tv Lockup Indiana MSNBC November 27, 2014 12:00am-1:01am PST
some resort to violence. >> while i was on lockup, i was always involved in excessive violence. >> when i was stabbing him, i was talking [ bleep ]. i said, you feel kind of vulnerable now, don't you? >> others become victims. >> -- in prison for rape, which i am -- i am persecuted in a multitude of ways. >> while some can only wait for the inevitable. >> i don't deal in hope. while you're on death row, you don't deal with hope. if you dwell on it, you end up either hanging yourself or going crazy. >> and with the personal cameras we left them, both inmates and their feline companions have plenty more to say. >> you like being here, cletus? i take that as a no. if you're in prison, we
really have no choice. because if we let one person disrespect us, then other people's gonna disrespect us. and that's the world that we are forced to live in. a world of predators. a world where the strong prey upon the weak. >> no matter how long they've been in prison or how many tattoos they have, no matter their reputation or how many fights they've been in, at one time or another, every inmate experiences fear. and no one knows fear like an inmate on his first day behind the walls. >> this is my first day here in michigan city, isp. when i came in, i saw the wall,
of course. and that was kind of intimidating. basically, we took guns, went into peoples' houses. a lot of bad stuff happened during the robbery. a lady was shot multiple times with a pellet gun. lady was made to strip. turned out not so good. my mom passed two months before i came -- before i got locked up. i basically just -- i was -- i didn't care. i was wild. just one of those nights that we was drunk. and we just -- >> new arrivals, like knight, are housed in "g" unit. a lock-down dormitory where they will stay for at least a few days until they complete
orientation and can be assigned a bed in general population. in the meantime, they have little to do other than to think. >> i try to keep anything negative out of my head, because i don't like to stress too much over things. because i don't want it to tear me up. it's big. facing 70 years. >> can you get mr. knight for me? he's 18 years old. he's been in trouble with the law since he's 14. he ain't been outside much, out of a secured facility much, since 14 years old. we'll work with him and tell him, you know, what his needs are and what we think he needs to work with. how you doing this morning? >> okay. >> you adjusting well? >> yep. >> you're in gr51 orientation. this is your name as we know it.
the number is 191618. you're at indiana state prison. this pprd, the expected relice date is 2-23-2043. all right. this is the book for here, the offender handbook. this tells you all your different services. what you can expect to provide. i need you to sign off on that. all right. notification of next of kin. this is what you need to do. just god hopes that nothing bad happens to you, but we need to know who to call and all that. all right. this is a big one. i don't mean any disrespect to you, but you're a young kid. yeah. people might try to take advantage of you here. this is the sexual assault prevention and reporting. >> we had this at rdc, too. >> okay. well, it gets a little more serious here. because rdc, there's people there watching you. you get up in "c" cell house around here, and we might really have a problem. nothing personal, you are young, and you look younger than you
are. so, people will tend to take advantage of you. we'll try to keep you as safe as we can, but most of it is going to be put on you. you've got to take control of it. all right? >> i've heard about that while i was in the county. i mean -- >> about what? >> sexual assault in joints around here. >> we'll worry about the sexual aspects, you know, whether he'll be pressured for sex. they call them predators and prey. and he'll probably be a prey. >> but in prison, sexual predators themselves can become prey. there are certain inmates who will not tolerate them. steven weaver is one of those inmates. but weaver's reputation for violence began before he came to prison. >> i was a member of the outlaws motorcycle club at the time that i caught my cases. if you were just to look at it on paper, you would go [ bleep ]
they should never let this guy out, you know? two counts of murder, started out with. a chain saw was involved with one of them. that's kind of bloody. >> weaver's violence on the outside landed him a 60-year sentence for murder. but in prison he attempted to kill again. the victim was his cellmate who he claimed was a child molester. weaver attacked him on christmas eve. >> when i was stabbing him, i was talking [ bleep ]. i said, you feel kind of vulnerable now, don't you? he's like, yeah. i said, maybe that little girl that you raped, think she might have felt this vulnerable? i said, "your life is in my hands now." i stabbed him several times, shallow enough to not kill him, i was hoping. once again, i was making a
point. >> weaver is due to be released in 2027, thanks to what he says was an anti-death penalty judge at his original murder trial. >> bottom line is i got an out-date. this arrogant-ass judge, you know, didn't believe in the death penalty. thought that's what i wanted. so he was going to give me the opposite. he could have made a serious mistake because when i first got to prison, like i said, i had blood on my mind. you know, i wanted to get my knife wet, and i did. and it's only by the grace of the gods and goddesses that this guy lived. and i've just always kind of wondered what that judge would have thought when i got to prison and i could have killed somebody else, when he could have sentenced me to death like he should have. >> your unit, [ bleep ], [ bleep ] [ bleep ] you. >> the prison attempts to deal with a violent predator. >> when i first got sentenced, man, i started stabbing police.
