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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  June 4, 2015 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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>> the 2016 republican field has its first todd aiken moment. why democrats are pouncing on scott walker. the call for a special prosecutor to investigate jeb bush's not quite a campaign campaign. a new democrat joins the field and we have the first interview, new details on an alleged terror attack thwarted in boston. horrifying numbers out this week from some of america's biggest cities. >> debunking the so called baltimore effect when all in starts right now. the republican party just had its first todd aiken moment of the campaign. scott walker announced he intends to sign a 20 week abortion ban now moving through the state legislature even if that bill makes no exceptions for pregnancies resulting in rape or incest.
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>> most people that are concerned about that, it's in the initial months. in this case, it's an unborn life, it's an unborn child i'm prepared to sign it. >> walker did not say how he knows, most women become pregnant due to a rape or incest are most concerned about what to do for the initial months of the pregnancy. those comments come less than a week after walker defended wisconsin law that requires women seeking an abortion to undergo a mandatory ultrasound. >> the media tried to make that sound like that was a crazy idea. most people i talk to, i find people all the time get out their iphone and show me a picture of their grandkid's ultrasound and how lovely they are. that's a lovely thing. we still have their first ultrasound picture, it's a cool
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thing out there. >> the republican party already has an up hill battle. the gender gap in 2012 was the largest in the history of the gallop poll. after catastrophic gaffes, the gop has spent the past few years trying to repair the damage. watching a program to recruit female candidates and tutoring republican congressmen in how to run against women without being offensive. this time around, the democrats are likely to end up with a nominee who performs pretty well among female voters, republicans have a deep bench of over a dozen prudential candidates, is a woman carly fiorina. we showed you this chart with the percentage of women serving in the house and senate divided by party. it's pretty much even until 1990, at which point the number of democratic women shoots up and republicans fall way behind.
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when i talked yesterday with senator barbara boxer, one of 14 democratic women in the senate, i asked her what she made of that chart. >> i think what we've seen happen in the republican party over time is they've changed dramatically, they used to be for the equal rights amendment. they used to be for equal pay for equal work, they used to be prochoice. i remember when i was involved early on in my career. probably before you were born in planned parenthood and these other groups, republicans were leading the way, and they changed dramatically, now we have a party that does not reflect the dreams, hopes, aspirations of our daughters. >> a senator points out. this is more than just a rhetorical shift. like the 20 week abortion ban, scott walker says he'll sign, which not only prohibits exceptions for rape and incest, it would also allow the father to sue for emotional distress if he disagrees with the woman's
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decision to terminate her pregnancy regardless of whether the man in question is in a relationship with the woman. joining me now, senator tammy baldwin. senator, your reaction to the governor of your state's comments today about how a woman feels about her pregnancy that results from rape? >> this is scott walker's todd aiken moment, i could not believe that our governor in a few short words showed how deeply out of touch he is with the women of wisconsin and the women getting ultrasoundses. >> could say he was taken out of corn text or talking about issues that are emotionally loaded and fraught and, you know, it wasn't a full speech on that.
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these are just words you're attacking defense. >> you know, governor walker even when i served with him in the state legislature did not believe that there should be any exception for rape, for incest, for health or life of the mother with regard to abortion. and he hasn't changed over these jeers. i think that he really is out of touch with the reality of women across wisconsin, especially those who have suffered the horror of rape or incest. and i think he is part of what seems to be a larger strategy to try to pass laws that curtail women's reproductive freedom and rights that try to appeal back the roe versus wade decision which is the law of the land.
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>> if it is the case that he's out of step in wisconsin, how is it someone who knowing full well what it is to manage elections in the state 3 times in 4 years. >> the issues that voters focus most on in these last few years has been jobs and the economy and the discussion has been pretty much focused off of -- the issues we're talking about today. it's unfortunate, the more and more people who know what scott walker believes, his policies are really dangerous in this arena, i think that that would have an impact. but unfortunately, they haven't gotten as much attention i think in his gubernatorial elections as they really needed to be.
