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tv   Melissa Harris- Perry  MSNBC  November 30, 2014 7:00am-9:01am PST

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given new hope. during the subaru "share the love" event, subaru owners feel it, too. because when you take home a new subaru, we donate 250 dollars to helping those in need. we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. this morning my question, will ray rice play in the nfl again? plus, the new film "she's beautiful when she's angry" and why fdr moved thanksgiving. but first, why we can't feel black men's pain. good morning i'm melissa
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harr harris-perry. pain, agony, suffering hurt. our nation is full of pain, pain that's been giving voice most recently in ferguson, missouri. the specific pain of parents who have lost a child, and now know that the police officer who killed him will not face criminal charges, the pain of communities who feel helpless in the face of a system that brings so little justice, a system that seems to supply fresh trama weekly adding names to the list of unarmed boys and men whose death is justified by whom to have been afreud of them, oscar, trayvon, john, michael, tamier. this is where i want to pause for a minute, this issue of black men's pain because americans long have had difficulty in understanding, acknowledging and having empathy for the pain of black men. for much of our history, black men have been represented as
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mergeless brutes, brett tors that can strike without warning at any moment. at the turn of the 20th century, george t. winston the president of north carolina college offing a arts wrote for the leading academic journal annals for political and social since where it was a simpler times of slavery and explained since emancipation when a knock is heard at a door a white woman shutters with nameless horror. the black brute is lurking in the dark, a beast crazed with lust. a mad bull or tiger could scarcely be more brutal. since the adlation of slavery, crimes too horrible to describe have be committed every day, every month against the helpless women and children of the white race, crimes unknown in livedry.
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incapable of pain himself bent on inflecting pain on others has been a reoccurring theme in much of american popular culture and politics since the 1915 birth of a nation which was screened by president woodro wilson to the unstoppable clubber lane whose defeat by the every man rocky balboa is read as a less than subtle regan era fantasy about the feeding, threatening black men. in this nation, when we look at black men and boys, our vision is structured by these powerful offed reproduced myths about black men that are deeply embedded in the collective history and psyche. our history is relevant to our lives and our politics in this moment. we were reminded of this truth as recently as six years ago by our current president when he spoke out in philadelphia about the issue of race in america.
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>> understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. as william faulk near wrote the past isn't dead and buried, in fact, it isn't past. we do not need to recite the history of racial injustice in this country but need to remind ourselves so many of the disparities that exist between the african american community and the larger american community today can be traced directly to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and jim crow. >> the past is not even past. take the recent study in the british journal of developmental psychology showing around seven years of age, american children believe that black kids feel less pain than their white counter parts. in the past decade, multiple studies convincingly showed that
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doctors offer black patients less pain management care because they believe the pain of black patients is simply less intense, let's excruciating than the pain of white patients. during the trial of george zimmerman, jason silverstein of said the racial empathy gap helps explain disparities in everything from pain management to the criminal justice system. the problem is the pain isn't even felt. the pain isn't even felt which brings us back to this week in ferguson, missouri and the question of black men, their bodies and pain because this week we learned that when he testified before the grand jury, officer darren wilson said this about 18-year-old michael brown. and then after he did that, he, michael brown, looked up at me and had the most intense aggressive face.
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the only way i can describe it, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked, and we learned when he described shooting the unarmed teenager, now former ferguson police officer darren wilson, he resigned on saturday, told the grand jury this. at this point it looked like he was almost bulking up to run through the shots, like it was making him mad that i'm shooting him. and perhaps, because in his mind he was looking at an angry demon who could run through bullets, perhaps that is why wilson said this in an interview to abc news. >> it sounds like you don't think you were responsible. >> i did my job that day. >> and the saint louis grand jury agreed by returning no indictment they asserted that no crime happened the day officer wilson took michael brown's life. it's a decision that unleashed more pain, more hurt that is
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characterized as violent, destructive and requiring policing because as kalil mohamed wrote with such evidence in hand that black men are 21 times as likely to be killed by law enforcement as white men as an lice in a report, today's movement like the one before it might fail to overcome deeply entrenched fears of black criminality without a shift in white public opinion and a new model for law enforcement. here to sort through this pain. sol civil rights attorney jasmine ran, associate professor and author of "trust in black america, race discrimination and politics" and editor in chief of "global grind" and president of the center for policing equity,
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phillip ateva go arka goff. i want to start with you. you found black boys are seen as older and less innocent and prompt a less essential childhood than white peers the same age and that's related to police violence towards black children and i'm wondering given that we know that 12-year-old tamir rice was assumed to be 20 years old by the police officers that shot him, i'm wondering if you think that is related to the research that you have done there. >> well, it's entirely possible. you know, this came out, the report you're talking about in the context of two other studies that also found that black children are seen as generally less innocent, that the parole officers and the people taking care of them see them as more adult-like at an earlier time. during that beautiful intro you
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talked about black men's pain, i wonder why we're not also talking about protecting black childhood per se because so many of these people who are getting shot and killed are still babies themselves. >> i want to read you one more thing that was said by officer wilson in relationship to his experience, and in it he basically said that he felt like that when he had this interaction with brown at the car, he felt like -- he said the only way i can describe it is i felt like a five-year-old holding on to hulk hogan. he said this despite the fact wilson and brown are the same size. let me ask this, do you think this is actually sincere? in the sense that his subjective experience of brown was as this cable of holding holik hogan?