as a sex offender or as a person in prison for rape, which i am, i am persecuted in a multitude of ways. sometimes physical. sometimes psychological. sometimes legally. all right? nobody is fond of a convicted rapist. but even more so, nobody, and i mean nobody, not even a convicted rapist, approves of the child molesters. you see what i'm saying? and they get the worst of the
whole thing. >> while most incarcerated sex offenders are, in fact, marked men, jamie daniels is one of the exceptions. >> when i was in high school my senior year, i was involved in a relationship with a sophomore. and we had a child. so i am considered a sex offender. i do have to register as a sex offender. there's probably a few people that are nay eve that don't really understand the situation. but for the most part, i'm respected in here as someone who's not a predatorial sex offender. >> any inmate who might be tempted to harass daniels because of his prior sex charge would need to do so at his own risk. >> this is a regular roundhouse kick. any time you get in a fight, use that for the leg. top of his leg or come straight down and go high or just drive
straight through his ribs like that. >> daniels is an expert in brazilian jujitsu. >> in fact, we developed a lot of this stuff when we used to teach anti-rape clinics, which is ironic i'm a sex offender. and we teach anti-rape clinics to women because it's on the ground. i've never raped anyone. but i'm assuming a rape would happen on the ground with a predator on top of us. in prison, this looks kind of bad. but if i take someone and i get them in this position like this, as soon as he stands up like that -- go right on top of him. there's always a sense of underlying fear. and i think that it's important to not ever forget that. fear keeps you on a razor's edge. >> fear was an essential ingredient in daniel's criminal activities outside of prison. after serving time on the sex charge, he turned to bank robbery. >> i robbed upwards of close to
30, 30 banks. there is $947,000 missing. i consider myself to be a professional at it. i watched enough movies. as i would come in the bank, i would go poof, like that. kind of like a magic trick. two bags would just automatically appear. and then i would run right at the first teller and i would jump up on the counter and i would stand over them. see how i stood up? you've got to move the camera. those cameras were all facing down. so they got 90 seconds of just my ass and legs, mostly. and you bark out orders. see, i don't want to hurt anybody. i'm not going to hurt anybody. you know, but they don't know that. okay? create peace by emanating extreme violence. in fact patrick swayze said that in the movie where he robbed all the banks. what's that, "point break"? >> striking fear into others has also landed darren bailey in prison, but he took things beyond the fear stage. >> oh, man. it was kind of gruesome, man. bodies all found and everything like that. for this area, it's not really
easy to walk through. we're not having a typical conversation now. now we're dealing with something more personal. as much as i try to move on, i'm still haunted by that past. >> bailey didn't elaborate on the crimes that got him incarcerated, but with the personal camera our producer let him use, he revealed a violent past in prison as well. >> when i first got sentenced, man, i started stabbing police. you know, i targeted them. okay, well, yeah, i did what i did. okay. and since ya'll want to sentence me excessively, all right, i got pain. so y'all got pain.
