tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 29, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
nvolved with medicare. i think that's what the supreme court just said about obamacare. leave it alone. and that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the supreme court rewrote the constitution, and threw out the marriage laws of all 50 states. >> the supreme court backlash hits the campaign trail. as the movement to block marriage equality spreads across the south. plus breaking news on south carolina's push to take down the confederate flag. the inside story of the woman who took matters into her own hands. >> ma'am. >> and the pro-confederate flag rally in georgia that hendended up in a multicar pile-up. >> they're about to wreck. >> and this nbc ends its relationship with donald trump -- >> my view on immigration is much different than the people at nbc. >> why the republican party's troubles may just be starting.
>> now, with my statements on immigration, which happen to be correct, they are going to take a different stance and that's okay. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. officials in at least three southern states have taken steps to defy the u.s. supreme court's landmark ruling friday striking down same-sex marriage bans across the country, as social conservatives warn the high court has put america on a path to hell. in alabama, roy moore, best known for his refusal to remove a ten commandments monument from the supreme court building said under a new supreme court order, alabama judges are not required to issue same-sex marriage licenses for 25 days while parties contest the supreme court ruling. the alabama supreme court order was confusing for some probate judges who could still face sanctions if they refuse to issue licenses to same-sex couples. speaking in a church yesterday,
moore said he could not accept friday's ruling as correct. >> is there such a thing as morality anymore? for centuries, it was declared to be against the laws of nature. >> in texas, republican attorney general ken paxton deemed the ruling lawless and said state workers can cite their religious objections in denying marriage licenses to same-sex couples and in kentucky some county clerks are refusing to issue marriage licenses to any couple to protest the ruling. encouraging news today after a three-day hold out, louisiana and mississippi officials began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples including this couple who have been toornd for nearly 14 years. opponents have gotten more vitriolic. tim brooks warning that gays are warning that christians come out and have sex with us why brian fisher said the high court had
put our souls in jeopardy. >> on friday the supreme court made it easier for people to go to hell. >> joining me now, alabama state representative patricia taud alabama's first and only elected gay official. your reaction to what roy moore appears to be attempting to do in your state in terms of holding back this decision? >> well he's on the wrong side of history again. and it is very frustrating for those of us who, you know are law abiding citizens to watch the chief justice of our supreme court deny a federal supreme court decision that was very clear. put but you know, i think he wants to be a pastor. i think he needs to leave his current position as a justice and start pastoring a church. >> there was some talk in the runp to this decision whether we would see something like what
we saw particularly in the south in the wake of brown v. board, which was called massive resistance. outright thumbing of the nose at the supreme court saying you're going to have come in and enforce it and we all remember the images of national guard deployed. we're not really seeing that. what is the temperature like in alabama? >> i think a lot of people are confused. probate judges many of them have been issuing licenses and they will continue to do so since friday without any hesitation, without any problem, but we have some who are looking for an excuse. and my response to them is if you can't do your job, we'll get somebody who can. and in your next election this is going to be an issue. there's a lot of young people who support this decision the majority of the people in this country do, and it's time to get over it. let's move on to solving the critical issues in alabama that can help move the state forward. >> do you think that's the direction that the voters of
alabama are going, getting over it or do you think this is going to play out, continue to play out as a live political issue in the elections to come? >> well i think it will be a live political issue, but our polling shows it's always increasing, never decreasing. it's always increasing. as this decision had been on friday more people came out to their familyiesfamilies, have decided to get married. unlike other social movements, we're everywhere. we work with you, we're in your family. we teach your children we're your coworkers. so i think that that will help us increase the numbers, but it's a matter of time. the people over 40 you know are another generation that you know, don't get this. and as a younger generation take power, i think this will become a nonissue. i think it will become a nonissue in the next couple years. we'll look back and go really? what was the big deal?