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>> we need to think about and investigate this moment as both his sincerity and lack of is possible. it's entirely possible he felt very small, he felt, you know, less than and in fact, many of the spaces where he speaks in the grand jury testimony, he talks as if his very manhood is at stake. i don't know what i can say orr on air but he claims mr. brown said you're too much of a black to shoot me. >> right. >> so i think that it's entirely possible, and we would do ourselves a disservice simply to assume that the entire problem rests within the character of officer wilson. as you put out beautifully in the introduction, this is something culturery curated and lives inside the minds of everybody paying attention to american culture regardless of our personal believes so his sincerity is not so much the question as to how to get that
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out of our collective conshoens. >> hold for me. don't go away because dorian, i want to come to you. in our collective psyche, it's ours to say, in fact, african americans also often reflect these biases about black bodies, about black pain and part of where i get stuck is yes, this has this disproportion et effect when connected with explicit white racism but not exclusively about white ris saysacism. it's devaluation of blackness. >> devaluation of blackness, dehumanization of blackness and darren wilson can use the word it looked like a deman, not he. absolutely. i think phil is right to bring in the masculinity angle here in terms of the masculinity threat because i don't think it matters if you're a white man or black man or brown man who is a police officer in that context because black and brown cops beat up and
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kill young black kids, too. >> yeah. >> and we're not talking about that at the same level. this is not just about white police officers but about something that happens in police training beyond that thin blue line that we have to have a broader discussion of, but yes, the recent examples of these cases michael brown, rice, et cetera, these happen to be white cops, so we're focused on that. it doesn't -- race in this sense, it maters in terms of -- >> it's the race of the victim of the -- >> that's right. >> so let me come to you in part on this because you and i just had a conversation you were an african american majors study and you're an attorney now and we talked about body cameras and whether or not it would make a difference if the grand jury seen what happened between michael brown and officer wilson and at first, i thought of course it would make a difference but then i wonder if everyone is impacted by this belief, might they, too, have
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seen this super predator or can wilson get away with this narrative because there isn't something else to see? >> when we're discussing the language and that's important. when i hear words like him describing michael brown as the hulk, that's a superhuman description. demon is subhuman description but never once does he see him as just a human being. when we take this back to the law and apply this to the law, is that a reasonable belief for an officer? did the officer behave reasonably? when you use words like demon are saying you view black skin as a sin and that's not a reasonable belief for any human to hold. when we talk about the collective consciousness of our nation, darren wilson is not alone in thinking those things. so i think whether or not we have body cameras, it's a great step, but we have to change the collective consciousness and the way we allow people to speak about black and brown men in our nation. >> michael, that feels to me
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like the harder task. it is as much as i think officer wilson should be held accountable, as much as the grand jury has decided that he should not be, it is still easier to simply say michael brown -- excuse me, officer wilson is a bad guy and if we get all the officer wilsons off the forces it will be fine. if we have a far more complicated embedded racial angst we need to have a story about this. >> speaking of stories, as we sat around our thanksgiving tables with our families, we have these conversations and white people in general accept thesesier because authorities are on our side and we trust them so they accept the story line of the story. so it becomes truth and good meaning white people, not talking about racist, good meaning people, people in my family believe it's very difficult for them to understand and the president spoke about it and you spoke about it, the
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history of the racial dispari disparities of wealth and health and education. it's difficult for us to understand those things and then to think about the interaction between a police officer and a young black man begins with get the f on the sidewalk. that's not protecting and serving. that is confrontational and that does not happen in white communities. it's very difficult for us to understand that relationship between a police officer and a young black man, which is happening across this country. >> phillip, let me come back to you briefly. part of what you do is to try to train officers. where do you have success? what does help to work? >> it has to be an everything and approach. you can't go with reducing bias. there are ways to do that. you have to give them history lessons and sociology lessons but have to make legible to them what is legible to the rest of america which is that they are when having contact with people in these communities not a black
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officer or white officer, not officer wilson, they are frequently the biggest manifestation of the state. i want to circle back around to something dorian said. when people have these engagements, what it feels like to these communitys is that my government, the state is not able to see me as a human being, and when officers can understand that's the impact of just simple discourtesy sometimes, then they start to get that they have a different power than just the badge and the gun, they have a power to define in the streets in a different way than they ever imagined. >> what the state is saying in boston, massachusetts, we come back and i want the tell you what darren wilson said was the hardest thing he ever had to do.
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announced the decision of the st. louis grand jury to seek no indictment of the darren wilson in the slaying of unarmed teen michael brown, prosecutor bob mcculloch to have sympathy. >> you need to keep in mind these grand jurors poured their hearts and souls into this process. you know, their term was scheduled to end in early september, and they gave up their lives, they put their lives on holdings put their families on hold. they put everything on hold so that they could come in and do their civic duty and it was emotional for them. >> and as officer resigned on sat night, he offered a statement that read in part quote, i have been told that my continued employment may put the residents and police officers in the city of ferguson at risk, which is a circumstance i cannot allow.
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it was my hope to continue in police work but the safety of other police officers and the community are paramount importance to me. it's my hope my rest sis nation will allow the community to heal and he said his resignation was quote the hardest thing i ever had to do, ever. shayla, we have been asked to have empathy for the jurors, grand jurors, which by the way did their civic duty. i get that. when he says they gave up their life. i keep thinking do you not hear what you're saying in the context of an 18-year-old boy being dead? >> the absolute utter disregard for his death, right? that meant that black lives matter, that it's not just a matter of what the person decided that day but in the larger picture of things, this moment and all that happens surrounding ferguson, what does it mean for our society?
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how do people in the community move forward and believe that the police department outside of wilson should have some respect for them, trust in what they would do to protect them? i cannot imagine what that must feel like but also in thinking about that, how do we move beyond that to consider what institutions may bear on how people think about government and how government represents them and what that means for if we were to overturn what happened in ferguson and thinking about well, what could justice really mean in having a department that can be trusted? do we now need another police department because you have a community that then has to entrust calling 911 to assist them when all this is happening, they see there is a disparity. >> yeah. >> how can we move beyond the local level? does that mean for the state and importantly, we must ask the question as far as federal government and the role it must play in addressing this situation. >> it seems clear to me at this
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point the kind of last space is the possibility of a doj civil rights charge, but and tell me if i'm wrong, my impression is the doj, that if you get charged by the doj you should be worried because they going to win. they don't really lose cases, right? part of what this grand jury process does is to demonstrate to the department of justice just precisely how difficult it might be to be able to get a conviction and there by bring civil rights charges which leads me to question how ruptured will this relationship mean. >> i'm not particularly worried about the grand jury's failure to indictment because of the manner in which i believe the evidence was submitted by the prosecutor, what i did not -- >> who acted like a defense attorney. >> who acted like a defense attorney. they were misinformed about the
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status of the law, we have the clip where we had to remove the description of the ability to use force. we had to say there is this thing called the united states supreme court and the jurors asked about and it they said don't worry about it. this isn't law school. i'm not concerned about the ability to take a civil rights case and you're absolutely right, if they take this case and they will do it with the intention to win. >> they just rarely, there was a time 40 years ago when you saw that kind of prosecution but you just, at this point, they don't bring on unless they think they can win. >> also another power. the department of justice gets $400 million a year to police departments. that can come with conditions, body cameras, training on implicit and explicit biases. they can take a stance and say if we give you this money, you must do x, y and z. >> which is more powerful than any given individual case.
