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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  June 29, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT

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e in new hampshire. >> the big question about chris christie is can he do flinty? that's the question. michael steele, i love that word. jess, and sam, thank you all. that is "all in" for this evening. "rachel maddow show" starts. >> the old man in the mountain fell down in new hampshire. there's a job opening there. i'm just saying. >> really? >> yeah they had to -- they put him back together with aggregate and glue for a long time. now the old man in the mountain is kind of gone. very awkward. anyway thank you. >> thanks to you at home for staying with us. happy monday. lots going on. you thought the supreme court made huge news on thursday? then even huger news on friday. well, they continued to make fairly huge news today. and then after they made their fairly huge news this morning, and everybody thought they were done for the day, they made even more huge news this afternoon. so there's a lot going on in the news today. in states all over the country,
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in part, due to the role that the united states supreme court has been on over the past few days into this morning and this afternoon. we're going to get to all of that tonight. a big show tonight. but first things first. because i think we know each other well enough now that i can safely say that i know when you tune in to this show every night at 9:00 eastern, it is because you are reeseinably expecting quite a lot of this. >> brazil. >> brazil and her friends brought a homeless man to spend time with them. they gave him new clothes and took him to eat in a restaurant and it brought her great joy. presenting brazil. >> they took him to eat in a
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restaurant. welcome to the "rachel maddow show" unofficial taxonomy for beauty pageants. let's get this straight right here. let's get this sorted okay? what you're watching here now is ms. universe the winner of last year's ms. universe was ms. colombia, the first runner up the woman who will have to fulfill ms. colombia's duties if she's unable to do so was ms. usa. now, the way you get to be ms. usa, the way you get to represent the united states of america in front of the whole entire universe at the ms. universe pageant is that you have to win the ms. usa beauty pageant contest thing itself. ms. usa, this is important, ms. usa is not the same thing as ms. america. do not mistake one for the other. i once mistook ms. usa for ms.
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america or maybe it was vice versa versa, but boy was i sorry. they're very different things. ms. usa, ms. america, totally different. for example, there is no talent competition in the ms. usa pageant. there's no baton twirling no flute playing, no puppet that dances in clogs. that's the kind of thing you see in ms. america. no talent competition in ms. usa. to be ms. usa, to try to win the chance to be ms. universe, you don't get to show any particular talent or skill. you just have to compete in evening gowns, there is a swimsuit competition, but there is also an interview. and sometimes the interview is hard. >> in recent weeks, the u.s. has released five detainees from guantanamo in exchange for one u.s. soldier held captive in afghanistan. the u.s. policy is to leave no soldier behind. do you think it's fair to sacrifice or swap lives in order to uphold this policy? >> i am glad that we got our guy back. however, i do not feel it was right that we subject ourself to
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these acts of terrorism. i do agree with our guy being back, but however, i do not think we should subject ourselves. thank you. >> nailed it. so that's ms. usa. ms. usa is part of the ms. universe organization. it also includes something called ms. teen usa. to compete in ms. teen usa, you have to be between 14 years old and 18 years old and good at saving all your after school ice cream scooping money to spend on the evening gowns. those evening gowns are not cheap. take it from me. so that's the umbrella of ms. universe pageants. ms. teen usa, ms. usa, ms. universe. not to be confused with ms. america. >> the very first ms. universe was from finland, pageant as you can tell has been around for a long time since 1952. it's only in the last couple decades, since 1996 that that family of beauty pageants teen
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usa, usa and universe only since 1996 that those pageants have been partially owned by this man. real estate developer donald trump. he bought a stake in that family of beauty pageants the ms. universe family of beauty pageants in 1996. and since that year being in the beauty pageant business has been one very visible part of donald trump's public profile. mr. trump has a lot of different businesses, sure but one of the things he does is he co-owns these beauty pageants. i was not always clear on that fact. now i know and now you know. and this is another thing that he does. this is a reality tv show called quality the apprentice." you have probably heard of it. i didn't really understand the premise, but the premise is that donald trump asks people to demonstrate their business skills by doing businessy type activities quickly and under duress. quick, market this product.
