tv Lockup Raw MSNBC May 2, 2015 2:00am-2:31am PDT
due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. >> msnbc takes you behind the walls of america's most notorious prisons. into a world of chaos and danger. now, the scenes you've never seen. "lockup: raw." ♪ nestled at the base of majestic glaciers, the small coastal town of seward, alaska is known for more than just breathtaking natural beauty. it's also home to the spring creek correctional facility, alaska's only maximum security
prison. it's here that we encountered carl abel, one of the most memorable killers ever profiled on "lockup." it didn't take long for him to make clear his opinions of some of his fellow inmates. >> all of these inmates can say what they want to say. they're punks. people in control know they're punks. abul first came to spring creek in 2003, after he was convicted of murdering a co-worker. >> i caved his head in. caved it in totally. i think the biggest fragment of bone they found was a size of a half dollar. i probably got a little out of hand later on. i kept hanging out and beating on him some more. there was -- it was -- are you really interested in the gory stuff? i was interested in how the decomposition would be. it was pretty nasty.
it was kind of twisted there. >> the raw interview footage goes on to reveal perhaps the most grisly aspect of abuhl's crime. >> your sentence is what? >> 70 years. i got six months, too, for cruelty to animals. >> for what? >> cruelty to animals. >> what happened? >> i nuked a guy's cat that he had. the cat was chewing on him so i nuked the cat. i actually intended to kill the cat but i guess i didn't do a good enough job. >> how do you nuke a cat? >> stuck him in the microwave and turned it on. you know, 2 1/2 minutes wasn't long enough. so -- but i didn't do it just for kicks. i did it because it was crewing on the dead guy. so. >> three years later, in august 2004, abuhl killed again. this time, the victim was his cell mate.
>> the guy was doing life for killing his mom, which is disgusting. he was bragging about that. i killed mom and i'm getting out in 20 years. blah, blah, blah. okay. i sat and listened to this garbage. and i have to listen to this garbage and i can't tell because if you tell you're a [ bleep ] rat. and then someone call me a [ bleep ] rat. hey, dude, you know what? [ bleep ] i'll put you in the ground. now what? >> while most of his fellow inmates infuriate him, abuhl wanted our female producer to know that he has nothing but respect for women and children. >> i have zero tolerance for certain behaviors in other men. they disrespect a woman, they try to take you know, sexually. i'm going to put them in the ground. there's certain people, certain criteria, rapos, child molesters, you can't cure them. there's no cure with them. so you kill them. that's how you deal with the problem. there's no problem then. abuhl went on to give us a
graphic account how he murdered his cell mate. >> he was talking about how he was going to strangle this lady. so i tore up a sheet and wrapped it around his head, and i said, nope, you ain't doing nothing. you go say hi to mommy. >> how did he die? >> he kept on breathing. i thought i was doing it wrong, because i didn't have the appropriate garrote, a wire garrote, you can actually decapitate someone if you yank on it, i tried to decapitate him. i think it took about five minutes of him flailing around and i finally got on his neck, brought it up and hemorrhaged all over the place. that's when he stopped. then i shoved a handkerchief down his throat to shut him down. i'm the first guy that killed a man on this yard, i guess. they're still punks running their mouth around here. >> moments after abuhl was placed back in the cell, he was in conflict with the inmate in the neighboring cell.
