Skip to main content

tv   Politics Nation  MSNBC  November 25, 2014 3:00pm-4:01pm PST

3:00 pm
appreciate your time. of course we're waiting to hear from president obama. he should speak momentarily. scheduled to speak momentarily here in chicago. that's "the ed show." "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. and thanks to you for tuning in. i'm live tonight in st. louis, and we begin with breaking news in ferguson, and a city bracing for nightfall. after the chaos and destruction in the streets last night, governor jay nixon today announcing hundreds of additional national guardsmen will be deployed tonight. >> altogether, there will be more than 2,200 national guardsmen in the region. lives and property must be protected. this community deserves to have peace. >> and it comes after a night of violent rioting.
3:01 pm
buildings and cars set on fire. businesses looted. over 100 gun shots fired. 82 people were arrested in the area. and as i said at a press conference with the family today, those wro were violent are not on michael brown's side. but many in ferguson, and around the country are feeling profoundly disappointed in the process that got us here. we are awaiting remarks that we will hear from the president. joining me now, lisa bloom, attorney and legal analyst of and msnbc's tremayne lee. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> lisa, one day after the announcement from mcculloch, there's still so much unhappiness about the grand jury's decision. how far did the prosecutor
3:02 pm
depart from grand jury standards? >> well, reverend al, i spent most of the night reading the transcripts and i was so disappointed. i started with darren wilson's testimony, to see whether any tough questions were asked of him. and in fact, they weren't. he was allowed to just tell his story, the story he was allowed to come up with, with his attorneys, after he was able to review all of the other evidence, without any tough questions being asked of him. for example, he says that mike brown punched him squarely in the face, full force, he said, twice. and yet his physical -- the photos of his face at the hospital that day don't reflect any such thing. they reflect a tiny bit of pinkness or redness if you squint your eyes and hold the photo the right way. he wasn't asked any difficult questions about that. he was allowed to say that that community where mike brown lives is not well liked. boy, does that cry out for a follow-up question. are you saying, you dislike the very people you are sworn to protect and serve?
3:03 pm
what the heck does that mean? that's fertile grounds for cross-examination -- >> right at that point where he said the community where michael brown lives and was is not well liked. he also said it was an area of a lot of gang activity and other things. does that not set -- does it not in many ways reflect that he has a reconceived notion about that area -- >> absolutely. >> -- which could lead to his state of mind? >> absolutely. and when you're supposed to be talking about mike brown and what happened with mike brown. what difference does it make if other people in the community are in gangs? mike brown was not in a gang. that's who he was supposed to be talking about, and it's very clear from that comment that he was painting mike brown with the sort of broad brush as to how he saw the community at large. and this, all in response to softball questions from the
3:04 pm
prosecutors who wanted the grand jury, for some reason, to dislike the community. there's a lot of questions they asked of a number of witnesses about the community being anxious and agitated, as mike brown lay in the street for four hours. of course they were. isn't that appropriate? how should they feel when a young man is literally bleeding in the street for four hours before he's taken away. but there's this real slam on the community that comes through the transcripts that's very disturbing. >> now, tremayne, you're there in ferguson. you've been there all day. you were at the press conference of the father of michael brown, as well as the attorneys and national civil rights leader, it seems that what i hear all of the time, everywhere in ferguson, is -- let me come back, tremayne and ask that question. the president is about to speak. let's go live to illinois and hear president barack obama.
3:05 pm
>> thank you. ♪ ♪ >> hello, chicago. [ cheers and applause ] >> thank you so much. thank you. thank you so much. everybody have a seat. thank you. thank you very much. thank you so much. happy early thanksgiving, everybody. it is good to be home. although it -- [ cheers and applause ] although it's cold in chicago. it was 60 degrees in washington. it's not 60 degrees here. let me begin by thanking the coppern cuss center, gin dob ray, to everybody. [ applause ] we appreciate you.
3:06 pm
thank you so much. i hope you don't mind, because obviously there's a lot of stuff in the news, i actually need to begin by saying a few words about what happened over the past day. not just in ferguson, missouri, our neighbor to the south, but all across america. as many of you know, a verdict came down -- or a grand jury made a decision yesterday that upset a lot of people. and as i said last night, the frustrations that we've seen are not just about a particular incident. they have deep roots in many communities of color, who have a sense that our laws are not always being enforced uniformaluniform lly or fairly.
