make the call and ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. new larger size now available. today on "msnbc live," transracial or deceitful. rachel dolezal tackles this head on and no formal apology for hiding being white while she led spokane's chapter of the naacp. >> i've heard people ask you the question are you african or walk indication. i'm not going to ask it that way. are you black? >> yes. >> we're going have more from that exclusive sit down with dolezal ahead and we want to head over to pulse.msnbc.com. we want to know if your answers influence your opinion of her self-declared black identity. we have the latest details of a sexual triangle between joyce mitchell and the still missing convicts she allegedly

helped break out of prison. plus, was this trio plotting to murder mitchell's current husband? and the donald ups the ante. >> the people thousands, for president of the united states and we are going to make our country great again. >> does the entrance of the $9 billion man officially make the 2016 presidential race a circus. welcome to "msnbc live." great to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts reporting today from washington. we start with rachel dolezal breaking her silence for the first time since the scandal surfaced surrounding her claims that she is black. the interview coming less than 24 hours after spokane's con controversycon tro verse shul naacp leader resigned her post. dolezal has been under fire since her estranged parents said she is white by birth. just hours ago the 37-year-old

sat down with msnbc's melissa harris-perry. >> i've heard a lot of people ask you the question are you african-american or caucasian. i'm not going to ask it that way. >> all right. >> are you black? >> yes. >> what do you mean when you say that? what does it mean to you to assume the mantel the identity of blackness? >> well, it means several things. first of all, it means that i have really gone there with the experience in terms of being a mother of two black sons and really owning what it -- what it means to experience and live black -- blackness. and so that's one aspect. another aspect would be that i -- from a very young i imagine a felt -- i don't know spiritual, visceral just very instinctual connection with black is beautiful, you know

just -- just a black experience and wanting to celebrate that. and i didn't know how to articulate that as a young child. kindergarten, whatever you don't have words for what's going on. but certainly that was -- that was shut down. i mean i was socially conditioned to not own that and to be limited to whatever biological identity was thrust upon me and narrated to me and so i kind of felt pretty awkward a lot of times with that. and i remember when larry and ruthanne chose to adopt my younger siblings and i knowing some of the resistance to my independent spirit and creative ways that i wanted to express

myself i was -- i felt like who is going to be the link for the kids in coming to the family. >> melissa harris-perry's entire one-on-one interview with rachel dolezal airs tonight 8:00 p.m.ern a. it's a fascinating conversation that you do not want to miss. but right now i am joined by james wilburn, the former president of the spokane, washington chapter of the naacp. mr. wilburn, thanks for being here. you are acquaintances with rachel dolezal. you know her and you lost to the -- you lost to the woman in the election for that chapter as president. so what is your reaction to her explanation that she has gone there, as she says, in her black experience? >> well, i think we need to tell the truth. she may have -- she may have spent some time with african-americans, you know and may understand some of what

african-americans have gone through. but the actual life experiences, she hasn't had those. she wasn't born african-american. she wasn't born under the conditions that african-americans were born under. and she doesn't have the experience that african-americans have experienced for the 400 plus years in this country. and so i admire her for wanting to help fight for the cause, but i think when you build a foundation of lies everything you build on that foundation is a lie. and so for that reason i was concerned that it would weaken the credibility and viability of the organization. >> and sir, the national naacp president spoke with my colleague tamron hall on "newsnation" earlier today. i want to play a portion of it and get your response. >> i'm not entirely sure this reality tv moment which is here today and gone tomorrow is a

substitute for pushing for legislation to protect our children to expand opportunity, to protect the right to vote that people bled and died for. >> so, sir, it sounds like you feel the same way. how do you bring back the credibility of the naacp? how do you bring back the viability of the authenticity of its leaders when you have someone like this who was pretending through her experience to be a leader? >> that's a good question thomas. let me say that the track that the naacp was on the five-game changers, that's where we need to go back to. so we've been distracted a little bit. so what i'm looking for is a new leader and we have one who will look at the five game changers, get on track, and keep the relationships and collaborations that we already fostered with the city with spokane public schools, with the police department, with the courts

juvenile justice system. those things are what we were addressing and we need to continue to address those things. >> so, sir, she said she considers herself to be black. and this is the biggest question of them all. is it enough for someone to consider themselves black to make themselves black? >> look, like i said earlier, if you lay a foundation of lies then everything you build on that foundation is a lie. all she has to do is just tell the truth. we got european-american activists in the naacp. been with us since the founding of the naacp in 1909. there were european-americans who helped us put this organization together 100 plus years ago. so you continue have to lie to become a pat part of and become active in it. so all i'm saying is, let's

don't build this foundation on lies. let's tell the truth and go forward from there. >> mr. wilburn, thank you for your time. and we have been taking your pulse on this story. it is our bing question of the day. i want to go back to my colleague in new york. francis, what are people saying? >> it has been so split throughout the day and even throughout the past eight minutes, since we've launched this question. we are asking you, now that you've had a chance to hear from rachael dolezal, what do you think? has her answers changed your opinion of her? look at the scoreboard right now. 39% of you saying yes, it has. at one point that was up to kind of 50ish. 61% of you are saying no. we invite you to continue those votes coming in at pulse.msnbc.com as we continue this conversation we ask you to weigh in because your opinion, your views may change as well. we'll continue to take that pulse. pulse.msnbc.com. thomas? >> thanks so much. and then coming up in less than 30 minutes, more from

melissa's interview with rachel dolezal. you're going to hear how rachel dolezal explains how she felt isolated nearly her entire life because of her race. you'll hear her perspective. and we are following breaking developments along the gulf coast, the national hurricane center says the tropical storm bill has made landfall in texas. bill is expected to produce up to eight inches of rain over parts of texas and oklahoma. impacting some of the same effected area by sfloo flood last month. moments ago josh earnest said the administration is keeping a close eye on the current situation. >> the personnel are in place as well to respond to tropical storm bill, which we know has already begun to bring heavy rainfall, strong winds, and a potential of tornados to portions of texas and oklahoma today. fema remains in close coordination with state emergency managers and tribal officials as well as federal partners at the national weather

service. >> nbc's charles hadlock joins me live from houston. charles, classes are cancel thread. how are things looking so far and what are the biggest concerns for the area? >> tropical storm bill has made landfall on matagora island uninhabited barrier island southwest of houston. it's moving closer to the west afternoon over texas heading toward austin and waco and the dallas/ft. worth area, 24 to 36 hours from now. houston is not letting down its guard just business it's made landfall, because out in the gulf a large area of rain is going to move across southeast texas. and that is the fear. it only takes about two inches of rain per hour to flood the streets of houston like we saw just three weeks ago when houston was inundated by a storm system that moved across houston flooding many parts of town killing at least eight people. the fear is that that rain is going to continue over