>> this is what they call cell warriors. they get at each other so they just try to stir each other up. >> [ bleep ] [ bleep ] [ bleep ] >> abuhl is expected to serve out the rest of his sentence, if not his life, in the highly restrictive single-person cells of spring creek's max unit. he left our crew with these words. >> i try to think positive. there's always things getting worse. things can get worse. i hope they don't. >> when we traveled to river bend maximum security institution in tennessee, we
encountered a young inmate who was also driven to kill and his story was absolutely chilling. >> i murdered my aunt with a butcher knife. i put on a hockey mask, brown overalls and brown boots. they said i had bottled up anger. i was mad at my mom all my life for the way she treat me. i figured i'd kill her sister. i didn't want to kill my mom. i figure if i kill her sister, it would slowly kill her mentally and emotionally. >> luis ramon was 15 years old at the time of the murder. when we met him six years later he told our producer he relates with two notorious and fictional movie killers. >> i believe i become a killer like michael meyers and jason vorhees. on friday the 13th. i was just fascinated with the way they worked. i heard voices. like jason, one of the characters, they told me like how to kill people and when to do it. the devil -- i was possessed by
the devil for six years. been a witness for 17. >> how about nowadays? >> i think there's a demon that lives outside my window right now. he lives outside my window, he's a demon. >> most of the time he sings to me and hums. he aggravates me sometimes and i can't sleep. >> when our producer noticed his scarred arms, she learned that sometimes, ramon directs violence at himself, as well. >> what are these cars on your arm? >> i cut my vein open about three times. twice with a spoon and once with a razor blade, just to watch the blood come out. i do it sometimes just for the hell of it. it took 15 years of bottled anger to do what i did. if it's bottled up again, i might end up doing something like that again. >> he's not going to get his chance any time soon. ramon isn't eligible for parole until 2057. >> if i go back in time, i would escape when i had the chance or at least took out 30 people
before i got -- had a little fun while i was out there. >> our interview ended with ramon's chilling outlook on his life. >> i figured that's why i was put on earth for to be a serial killer. like that's my job. if i do get a chance to get out, maybe i'll do that. since i don't got no chance to get out, i can't carry out my plan. >> which is? >> kill as many people as i can before i die. >> i've been told i'm pretty hard core. >> next, on "lockup: raw." >> i start to turn off the camera, slowly as i inch my way backwards out of the cell. >> a "lockup" producer has a close call with one of the most dangerous inmates in kentucky. >> took a knife, and i stabbed him with it three or four times. and then i butchered him with it.
at virtually every prison we profile, we've met inmates who have spent the majority of their lives behind bars, and are never getting out. in many cases, these lifers, committed their crimes as teenagers. and with each passing decade, have slowly adjusted to the strict rules and rigorous demands of prison life. still, there are those inmates like alex bennett, at the kentucky state penitentiary, who don't always agree with, or abide by, the rules. >> i'm a person that's been in the joint all of my life. i've been told i'm pretty hard core. and i need a certain type of environment. >> now, you got something you want to say to me now?
we can get it on national tv here. >> everything about alex's mannerisms, his appearance, and the words that he spoke, said -- convict. alex just embodied that. >> bennett was 54 years old when we met him and had spent 33 of those years behind bars for armed robbery, kidnapping, and murder. >> the system today isn't like the system that i came into 36 years ago. the system today has the majority of their inmates programmed to do what they're told when they're told to do it. and so they get to the point where they expect that from everybody. well, there's still a few old dogs around who like to do things their own way. >> bennett's way of doing things, however, has had horrifying results.
after adapting to life in a single person cell here, he was transferred to a lower security prison in 1998. he had more privileges there, but also had to share a cell. that's when things began to go very wrong. >> i'm not going to live with child molesters. i'm not going to live with punks. i'm not going to live with rats. i need my privacy and that's the most important thing to me. and i was determined to get that, and i got it. >> after his request to return to a single maximum security cell at kentucky state was denied, bennett took matters in his own hands, and at the expense of his new cell mate. >> i took a knife, and i stabbed him with it, three or four times until he was dead. and then i butchered him with it. i cut him up into little pieces, because, like i told the warden down there, that's -- you know,
this is what i left you, now you'll give me a transfer, or one of you all will be next. and i meant what i said. i have a choice, because i have nothing to lose, you see my point? i don't have nothing to lose. >> usually, i hang out right here. this is my spot. i used to stay over there, but the child killers took it over, and they can have it. i don't argue with nobody about spots. i feel like the whole joint belongs to me since i killed to get here to get it. a whole lot of guys think that i'm an insane, psycho pathic, you know, murderer. they don't know anything about me. >> but later, bennett revealed he did care what the "lockup" audience would think of him. >> deputy warden nancy dune took me to meet alex in his cell so i could get a few extra shots of him. he was taking a long pull off a cigarette. i could start to see the gears turning in alex's mind a little
bit. and he said to me, why do you need all this footage. i just don't get it. why do you need all this footage about me? >> it don't make a whole lot of sense to me. >> what's that? >> just sitting here looking goofy. >> he was upset. and it was like a switch. he went from being terribly cooperative, to not being happy about this situation, and there was a really, really discernible shift in his demeanor. >> you know what i think -- >> i'll just film you, whatever you want to do. i just want to get a shot of you in your cell. >> i'm thinking you all are going through all these prisons, talking to all these people such as myself, you know. people who's never getting out. this thing ain't recording is it? >> i start to turn off the camera, and i stand up, and i begin reasoning with alex, slowly as i inch my way
backwards towards nancy out of the cell. alex, it's important we tell this story. we want to hear your voice. i don't know if i was getting through to alex, but i do know that i was getting closer to the entrance of that cell. we turned and we started walking down the cell tier and we get to the entrance of the cell block, and nancy is white. and she says to me, i don't know if you realize how lucky you are right now. >> hale might have been lucky, and he made it out of kentucky state knowing, alex bennett never will, but bennett has accepted that. >> i never think about the outside world anymore. never, ever. i don't dream about the outside world. i don't dream about the outside. i am 100% prison. i'm 100%. this is my life. coming up on "lockup: raw." a prolific prison killer
reflects on his crimes on the inside. >> i stabbed him 36 times. i wanted to put so many holes in him that there was no chance that he could survive. so, what brings you to jersey? well, geico's the #1 auto insurer in new jersey, new york, and connecticut. so i just came by to say, "thanks." #1, huh? that's great. here you go. a little token of appreciation. oh, that's... that's... that's great... now i'd say you probably need a large. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.
