>> it's time for morning chat. it's time for "the rundown." starts now. good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. what might be a major development in the search for two convicted killers who escaped from an upstate prison more than two weeks ago. nbc news confirming this morning that there was a cabin break-in in the mountain view owl's head area of new york. a single individual fled the scene as they opened the camp on saturday. a manhunt in that area intensifying as we speak. we will have more on that later in the rundown. now to developments surrounding words of hate and words of healing coming out of south carolina. the words getting the most attention this morning are from president obama in a new radio interview. using a highly charged word to drive home his point about racism in america. >> the legacy of slavery, jim

crowe, discrimination in almost every institution of our lives, that casts a long shadow and that's still part of our dna that's passed on. we're not cured of it. >> racism? >> racism. we are not cured of it clearly. and it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say [mute] in public. that's not the measure of whether racism still existeds or not or a matter of overt discrimination. societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior. >> at the same time we're learning more today about the alleged gunman from wednesday's massacre in charleston dylann roof. through the manifesto attributed to him online although not confirmed by nbc, it includes dozens of photos of the

21-year-old holding guns and confederate flags and 2500 words that expose a sharply racist idealology. we're following that from charleston. kristin, we heard this president many times on race but this is different. >> reporter: this is different. this is sort of the strongest language we have heard from president obama when it comes to talking about race and racial tensions. the white house says he has used the n word in his book. this is of course though the first time that we have heard him utter that word publicly. the president of course not using it flippantly. he was talking about it in an intellectual context to shed some light on this country's long and enduring country with racism in the president's opinion. of course we've heard president obama talk about race in the wake of trayvon martin in the wake of the baltimore riots for example, but again this is some of the strongest language we have heard from him. white house officials we

anticipate will give us a little more insight, a little more context into why president obama wanted to use that term. white house press secretary said about 12:30 start. reaction is starting to trickle in. harold ford said he may have chosen a different word. still the massacre in south carolina has put this issue at the fore, jose, so the president and a number of leaders are going to be talking about this issue in days to come and likely using more strong and complicated language. >> i want to play a little more from the president in that interview. take a listen. >> unfortunately, the grip of the nra on congress is extremely strong. i don't foresee any legislative action being taken in this congress. i don't foresee any real action being taken until the american public feels a sufficient sense

of urgency and they say to themselves this is into the normal. this is something that we can change and we're going to change it. >> essentially the president admitting he has very little input on this specific issue. >> reporter: that's right. you're hearing from a president who has resigned essentially when it comes to this issue and the context there, jose is you have to go back to 2012 and the sandy hook massacre which claimed the lives of 20 children. in the wake of that president obama pushed for stronger gun legislation, stronger gun laws including expanded background checks. there was bipartisan support for that by the way, but ultimately it didn't get enough votes to pass through congress. we have heard president obama recently say if that can't change people's minds, if that can't call for and bring about stronger gun laws what can. so you're hearing president obama essentially say there's just no appetite for new laws in this congress. what's interesting, he's setting it up as an issue in 2016. we heard hillary clinton talk about the need for stronger gun

laws over the weekend. republicans have stayed sigh leapt silent on the issue but this could be a hot button issue in 2016. >> in charleston the healing has begun although there's so much information coming out from the alleged gunman. craig, can you hear me? >> reporter: i do have you, jose. could you repeat what you just said for me though? >> i was just talking about as we talk about the president and his statement on guns and also on racism in general, we're learning a lot more in charleston about the alleged gunman what he allegedly thinks and the healing process that has already begun. >> reporter: we are, in fact. over the weekend as you mentioned earlier, there was a 2500-word hate-filled manifesto that was discovered online. police sources believe that the shooter himself did, in fact write that. meanwhile though we continue to

see here in charleston here in the holy city, folks answering hate with love. from heart break to healing, thousands took to the streets and highways of charleston walking in a massive unity chain sunday night. just hours after mother emanuel church opened its doors for its first worship service since the tragedy. >> a lot of folks expected us to do something strange and to break out in a riot. well, they just don't know us. >> reporter: among the crowds south carolina's governor, one of its senators and the long-time mayor of charleston. >> it broke our hearts in charleston, but it's broken hearts in america. >> some who lost family members in the attack like alana simmons, just had to be there. >> my grandfather loved charleston and to see what an

example they have been to the nation, his heart would just be so full. >> reporter: across the city bells tolled at many of charleston's other historic churches for nine minutes, one for each victim. including the church where the alleged shooter's family worshipped. >> we're in solidarity with the nine families who lost loved ones and we stand in amazement at the gift of forgiveness that they've already expressed in such an open way. >> reporter: meanwhile over the weekend more disturbing images surfaced of 21-year-old dylann roof posing with guns con federal flags. there's also a 2500 word manifesto that perhaps lays out his motive for mass murder. sources have attributed it to roof but it hasn't been verified by nbc news with passages including, quote, someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world and i guess that has to be me.

his apparent obsession with the confederate flag has inspired a move to remove all government flag locations in south carolina. that petition that moveon.org petition, at last check it garnered more than a half million signatures. i talked to a state lawmaker last night and asked him about the possibility of legislation being introduced. lawmakers are going to be around in the next several days to handle benchudgetary issues. he said it's possible but not likely. we have been told there's a new news conference set for here in north charleston where state lawmakers are expected to lay out their plans. we'll have much more on that coming up a little later. jose? >> craig in charleston and from the white house, kristin welker thank you both very much for being with me. i want to get your reaction to the president's interview and his thoughts on race. we have a bing pulse question on

the topic of race and the president's remarks. the question, do you find the president's use of the n word acceptable? i want to know what you think. head to pulse.msnbc.com and we'll bring you the results later this hour. right now i want to bring in "washington post" opinion writer jonathan kay part. good morning. >> good morning. >> what do you think about the president's use of the n word? >> we have to look at the way the president used it in context. he's using it in an intellectual way. because no one uses that word in polite company as the president said anymore, to hear it come out of anyone's mouth but particularly the president of the united states and especially this president of the united states, it takes you by the lapels and it shakes you. it wakes you to the fact that he's trying to make a clear -- the clear comment here that it's not just that people don't hurl the n word around anymore. it's that racism rears its ugly

head in much more subtle ways and that we have to deal with that if we're ever going to start taking the steps to heal. >> and that's interesting because some are saying that you could have that intellectual conversation without using the word. what you're saying is that the word needs to have context and if the context is appropriate, the word then is appropriate to use? >> let's think of it this way, jose. 50 years ago a public official using the n word would have been customary. no one would have batted an eye. we have advanced as a country to the point where that is no longer acceptable. but there are other instances of racism that haven't been addressed and no one talks about, so when the president makes the point using that word because as we know this president is very deliberate in the words that he uses. when he uses that word, he's trying to make it clear that even though those days are gone when people used to drop that