rain-soaked areas of texas over the next 24 hours or so. it's something everyone here is on guard about. back to you, thomas. >> the big concern already saturated areas. charles hadlock in houston for us. look at this. this is what tropical storm bill looks like from space. astronaut scott kelly taking his picture from the international space station and tweeting it out saying he is concerned for all in its path. to another breaking story that we are following for you right now where u.s. officials are telling nbc news security was heightened at the u.s. navy yards in philadelphia. this after the fbi was informed or informed the base of a potential threat of a terrorist attack. so that threat now apparently over. but it's still unclear exactly what the nature of the threat was. officials say that certain buildings were at least temporarily evacuated. now an update on a story that has gripped the headlines for days now. it is day 11 of the manhunt for two escaped killers from upstate new york. we just learned that joyce

mitchell's husband lyle visited his wife for the first time today in county jail. that comes as law enforcement sources tell nbc news that investigators are looking into allegations that joyce mitchell may have wanted inmates david sweat and richard matt to kill her husband after she helped them escape. the district attorney isn't commenting on that allegation but he says that mitchell told lyle about some of the plan. >> lyle mitchell has information. joyce talked to him about her involvement during the last few days before she was arrested. so he has that information of what -- no indication that he participated in the escape or the planning of it at any time. >> to the officials are shifting their search eastward along route 374. it's expected to remain closed through today. msnbc adam riess continues to cover this story live from morrisonville, new york. what more do we know about this potential plot? this is a new layer.

>> it sure is. nbc news learned investigators are looking into the possibility she may have wanted these two convicted killers to kill her own husband lyle. now, we also learned that lyle visited her in jail just within the past hour and he says he remains fully supportive despite all of these details. thomas the. >> and so are authorities only looking at joyce mitchell for now, adam, or do they think there's the possibility that other people are out there somehow still involved? >> reporter: they're casting a wide net. they'ring looking inside the jail. they're looking outside. they're talking to corrections officers. they say this investigation is far from over. >> i think it's entirely possible that they had the assistance of somebody else or they had the assistance of, you noeshsing another individual that was cooperating with them even while joyce mitchell was. but at this point in time the only person that we've been able

to identify is joyce mitchell. >> reporter: now we're in day 11. we have 1,000 tips. 800 searchers out there behind me. but not one confirmed sighting as the trail gross cold. thomas? >> we can see the weather behind you uncooperative with all that rain. adam, thank you. still ahead, donald trump puts his money where his mouth is. >> politicians are all talk, no action. we need somebody that literally will take this country and make it great again. >> he is actually in running for the white house. so what does trump's announcement mean for the gop in 2016? plus, the tragedy in berkeley. a sixth person now dead and several critically injured after a fourth floor balcony plummets to the ground. and on a different note. you can say good-bye to some of

your favorite trans fatty foods. the government now says they're not safe for human consumption. we're going to tell you which of your fave comfort foods could be on the chopping block.

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a day after jeb bush declared 4 declared, the donald officially throwing his own hat in the ring. naturally the sight of the announcement was at his own trump tower in midtown manhattan. trump talks immigration, the economy, jobs even took a few hits at former governor bush. and throughout it all trump was his usual trump self. >> i beat china all the time all the time. we need a leader that wrote the

art of the deal. i will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. i would call up the head of ford, who i know i'm not doing that to brag because, you know what, i don't have to brag i don't have to. believe it or not. >> msnbc's jane tim join mess live from new york. she was at the event. and political editor mark murray joins me here in d.c. jane you were at this speech today. the embargoed version of the speech was much shorter than the speech that we were witness to on television. it was a much more ruckus affair. how did it go over? >> trump went almost immediately off script. he was chatting with the crowd. hecklers would interrupt him and say you need trump, he said you're right, we do. he was engaming with the crowd and gone off on his own. he started immediately with isis. didn't even say he was run for president until halfway through the speech speech. it was well received. several hundred fan there's. they told me they were expecting

1,000. i didn't see a thousand but i saw a lot of really engaged fired up fans who were out to see the donalds and, you know, said, you know i think he can beat hillary. they were already immediately seeing him as viable political candidate. >> it was 11:22 when he dropped the bomb i'm running for president. mark want to show the poll numbers that are existing right now across the field. if we look at where it is the top ten, and that the cutoff for the beginning of the jop debates, he may just barely make it correct? and so fox news has a big decision to make. >> they do. yeah if you end up in the top ten of the debates then you end up -- top ten of polls you will end up make the debates. one big caveat and that is whether or not donald trump files his financial disclosure form with the government. today he put out a summary showing he's worth some $9 billion. when you file -- when you run for the presidency the government requires you within 30 days of your candidacy to put detailed financial disclosure

information, stuff that hillary clinton, marco rubio, jeb bush i'm sure is already working on all that stuff. if he ends up putting that out i think there's no question he would make that debate stage. there's a potential out on keeping him away for not filing all the necessary paperwork and maybe fox says, you know what you can't end up being on our debate stage after all. >> so jane, truchmp made harsh comments about mexicans coming acost thea across the border. take a listen. >> they're bringing drug they're bringing crime. they're rapists. and some i assume are good people. but i speak to border guards and they tell us what we're getting. >> is he the gop's biggest nightmare to bring up these types of topics in open air forums at the debate? >> the gop doesn't really want this on their debate stage. they don't want to have someone with their party name on them talking about this. but they can't avoid donald.

he doesn't need the base in the way most candidates to. he says he's going to use his own money and he has his own fan base. he's saying i don't need anything. i get to do this how i want to do it the way i want to do it. >> mark he's not afraid to go after jeb. he's not afraid to go after marco. and he will go for blood. he will say the biggest, worse thing that he can about each and every one of them. >> we've already seen that today. his speech ended up taking on jeb bush. he took on marco rubio. yes, he would use a rhetorical machete on the rest of the republican field and that is why you're kind of lead-up, why it would be a nightmare for republicans. he makes for great ratings but this is the image that you actually want to have for your party? with donald trump stealing the show of every debate? that's a big challenge for the debate promoters and the republican national committee. >> one to watch for sure. mark murray and jane timm who was there at the speech. still ahead, why your trips to the grocery store could

