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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  June 10, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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is that going to fly? a kid's table for the people that don't make it. i have no idea. the rnc threatened any candidate that debates in a debate not sanctioned by the party will be barred from future debates. >> i can fit them all in the studio whenever they want. we have plenty of room. >> no arbitrary cut off. they are all welcome. >> no problem. thanks, rachel. well, at least he apologized through his lawyer. >> he apologizes to all who are offended. >> reporter: former mckinney police officer eric casebolt apologized through his attorney.
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>> eric regrets his conduct portrayed him and his department in a negative light. he allowed his emotions to get the better of them. >> most abortion clinics in the state of texas will close at the end of the month. >> the goal of the state legislature and governor perry was to end safe, legal abortion in the state of texas. >> the white house said hundreds more troops are heading back. >> the president hasn't outlined a strategy in order win. >> they don't know what to say except to attack the president. >> he's not figured out the iraq answer. >> believe that the efforts to date haven't been strategic. >> reporter: both the one behind him which is his brother's war and the one in front of him. >> don't get me started on the tension between me and my sister, martha. ♪
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every week republican presidential candidates are facing a new issue. >> would you attend a gay wedding? >> knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion? >> was it a mistake to go to war with iraq? >> some are out there like lindsey graham saying we should send 10,000 ground troops to iraq to help with this fight. do you favor that? >> republican presidential candidate lindsey graham plans to use the united states senate to change the presidential campaign subject of the week to abortion. senator graham plans to introduce a bill banning abortions after the 20th week of pregnancy. supreme court's decision in row v. wade said a woman has the right to end a pregnancy. they said it is usually seven months, 28 weeks but may occur at 24 weeks. in april, senator graham spoke at an event for an anti-abortion organization.
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>> we're going to have one hell of a fight on the floor of the senate. i can't prompt you we're going to get 60 votes this year, but i can promise you one day we will. >> joining us now "new york times" political reporter and msnbc political analyst jeremy peters the president of planned percent hood, and msnbc contributor barney frank, author of frank, a life in politics. >> there is lindsey graham saying i can promise we will get to 60 votes saying this is a stunt, i will use the senate floor because i can. the procedure allows me to go out there when i want to. in this case when it is convenient for my campaign with no hope of what he is doing becoming law. >> we have had are 29 actions by the congress to try to limit abortion. it's an obsession. for lindsey graham, this is an effort to pander to the wing of his party he needs in order to be competitive.
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it's really a shame that we are -- continue to be preoccupied by this issue. it's not what the voters or the republican party wants. i was heartened to see senator susan colin s say this isn't the priority and shouldn't be of this congress. >> barney frank, the priority of the senate apparently will be whatever this week's presidential candidate in the senate decides to make it. >> that's true but i think we are getting an indication of what the 2016 election will be about. it is clear it will be if they win in an effort to deal with climate change or do any financial regulation. i think people should take the abortion thing seriously. the supreme court and lower courts have been edging closer to the tension of abortion restrictions. i think it's very clear, with lindsey graham raising this and the pressure it generates among the republican electorate if you get a republican president elected in 2016 given the age and disposition of the supreme
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court justices, roe v. wade will be overturned. i don't think there is any question that if a republican president wins we will see the end of roe v. wade. >> jeremy peters, is that what we will hear from republican candidates next week, promises to select supreme court justices who will overturn roe v. wade? >> this is always a question that comes up in every presidential election. there is awareness among republicans to get too deep in to the weeds on this issue. i have to say, i find it curious as a political strategy because all of the presidential candidate who are in the senate, lindsey graham, ted cruz, rand paul, marco rubio, they are cosponsors of the bill. it is not a way to differentiate themselves. what you have is not so much a campaign tactic as it is mitch mcconnell fulfilling a promise to the anti-abortion groups from 2014 when they helped him in some tight senate races that the