3:07 pm
that may not be true everywhere, and it's certainly not true for the vast majority of law enforcement everywhere, but it's an impression folks have, and it's not made up. it's rooted in realities that have existed in this country for a long time. now, as i said last night, there are productive ways of responding, and expressing those frustrations and there are destructive ways of responding. burning buildings, torching cars, destroying property, putting people at risk, that's destructive, and there's no excuse for it. those are criminal acts. and people should be prosecuted if they engage in criminal acts. but what we also saw, although it didn't get as much attention in the media, was people gathering in overwhelmingly peaceful protests, here in chicago, in new york, in los
3:08 pm
angeles, other cities. we've seen young people who are organizing and people beginning to have real conversations about, how do we change the situation so that there's more trust between law enforcement and some of these communities. and those are necessary conversations to have. we're here to talk about immigration, but part of what makes america this remarkable place is being american doesn't mean you have to look a certain way or have a certain last name, or come from a certain place. it has to do with a commitment to ideals, a belief in certain values, and if any part of the american community doesn't feel welcomed or treated fairly, that's something that puts all of us at risk. and we all have to be concerned
3:09 pm
about it. so my message to those people who are constructively moving forward, trying to organize, mobilize, and ask hard, important questions about how we improve the situation, i want all those folks to know that their president is going to work with them. i think you'll find a lot of -- [ applause ] separate and apart from the particular circumstances in ferguson, which i am careful not to speak to, because it's not my job as president to comment on ongoing investigations in specific cases, but the frustrations people have generally, those are rooted in some hard truths that have to be addressed. so, those who are prepared to
3:10 pm
work constructively, your president will work with you. and a lot of folks, i believe, in law enforcement, and a lot of folks in city halls and governors' offices across the country, want to work with you as well. so as part of that, i've instructed attorney general eric holder not just to investigate what happened in ferguson, but also identify specific steps we can take together to set up a series of regional meetings focused on building trust in our communities. next week, we'll bring together state and local officials and law enforcement and community leaders and faith leaders to start identifying very specific steps that we can take to make sure that law enforcement is fair and is being applied equally every person in this country. and we know certain things work. we know that if we train police
3:11 pm
properly, that that improves policing and makes people feel that the system's fair. we know that when we have a police force that is representative of the communities it's serving, that makes a difference. [ applause ] we know that -- we know that when there's clear accountability and transparency when something happens, that makes a difference. so there's specific things we can do, and the key now is for us to lift up the best practices and work, city by city, state by city, county by county, all across this country, because the problem is not just a ferguson problem, it is an american problem -- [ applause ] and we've got to make sure that we are actually bringing about change. the bottom line is, nothing of significance, nothing of benefit results from destructive acts.
3:12 pm
i've never seen a civil rights law or a health care bill or an immigration bill result because of car got burned. it happened because people vote, it happened because people mobilize, it happens because people organize. it happens because people look at what are the best policies to solve the problem. that's how you actually move something forward. [ applause ] so don't -- don't take the short-term, easy route and just engage in destructive behavior. take the long-term, hard but lasting route of working with me and governors, officials, to
3:13 pm
bring about some real change. and to those who think that what happened in ferguson is an excuse for violence, i do not have any sympathy for that. [ applause ] i have no sympathy at all for destroying your own communities. but for the overwhelming majority of people who just feel frustrated and pained because they get a sense that maybe some communities aren't treated fairly or some individuals aren't seen as worthy as others. i understand that. and i want to work with you. and i want to move forward with you. your president will be right there with you. so that's what we need to focus on. [ applause ] let's be constructive. now, i appreciate your patience because i know you came here to talk about immigration.