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>> absolutely. >> and it's actually been what the federal government has been unwilling to do really since the 1970s in terms of putting basically ever since the transportation money and the drinking age raising to 21, they have been unwilling to put those conditions. >> which is the difficult part of the protesters in ferguson is because they don't have the support network that they think they should have in terms of the federal government, supreme court. in terms of a democratic governor or prosecutor and county executive. the support is not there. so the outside voices chave to come in and shine the light who are doing the work or say these are the solutions, this is how we get to a solution and they are there and have to highlight them. >> i am worried and i have a big worry about the civil rights case by the justice department and here is why. it's actually based on shayla's research. black americans trust the government more than local and the federal government has to come in to win some kind of
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justice for black people. >> civil war, yeah. >> i'm worried our expectations are very high, the justice department will take the case and win and i want to dampen those expectations because the other thing is what michael said, they can do a review of the department and have some mandates attached to funding that could change the policing practices even if we don't get justice for mike brown from the department of justice. there are other things that are systemic and reforms can be put in place. i want our hopes to be put in that but i worry we're now going to -- >> it's got to be one thing. >> it has to be one thing and i don't know if that will happen. >> stick with us, my letter of the week is next. it's our slow simmered vegetables and tender white meat chicken. apology accepted. i'm watching you soup people. make it progresso or make it yourself
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we waited because for many this case became a test whether in fact this country at this moment black lives matter. but while we waited for this temperature reading on the state of american racial justice, one woman waited for far more personal reason. michael brown was her son. she wanted to know if the man who killed him would be held accountable. she first stood defiant and then as she learned there would be no indictment. she cried out with anguish that rendered her mute, paralyzed, torn with loss and disbelief. that's why my letter this week goes to michael brown's mother, lesl leslie. it's melissa and like you i'm the mother of black children. like so many other black moms, i wanted to say something to comfort you this week but here i standstill unsure of what to say. for months we watched you
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navigate the treacherous agonizing and now all too familiar role of a grieving black mother seeking justice for your slain child, along with sabrina fulton for george zimmerman who killed her son trayvon and the undaunted lucia mcbath we felt some sense of fairness for the retrial of michael dun who killed her son, jordan. along with the determined pendleton we were stunned by the senseless motivations of gang rivalry by the alleged killers of her daughter and this week along with you we were broken as we learned that a grand jury found in crime in the killing of your son michael. i cannot speak for all black mothers, but i want you to know that many of us felt your anguish through the screen, felt it penetrate our core and break our hearts as we bore witness to your shock and torment.
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i want you to know your son's life did matter and no decision by any jury anywhere can ever clang that truth. i know what officer wilson said about michael, what he looked like, what he did, how he had no choice but to shoot and kill michael. but i beg you to hold onto the things you know about michael that none of us can ever know, the precious weight of his baby self-when he snuggled into your arms as an infant. the thrill and pride he had when he learned to ride a bike, the ad rebellion and the struggle to finish high school, the dreams he numbear toured of making mus. far too many saw michael's body for hours after his death. a death and aftermath that have been tragically and painfully public, but to be a black mother in america has never been an
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entirely vie visit matter going all the way back to slavery when enslaved black women were expected to understand they weren't giving birth to children but instead producing units for sale. black mothers were forced to pass along their enslaved status to their infants ensuring bonn age was the first inher tense black mothers gave black children in america but black mothers found a way to love and nurture their children and no matter how public his death, it is you, mama who ushered michael into this world, who heard his first cries, whisper the first prayer of gratitude for his life and dreamed the first great dream for him and you have a right to love him and honor and remember and to grieve and to seek justice and no matter what happens next, we know it's you, not us who has endured the
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greatest loss. we are truly, truly sorry for all that you have lost. sincerely, melissa. why do i take metamucil everyday? because it helps me skip the bad stuff. i'm good. that's what i like to call, the meta effect. 4-in-1 multi-health metamucil now clinically proven to help you feel less hungry between meals. experience the meta effect with our new multi-health wellness line. i love my meta health bars.
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(vo)rescued.ed. protected. given new hope. during the subaru "share the love" event, subaru owners feel it, too. because when you take home a new subaru,
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we donate 250 dollars to helping those in need. we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. president obama rarely spoke publicly about the shooting death of michael brown during the august days when ferguson was first had grief and protest. on monday, following the announcement that a grand jury decided not to indict officer darwin wilson the president took to the national enter waves almost immediately and this is what he said. >> the fact is in too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. some of this is the result of legacy of racial discrimination
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in this country and this is tragic because nobody needs good policing more than poor communities with higher crime rates. >> as protests continue through the country and many call for action by the department of justice, what now can heal this deep divide between police and black communities. was it odd to hear the president say nobody needs policing more than poor communities? it was -- i understood what he was saying but also felt strangestrang strangestrang strangely discore tablet? >> i felt it was a little tone deaf because everyone deserves protection and safety and we pay into that right as citizens to be protected and have public safety but wall street has committed more crimes on a daily basis than quote unquote poor communities, so let's see some policing downtown as opposed to focused on low levels crimes, do you have marijuana in your pockets, right? >> it's what we think of what
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counts as a crime. >> what counts as a crime and how do we refine that and a broader sense of policing for real crimes that affect people's lives. >> shay la your research is around trust and the ways communities of color often distrust those closest to them, their front line interactions with the government but will have a stronger sense of justice from the federal government but do you have insights on what -- i wonder if we're asking the wrong question about building trust. you need to trust us as opposed to being trust worthy. >> one thing i'm thinking about is if we were to entertain perhaps a commission that would speak with the community and actually hear what the community concerns are and then make recommendations based on what the community said, i mean, we have activists who clearly want to be heard. well, let's actually make an attempt to hear them and know what they would like differently in their communities. >> right now we have the naacp leading a multi-day march to the
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governor's home and it is -- you know, you said earlier, here is a democratic governor and i mean whatever level of tone deafness the president may have demonstrated, nothing compared to the level we've seen from governor nixon over and over again and it feels like have you thought about sitting down, listening, responding? >> i think this issue, i'm so glad you wrote the letter to leslie because i think we always have to focus this is about a family. >> yeah. >> and a mother and father and stepfather and stepmother that lost and brothers and sisters that lost a loved one and let us not use their loss for a greater conversation about what is next because there will never be a what is next for them. if we can't take a step back and as phil pointed out in his initial comments, there are structural systems in place that we know about that got us to this place and if you want to talk about a trust conversation that police and the community, let us break down the war on drugs. let's end the obsession with mass incarceration. there is reason we have militarization of the police because of the war on drugs.
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the reason you throw flash grenades, a young boy is hit in the head and losing, almost loses his eye in wisconsin because the war on drugs. if we have a conversation on trust, let us stop a war against black and brown america then let us have a conversation. let us not have a conversation in the middle of a war and say everyone calm down, we're still going to shoot. 14 teenagers have been shot and killed by police officers since mike brown who were unarmed. >> yeah. >> so let us not call a peace treaty when we're still killing people. >> the "salt lake city tribune" pointed out in fact, there have been more, nearly 300 homicides, stat crime statistics and medical examiner records and show that use of force by the police is the second most common circumstance under which utah people kill each other. the most dangerous person is intimate partner violence, the next is police.