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and then he fires people at the end of each episode. the "apprentice" has been on television for more than a decade. there's always a version of "the apprentice" in which the contestants are celebrities. the celebrity version of the apprentice goes like this. >> i'm not sitting here screaming and ranting and raving. that's not my style. i'll have a conversation with him later, should i survive. >> later, should you survive. that's right. should you survive? should you survive? >> should i survive. >> you think he should? >> i absolutely do. >> do you think so? >> yes. >> you do? then you're fired. >> oh, kevin. so that's the celebrity one. it's basically the apprentice except the people who are competing are people you might have seen on tv before. including a guy who looks a lot like huhgeraldo reverse, but i'm
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sure it's not him. instead of competing for a job with donald trump, the celebrity people compete for donations to charity. now you know. a simple taxonomy of the way this person exists in public life. for the last couple decades, donald trump has been known as a businessman, as a perennial maybe politician, but he's also been an owner of and a star in these tv events and these tv shows. all of which aired on a tv network called nbc. nbc aired every one of donald trump's tv properties. until today. today, nbcuniversal and i should say here we are part of nbcuniversal. they cut all tied with donald trump. so nbc will no longer air ms. universe or ms. usa, donald trump will no longer participate in the apprentice or the celebrity apprentice. this is the statement from nbc today. quote, at nbc, respect and dignity for all people are
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cornerstones of our values. due to the recent derogatory statements by mr. trump, nbcuniversal is ending its business relationship with mr. trump. now, the derogatory statements nbc is taking issue with, those were urparentally the statements he made when he announced his presidential run. >> when mexico sends its people they're not sending their best. they're sending people that have lots of problems. and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs. they're bringing crime. they're rapists, and some i assume, are good people. >> the spanish language network univision was first to say that they would no longer be airing mr. trump's beauty pageants after he made those remarks in his presidential announcement. today, nbcuniversal followed suit. mr. trump reacted to the univision newed by blaming the mexican government. and also by vaguely threatening
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to sue univision. he reacted to the nbc statement like this. quote, as of today, donald j. trump is no longer affiliated with nbc. mr. trump stands by his statements on illegal immigration, which are accurate. nbc is weak. i continue. and like everybody else is trying to be politically correct. that's why our country is in serious trouble. in the most recent national fox news poll of republican presidential contenders former florida governor jeb bush comes in first place. the person who comes in second place is -- ding ding ding donald trump. the mexico sends its rapists to the united states guy. second place in national polling right now. which means not only that donald trump's comments got all of his tv shows booted off the air, they also at the same time gave him a huge bump among republican primary voters in terms of who they might want to be president. but in very specific terms, that polling also means if things
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keep going the way they're going with donald trump polling at the top tier of republican presidential candidates, he is definitely going to earn a spot at least on the first debate stage for the first republican presidential debate in august. that first debate will be moderated by fox news. they have set the criteria only the top ten candidates in an average of five national polls leading up to the debate will be allowed on the stage. if they keep going the way they have been going, he's going to be taking up a precious podium on the debate stage. it's a zero sum game. it's a zero sum game. they're only going to take the top ten. if he's there, his presence will mean that somebody else will not be on the stage who otherwise would have made it. donald trump may be there on stage in cleveland, ohio for that first republican presidential debate, trying to earn the republican nomination for president. he at this point will likely be there, but this guy will not. this guy is the governor of ohio. john kasich, sitting governor of
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the all important swing state of ohio. he's served in the ohio state legislature, in congress now the governor of the state, but judging by the poll numbers there's no way he'll make it on the stage for the debate. donald trump has a great chance. the governor of ohio in part because of donald trump, not so great a chance. john kasich is set to announce his presidential run toward the end of july. we learned today he's due to announce on july 21st. and that timing may be a good strategic choice for john kasich. at least it seems like he's trying to give himself the best possible chance of getting into that debate. if people are getting a bump in the polls after their announcement. if you're trying to get a bump in the polls between the day of your announcement and the days preceding the debate, maybe it's his best shot. fox news has set their criteria that could get donald trump into the debate easy but not the governor of the state where the debate is held.