now we all got pain. >> until recently, bailey's time at indiana state has been marked by violence and outbursts of anger. >> your unit, your [ bleep ], man. your unit. [ bleep ] you. i ran professionally. [ bleep ] [ bleep ] you. i've always thought that you're not going to go home anyway, so why tolerate this [ bleep ]? what you need to do, man, is just start raging, just start punishing people, you know, it doesn't matter why, just punish them. but that's not the answer. one thing about being incarcerated is it all comes down to a loss. you know, a loss of freedom. loss of people. loss of family, friends. it's one great big loss. but you begin to realize that i don't want to give the system my mentality. i don't want to give the system my sanity. i don't want to give them my integrity. i don't want to give them my loyalty. they're fighting for it. every day, it's a fight in here. every day, you're fighting for something. what i decided to do, i sought mental health. mental health didn't come to me.
i went to them. i told them that i would like some help. >> he's been in the idu, our segregation unit, disciplinary segregation unit, i think for 5 1/2 months now. and he's been conduct clear throughout that time. so that told me that he really is motivated. how you doing, man? welcome. >> thank you. >> they got you up today, right? >> wednesday. >> wednesday? >> bailey was recently transferred from idu to the residential treatment unit or rtu, where he's given more privileges and ongoing counseling. >> other guys like, yeah. we can do it like he did it, you know. >> well, yeah. remember, you're trying to change your path. you've been going down a certain road for many years. my only concern is we have to make sure that you have the skills in this initial part to
not get suckered into something that's going to trigger your anger. >> everything is going to be all right. >> yeah, really, i'm excited for you. i think -- if you let us help you and support you, i think this is going to work really good for you. mr. bailey has done excellent in maintaining his behavior. when he got here, he decided that he's kind of done fighting, is done being disruptive. we're pretty particular about who we take in. the bottom line on this unit is there can be no violence on this unit. you're going to be one of our stars. >> that's right. >> i know that. i know that, okay? >> coming up -- >> austin knight leaves the security of the intake dorm behind.
i've got to be sure. how much time do i have? this is not a bob ross session. bob ross is a fantastic artist, but this is not no 15-minute escalade. this is serious art here. how much time do i have? >> some inmates struggle with how to serve time, a problem steven robbins has mastered. >> art is my sanity and my salvation. i mean, that's what keeps me stable. this is all paint. this is not acrylics. you have to let this dry. that's how i do it. i don't try to put too much of a buildup on the paint because i want to control it. creativity, i got you, no
problem. >> as one of the prison's more senior residents, robbins also sees himself as a bit of a father figure to some of the new inmates, as austin knight will soon discover. >> knight? >> yeah? >> ready to go? >> after completing the classification process, it's time for knight's transfer to general population. >> got everything? >> i'm going to "d." i wanted to get out of there, intake as soon as possible. be able to get some air now. i'm a little nervous. but other than that, it's more excitement than anything. more relief. i'm glad to be out of just that room all day. >> there you go. right there. they'll get you hooked up with your property and a mattress and see if we can get you some stuff to clean in there. >> okay. >> all right?
>> yes. >> finally, knight is left alone to begin his 70-year sentence at indiana state. >> i thought the room would be a little bit bigger. that's about all. >> but it's not long before he makes a new friend, steven robbins. >> i'm steve, man. >> how you doing? i'm austin. >> austin? >> austin. >> is this your first time doing a bit? >> mm-hmm. >> all right, look. you belong to any gangs or organizations? >> no. >> all right.
i'm going to work with you. it's very important you don't get involved with anybody. no peer pressure. or anything. don't borrow no money from someone if you can't pay it back. don't get hooked up with no drugs if you can't deal with it. you understand what i'm saying? >> i don't do no kind of drugs. >> then i'll work with you. how much time you got? >> 70 years. >> damn. what kind of crime did you commit? >> robbery. >> home invasion? >> uh-huh. >> they don't want you doing that, man. that's a dangerous thing, man. you go to somebody's house. >> yep. >> you can't do that, partner. you understand what i'm talking about? austin, what you want to do? there's a lot of opportunities you can do while you're here. you get your high school education? >> yeah. >> and you wasted that? how old are you? >> 18. >> 18? you come right out of high school, and you go commit a crime. >> uh-huh. >> why? what you doing? >> just wild. just my mind wasn't in the right place. >> look, school is what you need. >> they told me i can work and go to college. >> you can go to school, college, yes, you can. but that is the objective. as far as trying to get a job. okay. i'm through here. i'm good to go here. when you come out, i'm in 114. we can go to chow together. i'll introduce you to people, everybody else, all right? okay? it's cool. don't panic. all right? all right. >> while knight seemed to be adjusting well to general population, this would be the last we would see of him. he told our producer that he no longer wanted us to follow his progress out of fear that the attention might single him out among his new peers. coming up --
fear is an ever-present emotion in prison. but one resident at indiana state knows no fear. >> just walks around here and survives off everybody. everybody shows it love. it's a little punk cat. >> punk cat! >> that's a cool cat there. >> her name is actually precious. but joey couldn't get it to come to him calling it precious, so he started calling it punk cat. >> while punk cat seems to belong to everyone, her real caretaker is joseph hill. >> she got that nickname. somebody got stabbed in the cell house. i had lieutenants and captains and everybody on the range yelling at me to get her in.