3:14 pm
but this is relevant. because part of what america is about -- >> the president directly addressing ferguson and making a very pointed statement, saying that we must deal in a constructive way with some hard truths. he also challenged people to deal with constructive ways to deal with three elements in law enforcement. whether they are representative, first of all. whether there's transparency and accountability. as well as whether or not they are operating in a way that is fair. those are the three things that seemed to resonate with a lot of citizens about the ferguson police department. and he challenged people. he says i have no sympathy with people who burn cars and burn property. but if you want to work constructively, and he says he will convene people, their
3:15 pm
president will work with them. i think that's the right thing. i think that many of us that have been involved in these questions want to do it in a constructive way. they're going to be those that will criticize you no matter what. but let us be constructive. it's hard work. it means you're going to be called names. but it also means we move the nation forward to live up to what the creed of the nation states. i want to go quickly to tremayne lee who's been listening to the president from ferguson. tremayne, those who are prepared to work constructively, i will work with you. will that be hard for some to hear tonight, tremayne? >> i don't think so at all. every single day i speak with protesters on the ground who have been working intensely to make this more than about ferguson. it's about american cities, about black and browne
3:16 pm
communities that are so disaffected. so when they hear the president talk about the concerns about law enforcement, it's not just a ferguson issue, it's an american issue. he wants to work city by city. he's directed the department of justice not just to look at ferguson, but to look at every city. those who have been preparing for these planned actions around that announcement, those folks on the ground, not those we saw last night who were disaffected youth that we're talking about here, those who took to the streets in an angry way. but those who are planning in a meticulous manner, it will definitely be heralded and definitely be applauded. tremayne lee, thank you for your time tonight. and lisa bloom, please stay with us. >> i will. coming up, michael brown's father breaks his silence tonight. my exclusive interview with him
3:17 pm
about his son, the decision, and fighting for justice. that's next. (vo) nourished. rescued. protected. given new hope. during the subaru "share the love" event, subaru owners feel it, too. because when you take home a new subaru, we donate 250 dollars to helping those in need. we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. for every way you make chicken noodle soup, make it delicious with swanson®. alright, so this tylenol arthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain.
3:18 pm
from san francisco to silicon valley, boston private bank works with all kinds of people who are innovating, building, contributing -- individuals, business owners, private partnerships, non-profits, families planning their financial futures. people like you. if you want the individual attention and expertise your financial needs deserve, this is your time. this is your private bank.
3:19 pm
up next, my exclusive interview with michael brown sr, his first public comments since the grand jury decision. stay with us. um to power their game day communication. abort! abort! he's keeping it! duracell quantum. lasts up to 35% longer than the competition.
3:20 pm
hey! so i'm looking at my bill, and my fico® credit score's on here. we give you your fico® score each month for free! awesomesauce! wow! the only person i know that says that is...lisa? julie?! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score. earlier today, i sat down with the brown family attorneys and michael brown's father, michael brown sr. a started by asking him how he felt last night when he heard the decision. >> when you heard it, how did
3:21 pm
you feel? i know we expected it, but how did you -- what was your reaction when you heard the decision? >> i was upset. i didn't understand. it just let me know that where we live is not where we thought -- or what i thought. what people been saying all the time, for a nice little minute, that this was a waste of space. >> as you listen to the prosecutor, in many ways try to disparage and put in a negative light your son, what were you thinking then? i mean, as i said in the press conference, i've been around a long time. i've never heard a prosecutor attack the character of the victim. as a father, this is your blood. all of us just want to see a trial. this is your blood. how did you feel while you sitting there watching this man
3:22 pm
do this to your son who can't defend himself? >> that's why i was there. i was just going to say that the only person that can really talk for him and me and his mom. and at this point, you're right, he can't defend himself. he's buried. they crucified his character. for people that don't even know my son, they probably wish they did, because the things that they're saying is just terrible. it's terrible. >> how are you feeling now? everyone wants to know how you feel. >> like i say, my emotions are all over the place. i don't know what to feel. you know, i'm just -- i'm just hurt. i'm empty. off what happened with the whole -- the whole thing, you
3:23 pm
know, with the death of my son and the verdict. so i'm just crushed. >> attorney crump, the process of a grand jury seems to have been totally missed in this situation. you were explaining that earlier. would you recount that? >> you know from dealing with many situations, the grand jury is supposed to be a process where the prosecutor actually recommends charges. he doesn't have a dump of everything. these are the relevant facts and this is why we're recommending these charges. but this prosecutor, i have said over and over again, changed all the rules. he said we're going to give all the information out there. we're not going to recommend any charges and we're just going to let the jurors figure it out on their own, which i suggest, if you do that to lay people and don't give them any direction,
3:24 pm
you can predict the result. they're not going to be able to agree on anything. so he said this was fair. so is that to mean, 28 years of him presenting stuff to grand juries was unfair. which is it? but don't change the rules on michael brown jr when he's laying dead on the ground. don't change the rules on our children. we want equal justice. we want due process for michael brown jr. whatever you would have did for the police officer, we want you to do that for michael brown jr, and i just don't believe, reverend al, that he would have attacked the police officer if the shoe was on the other foot and michael brown would have been the shooter. we got to, as americans, ask ourselves, what arguments would he have made if the facts were reversed? >> attorney gray was also
3:25 pm
striking. as he seemed to go out of his way in the statement last night, the d.a., to discredit the witnesses. doesn't that have a bearing on the fact that the federal government still has cases going that may call some of these witnesses? and if there's a civil proceeding, now they have the burden of a jury feeling that the witnesses, unnamed, have been discredited by the d.a., and he wasn't even obligated to comment on the witnesses? >> absolutely. i think it compromises the federal investigation to some extent. i also think it's a misnomer and a mischaracterization to call some of the individuals witnesses, when clearly through their testimony they said they didn't see anything. i question the decision to have those individuals to appear before the grand jury. i guess there was supposed to be some transfer of discredit from this person to all of the witnesses by saying this guy didn't see -- or whatever the person was, didn't see anything, yet they're testifying.