word like confetti there are other instances of racism that we have to pay attention to. so he's setting up a die cot me that the country has to deal with. hillary clinton in her speech at the conference of mayors on saturday i thought did a very good job in reminding everyone that in order to combat racism we have to start speaking out. we have to start speaking out when someone uses -- makes racist comments or racist jokes. only then will we start to heal. >> jonathan the use of the word like confetti to use your sentence, should be off limits regardless of the color of your skin? >> absolutely. i'm one of those people who at the sight of the word hearing the word it jars me. it's uncomfortable. i don't use it. but the president has used the

word in his book. he used it in his interview. he's not using it in a casual fashion. he's using it in a manner to educate -- >> to make a point. >> and to make a point. in that case i can accept it. i wouldn't use it but i can accept it. and i understand why he used that word. >> jonathan thank you. it's a pleasure to see you. >> thanks a lot, jose. to developing news from overseas. this morning the taliban is claiming responsibility for a brazen and bloody attack on the afghan parliament. let's get right to aman. >> by any measure of the word this was a spectacular attack taking part in the heart of kabul while parliament was in session. it was captured live on tv. take a look. [ bomb explodes ]

>> that was the speaker of the afghan parliament. after the explosion you can see the debris and dust and hear the loud screams of some of the mmps. none of them were injured. according to afghan police there was a vehicle-born device that was detonated outside that caused that explosion. six members of the taliban tried to storm the building. they were gunned down and according to police all six or seven members of the attackers were killed and about 18 or so civilians were injured, including five women and children. no members of the parliament who were evacuated to a nearby building were injured. but it does give you a sense of the capabilities of the taliban carrying out a brazen attack like this in broad daylight in the capitol on a well secured building like the national parliament. >> this is just really the

latest of a string of attempts by the taliban to take kabul. >> there's no doubt about it that over the past year attacks by the taliban have become more brazen and spectacular, not just in kabul, the capitol city but all across the country. we know that the northwest provinces of the country have fallen to taliban control. there's a push by the taliban to take the southwest part of the country. despite the fact that the afghan national security forces were able to repel this attack across the country the taliban continues to be on the offensive, this after the united states and other allies have withdrawn from that country. >> thank you. we are just getting started on this very busy monday edition of the rundown. up next a possible break in the search for two escaped prisoners in upstate new york. police actively investigating a cabin that was broken into. plus it's decision day at the supreme court. we're waiting for word on

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and developing now in new york, a dramatic turn in the search for two convicted killers who escaped from an upstate prison two weeks ago. state troopers actively investigating a break-in in the town of mountain view not far from the canadian border. at the same time on the opposite side of the state, officials are investigating a possible sighting reported by a woman in the town of friendship which is just north of pennsylvania. david sweat and richard matt have been on the run since the 6th of june. i want to bring in former fbi

profiler, clint van assistantsant. >> hi, jose. >> police are looking at two separate parts of new york for these convicts. what do you make of this? >> if you're a betting man you got to figure out where you're going to put your money and in in case where you're going to put 800 officers trying to find these two guys. safe money says there's no evidence that they hijacked a car, got a ride jumped a train, anything else outside of the prison. so safe smart money says they're still somewhere around that prison area which makes that cabin sighting a good bet. but, you know if you want to hedge your bet a little bit, you say they had a plan a, plan b. we know joyce mitchell may have been plan a. perhaps she was going to drive them from the area. but maybe they had somebody else. it was an elaborate plan to get out, was there an elaborate plan to get going once they got out? so that's why law enforcement, they've got enough resources. every time they've got a good plausible hit, and i saw the

interview of the woman in the southern part of the state. i mean she described the people she saw, the two men she saw, they really sound like the two escapees. so that was a good bet. that's why 300 investigators went down there. but once again, we're right back in that large perimeter around that prison still thinking they may be here. a cabin in the woods would be a good bet for these guys to have hid out the last 17 days. >> as we look at the map there, this cabin in the woods is relatively close to the correctional facility and then that cabin in turn close to the canadian boreder. they're clearly now, i'm sure clint, looking at not only the physical evidence maybe left behind but forensics right now really important. >> yeah. and part of that forensics, as you know jose is actually proving they're there. we all followed that terrible quadruple murder story in

washington d.c. a few weeks ago where an entire family-plus was murdered, and we know that the person who committed that crime was identified by his dna that was on a piece of pizza. law enforcement will be looking for that same thing inside of this cabin. are there fingerprints is there dna from one or both of the individuals. they need something solid after 17 days to say we can absolutely forensically put one or both of these guys in this cabin as late as perhaps saturday. >> clint, do things change if these guys do cross -- guys or guy -- cross into canada? does it change the investigation? >> well, we know that the rcmp and canadian authorities have been on the alert, too. they've been leaning forward in that proverbial saddles looking at the border from the canadian side expecting these two may

make a run and try to get across. as you know there's not a huge fence line. there's a porous border. we don't expect to be attacked by canada. so the reality is they could slip across. but the canadians have got great investigators up there and they'll do their share of the work to try to get these guys in custody also. >> and clint, your gut tells you they're still together or split? >> still together i think. if they had reason to get far away from this area where they didn't need each other's support, okay you sleep 8 hours and i'll stay awake and then flip-flop in case we hear somebody they need each other right now. when that need goes away, i think they would leave each other. >> clint van sant, thank you. after the break we're going to take you live to the supreme court. the next hour we could get word about several key decisions, among the cases, the affordable care act and same sex marriage.

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developing this morning at the supreme court, a high stakes decision day as we await the fate of 11 remaining cases that will impact millions of americans no matter how the court decides. one would impact the president's signature healthcare law and 6.4 million who currently get subsidies from the federal government to cover part of their health insurance costs. the other potential blockbuster case the future of same sex marriage, will it become legal today across the country? let's head to the supreme court and our chief legal correspondent. good morning. let's talk about king versus burr well. what's at stake? >> reporter: the healthcare that millions of americans currently use with money they receive from the federal government in those states that didn't set up their own exchange. the court will today or next

monday -- we're down to the home stretch -- decide if that money has to go away. people would lose the subsidies and their healthcare. or the court could say, mistake or not, this law stands and they don't make any changes to subsidies going out to millions of americans. >> if they rule against it what are the practical -- what's the practical impact on people? >> reporter: the practical impact of a straight ruling against it would be huge because it would essentially say starting the moment of that ruling as early as you said in the next hour that those subsidies are not legal, they're not authorized by congress. they would have to be unwound unless congress stepped in and made a change which many people think is unlikely. >> let's talk about the same sex marriage issue. what exactly is at issue here? >> reporter: this is a huge case that many people see as a potential complete change in the way that our national government in every state would recognize marriage because it is possible