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>> the next is lowest level of police officers killed in the line of duty in 50 years. it's not even one of the top ten most dangerous ok paxs ccupati america. it's the lowest level of police depths last year. >> dorian and jasmine will be back in the next hour. still to come this morning, ray rice's story has a major development and jenae rice speaks out to tell hers. but first, what fdr did to mess with thanksgiving and how it made everybody mad. ♪ ♪ ♪
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sore throat, stuffy head, power through your day medicine. for three years in american history, thanksgiving traditionally held on the last thursday of november was celebrated one week earlier thanks to president franklin roosevelt. he bumped up the holiday spot by executive proclamation in 1939. the president's intention was to increase the holiday shopping window before the move
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thanksgiving would have fallen on november 30th leaving a 24 shopping days between thanksgiving and christmas. president roosevelt hoped that extra seven days would provide a real boost to the economy but that turkey day slide did not go over well. andrew with what may have seemed like a good government policy clashed with what turned out to be deeply engrained feelings among many americans but when thanksgiving should be celebrated. the controversy lasted another two years before president roosevelt decided to change it back. in 1941 a new law made thanksgiving the fourth thursday in november. coming up, holiday shopping and the mixed messages from the current state of the economy. nos to stretch around the earth 230 times. each brita filter can replace 300 of those.
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defying expectations. earlier this week there was news of impressive gdp growth in the third quarter a 3.9% increase in real gdp slower than last quarter but an upward revision of the third quarter report and viewed as a good sign of economic health and recovery. government and special spending are up as are exports, gas prices, free falling. and plenty of people packed shopping malls this weekend to spend their earnings on black friday deals. things appear to be an upswing. consumer confidence took a tumble falling to 88.7 after october's seven-year high of 94.5. the lowest reading since june. experts attribute the decline to people feeling less optimistic about the future of the short term. the seemingly contradict indicator is after the holiday shopping season when retailers
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expect to escape the red. what should we make of it? with me is dorian warren and senior fellow at the center on budget and policy priorities, the chief economist to vice president joe biden. jared, help me out. why do you think there is a bit of a mismatch between these economic indicators and consumer confidence? >> well, i actually don't think it's that much of a head scratcher when you think about the issue of income or wage inequality that's so prominent for decades and very much rearing its head over the current economic recovery and by the way, when you say economic recovery to a lot of people, they wonder what you're talking about. >> right. >> and that's because while we've seen gdp growth much like you described, paychecks have been pretty stagnant. the rate of average growth is around 2% and that's nominal.
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so that means flat buying power in terms of hourly wages. there is positive developments, the decline in gas prices mean that a given wage will go further and of course, there is more jobs, more hours worked but if the only way you can get ahead is by less inflation or more work, that just doesn't feel that great to a lot of people. >> so help me then to understand this because, you know, art of what we have been told really since the 1980s is that when profits grow when the kind of job creators have more money, they will reinvest in labor cause by raising salaries or hiring more workers, but that does not seem to be what happened in this economic recovery with very little difference to workers. >> right, we may have been told that but i for one, have been telling a very different story since around the 19 80s when we seen a split in the space you
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described. we had productivity growing a pace and accelerating for periods over the decades you just mentioned but median or typical family income, median earnings have been largely flat so you've had this real split between productivity growth and kind of the macro going one way and micro going the other. it has a lot to do with numerous developments over the years, the absence of full employment in the job market, declining unions, more globalization. many of these factors have really helped contribute to this wedge between overall economic growth and broadly shared prosperi prosperity. >> hold on for a second, i want to come out to dorian here. we saw the november elections where people went to the polls where there were minimum wage ballot initiatives and voted for the minimum wage with their left hand and right hand voted for republicans who will be the folks lest likely to institute such a minimum wage increase. i guess i'm a little surprised
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at the inability still of american voters to connect those things. >> american voters and americans know the economic pain they are feeling, one out of three americans is in poverty or near. wages have been flat as jared said but we see something going on, business owners are saying we won't oppose an increase because they understand that if workers had more money in their pockets, there is more demand for service and products so their sales won't be flat as think have been for many retailers in the service sector but here is another, a heavy hour. the other good news is black friday we saw protesters around black lives matter as well as protesters and strikers at walmart converging in the same places at the same store. so workers are actually taking action and saying no, we deserve and demand more as corporate america is doing the best it's done in 50 years. >> let me come back to you on this, it was an interesting sort of out growth of the timing of
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the grand jury decision of non-indictment. was it leading to this opportunity for kind of consumer-based protest action, but i guess, it also leads me to a broader question of how sustainable is our economy in the long term when it relies on individuals doing what is bad for them spending what they can to do something good for the collective, which is grow the economy. is there some other model for the mass economy here? >> it's a great question and ties into part of the answer to the riddle that you and dorian were just talking about. i actually think that the question you just asked gets to the heart of this thing we've been talking about. there are many institutions failing average americans these days, and you've been talking about one of them for the bulk of the show so far, but there is also economic institutions failing people and one reason they are not going to the polling is because other than
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the minimum wage to a small part of the problem, i don't think our officials are actually giving people much of an option in terms of what will reconnect their economic lives to the growing recovery. i think if you actually talked about things like more direct job creation, if the economy isn't going to create enough jobs, we have to do so through the public sector. if we talked about really taking a run at the full employment problem, particularly for minorities in different communities, if we talked about helping more disadvantaged people get access to higher education, we have to reduce our trade deficit to give the man talk te -- manufacturers a better edge. they challenge too much of the dominant economics and that's a reason why i think we've had this persistent disconnect and no, i don't think it's particularly sustainable and we're talking about some of the unsustainability on the show today. >> thank you to jared bernstein
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in washington d.c. i wonder if you will make that pitch -- >> i'm writing a book called "the reconnection agenda" which is all about that. >> uh-huh, never know. dorian is sticking around. still to come, ray rice could return to the nfl and jenae rice tells her story. there is more at the top of the hour. that energy. energy to take the road less traveled. which means it's timeson for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. hurry into the sign-then- drive event and get a five-hundred- dollar black friday bonus
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on select new volkswagen models. black friday bonus offer ends december 1st.