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republicans were trying to win and he promised to bring a bill like this to the floor. that's what this is. >> go ahead, barney. >> i disagree. in the first place, i don't think you will see -- things are changing. this is not the republican nominating process of eight years ago or even four. the right wing pressures i think are intensifying and i think you will see whatever the awareness is you notice all four of them are son soars of the bill and will all be sponsors of it. in addition just because other people are for it doesn't mean you can't make an issue. you could be the one most effective. you can claim i'm the real leader on this. the fact they are all together on the issue in substance doesn't mean they won't try to make it a basis for differentiating among them depending on who was the most advocate and most effective. >> cecile, to barney's point it may have no legislation impact on the senate floor but it
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should, in barney's view be taken as a promise. this is what a republican presidency will try to bring you. >> i don't disagree at all. in fact, what we are seeing this year is a repeat of what we saw in the this last presidential primary where it was a rate to the bottom on women. it resulted in the largest gender gap inform the history of gallop polling ever in a presidential race because we had a republican primary, everyone pledged to overturn roe v. wade, defund planned parenthood and the reason this is serious and we are seeing like in the state of texas that have enacted draconian measures the impact on women. it is no longer a theoretical war on women. it is an actual war on women. >> the republican primary field is confused about what the debate rules will be. fox news wants to limit who gets on the stage and new hampshire republicans sent a letter to fox news about the rnc debate criteria. they said, as you know the first in the nation new hampshire primary plays a pivotal role in
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selecting the nominees for president. historically, it has been the responsibility of early primary and caucus states to closely examine and winnow the field of candidates, and it is not in the electorate's interest to have tv debate criteria supplant this solemn duty. is there a way out of this for this crowded republican field? is there a wise way for the party to handle this? >> there is but what's interesting, we were struck by watching this, michael steel on one of the shows on msnbc, what we have seen is the republican party is officially recognized the fact that fox news is their communications division. i'm serious. michael steel, sensible former rnc chair said we are going to leave it to fox news. you see this interesting collaboration, unprecedented i think for the two major political parties and theoretically independent network. i think at this point i have some sympathy with some of the
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republican candidates. what this does is show the absolute selfishness and desire for self advancement. there are people running who everyone knows have no serious chance. for them to insist on -- obviously from a democratic standpoint, a debate of 15, 16 people will be something atypical and they should say we will do some restriction and i think what you see and people ought to start to talk about some of these candidates, who have no serious chance whatsoever and i'm delight ed to see them messing up their own party's procedures. >> what about other sponsors jumping in and offering debate forums as i have done. they can all come whenever they want. >> i'm sure ted cruz will take you up on that, lawrence. in all seriousness, what you are seeing is two things, a
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weakening of the national parties. the republican national committee doesn't really have much power over the mechanics of the political process and debates is one thing they can control. when they exert control they found a backlash from candidates and from local and state parties who felt they were cut out of the process. so what this is all led to is a lot of griping and hard feeling on the part of new hampshire republicans, on the part of iowa republicans because they feel the rnc has effectively outsourced the winnowing of the field to the news networks. they always took seriously their early place in this presidential selection process, which they now feel has been undermined. >> not the news network. fox news. >> that's not true. cnn is hosting the second debate. abc news will be hosting a debate. >> but fox was --
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>> they all set their own criteria. it is not just fox. >> let fox go first and giving them and fox is the pattern setter by the rnc choice. >> cecile, is it in the democrat's interest in your view to have as many republicans on the stage as possible? it increases the idea, the possibility as it would with any large group of something nutty being said? >> i think regardless of how many folks are on stage nutty things are already said. not from the democratic point of view but the women's point of view the candidates are indistinguishable. the more daylight we shine on their positions and how extreme they are the more we will see a repeat of the last election. >> thank you if all for joining me tonight. >> good to be here. coming up, the reaction to the apology today from that texas police officer who was caught on video violating the
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rights of teenagers after a pool party.
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the attorney for the police officer in texas who was caught on camera out of control in his reaction to kids leaving a pool party apologized on his behalf today and said that the problem was what he was doing before he got called to intervene at that pool party. let's listen to this. >> he does recognize his emotions got the best of him and that the prior suicide calls put him in an emotional place that he would prefer not to have been in when responding to this call. >> more about those suicide calls and everything she had to say next.