that the court will say there is one standard now, one national standard for same sex marriage allowing it in all 50 states. that would be the farthest the court could go. it could also just as in the other case leave the law as where 37 states have acknowledged same sex marriage either through state legislatures or the courts while other states have not. finally a sort of a middle ground which we do see the court take from time to time. it could rule that states could decide marriage for themselves but if there's a same sex marriage performed in another state, other states then have to recognize it. that's sort of the goldie lox decision that some are not expecting because it's a bit of a mix. >> that would essentially make it a 50-state deal. >> reporter: many critics of same sex marriage say that's basically go all the way without having the guts to call it a national ruling. it would allowed people to go out of state to get married and

be recognized in their state. big decisions coming down. >> thank you. we're going to check back with you as these decisions come in. you can catch arie every afternoon on the cycle. 45 million people at risk of severe weather today. an area stretching from minneapolis to detroit including chicago facing damaging winds, large hail and potential tornados. with the greatest threats of tornados expected in southern wisconsin later this afternoon, heavy rain also bringing threats of flash flooding. and developing now in california, thousands of fire crews have worked through the night to control a massive wildfire about 100 miles east of l.a. more than 2,000 acres have burned near big bear lake with hundreds of homes in its path. heat high winds and rough terrain are making it difficult for fire crews. so far the fire just 19% contained and officials are attempting to figure out what sparked it. one of several fires scorching

thousands of acres. sglchlts let's move to the race to the white house. an nbc news poll finds jeb bush gaining steam. senator marco rubio close behind followed by scott walker. the entire republican field is under scrutiny as conversations ramp up over whether the confederate flag should fly over government property like it does in south carolina. from their answers so far it's clear many of them would prefer to steer clear of the issue. mark murray is with me this morning. take us through these numbers. >> jeb bush is leading the republican field. it's important to note that this poll was conducted right before and right after his announcement last week so he is getting a little bit of a bump but our april poll also showed him leading the national republican field. what's different this time is that you end up having jeb bush leading among self-described conservatives where he was in third place back in april.

then you also look at our nbc "wall street journal" poll to find 75% of republicans say they could see themselves supporting him, and that kind of shows his upside in the field. >> that's changed, mark? >> yeah that has changed from 70% back in april. then 49% back in march, jose, so you can kind of see this poll has been very good news for jeb bush. >> what are voters most concerned about when it comes to the election itself, mark? >> this was fascinating. we asked what is your top concern heading into the upcoming 2016 presidential election. voters' top concern, 33% of them, said it's actually that wealthy candidates and corporations having too much influence over who wins. we end up hearing people saying voters don't care about campaign finance reform. this one finding does show that some voters do think that this is a problem. conversely, only 4% of the voters ended up thinking that die analysis tick candidates kind of like hillary clinton,

jeb bush even rand paul the same families running for the presidency, only 4% said that was a problem. >> that's kind of surprising. did it surprise you, only 4%? >> again it's the top concern. so it could be somebody's second or third concern. but jose so much has been made by these die analysis tick candidates. our poll at least this question shows, it's not as big of an issue as a lot of us are making it out to be perhaps. >> let's talk about this confederate flag. how much of a question is this and the answers the g.o.p. field has been giving, how messy have those been? >> it all started over the weekend when mitt romney seemed to give a lot of republicans cover where he said take the flag down in south carolina. right after that we saw jeb bush go about 95% of the way. he ended up tweeting something like in florida we ended up taking this down and i believe that south carolina will do the right thing. he wasn't as direct as mitt romney was but pretty much the sentiment was in the right

place. then you have marco rubio who said outsiders shouldn't decide this issue. it should be decided by south carolinaens. on meet the press you had mike huckabee who said this is something presidential candidates shouldn't have to address. it seems as if the weekend went on and republicans either didn't want to answer the question or actually basically said this isn't be something that i should have to answer at all. >> taking for granted that it is a state issue, there's no reason why a candidate for national office can't have an opinion on it. >> right. this has put these republicans in a very tough spot because on the one hand you see the sentiment coming from folks like mitt romney and some of these republicans are going to be on the ballot in south carolina either in january or february and some of them might not want to alien nate conservative primary voters in this state. it is interesting as the weekend went on we didn't see republicans as direct as mitt romney was. >> you talk about the conservative primary voters.

what's changed so that they start thinking of jeb bush as someone they could potentially support when it was really as you were showing us kind of the opposite just a few months ago? >> yeah jeb bush it's very interesting and again our poll is really good news for him, but he has basically decided he's going to run as a general elect candidate. he's not going to be pandering and really trying to court conservative primary voters. oftentimes you want to talk directly to the iowa and new hampshire republicans and be able to win those contests. but jeb said i almost want to run a general election campaign. that kind of message when it comes to the flag i think that's what someone would say in a general election. primary might be a different answer when you're trying to win over a lot of those voters. >> thank you it's good to see you. our political team will reveal more numbers from this latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll tonight on nbc nightly news with lester holt. let's head back to the supreme court as we await 11

possible decisions this morning from nine justices. one of those could have a major impact on the president's signature healthcare law. we're talking specifically about the 34 states with federal exchange where 6.4 million americans rely on federal subsidies to help pay for their healthcare. we spoke to a family in one of those states missouri about what a decision today could mean for them. >> my wig on. it's always fun because i feel like i'm a rock star. >> reporter: six months after la donna apple baum and her husband tom bought health insurance for the first time in four years, they found out la donna has breast cancer. >> i get a summary from my health insurance company every month. for the month of may i would have had to pay 16,046.50. because i have insurance i saved

15,$803.18. >> how much do you guys pay now? >> now we're paying about $185 a month. >> what are you getting for that? >> well, we're getting our money's worth to say the least. it saved us from bankruptcy is an understatement because there's no way that we could have afforded to pay any of these medical bills that keep coming in every month. >> reporter: like 7.7 million other americans, the applebaum's monthly premium is lower because they qualify for a subsidy under the affordable care act. but any day now, the supreme court may rule that the aid the applebaums got is illegal. they live in missouri one of 34 states that did not set up its own insurance marketplace. conservative activists argue that according to the letter of the law, specifically the words "established by the state" only plans bought on a state exchange qualify for the subsidy.