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you get used to food odors you think it smells fine, but your guests think it smells like this... ( sound effects ) febreze air effects works instantly to eliminate odors you've gone noseblind to. it smells so much better! so you and your guests can breathe happy. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. ray rice won his appeal of an indefinite suspension leveed against him following the release of a surveillance tape when rice was recorded punching his then fiancee jenae. he was appealing the decision since the baltimore ravins first determi terminated his contract when the tape was released and with friday's reinstatement, he cannican
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immediately begin playing for any team. it was the second penalty issued against rice by roger goodell who before the release of the elevator video had originally given rice a two-game suspension, and a fine of one week's salary. in her decision on the reinstatement, former u.s. district judge barbara s. jones says that the nfl had based the increase penalty on what it called a quote starkly different sequence of events between what happened on the videotape and what they say rice told them at a meeting in june. and that commissioner goodell claimed he was misled when he first disciplined rice but judge jones was not having it and said there were no new facts which the commissioner would base his increased suspicion. after considering the evidence, she reechlached this conclusion. i'm not persuaded that rice misled the nfl and find the
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indefinite suspension was an abuse of description and must be vacated. in a grievance filed against the ravins by the player's association will determine whether rice will be entitled to back pay for game checks he missed during his suspension and for his future compensation and career in the league, it's a waiting game to see which team might take a chance on the nfl's most infamous agent. joining me now nbc contributor and political science and international public affairs and jasmine ran a civil rights attorney and michael denzel smith for the and joining us from washington sports editor for the nation magazine and author of "brazil's dance with the devil, the world cup, olympics and fight for democracy." dave, you wrote this week that the role of roger goodell as abuser can be seen with utter
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clarity. explain that to us. >> absolutely. i mean, with this decision, roger goodell revealed himself to be basically the sports version of ferguson cop prosecutor bob mcculloch, a cover up artist that cares about defending the shield, in this case not the shield of the police but the nfl without caring a bit about any concept of justice or fairness. this is a devastating ruling by judge jones. i only wish there was someone to put bob mcculloch under oath so he could speak about the decisions he made in going forward to prosecute or not prosecute darren wilson but the fact longer goodell had to go under oath, he is revealed as a liar and i really hope there is a zealous states prosecutor that brings perjury charges against roger goodell going forward because he chose to double down on the story of what he knew and when he knew it, the same story that had the entire sports media including a lot of nfl scoffing
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and he doubled down on that under oath and i really do hope he has to pay some sort of legal penalty for doing that. >> dave, this is tough for people undoubtedly because i think that there is, you know, in the case that you're trying to make a comparison here with ferguson, i think a lot of people who are at least are on the side of mr. brown and brown's family feel like there is a good guy and bad guy. >> yeah. >> and this is a lot less clear in the sense it's tough to be the folks who are like yes, we're down for ray rice getting to come back to play. so pull that apart a little bit because you wrote goodell created a new victimizing system that takes power away from survivors how to seize control and map out plans to be safe and end cycles of abuse and the power rests with goodell to end the public lies of those suspected of abuse. i want to be clear that you're not like, you know, rooting for immanent partner violence here. >> no, quite the opposite. part of it is how do we confront
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and stop intimate partner violence. when you spoke to people that do the work and are in the trenches fighting around domestic and intimate partner violence, what they will tell you is the role of abuser and the role of quote unquote savior are two sides of the same coin. what you seen the nfl do is play both those roles at the same time. they flipped from being an organization that enableds and ignores rules says we'll swoop down and with the hammer smash any player, any career, anybody who dares bring bad public relations on the nfl by being part of situation of domestic violence without realizing that those both flow from the same well of toxic masculinity that takes power away from the most important person in this scenario and that is the survivor. and the fact that the -- i have to tell you this quick story. i was speaking to somebody at the nfl's office who was mad at
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the article and they said don't you realize we assembled an army of people ready to fight come me domestic violence? that's the problem. this isn't about armies and wars and saviors swooping in. this is not white man burden time to stop domestic violence. you have to have agency of the survivor themselves or you're going to trap people in cycles of violence. >> stick with us, dave, don't go away. michael, i want to ask you, at least from espn today, at least four teams have looked into signing ray rice, one of them my team, the new orleans saints. >> uh-huh. >> so what happens if you're the team that signs ray rice? does it go away and ultimately the question is how he performs on the field? difference does it make? >> i'm glad nobody is pretending to care about black women in this situation, roger goodell got caught trying to care about a black woman. he was worried about the public aspect of it, the bottom line.
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he did not care about jenae rice at all and continued to not care about jenae rice at all, not sat down with jenae rice and wondered what do you need in this situation. >> he sat down with her but she was sitting next to ray rice. >> exactly. he's not concerned what she needs and putting the focus on her and her physical safety. so, yeah, we talked a lot about black men's pain in the early part of the show but i think about jenae rice and then i think about marissa alexander and these two very different stories of domestic violence. but two black women trying to assert their shelves and their safety and protect their lives and then i think about the source of that. they have been hit and abused by black men and it's frustrating to then watch and go to ferguson and see all of these black women on the front lines fighting for the liberation and safety and
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lives of black men and note that, you know, there are black men out there saying what is wrong with ray? was the problem? i don't -- she hit him. what is -- it's just very frustrating and i'm to the point where i'm like black men owe a debt to black women. black men owe black women reparations. we're in this untenable situation where black women are constantly showing up for us and we're not doing the same. >> i think it's dangerous to put it solely in that context because i think domestic violence isn't a black, white, brown issue and i understand your comments but we have to understand that there are a lot of white men out there that abuse people, as well. when we talk about domestic violence, i'm kind of disgusting with the way the nfl dealt with this. domestic is not a football, no pun intended. it's not something we completely ignore and use for ratings when
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we find it add venn day gas for us. there is no excuse in the book for what ray rice did in jenae but i want to ensure if this is where we go for a nation and hold men accountable for accounting acts of domestic violence that needs to be app applied equally. >> right, so we end up with this problem, dave, where on the one hand i think we have this very clear articulation for michael there about the gender question here, about the racial gender question, the difficulty we're facing because jenae rice and other women victimized by black men recognize that exists for black men, the demon predator talking about our pain can contribute making the men we love more vulnerable. >> we need to be explicit. it always needs to be said is
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that codomestic violence knows color and has no boundaries. the rates of domestic violence in the nfl are not any greater than the society as a whole. the nfl has a coverup problem much more than it has an intimate partner of violence problem. and the fact that they coverup these incidents is something that makes the problems worse and worse and worse and the representation when you have someone like ray rice that the media puts forward as the face instead of saying kurt busch who is a domestic abuser and intimate partner abuser who is a white nascar driver, nobody is asking white athletes, hey, is it the music he listens to? are his jeans too tight? >> stick with us, dave, because in the next block is what you asked us to do, putting jenae rice at the center of the story.
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the same day ray rice was reinstated, his wife was cast into the national spotlight as the face of domestic violence told her story in her own words. friday espn published her account of what happen that night in the elevator and everything that transpired since, as told to espn host jamil hill. jenae says she watched the first video of ray pulling her out of the video while unconscious, but she says she has not, will not watch the second tape. this is what she remembers of the incident. we got into the elevator and what happened inside is still foggy to me.