she decided she didn't want to go in. i got a little aggravated and told her to get her punk ass in the cell. so she kind of looked at me and went "meow." i said, "punk ass, get in the cell." that's how she got her name. >> he's kind of a rebel, i would say she is. everybody else, you're supposed to keep your cat on a leash, whatever. well, you sit out here and look out the window around 2:00 or 2:30, bringing his big old fat butt out here, going down the street, hanging out. >> she's kind of known as the only person that can run around all day and night long without getting a charge.
>> punk ass, come here. come here, mommy. come here. what's wrong? what your ears doing sticking up like that for? >> when you're walking through here at night, he will get an ankle or two. he loves to get the moths and the butterflies. he goes all over this institution. >> but hill never worries about her well-being. >> nobody is going to do anything to her. i wouldn't even -- if somebody hurt her, i wouldn't even have a chance to get to them. >> why? >> because somebody else would handle it before i got a chance to. you know, everybody loves this cat. if you don't like this cat and this cat don't like you, you got some serious issues. >> cats play a big part in alleviating fear and conflict at isp, even in the one part of the prison that is so ominous people don't even like to mention its real name -- death row. >> well, it's called "x" row. no one knows really why they call it "x" row. people say the "x" is towards the end of the alphabet, the end of the line. they "x" people out, extinguish life over here. i guess that's why they call it "x" row. >> well, the cat program has proven to be a very helpful program. when we expanded it to include our death row inmates, we do know that that unit, they've had a very calming effect on the death row inmates. they actually have something that they can have an emotional bond with because they are separated from the rest of the facility, and, of course, they always have that looming date over their head.
and the bonding and the calmness that it's put on the death row inmates has been very significant. >> i'm not a cat person to begin with, but i got me one. and i like the little fella. he's not bad. >> cletus, a shelter cat who might otherwise be facing his own death sentence, was adopted by benjamin richie, who was condemned to die for the murder of a police officer. >> somebody when i'm feeling down, you know, it seems like he can tell and he's right there. he'll climb all over you and stuff. when they executed my friend mike, he slept in the bed the whole night with me, you know. that was pretty cool. my cat cletus. society didn't need, you know, some guys back here worthy of, you know, keeping their life, so they gave them a death sentence.
you know, that's like giving up. i'm not going to -- you know, nobody wanted the cat, i'll take him, you know? everybody deserves a second chance. you like being here, cletus? take it as a no. why not? you get fed every day, don't you, boy? you get to sleep in the bed with me, don't you, boy? it's hard to explain, you know. he's like a kid, you know what i mean? he means a lot to me, you know. >> still appealing his sentence, richie's execution date could be years away if it comes at all. eric wrinkles, however, is nearly out of options. >> i could well be executed within the next four to six months. maybe sooner. maybe later. >> wrinkles was convicted of
shooting and killing his estranged wife, her brother and sister-in-law. we first met him on the original "lockup" episode at indiana state in 2006. >> we had a combination of drugs and a divorce, child custody and visitation. and i was into methamphetamine pretty heavy at the time. and one thing led to another. and here i sit. >> at the time we met him, wrinkles' appeals were nearly exhausted. >> i don't deal in hope. when you're on death row, you don't deal in hope. if you dwell on it, you end up either hanging yourself or going crazy. so i don't do that. i keep a normal routine. i exercise. i read. i write. i watch a little bit of tv. i do some other things. that's what the day is in here. the same, you know, pretty well day after day, boredom and monotony. but, you know, some kind of a schedule is what keeps you focused and motivated to go on, so that's what you do.