>> i got to ask, as an openly gay woman in alabama, as the only openly gay member of the state legislature, what does this decision, what does friday mean to you? >> it was emotionally overwhelming. i mean i felt very confident the supreme court was going to rule in our favor, very strongly, and they did. but it was bittersweet. you know, i have been fighting for this for 20 years. i never thought i would see it in my lifetime. watching alabama struggle with this is painful for me. hearing the name calling, we had an incident in alabama this weekend where a guy with an hrc sticker on his car was chased by another guy in a car and they pointed a gun at him. we're always concerned about potential violence and hate speech when this happens, but we've got to stay strong. we're moving forward, and the country's moving forward, and these people are going to be left behind. the probate judges are losing money for their county. because if they're not going to
issue any marriage licenses. somebody is going to go to the next county to get it. they're going to lose revenue. don't come to me and say i need more money for my court system i had to lay off a bailiff, when you won't provide a basic service that's your job. >> patricia todd who sounds fairly confident this is going to be resolved in the right way down in alabama. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> behind the scenes many republican strategists have been quietly celebrating friday's ruling as a chance for the gop to leave the increasingly damaging issue of gay rights behind. but in public many of the gop presidential candidates with their eye on socially conservative primary voters have been trying to one up each other. ted cruzs suggested same-sex marriage and obamacare rulings made for a 24-hour period that was, quote, among the darkest hours of our nation. cruz called on states to ignore the supreme court's ruling
while scott walker railed against what he called a redefinition of marriage and demanded a constitutional amendment to allow states to define marriage themselves. rick santorum said the president should redirect his global warming push to focus on marriage instead and raised the subject of state sanctioned polygamy. perhaps no candidate went further than mike huckabee who said he would not acquiesce to an imperial court, and he challenged to defy the court by pointing to dr. martin luther king jr. >> are you calling for civil disobedience? >> i don't think a lot of pastors and christian schools are going to have a choice? they're going to either follow god, their conscience, and what they truly believe is what the skrichture teaches them or they will follow civil law. they will go the path of dr. martin luther king who in his brilliant essay, the letters from a birmingham jail reminded
us based on what st. augustine said, that an unjust law is no law at all. >> just one letter. not letters. then donald trump whose advocacy for so-called traditional marriage was the subject of a pretty amazing exchange. >> what do you say to a lesbian who is married or a gay man who is married who says donald trump, what's traditional about being married three times? >> they have a good point. i have been a very hard working person. i have had actually have a great marriage, a great wife now, and my two wives were very good. and i don't blame them but i was working maybe like you, 22 hours a day. >> i'm not asking you to explain your divorces. >> i know but i blame myself because my business was so powerful for me. i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. >> what do you say to a lesbian or a gay man who are married -- >> i really don't say anything.
i'm just -- jake i'm for traditional marriage. >> joining me now, matt welch, editor and chief of reason magazine. i think the first 72 hours after this have been pretty interesting. do you subscribe to this notion that sort of behind closed doors, the gop strategic class is basically a sigh of relief whereas gop primary voters and politicians themselves are genuinely upset? >> yes, and the people who work for gop campaigns who by and large are the people who live in washington, d.c. which is a super duper gay town by the way, they tend to be more libertarian, more open about this stuff. however, i think, i mean the big question i think the broad one is is this going to be another roe v. wade backlash kind of thing? i don't think it's going to be. but it's clear, just because a majority of republicans under 50 are in favor of gay marriage. it's over. that's not going to go in their direction. but ted cruz is going to make a big stink out of it as are all the people vying for the social