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and we're paying for that. he has signed into law a number of restrictions just like we're seeing in other states across the country law after law who had nothing to do with a woman's health, but to address safe and legal abortion. >> he'll sign, basically in the mainstream center where the republican party is on this issue. 20 week ban, no exception for rape or incest. that is not something that's anomolous among modern republican politicians. >> scott walkers views are clearly more extreme than any republican president in recent times. much more extreme than president george w. bush with regard to the issues of having exceptions
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that deal with the health and the life of the mother. and the issues of exceptions for rape victims and incest. >> senator tammy baldwin of wisconsin, great pleasure, thank you. >> thank you. wedge issues like gay marriage or ones that are a fairly reliable vote getter, the latest polls bring bad news. according to a recent gallop survey, americans have shifted to the left since the early 2000s on various moral issues, including same sex relationships, stem cell procedures. many find themselves pro choice rather than pro life for the first time in years. mary cheney, the openly gay daughter of the former vice president arguing, it's time the republican party leaders to embrace marriage equality. no matter how much a consultant
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class or donor class warns about social issues some of them can't seem to help themselves. the latest example comes from mike huckabee whose statement about trans people. >> for those who do not think we are under threat, simply recognize that the fact that we are now in city after sitting watching ordinances that say that your 7-year-old daughter if she goes into the restroom, cannot be offended and you can't be offended if she's greeted there by a 42-year-old man who feels more like a woman than he does a man. i wish someone had told me when i was in high school, i could have felt like a woman when it came time to take showers in pe. i think i would have found my feminine side and said, coach, i'd rather shower with the girls today.
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>> that's a dumb and offensive joke. >> and creepy. >> and creepy and dumb and offensive. even huckabee himself who you would think is someone who could pursue this social agenda. he recognizes it's bads. he recognizes a loser. nobody ever asked me about it, except the media, the only people that are stirred up about it. what people talk to me about is not a speech i made four months ago. people talk to me that lost their job. he wants -- even mike huckabee thinks social issues are a loose. >> he represents a core problem for the republican property. let's say there are 10 million hardcore evangelics in the country. 9.9 million of them are republicans. the republican party can't just kick that base to the curb and hope to win an election. if they completely ignore them and ignore that part of the three legged stool that is the
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republican party and only focus on tea party republicans that care more about getting rid of social programs and very wealthy republicans that just want tax cuts, they're going to lose because they need every vote they can get. they already do so poorly with women, they already do so poorly with minority women and nonwhite voters they need every vote they can get, they can't just say nothing. i think there is a hunger out in among part of the religious right who do feel abandoned. the culture wars were lost decades ago, this is just the insurgency. there are people who want to fight. they want someone to fight for them. huckabee can't not be that person. >> the wanting to fight is so on the money, and it relates to the walker comment. certainly, i saw the walker comment and yes it was in a parenthetical. it's like, hey, just shut up about that. honestly. don't talk about what a woman who has survived rape and is carrying her rapist's child inside her feels about that.
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just don't talk about it. he has to. and the reason he has to is because he is going to sign legislation that will force a woman to do that, because that same base you're talking about wants them to do that. >> scott walker is already being criticized by people in the anti-abortion community because that bill does not include a nonexempting for life of the mother. remember, there's a part of the anti-abortion movement that says a woman should be willing to die to give birth. shouldn't just be here -- compelled to die. made to die. i mean, there are hospitals that will not perform an abortion if a woman is on death's door. i think when someone like scott walker is speaking to these issues, signing a bill like that, they're not thinking about the victim of rape or insist, that's secondary to the prime directive of womanhood, which is to procreate a man's progeny, to give birth to a man's progeny no
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matter what. that's the only real purpose of a woman. and i think that kind of thoughtlessness to the people in that movement is not thoughtlessness at all. >> one of the things that i think about is, it's going to play out in interesting ways, particularly how hillary clinton has handled this, she and her campaign recognize the advantage to these issues. republicans are in a crouch about them. jeb bush who is a great moderate. he was -- terry schiavo was under jeb bush and was a kind of -- for a lot of people. a lot of people who aren't particularly political. was a low moment in the life of american culture wars, that he was on the wrong side of prosecuting. >> it was a light bulb moment for people who had been watching jeb bush for a long time thinking he's a moderate. the schiavo moment made a light bulk go off in people's heads. he's going to truck right with
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that far right. >> i think -- let's give him -- i will say give them the credit of being in good faith here. >> this is -- scott walker believes that. he's an evangelical. i think people focus on his anti-union politics. scott walker has always been an evangelical politician. and he am continue to be. accusations of illegality as jeb bush runs for president without running for president. plus, the latest democrat to run for president joins me live hours after announcing his candidacy. amid rampant speculation where the obama family may live post presidency. here's a little healthy advice. eat well live well, and take of what makes you you. right down to your skin with aveeno® aveeno® daily moisturizing lotion with the goodness of active naturals® oat
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i have a pitch for the president of the united states. rumors the first family may move to new york after the white house run rampant. today came my favorite suggestion ever. why the obama's should move to the bronx after they leave the
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white house. i endorse this idea, the bronx, the perfect home for any presidential family. plenty of neighborhoods offering the space and seclusion they would need, like the leafy confines of the neighborhood in riverdale, where my parents live to this day and would provide the obama's with nice parks, easy access to manhattan. think of moving to a borrow like the bronx, where the vast majority of residents are black or latino. he visited to launch the next phase of his my brother's keepers foundation. a borrow that puts you in close proximity to my mom's cooking. it's the perfect home for the obama's in 2017. i'm going to head up there with some old bronx friends to prove it.