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welcome back. bringing you another big day in sports starting with a world class celebration. that's what chicago mayor rahm emanuel is promiseing in the next few days. the team won the top prize in professional hockey at wrigley field. this marks their third stanley cup win in six years. game six of the nba finals is tonight. if golden state wins tonight it would earn its first nba title since 1975. if the cavs win, the teams will play deciding game seven in oakland, california, on friday night. and it is a make or break match for the united states. the women's world cup in canada today. the americans are seeking to win

group d against nigeria and vancouver. the national team now leads the way at the top of the group but if the team loses, it would open the door for australia or sweden to leap frog the favorites. so thomas seems like you're making some sports news of your own. at least when it comes to the first pitch very righty. can't wait to see it. >> i can't wait to show you. it was a fantastic night. i'm happy to say that i did a good job. you will be proud of me. >> pictures look great. >> we will have it for everybody. listen to this. we have the food and drug administration moving to ban trans fats from all american foods. so food companies are going to have to phase out the use of the heart-clogging trans fats over the next three years. the agency estimates that the move could prevent thousands of heart attack deaths a year. nbc's tom costello is here with more on this. what are we talking about here with the kinds of trans fats? >> it's unfortunately every kind of food you love. >> that we like. >> really is. it is the pizza dough,

especially if it's a frozen pizza dough. microwave popcorn. it is going to be the icings the cake icings. it's going to be the mixtures. all of that pre-processed stuff is going to be on the list. and then, oh, there's a list. cake pies sprinkles on icing, all of that stuff. here's what a trans fat is. i think a lot of people may not know. trans fat is essentially you take a liquid vegetable oil, you inject hydrogen to it and it becomes a solid. as a result of that that becomes an artery clogger. so they have said for 20 or 30 years now this is a serious killer cardiologists warn you in 1993 they warned 100,000 people died every year as a result of deaths related to trans fats. now the fda is saying no more. in three years they must be eliminated. however, importantly, the food manufacturers say they've already eliminated 86% of those trans fats. so we're talking now about a pretty small amount but now even those would be going away.

there is an exception. if you are the guy who makes the sprinkles on the cake and you say, i can't make sprinkles without trans fats you can petition the fda for an exemption. otherwise they're out and hopefully heart attacks will come down. >> 36 months enough time to phase out that 14% remnant that certain food makers say is left in our diets? >> that's going to be the big question. listen, the other question the food manufacturers are saying is that you will see higher food prices potentially. listen, we've already had 86% of trans fats wiped out. food prices haven't really gone up much at all over the last 12 13 years. will they go up for the additional 14%? i don't know. maybe sprinkles will go up. >> stock up on cinnamon icing now. >> freeze it all. i'm coming to check your fridge. >> you are find it in there for sure. tom, thanks. when we come back, more of rachel dolezal's exclusive interview and why she has felt isolated her entire life when it

comes to race. then francis will have results of our bing pulse question now that you've had a chance to hear from her. has it changed your opinion about her? keep voting pulse.msnbc.com. still ahead, we're going the go to north carolina for an update on the shark attack victims and tell you where shacks have been spotted in the last 24 hours. two streetlights. the only difference: that little blue thingy. you see it? that's a sensor. using ge software, the light can react to its environment- getting brighter only when it's needed. in a night it saves a little energy. but, in a year it saves a lot. and the other street? it's been burning energy all night. for frank. frank's a cat. now, two things that are exactly the same have never been more different. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping

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person raising and wearing black children, whether they're you're siblings or bio children or adopted children versus feeling in your own skin and your own personhood that you are yourself black? >> right. i felt very isolated with my identity virtually my entire life, that nobody really got it. and that i didn't really have the personal agencies to express it and certainly i kind of imagined that maybe at some point, especially you know first right after the kids are graduated from high school and in their adult stride that maybe i would be able to really process that, own it publicly and discuss this kind of complexity. but certainly, you know i wasn't expecting it to be thrust upon me right now. >> once again melissa harris-perry's first interview with rachel dolezal will appear

tonight 8:00 p.m. eastern. we will have much more coming up later in this program. but first, social media reaction has been fast and furious after her interviews with msnbc and the "today" show i'm going to go back with francis in new york who has more on that part of story. >> so many hashtags, raychel dolezal transracial. since friday more than 660,000 tweets have been said on a hashtag bearing the name of the figure with people debating if dolezal's work helping the black community outweighs the impact of her dishonesty. dolezal defended her right to identify as a black woman today on our air unleashing a whole new crop of discussion. in fact, this user tweeted about dolezal's comment on using a brown and not a peach crayon to color a picture of herself oz a kid. saying this, i colored myself with a cape and super powers when i was a kid. does that make me batman now? and then there is another american who added about the

former and naacp local president saying this let's not make this deeper than it is. rachel dolezal lied about her race to get a job. plain and simple. but then there's this user who had a completely opposite reaction tweeting, i think it's a form of racism to say she can't be black. on another note hashtags like these, you can see they've been trend for days are still going strong by name itself rachel dolezal. and then ask rachel. also rachel dolezal memoir titles and then rachel dolezal playlist where people address the controversial issues of dolezal trying to pass as african-american. then there are also ones like this capitalize on previous hot trends to address her story. but despite telling her side of the story, if you don't remember that, remember when we were all luking at the dress, is it blue and black or white and gold so that's kind of a play on that. well, here's also the thing many think that dolezal is evading the question of why she did it to begin with.

still many on social media appreciate the questions her story has raised like what does it mean to be a specific race or more than one race and what does this say about race relations today and also you know, the topic of transracial. weapon talked about that yesterday, thomas. that's also been trending. some people saying you know, it doesn't even exist. finally, viewers have been weighing in on our bing question today. have rachel dolezal's answers changed your opinion of her? this after hearing from her specifically from these exclusive interviews here on msnbc. and here's how you're responding, the scoreboard. most of you have been saying that we can get control of that and put the scoreboard of up here right now and as we can see since i don't have control. there we go. 33% saying yes. 67% saying no. so that is what we're seeing as far as the outcome right now. we invite you to keep voting. thomas? >> you know, a lot of people find her either compelling or find her to be a punch line. if you look at a lot of this stuff out there on social media, it's pretty vicious.

so we will talk more about rachel dolezal, whether people feel she was a con artist or whether she was just trying to live her authentic life. francis, thanks. we're going to continue to follow other breaking news today. this story is coming out of texas because within the last hour we have tropical storm bill making landfall. the storm expected to bring heavy rain and flooding to areas impacted by floods last month. several states could be impacted like this. the weather channel's dave is live in texas. dave, what's the latest from there? we can see how intense the winds have become. >> good day, thomas. this is right in the thick of it. the storm wild bill coming ashore not far from where i'm standing just a matter of minutes ago. you can see we are still in the thick of the heavy bands with rain pelting me. if i turn this way it hits me like a sandblaster in my face. the storm, why is it so powerful? well, it actually comes down to this. if i touch the water here don't

want to get too close, i can feel it. it feels like bath water. buoys out there tell us that this water is between 83 and 84 degrees frnahrenheit. that is warmer than normal for temperatures here in the gulf. why does that matter? it is the gasoline. it's the fuel source that powers a tropical storm. the tropical storm will stand on top of this water, pull up the power from the heated pool underneath it the bath water,nd that is what powers it that's what makes it so powerful. thomas 35 million people are at risk of flooding today because, as you know texas can't stand any more rain and they're getting it right now. >> already saturated areas, for those viewers at home eing this live shot they've been trying to craft it. ingenious to keep your videographer in the vehicle. you all stay safe out there as we continue to follow this story. the weather channel, thank you.