conservative folk. >> what's key to understand is that time matters. i'm one of those people that always thought given enough time, the affordable care act will be popular, difficult to repeal, but i may be right, may be wrong, but there's a dig difference between whether it's popular 18 months after it passed or six years. and that matters for the elections that happen in between. that strikes me as the issue here. you can say, hur, projecting out 16 years from now, this will not be a big issue, but there's an election soon, and there is political hay to be made among the gop base who genuinely have these believes. it's not made up. they believe this. >> in the primary election there's hay to be made. this is a context of republicans in a very favorable climate. even when they're winning elections or retaking congress. they're still losing market share. they're still, people don't want to register, they don't want to identify, and if you talk to young people milineals who are probably not necessarily fiscally super lefties. not a butch of elizabeth
warnings, but they will consider being a republican because of republican traditional views towards especially gay marriage and also immigration. if you're perceived to be intolerant, forget it. >> it's a threshold issue, the same thing we saw on immigration 2012, right? before you get a hearing, right, you have to show yourself to not be a jerk essentially, bubt some key issues. >> so what ted cruz is doing is i don't care about that right now. >> that's right. that's exactly right. >> i want to win this primary right now. he's going to force the issue because that's what ted cruz does. he wakes up in the china shop and he wants to be the bull. he is going to try to force the issue against the jeb bushes and marco rubios who are saying, okay, i personally don't really believe in this type of marriage, but the supreme court has ruled. let's kind of move on, which is the note they're striking. it is interesting that scott walker is going in the ted cruz direction. >> very and that strikes me as significant, because -- >> some kind of bellwether there, and it's just disappointing on a real kind of
human level that none of the candidates, not even rand paul has been able just to say, hey, look even if i disagree with this ruling, a lot of people in america had a really good day. you know i congratulations, it's kind of a beautiful thing to have a ceiling lifting on your imagination here even if we respectfully disagree that no one could sound that note and no one could say i don't think that the government should discriminate against, if it's in this business it should discriminate against a class of people, a libertarian congressman said that but few republicans. they put themselves for 15 years in this bind and they're suffering from it. >> yeah and the dynamic, the cultural disconnect between say your median iowa primary, iowa caucus voter and your median gop strategist who lives in nourj virginia is really fascinating to me on this issue. because they're in pretty different worlds particularly on this issue. i don't think on other ones. there's a sense in which if you're a social conservative, you can feel a little like
you're being had. >> a little? >> like there is a sense of like, are these folks really leapting our interests, really fighting for us? is this saying we're the rubes who show up and deliver the votes? >> i'm see aglot of reaction that we're the rubes, we have been played for all this time. that's what ted cruz is trying to play into. no one is really going to fight for you, i am going to fight for you, but the social conservatives i know and the self-selecting elite conservatives, but they're more licking their wounds. it's not like i'm going to get my new campaign. this is going to define my life. there are ownnly a few people who are dead enders on that level. most people are licking their wounds, thinking about religious freedom issues sissues. >> the gop is lucky in that respect. matt, thank you. still ahead, donald trump loses his "apprentice" position. justice scalia cooks up his own applesauce, and a pro-comfort flag rally ends with a bang. >> they're about to wreck.
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there was a parade to celebrate the confederate flag in dalton georgia, this weekend, and here is what happened. >> look at this [ bleep ]! what the [ bleep ] is this? and they got the roads blocked off. look. you all don't think i'm [ bleep ], there go the police right there. got the road blocked off for these [ bleep ] confederate flags. i don't know what the [ bleep ] is going on. oh, they're about to wreck. boom! boom! oh, i got that! oh, i got all that! i just said they're going to wreck. i just said they're gonna wreck. i just said that.
damn! damn! god don't like ugly. god do not like ugly. >> that scene minus the wreck, played out in other cities across the south this weekend, including in south carolina, which is also where this happened. an activist scaled a flag pole and removed the confederate flag that flies on the grounds of south carolina's state house. one of the people who helped her joins me next. ♪ ♪ (vo) making the most out of every mile. that's why i got a subaru impreza.