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if i run, if i'm a candidate, and that decision is going to be decided real soon. my intention is to run on my record and my ideas, and run to try to win the presidency. not to make a point. >> former governor of florida jeb bush just yesterday in the economic summit of florida, if i run. now, to all of us in the media, and probably to anyone paying attention, he very much looks and acts like an actual presidential candidate. he slipped up and called himself a candidate briefly. >> i'm running for president in 2016, and the focus is going to be, how do you have a chance for
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more people to have success. >> he realized he screwed up, he put back in the if i run, just to make clear, i mean. indeed the law does allow to an extent testing the waters posture. here's why that is important. because until a person declares his or her actual candidacy, they are not limited by the number of legal restrictions, like the 2700 dollar limit on individual contributions, but much more significantly, the potential candidate, may coordinate with his super pack prior to becoming a candidate. bush has two political action committees. according to the new york times, bush could raise $100 million by the time they raise their first fund-raiser in july. for a candidate to avoid
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restrictions by not declaring his candidacy makes a mochrie of the law. that's why watchdog groups have called the justice department to appoint a special council to add jude indicate whether bush can claim he's not yet a candidate for president. joining me now. a watchdog group that's filed a number of complaints, paul, let's start off with the significance here, what real benefit accrues to someone who can basically set up a camping infrastructure and go around as everything but a candidate and not declare. why is that advantageous rather than declaring. >> the biggest advantage is that jeb bush and some others acting like jeb bush are evading the $2700 contribution limit. one construction to what you stated in the lead in, is that the $2700 candidate contribution kicks in as soon as someone
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starts exploring a run, as soon as they start engaging in what the federal commission calls testing the waters activity. the contribution limit is at stake here, as well as the disclosure requirements that kick in as soon as someone files the paperwork to become an actual candidate. >> in the old days, prior to the super pac air remark the reason you would form an exploratory committee and declare, is that you would have a legal vehicle that could accept checks, you don't need the legal vehicle of an exploratory committee or an actual campaign to accept checks. you set up these super packs. that's what's changed. >> well, jeb bush seems to think that he can set up a super pack, the campaign legal center's view, it's illegal for a candidate to set up a super pack, it's illegal for someone to bankroll to the tune of $100 million in unlimited contributions a super pack if
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and because that money is going to be spent in support of the candidate's. >> you think it violates current law if you haven't declared yet or you think it violates current law for a candidate. >> whether or not you're a candidate for legal purposes doesn't depend on whether or not you've declared. one of the things that makes you a candidate under the law, if you amass funds. funds that will ub used in support of your actual candidacy, that makes you a candidate under the law. orderless of whether you're willing to admit it or show up at the fec and file paperwork. >> the law has thought of this in some ways. i'm just exploring, the law says, if you're amassing funds in excess of what you're going to use to do that exploring, you have made yourself a candidate,
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clearly that's going to be the case with jeb bush. >> that's why we're urging the department of justice to launch an investigation. >> what will the consequences be of breaking the law. >> the federal election commission is mired in partisan deadlock and they haven't been doing their job, enforcing the law, we're hoping doj will get involved, doj hasn't done much enforcement of this area of law in recent decades either. >> this is the craziest thing about this campaign. not only is it happening under this completely unchartered territory in terms of what campaign finance law actually is, both in terms of the constitutional juris prudence, no one is enforcing the law, you can't run riot through the streets and no one's going to come and put the handcuffs on you. >> that's right, and i think that lack of enforcement is precisely why individuals like jeb bush and others think they can get away with this.
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>> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we're going to tease our interview tonight with paul ryan. there's a brand new democratic candidate for president, and he'll join me live next. ♪ take me in, into your darkest hour ♪ ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ yeah! yeah. so, that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled. and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great. oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive.
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i enjoy challenges, and certainly we have many facing america. today i'm formally entering the race for the democratic nomination for president.