turning now to breaking news overnight in the college town of berkeley, california. 21st birthday party went terribly wrong deadly after a balcony collapsed and killed six people. the victims are irish students in the u.s. on temporary visas. this is according to ireland's government. seven others were injured when the fourth floor balcony collapsed around 4:00 a.m. local time. >> looks like it may have collapsed from the fourth floor and then struck the third floor balcony just below it. but we don't know specifically, you know how it's happened at this point. >> and i said 4:00 a.m. local time, i meant 4:00 a.m. eastern, 1:00 a.m. local time in berkeley. police say many of the injured have critical life-threatening wounds. meanwhile, al qaeda has confirmed the death of the biggest u.s. kill since osama bin laden. nasr was killed in a u.s. drone strike last week. he led the group's affiliate yemen -- in yemen and number two overall in the organization.

his group did claim credit for the "charlie hebdo" attacks in january and it killed an american hostage after a failed rescue last year. he was also the m.s.er mind of the attempted underwear bombing in 2009. nbc's jim is joining me. how does this disable the affiliate based in yemen. >> u.s. officials tell nbc news and counter terrorism experts agree this is a very significant strike that not only was awa awaishi number two in yesterday but he was a head of the one terrorist organization in the world that poses the most serious threat to the american homeland al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. after all, they are the one group that as you mentioned a moment ago, actually have the wherewithal to attack the homeland with sophisticated, concealed bombs, the underwear

bomb, the printer cartridge bam, and even a vest suicide vest that could not be detected by metal detectors. while that still remains a threat, the feeling along counter terrorism officials is that with the killing of al wauhayshi in yemen the group itself is probably going to retreat for some period of time go underground and worry more about their own survival than attacking the united states any time soon. thomas? >> mik, thank you. when we come back we're going to return to our focus of the 11-damon hunty manhunt in a continued process as we look for these two men. we've got sweat and richard there still on the lam. how they were able to con a civilian on the inside. we're speaking about joyce mitchell as we learn more about her story. we're going to speak to an expert who literally wrote a book about the art of a con. nobody told us to expect it... intercourse that's painful due to menopausal changes

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you know we are now in day 11 in the search for david sweat and richard matt. authorities have yet to find any trace of the men. but as that search continues we are learning much more about the plot involving prison worker joyce mitchell a law enforcement source telling us that investigators are looking into allegations that mitchell may have wanted the inmates to kill her husband lyle mitchell after she helped them escape from prison. the district attorney says she has no comment on that but moments ago joyce mitchell's attorney spoke about his client's state. >> how is she doing? >> as i said she's distraught. she's very upset. she's very weepy and very upset. >> is she remorseful for helping this. >> i would say she is yes. >> gary cornealius, 27 years experience in corrections

experiences and author of "the art of the con." gary, it's great to have you with us. there we see the cover of your book "the art of the con" and what a fascinating read to learn about the mind of those that would want to manipulate and con others. explain from what you understand about these two characters, how were they able to manipulate someone like joyce mitchell? >> well, first of all, thank you for having me on and thank you for mentioning the book. i think what happened based on the news reports that i've been reading and keeping track of that they targeted her. these plots take -- these guys are in prison so these plots can take months maybe years. they look around they see who is weak they see who maybe is overly kind overly sympathetic. there's a difference between sympathy and empathy. empathy is, i know you're in prison, it's rough. this is a life-changing thing

you're going through. you're going to be here. you may die in prison. sympathy is, what can i do for you? i feel sorry for you. they looked for somebody who was exhibiting a type of sympathy. maybe they looked for her bending a rule. maybe they looked for her being very talkative about her personal life. they talk among themselves. they talk among the other inmates. and the inmate grapevine is very -- it spreads very fast. and somebody probably said oh, this -- she's allegedly charged and they probably said that let's hone in on her. one news report i said -- i read said that this goes back to -- sorry, 2013. and these things can take time. and they are very patient. in the correctional field we hear they have 24/7 to think about this. that's not a cliche. things -- >> they have nothing but time on their hands to figure out these plans. >> yes, sir. >> and we know, gary that the

district attorney spoke to nbc's miguel almaguer suggesting that matt and sweat may not have told joyce mitchell the entire plan. take a listen. >> maybe that was one of their plans, to provide her with very limited information. so if she were to not show up then she wouldn't disclose potential areas that they may have had a plan to go to. >> from the research from your book, is that how the con mind works, a bait and switch to be able to manipulate somebody in that's only helpful to you until a certain point? >> definitely because inmate manipulators, they use people. they had her believing that actually believing that she was going to have a life with them. and inwardly they're thinking okay, we'll string her along. she will do what we want her to do and we will use her for -- probably as long as we can. she is believing that,

otherwise, she's enamored with these guys. and once you are in the inmate's scheme, the web that they weave, you are trapped. you are in their world. control over your world anymore. you're in their world and very possible they did not take -- they did not take every -- give her all the details. and that's maybe why she had second thoughts. >> we're in day 11 right now. gary cornelius, thank you. i appreciate it. >> thank you, sir. coming up is it safe to swim after this weekend's shark attack off the carolina coast? two different attacks. oak island for an update. next hour major league security breach? we have the details on this wild investigation into the st. louis cardinals for allegedly spying on another team. but first, if you know me at all, you know i'm obsessed with the baltimore orioles. last night, a dream came true for this kid. i threw out the first pitch in front of family friends and fans in charm city.

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officials in coastal north carolina are warning beach goers against swimming in the waters today after two young swimmers lost limbs in shark attacks. a 12-year-old girl bitten by a shark sunday afternoon and then a 16-year-old attacked two miles away. officials say they were in waist-deep water about 20 yards offshore and listed now in good condition. nbc's dave wagner joins us live from oak island north carolina. you have been talking to those on the beach today. what have they been saying about why they want to be out there

today and how they feel about the water? >> reporter: record here in north carolina. 100 degrees right now. the surf it really looks refreshing and beach goers for the most part are steering clear of the water. >> we are still a little his tapt to get in since the attacks happened. considering that it was so close to where we swim it's a little scary to get back in the water. >> reporter: we should mention here that the beachers remainnin open here at oak island and not going out very far at all and concerned about the sharks around here. most people are. i'll point out here that the fishermen at the end of the pier right here they're very sensitive about being blamed for the shark attacks. they do chum the waters a bit out there and using large bait which does atrack sharks and i'll say i talked to the oak island police department and they tell me that you are allowed to chum anywhere along these beaches here and that's controversial with some of the residents who are concerned that

perhaps that is attracting sharks to this area and going on for a long time, thomas. >> appreciate your reporting. we'll have much more on the top story. the exclusive msnbc interview with rachel dolezal where she answers the question are you a con-artist. our bing question for you today and now you have a chance to hear from dolezal herself, have her answers changed your opinion about her? and then on a different note we have another contender in 2016. donald trump enters the race. >> i am officially running for president of the united states and we are going to make our country great again. >> chances, finances and how does trump compare to the rest of the field. put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. it's a wholesome blend of peanuts,