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the only thing i know and i can't even say i remember because i only know from what ray has told me is that i slapped him again and that he hit me. i remember nothing else from inside the elevator. in another interview with the nbc's "today show" that will air tomorrow and tuesday in two parts, jenae explains her reaction immediately after police question the couple that night. >> i was furious. we came home and we didn't talk the entire ride. well, i didn't speak to him the entire ride home. he tried to talk to me. i didn't want to hear anything. i just knew he hit me, and i was completely over it. i was done, didn't want to hear anything. i just didn't even want to entertain it, entertain him, anything that he had to say, any explanation. of course, in the back of my mind and my heart i knew our relationship wouldn't be over because i know that this isn't us and it's not him. >> jenae told espn that shortly after their arrest, she watched
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the first video showing the aftermath of her husband's assault and confronted him about what she says she saw. i asked him why he left me on the floor like that. i asked him how he felt when he saw i was unconscious. he told me he was in shock. i asked what happened when we got out of the elevator. he said he was terrified because security there was. i asked him how he felt seeing me like that. he said i was thinking, what did i just did? a relationship that began when she was 14 and ray rice was 15 and the living through the second type and rice says i still find it hard to accept being called a victim. i know there are so many different opinions out there about me that i'm weak, making excuses and covering up abuse and she concludes with what she wishes the public would understand about her marriage today. i hope when people read this they realize we're real. i want people to realize we love each other and how far we've
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come. it's hard to read the interview and hear her speak because she doesn't fit in some neat little box that we want to so frequently put domestic survivors in. >> i'm happy she has agency here. these are her words, heart felt. they are her truth. we should, i think, believe them and i think they point to the complexity of this. michael was talking earlier about black men. i think this is an issue for all men. it is in many ways a crisis of masculinity in the sense of all couples have complex. what tools are we teaching young men in particular for how to deal with those conflicts and how do we teach men of all races violence is always unacceptable but here are other tools for you when you have conflict with your partner. i think there is a broader story. i mean, dave can talk about the football nfl stuff but this is a cultural conversation we have to
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have about masculinity in america. >> i want to ask you a question, and it will be pure speculation. i want to take jenae rice seriously when she says this never happened, this isn't like him and they knew each other since they were 14 and 15 years old. there is an ohio state player missing now and the letter he left has to do with concussions. i'm in no way making excuses but seeking to understand and wondering if we take jenae rice seriously, this is a change in behavior and maybe it's not but if it is, could it in any way be connected to his actual role as a football player? maybe it's the masculinity being taught to hit as a solution, maybe there is also something physiological happening here. >> yeah, right up here, this is the frontal lobe of the brain, the more abuse that frontal lobe takes, the more we know it's connected to chronic traumatic
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swelling of the brain that can lead to sense of temper and impatience and anger. of course, as we know across the board, there are mild mannered sigh c psychiatrists who are abusers. i spoke to a neurologist and he said look, you take a lot of abuse to the front of the head, it's not the sort of thing it's like a light switch that turns you to take part in intimate partner violence but it doesn't help. i interviewed a lot of women who are the wives and in some cases widows of nfl players who are connected with abuse and tell very similar stories about things like frustration, migraine headaches, the inability to remember things. things we associate with post concussion syndromes and that does not make you an abuser but it doesn't help. if i could say one thing, i want to give thanks to hill.
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he interviews jenae rice with ray rice by herself. the idea you put an abuser and survivor in the same room to beg for his job in front of his desk. he should have been fired as soon as that went public. when jamel's interview, gave jenae final edit on the story so it could be her story. >> three hours worth of interview, followups and interestingly, what you're saying, dave, she actually says we knew we had to meet with commissioner roger goodell on june 16th. we were nervous and scared because we felt like we were going to the principal's office, right? if you feel like you're going to the principal's office, you're not in that moment asking for everything you need. there is one other piece i want to ask you to respond to. she says that she doesn't want to watch the second video when it's released and says she was over this. i didn't need the visual. how was seeing it going to help
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me? i knew it would bring me back there. when ray watched it, i asked him not to look at it again. i knew it was the devil trying to bring us back. i'm prepared to believe you but i need you to be able to confront it to see it and still make the choice. >> and the first thing i want to say is to jenae rice. you are not weak. >> no. >> hearing her describe herself as weak or fearing that she'll be perceived as weak is troublesome for me whether she leaves or stays and saying the video, knowing he spit on her as a person who grew up in a household of domestic violence, this is not the first time to me jenae has been hit. that's a significant issue. her fear of watching the video, it's her fear of seeing someone she loves so deeply disrespecting her in such a major way. she's right. why did he leave her on the
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floor? why was his first concern about himself? for all the people listening out there, when we hear jenae describe our love is real, this is not what real love looks like. real love looks self-less and it doesn't find people behave income ways that are violent there is no justification for what he did but we cannot continue to revictimize jenae rice because this is not solely her problem to deal with. this is a problem as a nation to deal with. >> i want to under line again what he says he had the fear of security and her having the fear of going in front of goodell, so domestic violence is not race. and yet, there does seem to be this racial element in that moment, that fear of like in this moment what i could be subjected to as a black man in this moment and you feel that sense of her covering for him of her protecting him, her being the front line for him. >> she assumes the role of protector for ray rice and black men everywhere essentially in saying i'm not going to ruin this life of this rich young black man.
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>> yeah. >> and i just -- i'm glad jenae is telling her story but what you hear in there so much is someone that's experienced, someone who experienced domestic violence and ask how do we support jenae and get to a point where no one has to tell that story. it gets back to teaching masculinity. >> you know, i just want black women to put themselves at the center of their own story. thank you for joining us on a holiday weekend and still to come this morning, the image of black fathers. it's getting a make over but first, nerd land goes to the movies.