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declaring on july 21st maybe he'll get enough of a bounce that it will start appearing for him in national polls. maybe. it's his best chance. but probably also his only chance. things have to go great for john kasich. so this is what the republican field looks like right now. john kasich will announce july 21st. and of course, tomorrow we've got a big announcement from a really interesting candidate this year this was a video that new jersey governor chris christie put out today on the eve of his announcement tomorrow that he will seek the republican nomination for president. and honestly you can tell it's nicely shot. even just from the snippet, a good video, well edited well put together. about his mom, talking about what his mother told him on her deathbed. it's nice. it seems like the whole chris christie campaign the christie for president motto, for example, telling it like it is is all going to be about this feeling of chris christy's bluntness, his honestly he tells it like it is a straight
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talker. and that sort of is chris christie's strength his political brand. he's great in front of a crowd, he can be charming. he could turn his blunt political style into a strength. he can use it to set himself apart and make other politicians' diplomatic manner work against them. it works for him. that's why the debate issue for chris christie is maybe even more a matter of political survival than it is for any other candidate. he has to get into the first debate because that's the one place he really might be able to shine. that's his whole presidential sales pitch. he tells it like it is. he's a good talker. he's real not like the other guys. you see him against the other politicians and you'll like him the best. right now, chris christie is doing terribly in the national polls. he comes in ninth or tenth place. sort of in john kasich territory. if you look at his home state polls, the approval ratings in yuu unew jersey, the national polls
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look rosy by comparison. his polling by his own constituents is terrible and it keeps getting worse. the mostresisant poll, this is an all-time low for him in terms of disapproval in new jersey. they said they disliked everything about chris christie. they could choose him or his policies but they chose to say they disliked everything about him. now, today on the eve of his presidential announcement the largest newspaper in new jersey has published an editorial the likes of which i am not sure i have ever seen before. look at this. this from the star ledger it's called after 14 years of watching chris christie, a warning. he lies. quote, most americans don't know chris christie like i do so it's only natural to wonder what testimony i might offer after covering his every move for the last 14 years. is it his raw political talent? no, they can see that. his miserable failure to fix the economy? no his opponents will cover
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that if he ever gets traction. my testimony amounts to a warning. don't believe -- don't believe a word the man says. don't misunderstand me. they all lie, and i get that but chris christie does it with such audacity and such freakquencey that he stepands out. you assume jengenuine conviction is behind it but be careful. it's a kind of spell. a remarkable talent with a silver tongue, but if you look closely, you can see it's forked by a serpent's says the largest paper in his state. chris christie is going to formally join the race for president tomorrow. something tells me the papers in his home state are just getting started on that idea. two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪
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putting on a movie. i'm trying to watch the game here. look i need this right now ok? come on i don't want to watch that. too bad this is happening. fine, what if i just put up the x1 sports app right here. ah jeez it's so close. he just loves her so much. do it. come on. do it. come on! yes! awww, yes! that is what i'm talking about. baby. call and upgrade to get x1 today. ♪ question. has your name ever appeared right in the middle of a supreme court opinion? have you ever been cited by name by the united states supreme
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court? if you answered yes to that next guest. the great dolly joins me next. her name appeared today in one of the most hotly anticipated supreme court sessions of this session. dahlia, by name right there, right in the middle of it. she's here next. ♪ [music] ♪ jackie's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. staying in rhythm... it's how i try to live... how i stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... introducing boost 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. so it's big in nutrition and small in calories. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®.