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welcome back to msnbc live. i'm thomas roberts reporting in washington today and we begin this hour with rachel dolezal. she was a little known civil rights activist from the pacific northwest and since the fudging of a question of her own race it went viral last thursday night and it's the topic of conversation seemingly everywhere. my colleague spoke with dolezal in a msnbc exclusive and asked her whether she was willfully deceptive about her true identity. >> are you a con artist? >> i don't think so. you know? i don't think anything that i have done with regards to the movement, my work my life my identity, i mean it's all been very thoughtful and careful. sometimes decisions have been made for survival reasons or protect people i love and all things included when it boils

down the entire world could say, stand down but when it comes to being there for my kids and my sister i will never stand down on that. it's been hard for me to actually have the courage to be there for myself. because my life and kind of my path, my journey has been to be so heavily aware of the needs of other people and trying to organize strategize and advocate for and protect those interests, and so at this point i'm kind of thrust into you know, are you going to be there for yourself or are you going to back down you know stand down stand up? what's going to happen? i've taken a personal and an organizational and in the last three days -- okay. here's family. here's naacp. police accountability.

my students. all these things. my work. and then here's my family and here's me. and what is in the big picture interest. and so my resignation yesterday i really came to see that and came from ultimately conversation with my oldest son. now's the time when like you should say something. >> so despite dolezal's whirlwind interviews to explain herself, reaction is mostly confusion and a lot of outrage and we want to ask you to head over to pulse.msnbc.com and ask let us know if the answers influenced your opinion of her self-declared black identity. joining us is emudi james.

what's your reaction now that we hear her explanation and her interpretation of her own identity? do you buy it? >> unfortunately, i don't. i can continue to be confused at her inability to acknowledge the pain that this has caused. she talked about understanding what many people need and black women are telling her she used lies to displace the voices of black women opposed to privilege to lift up and amplify the voices and that is not what women, black women, people of color need. and so -- i'm struggling with that. >> she's said she's gone there in her own black experience. i want you to take a listen to the national president and ceo of the naacp cornell williams brook had to say to my colleague just a short time ago. >> just because one appreciates african-american culture,

identifies with african-american culture does not give you an excuse to disrespect that culture. >> do you think that this is disrespectful, she is doing something that's mocking black culture? >> there is something mocking in it. sort of a minimalizing of it. doesn't matter. i could put it off. i can put it on. i can take it off. i think to respect black culture and even black struggle is to be who you are and use whatever gifts and prifvilege you have to bring that struggling to a larger stage and work to achieve some justice. there was lots of work to be done in the white community and they can hear it better from someone not african-american or black and so she could have done that work in the struggle. and that could have been the path she chose to advance justice for black people. >> professor of law at the university of miami, thank you for joining me today and invite the viewers to continue in with the bing pulse question of the day. you're going the see it on the

screen below me and you can go answer the question yourself. do rachel dolezal's answer ss support her view? and watch the interview tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. so on to politics now. where just a short time ago donald trump blew up social media. the donald appeared at one of his trump towers in manhattan and he spent time hitting both president obama and gop's newly announced jeb bush. but mostly spent the time touting himself and the trump brand. >> we need a leader that wrote the art of the deal. this is going to be an election in my opinion that's based on competence. i will be the greatest jobs

president that god ever created. i'm not using donors. i don't care. i'm really rich. i'm not doing that to brag because you know what? i don't have to brag. i don't have to. believe it or not. >> so d.c. bureau chief for "time" magazine and joins me now. great to see you especially in person. this speech got the crowds going and social media blowing up. donald trump trending number 1 on twitter. even though ted cruz went ahead to welcome him into the race online, though more people are cracking jokesality his expense. what do you think the weight of a donald trump does to the gop field? >> he's huge. >> he's huge. >> that's the most important thing to take away. he's big. better. the best. i think he's probably problematic for republicans. dnc put out a statement welcoming him to the race as well. very enthusiastic. i think he creates a problem on the stage because he's shown here he's willing to really take

some shots at his colleagues and he's kind of a loose cannon. there are a bunch of things he said in that speech and grading them they would be political failures and because he's donald trump, he's a reality show host incredibly entertaining and huge and let it pass. if he makes it on to the debate stage, it could be problematic. >> not afraid to take swipes and within his own party, we know he's going to take them at the left, for sure. >> sure. >> take a listen to how he talked about jeb bush during that speech. >> bush is totally in favor of common core. i don't see how he can possibly get the nomination. he is weak on immigration. he's in favor of common core. how the hell can you vote for this guy? >> okay. so conservatives do make statements like that. maybe not that verbiage. but does trump really help or hurt in that line of attack? >> well, so the way trump approaches these things is to insult people. if you follow the twitter

account, he criticizes you. small, lame. i'm huge. that's sort of his way of going about it. i think in a republican field, that isn't really helpful at this stage. that comes later on but you want to respectful debate. it's very possible that he gets some populous support and may bring people into the primary process not a part of it otherwise. >> right. >> but in the long run, i don't think he's someone that a lot of his colleagues in the gop are looking forward to dealing with. >> stick around. because i want your reaction to this. my colleague francis is back in new york at world headquarters and she has a look at how trump shapes up against other republican candidates out there. and where he has and we keep saying the word huge over and over again with the funny way he says it. he has a huge advantage. >> it's no "h." he might have less political experience than others in the field but one thing he does have

is name recognition and cash. something he didn't shy away from mentioning in today's press conference and coming to those dollar signs, can trump be trumped? take a look. trump is worth really big bucks but today he declared just under $9 billion in net worth. a whole lot of zeros there making him the wealthiest republican candidate for president. he is in a totally different stratosphere than any other candidate. each dollar sign you see represents $500,000. half a million. so look where he stands here. senator ted cruz net worth is more than $3 million. that's a lot and still 35,000th of 1% of trump's $9 billion net worth. see a trend with other senators who have declared. see the fraction of wealth of percentages here and smaller and smaller all the way down to senator bernie sanders so trump, he might dominate financially but he doesn't trump other

candidates in the polls. only 23% of people said that they could support trump in our march nbc news/"wall street journal" poll and 74% said they could not support him. take a look on the average. he's still polling in the top 10% of republican candidates here. so that makes him as we were talking about eligible to participate in fox and nbc debates and look at the ranking from 1 to 10. donald trump, ranks ninth with 3.6%. so thomas you look at this breakdown and the numbers and money and consider it's not the first time he's flirted with the presidency. he explored runs in 2000 and 2012. he has a so-called draft trump movement in the late '80s that may have planted the seed to bring us to this very day on his huge official announcement. it's huge. right? no "h." >> he is a flirt, for sure. thanks so much. michael remains with me.