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now available with an easy open cap. >> this is hope his resignation will facilitate the cooperative between the police officers and the city of mckinney. >> that's is jane bishkin an attorney representing eric casebolt who resigned from the police force after videos showed what his police chief called indefensible conduct at the scene of a swimming pool party. for a few of you who haven't seen it, it includes many disturbing moments. [ bleep ] [ bleep ] [ bleep ] [ screaming ] >> call my mom.
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>> on your face! [ everyone talking at once ] >> officer casebolt's attorney explained he had just responded to two different suicide calls, one in which a man had taken his life and another a teenager girl was sub dude and taken to a hospital. the attorney said those two suicide calls just prior to this event, quote, took an emotional toll on eric casebolt. she then described what happened next. >> with all that happened that day, he allowed his emotions to
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get the better of him. eric regrets that his conduct portrayed him and his department in a negative light. he never intended to mistreat anyone but was only reacting to a situation and the challenges that it presented. he apologizes to all who were offended. that day was not representative of the ten-year service to the community of mckinney and it is his hope by his resignation the community may start to heal. >> the attorney said she would take no questions, but then she answered a few questions. >> you issued an apology does it extend to the 14/15-year-old involved in all of that? >> anyone who feels -- who was offended, yes. again, he is apologizing that his conduct offended.
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he recognize and i think i said this that he does recognize that his emotions got the best of him. and that the prior suicide calls put him in an emotional place that he would prefer not to have been in when responding to this call. >> joining me now msnbc national correspondent. she attended the press conference with eric casebolt's lawyer and the jury for another press conference and a defense lawyer based in dallas, texas a former police officer who served with the mckinney police department. peter schulte, i want to get to this question raised by the lawyer, this issue raised by the lawyer which is commonly raised in this situation for defense of police officers and that is what he or she was doing before. clearly, it's interesting to know about, but the job of the police officer is to be able to show up at a scene and deal with
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the situation that's at that scene without reacting, as she put it, under emotional pressures or emotional conditions that he's bringing with him from a previous scene. >> right, lawrence. i think it is interesting the press conference opened more questions than answers. if he wasn't able to get himself emotionally ready to go to the next call, the bigger question is why did he respond? maybe he should have gone back to the police department and cooled down a bit to try to collect his thoughts before responding. >> let me stop you and ask you about. that you served on that police department. i'm sure there's -- the police culture around the country would have similar reaction to this. what would happen, an officer is in a car and he is thinking i don't want to respond to this pool party thing because the two suicide calls i have been through. i want to go back to the station and take a break. isn't there a culture, a police cultural pressure to not do that, to not say i'm going to take myself off the street. i'm going to go back to the
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station? wouldn't he be looked at negatively by his colleagues? >> that's obviously a good question. i had situations when i was a police officer that i'd get to something and something would happen and it wouldn't turn out as well as i thought it would and the next call comes in and a you just have to go. but in this day and age, especially when he had back-to-back suicide calls which nobody knew about until his attorney today decided to let us know about that. i think there are expectations in the culture of police department to make sure police officers are able to handle anything they are dispatched to. i agree with you, lawrence, sometimes it may defeat your manhood or your ego to have to say i have to go back and take a break but that should have happened in this case. based on miss bishkin's conversation today he shouldn't have been at that call. >> the police culture has to open up to that option, allowing someone if this is the actual condition to he is not going out to this one.
