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tv   MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts  MSNBC  July 29, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm PDT

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home in jupiter, florida. adam reese is also joining us with the latest on the search. kerry, let me start with you and what you understand about the coast guard visit. >> reporter: well this has been a very difficult five days as you can imagine, for the family members. making it even harder as each hour goes by there is the sense that the possibility of these boys surviving is diminishing. now we're five days into the search so it's really unclear whether they could be alive if they were found. there was a report that came out that the associated press reported that the search had been called off. then a short time later, a captain who's heading up the search efforts for the u.s. coast guard came to the families' home here and everybody began to wonder is this providing the last piece of information to the family that the coast guard was calling off the search. indeed, he says that is not the case. you're going to hear him in just one moment. it was very quick. but also important to note is that walking out with him were all the representatives of these
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two boys' families holding each other's hands, united in their belief that the coast guard could still possibly find somebody out there, maybe both boys. now let's listen to mark fedor. >> i feel that as long as they're searching and they're the experts, then we can continue on and on and on. >> reporter: and so pamela cohen, who is perry's mother and osaustin stephanos' mother stacked united hoping and waiting that the search which extends up all the way off the coast of south carolina may turn up some information. it's important to note that the eyes and ears out there on the water are providing some clues, although mostly false leads. there's one off georgia yesterday.
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the coast guard rushed two helicopters to that location as well as boats. when they got there, somebody had said they thought they saw somebody out there that could be a person. turned out to be a false lead. there was a little flurry of activity when the c-130 flying over the waters of savannah indicated there may be something there after an initial report there was something found floating in the water. it was a styrofoam top to a cooler, had no relevance to the disappearance of these two boys. so the effort as we heard from the coast guard is still well under way. >> kerry sanders, thanks so much. let's turn now to msnbc's adam reese. adam the family has been out front and very confident in talking about the young boys and their skill level when it comes to growing up on the water and being able to survive at sea in a worst case scenario. what is the coast guard saying now about the extended search area? >> reporter: well, they're pressing on thomas but the coast guard, even though they're pressing on the search is
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getting more desperate by the hour. the family turning to facebook asking anybody with a plane in jacksonville south carolina georgia, to go out over the atlantic and look to see if they have anything related to the missing boys. as kerry said the coast guard is still pressing on with their search north of where the capsized boat was found off the coast of charleston south carolina. 39 searches over 36,000 square miles. just a massive area. but you must know that there is some bad weather expected this afternoon that could certainly hamper the search. the coast guard said this morning they will make a decision, that decision could come today, when to call off the search. certainly an agonizing decision for them thomas. >> it has to be. we wish nothing but the best as the coast guard continues the search. and certainly for the families of these two missing boys going into day five now. kerry sanders and adam reese, thank you for that. we shift our attention to officials in cincinnati expecting whether they're going
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to seek charges against a university of cincinnati police officer in connection with the shooting of an unarmed black man earlier this month. the funeral was just held for that man yesterday. let's go ahead and listen into the prosecutor joe deeters. >> and he wasn't. he was simply slowly -- you're going to see it. he was simply slowly rolling away. that's all he did. >> also cops don't get indicted for murder very often in the united states. >> that's true. and you all have covered me for a long time. and you know that i probably -- this office has probably reviewed upwards of 100 police shootings. and this is the first time that we thought this is -- this is without question a murder. yes, sherri. >> the officer's attorney told us that the officer was dragged. the incident report suggests
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that too. does the video show that at all? >> no he wasn't dragged. >> was he never knocked to the ground? >> no. he fell backwards after he shot him in the head. >> there have been some comments that perhaps this officer was in over his head making this traffic stop and panicked. is that in any way, shape or form what we see on the video and what you've seen? >> i think he lost his temper was he wasn't -- mr. debose wouldn't get out of his car. i think he lost his temper. when you see this you will not believe how quickly he pulls his gun and shoots him in the head. it's maybe a second. it's incredible. and so senseless. and again, i feel so sorry for his family. and i feel sorry for the community. this should not happen ever. >> what did the officer suggest
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happened in his statement to the police? >> he said he was dragged. >> what did you tell his family mr. debose's family and what was their reaction? >> they're in a very sensitive place right now because of their loss. i simply told them we were seeking a murder indictment for what happened. you know i think -- i believe we can make them available, julie, is that correct? >> they're going to let me know. >> if they want to talk to you all. >> have they seen the video? >> they have. >> are they in the building? >> i shared it -- yes. some of them. >> what was their -- >> it was horrible. you know it's -- you see your relative get shot in the head, it's horrible. >> is it going to be so horrible that the community or even outsiders will look past -- not
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see the murder? are you concerned at all about what this is going to possibly cause? >> well i think -- i think that because we acted as rapidly as we could we return a murder indictment against a police officer, and keep in mind this is not cincinnati this is the university of cincinnati. i would hope that people would, as they reflect on this entire situation, realize that we sought justice which is my job, and did the right thing. you know when you -- when you all see this video, and we're going to play it here for you in a second and we'll give you copies of it for your use, it's just senseless. it is. didn't have to happen. yeah tom. >> officer kidd i mean backed
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up the story in the report for an officer -- >> we're looking at that john. we're looking at that entire issue right now. we promised the family we would look at that. it is our belief that he was not dragged. i mean if you slow down this tape you see what happened. but it is -- it is a very very short period of time from when this car just starts slowly rolling that the gun is out and he's shot in the head. >> i know this is somewhat a side issue now maybe, but over the last week and a half so many calls to release this video early. would you just comment for us about why you insisted that this video not be released until now, until the investigation was done? >> it was an investigatory technique.
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we have a cop who was a target of an investigation and he was talking. and i didn't want the video to be on television and then have later witnesses and/or a targeted defendant couch his testimony around that. so i chose to do that and you al sued me so congratulations. and y'all lose too. >> hey, joe, the family's attorney yesterday had said to me that he didn't think there would be an indictment because getting an indictment on a cop is too hard and not enough time had passed for an investigation. i guess they don't know how it's done here. i guess they don't know how it's done here. can you respond to that? >> i think it was very important that we responded rapidly to this case especially after we saw the tape.