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>> we must deliberately and carefully extricate ourselves from expensive wars. just think, of how better this money could be spent. and the there were four, four people running for democratic nomination of the united states. lincoln chaffey, hillary clinton, martin o'malley and senator bernie sanders, as senator, lincoln chaffey was the only republican senator to vote against the iraq war. he was elected as a republican, and became a democrat while in office. today he suggesting a rethinking of our positions. let's start with the foreign policy vision you laid out, it really did seem to be a kind of
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robust peace agenda, extricating from war -- increasing or improving diplomatic relationships with some countries with have agreements with. what do you think we should be doing in the middle east, what do you want to see done with regard to isis in iraq, should we be withdrawing the troops we have there and stop the bombing for instance? >> as you said, i'm proposing a new, different approach internationally and i like to say a new american century, it's different from the approach that was conducted under the bush/cheney administration, that was a our way or the highway approach. i said let's take that approach, rip it up and go completely different, we're going to tell you the truth, respect international agreements and work together to solve some of
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these crisis we have around the world. talking to the neighbors in the region and then others how best we can deal with some of these problems in the middle east and north africa. >> we are currently bombing isis, that is a policy of the united states government, if you were president, would you stop doing that? >> i'd learn what's happening. what the neighbors and others around the world international partners want us to be doing. i don't think bombing has ever helped in so many ways around the world. and so what europeans want us to do the russians want us to do, what those neighbors in the region, the saudis, the israelis, the jordanians how we can guest conduct ourselves in the neighborhood, that's what i would do. >> the rub of it is, they want us to do different things. some of them want us to bomb isis, and some of them want us to stop bombing isis.
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>> who does and who doesn't. >> what's that? >> that's right. we're getting so many different points of view, because so many different interest groups in that area. as a result of the mistake of going in there to begin with. that's really one of the motivators for why i'm running. the front-runner in the democratic nomination supported the war in iraq, and has continued as secretary of state to have that same unilateral muscular approach to the world which i think is a mistake, and the reason we're talking about some of these challenges, we made those mistakes in the past. i think i agree with you in the abstract and sort of principle but it does strike me this is the centerpiece of the reason you're running, there are a fwunch of specific policies on the table right now, about how we're going to interface with that region, people are going to expect a candidate to have an opinion on. let's talk about the iran deal. are you in favor of the iran
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deal, as far as you know, the details that came out in the framework? >> yes, i am in favor of the dialogue taking place, that's how the soviet union broke up and the cold war ended, dialogue and interaction, that's always a good thing. that's how it started in china, exchanging ping-pong teams and what happened with china. coming to agreements, and we conduct business together. the weapons are put down. >> i couldn't help but notice your announcement was not in your home state of rhode island. you chose not to run for re-election in rhode island. your approval ratings are fairly low. why not do it in your home state today, with a home state crowd.
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>> first of all, i'm proud of my record as governor. when i came in, we had one of the highest unemployment rates in the country it's down to 6.1% now, it's the biggest drop in the unemployment rate of all but three states. that's a great record to run on. i came here and got the invitation to speak about foreign relations and obviously that's a passion of mine and especially important as i conduct this presidential run, what we're going to do in the world, how america goes forward internationally, the combination of doing something a little different. the timing of being here in early june and talking about foreign international issues. >> thank you very much. up next, a plot uncovered in boston to attack police officers with knives and news the suspects also discuss targeting anti-islam agitator pamela geller next.
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breaking news out of boston tonight, a man named david wright appeared on court today on charges of conspiring to destroy evidence. officials say it was an imminent plot to attack and behead police officers. the man alleged to have plotted those murders. rahim was killed by police yesterday after a confrontation in the parking lot of a cvc pharmacy. officers opened fire after rahim. he confronted them with a large knife. law enforcement officials tell nbc news that rahim had discussed plans to behead the anti-islamic activist. it's important to note the discussion was not a serious plot, it amounted to a little more than a fantasy. joining me now with the latest is hillary sergeant, senior writer at what do we know about this alleged accomplice who's been picked up?
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>> we know that he's 25 years old, he's from the boston area, we don't know much more than that. we know that he had several family members in court and he paid for his own counsel. aside from that, we really don't know much. >> how did investigators happen upon these two? or at least rahim, who was under surveillance? do we know what led them to this man? >> we don't. we know that the purchase of the eight inch military style knife was something that was picked up on, but we don't know if that's what prompted it. it wasn't. i mean, i think we know at this point that the joint terrorism task force has a fair amount of surveillance capabilities, but we don't know what led them to these people.