these are places where the inmates are really kind of the true-life hannibal lecters. they require extra shirt, shackles, three, four correctional officers at a time. it really puts our crews on a one-on-one basis with some of the most dangerous inmates in america. and in many cases the interview process has to happen through glass. >> such was the case when the "lockup" production team first encountered 38-year-old steven hugueley at the brushy mountain correctional complex in eastern tennessee. when we met him, hugueley had already been in prison for more than 20 years and was scheduled
to be executed the following month. >> i shot my mother and threw her off a bridge. we had had problems for years, and it just finally reached the end. a girl that i had a date with called there, and when i answered the phone, my mother, she come out of her bedroom and started coming down the hallway, and she said -- screamed, is that another one of them little whores calling here, and it was just like i snapped. i told the girl that i had a date with, i said, i'll be out there to get you in a little bit. i said i'm fixing to kill this bitch. i hung up the phone and i went and got a rifle and shot her. then i carried her, dumped her in the river and went on my day. i felt a great deal of contempt toward her, because of the way she belittled my father, and was
constantly putting him down, and after a few years of that, it just made me to where i really didn't feel anything toward her. >> throughout the hour-long interview, hugueley rarely displayed emotion, except when recalling how his mother broke the news of his father's death when he was only 12 years old. >> she hung up the phone, she turned around and said ronny's dead, they found him dead in his car. he committed suicide. i'll put you on the bus and send you to michigan for the funeral, and that was it. and that made me hate her, because, from that day forward, i knew i was going to kill her, eventually. >> hugueley was sentenced to life in prison for killing his mother. but it wouldn't be the last time he'd commit murder. five years later, while incarcerated at a different
prison, he stabbed an inmate 67 times after the man and two friends allegedly threatened him. >> all three of them come up to my cell, which was a single cell, and i slaughtered him, and went after them two, and they took off running and hid. but i was going to kill them all three. >> after receiving an additional life sentence for killing the inmate, 13 years later hugueley murdered again. in this unedited footage, hugueley describes how and why he killed a prison counselor. >> the plan was kill him, get the death penalty, use the state of tennessee's lethal injection as a means of suicide, since i didn't have the guts to do it myself, and then in january, i killed him. and the first thing i did, is said i want the death penalty, i want to be executed. and so here we are.
>> how did you kill him? >> i stabbed him 36 times. i wanted to put so many holes in him that there was no chance that he could survive. my philosophy always has been, if you put enough holes in him, they can't plug them all and chances are they're going to die. i've seen people stabbed 17, 18 times and get up and walk away. >> that's really incredibly graphic, and horrible. >> i agree. >> it's horrible. i mean -- >> i agree. i've never lost a minute of sleep over anything i've ever done. if somebody who commits premeditated first degree murder tells you they have remorse, they are a liar. it's impossible to commit premeditated first degree murder and turn around and say you have remorse for it. how are you going to be remorseful about something you intended to do?
>> hugueley was sentenced to death for killing the counselor and was transferred to tennessee's death row located at the river bend maximum security institution, more than 100 miles away. "lockup" cameras were there as hugueley left brushy mountain. >> see you later. days after this footage was shot, hugueley reinstated his appeal of the death sentence, because the prison would not grant him a contact visit with his daughter. he was granted a stay of execution and returned to brushy mountain.