so he's going to go back to iowa and new hampshire and south carolina. his star presence in these very important primary states does what for gop smaller candidates? >> it probably makes them more serious in the short term. a lot of people on the outside, ben carson can actually show themselves to be more of a politician next to donald trump and takes away a lot of oxygen. a lot of candidates are fighting for name i.d. the fight in the republican party to get into the debates and that 3% is almost certainly going to rise with the media exposure of this week for him. >> sure. >> so, you know if you're ka fiorina trying to get into the top ten, he is not good for you. >> takes oxygen for sure. michael, greet see you. thanks so much. a day after his big kickoff jeb bush was in new hampshire taking questions at a town hall event. covered a lot of what his speech happened to portray on monday and he talked about his record as florida's governor and

generally a positive tone throughout. one new bit, he discussed the family's own experience with hackers and this occurred at a time when his father the former president was ill. >> well it turns out there was a hacker from overseas that hacked into my sister's aol account and then got all of the e-mails that took place in this really traumatic kind of you know personal time. and it brought -- it brought home to me this danger. >> you know just a few moments ago, bush's father former president george h.w. bush tweeted the following. yesterday, the country saw a great leader and a good man point the way to a better future. i 578 one of the two proudest parents in america today. up next new questions about the woman accused of aiding two escaped murderers, get out, free and clear from prison. did she want the convicted killers to actually kill her current husband? plus a psychiatrist in the

trial of accused movie theater shooter james holmes. the doctor that trooeted him before that attack. also ahead -- >> 911, what is your emergency? >> we have somebody, a shark. there's a shark attack. >> so after these two shark attacks on the north carolina coast, jeff rossen looks at what you can do to protect yourself in the water. we'll be right back. what do a nascar® driver... a comedian... and a professional golfer have in common? we talked to our doctors about treatment with xarelto®. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® has also been proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke.

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now to breaking news on tropical storm bill making landfall roughly an hour ago in texas. and heavy rain and winds, they're pounding parts of the state and look at there on doppler and we see that state and coastal flooding has been reported now along the upper texas coastline.

tropical storm warnings in effect. classes have been canceled in and around the houston area and charles hadlock joins us now in houston. as bill makes landfall charles, what are officials say thinking're most concerned about? >> reporter: bill making landfall about 100 miles southwest of houston. so here we're not concerned about storm surge or wind damage but it's the torrential rains that can come with the tropical storm that has everyone here on edge and the next six to 12 hours are going to be critical for the houston area because out in the gulf of mexico right now is a large band of rain that's going to sling across southeast texas as it enters the rest of texas. how much rain houston will get is the big question. houston can handle about two inches of rain per hour without flooding. more than that we'll have street flooding. the issue is you remember three weeks ago houston inundated. the soil is still very moist. the bayous are still very full. it is a big question of how much

rainfall houston can handle in the next six to 12 hours from now. and on top of all of that the national weather service and the storm prediction center issued a tornado watch that extends from roughly east texas all the way to austin and the gulf of mexico and alert here in southeast texas, thomas. >> we understand that. charles hadlock in houston, thank you. we move on to this developing news where a federal judge sentenced a man charged with climbing over the white house fence in september and sentenced to 17 months in prison. 43-year-old gonzalez pleaded guilty he jumped over the executive mansion's fence and ran into the white house east room wielding a knife. he said he wanted to tell the president that the atmosphere was collapsing. potentially damning and twisted new developments in the investigation into two escaped killers. just moments ago, the attorney for joyce mitchell responded to these new questions about reports that mitchell wanted the

inmates matt and suite to escape from jail and then kill her husband. a law enforcement source tells nbc news that investigators are looking into those allegations. however, mitchell's attorney says this. >> i don't know very much about it other than i believe it's specious, specious argument. that's about all i can tell you. >> msnbc's adam reiss is tracking the worst and then i'm going to talk to larry lawton about life as an inmate and survival skills they develop behind bars. adam, let's start with you and what the attorney had to say and about mitchell's condition. >> reporter: good afternoon, thomas. he says she is very distraught upset, weepy, remorseful. that she helped them escape. nbc news also learned investigators are looking into the possibility that she may have wanted these two convicted killers to kill her own husband

lyle. this same lyle who just visited her in clinton county jail came out and told the attorney who told us that she'she's still very supportive of her. thomas? >> adam how's the weather right now? might have cleared up a bit. >> reporter: it did. but it ranled all day and we expect more rain this afternoon. the conditions out there where the searchers are and where these escapees might be are not good. conditions are not favorable, thomas. >> okay. all right. so adam thanks so much. i want to bring in larry lawton a former federal prisoner in jail for 11 years for jewelry theft. great to have you here. as we think about the guys on the run now. 11 days. how do you think they've been able to outsmart more than 800 law enforcement officials, nearly 1,000 tips that have come in to help investigators track them down? how are they alluding the cops? >> well, you know, thomas i get

asked that question all the time on the road speaking. and just to give you an idea people ask me how tattoos are done actually in prison. and, you know, it is amazing. you could take a toothbrush bend it a pen, a motor, right off of a trimmer that you can get off the commissary and you put two batteries to it and you have a motor with a guitar string as the needle to actually do tattoos. you get the ink by using melted chess pieces or grease, hair grease that's burnt and comes up as soot and put in water. other things, you know they're so -- these guys are adept of making things out of nothing. here's a battery. take off the tops. put a piece of cellophane from a pack of cigarettes and you actually put this on fire and you take a piece of sheet, you

burn the piece of sheet and you can actually boil water in prison in an isolation cell. you can get razor blades right off of a razor, thomas and, you know these guys understand patience. they understand how to survive. they're the ultimate survivors. >> is that -- these example that is you're giving us larry, that's why you they're so crafty and able to use uncommon ways uncommon survival skills that these hundreds of law enforcement officials aren't thinking of that they're staying a step or two ahead of them at all turns? >> you have to understand something. first of all i think it's very well planned out. i never thought they were there. i hoped they were. i still hope they are and i have a feeling they're long gone. i think they planned this so well and they have survival skills. people say they're not survivalists. people in prison are the best survivalists in the world. they have patience and more about the mental aspect thomas. remember, a guy'd lay under a

car for two days with half a snicker bar not to move not to get caught and they have the mental training and did it for so many years in incarceration. you're in a cell. you become very very able to do something with nothing. they don't have food or anything. they do. >> and mitchell joyce mitchell do you think she's the ultimate red herring in all of this and able to bait and switch her into believing that they were all going to go away together or possibly even now these new allegations of some nefarious plot to eliminate her husband? do you think the intent all along she was collateral damage with a "a" plan and she wasn't part of it. >> i think they had a couple of plans. she wouldn't be here today. they would have did that. i think they had an alternate plan whether it was -- i still believe there was cell phones

involved, other people involved with communications on the outside. you don't set something like this up. this e lab rat without an outside contact. it is get out and go somewhere. they'll be found and where we don't know. >> larry, former federal prison prisoner, now a motivational speaker. thank you for the show and tell as they remain on the run 11 days. amazing. thanks again. now we move on to this story and got everybody wondering, is there hacking in baseball? the allegation that is have the fbi and the justice department investigating the cardinals front office. also ahead, melissa harris perry's exclusive sbe view with rachel dolezal and answering to a past lawsuit of howard university claiming discrimination.