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>> in terms of the details of the plot against police officers, i mean, i guess my question is how fully realized was this as a plot from the scale of idle sociopathic fantasy to imminent? do we have a good sense from investigator where's it was in that scale? >> look, you think of idol sociopathic fantasy is something that takes place in one idol sociopathic mind. there were three individuals, david wright, usamma rahim and one third unnamed individual who met on a rhode island beach in inclement weather to discuss a plot. i think it is a little more than idol chatter. >> do we know if that third person was an inform an in the. >> we don't know anything more about that third individual. we believe there's a third location in rhode island that's being searched but as of -- as far as i know, there's no third individual at this point who has been arrested.
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>> are there family members of rahim who have come forward to discuss whether their experience of him was the experience we heard after the boston marathon bombings of watching someone radicalize? >> there was a brother who came forward on facebook yesterday who spoke out to say that this was unexpected. to some extent you have to sort of imagine that as a close family member, you may come out to say something like that regardless. i don't think we have the depth of knowledge to know whether his family thought this was expected or not at this point. >> thanks so much many. >> thank you. still ahead, after the unrest in baltimore a new nationwide crime wave. are they right?
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last week the washington post put out a graphic that went viral around the world and appeared on this show.
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how many people had died building world cup stadiums in qatar, compared to past world cups in olympics, great powerful graphic. but it was wrong. the post has corrected the graphic to reflect that, it shows total migrant worker deaths in qatar since december 2010, not deaths specifically related to building the world cup facilities, which are difficult to pin down. there's a big difference, although that correction does not change the fact that the migrant workers are being treated like slave labor or that many of them have died building world cup infrastructure, but it's important to correct the record. there are developments going on today in the fifa saga. the cup scheduled for 2022. testimony was unsealed today from chuck blazer, former official who turned cooperating witness, and who infamously kept a $6,000 a month trump tower
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apartment for his cats. he swore under oath that he and others accepted an facilitated bribes in exchange for the 1998 and 2010 world cups. the fbi is scrutinizing how fifa awarded those world cups in russia and qatar. something swiss prosecutors are looking into as well. officials continue to investigate sepp blatter, and six indicted fifa officials have now been added to interpol's most wanted list. if you're a pius, go to a church. our business is our business. well, it's the world's business now, jack. y pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom?
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welcome back to hannity, crime is skyrocketing. crime spiking in major cities across the country.
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>> there are horrifying numbers out this week from some of america's biggest cities. >> if you're consuming -- you're hearing that america's decade long crime is over p.m. here's the thing, that headline is not completely basis, last month was baltimore's deadliest in over 40 years, homicides are up in milwaukee, chicago and atlanta as well. the story being being told is not just about numbers it's about lives lost. it's about increases happening linked to the use of force by police particularly in ferguson missouri and baltimore. to hear fox news tell it, we're in the midst of a war. >> murders and violent crimes are soaring all across the kurn the. >> bloodshed in baltimore continues to soar, we're taking a closer look at how the fallout from a series of incidents is leading america's finest under
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fire. >> all of the police bashing and reversals of crime prevention policies are putting our lives and our economies at risk. >> the argument seems to be police have been forced into a defense everyone crowd. in a statement, criminals feel empowered now, there is no respect, police are under siege in every quarter, they're more afraid of going to jail for doing their jobs than they are getting shot on duty. >> some of his officers are angry. >> is there a moral problem? >> there's officers who are angry, i think there's officers who are frustrated. there's officers who also are confused of issues in the wrestling of the six officers, there were others. >> bill de blasio's opposition to stop and frisk led to more
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shootings. >> allowing police to randomly stop people and search them for guns. >> new york post asked this week, how many new yorkers must die before the mayor brings back stop and frisk. now, for 50 years our policies on crime and incarceration have grown out of the fear of widespread lawlessness and chaos. richard nixon ran for president and won in the law and order platform that made a specific argument. riots in cities like watts and elsewhere. that premise has been absolutely fundamental. >> just as it seems, we are on the verge of a new way of thinking about crime. that old way of thinking is rearing its head once again. we'll debate if there's something to it next.