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introducing the first ever gummy multivitamin from centrum. a complete, and tasty new way to support... your energy... immunity... and metabolism like never before. centrum multigummies. see gummies in a whole new light. one thing to keep in mind about the next election is that unless it is a huge democratic wave year, which is possible but really hard to do unless it's a huge democratic wave this guy is still going to be speaker of the house after the next election. it's almost a foregone conclusion no matter what else happens in the next election republicans are going to keep
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control of the house and john boehner is going to stay the speaker. that's because the game is rigged. in their favor. and it's not a conspiracy, not a secret. it's the way we do things. the constitution says we have to do a census of the country where everybody gets counted. that's done once every ten years. the last census year in 2010 republicans had a great year that year. they won seats in the house, in the senate they won governorships, control in a bunch of state legislatures and that ended up being crucial because they used republican control in the states to draw new lines after the census for congressional districts. they drew new congressional district maps that guaranteed that more republicans would win seats in congress from those states. and if you do that and enough states in this country, it becomes almost struckarily impossible for republicans to lose control of congress. in 2012 more votes were cast for democrats than republicans. more people went to the polling place on election day in 2012
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and votes for a democrat to be their member of congress but it didn't matter. the republicans still got a big majority in the house because the congressional districts were drawn in such a way to guarantee that republicans win no matter how the voting goes. and even when democrats overall get more votes, republicans overall get more seats. well today, at the united states supreme court, the justices of the supreme court ruled 5-4 in favor of a less totally biased way of electing our congress. in arizona and in california and a few other states they don't draw the congressional districts by the usual totally partisan process that's designed to help one party and hurt the other. in a few states including arizona, which was the case today, they have a bipartisan balanced expert commission that draws the districts instead of letting the politicians do it. it's a way that's supposed to be fair to everyone instead of just picking one party to win. republicans in arizona sued
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because they wanted the process to be more partisan. they're in control of state government, they wanted to draw the congressional maps themselves to help republicans more. but the supreme court today upheld the districts being drawn instead in this bipart expert good government technocratic way instead. that immediately effects arizona, but it's also a signal to good government types and reformers all around the country that you can do your congressional districts in a better way. you can stop rigging the game if you want to. no pressure. just in case the supreme court wasn't making enough news already, these past few days today they did hand down that ruling on congressional districts being decided in a technocratic nonpartisan way and that being an okay thing to do. they also blocked the epa from regulating emissions from power plants. they blocked texas from implementing its new antiabortion law which was supposed to go into effect the day after tomorrow, and that would have probably closed
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almost every abortion clinic in the state of texas, and they also today announced they're taking up a hugely controversial affirmative action case also from texas, a case that will be a national flash point for the court and the country over the next supreme court term. and, and, and, and today on the last day of their term they also did something that i think has never been done before. at least not in modern times. you know pete williams the nbc justice correspondent. when it comes to the courts and the law, pete williams frankly, has seen everything. and he is legendary for being completely unflappable. everybody else will have their hair on fire about something, and pete williams is like, eh don't you remember this also happened in alabama in 1947? exclamation points turn themselves into semicolons and periods when they see pete williams coming. he's the calmest man on earth, mr. nonplussed. but today, from the court, he filed this.
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a very unusual display of passion today in the courtroom. i can't remember the last this happened and neither can anyone else around here. i mean coming from anyone that would be intriguing. coming from pete williams, that's like a flash bang grenade. he never says anything is a big deal. but what happened at the court today was kind of a big deal. at least it was strange. and it happened in the big death penalty case. this was the case about the specific lethal injection drug that was used in three different screwed up executions in three different states last year. in january last year it was ohio. where a man was struggling and gasping and choking and heaving for more than 20 minutes. then three months later in april, it was in oklahoma. that's where it took more than 40 minutes, and again the guy was writhing and gasping and speaking when he was supposed to be unconscious. that's the one where they called off the execution in the middle and tried to stop killing him because something was going wrong. then three months after that in july, it was in arizona.