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in the balcony collapse in berkeley overnight. six people confirmed dead. eight others injured happening around 1:00 a.m. local time there in a 21st birth day party. at least five of the dead are irish students here on temporary visas. we have updates on the "dark knight" movie theater shooting that happened in colorado and inside the courtroom there where a crucial witness has taken the stand. she's the doctor who had sessions with james holmes saw him five times and had homicidal thoughts. >> i had the impression they'd been there for quite a while, at least many months. >> okay. maybe years? >> maybe years, yes. >> prosecutors say that holmes with held key details of the illness from the doctor. holmes pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity in the movie

theater shooting where 12 people died. young residents taking to the streets of california to speak up for a 13-year-old runaway tased by a san diego deputy. the incident was captured on camera. we want to warn you what you are about to see might be hard to watch. nbc news did not confirm what happened before the camera captured the deputy tasing the boy. the sheriff's deputy defended the actions saying that the boy who they say is a repeat runaway tried to evade custody and bit the officer in the struggle. the boy faces charges of resisting arrest with injury to a deputy. up next much more of melissa harris-perry's exclusive interview with former spokane naacp leader rachel dolezal and reaction to her from her words to -- as we sit down with her

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that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. welcome back. eyebrows were certainly raised when it was revealed that rachel dolezal sued howard university for racial discrimination. was she trying to claim reverse discrimination? according to court documents she claimed discrimination based on race pregnancy, family responsibility and gender and retaliation and ultimately the suit dismissed by a federal judge. the documents do not mention her being white or caucasian and indicate she was discriminated against partly because she was not african-american and here's more from the exclusive with rachel dolezal explaining how that suit came about. >> the other piece of this then is the new revelation about a --

excuse me, a suit over and against howard law school -- excuse me, howard university during the the time you were a student there. >> right. >> again, people pointing to that as though it's about you attempting purposely to profit from a racial identity. talk to me about this. >> well i was seven months pregnant and, actually helped cat liz the first howard university on artist academy over the summer before the second year of grad school. super proud of that. high school students that have potential, artistic potential, experimenting in college and we had a whole show 23-hour day. on my feet. seven months pregnant. framing this work. you know? i love students. i love art. and so right after that i go into the office and kind of just like okay everything's go with financial aid. a full ride. teaching position. i just got done doing this kind

of brand new, you know summer program. so i'm feeling really good. but i wanted to just, you thinkknow, check in and the director says no, you don't -- what scholarship? what teaching position? and at that point, as a -- with seven months pregnant female you know? i'm like ah. he said come back when you're back in shape and have a 1-year-old. and other people need opportunities for the teaching position and you have white relatives so you probably, you know, they probably can afford to financially assist you. you know i said no. i'm -- i need to finish on time. i have a plan. and i need to -- i cannot -- we had like oatmeal in the cupboard. seriously. like that was -- like a quaker oats container.

we were in survival mode. as a family. >> so you can watch the full interview on all in with chris hayes tonight 8:00 p.m. eastern and back to manhattan and francis who sat down with rachel's estranged brother, her brother ezra. francis? >> we did, thomas. he says he hasn't seen or spoken to his sister for four years but he is fiercely critical of rachel's claim she is black and he called her transformation a slap in the face. here's part of our conversation. >> ezra thanks for being here with us and taking the time to chat with us. we have heard from rachel and made it clear, yes, she says she is black. do you view your sister as black or white? >> i view her as -- i view her as white pretending to be black. i have never really viewed her as black. she was interested in african-american studies and trying to help with fixing

racism and stuff but i've never really viewed her as actually black. i've always viewed her as white. >> you said before that she always considered herself as white, how far do you recall? you were adopted when you were 15. >> when she was 15. >> when do you first remember her identifying as black. >> 2011 definitely. >> in interviews she said as early as 5 years old, she was coloring and drawing pictures of herself and never pick the peach crayon but the brown kay crayon and black curly hair as a child. do you remember as a child instances when she would identify and call herself black? >> i wasn't alive when she was a child. my parents said there were no signs of her doing that. i mean those picture that is she said she drew, i mean those i'm -- those are actually not -- i'm pretty sure not real. those are only now recently been

now all of a sudden she drew it when she was 5. pretty sure they would have been lying around or my my parentings would have had them and never did. >> she is bringing up isaiah. she is your adopted brother. she fought for custody and calls her son. in fact isaiah with her for some of the interviews. how much of a role did they play? as she identifies or calls isaiah a son, that caused friction in your family even legally. >> oh yeah. she pretty much manipulated and lied to actually be able to get custody of isaiah. she tried to turn everybody against my parents and tried to lie and say they were abusive and stuff to try to be able to gain custody of isaiah and they didn't want a bad relationship with rachel they let her have isaiah and not fight through the courts because they probably would have won and never been able to talk to rachel ever again. but rachel still even though my parents did give her isaiah she

still actually has, like not talked to them for a listening time. >> if you happen to run into her, what would you say? is there hope for reconciliation reconciliation? i have no idea. i don't know if she wants to talk to the family. >> what would you say to her if you step out and you do see her? >> i honestly have no idea actually. i haven't talked to her in a four years. it's been a while. >> all right. that was ezra dolezal, rachel's brother. she is trending with over 660,000 tweets. one user tweeted in response to the interview today, quote, i have a black child. i love black culture. i have performed with black artists but i am not black. others are asking if a person is transgendered, why not transracial? 23,000 tweets sent on that. with reaction on social media, we are asking people your

reaction to our bing pulse question today. after hearing her, have her words changed your opinion on her? take a look at the scoreboard as we ask the question. this is how we're voting and fluctuating and this is what keeps dropping and this is what keeps rising. 29% who say, yes, those opinions have changed and 71% of you say, no, they have not. keep your votes coming. pulse.msnbc.come to join the conversation with your opinions thomas. >> amazing sitdown with the brother there revealing interesting family insights. going to break here's a look at other story that is caught our eye. first lady obama is in england with her mom and daughters on the schedule a roundtable meeting on investing in girls' education and also tea with the girls' favorite spare to the heir, prince harry. and speaking of british redheads crooner ed shea ran

joined a fan on stage at a mall for a duet. he heard her belting out the hit "thinking outloud" and helped her finish the tune. and to her credit she calmly sang along. good for her. i'm obsessed with the baltimore orioles and last night it was a thrilling dream come true. i threw out the first pitch at camden yards. in front of thousands of fans and friends and family. o's super star third baseman took the field with me and the orioles beat the phillies in the game 4-0. but look at this. some very very inspiring true talent, this incredible first pitch at the giants game last night. tom was born without arms and used his feet to do just about everything and go on the national tour to bring recognition to the persons with disabilities. congrats to him.