if the supreme court agrees 6.4 million people will lose the financial help they're getting. >> what role does the subsidy play in you guys being able to afford health insurance? >> it's a huge role. they cover over $600. >> reporter: they're democrats who supported the affordable care act, but they say they never expected how much it would affect their own lives. >> everyone has told me la donna, you look great, you're doing great, getting through this. i can't believe you've had surgery. i can't believe you're going through chemotherapy. i honestly believe that i was able to focus on my health and not our wealth. >> joining me now is supreme court expert tom goldstein. good morning. you watch these arguments for a

living. >> reporter: it seemed to us that it was going to be a nail-biter. the conservatives on the supreme court are concerned that the obama administration overreached by offering subsidies in those 34 states even though the health exchange was not formally established by the state. there was no real way of knowing how the case was going to come out. the swing vote justice kennedy, did express concern for ruling for the plaintiffs. but it looks like the administration is going to win but it's far from a sure thing. >> everybody is talking about the letter of the law versus what exactly is written. are they asking the supreme court to interpret law and not stick to what's written? >> reporter: the plaintiffs say that that phrase should be read literally and that is, well if your state did create the exchange, you can get the subsidies, but if the federal government created it instead, you can't. the obama administration says look, it's not so simple because there are a bunch of places in

the statute where state actually refers also to the federal government. they say when the law is vague like the affordable care act is, then what you need to do is defer, listen to what the executive branch here, the president, says. >> interesting. tom, thank you very much for being with me this morning. we're going to keep a close eye on any decisions out of the court. we're going to take you live to athens where greece is trying to hammer out a deal to solve it's five-month deadlock with credited terseers crediteders. a look at the boards as we head to break. the market is up 92 points. that's just this morning. we'll be right back.

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there was a cabin break-in in the mountain view and owl's head region of new york over the weekend. the owner of the camp tells authorities a single individual fled the scene as he opened the camp on saturday. the manhunt in that area as well as the forensic investigation is intensifying right now. we're going to keep you updated on "the rundown." another milestone for young golfer jordan spieth. the 21-year-old won the u.s. open taking his second straight major of the year. tiger woods not even making the cut. spieth could be the next big golfing star. just don't make a big deal about his age. >> every single thing that i'm able to do seems to -- somebody seems to find a history lesson on why i was the youngest to do something or as young as somebody way back when. for me i just -- this is my life. i've now been doing it for a while. i don't really think of my age.

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developing now, a critical 24 hours ahead for greece as european leaders gather for an emergency summit in brussels that could break a deadlock on a debt crises trying to avoid a nearly $2 billion debt replacement. michelle what's going on? >> reporter: the latest is that alexis seepers is in brussels to present this proposal. all of the finance ministers of the countries that use the euro have ended a meeting where they looked at this proposal and for the first time in a long time the tone is much more positive than it has been for months. when we have seen these meetings end before with previous proposals put forth by the greek

government, there was a lot of ran core and anger. now at least they're willing to keep talking so they're moving the ball forward let's say five yards. what's in the proposal we don't know yet. we know that last night there was a big protest by people who are very tired of the measures that have been imposed on greece in exchange for bailout money so they could keep paying their bills. there's a lot of not so much clarity on exactly what's going to happen in the future. we do know that the european union is concerned that greek government workers are able to retire too early. the average retirement age of a government worker in greece is 56 years old. that's the admission of this government that's in power right now. the european union wants them to make it harder to retire get rid of exceptions. the official retirement age is actually in the 60s but there are so many exemptions that a lot of people can retire early. when people retire earlier than

normal they cost more down the road because they live longer. that's one of the key issues they're going to be looking at. it's really crucial that a deal happens because the banks are living day to day, jose, and if they don't have some kind of deal, we could see some issues with the banks. >> thank you. after a quick break we're going to bring you the results of our bing pulse question today. do you find the president's use of the n word acceptable? and we'll take a closer look at the confederate flag controversy in south carolina as the calls grow louder for the state to take it down after the massacre in charleston.

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racism. we are not cured of it clearly. and it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say [ bleep ] in public that's not a measure of whether racism still exists or not. >> that was part of the president using a highly

controversial word during a podcast interview about racism in america. it has sparked quite a reaction on whether the word is acceptable to use. francis rivera has been taking your pulse this morning. francis? >> reporter: nice to see you. this is where we get the viewers involved here. we are asking do you find the president's use of the n word acceptable? the polls have been live since the top of the hour here. here is your voting so far on our scoreboard. 96% of you who have voted said yes, that is acceptable. only 4% said no the use of the n word is not acceptable there. you can continue to vote especially as you're continuing your discussion on your show in your next hour jose. if your viewers change their opinion, of course they can come back and vote at polls.msnbc.com. >> francis, very interesting. it's overwhelming numbers of

support of the use of that word by the president. thank you very much. one aspect of the race confrontation following the charleston shooting is around the confederate flag in that state. hundreds gathered under the controversial flag at the south carolina state legislature urging officials to take it down 150 years after the end of the civil war. joining me now is associate professor of history and african-american studies, kent germany. thank you for being with me. >> thank you very much. >> let's start with the main debate here. is keeping the flag flying a sign of hatred or heroism? >> that's the bumper sticker, that keeping the bumper sticker up is about heritage not hate. but the heritage is represents depends on who is being represented. historically in the post world war ii period it's represented to maintain white supremacy in the south, and in that case hert

taj -- the heritage is something that grows out of the hate. >> tell me about the history of the donconfederate flag. >> it's designed from the confederate flag. it's in the 1948 presidential election where it becomes hyper politicized, and it becomes the struggle from south carolina to preserve white supremacy in the south. in schools it becomes bigger. that's where it really comes into big, popular use. it becomes a symbol when the supreme court required desegregation of schools in the '50s and the civil rights movement, it becomes civil rights resisting an effort to end that 80-year period of jim crow. >> so it's interesting, because if that's what it was brought in for after having been

essentially removed from history, it's brought back in and it wasn't something that's been here for hundreds of years. we're talking about just some short period ago. >> well it's been around but the symbols take on different meengz meanings over time. when it becomes part of a national dialogue, then it comes -- and when you have violent white supremacists that are killing civil rights workers flying the flag then it takes on a different connotation. it's not necessarily the same for all southerners. >> thank you for being with me. appreciate t. >> thank you. the high court could weigh in on several key cases. we'll find out at the top of the hour. among the decisions still outstanding, obamacare and same-sex marriage. the two escaped murderers in upstate new york. there is intense focus on a cabin that was broken into. details on that story, and