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how did the apology go over in mckinney today? >> well, i can tell you that at least from the point of the view from the attorney they certainly welcome sentiments. she was quick to say it doesn't alter the fundamental facts which is the potential violation of the civil rights of the 15-year-old girl. i think people are sympathetic to anyone saying they were in distress at that time. i think a lot of people in this community, at least who were focused on activism around what happened to her want to keep the focus there. the first question, in fact, lawrence after they started taking questions after they weren't taking questions is whether any other officers who responded to the scene. remember, 12 officers responded. whether any other officers responded but were able to behave appropriately at the scene of the pool party. that's one of the questions that
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was begged by the answer. >> they didn't -- either didn't know the answer to it or couldn't. in your experience with the size of that police department and the geography in question, 12 officers show up. probably within some geographic proximity of the suicide calls. what's the likelihood of the others, one, two, three or more of them were also involved in those previous calls? >> pretty substantial likelihood. i'd say that at least one or two of them that responded had to have been at one or two of those suicide calls. i found it interesting during the press conference with his lawyer that she tried to make a big deal that he's the one that handled the suicide calls, had to console the wife of the first one and he was responsible for talking the second victim, the second suicide suspect off the roof. i think maybe because he was one of the corporals and one of the supervisors. that's a good question. again, kind of goes back to the
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culture we talked about. there were times i was at mckinney and we'd get to a rough call and i'd have a supervisor say, pete go back to the station and take a break and then get another high priority call and you have to go. that's the training and mind set you have to have to be a successful police officer. >> lawrence -- >> go ahead, joy. >> i was going to point out that i think one of the things that hasn't been mentioned that much is eric casebolt was not just another officer on the scene. he was actually the supervisor. i think the question it raises for me as to whether or not he was free to go to that scene or not go to that scene, he was not going to be one of the junior officers on the team. he was in charge of that scene. the other thing his attorney said was he actually thought of not going but actually decided to go -- he thought it was a mundane, kids at a pool party trespass case but made the decision to go any way once it was escalated to a situation greater than a trespass.
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these were decisions he was making in that moment. >> we will have to leave it there tonight. thank you for joining us tonight. coming up, michelle obama's mother reveals the secret of her success in parenting -- of michelle's mother success in parenting which michelle obama says should surprise no one. next. ♪♪ expected wait time: 55 minutes. your call is important to us. thank you for your patience. waiter! vo: in the nation, we know how it feels when you aren't treated like a priority. we do things differently. we'll take care of it. vo: we put members first... join the nation. thank you. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ get fast-acting, long-lasting relief from heartburn with it neutralizes
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on january 21st, 2013, 15-year-old hadiya pendleton marched in to president obama's inaugural parade. eight days later she was shot and killed on the south side of chicago, not far from the obama family home. first lady michelle obama spoke at her funeral. yesterday should have been her high school graduation day. instead, her classmates presented her family with a class ring and left one seat empty in her honor and once again the first lady addressed her family, friends and classmates at king college prep high school. here's part of what she said. >> so too often we hear a skewed story about our communities. a narrative that says that a stable, hard-working family in a neighborhood like woodlawn, chatham or bronzeville is somehow remarkable.
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that a young person who graduates from high school and goes to college is a beat-the-odds kind of hero. i can't tell you how many times people have met my mother and asked her how on earth did you ever raise kids like michelle and craig in a place like south shore. and my mom looks at these folks like they are crazy and she says, michelle and craig are nothing special. there are millions of craigs and michelles out there. i did the same thing that all of those other parents did. she says, i loved them, i believed in them and i didn't take any nonsense from them. and i'm here tonight because i want people across this country to know that story, the real story of the south side. maybe you have been tested a lot more and a lot earlier in life than many other young people. maybe you have more scars than they do.
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maybe you have days when you feel more tired than someone your age should ever really feel, but graduates, tonight i want you to understand that every scar that you have is a reminder, not just that you got hurt, but that you survived. [ applause ] if ideas, friends and family could survive the heart break and pain, if they could found organizations to honor her unfulfilled dreams, if they can inspire folks across this country to wear orange in protest to gun violence, than i know you all can live your life with the same determination and joy that hadiya lived her life. i know you can dig deep and fulfill your own dreams. >> joy reid is back with us and host on cirrius xm radio.