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so al qaeda has confirmed the death of the biggest u.s. kill since osama bin laden. he was killed in a u.s. drone strike last week and led the affiliate in yemen and number two overall in the organization. the group claimed credit for the charlie hebdo attacks in january. he was also the master mind of the attempted underwear bombing in 2009. all right. so we take a look at texas right now. continue to follow the breaking developments on tropical storm bill. that storm making landfall just over an hour ago. heavy rain and wind are pounding parts of the state and coastal flooding has been reported along the upper texas coastline. and to north carolina where officials warn beach goers against swimming in the waters today. you recall two young swimmers

lost limbs in a pair of shark attacks minutes apart and both reportedly now in good condition and now there's concerns and fears over going into the water. but the reality is sharks are always around especially in certain places but did you know there is one color to avoid wearing? nbc's jeff rossen reports. >> reporter: the latest attacks just days ago. not just one swimmer but two. >> 911, what is your emergency? >> we have somebody. a shark. there's a shark attack. >> reporter: frantic 911 calls pouring in. >> there's a girl whose hand's been bitten off by a shark. >> reporter: the teenagers swimming in shallow waters off the popular beach in north carolina. mauled just an hour apart. >> the left arm is completely missing and a bite to the left leg. 13-year-old, weak pulse. >> reporter: both survive the brutal bites but the damage was done. to give you an idea how often it's happening, consider this.

16 attacks reported so far in the u.s. this year alone. from florida to hawaii and the carolinas. and the summer is just starting. >> so you're ready for this? >> reporter: as ready as i'm going to be. this is the best decision of my life or the absolute worst. once jumping into shark-infested waters right here on "today." i did it with shark experts and the american tourists paying big bucks for the thrill of it. swimming with these maneaters, no cage at all. >> okay. this is scary. whoa! >> reporter: one shark coming so close it head butts our camera. >> trying to keep a safe distance but you can see the sharks are everywhere. you can't avoid them. you can't avoid them. >> reporter: how do you protect yourself if you ever come face to face with a shark? there are things you can do before you even get in the water, right? >> yes.

>> reporter: on the beach with steve kessel a shark scientist with 14 years experience. >> the first thing is avoid wearing lots of shiny jewelry. the sun reflecting can mistake it for a fish. >> reporter: a color any sn. >> a theory of yum yum yellow attracted but it could be any bright colors. >> there's a time of day you shouldn't be in the ocean. >> you really want to avoid dusk and dawn. this is the time they're most active and most likely to be feeding. >> reporter: if i'm in the water an i see a shark, i know myself one of two things paralyzed by fear and high tailing it out frantic. what are you supposed to do? >> worst thing is swimming. thinking about a dog, run away from the dog, it chases after you and likely bite you. if you face a dog, it keeps the distance. do the same thing with the shark. face it. keep in it eyesight and back up as calmly as you can to shore. >> reporter: what if it's aggressive, up in your face or

bites you? punch it in the nose? >> you do want to attack the shark, go on the offensive the eyes and the gills. more sensitive and more likely to ward it off. >> get to the shark in the eyes and the gills? >> yes. >> all right. that was nbc's jeff rossen reporting in a wetsuit. the st. louis cardinals you should investigation by the fbi and the justice department. we're going to take a look at the allegations against team's front office. what is it all about? coming up at 3:00 p.m. eastern, "orange is the new black" actress joins the table.

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a astros. i want to bring in cindy bourne. what are they allegedly looking for here? >> well, general manager of the astros worked for the cardinals and a former tech worker. and he knows a lot about technology. one of his brain children with the cardinals was the creation of a big database to look at the thousands of players, evaluate them. you can show the information among other people in your organization. and he went to houston to become the general manager and he took the same idea to houston. and he created this massive database called ground control. that everyone could access with one password. and guess what. people in st. louis were able to figure out what that password was and, you know -- >> whoa.

>> exactly. what they got out of it we don't know yet. >> they say he or she who has the data wins and in all cases and, cindy, looking at the cardinals they released a statement saying the cardinals are aware of the investigation into the security breach of the houston astros' database. the team has fully cooperated with the investigation and will continue to do so. the advantage of hacking another team is just completely to get the data? i mean the unknown of the known, basically. >> you know it's kind of head scratching because frankly, the cardinals one of the best teams in baseball since the 2000s began. the a astros have gotten good. and it's curious why they feel need the cardinals to do this. if the databases are comparable not sure why the cardinals would

do that. you know? there's also animosity evidently with the general manager and the cardinals so a lot of things at play here. >> the commissioner expected to address the media shortly. we'll cover that here msnbc. cindy, nice to see you today. thank you. >> thank you. that's going to wrap up things for today's show. see you back here tomorrow. 1:00 p.m. eastern. tomorrow i'll introduce you to adopted child doe, the youngest plaintiff in the case before supreme court. meet cooper. keep the conversation going on social media. hang, gang. >> hey, thomas. >> we saw you working overtime. >> you like that? >> first pitch for the baltimore orioles. there you are. nice work. >> great throw, thomas. >> nailed it. >> thank you. thank you. icing down my arm tonight. throwing out for the nats tomorrow night. >> hardest working man in show business. >> exactly. see what happens. thanks guys.

>> take care. today, we'll have the latest on day 11 of the manhunt for those two escaped convicts in upstate new york. we have a star of "orange is the new black" and i'm going to explain the question that we are all missing in the 2016 election. that's coming up. guys, it's just the two of you. the setting is just right. but here's the thing, about half of men over 40 have some degree of erectile dysfunction. well, viagra helps guys with

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away without any new clues. hundreds of law enforcement officers conducted an exhaustive search of 13 square miles in upstate new york and the cost of searching such a small area is huge. a million dollars a day. but new york's governor andrew cuomo admits authorities don't know if the men are in that search area or mexico by now. the d.a. says that it is very possible that the men are no longer in new york. and the focus now is on the possibility of additional accomplices. the idea that these guys had more help than just prison worker joyce mitchell. the clinton county sheriff says mitchell, quote, was the backup plan, not the front plan. investigators are also taking another look at the manhole where the pair managed to escape trying to figure out if the locks were cut from the outside or the inside. that's an important distinction in this investigation. we start today near the search area in new york.