3:26 pm
so does that mean that all of those who came before who said they saw stuff really didn't? i mean, that's kind of the implication of it. but i do think that these are -- his statement about these witnesses clearly can have some detrimental impact on the federal investigation. >> the fact that he called witnesses in front of grand jth jury that said they didn't see anything. why would he call them? is there a legal reason for it? >> i can't think of any logical reason why you would do that. as attorney crump said earlier and pamela means, the president of our national bar association, have put out there, made it very clear, you put on your best case. you put on the evidence that you would put on in a trial. i'm sure this prosecutor wasn't going to call a so-called witness who didn't witness anything had this case gone to trial. so why would you do it in a grand jury process to determine if you're going to have a trial?
3:27 pm
so, no, it doesn't make good non-sense. so i question that, and it just paints the whole situation, in my opinion. >> attorney crump, when he says he felt like hulk, this is officer darren wilson saying he felt like hulk against a 5-year-old boy. you address that. >> a first-year law student, reverend al, would have done a better job of cross-examining the killer of an unarmed person than the prosecutor's office did. he was, the police officer, 6'4", 210 pounds, and michael was 6'6", 292 pounds. they both were big guys, but he said he felt like a 5-year-old child having to fight hulk hogan, and nobody challenged him on that.
3:28 pm
when you think about he's saying his injuries, these terrible injuries, and you remember initially it was leaked he had a blow-out orbital fracture to his eye socket. and then we see these pictures and attorney gray and i, we couldn't believe the pictures, because we said there's nothing wrong with him. it looks like it's just blush on him. and the prosecutor never addressed that, reverend al. never said one word about this isn't consistent, the physical evidence isn't consistent with the beatdown you say you got. you have to question, what was the prosecutor's prerogative here. >> the standard in the federal courts is different than state courts, the bar that you have to reach for indictment. so when he says that he and attorney general holder and the fbi were investigating together, the implications are not true, because they would be looking at
3:29 pm
a different bar, would have a different grand jury, is that right? >> absolutely. and as attorney gray said, you know, these witnesses now that he's attacked their credibility, they're part of an ongoing investigation. why would you do that? it just seems completely unfair to michael brown jr's family and their due process. >> michael, there was a lot of coverage about a lot of the violence, even though for 103 days there have been peaceful protests and even went and cut a public service announcement calling for peace. and even when others were -- you've always stood for peace. the president of the united states quoted you last night in his statement to the world about michael's father. how important is it for you that your son be remembered for peace and for change? >> it's very important.
3:30 pm
the things that's going on, that's not my son. you know, my son was a good guy. a quiet guy. so, in his name, i want to keep it on a positive note. and those are the issues that i'm just trying to keep pushing forward. so the world will know that we're going to stay positive through all of this, you know. >> as you have now seen the report, in going forward, you're determined you're going to follow this through no matter what? >> i'm not stopping, reverend al. can't stop. >> can't stop. at the end of the day, this is an international issue to many of us, but it's this man's son,
3:31 pm
it's the mother's son. they were the ones that reached out. and when they reached out, they had no idea it would be an international story. they only wanted due process for their son. more from ferguson and the issues of ferguson when we come back. look, i love the way he controls abthe lightsbutler. and unlocks the door when i forget my keys... it's just that... i feel like he's always watching us. yes, that is why we should use wink. ...look, it can monitor and manage our house but it won't start to develop human emotions. hey buddy. control your entire home with one simple app introducing wink it's like a robot butler, but not as awkward. ugh... ...heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit.