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such an extraordinary speech. we have come to expect this from michelle obama. she says things in ways no one else can. every parent put up an index card with michelle obama's advice on it. i loved them, i believed in them and didn't take any nonsense from them. >> absolutely, lawrence. it is interesting, i was listening, listening to the speech earlier today that if trayvon martin in a lot of ways fundamentally emotionally shaped barack obama in that white house in a lot of ways, and i think he really did. i think hadiya pendleton did the same for michelle obama. i have heard her speak of hadiya before. you can see she saw herself in the potential hadiya had. she saw her as almost herself because they were raised in similar circumstances, the determination of hadiya's
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parents that kept her busy with the marching band and all that she was involved in just to keep her constantly occupied and raising her a lot of the same ways that mary ann robinson raised her children. she's emotional about. that she, as you said attended the funeral. there is something about the way michelle obama is able to speak and communicate that makes you feel like you knew her and she knows you and show could have lived around the corner. that quality makes her a unique significant first lady. >> she really does come from their neighborhood. let's hear more of what she had to say and why she's not surprised that every graduate, all 177 of this class has been accepted in college. >> there's one thing that i'm not feeling right now and that is surprised. i'm not at all surprised by how accomplished you all are.
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i'm not at all surprised by the dedication your teachers have shown on the sacrifices your families have made to carry you to this day. i'm not surprised because i know this community >> mark thompson, not surprised. >> no. you are right. she does come from that community. this is the power of michelle obama and the president. first of all, first lady is three for three. tuskegee, overland, college prep. she has given some inspirational and aspirational speeches charging these young people in terms of what their responsibilities are. so it is meaningful for these young people to be endorsed by this first lady. her saying she's not surprised. and for her also to speak to their role in the future in terms of rewriting the history of our own community, which she said later in the speech is a burden she and the president share every day.
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they can -- everything they do or say can either confirm the myths about african-americans or refute them. it's timely considering what many of these young people are facing, whether violence in their community or at the hands of the police. she is speaking about their dignity, their humanity. she's a part of it. it is important for the first african-american first lady to speak about dignity and humanity as african-american woman after we have just seen these videos of this young lady in mckinney and her humanity and dignity attacked by this police officer. this is a very, very meaningful moment. >> let's listen to what shed a what to say to these young people about friends of theirs who may not be doing as well as they are right now. let's listen to that. >> there are so many young people who can only dream of the opportunities you have had at king college prep. young people in troubled parts of the world who never set foot in a classroom.
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young people in this community who don't have anyone to support them. young people like hadiya who were taken from us too soon and can never become who they were meant to be. you need to stay hungry for them. >> joy reid, your reaction? >> yeah, absolutely. i think that that part of it -- you can hear the emotion in her voice. i think that both the obamas have this real sense of -- i wouldn't call it burden but responsibility to try to speak to the futures and the possibilities of young children of color, of young people of color. i think they feel that deeply and that is a part of this process, of being the first family. michelle obama has said as much that it is significant they are the first black family to live in that white house and i think they want to impart something they have taken from it and the sense of responsibility and pass it on in hopes the next generation will do the same and
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pass it on the next after that. >> that will have to be the last word on this tonight. mark, such good times on the importance of the timing of the speech in the same week we saw the girl abused on the street like that and the whole world saw. that thank you both tonight. coming up, the conscience of the senate. that's right. the united states senate. which used to have a conscience. later, new strategy in the hunt for two prison escapees in upstate new york. heart health's important... you may... take an omega-3 supplement... ...but it's the ingredients inside that really matter for heart health.
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on may 20th, a junior agent on duty at a white house even approached a young woman, an event planner and asked for her phone on the first lady's protection detail. according to the "washington post," eight hours later that agent sent the woman some lewd images and suggestive texts from his personal cell phone while he was off duty. the secret service, our secret service learned about all of this from the "national enquirer." and then placed the agent on administrative leave while investigating the situation. up next, in her story, one of the most extraordinary women in the history of the united states senate was not a senator.
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>> phil hart's name is engraved in history.