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joining me now, vince warren. i'm somewhat obsessed with this topic. particularly going back to '68 and looking at the huge spike in crime. unrest, protest and crime were sort of related. basically, if you allow small
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infractions, small bits of disorder, broken windows, that communicates to people there's no order, no law here, and people feel more permissive and you get more crime. do you think that's what's going on. >> in baltimore, you have police that are stretched too thin. they can't respobd to calls for service, because they're getting crowded by people, before one cop could handle a routine call, now there are four or five. you don't have proactive policing in baltimore, you don't have drug corners, you have cops who aren't willing to go hands on. and you have fewer arrests. it's a lack of resources right now. >> the few arrests is understating things, dramatic dropoff and arrest. that's arrests in baltimore by year, you see what happens after the -- now, another interpretation of that, i have to say, having been in new york,
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after the two cops in brooklyn, we saw a similar plunge in arrest which was pretty clearly coordinated work slowdown by a police force that was furious, does that look like that to you? >> it does look like that to me. there are two steps to that. after my organization won the stop and frisk case, the city said, if we stop stop and frisk, the crime is going to rise. secondly, they had a coordinated work slowdown on the premise, if they did that the fear that crime would rise. it didn't do that either. we have a scenario where the number of arrests really look to me, like it's either a coordinated work stoppage or it's a -- something by the police department to say, we're actually going to stop doing this for some strange reason. >> coordinated work stoppage is illegal under maryland law. >> what's happened in new york, is not what's happening in maryland. >> why not? >> it was a work slowdown in new york. it was cops not wanting to meet numbers for no reason.
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they were still doing the real police work they could in new york. >> what was funny about the -- not funny, but weird, this experiment, it was sort of this like screw you action. this is the kind of -- this is what we want. i have a lot of friends who are working right now in the eastern and western districts. it's a lot tougher to do their job. they're trying to. moral is horrible and they don't want to get in trouble or charge when they are doing their job and make request intentions in the states. >> there's something that doesn't make sense to me, you roll it back, you have six police officers that have been charged for a criminal act. and you can't explain to me and convince me that the vast majority of people in baltimore have decided now they're going to shoot people up, because police officers had been arrested. i think the opposite would be true. secondly, you're not going to
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convince me that the bad baltimore police department is now afraid to go out and do routine traffic, routine patrols, just because six police officers were arrested and they think people are mad about it. it doesn't make sense to me at all. >> when they're -- here's what i'm hearing, and the commissioner says something similar. we go to do something, a bit of policing, where apprehending someone who is running from the cops or responding to a call, and a crowd gathers, and because the crowd gathers, we have to send more officers, because we find that amount, that officers are being pulled from somewhere else. what one cop could do, six cops are now doing. that's the theory. >> the issue is, certain people in certain neighborhoods are shooting each other. those are people who would be more deterred from guns. >> here's what i find troubling. let's imagine a situation in which people are coming to the street, when there's police activity in the wake of freddie
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gray. and they are nonviolently constitution ali police officers, is the message, people want to come out and observe their officers doing their job, we can't do our job, if that's the message, something is deeply wrong. >> we can't have a scenario in which the police department says the only way we'll be able to do our job is if somebody's watching us. we have cop watch programs around the country, they haven't sprung up for no reason whatsoever, there needs to be some measure of seville overoversight. the reason why we know about some of these incidents because we have people that have been watching and filming. that can be a threatening situation for the police department. >> that's the question, what's happening now in baltimore is not just a cop watch program. people that can turn into a mob scene. cops aren't. they don't want to start a bad situation.
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and they don't feel they have the support of the leadership. this matters. what's an alternative theory. how did shootings double overnight. >> there is some -- there's a remote possibility that this is a statistical hiccup. it's hard not to put two and two together. you put two and two together, in that case, you get 22, you don't get four. i agree with you, there has to be some reason for the spike. but if what we're arguing is the reason why the spike has happened is two fold. number two, any people that are watching the police department can turn into a mob at any minute that doesn't make sense to me, and there's a policy way to get out of it. >> peter and vince, i warrant to keep talking about this, this is going to continue to play out, thank you very much. had a is all in for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts now.
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thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. governor rick perry is expected to announce tomorrow in dallas that he is going to mount another campaign to become the republican nominee for president of the united states. honestly, full disclosure, when rick perry got in the presidential race in 2012, looking at him on paper, looking at his career, looking at his reputation in texas and everything that had been written about him as a political figure, i thought in 2012, that rick perry was going to be the guy to beat for the nomination that year. he waited a long time to get in in 2012, as mitt romney drifted to the head of that weird pack of republican candidates that year. when rick perry jumped in the race, i thought he was just going to blow everyone away. i had no idea he was going to be such a terrible candidate.