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that's where it took them more than two hours to kill the guy. witnesses say they saw the man gasp and choke more than 600 times. in all of those cases, the same thing happened. the person they were killing was initially knocked out, at least it seems they were knocked eded out. but then the person did not stay unconscious. the guy came back and appeared to be writhing in pain and conscious of what was happening to them. all three of those screwed up executions last year all used this drug as the drug that was supposed to make the guy unconscious. now, this drug is not an an u anesthetic anesthetic. it's supposed to relax you, call you down, in the same class as valium or xanax. the case the supreme court ruled on today, in the last day of its session, the case they ruled on today is whether or not it's constitutional to carry out a lethal injection execution specifically using that drug. and the five conservative
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justices on the court ruled that it is constitutional. it's okay. justice alito writing for the majority argued it is constitutional to use that drug to kill people in part because the prisoners who brought this lawsuit didn't suggest any better idea. got to do it somehow. from the ruling quote, because it is settled that capital punishment is constitutional it necessarily follows there must be a constitutional means of carrying it out. that was the majority opinion. that was the ruling. justice sonia sotomayor did not join that opinion. she was having none of that. she argued in descent, quote, if the death penalty is constitutional the court reasons there must be a means of accomplishing that but a method of execution that is barbarous or volving lingering death does not become
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less so if all means of conducting an executeion are cruel, then conducting that execution will constitute cruel and unusual punishment. it would not matter if the state used midaz lam or had them quarters and tortures to death or burned at the stake. so, in the court today, in the actual physical supreme court in front of everybody, justice elitealito read the majority opinion for the court. and then justice sotomayor, after him, she read her dissent, the blistering dissent, they only really read aloud from the bench when they're fired up about it. after she read her burning at the stake dissent, then it got more dramatic because after she red her dissent, then buyer said he wanted to read his dissent, too. he said he believes the wroel death penalty no matter how you
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do it is probably unconstitutional. over 40 pages in this elaborate and forceful dissent has charts and maps and everything. justice briar lays out a case by case that quote, the death penalty in and of itself now likely constitutes a legally prohibiting cruel and unusual punishment. so justice alito reads the opinion. then drama, justice sotomayor reads her dissent outloud, and then even more drama, justice brier reads his dissent out loud, too, and said the whole death penalty is unconstitutional, and not just more drama, but unprecedented drama because after the opinion and the dissent gets read outloud and then the other dissent gets read outloud, but wait there's more. justice scalia said he would like to read something outloud, too. four justices going at each other outloud from the bench.
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justice scalia read a concourageance was it was basically a rebuttal to justice breyer, and that drama, the four justices all addressing each other from the bench, that is what pete williams today called a very unusual display of passion. something no one could remember seeing at the court. the iniminable and efficient dahlia was there at the court when all of this happened. even before justice scalia started talking, dahlia's take was whatever was happening at the court, i'm going to quote her, was notable and really weird. then, once justice scalia popped up to be the fourth justice to speak outloud on the case, she bottom lined the whole thing, quote, this was very odd. you see she italicized the word very. emphasis on the word very. this was a weird day at the
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supreme court and i'm not sure i totally understand it. joining us now is dahlia. dahlia is cited by name, by justice bryer on page dwun21 of his dissent. congratulations. is that like another day at the office for you. i'm cited in this supreme court opinion? that's no big deal. >> that's a pretty big deal. i have to say, being cited for writing one of thousands of articles that nobody reads about how much the death penalty sucks in a dissent that says nobody is going to read this because we lost, the death penalty sucks, i'll take it. >> i read all of your articles and posts about how the death penalty sucks. you went out of your way to say this was a weird moment in the court, kind of a weird day in the court, the way the rulings came down then you said this was very odd what justice scalia did today, specifically. what was so odd about what he did? >> i think he invented a new form today, rachel. usually, when they read as you
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said, almost nobody ever reads from their dissent aloud. usually, you afford the courtesy to whoever wrote the majority opinion, you move on. more and more we're hearing people read from dissents and chief justice roberts for the first time last week read one and surprised everybody. now we're getting one dissenter reading and then another one, and then scalia doing some sort of spoken word dissent. it's not clear he was reading from a summary. it didn't track what he wrote, which was, as you said just an all out assault on justice breyer, but he was kind of randomly bringing in the marriage cases and there the court usurped state prerogatives. it was strange, as though he was just here's some stuff that makes me grumpy. and he was saying it. >> to be clear, though you're saying he didn't read something. he just kind of gave an off the cuff speech about what he didn't like? >> well, it's really hard to say. usually, when a justice does a