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there are three senate office buildings in washington and one is named for him. it is the only senate office building that was named for a still living senator. when the vote was taken in the senate on naming the building, phil hart abstained and 99 of his colleagues voted to name the building after the man they then knew as the conscience of the senate. a few months later, phil hart died. the day after christmas in 1976. after his death, the legendary columnist mary mcgrory wrote, naming the new senate office building after hart was appropriate. and then she said if they could build his qualities he was gentle and just in to the walls we would have a senate that a would you astound the world with its civility and enlightenment. when phil hart was in the senate no one in washington was better at finding the moral center of
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an issue. when wallace came to testify against the civil rights bill it was phil hart who asked the governor if he thought that heaven would be segregated. i worked in the senate long after phil hart was gone but worked with senators who loved phil hart and never forgot him and with his name on the building he still had a presence there every day. when i met his son jim hart, a brilliant producer and director in los angeles, i was in awe. this was the closest i was ever going to get to phil hart. i know all about jim hart's father, but i knew nothing about his mother. history is a spotlight, and often right outside of the rim of that spotlight, in the darkness there is a story as captivating as the center of history's spotlight.
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and so it is, with jim hart's mother, senator phil hart's wife. this is her story. jane cameron briggs was born in 1921 in detroit where her father was the owner of the detroit tigers. she took flying lessons and got her pilot's license while she was still a teenager. she married phil hart in 1943 while he was serving as an army captain. phil hart was wounded in the war and recovered a the same hospital that senator dole was in after suffering his injuries in world war ii. the lasting bond forged in that hospital served the two future senators well when they got to washington and found ways of working together across party lines. jane and phil hart had eight children. when phil turned to politics in michigan, janey was the pilot flying him to campaign events in a helicopter. phil hart's senate career began at the dawn of america's space program and janey hart publicly pushed for the inclusion of
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women in the astronaut program. 20 years before sally ride became the first woman in space, in her 40s, janey hart passed an astronaut training program with no hope of becoming an astronaut, just to make the point that women could do it. >> think it would be difficult for a woman astronaut to also have a family? >> i've accomplished the production of eight children and in the process of raising them and i still have been able to fly 2,000 hours of flying time and consider able aeronautical experience. >> janey hart opposed america's involvement in the vietnam war before her husband did. she got arrested at the pentagon during a demonstration. michael hart told the "washington post" his father was sometimes asked can't you control that wife of yours and senator hart would always reply, why would i?
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in 1978, janey hart made a trip behind enemy lines in hanoi to meet with american p.o.w.s and make her own assessment of the situation. the "washington post" reports that she stopped paying federal income taxes, put it in a special holding fund and wrote a note to the internal revenue service saying, i cannot contribute one more dollar toward the purchase of more bombs and bullets. senator hart publicly disagreed with his wife's decision to withhold taxes but no senator understand matters of conscience better than he did. he said he was, quote, proud of a decision that i disagree. we will not see the likes of janey and phil hart in our politics again, a senator of unquestioned integrity, and a senator's spouse engaging in her own public life without getting her words and actions approved by political handlers.
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our 21st century media would not know what to make of them. in phil hart's final appearance on "meet the press," janey joined him at the table for a bit of reminiscence and asked how she managed her family of eight children while supporting her husband's political career and pursuing her own interests? >> it didn't seem so difficult at the time. i look back at it now and can't understand how i did it. even just having the eight children strikes me as an amazing accomplishment now that i see my daughter with her one. but it didn't seem to be so difficult at the time. still wasn't with phil away so much obviously. and at the time i was flying quite a bit. i could get around the state of michigan and pretty much always be home every afternoon by the time the older ones were back from school. so we didn't get split up as much as we might have.
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>> when senator hart died, the president called janey hart, president ford. the president asked, as we all do in that situation, if there was anything he could do. janey hart's answer made front page news. >> the widow of senator phillip hart whose funeral was held today received a phone call yesterday from president ford. mr. ford asked her whether he could do anything for her. she said yes, he could grant amnesty to all vietnam draft evaders and supporters. >> on friday, just before dawn janey hart died. she was 93. our new rope has actually passed all the tests. we're ready to start with production. ok, are you doing test markets like last time? uh, no we're going to roll out globally.