just hours after dawn on saturday hours after the reverend clementa pinckney was laid to rest in charleston two people armed with climbing gear arrived at the base of the comfort flag that flies on the grounds of the south carolina state grounds. after the murders of reverend pink pink pinckney and eight others were killed, people called for the flag to be removed, but the battle flg was still there, so 30-year-old bree newsome and her collaborate took matters into their or hands. as dawn broke over the capital, newsome scaled the flag pole with what appears to be tree climbing gear. she unhooked the emblem and brought it back with her. police were waiting at the bottom bottom, and newsome seems
prepared for the consequences. >> the lord is my light and my salvation. she shall i hear. the lord is the stronghold in my life. i'm going to comply. you can put me down. i'm prepared to be arrested. >> newsome and tyson were both arrested and charged with defacing a public monument which carries a fine up to $5,000 and up to three years behind bars. both were releases. less than three hours after the flag came down, a worker put it back in place. people showed up to stage a counter protest to support the flag. confederate flag supporters near tampa, florida held a so-called drive for pride friday night, ending up at hillsborough county courthouse and in dalton, police shut down the streets for the parade of trucks. they didn't manage to figure out the whole traffic situation.
>> oh, they're about to wreck. boom! boom! oh, i got that. i got all that. i just said it they're gonna wreck. >> can you tell we like playing the video? joining me a member of the activist group that helps organize bree newsome's actions. let me begin with you. what was it like there early that morning, doing that action? were you guys scared? >> it was a mix of emotions. it was, we hope this goes through. like sending all power and love to bree while she scaphalled the pole. hoping the state police didn't shoot her down or something catastrophic happen. it was almost beautiful, brought me too tears seeing the flag come down. as activists, people who believe in humanity it's a beautiful feeling of liberation and empowerment. >> what do you say to meme who say i support you, that flag should come down but there's a
process for it and they're debating it and they're going to have their vote. don't take the law into your own hands. >> two things. one, we can't continue to wait for our judicial system as minority people and oppressed people in this country to do what's right for the minority people when they have shown us in the past in our recent past that they don't really have our best interests at hand. sengdly, we the people have the power to make our own decisions. we are the ones who should be governing this country. the legislators and people in those houses should reflect what we want and not the other way around. >> let me ask a member of that legislature, mr. rutherford i understand there's news, the a.p. alerted it looks like on this contentious matter of taking the flag down it appears the votes are there in the house and the senate to take it down. is that what you're hearing as well? >> that's what i'm hearing. the charleston newspaper has been doing a poll and polling the senate and house, and it looks like in both bodies we
have the two thirds necessary to vote to take it down. in the senate it may go without going to a committee or subcommittee and go straight to the floor, so the house could get this as early as july 6th. >> are you surprised by that? was this what you were anticipating when the governor made the announcement that she made? >> yeah it's surprising how quickly this all happened. as i believe you have commented before, it seems to be happening with light speed. i'm not surprised there's a vote, the vote is necessarily to take it down. i am surprised we reached two thirds and republican members are willing to speak out and say well in advance of the vote where they stand, that rare rr willing to take a newspaper and comment in the newspaper that it's time for the flag to come down. but as a commentator in the dalton georgia segment said god don't like ugly and this flag needs to come down. i'm here to make sure that it does. >> representative, as the attorney for bree newsome, do you think that you will be facing stiff penalty? do you anticipate a judicial system that seeks to make an
example of her? >> i know that right now, she's charged with defacing a public monument, which carries three years and a $5,000 fine but you know the most disturbing thing that happened was right after the flag came down two african-american workers for the budget and control board for the state of south carolina then had to put the confederate flag back up. talk about a hostile work environment. the african-american cops that were forced to arrest her when she was in possession of the confederate flag. talk about a haase ilwork environment. the state of south carolina has no business flying the flag of hate. today, right now at this hour as i sit hire a block down the street, what you have is the front of the south carolina state house blocked off by police officers because of a skirmish that happened not more than 30 minutes ago. the state of south carolina has no business in hate they have no business flying that flag. it needs to come down. and by the way, the kkk has said they're going to organize a rally at the state house. they have been issued a permit but again, i'm here to make sure that that rally is going to happen with the absence of the