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look we don't mess around around here. we -- if we think something is awry, we go after it. and i assume the indictment has been reported now, julie, and a warrant for his arrest has gone out. hopefully they'll pick him up soon. >> that was my question. have you discussed is he going to turn himself in at a scheduled time? >> i'm treating him like a murderer. >> is he in custody right now? >> they're out to get him. we asked his lawyer to turn him in if he wants, but we're going to arrest him. >> as we speak? >> yes. >> you're still going to go forward with the supreme court, though, to try to get this idea of a body cam as a public record decided, correct? >> we'd like to. we think that the issue is probably going to be moot after today. but it would be nice to get some direction from the supreme court. >> you work with officers in many, many cases. you say you've prosecuted officers before. what should the officer have
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done in this case? you said he reacted just moments before the car started rolling away and the officer fires. what should he have done? >> he wasn't dealing with someone who was wanted for murder okay he was dealing with someone who didn't have a front license plate. i mean this is in the vernacular a pretty chicken crap stop all right. i could use harsher words. but nonetheless if he's starting to roll away just seriously let him go. i mean you don't have to shoot him in the head. and that's what happened. >> joe, how long is the videotape? >> the videotape is about -- i'm going to give you the entire video, so you'll have the entire video with you. i'm going to stop it after the shot takes place because there's a lot of stuff after that where the cops are talking about what happened and the defendant says, you know i got my arm stuck and
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my arm is hurt and all that. it's just nonsense. >> what's the message to the community or to other police officers, joe? >> i mean i -- look we're going to follow the law in this office, and we are going -- if the facts fit the law, we're going to pursue that no matter if you're a police officer or if you're pope francis. i don't care who you are. and we're going to go after you. >> is this murder in the first degree, second degree? >> there's not murder like that in ohio. no. this is a purposeful killing of another person. >> if convicted, what's the penalty, joe? >> life in prison. >> what can you tell us about the officer himself? have you seen any of his background or his records? >> nothing i'm going to share with you today. >> when you say he should not have been a police officer -- >> don't sue me over that, sherri. >> i'm sorry, what? >> i thought sherri was going to sue me for that answer. >> you stated earlier that he should not have been a police officer. are you referring to this
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incident or other aspects of his police career? >> i think you have to look at his entire body of work. and i don't know that uc could have found it out. and frankly, i told -- i told uc that cincinnati police ought to have a district six and make it the university of cincinnati because i just don't -- look the university -- i graduated from uc twice. it's a wonderful university. i love their president. but they're not cops. and we have a great police department in cincinnati. probably the best in ohio. and i talked to the chief about it today. i said you know you guys should be doing this stuff. and i think he's in agreement with it. the university does a great job educating people and, you know
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they made a lawyer out of me kinda, and that should be their job. being police officers is -- shouldn't be the role of this university. i don't think so. now, they can interview these guys and i'm sure they have great cops in the university police department. but they should be held to the same standard. and if they were with the cpd, they would be held to the same standard in training cpd officers are, and i think it would be -- i think it would be a good thing for the university. that's just my personal opinion. >> have you talked to the university, is he still employed there? >> he's on administrative paid leave. and hopefully soon he'll be on administrative paid leave in the justice center. >> his attorney the officer's attorney suggested that the political environment was propelling you toward an
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indictment. >> that's nonsense. that's just -- i'm not -- if i was driven by politics or media pressure, i would have released this tape a long time ago. i'm not. >> joe, when you saw this video, i assume you probably were the first to see it. >> not the first. >> when you saw it what went through your mind given your career and what you have seen over the years? >> i can't say it in front of the media. i was shocked. i was shocked. and i realized -- i realized what this was going to mean to our community. it really broke my heart, because i know it's just bad. it's just bad what he did and it shouldn't have happened.
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you'll see for yourself. >> did he talk initially? we were hearing reports that he took a while to come around and say he wanted to make a statement. when did he start talking? >> apparently and i'm not -- you'd have to check this sherri. apparently in their union contract the university police when they're involved in an incident are permitted up to 48 hours to talk to somebody. and i was not aware of that. i mean i would have sent him a grand jury subpoena and forced him to testify, because, you know -- but it did take some time. it did take some time. >> do you know when the board of trustees of uc actually saw the -- >> they have not seen it. >> they have not seen it? >> they have not. i asked the president and he was planning on showing it to the board. i asked him not to do that.
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because again, it would have become public. i wanted to keep it within law enforcement at all times. >> going back to whether the officer -- what the officer said. once he did talk did he say in that statement he was dragged or was that just a knee-jerk reaction at the beginning? did he stick to that story? >> i can't talk about his statements. okay. we're going to show this to you. it should take about probably ten minutes maybe at the most. right, peggy? okay. >> there's audio with that too? >> at the beginning there's no audio. then he turns on the audio switch. anybody have any questions for me yet? done? okay. >> again, if you're just joining us, we've been listening to joe deeters, the hamilton county prosecutor and they're about to
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show the body of ray tensing. he pulled over debose for not having a license plate and this was a simple stop. but the officer drew his weapon and shot him in the head killing him. what deeters is saz isying is this is without question a murder. this happened on july 19th and here is what happened during that police stop.
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so again, this is the initial body camera video of uc police officer ray tensing pulling over 43-year-old sam dubois. he was shot and killed july the 19th. the officer initially claimed that he had been dragged by dubois' vehicle which led to the shooting, however, deeters, who just gave an explanation of how this tape unfolds, gave a completely different explanation and told us we would all see it for ourselves. the family of sam dubois has also seen this video ahead of time. we do expect to hear from them. they just held the funeral for sam dubois yesterday. it was a very emotional service that they carried live on local cincinnati television. but here again, this is the police body camera video of the university of cincinnati police officer. again, that's not involved with the police department of cincinnati, it's a different police force, as joe deeters
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there was trying to explain. and i believe wes lowry with "the washington post" is with us. wes, explain the difference between what deeters was saying about the university of cincinnati as opposed to the cincinnati police. >> of course. and so this was a university of cincinnati police officer. an officer sworn to protect the campus rather than a cincinnati -- city of cincinnati police officer. so in this case this was somewhat a university employee armed with a gun in a patrol vehicle who enacted this traffic stop. now, this was a stop that took place not on campus but off of campus. it was a stop, again, for a missing front license plate. that is something that is within the power of a university police officer but not necessarily something that they are often doing. these aren't the stops that they are very often making. so that's some of the differentiation that he's trying to make there. >> wes, also the big distinction in the language that joe deeters was using, are you surprised by how forward he was in the way he calls tensing a murder saying
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i'm going to treat him as a murderer? >> certainly. he says he's going to treat him as a murderer. this is someone teakspeaking about a sworn police officer. he called the traffic stop that led to this death a chicken crap stop. called it so senseless and said when he first watched the video he can't even use the words that he first thought of. this is a prosecutor that's clearly very upset about whatever it is we're about to see in this body camera video showing officer ray tensing shooting in the head sam dubois. >> kendall coffey joins our conversation as well. kendall, explain as the questions were being asked of deeters about they are going to be treating this as a murder and whether or not it was first degree or not, it seems as if in the state of ohio that they don't have that type of differentiation between their charges? >> yeah they don't distinguish, as many states do between so-called first-degree murder and second-degree murder. if it is a purposeful killing of
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a human being, there's no defense such as justifiable use of force, it's a murder. and i think it's to the prosecutor's credit that he's not giving any special treatment, any special favor. he's made his determination and he sees a murder and that's how he's going to treat this case. >> all right. so we know that the family again has seen the video itself. sam dubois was pulled over for not having a front license plate. here we see the officer getting out of his car. there was talk of the fact that dubois kind of rolled away. >> what's that?