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ok. we'll start working on some financing options right away. thanks, joe. oh, yeah. it's a game-changer for the rock-climbing industry. this is one strong rope! huh joe? oh, yeah it's incredible! how you doing team? jeff you good? [jeff] i think i dropped my keys. [announcer] you work hard to build your company. wells fargo will work right alongside you, bringing the expertise your company needs to move forward. wells fargo. together we'll go far. [container door opening] ♪
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what makes it an suv is what you can get into it. ♪ [container door closing] what makes it an nx is what you can get out of it. ♪ introducing the first-ever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. once you go beyond utility there's no going back. the latest on the prison break in upstate new york is
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at this hour, police in upstate new york have gone to search an area 100 miles from the maximum security prison where two men escaped. new york asked for vermont's help in tracking those prisoners. >> from the point of view of public safety these people are dangerous. they are dangerous to new york residents and the residents of the state of vermont. we have had an exhaustive effort.
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as you know it's not for lack of trying. we will redouble our efforts and keep looking until we find them. >> the vermont state police are alerting residents near lake champlain to be on the lookout for suspicious activity. police search door to door. sources close to the investigation say the prison employee joyce mitchell is still being questioned by authorities. joining us now is dan french, the former united states attorney for the northern district of new york. dan, that's your district where this prison is. earlier in the day, there's the governor with the with vermont governor thinking they could be as far away as the vermont border. the latest report, within a mile and a half of the prison. and you are not surprised. >> i'm not surprised. what law enforcement thinks -- if you talk to law enforcement up there -- there was a plan inside the prison and a plan outside the prison. what looks like happened, the plan outside the prison didn't come together.
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the plan must have been to get away from that tiny town in upstate new york as fast as possible and looks like that plan fell apart. now you have two convicted killers on foot in a very densely wooded area, that very rural area. to put this in perspective, in clinton county, where this prison is, there are 80 people per square mile in that county. in new york city, there are 26,000 people per square mile. it's densely forested. therefore, if you are on foot, you are not likely to go far. you are likely to get confused. >> you told me earlier today about a tactic used by a prisoner who actually escaped twice in upstate new york. >> there was a serial killer in the 1970s by the name of robert garrow who most law students that graduated know of. there is an ethics case about his lawyer knowing where bodies were buried and not telling law
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enforcement because of the privilege he had to his client. that's almost every lawyer in america knows that story. but the story is when he was on the lam he stayed within 20 to 30 feet of the highways because it was so densely populated. he needed the roads to travel. >> he was able to listen to police and listen to tactics. >> one tactic was to stay within feet of the new york state compound where all of the troopers were and where they were getting their assignments. he could hear what they were doing and where they were going next. how they finally got him is they had a sense that this is what he was doing and they did a ring and just walked out and flushed him out of the bushes. it's that densely populated up there. you can be of three feet. you and me of this distance, i don't think i would see. >> you the vegetation is that dense.
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so, the notion that the latest search was taking place within a mile and a half of the prison is one that doesn't really challenge the mind because you don't have to spend a lot of time figuring out i wonder how they got there, opposed to the canadian board they are question being how did they get there? the only thing we know they can do is move on foot. we don't know if they have any other method. >> we don't know where they are tonight. the hope for law enforcement is they are there. if they found a vehicle, if they have gotten out of that area, six hours to manhattan. so they are really hoping they are there and will find them there. >> at this point, though, anything's possible. >> anything's possible. >> dan french, thank you for joining us. no escape. let's play "hardball."
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good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. this war we know is bad. usually the bugles are blowing and the crowd is cheering, yet here we go back into iraq knowing how little hope there is, lacking any faith in our side. how can president obama sound the trumpet for a war that's already lost? and the story i love, how two bad guys got through thick walls to find freedom five days and counting. the latest on the great escape. first this horror in iraq and syria. why are we getting back into a bed that's already on fire? a prize winning columnist with "the washington post." and david inducted in the journalists hall of famer. thank you, sir. congratulations. and j.c. watts, congressman from oklahoma, supporter of rand paul's presidential bid. gentlemen, here's the big news from the white house statement today.