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welcome back to the second hour of "the rundown" as we go from decision day, supreme court to decision hour. we're waiting to hear the fatal 11 cases from the nine justices that includes the affordable health care act. another big blockbuster case same-sex marriage across the nation. i'm going to bring both those decisions to you as soon as they come down but we have this justin. we're expecting to learn details very soon about the two convicts who escaped in upstate new york about two weeks ago. the media -- they will brief the media in about two hours. they are searching for david

sweat and richard matt. they are concentrating on mountain view. this is where the correctional facility is and just northwest is this mountain view or cabin at a camp was broken into. the camp owner told police a single individual ran off as he opened the camp on saturday. joining me now, someone who has done time behind bars and now warns youth about life in prison, larry lawton. he's also the author of "gangster redemption." larry, good to see you. >> good morning, jose. >> we're into the third week of these two convicts on the loose. what do you think their mindset might be right about now? >> their mindset, they're out this long already, jose so they've either got a lot of equipment or help or they've broken into places and got whatever equipment, not just food, items they would need to either break into a car or do something like that. we haven't heard of anybody interacting with them the public interacting with them. so either they have help and i

still believe they got help from the outside beforehand, before the whole thing started, jose. >> yeah let's talk about this cabin that apparently was broken into and that the gentleman who opened up the campground on saturday saw someone running away from it. take a look at the map earlier. it's very close to the jail wherejail, the correctional institute where they escaped from. also close to the canadian border. this sighting was on saturday we're now into monday. what do you think is going on up there? >> you know i think they either knew that cabin was there or someone else is helping them and they stayed low. i don't understand why the authorities didn't really do their search from the perimeter and go outward, like they pretty much targeted one area with a sighting and you would think they would have went like a circle and did a perimeter around that way. but that's the authorities. i'm sure they're trying every lead they can, but i still think, jose they have help. and to have help how did they know where cabins are?

how do they know whether cabins are occupied or not? they could be laying in wait and looking, and they will have patience, jose. i keep saying that. >> yeah you do. >> a big plus for these guys if you want to call it that is their patience. they have patience like none of us have. well, i do but a lot of people don't. >> talk to me about the benefits and hazards of continuing to run as a pair. >> you know they said there's one sighting of one person. so they might have split up already. if they're getting information from the outside, they definitely split up. if they're getting help i think the person or whatever is going to say -- and how they would do that is they'll say, look we got this far. i'm not telling you where i'm going, you don't tell me where you're going. this way if we get caught we're gone. it would really throw everything off from dogs and any other information. and if somebody gets caught on

the outside, i'm sure the investigators are really looking into any communications these guys had. remember, every communication in prison is monitored, every communication is recorded. so if they made a phone call from a phone in the prison or got a visit, which i think you would have to eventually have is a visit to communicate with somebody, they're going to know about it. and they're going to run all those down. but i still think there is somebody else involved in the prison. >> larry lawton thank you very much. your perspective always appreciated on the broadcast. now the latest on the shooting massacre in south carolina has become the catalyst for a new charged conversation about race. president obama being criticized for using the n word when discussing racism on a podcast with mark moran. >> racism. >> racism we are not cured of clearly. it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say [ bleep ] in

public. that's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. >> his remarks come as the world gets its first look at the manifesto attributed to gunman dylann roof, one that embraces white supremacy. thank you both for being with me. mark, let's start with you. what more are we learning about this guy roof? >> our sources telling us that the fbi is certain that website belongs to roof. it appears to tell us quite a bit about him. with all the pictures there of him burning the american flag flying the confederate flag using symbolism, using overheated language inflammatory language it's pretty clear that he has embraced the theories of white supremacy. he said he started getting interested in the idea of race and crime after trait vonhe trayvon martin case three years ago.

he condemns blacks but criticizes whites for not standing up for themselves, calls himself kind of a lone warrior against black crime. his website was known as the last rhodesian. it's clear he was a lone wolf that he appears to have self-radicalized by reading things on the internet. he's well versed in the language of white supremacy, but they don't consider him to be particularly sophisticated. it's clear he was showing himself to be brave, to be a hero but one points out that the target he ultimately chose was the softest of all possible targets. he attacked a house of worship, a church, a bible study group that he attended for a while, and the irony there of the horrific tragedy there are obvious. >> an emotional week in charleston. what's the feeling there in the community this morning? >> it's a bright early monday morning here which would have

been a very tumultuous and sad week for the people here. outside the church here the bouquet is still growing, the balloons are still growing. there are still people streaming here to pay their respects to what the preacher called the mother emanuel nine, the nine con congregants killed last week. there are thousands of signatures signed there. hundreds of people have left messages in memory of those who have passed. now, yesterday there was -- at that very solemn church service where the preacher said though that welcome together in faith and we will turn towards god and not away from him. after that there was a gathering on a nearby bridge. thousands of people black and white, locked arms holding hands. they were holding a peace sign and they were all coming together to show the city show the world they were all coming together. now, this coming week there will be vugz and funerals for those who have been killed including the reverend

clementapiclementap clementa pinckney. this place is still very solemn and they're still wrestling with so much sadness and so much grief. >> trymaine and mark potter do you find the president's use of the n-word acceptable? go to msnbc.com. we want to know what you think. now to afghanistan where this morning dozens have been injured after a series of explosions in kabul. take a look at that. that's when the bomb explodes right outside the parliament. militants were involved in the attack. nbc's keira simmons is following the story for us. keith keith, good morning, keira, good morning. what do we know?

>> what you saw there in the parliament you see those pictures that was a large car bomb a suicide bomber that had driven up outside the parliament there. you can see how close they got from that video, the smoke, people screaming. they had no idea what was happening before the taliban were coming in. now the taliban were not able to get in. we think they were seven insurgents trying to find their way in to the afghanistan parliament. all of them, a spokesperson says were killed after there was a firefight in another building, a neighboring building. you can see the people trying to evacuate. children in a local school had to be evacuated, too, as this pandemonium spread, if you like. it looks as if this was an attempt by the taliban to send a clear message to the world, because you can see that it's caught on live camera and they would have been expecting that because it is the parliament. in the end, 31 civilians were

wounded, including five women and three children. as i mentioned, the spokesperson says seven of the taliban attackers, the seven they say were involved they believe have been killed. >> pretty amazing how it was pretty calm during what is an explosion that rocks the building and all kinds of hell breaks loose. as far as the parliament building itself it has to be one of the most defended areas of the afghan capital. these taliban were really kind of brazen. >> yeah >> reporter: yeah, and that's one of the questions people will be asking shouldn't this be one of the most defended buildings in the capital? in fact, the lawmakers were voting on the installation of a new defense minister. so some irony there. the taliban, though have been able to carry out these kinds of attacks rell tilatively frequently. they are on the offensive in northern afghanistan. at the same time jose there are different taliban.