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okay. that's not where the front plate is supposed to go. you don't have to reach for it. that's okay. do you have a license on you? [ indistinguishable ] >> okay. do you have a license on him? okay. >> i've got my -- you can run my name. >> so do you not have your license on you? i'm asking you a direct question. do you have your license on you? >> i thought i did. why did you pull me over for? >> again, the front tag. >> but it's not illegal to have a front tag in cincinnati. >> actually it is. i'm going to ask you again, do you have a license on you? >> i have a license. you can run my name. >> okay.
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but it's not on you then? >> i don't seem to have it on me. >> be straight up with me. are you suspended? >> no i'm not suspended. >> then why don't you have your license on you? >> i just don't. i'm sorry, sir. well, i'm trying to figure out if you have a license or not. >> i didn't even do nothing. >> go ahead and take your seat belt off. >> stop, stop! >> so we're watching there a confusing situation of this traffic stop for sam dubose 43 years old, pulled over on july the 19th. you can hear the interaction
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there with police officer ray tensing asking for the license of dubose. he said he didn't have his license on him. we saw him reaching into the glove box, looking for registration, maybe proof of insurance. that part was a little inaudible for me to hear but i think the officer said don't worry about it you don't have to look in there any longer. there was one bottle of gin it looked like that was pulled out of the vehicle and then placed on top of the car by the officer. the officer then again asks about having a license. it seems as if he tells dubose to take his seat belt off and then tries to open his door to get him out of the vehicle. where dubose resists that interaction. and then things get a little fuzzy there. i think we'll have the prosecutors coming back to talk more about that because they seemed to indicate there was a much clearer picture of what happened after tensing drew his weapon. wes, let me go back to you, wes
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lowry from "the washington post." i know you've been covering this extensively. how is this body camera footage gelling with what deeters had told us? to me i'm not seeing the pivotal part that he told us we were going to see. >> i'm not either. and again, this is the first view. we'll obviously get this video in our own hands to watch and analyze a little deeper but again what the officer said what officer tensing claimed happened was that he -- initially he had a few different stories. he was caught in the vehicle or being dragged by the vehicle. i didn't see that there. >> so let's go back. deeters is saying here when you see him accelerate the car he was dead already. let's listen in. >> you moved up the release to the video today. initially it was yesterday. >> yesterday? >> or tomorrow. >> we got done. we got done with the grand jury. >> is that the end of the video
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or are you not showing us something? >> no, you'll have it all. >> so it's not quite over? >> right. they just -- he -- the other cops are asking what happened you know, and things like that and he said he got his arm stuck in the steering wheel. you just have to watch it. >> do you think this officer intentionally tried to mislead investigators as to what actually happened? >> yeah. yes. i think he was making an excuse for a purposeful killing of another person. that's what i think. >> even with the body cam video? >> i'm not saying he's smart. i'm just saying what i think he did. >> so was there collusion with other officers? >> i don't think so. we're looking at that tom. we're going to -- the family raised that issue with us today and we're going to look at that. >> you talked about the idea that uc police should become cincinnati police district six. how hard do you plan to push for that? >> i've talked to the chief, i
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talked to the mayor, and i plan on talking to the university president. i've talked to board members at the university. i just don't think a university should be in the policing business. i just don't think so. they got rid of them at university hospital already. that's over with. i think cpd should be doing the entire campus. >> after the last lawsuit with the wrongful death lawsuit of a young man on campus they got rid of tasers. would tasers have helped in this situation or is that just speculation? >> that's just speculation. tasers are a very effective method to subdue violent people. i mean this guy didn't deserve to be tased and he certainly didn't deserve to be shot in the head. >> did officer tensing turn the body cam video on himself? >> yes, he did. >> right as he got out of the car? >> well as he was driving, it
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was on. >> what are the reasons for uc police being pulled back onto campus was that they're not trained to a collaborative but they're not knowledgeable enough of urban policing. is this an urban policing situation or just a bad policing situation? >> it's just bad police. i mean it's just -- look every -- every occupation has people that shouldn't be doing it. you probably know it in your own line of work. and -- >> where do they wear their body cams? >> i believe it's right here in the middle. >> in the middle? >> yeah. >> and do you feel like -- how much would you say that this video helped the investigation into this? >> it was invaluable. >> what if there hadn't been video? he said he was dragged, that could have been -- >> exactly. >> police right now of pursuing a grant to purchase body cams.
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>> i think it's a good idea. i think it's a good idea for police to wear that because, you know nine times out of ten it clears them of wrongdoing. and in this case, obviously it led to an indictment for murder. >> do you know if it's common for universities to have their own police? >> i think a lot of them do. a lot of them do. you know it's a culture of wanting to control your environment all the time. i was on uc's board of trustees and this issue never came up. but clearly there is a -- there is an issue just off campus with violent crimes. and that's why they were going -- you know bringing some of their university police down in those neighborhoods. i just think cpd would be better suited to do this than university police.