3:32 pm
mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. yyou think it smellspet fine, but your guests smell this. eliminate odors you've gone noseblind to with febreze fabric refresher. smells good. so you and your guests can breathe happy.
3:33 pm
having a perfectly nice day, when out of nowhere a pick-up truck slams into your brand new car. one second it wasn't there and the next second... boom! you've had your first accident. now you have to make your first claim. so you talk to your insurance company and... boom! you're blindsided for a second time. they won't give you enough money to replace your brand new car. don't those people know you're already shaken up? liberty mutual's new car replacement will pay for the entire value of your car plus depreciation. call and for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident.
3:34 pm
switch to liberty mutual insurance and you could save up to $423 dollars. call liberty mutual for a free quote today at see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. tonight, so many questions about the prosecutor and the grand jury. its purpose is to find out if there is probable cause for a trial. not to determine guilt or innocence. but that was exactly what happened in this case. joining me now are lisa bloom, attorney and legal analyst for, and prosecutor paul henderson. thank you both for joining me. >> thanks, rev. >> thanks for having us. >> paul, how far did the
3:35 pm
prosecutor depart from grand jury standards? >> well, this is something that i think everybody is really upset about, even from the beginning when the prosecution took such an intransgent position about how he was going to proceed in this case. he really abdicated his position, his responsibility, by turning this over to the grand jury. now, it does happen in some states that when there's an officer-involved shooting, they convene a grand jury to do an investigation. but most of the time, when you have a grand jury, they have a purpose. they have a direction. but you only get to that decision after independently deciding not to file charge and proceed by way of preliminary hearing, which in a case like this, with the facts and circumstances like this, with suchoriety and controversy,
3:36 pm
would have done a lot to eampt alleviate the distrust the community had, in turning over whether or not a case like this was charged at all to a grand jury. it just does not address the concern that many people in the community have about what evidence was going to be presented and what the motivation would be with the singular -- singular -- prosecutor that was in the room with that audience of the grand jury. because you don't have a defense attorney. you don't have a judiciary advocate in there determining what evidence is going to come in or out. it really is singularly determined by that one prosecutor who is handling the case, and how they present evidence to the grand jury to make a determination. that's where a lot of this frustration, i think, is coming from. and i know it's somewhat complicated understanding the legal process. but in my opinion, that's the decision that could have been made to address this. >> lisa, the "new york times" wrote that the way this prosecutor questioned witnesses,
3:37 pm
quote, prosecutors do not seem to shy from pointing out discrepancies or pointing out the past criminal history of some witnesses. does that seem like a strange way for prosecutors to handle witnesses for the state's case in a grand jury? >> right. they did it for the witnesses who essentially said that darren wilson had done something wrong, but they didn't do it for darren wilson himself. they didn't point out discrepancies in his own story, that his story doesn't match up with the physical evidence. when i got to the end of darren wilson's testimony, there's this moment that just really struck me, which was the prosecutor saying to him, is there anything else you want to say to the grand jury? and darren wilson himself said, well, nobody's asked me how i was in fear when mike brown was running away. darren wilson himself raised that, because the prosecutors did not do that in the grand
3:38 pm
jury room. and then he essentially says, he assaulted me in the car -- >> so darren wilson himself raised what was not questioned about how he felt, when in fact, the victim michael brown was running away? he raised this? >> yes, he raised it. presumably he thought maybe somebody in the grand jury is thinking this and not asking, and this is my own and only chance, so i'm going to raise it myself and answer it myself. he said, well, because i was assaulted at the car and if he would do that to me, maybe he would do that with someone else. so he's essentially raising a defense of others defense, which is different than what he said previously that he killed mike brown in defense of his own life. that conflict also was not pointed out by the prosecutors. >> so, paul, couldn't the prosecutor have pointed out the discrepancy in that statement as opposed to what he had said before, that lisa points out? >> absolutely. and the issue that lisa raised
3:39 pm
is, in my opinion, the linchpin on this entire case. it's not so much what happened at the car and the fight that occurred at the car. whatever that transgression was, but once mr. brown had removed himself from that situation, and/or was running, what really turns this whole case is the determination of when and how those kill shots occurred, how far away michael brown was, when and if he had turned around, had raised his hands. all of these issues matter specifically if he had turned around and was charging. the officer would only have a justified right to use deadly force if he were in fear from himself, or for someone else in the 20 feet of distance and those are the issues that lisa just raised that actually make a determination as to what this jury should have been focusing on to make a determination about charging. >> lisa bloom and paul henderson, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you so much for having
3:40 pm
us, rev. >> thank you, rev. ahead, growing calls for the federal government to step in. will officer wilson face civil rights charges? we are live from ferguson next. ♪soft holiday music ]♪
3:41 pm
can you help me up? [ snow intensifies ] [ sleighbells ring in the distance ] aleve. all day pain relief with just 2 pills. get back to being you. why do i cook for the to share with family to carry on traditions to come together, even when we're apart in stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, and more, swanson® makes holiday dishes delicious! no question about that. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved
3:42 pm
to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. i will take beauty into my own hands where it belongs. olay regenerist instantly changes the look of skin. it regenerates surface cells new skin is revealed in only 5 days without drastic measures.