>> welcome to isp, meditation section. >> darren bailey, an inmate with a violent past, is hoping to find focus and motivation through meditation. >> now, this is a meditation called releasing of the mind. >> bailey was recently transferred from the prison's intensive detention unit to the residential treatment unit because the psychological staff believe he is an inmate determined to change his disruptive behavior. >> we all need to meditate, just clear our mind, clear our thoughts, clear our systems. push all that poison out of you, inhale fresh breath. >> once feared by staff and inmates alike, bailey has shown signs that his hair-trigger temper is subsiding. >> he had a significant challenge.
someone called him the "b" word, which in prison is just really one step short of getting ready to fight. and somehow he managed to not get provoked and calm himself down and work that out some other way. so, you know, all we can do is take it day by day and keep encouraging him that he's doing a good thing, that he's not being a coward by not responding back with violence. i thought that when they called you the "b" word, that it was time to dude up and knife up -- >> i guess generally speaking, but this program has kind of taken me away from all that. you know. in my mindset, this is not the battlefield out there. you know? so i don't view this program as the battlefield. i'm taking this program and generating that energy towards something more positive, something more constructive. >> right. >> i can't believe how well i'm doing internally. i can't believe how great -- i made a major accomplishment. >> right. you know, hold onto that because that's where you want to be.
>> yeah, exactly. exactly. >> and that's life. we never know what's going to come our way. coming up -- >> he's a [ bleep ] failure to my program. he just [ bleep ] kicked me out of the [ bleep ] program. >> you think i can keep you in this program when you almost killed a guy? >> how is he almost dead? >> darren bailey's commitment to nonviolence comes to a shocking end. >> that's the most brutal assault i've seen there in two years. >> and the inmates on "x" row get dreaded news. jamie daniels has taken an involuntary hiatus from martial . opportunity. that's the real walmart.
being in his cell when he was supposed to be. >> but it was good to get away for a couple of weeks because i was out there just moving so fast. just settled me down. gave me the opportunity to think without a lot of chaos going on. hopefully when i go back out, i'll be more in tune mentally. >> and in spite of his confinement, the jujitsu expert will do his best to stay in shape physically as well. >> i take a wool blanket, whatever. some people put a book to make it harder. just get a little padding. it's not as forgiving as a regular punching bag, but do with what we got. i come back here and fire off some punches, about 50, 60 jabs, do that each hand like that. do some combinations. stuff like that, back and forth. just to burn off some calories. >> but a far more serious offense has occurred inside the residential treatment unit. a brutal assault in the laundry room has left one inmate near death.