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i mean when you lead -- when you lead to a murder like this a shooting in the head where your stop was no front license plate? i mean that -- that's crazy. i mean that is just -- and if you see this family how they are suffering from this it's -- it's ridiculous that this happened. >> did they see this feed? >> yes. they say it. >> i'm going to have to slow it down. can you describe when exactly the shot -- >> do you know peggy? >> around three minutes is where it started. >> okay. >> if you're thinking about
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sending your kid to uc and you wonder if that's who's protecting my child, i think it could be -- have an impact on -- >> well could you imagine the outrage you would have if this was your kid or this was your brother? over a stop like this? and he didn't do anything violent towards the officer. he wasn't dragging him. and he pulled out his gun and intentionally shot him in the head. >> do you feel like this is a training issue? this is something that could happen -- cincinnati police have far more training than -- >> i don't know the training levels at all. i know how cpd is. i know -- and i've traveled this state a lot, unfortunately. the level of professionalism and
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cincinnati police are just really really good. it's a great department. if you have access to something like that like the university would, i would take full advantage of it. >> speak about police presence currently around the university. everybody has been so worried and nervous about what you were going to say 30 minutes ago. do you have a message to the community or to people that might be feeling violent? >> well the family -- and i will say this. i have paid attention to some of the protests about this. it didn't affect my decision in any fashion. but everyone seems to have behaved themselves and the family has spoken out that any protests should be peaceful. they reiterated that to me again today. and that's the way it should be. people should have a right to
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speak out. but if you start breaking things and burning things hopefully the cincinnati police and the mayor will come down hard on them. >> did race play a part in this? did the investigators look at that? >> you know, i don't know if it did or not. there's no evidence of it. but, you know, as we mentioned when we indicted the people that were at fountain square you know, there was no evidence of ethnic intimidation there. but those are misdemeanors. i mean this guy is facing life in prison. i couldn't care what his motivation was i just know he intentionally killed somebody. >> joe, it's a two-count indictment with voluntary manslaughter? >> we backed it up. we backed up the murder charge with a voluntary manslaughter. it's a lesser included offense to murder. and what happens, jeff is
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sometimes if you get a goofy judge, they say oh you just charged them with murder. i'm not going to give a lesser included instruction. so we always back them up just in case the judge won't let us argue a lesser included offense. >> joe, i know you said that a warrant has been issued for him. his attorney make any arrangements that he will turn himself in here? >> i don't know. i just -- i told our investigators to find him. okay. thank you. okay. so we've been listening to joe deeters here the hamilton county prosecutor that is dealing with the case that is now moving forward after the grand jury returned a murder indictment against the university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing. this is the body camera video that has just been released and you can see here that the officer is trying to open the door of the vehicle of sam dubose. we have chosen out of an
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abundance of caution not to demonstrate the entire video that joe deeters explains that tensing pulls his weapon and shoots dubose in the head. so this is an edited version of that as not to be overly graphic. but joe deeters pretty much explains exactly how this case has gone forward and he feels that tensing is a murderer that was acting outside of the jurisdiction of the university of cincinnati. and again, this is a big distinction to make between the cincinnati police department and the officers who were supposed to patrol the university of cincinnati. wes lowry with "the washington post" is with me kendall coffey, a former federal prosecutor is with me as well. wes, let me start with you. again, out of an abundance of caution and respect for our audience, we're not showing the full image. earlier we had blurred it out on purpose because this was running live out of this press conference in cincinnati and we
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didn't know what we were going to be giving out to the viewers unedited so we took that approach ourselves so i just want everybody to know that that was us that blurred it out. but this demonstrates from deeter's perspective as well as from the grand jury's perspective that this is murder. >> exactly. and again, he spoke with very strong words. he called this officer, we're treating him like a murderer. he said this traffic stop for a missing front license plate is chicken crap. this is very strong language. deeter also repeatedly calling for the university of cincinnati essentially to disband its police department, saying they should rely on the city of cincinnati to police itself. many universities have their own police departments, sworn officers who have weapons and policing powers. and so again, this is a prosecutor who's called this senseless, he's called it ridiculous. he says he's going after this police officer for murder. he said that this man, sam dubose should not be dead. >> and for everybody that just -- and here's a longer
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frozen clip right there. we can see the interaction, the reference to the actual murder of sam dubose. the exchange went back and forth in the fact that dubose got pulled over for not having a front license plate. he was asked for a license and registration. he had reached into his glove box to provide such type of registration. the officer told him don't worry about that. then he did not have a license to provide but said run my name. the officer did pull out a bottle of gin from the vehicle and placed it on top of the car. but woe hearde heard from deeters that this is nothing that warranted a response like this from a police officer for pulling somebody over for not having their front license plate on the vehicle. and he also said that the officer intentionally in answering a reporter's question that the officer intentionally tried to mislead the investigation. the people that were trying to investigate this even though he
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was wearing a body camera. so it's a very good thing that there is the video that actually proves exactly what happened. and the family has also asked whether or not there is a collusion issue of other officers being involved with trying to help tensing get his story straight about being dragged and about fearing for his own life. kendall, let me ask you, when it comes to a situation like this how tough -- how tough of a bar is it to not just indict but now to prosecute for intentionally murdering sam dubose and getting potentially life in prison? >> well it's always tougher, i think, prosecuting police officers unless you've got absolutely overwhelming evidence and some kind of a corrupt motive. here there's no corrupt motive. you simply have got an officer, as described by the prosecutor on a traffic stop who does
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something that is far outside of proper procedure or the law, which is to in effect use lethal force on apparently a fleeing suspect, if he was fleeing, in the context of a traffic stop. people actually can flee police officers and if they're not dangerous and if they haven't committed some kind of serious felony, as the prosecutor said you let them go you don't kill them. we recall the walter scott case where there was, once again, video reflecting that an officer shot somebody who was leaving in the back. same kind of outcome there. that's also charged as a homicide. so i think it's evident that while these are tough cases and while the grand jury can react on probable cause to get a jury conviction to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt where you've got it on video, you've got a real case. >> yeah when you look at motive, obviously this is a complete overreaction to what is a disproportionate response of a
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situation. and some people might say the motive is simply unadulterated racism because of what took place here. i mean not having a front license plate, this being the outcome. anybody's kid could get pulled over for this, not having a front license plate or not having your license on you. i mean any one of us could walk out of the house and forget our wallet. this is not the outcome that many people most americans, would want to see. this video, without it i think we'd have a much different story coming out of the university of cincinnati police department, from ray tensing, from his testimony, from the police officers that were also involved in this and i'm sure the dubose family, who just buried sam yesterday, are very grateful for this body camera video and the fact that they have an ally in the prosecutor joe deeters, here, who seems to be overwhelmingly willing to talk
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sensibly about what we just witnessed here which is bad police. so we are going to have a 2:00 p.m. press conference coming up from the cincinnati mayor. he's going to be joined by the police chief jeffrey blackwell. also the university of cincinnati president and the city manager, harry black, will be speaking about this case. again, university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing indicted on murder in the july 19th shooting death of 43-year-old sam dubose. we'll be back with more after this. ♪ they lived. ♪ they lived. ♪ they lived. ♪ (dad) we lived... thanks to our subaru. ♪ (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru.