confederate flag. >> the kkk announcing they're going to have a rally for there flag july 18th i believe it is on the capital grounds, in some ways that seems fitting giving the debate we're having about the flag. your reaction to that. >> i mean it's not shocking. what's happening here is more than a flag. so when we organize and thought about taking down the flag it wasn't just about removing that flag from that premise because there's hundreds around there's hundreds around that our government houses. it's about showing people and giving people the power, regular beings organizations, activists, moerthsd teachers, the power to feel they have the opportunity to get up and actually act. white supremacists are going to support their power. they're going to maintain what they want to hold on to. they don't want minority people to come above them and tell them what they can and can't do. that's not the way of the land not what they don't, not in their history. that flag represents their power, they continuous power. if we remove that we don't have to replace it with anything
else, but we also start dismantling the very foundation they built and are sitting on comfortably. >> tamika lewis and todd rutherford. thank you both for joining us where. really appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead, the possibility that this is a watershed moment for republican presidential contenders and the confederate flag. plus, the comments that cost a 2016 hopeful one of his day jobs and could end up costing his party more. >> when mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. they're bringing drugs. they're bringing crime, they're rapist, and some, i assume, are good people. from centrum. a complete, and tasty new way to support... your energy... immunity... and metabolism like never before. centrum multigummies. see gummies in a whole new light. put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. it's a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. planters.
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the fbi and the atf are now investigating a string of at least five fires at predominantly black churches in the south. all of them occurring since the white supremacist attack on a historic black church in charleston nearly two weeks ago. three of the fires in knoxville, tennessee, macon, georgia, and charlotte, north carolina, have investigated as arson. investigators have yet to establish a cause for the other fires. at this point, we have many more questions than answers and joining me to fill in some of what we know joy reid who has been investigating the story. this has been something i have seen sort of on social media in the last five or six days. and you start to feel that feeling of like in the movie when they start putting the pins in the map of the serial killer like what's going on here? also, the south is big. there are tons of churches, and fires happen a lot. so what do we know right now? >> who is burning black churches
is a hashtag all over the place, and it's trending and people are putting them together in their minds because of the time proximity. you have the attack on the south carolina church on the 17th of june. >> charleston. >> in charleston. then on the 21st of june you have the first of these church fires that takes place in knoxville, tennessee. and that is one of the three that's being investigated as an arson. then, two days later, you have a second fire this one in macon, georgia, in which i believe $250,000 of damage has been done. the church is almost completely totaled. the next day, you have yet another fire in charlotte, north carolina, that takes place where are two days after that on the 26th a fourth fire at a baptist church in warrenville, south carolina, and shortly there after, two more one in gibson city tennessee, and one in tallahassee. here's the caveat. i did e-mail with the fbi spokesman today. right now, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms is investigating each of these individually. they don't have anything to tie
them together, but if you go through and look they're different in terms of denomination. the first church was a seventh-day adventist church. the second church was a church of christ then a baptist church and another baptist. denomally denomally denominationally denominationally, they're not similar, and of course, you have this history of particular the klan throughout the south sending a message to black people with two things. the confederate flag being a very potent symbol of hate and stay away from here and the burning and bombing of black churches. it's very potent in the minds of a lot of people. >> just to be clear because i have seen lists of five or six or seven. thriare three we have confirmed that are being investigated as arson. >> and a fourth a potential arson, but they're still too early in the investigation. there are two of them one of which is thought to be potentially be a lightning strike fire, the one in tallahassee, and one that may be electrical issues with the church. those two right now are not being investigated as arson, but thee are for sure.