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summary opinion, they hand it to the press office and they hand those out so we can see the discrepancies between what was said in the summary and what's in the opinion. we didn't get one today. so was he actually reading? was he glancing down? i can't say. it doesn't read like his dissent, like his concurrence reads. it's quite a different style. and he was very mad about marriage. >> on this substance of the death penalty ruling today, as i understand it had this gone the other way, this could have very much changed the implementation of the death penalty in this country. this basically leaves the death penalty in tact as it is logistically, still a lot of questions as to whether it can continue to be carried out because of access to drugs. do you think this actually made the death penalty legally stronger today, or did it sort of just leave it status quo? >> oh, i think it made it stronger. it said to the states you know as long as your protocol doesn't
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offend some threshold which is not knowable anymore, then you're okay, and we're not going to micromanage you, and i also think that it's really interesting that only justices breyer and ginsburg signed off on that much narrower dissent saying it's always going to be unconstitutional because there's no way to make it fair. justices kagan and sotomayor said they want to make it fair in oklahoma. they don't like the drug but they're willing to be open to finding a better protocol. so it seems as though the general force of the opinion is states can go ahead and experiment with their cocktails and you know do your best and as justice sotomayor said the fact that the prisoner may in fact experience something that's akin to being burned at the stake, which is as she described it, well that's not really in violation of the eighth amendment. >> wow stunning. dahlia senior editor and legal correspondent for slate magazine congratulations on the
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footnote. thanks for being here. we have lots more ahead tonight, including the fascinating pushback against some of last week's huge supreme court decisions and lots of politics. stay with us. s a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...
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♪ whoa what are you doing? putting on a movie. i'm trying to watch the game here. look i need this right now ok? come on i don't want to watch that. too bad this is happening. fine, what if i just put up the x1 sports app right here. ah jeez it's so close. he just loves her so much. do it. come on. do it. come on! yes! awww, yes! that is what i'm talking about. baby. call and upgrade to get x1 today. ♪ of grief to gauge how red state america feels today, after enduring a week of some of the biggest liberal victories in modern american history, it would appear that deep red
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states are still toggling roughly between denial and anger. denial and anger, i would say bargaining depression acceptance are stages a ways off in the distance for some of the red states. the new reality that red states are trying or not to wake up to what they're trying to do to stave off reality as best they can, that fairly dramatic story is next. ♪ ♪ when you're living with diabetes steady is exciting. only glucerna has carbsteady clinically proven to help minimize blood sugar spikes. so you stay steady ahead. song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand
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only glucerna has carbsteady clinically proven to help minimize blood sugar spikes. so you stay steady ahead. on friday the united states supreme court cleared up what has been the chaotic and confusing and constantly shifting question of who in this country is allowed to get married and where. the highest court in the nation on friday said that gay marriage is legal in all 50 states. much simp lar than it used to be. marriage equality all 50 states done. settled. we got that landmark clarifying ruling on friday and we got to throw out all of our old maps showing all the places where your rights faded in and out as you crossed state lines. then this is the news in alabama today. alabama in legal knots over gay marriage. alabama chief justice roy moore first told local justices in
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alabama that they could not give licenses to same-sex couples to get married for the next 25 days. then he said actually they just didn't have to give people licenses for the next 25 days. to which one county judge responded, quote, i'm not real clear what this ruling is saying. it's very unclear. so you think this was simple right, but in alabama, some counties have been going ahead and marrying people like the supreme court says they have to. other counties have decided not only can not gay people get married, but if gay people can get married then actually nobody will be allowed to get married there. two alabama counties are saying they're out of the marriage business all together. they're not doing marriage licenses for straight people or gay people they're so upset by the gay people developments. other counties say they haven't made up their minds yet. they're waiting for judge roy moore's made up 25-day waiting period to be over and who knows what will happen. alabama is not the only state where stuff like this is