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deflategate. >> i'll stand by my previous statement, that i've never been involved in any wrongdoing any unlawful activity and any misappropriation of federal funds. >> okay. saying he's never been involved with wrongdoing. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams following this story from our bureau in d.c. pete, dig into the indictment. again, 29 counts coming forward. explain what the cash involved in here is alleged to be tied to. >> reporter: well, it starts according to the federal government, with his unsuccessful run for mayor of philadelphia in 2007. they say that a wealthy supporter gave his campaign a million dollars, and to try to repay that they say the congressman and these others used federal grant money and charitable contributions that were given to a nonprofit that the congressman had set up used that money improperly to repay this wealthy donor. tried to arrange for a federal grant of political money to a political consultant to repay part of his debt used money
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from the political campaign to pay off the student loan debt of his son. and also the government says the congressman took an $18,000 bribe to try to help a lobbyist get an ambassadorship or a federal job. these are among the complaints or the charges in this interlocking indictment, very complicated series of transactions here, that the federal government says it monitored involving the congressman, his congressional staff director in the district, a lobbyist and two others. >> so again, these are in reference to the associates involved here. i'm just hearing mathat minority leader nancy pelosi is not going to be calling for the resignation of chaka fattah just based on the fact that he has been indicted on this so they're going to let this play out a little bit further. >> reporter: what she has said is it's a shame, she says and she notes that he has agreed to step down from his position as the ranking democrat on the
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house subs appropriations committee. >> and also making reference to luke russert about this not being deflategate, trying to use a little irony or sarcasm there to play it all down. the seriousness of the charges at least alleged for this point. pete, thanks so much. go ahead peelt.te. >> reporter: i heard that statement too. i think it may be ambiguous. it may be what he meant was it isn't deflategate in the sense we know what the charges are, we have it all laid out now and we can comment on it. >> pete williams pete as always, thank you, sir. so when we come back we've got a third breaking story this hour. it has to do with that. that is plane wreckage. it has washed up off the coast of eastern africa. but what plane is it supposed to be from? ♪ turn around ♪ ♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around, barry ♪ ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ [ female
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let's get you back to cincinnati and the breaking news we had off the top of the hour and that's the indictment of
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university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing and the murder of sam dubose back on july 19th. this is mark 0 mara representing the deubose. >> are you surprised? >> i am. i didn't see the video, nobody saw the video, it's easy to sit back and say, you know you look at that three-page police report and, quite honestly at mr. dieters said, that was self serving, wasn't it? you can't look at the video and say that that police report follows the video. it doesn't. it contradicts it. so my concern having done this for a long long time is just that. you lookt at police reports and they can on occasion be self serving. this one is. if there wasn't a video available, i don't believe he would have had an indictment. one officer would have said what he said in the report and followed up with it.
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the other officer who seemed to say maybe he saw the dragging, maybe he was just told about the dragging, all of a sudden becomes a corroborating witness but now that we have a video we don't have that problem. so if you had asked me the question after i saw the video i would have said without question an indictment. mr. dieters had that opportunity before i did and did what i think he did with the grand jury because of the information he gathered. >> what do saydoes that say to you of policing in america? >> i truly believe that we are seeing the crisis now. but that it has existed for a long time. you ask anyone who -- anyone in the black community and they know what's existed is bias for decades. i have done this for 30 years and my practice is skewed in favor of young black males in the system. why? because they're brought into the
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system more. so yes. we are seeing a crisis. if there's sa silver lining to what's been happening for a few years beginning with all the cases, three, four years ago that have really started this conversation or maintained this conversation, it is that we are finally talking about it and i do think that body cameras should be mandatory with law enforcement because, unfortunately, when you have cops who may not be well enough trained, may not be well enough paid and put a gun on their hip and they go do one of the most difficult jobs we ask them to do, police ourselves from each other and do it for a year or two or a decade you're getting insensitive and the problem with it is then this can happen. i do think we have a crisis but we also have a great opportunity. yeah? >> i think there was a second officer for semi corroborating the story? do you think there was intentional cover-up or just you're my fellow officer, you say so fine?
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or something else? >> i look forward to the office and whoever else looking into why the officer seemed to have said to what he said. i've never seen a statement by officer number two saying i saw dragging and you and i read the report and when i read that report it said to me officer number two saw the dragging. so, and he did not. now, when he was put to task in the sworn testimony, did he change or modify that story? once he realized there was a video which was going to contra indicate what he said? i don't know. we have to stop having officers who think that it's better to cover another officer than to tell the truth. >> when you looked at the video, i guess i'm looking at it thinking what point could he possibly felt afraid for his life. >> i've seen -- i've probably
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seen, i don't know 500 videos of events. i don't know what it is. i have reviewed police -- it's what i do. when i looked at that video, the first time and i knew what i expected to happen. i expected there to be a tussle. i expected an escalation of the event. right? i expected that there was going to be some explanation for why somebody took out a gun and shot. and i'm watching it waiting. the shot happened and the car took off. and i actually for a slight second thought, okay the shot's coming. the car's going to stop. he's going to catch up to the car. that's where the tussle -- and then i realized the shot had already happened. i'm not trying to dramatize it. when that shot happened for absolutely no reason under the law as i know it i know when you're supposed to use deadly force. you're supposed to use it with reasonable fear of great bodily injury.
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there wasn't an aggravation. wasn't an increase in the situation. certainly not by sam. it was horrific to see that anyone could think now i can use a gun. so -- >> which must make it harder for -- harder for the family than knowing almost. >> well and i know the mom wants to come up maybe for a moment and -- >> can we ask you -- >> sure. >> what do you know about officer tensing at this point? anything more than we have already heard? >> not very much except i know he's going to tell us that something was going on in his head unrelated to sam and helped inform why he did what he did because -- >> do you think that? >> i believe that. he's going to have to come up with some explanation for how he thought it was appropriate to do what he did by taking out a gun to begin with and instead of letting that car leave or do whatever. and then firing it. if he has any training we have
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to presume he has some he is trained on how not to use a gun before using a gun. that's what cops are trained to do. only to use it under the most necessary circumstances. >> do you think it was -- do you think it was racially motivated? what is your read? >> i don't think that officer tensing got up that morning deciding to kill a black guy. but we know that the reason why young black males or blacks in the criminal justice system more than they should be because there are these almost subtle unspoken biases that exist between all of us. we all make instantaneous decisions about each other. unfortunately, it seems we are still making negative decisions about blacks and that seems to be one of the explanations to why it shows up in more arrests. so active? no. passive? probably.