a fourth could become an arson investigation. and obviously, we should also say there's, you bow, in terms of the steps of what we're looking at here, the first threshold is were these fires accidental. some of them they may be. others are investigated arson. even if they are found to be arson, definitively there's a question of what is the motivation, and we can imagine there would be a lot of motivations that are not white supremacist terror being waged against the congregations. presumably, that's something the atf and fbi are going to look into. >> i don't know if you recall not long ago in colorado there was an naacp incident where the building was shared by a tax office that turned out to be the actual target so the federal government -- >> and that's a good cautionary tale. because when you hear explosion, sort of unexploded improvised explosive device happened and there was federal investigators worried about this could be that it proved to be a different target. >> federal authorities are very
very notoriously cautious and we were saying in the break, i was thinking of the fire that is still under investigation as a potential arson of michael brown, sr.'s church and that took place inferguson missouri, and they're known to have four active large ku klux klan organizations, and south carolina has a large organization that is planning a march. there is plenty of hate activity. i spoke to someone from the southern poverty law center. they're looking at it because there is tons of hate activity. groups don't have to be actively colluding physically because you have so much online manifestation of hate behavior. if you compare what they're doing now back to what they used to do in the '20s and '30s, you had one organization, now you have these all atomized organizations, you have another white nationalist group there, so people like dylann roof can
organize themselves lone wolf style using social media or online. it's going to be a complicated investigation to piece together even if you figure out who all of the culprits are. >> thank you for that very illuminating. still ahead, another republican hopeful looks to officially enter the 2016 race as donald trump seems to be caught unaware by the news alt nbc dropped him. >> when i come out with a strong immigration stance, and i'm very strong on borders and i'm very strong on crime, that maybe i'll lose nbc along the way. if that happened that's fine. i'll probably have to bring a lawsuit against them. the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.
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carmax will be the best way to buy them. here is a simple math problem. two trains leave st. louis for albuquerque at the same time. same cargo, same size, same power. which one arrives first? hint: it's not the one on the left. the speedy guy on the right is part of an intelligent system that creates the optimal trip profile for all trains on the line. and the one on the left? uh, looks like it'll be counting cows for awhile. so maybe the same things aren't quite the same. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. today on the final day of its term, the supreme court issues several opinions. one blocked the most significant piece of clean regulation of the epa. although the decision was cheered by conservatives, the rule that governors mercury and other toxic emissions from coal
and other plants was not actually struck down but because of the ruling, the epa must rewrite it in light of today's decision. justice scalia who has garnered must attention for his fiery descents got to write the majority opinion. but a funny thing happens between his descent in the affordable care act, and his majority today. you remember on thursday justice scalia was horrified by the majority's interpretation of the affordable care act. words no longer have meaning if an exchange is not established by a state is established by a state. he was incensed with the way the majority looked at the context of the disputed words in the entire law to reach its decision. let us not forget however, why context matters. it's a tool for understanding the terms of the law, not an excuse for rewriting them. scalia called it jiggery pokery and pure applesauce. so scalia the jurist who looks
at the letter of the law, had the opportunity to apply that principle to today's decision. and the question was whether the epa must consider cost before it decides to enact a new regulation. the epa may regulate power plants and i'm quoting here if the administrator finds such regulation is appropriate and necessary after considering the results of the stud ay required by this subparagraph. you'll notice there's absolutely nothing in the text there about cost. now, there are other sections of the clean air act that talk about cost. in fact, the epa did consider cost in how it would implement the new regulation. scalia said that wasn't enough. read naturally in the present context, he wrote, the phrase appropriate and necessary requires at least some attention to cost. huh, so context matters to scalia in interpreting the clean
air act, but context befuddled and enraged him when the majority used it in interpreting the affordable care act. it's easy for a justice to hold on to a principle until it doesn't align with his preferences, so maybe he should shelf his insult common schtick, unnil he starts exhibiting the same him ocerousy he finds so galling in his colleagues. love loud, live loud polident. ♪ ♪ fresher dentures... ...for those breathless moments. hug loud, live loud, polident. ♪ ♪ you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're