3:43 pm
stunningly youthful, award-winning skin. never settle for anything less. the regenerist collection, from the world's number 1 olay, your best beautiful right now, you can get a single line with 3 gigs for $65 a month. 3 gigs ... is that a lot? that's about ... 100 app downloads, 45 hours of streaming music, and 6 hours of video playing. (singing) and five golden rings! ha, i see what you did... (singing) four calling birds...three french hens ...(the guys starts to fizzle out) two... turtle...doves... i really went for it there ya you did ... you really, really did now get 3 gigs of data on one line for $65 a month. switch to at&t, buy a new smartphone and get $150 credit per line. you owned your car for four you named it brad.
3:44 pm
you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. you know i tried one of those bargain paper towels but i had to use so many sheets per spill the roll just disappeared. i knew i should've bought bounty bounty is 2x more absorbent and strong when wet. just look how much longer bounty lasts versus one of those bargain brand towels. and that's a good deal. bounty. the long lasting picker upper and now try new bounty nfl prints. available at walmart. introducing... a pm pain reliever that dares to work
3:45 pm
all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. (vo)rescued.ed. protected. given new hope. during the subaru "share the love" event, subaru owners feel it, too. because when you take home a new subaru, we donate 250 dollars to helping those in need. we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. for every way you make chicken noodle soup, make it delicious with swanson®.
3:46 pm
3:47 pm
>> the grand jury's refusal to indict officer darren wilson is not the end of the push for justice in the michael brown case. today attorney general eric holder made it clear he'll continue his investigation into whether officer wilson violated michael brown's civil rights and into whether the ferguson police department has used excessive force. >> the department's investigations will continue to be thorough. they will continue to be independent. and they remain ongoing. they will be conducted rigorously and in a timely manner so that we can move forward as expeditiously as we can to restore trust, to rebuild understanding and to foster cooperation between law enforcement and community members. >> joining me now is trial
3:48 pm
attorney seema iyer and eric guster. thank you both for being here this evening. >> thanks, rev. >> seema, how important is it that these justice department investigations remain totally separate from local prosecutor's case? >> it is crucial, rev. and it is hope. it is not over. the feds are going to continue to investigate both criminally and civilly. department of justice, they investigate the entire ferguson department and see how they have instilled their practices and their patterns and have they done so appropriately. so if they have not, they can now remedy the situation civilly, perhaps take some officers down, demote them, maybe some new training is involved. and maybe they'll discover excessive force. now at the same time, the department of justice is investigating federal, criminal
3:49 pm
civil rights charges against specifically officer wilson. >> eric, the question of the federal government, the justice department has two investigations going on in ferguson right now. investigators are looking into weather ferguson police have a history of using excessive force against suspects and the justice department is also looking at the treatment of detainees in the ferguson city jail. if they find a history of excessive force with the police department, what can happen? >> a lot can happen, reverend al. the justice department can come in and literally shut down their police department and put another police department over that region. >> that's true. >> because the department of justice has a lot of leeway. especially when people's civil rights have been violated. >> right. >> -- because of a certain segment of people have been violated, such as police brutality, over-policing, stops
3:50 pm
that are disproportionate to racial lines, police barricades set up in different places based upon a neighborhood, or the race of people in neighborhoods, that can cause the department of justice to come in, make changes and wipe out everyone on that police department and start over from scratch. >> and rev, could i just jump in and point out that this investigation could also show thfficer wilson used excessive force against somebody else -- somebody else besides michael brown, and then new charges could be brought against officer wilson, against an entirely different victim. >> because that's what they start doing. they can look at a case, start interviewing witnesses and find patterns of abuse. that's how civil rights violations can be charged a lot easier, especially when they see a pattern of abuse along racial lines or based on sex, or some other reason.