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happening. in tax taxexas, the dallas morning news is trying to pin down every county, trying to pin them down updating this map as they go as they figure out what rights are being applied in which counties. several of the states most populous counties are going ahead with marriages for same-sex couples but some counties aren't. that's texas, complicating matters further is that the state's attorney general is basically encouraging county officials that they ought to defy the supreme court ruling and then mississippi, a lot of county clerks in mississippi are issuing licenses to same-sex couples, but the mississippi governor apparently thinks there's some way to stop this thing or delay it. phil bryant of mississippi has written to the federal district court there asking the court to keep an old stay in place even though the supreme court has ruled and been very clear about the implications of their ruling. you have sort of a stand-off
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between all of these mississippi couples thought got told by the court that they have the right to get married and the governor of the state saying wait right there, indefinitely. but in mississippi, those couples who want to marry, they have on their side exactly who you would want on your side in a case like this. they have roberta kaplan roberta kaplan is the lawyer who tookedy windsor's case all the way to the supreme court two years ago. she argued the justices should overturn the federal defense of marriage act and as you know she won that case and then right after winning that case robby kaplan went to mississippi where she argued in federal court that mississippi's ban on same-sex marriage was unconstitutional. fresh off the supreme court, made that case in mississippi of all places and she won. and now, with that landmark supreme court ruling on friday roberta is right back in this fight to make that supreme court decision not just lasting and simple law, but present day reality right now.
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even where opposition to equality has been tireless entrenched, and fierce, and occasionally deliberately confusing. joining us now is roberta kaplan who successfully argued the case that strek down doma. did i get that right about what's going on in mississippi? >> pretty much. >> in terms of the big picture here, i feel like we've got sort of dead enders. i feel like there's people who are slow walking the inevitable. >> they're mad about marriage i think you said. some people mad about marriage. >> i don't feel like as a nonlawyer, i look at this and don't feel there's legal ambiguity. >> it's going to be clear. i don't think there's going to be much of a battle. even before there was a clear supreme court case supreme court decision, in states where there were marriage states like north carolina et cetera there's usually one county, two counties, a bunch more and
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extra county caught up. i think we're going to see the same thing in mississippi, louisiana, and hopefully even in alabama. >> if they dig in in a place like alabama, mississippi, or certain parts of the state, how does it get resolved? does it have to go all the way back through the court? >> in the fifth circuit, i think they want to clarify things. the fifth circuit issued on its own orders in all three cases asking the parties to say to the court their position on whether, which the court concluded on whether the supreme court case was controlling. and they said they believe it was controlling, and given the fact it's controlling, the circuit said what do you want us to do? what kind of order would you like us to issue? that letter went out today. the plaintiffs in texas and mississippi have submitted answers. we're waiting for the governor in mississippi to submit his answer, but i think the fifth circuit is ready to act. >> in terms of in the places where there is the most political resistance and the most political showboating around these things what is the sort of horizon, the time horizon in terms of how long it
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will take to resolve these cases, worst case scenario? >> that all dependents on the fifth circuit, but i think it's a matter of days. i think it's only a matter of days. mississippi has 82 counties, a little less than texas, and a bunch of those are already married people. as we have seen over the last few years, once people are married, those are the facts on the ground. it's pretty hard to stop it. >> how do you feel overall? >> i have never felt better. pinching myself every five minutes. >> do you have -- how did edie react? >> she cried. i think that edie even when we won windsor, she just turned 86 and i don't think she thought she would live to see this day. so the fact that she waw alievve to see it and so thrilled she really wept. >> do you feel -- >> so did i, but i thought it would happen in my lifetime but i would be older than i am today. >> you were volved in some difficult, strategic discussions
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and fights in the movement and with lawyers and different types of approaches. do you feel like everybody is vindicated because it came out the way everybody wanted it to come out in terms of how this was fath for? do you think there's a lesson to be learned in terms of what the next fight is? >> the ultimate lesson that should be learned, and you had mary on when you think you have a legal case to bring, and you have a constitutional right to be vindicated, you have to bring that case. you may not win all the time. mary didn't win in the beginning, we didn't win in new york, but ultimately we won. you have change not only minds but you have to change hearts. >> you have to push even when it's not a consensus decision. >> absolutely. >> roberta kaplan thank you for your time tonight. >> we have much more ahead, stay with us.
