that much better than school lunch, have to be honest. >> i guarantee you, chris, it's a hell of a lot better. we had kids in the film who had flip cameras and they went into their schools and shot this footage. it's deplorable what we're feeding kids in it count s is i. and is said in the movie, some schools are like 7-elevens with books. we're talking about the future of this country. >> the movie is "fed up," it is really well done, in theaters now and laurie david produced it. thank you so much. >> thank you. this week, i had a pretty awesome opportunity. i got to sit down with neil degrasse tyson. >> i want to go ice fishing on europa. see if anything swims up to the camera lens and licks it. >> you'll find out what europa

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i'm a messy person. i don't like cleaning. i love my son, but he never cleans up. always leaves a trail of crumbs behind. you're going to have a problem with getting a wife. uh, yeah, i guess. [ laughs ] this is ridiculous. christopher glenn! [ doorbell rings ] what is that? swiffer sweep & trap. i think i can use this. it picks up everything. i like this. that's a lot of dirt. it's that easy! good job chris! i think a woman will probably come your way. [ both laugh ] the next time you rent a dvd, don't bother rewinding it. the way i see it, it's the next guy's problem. oh, larry. she thinks i'm crazy. mm-hmm. but would a crazy person save 15% on car insurance in just 15 minutes? [ chuckles ] [ male announcer ] 15 minutes for a quote is crazy. with esurance, 7½ minutes could save you on car insurance. welcome to the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call.

welcome to the modern world. but with less energy, moodiness, and a low sex drive, i had to do something. i saw my doctor. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. we talked about axiron the only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to normal in about two weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant, and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer, worsening prostate symptoms, decreased sperm count, ankle, feet or body swelling, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing while sleeping and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about axiron.

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after we were talking i had a chance to ask him what has him most excited right now in the world of science? what are you most excited about us learning in the next 20, 25 years? >> i have a short list. things of profound scientific ignorance i would love to see solved before i die. some mysterious pressure in the vacuum of space is forcing the universe to accelerate in its expansion against the wishes of gravity. i want -- we call it dark energy. i want to know what that is. we've measured it, we don't know what it, we don't know what's causing it. >> we had the theory, big bang, and goes out and expectations based on that framework that as you would imagine a normal physics would get slower and slower as it goes on but in fact

when we were able to do the observational measurements it's the opposite, it's accelerating and we do not know what's causing that. >> right. i said this pressure forcing the acceleration of the universe is against the wishes of the collective gravity of all the stars and galaxies in the universe. we don't know what's causing that. also, fi5/6, 86% of all of the gravity we measure in the universe has a source about which we know nothing. we call that dark matter. it's not even dark holes. we got the black hole tally and dark clouds tally and all of that, it's something else. we don't know what that is. we don't know what was around the big bang, before the universe, that would be kind of cool to somehow get through that moment and come out on the other side and see what is going on there. negative time, if you will. also, i'd like to know how we went from organic molecules

self-replicating life. a transition we're challenged to accomplish in a laboratory but earth had no trouble accomplishing this. earth did it, early and did it well. all right? and -- >> nailed it. >> nailed it. nailed it. also, i would like to know if -- if we're alone in the universe. did i say five? those arify top five. >> the loan in talone in the un >> maybe microbes in mars, our backyard, search their first. mars, jupiter's moon europa. well outside of the goldilocks zone where water would be stable in a liquid state, not too close to the sun or it eevaporates, nt too far away it freezes. life as we know it needs liquid water, it's oud sitside zone,

jupiter is pumping energy into it, and pumping energy, melting ice and ocean of liquid water, liquid billions of years. i want to go ice fishing on europa. see if anything swims up to the camera lens and lix cks it. >> you talk about life in other places and intelligent life -- >> i mentioned just life -- >> rieshths rigght, right. >> the audacity of us to define intelligence, my great fear is that we've in fact been visited by intelligent aliens but they chose not to make contact. on the conclusion that there is no sign of intelligent life on earth. how's that for measures of in l intelligen intelligence? >> one of the variables, i forget the name of the equation -- >> drake equation probably. >> right. >> just a way to organize how to --

>> how to think about -- >> the likelihood of life as we know it somewhere in the universe. >> there is a bunch of stuff in there that is essentially things we know about the physical nature of the universe in terms of how many planets there are and how many could conceivably, we think, sustain life. then you get to this really interesting variable of the time scales that intelligent life would be around such that in the crazily long time scale of the universe you get overlap enough, right? that is this variable that comes back to the question how long do civilizations last? >> just imagine, here is a planet, it gets born and the birth of its star system and has fertile ingredients for life, organic molecules, which by the way are common in the universe. the organics are not the challenge, turning the molecules in self-replicating life that's the prize there. you have a planet and it achives

conscienceness and there is a time, where it has intelligent life. put that planet side. now we have another planet, let's say it matches that similar trajectory in the evolution of intelligent life. another gap of time, in its time line. you have all of the planets, fine. but now, when were these planets born? were they born at the same time? no. they're born at all different times. so, if you line them all up on a time line, planet from nebulon five might have had its intelligent species millions of years before ours and they went extinct. here we are sending signals passing through the dark of night because they're not

happening at the same time. and then you imagine a civilization that went well beyond us in intelligence who are we as the measure of anything intelligent that where they're so intelligent that they found a way to communicate that we haven't even invented yet. they could be saying hey we're over here, look here, could be some technological thing to them is just obvious. >> the way we think radio waves -- >> radio waves 200 years ago, wa what is that? what's a telescope -- whts a radio? you couldn't communicate even though we were intelligent because we didn't have the technology to engage us. you need more than intelligence, you need means to actually, on purpose, send signals out in the universe. we were sending signals out before we were doing it on purpose. >> right. >> our early tv shows, like "i love lucy" and that sort of

thing or radio, "howdy doody" these are our cultural emissa emissaries. these are the first things aliens will decode about our civilization because in the radio bubble that is the volume around our solar system that contains our radio chatter, be it accidental or on purpose, -- >> that's the first stuff that we emitted. >> they will learn how men and women treat each other by watching "the honeymooners." >> to the moon! >> and people used to laugh at that, that gesture with the fist. that was funny stuff in 19507. 1957. i suppose. >> there is a thought, the honeymooners our intro duductoro

the universe. that is all in for this evening. "inside the mind of edward snowden" starts now. good night. over the course of the last year, edward snowden from being anonymous to being the most wanted man on earth. brian williams with the first-ever u.s. tv interview with, made huge headline this is week. tonight here, brian williams' landmark interview with edward snowden from moscow. tonight, edward snowden's first interview on american television. >> former nsa director has said you have done significant and irreversible damage to the nation. >> the man who stole nsa secrets talks about what drove him to do it. >> sometimes to do the right thing you have to break a rule. >> and how he ended up in exile in russia. >> people are going to find it hard to believe that president putin hasn't taken a run at you or what you know. tonight, the man who insists he is a ne