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if you want to lead in prayer for do whatever you would like to do. >> yes. when i -- when my son, the day that my son -- that i heard my son was killed and i came forth and so many people were speaking -- it was a gentleman speaking of my son and i knew that gentleman knew my son. the way he spoke of him, i knew he knew him. and i -- i felt the need to go up there and just hug him. and when i came forth, i brought the lord with me. he goes with me everywhere that
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i go. and i said, the lord raine the th. he is clothed with majesty ste. the lord is clothed with strength. the world also established that it cannot be moved. by throne is established of old. thou art from everlasting. the floods have lifted up oh lord. the floods have lifted up their voice. the floods have lift up their ways. the lord on high is mightier than the noise of many waters. yea, then a mighty waves of the sea. thy testimonies are very sure. holiness becomes thine house oh lord forever. bless the lord. and all that you do because,
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see, you get to know god, you got something. god is almighty. and i'm so thankful that -- that everything was uncovered because i've been a servant of the lord for as long as i've been living on earth. i've been loving the lord. and i knew i know the lord. and i know the wrath of god. also, i know the love of god. so i just thank god that everything is being revealed. i knew that he loved my child. i knew that this was not going to be uncovered. and i prayed that everybody out there, all the soldiers who was out there marching with me for the justice for my son, i thank
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you. and i hope that you continue to do this. not just for my son, but for many others because -- and i'm ready to join the battlefield because my heart go out for so many that there's been unjust. but it's only y'all got to realize that god is in the forehead. god is god. we're just soldiers. he fight the battle. let him fight this battle. and just be thankful. i want everybody just lift up their heads in prayer and thank god because this one did not go unsolved. and hidden. so thank -- just lift up your heads and thank god and give him the glory and we're going to continue to fight together in
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god, with god. because he -- he -- we're just the soldiers. we'll continue to lift him up and i think more and more will be revealed and all these people who's going out here these wicked people we already got the victory. we just got to know that. and thank everyone for doing all that they've done. >> would you share with us your reaction to prosecutor dieters telling you today that there is a grand jury indictment and showing the video? because you and your family have been for the last nine or ten days calling for release of that video and calling for the indictment. >> yes. i didn't -- i mean what i thought was it was going to be covered up. i heard many stories and
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everything. but like i say, i trust god. and i knew that it was going to be all right. i knew that if this man, you know, went free, and nothing was done to him, it was because he was a free -- he was really a righteous man and didn't do nothing but i knew that my son was a righteous man. i knew what my son, he had the same spirit that dwells in me dwells in him. that's all he was fed. so so if my son is righteous and he get killed somebody had to be wicked here. this is what -- and i wanted to bring it to the front. i wanted to take -- with this i can rest because i knew it was something unjust done beforehand and i thank everybody who came
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forward. with the information. i thought it should have you know i thought the person should have been locked up on day one. he should have never been released. after they saw the film. why is he still walking the streets? because it was murder. >> ma'am, maybe -- i'm not talking necessarily the eyes of the criminal justice system but you're obviously a person of great faith. did you see in your heart to forgive this person this officer whether he's convicted or snot. >> if he asks forgiveness, oh yeah. i can forgive him. i can forgive anybody. god forgave us. but god -- god already -- see, i didn't even think nothing about him getting convicted here because, see, i was told that this man was released and nobody
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could find him. but he can't hide from god. see? god is almighty. so, i wasn't worried about that neither. >> you have said yesterday that -- wanted to see the video. couldn't have peace or sleep until you knew what happened. >> yes. >> after seeing that does it give you peace? >> seeing that video let me know that my son did absolutely nothing. not nothing. nothing to even provoke this man. see, my son was -- he likes -- he loved to get a laugh. you know? and i thought, well maybe this man, he tried to get a laugh. make this man, you know? just put a different spin on the situation. so he always had a joyful spirit. so i said well maybe sam was playing with him and he took it the wrong way. and then that could have been
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you know mistaken. and but i realized that this wasn't even the case. that wasn't even the case. you know? >> isn't it hard to make sense of it when you look at that video? >> no. because it's wicked in this world. terrible. i mean but god is bringing it to the light. it's through the people that love the lord and serve him. they're going to find this wickedness. he's going to bring it out. he said what's done in the dark is going to come to the light. this one was just one person he knew was wicked. and he had -- and he was going to bring this man to the light. >> you were talking about joining the battlefield and marching with the people. >> for people who -- who they've
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been killed by cops by -- >> by anyone. >> yeah. but sure but no no no. i'm focusing on cops is because so many people did come out and said -- >> unfortunately we lost the feed there. we were listening to audrey dubose the mother of sam dubose and lost on july 19th allegedly murdered by a university of cincinnati police officer named ray tensing. now, we're just learning earlier in the 1:00 hour that tensing is facing a murder indictment. the grand jury came back. we heard from the hamilton county prosecutor that he is going to go after justice in this and that they feel they did the right thing and treat tensing as a murderer abe based on the fact that the university of cincinnati police officer wearing body camera video and we have that video and let me know if we have cued it up to show
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everybody what the extent of what the grand jury had to work with here. and this was the pull-over of sam dubose on july 19th. the police officer said he didn't have a front license plate. he asked him for a license and registration. he reached into the glove box, dubose looking for the registration and then waved off by the cop. he didn't have a license to give but he said please run my name. i do have a license. the cop then tried to get him out of the vehicle. and that's when we see tensing draw his weapon in his right hand and shoot sam dubose in the head. working on getting you the full tape. i know there are other places out there that have it. we live in the digital age. i see your tweetds. i understand what you're trying to tell me. we are working on getting it to you. take it from me from what i have
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seen, you can see the firearm is drawn. he shoots dubose in the head. let's go back the mom audrey dubose. we have the signal back. let's go. >> unprovoked. senseless. >> i want to make sure -- the family is and all along has been saying don't do anything violent in sam -- sam wouldn't want that. >> right. >> can you tell us, is that still your message? what is it? >> definitely our message. sam was peaceful. he lived peaceful. you know? and in his death, we want to remain peaceful. you know? >> praise god. >> like my mom said let god fight the battle. you know? i'm a lifetime cincinnatian. i remember 2001. you know? we don't want none of that. that shouldn't happen. that's bad. >> murder indictments are unusual against cops. in america. you're looking at ferguson and
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new york and cleveland. but it's happened here for your brother. what does that mean to the family? >> well it means that you know, sam had a higher purpose. this was god. this was god all the way from beginning to end. he had a higher purpose to serve. it's bigger than just him being a great brother, great son. he had a purpose for the whole country. the whole world, everybody can see these affects, this changes and how cincinnati handles things properly. >> go ahead. >> great. thanks very much. >> thank you all very much. >> first name? >> brother. >> spell your name. >> aubry? >> aubry. >> aubry. >> aubry? >> yes. >> audrey your mom?