there are al qaeda-affiliated taliban, there are now isis-affiliated taliban, as well as taliban who are involved in negotiations. so that's fueling the violence again as different parts of this insurgent group attempt to make their voices heard more clearly over the others. >> keir simmons in london. thank you. it's good to see you, my friend. lots ahead on a busy monday morning where action could come out of the supreme court. groundbreaking decisions on same-sex marriage and the affordable health care act. we'll bring you details as soon as we get them. also continuing to follow developments in upstate new york. the trail is getting hotter for the search of two escaped convicts. are we narrowing the manhunt? i'll have details for you on "the rundown." boys? ♪ mamas, don't let your babies...♪

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. 45 million people are bracing for storms that could turn dangerous today. the area stretching from minneapolis to detroit, including chicago, facing damaging winds, large hail and potentially tornadoes. the greatest threat of tornadoes expected in southern wisconsin later this afternoon. heavy rains will also bring threats of flash flooding. msnbc's bill karas is monitoring the storm threats. good morning. >> good morning, jose. we just got notice of wind gusts of 92 miles per hour in independence, iowa. it's not even a tornado, just straight line winds. that's like a strong end category 1 hurricane type gusty wind. that's why there's reports of tree damage in independence iowa and one neighbor said the neighbor's roof is in his front yard. we'll show you those pictures when we get them in but it

sounds like strong storms coming through the waterloo area and the quad cities. let me zoom in on this a little to show you who is next. it's going to move into southern wisconsin and northern portions of illinois. did you duh dubuque is getting a horrible storm now, so stay inside and let this roll through. cedar rapids in a little bit, clinton and eventually to rockford. we'll get another round later on today, so we get two rounds one this morning and then a second one. a lot of question marks with the second one if we'll get many tornadoes or not. if we do the likelihood of tornadoes is greatest in the southern area of wisconsin. that's where we could see the stronger storms and then late tonight those storms will push

through areas of michigan. the worst of it there is in southern wisconsin. then we'll follow these storms all the way to the east coast. it has been so hot lately up and down the eastern seaboard. we couldn't even we could hit near 100 degrees in d.c. tomorrow. we won't see tornadoes but we will see a lot of wind damage. you know how florida has been so far this spring all the way to the southeast. heat index will be 107 from augusta to charleston. across georgia is the highest i've seen. it's going to feel like 111 this afternoon. it is summer. it started yesterday, you expect this stuff, but you expect some relief every now and then. not much for the southeast. it looks hot for you guys for a while. >> it's so red all over the country. >> it's going to feel like 10 0102 in st. louis today. >> what about miami?

>> you'll have that ocean that will give you a nice breeze this afternoon. i'm sure you saw over the weekend, too, fires have started burning. we actually had a very slow wildfire season up to this point. that kind of changed this weekend. we had a bunch of blazes this weekend that crews were out trying to get control of. >> we'll have more on that later on in the program. hundreds of firefighters are on the front lines trying to get control of these massive wildfires that bill was telling us about out west. also pop star taylor swift is taking on the biggest company in the world, and so far she's winning. we're going to explain. but first it's a huge night for sports. the u.s. women's soccer team moves into the knockout stage of the world cup, playing their first game against columbia tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. what a game it will be. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one.

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some breaking news now on the search for those two escaped convicts in upstate new york. nbc news can report from multiple sources that the search is in owls head new york. that's where a cabin was found broken into. in addition multiple sources tell nbc news that dna was found in the cabin on saturday. it is not yet clear if the dna belonged to either of these two escaped killers. more on this story as it becomes available, and there is a news conference scheduled for noon eastern time and we of course will be bringing that to you. let's get a check now on wall street where stocks are taking off in the hopes that greece could find some agreement with the rest of the creditors and avoid a default and potential financial meltdown. well cnbc's mandy dreary is here with that and a whole lot

more. >> good morning, jose. we've got the nasdaq and also the 2000 and the dow up from their normal highs. what the deal is we're hoping in some kind of breakthrough with greece and their creditors. they're in rally mode even more than here but don't count your chickens before they're hatched, jose. we really learned this in this saga with greece because they are still scheduled to meet at 1:00 p.m. eastern time to try to hash out the details of that deal with greece. don't hold your breath. >> like all the banks in greece people are just coming out and getting any kind of cash they can. >> absolutely absolutely. because -- well obviously, if there's the fear that the banks will have to shutter their doors, and you want to get your money out, what would you do? you would go straight to the bank and you would get your money out. >> talk to me about your and my

favorite, taylor swift. what's going on with that? >> okay. so she's basically taken on apple. she refused last week to allow apple to stream her album "1989" because she was unhappy with the three-month free trial that was offered to subscribers. so after taylor swift complained apple decided to change their royalty policy see what a difference taylor swift can make and they will pay royalties during that free trial period for their new apple service. wouldn't it be nice to be taylor swift and have that kind of power? >> yeah. i have her album, too. >> you do? >> i have a daughter too. politics are heating up on the right with new numbers showing a shift in the gop race. we'll show you who is leading the pack right now. but first, check this out. it may have been father's day but this mom was a standout in yesterday's oakland a's game. a ball fell right into her hands one-handed by mom.

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...according to kelley blue book ...and mitch. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. and developing right now, the supreme court where the nine justices issue their decisions for today. four of them leaving a total of seven and two potential blockbuster decisions for another day. let's head to the supreme court to check in with msnbc's correspondent ari odzer. ari, what happened? >> reporter: a lot of people gathered, a lot of media lining up to the court here. no big decisions to those cases. people have been following obamacare and marriage equality. not anything considered national news a privacy case a detention case. that means with one scheduled day left the court will either

do the big rulings, the two i mentioned, the full seven next monday or potentially add another day or two. they are the court, which means if they haven't finished their homework on time jose they give themselves an extension. >> ari, i'm being told that there is a decision on the 25th of june. >> if they've just confirmed that, i'm out in front of the court, if they have confirmed that, then that would be later this week they would add a day. we see that at the end of the term sometimes, the court will add a day and space out some of those decisions. the other thing we can interpret, jose the quote, unquote, easy decisions, the unanimous decisions, the simple ones those come out typically earlier in the term. so what we can also see is that for whatever reason we may infer that these simple decisions we're waiting on are not simple are not easy. that's why we know for example, the last obama case came down at the end of the term and was a tie with chief justice williams

coming away from the justice. >> interesting they're actually bringing it a day earlier, right? if it was the 25th it would be this same week. >> right, and that's what they've done in the past. that gives them another day to reach their decisions, leave them a self-imposed day. they are people in robes, they may have other plans. some thought marriage equality might have come out earlier, might have been a point of en enmity where they can show their decisions. ultimately, even though we study the law here we're like everyone else standing in front of the court to see what they are going to tell us. >> i'll see you in front of that court again this same week ari.