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priebus and the rest of the republican party. the daily donald trump for president show is still going strong and it's all anyone can talk about. news today from nbc which announced it will cut its ties with trump, saying in a statement, due to the recent derogatory statements by donald trump regarding immigrants nbcuniversal is ending its business relationship with mr. trump. that also includes the ms. usa and ms. universe pageants. nbcuniversal is of course the parent company of msnbc. it looks like trump will not be returning to the celebrity apprentice. at first he appears to take the news in stride. >> nbc, frankly, i had a great relationship with them. they didn't want me to run because they wanted to do the apprentice. as you know, they renewed the apprentice, but i told them i cannot do the apprentice because of the fact i'm running. as long as i'm running for president, they were not happy with it. now with my statements on
immigration, which happen to be correct, they are going to take a different stance and that's okay. i think as far as ending the relationship, i have to do that. because my view on immigration is much different than the people at nbc. >> little later, however, trump released a new statement saying nbc is so weak and so foolish, and this is a statement he released mr. trump stands by his statements on illegal immigration, which are accurate. in case you have forgotten, these are the statements he says are accurate. >> when mexico sends its people they're not sending their best. they're not sending you. they're not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. they're rapists, and some i assume, are good people. >> this point reince priebus said the quotes were quote, not
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sam seal and all three you're going to recognize as contestants in our 2016 fantasy draft. michael steele is currently the leader with 500 points. i'll come to you first michael. >> hey. >> i genuinely think this is a problem for the republican party and for reince priebus, the trump factor. he is a magnet for attention. he is an expert troll. he is saying things that are genuinely offensive. at a certain point, like, what do you do about this if you're reince priebus? i'm serious. >> nothing, nothing. there's nothing you can do. presidential campaign is separate and apart from the republican national committee, as all campaigns are. you can sit down and said as he said on friday it's not helpful, but by and large, this candidates will run their campaign the way they want to. they will say, as we saw in 2012, as we have seen in other presidential races, they seem to take on a life of their own, and
the party is largely helpless to deal with it. the only thing you really do is have to answer for it because when these statements are made microphones are placed in front of every presidential candidate, every party official, to respond to it. so then his message will be just walk past it ignore it keep going, just don't respond. >> sam, it strikes me that there is ground to be made if you're a republican candidate to just go hard at trump, particularly on the immigration issue. this is why it's such a nightmare for reince priebus, this is an issue that they did horribly on in 2012 a issue that is a threshold issue, the substance of the policy and also, is this party filled with people who are bigoted against people like me? you don't want that to be the thing. so someone's got to step out and say, no this is not an okay thing to say. >> the problem is is that if they did that they wouldn't be a republican presidential contender. i mean look -- >> do you think that's true?
>> the problem that trump has for the republican party is that he actually articulates the subtext. and so the republicans can say, like, hey, it's inappropriate for you tao talk about the subtext of what our policies are, but that's about it. so the only thing they can say, like it's really inappropriate for you to describe the exact policy that i have in that manner. so this is the problem that they have with trump, is that they can go at him for being rude but just trump turns around and says, i'm just telling it like it is. don't you want to build a wall? yes, mr. trump, i do. well, i'm going to build a bigger wall. what's your answer? and that's the end of the conversation. >> once you start defending the mexican immigrants as being not necessarily the worst of all humanity then the question becomes, why would be not want to help them earn some sort of legal status? >> and trump did add some are good people. so that's always the protection. yeah michael. >> i was going to say, the
problem i have with sam's argument is that that is not the subtext of the republican party. jeb bush has a very clear separate and distinct view from donald trump as does marco rubio on this issue. >> policy wise what's the difference? >> well marco rubio and donald trump -- i mean and jeb bush aren't talking about building a wall and electrifying it and keeping people out of the country. >> they're not? >> they haven't talked about electrifying it. >> wait a second. wait a second. >> look this is the problem. everyone wants to put all these guys in one little box and say that they're all the same. they're not. and so you're just not going to get away with those types of arguments that sort of lump donald trump and everybody else together. >> michael, if that's true, right, so let's separate out two things. there's one, the question on the table resolved mexico sending its worst people who are criminals and into drugs and