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>> kleshawn. dubose. >> so we're listening to aubry dubose talk about his brother, sam. mark o'mara representing the family and i believe one of the dubose cousins or sisters coming up the speak now. >> you asked the question about what does it mean that sam would be in this with all of the other incidents. first of all, if it were not for that video camera sam would be no different than all of the other incidents because the second officer was ready to corroborate every lie that the first officer said in the report. so i just want to be very clear we feel for a lot of families out there and i wasn't even really big on video cams but every day i'll be marching for video cams because my brother was being prosecuted for trying to kill a police officer. he dragged him.
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he assaulted him. he gave him alcohol when there was never an open container of alcohol. he was everything violent because he had children. and a wii ticket a charge. that man shot my brother dead. this would be the same if it were not for that video camera and would be the same i guess if it wasn't for this prosecutor and our attorneys who worked diligently to say this wasn't be the same. i don't know what other people are doing or other prosecutors are doing but i think the video camera's a big reason for why this is different. >> are you satisfied with the this has turned out and so much said about the police video, release the videos. >> we had -- we knew the video was going to vindicate our brother. when you know somebody you know somebody. so, we knew the video was going to -- there wasn't like oh
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well, maybe could have should have. we knew the video was going to vindicate our brother. my brother is one year younger than me. i've known him his whole life and known him to never, ever run from a police officer. his record proves he has no problem being arrested. i am appalled every time when i see what i'm reading about my brother. i've been reading everything you know he's just one other thug in the neighborhood. i don't care if he was a thug in the neighborhood. he didn't have a gun. he didn't do anything to that officer. no one deserves this. so i'm angry but i'm as pleased as i could be that we're actually going to get some kind of justice for sam. but i don't think we would be getting it to get back to that. i don't think we would without the camera because they were ready to have two police
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officers say that sam dragged -- i mean you have to understand, my brother got murdered on sunday night and at 12:15 i got a call from my other brother to tell me that he was murdered. and when i got off the floor three and a half hours later i started researching everything i could about this case because i knew when he said he was shot in the head by a police officer that didn't register for me unless the police officer just killed him. now, i knew i was never going to be able to prove that but i knew that's what had to have happened. i'm sure other families know that. they don't have a video camera or a good enough attorney. which i thank god for. i don't know. maybe there's not prosecutor that cares enough or a grand jury hallelujah, to look at the case and say let's really look at this case. i think there's enough to prosecute without the video camera.
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i think that. but i just think it would have been much more difficult because people don't listen. they look at stereotypes and my brother was about to be one other stereotype and that's not going to happen. >> praise god. >> thank you. >> hmm? >> is there anything -- okay? thank you. >> all right. so we have been listening there to the family of sam dubose. we heard from his mom, his brother and his sister. all talking about the fact that they were grateful to prosecutors and how this has played out after the murder of their brother on july the 19th. he was pulled over for routine traffic stop for not having a front license plate according to officer ray tensing. he is a university of cincinnati police officer who was working outside of the jurisdiction when he pulled over the car of that sam dubose was driving.
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there's body camera video and released by the hamilton county prosecutor's office and longer portion of the exchange. let's listen. >> actually i'm going to ask you again. you have a license? >> i have a license. you can run my name. >> okay. is that not on you then? >> i don't seem to have it on me. >> be straight up with me. are you suspended? >> no. >> why don't you have your license on you? >> i just don't. i'm sorry, sir. honestly. it's in the house. >> okay. where do you stay at? down here? until i can figure out if you have a license, take your seat belt off. >> i don't -- >> go ahead and take your seat belt off. >> okay. he tries to open the car door. in the right arm he draws his weapon. and fires. that's according to joe deeters the prosecutor in this and says
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at that moment dubose was murdered. shot in the head. the grand jury is the one that came back with the indictment and it's just been handed to me that officer tensing turned himself in per tiffany hardy, cincinnati police officer tensing turned himself in to the hamilton county sheriff's office and an arraignment for officer tensing tomorrow morning. let's check on the exact time for that. i think it's 10:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. that they're going to have his first arraignment. but his attorney who spoke out in advance of the tape being released said quote, i keep reading that people saying the shooting is bad, a bad shooting. i don't know what to expect but i wouldn't describe what i have seen that way. based on the video i believe that my clibt was legitimately in fear of his life when he fired his weapon and i believe that the video will bear that out. now, one thing that we heard from joe deeters, the hamilton
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county prosecutor he said we have done the right thing. he said that the officer tried to intentionally mislead the investigation of exactly what happened here and they will be looking into whether or not there was any collusion or potential collusion from other officers. we heard there from the sister of sam dubose talking about the fact that she's glad that this video exists because she was worried that there would be people banding together to say that her brother was the one who dragged the police officer or tried to hurt the police officer. this was joe deeters in the 1:00 hour. take a listen. >> this is without question a murder. i think he lost his temper because he wasn't -- you know mr. dubose wouldn't get out of his car. i think he lost his temper. when you see this you will not believe how quickly he pulls his
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gun and shoots him in the head. it's maybe a second. it's incredible. he wasn't dealing with someone who was wanted for murder okay? he didn't have a front license plate. i mean this is -- in the vernacular a pretty chicken crap stop. >> so listening to joe deters earlier in the hour we are expecting an official press conference at 2:00 p.m. from the cincinnati mayor and the police chief jeffrey blackwell. university of cincinnati president and city manager harry black. just joining us we have been following the news coverage over the last hour and 20 minutes where the grand jury there in cincinnati came back with a murder indictment against university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing. this was all based on body camera footage that was turned over during the investigation that shows tensing's initial
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stop of sam dubose. sam dubose driving a vehicle that didn't have a front license plate on it engaging dubose behind the wheel of the vehicle asking for his license and registration. dubose says he doesn't have the license on him at that time asks him to run his name. the officer doesn't go back to the vehicle and do that. however, he does try to have dubose exit the vehicle and see in the video the officer drawing the firearm and fires once and fatally shooting dubose in the head. former federal prosecutor kendall coffey joins me now. we have a lot of insight certainly from joe deters on this but looking at the history of cincinnati and i think the brother abreu alluded to this in talking about what happened in 2001, let me just remind our viewers what happened in cincinnati in 2001 they had riots, looting and protests after a police officer shot and killed an unarmed black man
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timothy thomas. at that time the justice department launched a review of cincinnati police. the university of cincinnati closed down early wednesday canceling classes at the main medical campuses in preparation for the announcement and abundance of caution of what and how people would react. but the tape really tells the tale here doesn't it kendall? >> it really does. and it also tells us in an ironic way the tale that perhaps so many shootings or uses of excessive force have gone on over the years and simply haven't been documented. without a videotape, these kind of cases are very very difficult to prove. and so the larger question for many others we had a tragedy. we have very fast prosecution action. but what about the future? i think a lot of that is going to be defined on how much momentum is there now to require body cameras taping across the board in police departments in