thank you, good to see you. >> thank you. >> as we just said the next decision for the supreme court day will be this thursday the 25th of june. this morning questions surrounding the confederate flag swirling. many candidates are saying south carolina should decide the fate of the flag and not saying whether the state should take it down or not. according to our new nbc news poll they should take it down. marco rubio, scott walker not far behind jeb bush in the ratings. nick, the debate about this whole confederate flag controversy, we're going to get to what the candidates are saying in a minute but at the forefront is the question whether the flag should fly. a fair question for someone who wants to be president or not. >> absolutely, jose. it's a values question.

what you see right now is a bunch of candidates who are afraid to say what they really think, who are all thinking about the south carolina primary, thinking about primary voters. it's kind of hard to get a straight answer out of some candidates on what they personally truly believe. it's a big question. it's a big moment. >> do you think, lauren that it is all about politics that these candidates are having such a tough time answering one way or another? >> i think, you know for somebody like jeb bush who, when he was governor took down the confederate flag in florida, i think that probably says where he stands on this issue, but he also has to be looking at the primary, and you have to be careful in balancing this issue of trying to speak your mind while also not isolating those white conservatives who might show up in a primary and might make the difference between you winning that state or not. i think that's what this is really about here. this is about politics. i don't think it's clear, you know whether or not these candidates really are trying to mull the decision.

i think a lot of them know exactly where they stand, they're just not saying it yet. >> and one of the reasons we're talking about this is because of mitt romney. why do you think he chose to weigh in on this issue? >> two reasons. i think he's kind of a party elder at this point, at least, he wants to be one, so he's weighing in to shape the party, shape news. but also he's already taken this position in a previous campaign for president, so it was kind of a low-risk move. on the other hand, i think he is trying to get out there and say, look this is the right thing. i'm going to be straightforward and blunt about it and other candidates, people who are behind the president this time should fall behind me. >> our polls show jeb bush running first with republican voters. do you think this is a bump or do you think this is going to stay like this? >> i think jeb bush had high name recognition to begin with. when you say you're going to be running for president, that helps your name i.d. as well as gets voters thinking about you

as a potential candidate. it's too early, obviously, to tell who is really leading this race but he has high name i.d. he's out in the states and now that he's an official candidate, voters are naturally considering him, and i think that's what the poll shows. >> nick durks find, do you find that as well? do you think this will hold? is this a solid support for the former florida governor? >> i think you'll have the mainstream field and the more conservative field. i think we'll see these kind of numbers move around. this is a guy with high name i.d. he's a bush. he's the former governor of a big state. he's going to have higher poll numbers and he had a great launch. he had a great first couple of days. i think he was more relaxed and more confident in that big speech than i've seen him before. so yeah he's going to move up and there will be a lot of moving around in these poll positions for the next few months, jose. >> we're still 500 days away. that's a long time.

who is counting right? nick and lauren thank you for being with me. >> thank you. firefighters are working furiously to battle massive wildfires threatening hundreds of homes. a drought-driven fire near the pier. big bear lake is about 100 miles east of l.a. high winds are making the fires even more challenging. chief joe fryer is in big bear. joe? >> reporter: temperatures are expecting to drop a little bit, which should help. this forest fire has already consumed more than 17,000 acres, and this morning is just 19% contained. firefighters are bracing for another long day battling a stubborn fire on a steep mountain. >> if you look at the hill behind me it's extremely steep. there's trees coming down rocks coming down. >> reporter: about 2,000

firefighters have been called in. they're attacking flames that are feeding on old growth trees perched high atop peaks in the san bernardino national forest. some spots are so rugged they can't even be reached on the ground. >> so we're helicoptering crews in and they're spending that on the fire line so they can get up in the morning and fight the fire once again. >> across the u.s. the land is dry and the weather is hot and windy. dozens of fires have been knocked out quickly, but some won't go down without a fight. >> it's just like a monster. it goes where it wants to go and nobody can stop it. >> reporter: it spared his house in central california but not his mother's mobile home. >> the fire was so heat intense and so fast i didn't think anything could survive. >> reporter: across drought-stricken california this is just round one of a long fire fight. >> if this continues, firefighters are bracing for a very tough and difficult fire

season. >> reporter: this so-called lake fire has already threatened about 500 structures including a number of cabins. but so far all of the buildings have been spared. the cause of this fire remains under investigation. jose? >> joe fryer, thank you very much. a wave of violence and major levy breach and a cave rescue. let's zoom through some of today's top stories. a violent weekend in several states. in new jersey a father's day shooting wounded three people on sunday night. dozens were at the outside party in jersey city when shots broke out. none of the injuries were life threatening. a similar scene in philadelphia where ten people were injured. one person died in a drive-by shooting. a one-year-old girl among three children recovering from a gunshot wound. police still looking for suspects there. in detroit, another party turned tragic. 11 people were wound bid gunfireed by gunfire, the gunman killed. police look for answers.

take a look at these images out of oklahoma. massive flooding caused a levy to burst open on sunday. roads, bridges and highways completely washed out by the overflowing wacita river. engineers are working around the clock to minimize the impact. in northern spain, rescues freed an explorer who fell inside a cave. he was trapped 25 feet down. the 44-year-old climber was with friends when he fell. they were unable to reach him so they called emergency services. it took a team of 40 rescuers to get the climber out of the narrow tunnels of the cave. and developing now, a tragic ending for a massive search of a former white house chef. the body of 41-year-old walter shee was found on monday. he reportedly went on a hike by

himself. he was found more than a mile from where he pashlgd his car. he served as executive chef under president clinton and george w. bush. he was initially hired by first lady hillary clinton. up next another nightmare flight stranding hundreds of travelers left to sleep on the floor of an airport in ireland. we'll have those details for you. and in colorado some of the most heart-wrenching testimony we've heard yet in the movie theater shooting trial just before the prosecution rests. look what's ahead in that case. >> i heard the movie still playing and people crying and screaming and -- yeah. you know what he can do? let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! book your next stay at lq.com!