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clean. clear. brita water. nothing is better. [coughing] dave, i'm sorry to interrupt... i gotta take a sick day tomorrow. dads don't take sick days, dads take nyquil. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep with a cold, medicine. [coughing] hey amanda, sorry to bother you, but i gotta take a sick day. moms don't take sick days, moms take dayquil. the non drowsy, coughing, aching, fever, sore throat, stuffy head, power through your day medicine. nerd land, i have a question, how many times have you watched the teaser for "star wars, the force awakens"? how many time haves you tweeted about it, posted about it or talked about it with your jedi pals? it's been a big response for a
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sliver of a peak of a movie that doesn't open until december of next year. what if i told you there is a new movie opening this december that feature as small band of rebels taking on an overwhelming empire-like oppress sore and using something not unlike the force, the film is called she's beautiful and she's angry and it takes viewers through some of the incredible but often forgotten moments of the women's movement in the 1960s and 70s. here is a teaser. ♪ ♪ ♪ it's the women's power >> the status quo is being challenged. today it's still a man's world. >> i started getting word from people i knew in the movement by then and as i heard about these things, i was able to go out and shoot them. >> they startled wall street one day by an exhibition in which roles were reversed. >> you're so beautiful, all of
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them. these men, those sex objects. >> it was reported in the newspaper that there was a woman who worked in the wall street area. she was very well endowed and men would wait for her outside the wall street train station and they would pinch her, make sucking noises at her and i thought this is pretty disgusting. >> oh, wow. look at the legs on that one. >> so i organized what i rather grand recalled the first national oog l men. >> those pants bring out your best. >> how do you like that hat over there? >> all the very clever events helped the women's movement a lot. >> keep your best leg forward, sweetie. >> now it doesn't my taste to do the kind of demonstrations and things that some of them did,
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but i was always sort of gleeful about it underneath and thought go for it. >> look at that long hair. >> oh, it's a hippy on wall street. we're trying to point out what it feels like to be whistled at, put down sexually every time we talk down the street. >> is love out? is sex out? unless man changes, it will be very soon. >> up next, the director of she's beautiful when she's angry. y whole grains, so 1/3 of this commercial is dedicated to what you could do with all that energy. angry. she's beautiful when she' angry. "she's beautiful when she angry. " energy to take the road less traveled. you know i tried one of those but the roll just disappeared. bounty is 2x more absorbent so one roll lasts longer. bounty. the long lasting picker upper
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(vo)rescued.ed. protected. given new hope. during the subaru "share the love" event, subaru owners feel it, too. because when you take home a new subaru, we donate 250 dollars to helping those in need. we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. we were angry. maybe the anger is what carried us through and made us fearless. >> i'm disheartened by the situation but at the same time i'm angry and one of the things i learned decades ago when we're that angry about something that bad, we take action against it. >> that was political activist
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alice wolfson and arthur who have been vital voices in the wo women's liberation movement. the film takes viewers through equal pay for women, freedom from sexual violence and vital and civil human rights. "she's beautiful when she's angry" provides a visual tour of the evolution of the women's move the from the 1966 founding of the national organization for women and the 1968 development, the stick black women's committee and the group called the women's international terrorist conspiracy from hell a group that encouraged members to dress as witches and put a hex on the new york stock exchange. >> part of the hex went knowledge is power through which you control our mind, our spit rid our bodies our soul. hex. >> all of these stories for
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historical content for today's push for gender equality while reminding viewers of an important lesson. >> the bitter lesson is that no victories are permanent. all our rights are like that. they are only as good as we maintain them. >> joining the table the director and co-producer of "she's beautiful when she's angry." i loved it. i watched it with my daughter. why this film now? we get the sense of it there because no win, no rights are permanent but is there something specific about this moment that is valuable for us to visit this moment? >> it's valuable because of the huge push back on reproductive rights and because that was a goal, they knew women had to have control over their own bodies and you see it come up in the film repeatedly. but i cannot claim any great brilliance for having the film come out now because it was
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worked on for many, many years. it was a hard film to fund and make. our timing is just very fortunate. >> i have to admit during the first half hour or so of the film, i watched it with skepticism. it was very much the betty frudan part and all of a sudden, here come in the complicating factors. let me play a little piece about african american women and the complexity of the movement. >> it was very difficult for middle class white women to have any conception about what was going on in communities of color and the differences could have been in conversation but if there isn't an acre knowledgement and the voice of one is used as the voice of all you have a problem. >> the choice not to shy away. >> there was. you know, it was a very complicated movement, and one of
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the things that we got great advice from an academic about how to handle those issues is she said think of them as parareal strands because whether you think of the women's movement, it grew up the same time as the black power movement and many women in this film, probably more than half of the women were active in the civil rights movement so it's not that they were ignorant, it was a complicated time and one of the mistakes i think they all acre knowledge at this point, autoof this glee and thrill we're getting together and we'll change the world, at the same time they kind of romanticized we were the same. >> using language that was marriage is slavery, right? that has a different residence, right, for people who are in fact descended from america. one more piece i want to play because when i saw it, my jaw dropped and it was a reminder to me of the value of film because we hear about kind of anti lgbt,
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but this was a reminder. let's take a look here. >> maybe some here today that will be homosexual in the future. there are a lot of girls here and maybe some that will turn lesbian. we don't know. they can be anywhere. they can be judges, lawyers, we ought to know, we've arrested all of them. >> dorian. you're watching it like wait a minute, for me, the value of that was a reminder this was not that long ago. >> right. >> there is an adult standing there saying yes, we arrest people for being gay askand reminder no wonder there is such a backlash. this is living history. >> that was the norm and people didn't know anything and couldn't envision anything outside of that and when folks got angry, i love this point about anger, and use that anger to mobilize to change, not just
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attitudes but poll ceasicies, c. you see the complexity of that, problems of that but reminds you this is living history. that wasn't that long ago, statements like that. >> the other breakthrough is the person political and i feel like that connects back to what we were just talking about with jenae and ray rice. she's an individual person making a decision within her life but not just a personal decision. it is ultimately a political and social one. >> when i saw and actually watched the film last night and when i saw it, i just was astounded by my own level of ignorance because as a woman and civil rights attorney i was so ignore rant to my own history. i'm 30 years old now and i have grown up with such a relative level of freedom and never felt oppressed as a woman, i've never internalized that. to watch this living history, something that happened such a short time ago that laid this foundation for me to do the work i do today really humbled me and i was so grateful for the women
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that came before and laid that foundation. >> why, i mean, this is my mother's generation. i felt like i was seeing her in some of this. why have we lost so much of the memory of it for generation of women who benefitted so much from it? >> we're a country that doesn't do too great with history, period, as we know. >> amen. >> the particular problem is it's a history about women and i think the women eastside 's sid i believe that this history has been disrespected. >> uh-huh. >> and i don't think it would have been as difficult for us to make this film or fund this film if people held it in the regard it deserves, with its flaws like every movement has flaws but they achieve so much and they are not given -- there is an amnesia around it. when you see a guy walking down the street with a baby locked to his chest, please remember that's because of the women's movement. when you see the supreme court justices and women, it didn't happen by magic. all these women basically speaking up and saying these
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things are unequal and unfair. >> yeah, thank you so much for the film because it does the history and somehow is fun. there is a certain fun behind it. >> they were having fun. >> yes, i really do appreciate it. thank you to dorian warren and jasmine ran and -- [ laughter ] >> i'm hoping keeping that in check next week and also to mary door, the film opens in new york december 5th and los angeles december 12th. up next, the woman seeking to secede chuck hagel. ugh... ...heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.