rapists, right, and there's what should we do about comprehensive immigration reform? let's table the comprehensive immigration reform. just the thing donald trump said, it seems like the ease ystz thing in the world for me for jeb bush or anyone to say, that was a terrible thing to say and it's not true and the vast majority of people who come to this country from mexico whether legal or undocumented are probably great people trying to do the best for their families. like it's a very easy way to resolve this. >> agreed. two things. one, it likely will get resolved on august 6th in cleveland. because i'm almost certain that will be a question that's raised or one of the candidates will raise it. and number two, why would you engage at this stage as you're ramping up your campaign to get into, you know a fight with donald trump on something that's everyone in the country knows is just not correct? so let it go. as i said before let it go. >> right. >> deal with it in time. there's no need to engage when you don't have to. >> i think the person who should have said it was rand paul. i mean rand paul had a whole
week to come out and differentiate himself as the republican who was going to talk to african-american voters who was going to talk to latino voters, who could have said something incredibly libertarian on gay marriage and he was quiet all week. michael's point that everybody is not in the same box is totally correct, but we know the republicans need to do dramatic rebranding in order to appeal to younger voters and none of these 15 people -- >> i'm curious to see what happens on august 6th. because rick perry, remember what happened to rick perry? >> i get the fact okay that there's going to be a lot of fear of trump on august 6th because they're looking at the polls in new hampshire, but i'm sorry. the idea that the republican candidates on that stage are going to spend time arguing with donald trump that mexicans don't deserve his insults towards them is just beyond the pale. >> you don't think they will? some of them will absolutely some of them. >> some of them will
absolutely. >> that's a layup. >> absolutely. >> but they're not going to spend a lot of time on it. >> exactly. >> he's going to come back and say how is your policy different from mine? then they're in a problem just like michael was, because the fact is they might say electric, but he didn't say electric. he just said he was going to make the best wall ever. >> let's be clear, donald trump is running to make america great again, and no one can argument with that. that's an argument ender. we're going to get chris christie tomorrow. a lot of people are saying i had an argument today with someone who said why is he doing that? people forget he's a genuinely talented retail politician. as bad shape as he is if he comes in second or first in new hampshire, if he lives there for eight months and shakes the hand of every primary voter, you never know what happens. >> and new hampshire becomes a big x-factor not just for everybody, but particularly for someone like christie who is
upset the apple cart and make people have to play a different game. that's really what his strength is going to be going into this. he's going to bring baggage in. you know, you talked about it on the show. and we have heard the stories. but how he manages that is important. but how he is able to engage the new hampshire voters is even more important, which as i suspect he's going to do, you're right, he's going to put the camp there and just live and camp new hampshire for as long as he can to turn that narrative around on the ground through that vote. >> if this hinges on chris christie being able to make a state of voters like him, personally -- >> he did it twice in new jersey. >> that's new jersey. he insults a school teacher. >> people like that schtick, and -- >> you know tell it to rudy giuliani, i'm sorry. new shamp hr would have been his last primary, if he didn't have this whole specter of being under investigations at this point. if he finishes in the top five
in new hampshire. >> the big question about chris christie is can he do flinty? that's the question. michael steele, i love that word. jess, and sam, thank you all. that is "all in" for this evening. "rachel maddow show" starts. >> the old man in the mountain fell down in new hampshire. there's a job opening there. i'm just saying. >> really? >> yeah they had to -- they put him back together with aggregate and glue for a long time. now the old man in the mountain is kind of gone. very awkward. anyway thank you. >> thanks to you at home for staying with us. happy monday. lots going on. you thought the supreme court made huge news on thursday? then even huger news on friday. well, they continued to make fairly huge news today. and then after they made their fairly huge news this morning, and everybody thought they were done for the day, they made even more huge news this afternoon. so there's a lot going on in the news today. in states