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chicago after a really rough weekend, camping out at an airport terminal. flight 971 diverted to northern ireland saturday because of a destructive passenger on board. the flight couldn't continue on to chicago until the next day because of the faa work hour limits, and passengers left to sleep on the airport floor. nbc's kevin tibbles has the details and the reaction. >> i think united handled it very poorly. >> reporter: it was a weary and angry group of travelers finally arriving at o'hare international airport overnight after their united airlines from rome to chicago was diverted to belfast in northern ireland and stuck there for nearly 23 hours. ua flight 971 was forced to make an unscheduled landing following reports of an unruly passenger on board. >> he was cussing, swearing -- >> he was doing this. >> -- he was getting in the passenger's face behind him. just getting into her personal space. >> once in belfast, the

42-year-old man was taken into custody, his arrest captured on cell phone video. by this time the flight crew had gone over its hours, stranding 282 passengers, first on the tarmac and then in the airport terminal overnight. >> united airlines should have a reserve crew available, and they should know this crew is getting ready to time out. >> reporter: while blankets food and water were provided, many found themselves spending the entire night on the floor of the terminal building and without their luggage. in a statement united airlines said we understand the inconvenience this causes our customers and will refund their rome to chicago flight. it's the second time in as many weeks united passengers have spent an uncomfortable night. mechanical problems forced a chicago to london flight to land in remote goose bay on canada's east coast. they were housed in a local military barracks while the flight crew stayed at a local hotel. at that time united said we

apologize to our customers for the disruption to their travel plans and will be refunding their tickets to london. a routine international flight lands more than 30 hours later. but one passenger was missing, the one now charged and still being held in belfast for disruptive behavior on an airplane and common assault. >> that was nbc's kevin tibbles reporting. breaking news now on the search for those two escaped convicts in upstate new york. nbc news can report that the search for escaped prisoners richard matt and david sweat is now focused on owls head new york, just about 20 miles from the clinton correctional. but the terrain between the two is described as rugged and mountainous. nbc news has learned that dna has been found in the cabin in owls head but can't confirm it belonged to either of the two escaped killers. we should mention a search in allegheny county in southwest new york state has been wrapped up and we're hoping to learn a

whole lot more about the search. a news conference is scheduled for noon eastern time today, and we will, of course be following that for you. a defense in the colorado shooting trial set to begin its case later this week after a week of the most heart-wrenching testimony so far. prosecutors wrapped up their case friday by calling shooting survivor ashley moser as their final witness. moser paralyzed and suffered a miscarriage in the july 2012 shooting. her six-year-old daughter veronica was also killed. >> i went to stand up to reach for her hand to try to exit. >> when you say her hand you mean veronica? >> veronica's hand yeah. >> did her hand reach back? >> no i couldn't feel it. it slipped through my hand. as i stood up, i just remember getting a hit in my chest. and i remember falling and

landing on top of her. >> james holmes has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity that left 12 dead and seven injured. why did the prosecution decide to rest its case with this testimony? >> you start strong and you finish strong. this is how it works, jose. you want to leave the jury with the most powerful lasting memory of that night in 2012. >> now, the dwentsefense is set to begin its case on thursday. what are we expecting there? >> what we're expecting is a lot of experts. you had those independent experts that gave evaluations, but then you have defense experts that are going to say that holmes was, in fact insane at the time of the crime. we're expecting a lot of those. perhaps there will also be some type of character evidence from witnesses that will corroborate and almost humanize holmes that he's not this terrible evil

person but, in fact jose that he is sick and that he is ill and that he did not know right from wrong at the time of the crime. >> how do you kind of override and i don't think it's possible the kind of testimony we've been hearing? just this testimony we heard just breaks your heart. it looefrzeaves a permanent mark on your soul if you hear it. >> jose of course i agree with you, but you have to separate the law from the emotion. and when these jurors were interviewed at the beginning of this case they gave the judge their assurance that they could do that that they could remove sympathy from their decision-making process. that's what they have to do. they have to look at the law and the facts and the evidence and see if it connects. and if there's evidence that holmes was insane at the time of the crime, then it doesn't matter how emotional and how heart-wrenching the events were right? >> yeah you're right. before i let you go i want to ask you about the charleston

church shooter, dylann roof. what's next for him legally? >> now he's being held right? at this point there will be preliminary hearings to decide how far this case goes. he's going to be indicted. there is nine counts of murder. and so while the state case is pending pending, the federal investigation continues, but jose at least all sources are saying the state takes precedent, we know south carolina has a death penalty, they have been very up front in that they will seek the death penalty in this case but the federal case will go along parallel. >> and in the federal case it could have the death penalty even though it's more probable if you go to the state. >> exactly. it's a stronger case i think, for the state. >> let me ask you about this whole manifesto that nbc is not able to confirm that it was written by dylann roof but it's pretty long-winded. could this be used as evidence

if it's confirmed to be written by him? >> jose you always ask the best questions, you really do. this is great. this manifesto is a writing that was created by him. some of it will be allowed if it is shown to be relevant to the incident and there is a connection. because we also have to lay out the timeline. when was that written? if something was written so far in advance of an incident then there's no connection and it won't be allowed into evidence. there is also the probability that some of it will be allowed in and not all of it will be allowed in. >> let me ask you very quickly, what is it -- how could he plea? could he plea? could he try to change the outcome? could he say guilty? could it be insanity? what are the possibilities? >> one possibility is that he takes a plea if they remove death penalty off the table. that's always a possibility and maybe he gets life without parole.

the other possibility is that if the prosecution and defense agree that he was insane at the time of the crime, which i doubt is going to happen then he would enter a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity and enter a hospital for an indefinite period of time. >> always with the best answers. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. be sure to catch her show "the docket" at 11:00 a.m. eastern every tuesday. up next the latest member of the 21 club jordan spieth. he's one of the few golfers to reach milestones like these all before their 21st birthday. more on the 21 club

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but on sunday that age took on a whole different meaning, bringing us to 5 things 21 club. i guess you could find him the latest member of the 21 club 21-year-old jordan spieth taking home the u.s. open trophy in the united states. he's the youngest u.s. open winner in 92 years. tiger woods, watch out. number two, from the greens in hollywood to marley matlin. she was only 21 when she took home her award for "children of a lesser god." number three, steve jobs. college dropout was only 21 not 22 -- sorry, taylor swift -- when he co-founded apple computers with steve wozniak. it all started in the family garage. number four a recorder that

could help legislators count the yays and the nays. number five i wonder if he knew he would be in this club with justin bieber. the biebs turning the ripe old age of 21 this year. we have the same initials but we definitely have different hair. the guy on the left real hair. the guy in the center of your screen, big, poofy hair. the guy on the right of your screen, fake hair. but that's how we roll here. that wraps up "the rundown" on msnbc. thank you for the privilege of your time. "news nation" with tamron hall is next. i'll see you here tomorrow. it's time for the "your business" entrepreneur of the week. conservationist ramsey

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killers who escaped from a massive security prison more than two weeks ago. the focus is on a cabin less than 30 miles from the prison with multiple sources telling nbc news dna was found at the cabin on saturday. we are now waiting for an official update from new york state police set for noon eastern time. john yang has the latest. >> reporter: in the thick forest forest, the most intense day yet in the 17-day search for david sweat and richard matt. the new search was sparked just 30 miles from the prison after a break-in was reported at a remote cabin, the owner saying an individual was inside the cabin and fled the scene once he arrived. the search for escaped prisoners david sweat and richard matt now focused on