3:51 pm
>> now, seema, there has been prominent cases where the justice department has come in and they've been able to bring civil rights violation charges against police officers. in the beating of rodney king, four officers were charged and convicted. >> right. >> in the death of anthony baez, one officer was charged and convicted. in the post katrina shootings, five officers were charge. and in the death of chaney, sch westerner, and goodman, two officers were convicted. the doj investigate is continuing. couldn't they turn up evidence that wilson did violate michael brown's civil rights? >> of course that is the hope, rev. but still the bar is so high, because they have to show that officer wilson at the moment in time that he was under combat or engaged in combat with michael
3:52 pm
brown, that he had this willful intention to deprive michael brown of his constitutional rights, that protected class being that michael brown is a black man. so it would be very difficult for any of us to show that at that moment in time, he was thinking, i want to kill this guy because he's black, as opposed to just i want to shoot him because he's a nuisance. >> all right, well, let me go to that, eric, because in an interview with abc news that aired just moments ago, officer wilson defended shooting michael brown, saying his conscience is clear. listen to this. >> is there anything you could have done differently that would have prevented that killing from taking place? >> no. >> nothing? >> no. >> and you're absolutely convinced, when you look through your heart and your mind that if
3:53 pm
michael brown were white, this would have gone down in exactly the same way? >> no. >> no question? >> no question. >> he's lying. he's lying. go, eric, he's lying. >> i have a problem with that. i have defended people in murder cases. most of them will say, i wish i did things differently. i wish i didn't drive down that street. i wish i didn't encounter that person. he had zero remorse for what happened, and that shows where his heart is, that he wanted to kill michael brown and did not care about it. and i have a problem with that. >> seema? >> he's lying, rev. i've been saying this over and over again, that we coach our clients to say what fits the narrative that we want to sell, and that's exactly what he's saying. of course he could have done something different. he took a life. why didn't see try to do anything else but kill this kid? why does he want to even be going through this himself? >> exactly. it's a horrible situation.
3:54 pm
>> seema and eric, thank you both for your time this evening. >> thanks, rev. coming up, president obama speaks about the situation in ferguson, and the, quote, hard truths our country must face. next.
3:55 pm
turning a private tragedy
3:56 pm
into a spark for public change, that's what we all need to focus on now in ferguson. and across the country. i'll talk about that next. you got the bargain kind? you would need like a bunch of those to clean this mess. then i'll use a bunch of them. what are you doing? dish issues? ... ... get cascade complete. one pac cleans better than six pacs of the bargain brand combined. cascade. now that's clean.
3:57 pm
♪soft holiday music ]♪ can you help me up? [ snow intensifies ] [ sleighbells ring in the distance ] aleve.
3:58 pm
all day pain relief with just 2 pills. get back to being you. tonight, we need peace on the streets of ferguson. and we also need to focus on the deeper issues of this crisis. because the policing issues exposed in ferguson are not isolated concerns. it's part of a national problem we all need to address. >> the frustrations people have generally, those are rooted in some hard truths that have to be addressed. and so those who are prepared to work constructively, your president will work with you. the problem is not just a ferguson problem, it is an american problem. >> it's an american problem.
3:59 pm
and now we must talk about how we as a country move forward in the right way. we need to honor michael brown's memory through positive change, not through violence. i talked to michael brown sr about that earlier. >> how important is it to you that your son be remembered for peace and for change? >> it's the things that's -- it's the things that's going on, that's not my son. you know, my son was a good guy. a quiet guy. so, in his name, i want to keep it on a positive note, you know. and those are the issues that i'm just trying to keep pushing forward, so the world will know, you know, that we're going to stay positive through all of this. >> michael brown sr and michael brown's mom want their son to be
4:00 pm
remembered in history for doing something positive toward leading toward real positive change. and those of us that stand with them say, we just want the process to be fair. and a fair process should lead to wherever the evidence brings us. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now pch. ferguson, what comes next? let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. all eyes on ferguson once again after a night of violence following the decision that a grand jury has decided not to file charges against darren wilson in the shooting date of michael brown. dozens of people were