the attacker had claimed he was committed to ending his violent ways. >> they're claiming that, being that the guy was paralyzed temporarily, that i have, as a result, i have something to do with that. >> well, what i know is that he sort of sneak-attacked this guy and came up behind him and hit him with a mop wringer. >> it was my workstation, which would be the laundry room. that's where everybody was at. we were all in there. but when i came out the laundry room, first thing i did was say, hey, you guys, this guy is in here on the floor unconscious, and he's spitting up blood, and his body is shaking. i need to get paramedics up here. i did that, and as a result, this is the thanks i get? >> the guy -- his head was
extremely swollen. it kind of looked like a pumpkin. he had a puncture wound on his back. and, allegedly, mr. bailey stepped on his head while he was unconscious. his head was laying on the mop wringer. >> darren bailey denies he was the assailant, but prison staff say they have evidence to the contrary. >> mr. bailey. >> what's up, man? >> not much. took me about a week to gather my thoughts before i could come back and see you. >> yeah, but you already did everything else. kicked me out of the program, threw me under the bus. [ bleep ] him. don't bother with him anymore. he's a [ bleep ] failure to the [ bleep ] program. you're just going to kick me out of the program. other guys -- >> you think i can keep you in the program when you almost killed a guy? >> how is he almost dead? we don't describe to damn here. some others was up there. they was up there fighting, they didn't get cast away. >> that's the most brutal assault i've seen there in two years. >> so are you saying i did that? >> you and i know that you did it. >> nah, you ain't going to put words in my mouth. >> whatever they do with it, that's up to them. but you're not going back on that unit. >> i'm not trying to get back on the unit. my objective was reached. >> that's the thing that really
pisses me off. and i think you really [ bleep ] me on that. >> what's that? >> because i think you had this planned all along. to [ bleep ] it up. >> [ bleep ] that dude up. listen, my reputation precedes me. ain't a [ bleep ] going to mess with me. you know why, i'm going to bring that [ bleep ] [ bleep ]. i didn't do that. i didn't do that. i mean, that's a major breakthrough for me. >> no, you allegedly hit him over the head with a mop thing and nearly killed him. >> now, he ain't got no signs of a mop wringer hitting him in his head. >> you didn't see him after. >> huh? >> you didn't see him after. >> i just seen the dude! he bit off more than he can chew. and because he got served, i'm responsible for that? no, it ain't work like that. it ain't work like that. that's some type of racist connotation in there. you know, it has to be. as soon as i get involved in it, let's get him out of here. you know what i'm saying? and you, you didn't even take a second thought about it. you terminated me immediately. immediately. immediately. >> immediately. because i saw that dude when he
came back to hospital. and he went to the hospital. you nearly killed him. >> i don't know how i nearly killed him. you keep saying i nearly killed him. who is saying i did it? you keep saying, "you nearly killed him." "you nearly killed him." who is saying i killed him? who is saying i nearly killed him? >> i think i just did. >> you know what? it's like this -- i don't even remember half the [ bleep ] that happened that day. because when i came back, i got knocked out, too. he wasn't the only one that got knocked out. i got knocked out -- i'm more blacked out than knocked out, okay? all i remember is coming back and saying, what the [ bleep ] is going on around here, man? guys is everywhere. and i'm coming to. it's like when you wake up. i'm supposed to be your star graduate. okay. i'm supposed to be the one who you can say put his light on top of the christmas tree. he's going to shine. i'm always going to shine. i have the personality to shine. all i have to do is get my behavior in check, get my personality right, you know what i'm saying? i've got issues. [ bleep ] issues. >> you've been working so hard. you were on track here. and then something so brutal happens here. it doesn't fit right now. >> am i allowed a moment of relapse?
>> oh, a moment, yeah. >> how can anyone make a stabilized transition without some form of relapse? >> oh, absolutely, right. >> you will relapse. it's inevitable. it's inevitable. >> if you had slapped him in the head. even if you had punched him in the face or kicked him. >> what about me getting punched? what about me? what about [ bleep ] >> this is something completely different. >> this is extreme. >> this is extreme. >> it's like a blindside shot. how do you think i feel? how do you think i [ bleep ] feel? think in terms of me for a [ bleep ] minute and quit being so selfish. how do you think i feel? how do you think i feel getting kicked off a program that was doing me more than i was doing for myself? this program was bettering me. >> hopefully, you know, that's where you're at. this is where i'm at, okay? i'm at you were never really on board with the program. this was really about you trying to get to this guy. that's where i'm at. >> i don't even know this guy, man! >> okay. well, hopefully, as we keep talking, we'll come more closer to the truth.