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ever since he launched what was supposed to be his long-shot presidential campaign vermont senator bernie sanders has been drawing really really big crowds. he's also polling several atmospheres above his expected trajectory. bernie sanders is giving himry clinton a little bit of something that looks like a run for the democratic nomination. but it turns out in one key state, bernie sanders is the one thing you cannot be if you want to succeed there. bernie-mentum has hit a very interesting speed bump. that's next song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me.
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♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. here's one more thin to watch in presidential politics right now. we have recently been covering the big crowds that vermont
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senator bernie sanders has been turning out around the country. honestly, you're not going to believe me when i say this but it's true. he has been turning out bigger crowds than any other presidential candidate. as much as they don't want to admit it he's turning out bigger crowds than anybody. and yes, senator sanders is so far behind hillary clinton in national polling that he cannot even be seen if her rear view mirror, but as a campaigner, he's been getting a very big liberal response. he's been getting a big fund-raising response, a big volunteer response a big response in terms of enthusiasm. if you listen to reporters, they will tell you that the bernie sanders crowds are really legitimately fired up compared to everybody else's crowds. and yes, i can feel your hate mail pouring in. yes, i know. hillary clinton is probably going to win the nomination but
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it is also true that bernie sanders has unexpectedly gone off like a rocket. and the evidence of that is plain to see. here's one thing to watch, though, because senator bernie sanders may have a problem. specifically in one of the states where he is polling very well, and that is the state of new hampshire. in new hampshire, they are required to fill out a form, a form that the candidate is supposed to use to affirm his or her party registration. on the form, the candidate has to affirm that he or she is a registered member of the party in which he or she is running for the presidential nomination. senator sanders obviously is running for the democratic nomination for president, but senator sanders technically speaking is not a democrat. he's an independent socialist, right? god bless you. and we know that senator sanders is running for the democratic nomination. we know he would surely be happy to call himself a democrat in order to get on the ballot in
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new hampshire obviously. the problem is it's not clear how can he do that because bernie sanders is a registered voter in his home state of vermont. in vermont, you don't register by party. so, even if he wanted to switch his party affiliation to democrat in order to be able to varyilyyily affirm there's, there's nowhere and no way for him to do that. and that's a glitch right? it's just a detail. but if say, the republican majority on the new hampshire ballot law commission or somebody else at some point in the process tries to turn this into a thing, this might be a thing. bernie sanders, technically, can't run for the democratic nomination in new hampshire if they don't technically consider him to be a democrat. if this does end up becoming a
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thing, the feel the bern bernie-mentum is going to have something to go nuts about. as they say watch this space. we will see you again tomorrow. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> do you know what donald trump is doing right now? >> no. >> at this moment he's in his pajamas retweeting compliments about himself. and tonight he is watching this show where four years ago he of course threatened to sue me. and normally what he does when he threatens to sue cable news hosts is not actively sue them but obsessively and hatefully watch their shows. so watch twitter. watch hawhat happens now. >> hi donald! >> it is good news and bad news for donald trump. the good news is he