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it was big news on monday when chuck hagel resigned from office after being encouraged by president obama to leave the post. almost immediately after the news broke, former under secretary of defense topped the speculation list of contenders
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for the office. her appointment would have broken the glass ceiling for women at the pentagon making her the nation's first woman to serve as secretary of defense. she has since taken her name out of the running for the job. but there is one young woman quite interested. she might not be old enough for secretary hagel's job just yet but determined to have it one day. msnbc went to interview 16-year-old harvard graduate and phd candidate eugene desilva who hopes one day to led the pentagon. here is her story in this msnbc original report. >> my dad says that before i could walk he was tieing his shoe laces and i noticed he was doing it, so i took them and sat there for hours and try to figure it out and finally figured out how to do it and before i would write i could type on the computer and at the age of nine i began high school. i've been doing those things
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from a very young age. i think a lot of people misinterpret what it means to be a child prod gee, because we have the intelligence to do something doesn't mean it's not difficult. >> at age 16, she has one goal to be the u.s. secretary of defense. she is already broken three world records and she was the youngest person to graduate from hard wavard university. today she's finishing a phd, writing and editing books and about to begin teaching a college course in terrorism. this comes natural to her but it's been far from easy. >> i face racism, sex discrimination and age discrimination. so as a female entering a field that's largely dominated by males, i have had to overcome adversity but then as a young person also trying to enter the field caused much more problems. >> she was featured in the media
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at 14 after becoming the youngest person to receive a bachelor's degree in intelligence. it should have been an exciting time but then came the internet backlash. >> my dad tells me not to read comments online. if i'm featured in the media but i happen to look at some comments and it is hurtful because it is so derogatory and so vicious. >> after her parents separated when she was five, it felt to her dad to warn his daughter that her background would make her a target. >> one individual said about that i would be married off and live with ethnic husband, too bad she was chosen to be a lawyer and not a brain surgeon. another comment, i hope she won't commit suicide from this pressure. >> as a dad, it makes me feel sad. if this is something to the parent it's okay the parent can take it but when they tell about the daughter when you read that then you feel upset about it. >> do you ever feel like talking back to these people saying, you
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know, you don't know me, you don't know what it's really like? >> no, in my mind i think i could say this to this or could reply in this way but i would rather focus on my studies than make these comments and waste time. >> it's not just internet trolls she has to deal with. she faces discrimination from peers. >> i was completing my graduate studies and happen to be in a classroom where i was the on woman. more and more men started attacking me, even when they were putting forth those same ideas and if i would put fourth any idea, they would come and belittle my comments. >> she tries to ignore the haters and live a normal life. she's hanging with friends, working out, dying her hair wild colors on instagram and knows boys exist. >> i didn't go to prom but i think i had a meaningful childhood.
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i traveled the world, spent time with friends. we will do random things like go to walmart and walk around. we do the normal things teenagers do. >> people may not understand or support her, but that won't shake her passion. how do you know at 16 what your end goal is? don't you feel like that might change? >> i know within me i have such a passion for intelligence and politics, i know i really want to help this country. i know this is where i'm meant to be. >> you can see more of her story at msn don't leave nasty comments. up next, we're making images of black fatherhood. [ male announcer ] take zzzquil and sleep like...
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in the weeks of waiting for an indictment decision by the st. louis grand jury, one man was a constant presence. michael brown sr. >> no matter what the grand jury decides, i do not want my son's death to be in vain. i want it to lead to incredible
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change, positive change. change that makes the st. louis region better for everyone. >> and just ahead of the thanksgiving holiday, there he was present in the community where his son was shot and killed handing out turkeys. and since the grand jury's decision, michael brown sr. has been present at events like friday night's vigil and remembrance of his son in south florida's miami garden standing together with the parents of trayvon martin. michael brown sr. has been present countering the false narrative, often repeated a stereotype of the absent black father. a stereotype that a foe to l project we first learned about. you'll find it at the you'll see the images he's captured of black fathers doing what black fathers do. they push strollers, they help with homework. they tickle babies' bellies.
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and as the photo project of marcus franklin makes clear, they're present in their children's lives. i'm so pleased to welcome now the writer and photographer marcus franklin, creator of the fatherhood project. what were your goals? the images are just gorgeous. >> thank you. thank you. and thank you for having me. one of the goals is to put more accurate images of every day black fatherhood in the media. a lot of people have told me in reaction to the photos that they don't see a lot of these kinds of images and mainstream media. and that, you know, they want to see more of them. so to put these kind of images out there in the media and to dispel some of those myths about black fatherhood. >> and sometimes the seeing is even more powerful than the telling. i think that's part of -- you can tell a story, you can write
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it in a narrative. my dad did this. but suddenly when you see that picture, it is, there's -- it touches you in a particular place. >> well, i think images are powerful. the written word is powerful, too. but images. when you see, when you can see yourself reflected in a particular image, i think it has resonance with people. and, again, going back to people who have responded and in regards to the project, i think what resinates with them is they see themselves. they see their sons. they see their brothers. they see their husbands. in these photographs. >> i was thinking about that. i have two daughters, one who is nearly 13 and one who is 9 months. and there's a picture of my father. her grandfather with the baby when they first met. oh, that's my -- there's my dad with the baby. and, you know, i've seen my father with babies before. but being able to capture just
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that expression. and i thought, oh, yeah, there's something so valuable about seeing that. and just this morning, my mother-in-law sent a picture of the baby kissing my husband to wake him up, right? and i thought, yeah. we now can -- we now have this to show to our girls. >> right. >> this is what fatherhood was. >> right. >> this is how your dad was loving you. >> well, i think all of us have. and when i say all of us, many african-americans. we have these kind of photos in our photo albums. but the issue is, we have them in our photo albums. but, again, you don't see them. you don't see black men, black fathers and ordinary every day mundane situations with their kids in mainstream media. and, again, i think that's why the photos resinate so much with a lot of people they don't see images very often in media. >> i love the language of mundane. parenting is a lot of regular.
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your photo album might be filled with the holidays and birthdays. it's changing diapers and pushing the stroller. i love the pictures, they gave us a way to close the show. >> marcus franklin, and that's our show for today. thanks to all of you at home for watching. i'll be back next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. i hope you'll be back with us. now right now, it's time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> well, officer darren wilson resigns, everyone. the officer explains in a letter why he's calling it quits. what does this mean for the protests. a staffer for a republican congressman apologizes after lecturing the obama daughters about what not to wear. plus, fear factor, we're going to have a preview of the mother of all roller coasters and it is coming to the u.s. looks pretty fun. don't go anywhere. i'll be right back.
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the long road home. millions in travel mode at this hour. what might they encounter in the air and on the highways besides plenty of other people? the end of the road. darren wilson says his career as an officer is over. we'll tell you how people in ferguson are interpreting the resignation letter. holiday sales are no longer for big screen tvs and toys. gop apology. one republican staffer says she's sorry for the harsh words about the first daughter she posted on her facebook page. we'll get reaction later. hey there, everyone, it's high noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west, welcome to weekends with alex witt. the end of the thanksgiving weekend means crowded highways, train stations and airports. check out this map from flight radar it shows the


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