>> he told you we have a history or something? >> he didn't tell me anything. >> where did you get that from? >> doesn't matter. we'll see what the next step is. you're waiting to be heard. if you get found guilty and they give you seg time you'll be back on idu. some day, we'll talk about this and it will make sense to both of us. right now, it just doesn't fit all together. but that's okay. take care of yourself. >> you too, matias. man, i didn't know it was going to get that heated, man. didn't know it was going to get that heated. i almost went there. things are a little bit different with me now. i'm no longer on rtu as a result of my excessive behavior, if you want to call it. i dropped the ball. i don't like it because i disappointed myself and i disappointed my supporters. i had a lot of people there in my corner, but because i somewhat relapsed, if that's what you want to call it, they're kind of like just playing with me right now. and they have every right to
because these people have given me something that no one has given me during the course of my incarceration, which would be a simple chance. >> coming up -- >> the atmosphere is really thick back there. the tension's really high. >> the news death row inmates dread the most. >> i'm not making any kind of long-range plans of any type about anything.
of course, i'm not making any kind of long-range plans of any type about anything. >> at indiana state prison, they call death row "x" row. life here can be monotonous as inmates spend much of the time working on appeals. but today something is different. >> how are you? i'm all right. this morning when i went and did my rounds on "x" row, wrinkles stopped me and told me that his last appeal -- it was his last hope -- got denied as of yesterday. he's got one more thing he's got to file, which he said will take about 30 days, and then he should probably be getting a date after that. >> a date? >> a date of execution. the atmosphere is really thick back there. tension's really high. >> how about wrinkles? how is he doing? >> he's covering it up. he was laughing and joking with me this morning right after he
told me. he's doing okay right now. you never know from minute to minute what kind of mood he's going to be in. he told me he was getting ready to be executed and then turned around and was joking with me. >> and now? >> and now he's a little angry, upset. >> i had two children when i got in here. they were 13 and 7. now they're 27 and 22. i haven't seen them very often in the intervening years. that's a very hard thing for anybody to have to go through, much less for them. also, after so many years, your friends and family tend to start to forget about you and bury you before you're even dead. and that's not a very easy thing to have to -- for them or yourself to have to deal with. >> it's going to be hard. because it's going to be my first execution i've had to deal with since i've been on the row. when you're not working on the row and you don't know these
people, it's not really a big deal. but once you get to know them a little bit, it's hard. it's hard to know that i'll come in one day, and it will be all over with. >> wrinkles' last hope is a long shot, an appeal to the u.s. supreme court. at moments like this, other "x" row inmates are forced to think about their own mortality. benjamin richie is here for the murder of a police officer. >> i've seen guys come by on their last walk to be executed. it affected me. but nothing affected me like seeing someone that you care about, like a best friend, walk by your cell and then leave to go be executed. what do you say to a guy that's going to -- what do you say? i didn't know what to say. you know, you eat together every day. you work out. you work together. work on your case. it's just something i don't want to go through again. that's why i'm trying to get off death row. i've been here for ten executions. i don't want to see no more.
>> well, it's just hard. regardless of what they've done, they're still human beings. it's just hard. >> one of the things that we're trying to get through the legislature here is a change in the law that says that the death row inmates have to be housed here at the prison. if they were housed somewhere else and the executions took here, it would be a little easier on staff because they wouldn't have these long 12, 15, 20-year relationships with the person, and now they're involved with taking their life. that's one of those things we're hopeful may be considered in the legislature is to maybe house them somewhere else other than where they're executed. >> two days after receiving the news about his appeal, wrinkles spoke to our producer. >> so what are your thoughts about all of this? >> i -- first, you're a little
-- i mean even though you're expecting it, it's a little bit of a surprise. even, like i said, even though you expected it. but other than that, it is what it is. i mean, there really is no explaining it. >> what does it mean for you and your situation? >> 90 days for filing and maybe a month or two after that. >> until? >> the execution date. it's like having cancer and know you only have so long to live. you start getting rid of possessions. make sure you got a will written up. stuff like that. you know? that's what i've done. i mean, i've already had that before but tying up loose ends. >> anything you want to say to anybody? >> not at this time, no. >> no? nothing? >> no. >> though wrinkles had little to say during the interview, he did share his feelings on a personal camera. prison officials had allowed our producer to leave with him.
he recorded this a week prior to getting the news about this appeal. >> i tried to reach out to some family members that i've either hurt personally or feel hurt by what i did, and i've tried to repair things with them just in case the worst comes to the worst. and, hopefully, it will make a difference in the end. but i'm also not arrogant and bold enough to think that just because i die the world's going to stop. it's not. i'm not even a drop of water in the ocean