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every part of the country? this isn't just a cincinnati problem as we know all too sadly. that is national problem. >> yeah. this is for some of the viewers interested and they're tweeting me mark o'mara representing the dubose family talking about his legal background a lot of people really know him as representing george zimmerman and getting him off in the murder of trayvon martin. so this is a difficult way getting to see mark o'mara representing the dubose family in all of this but i think in listening to the mom audrey dubose, talk about this, it seems that they're relying a lot on faith but, kendall, seems they have a good advocate in joe deters. >> deft or a victim, you want a strong advocate. this family has bun. navigating the process as a victim has its own challenges and you want to have that
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emphasis to make sure that the prosecution moves promptly correctly and to the full accountability. and this prosecutor seemed ready to do that from day one and doesn't hurt to have a strong advocate in your corner as a victim. >> thinking about the differences between cincinnati policing there's the cincinnati police force and then this police force dedicated to the university of cincinnati and its campus campus, they are tasked with patrolling it. this happened off site so that would be potentially out of the jurisdiction of this police officer. how does that change any of the narrative or any of the work that goes in to prosecuting in this case? because is he still on the clock as a police officer? even though he's out of a jurisdiction of the campus? >> there was an agreement of two police departments, the cincinnati police department and campus police department allowing campus police to operate in an area near the university. that agreement is obviously not
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surprisingly been suspended but it doesn't present the larger question of training and the prosecutor alluded to a couple times and along with the importance of video cameras, what about training? so the first impulse of an officer not to use the maximum force but to find a way to deescalate? maybe there needs to be more effective training. >> hearing the fact it wasn't a situation where an officer based on the video should have even used a taser. so now i want to let our viewers know, we are going to xla the extended clip of what happened with that police stop and if we could go ahead and ditch the breaking news banner? yes. so the viewers can see this in full. this is the complete unedited version that shows the police officer drawing his weapon and shooting at sam dubose. >> okay. actually, it is. i'm going to ask you again, do you have a license on your you?
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>> i have a license. you can run my name. >> okay. is that not on you then? >> i don't seem to have it on me. >> be straight up with me. are you suspended? >> no. >> why don't you have your license on you? >> i just don't. i'm sorry, sir. honestly i'm going to the house. >> okay. where do you stay at? down here? >>. [ inaudible ] >> take your seat belt off. >> no. >> take your seat belt off. >> stop! stop! >> gunshot! i did! [ inaudible ] i'm on it!
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>> so that is the full video re released today by the hamilton county's prosecutor's office after the murder indictment came back for police officer ray tensing. ray tensing turned himself over to authorities for allegedly shooting and murdering sam dubose. he's going to have an arraignment coming up tomorrow morning. we heard that the family was very grateful of the police body camera video. but as you saw in the last few frames there, after the car comes to rest and i think it came to rest against an electric pole or telephone pole another officer comes into frame from the right-hand side of your familiar screen. the family was worried of a backup story of officers to feed the narrative that tensing trying to give that he was in fear of his life dragged by the vehicle. i think in the exchange there all of our viewers can see exactly what was asked of sam dubose, the exchange back and
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forth and then the officer tensing trying to open the car to get dubose out of the car. now, again, this is something that the prosecutor's office is going after vigorously. also talking about the fact that they feel that the officer intentionally tried to mislead investigators in describing the scene of what happened here just to give you the distinction, this is different from the cincinnati police force. this is a person who is hired at the university of cincinnati and is on their police force. they are armed, obviously, with a service weapon that we see used in the video there. but ray tensing has been indicted on a murder charge and turned himself over to authorities. we are still expecting a press conference coming up from the cincinnati mayor along with the police chief, the university of cincinnati president as well as the city manager. the background on this it all
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goes back to july 19th when officer tensing spotted sam dubose driving without a front license plate. near the university campus. it wasn't technically within the defined jurisdiction of the university campus. and the mom who is audrey dubose spoke just a short time ago. take a listen. >> i just thank god that everything is being revealed. i knew that he loved my child. i knew that this was not going to be uncovered. and i prayed that everybody out there, all the soldiers who was out there marching with me for the justice for my son, i thank you and i hope that you continue to do this not just for my son, but for many others because --
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aen'm ready to join the battlefield. >> ready to join the battlefield. hearing from the mom of 43-year-old sam dubose. this is an incredible couple of days for the dubose family. it was just yesterday that they held a funeral services for sam and laid him to rest. they say that his -- sam is remembered as someone who made others laugh. the mom also talked about her son's charm during the press conference where we just heard from her there. thinking that maybe at first she thought that sam was kind of being playful with the police officer. but the video in and of itself describes the interaction between officer tensing and sam dubose behind the wheel of that vehicle. one thing to point out, as well earlier in the video he was pulled over for not having a front license plate and also officer tensing did find a bottle of gin in the vehicle and
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pulled it out of the car. in the video, we also hear the exchange back and forth about a license. dubose did not have his license on him. he asked the police officer to run his name. saying that his license was not suspended. the officer did not do that. instead, he chose to ask dubose to get out of the vehicle, opening his car door and then from there we see what happens where dubose reacts not wanting to have the car door opened and the officer drew his gun and shot once fatally wounding sam dubose and the vehicle then according to joe deters reactionary after this takes off. the shot happens before the car actually moves and hearing that from the prosecutor, we also heard that from mark o'mara. comes to rest down the street against a telephone pole or an electricity pole. and we see another officer that then moves in to frame.
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but this all happened really quickly on july 19th. former federal prosecutor kendall coffey joins us now. talking about this happening quickly, it is a surprise to you that they were able to convene this grand jury so quickly, turn around from july 19th until today a murderen enindictment or is that not quick? am i thinking that's fast or not? >> no. you're right. that's fast. grand juries can be sitting each week readily available to a prosecutor. normally there are some more extended period of time and this case really turned on that same body camera video clip we have all seen and certainly the prosecutor and no doubt the grand jury thought that it was enough to establish problem cause of murder. murder doesn't require a motive. any amount of planning. it's a purposeful killing quhchlt you pull out a gun and shoot somebody in the head that
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can be charged and proven as a crime of murder. >> and meanwhile, thinking about this from the defense of the police officer, go from that side of things kendall. how would defense attorney based on this video try to say that the officer was in fear for his life? i mean we see in the video where he is instructed, sam dubose, the look for his registration. goes in the golf box. nothing in there that would give the officer a type of trepidation or type of fear of a concealed weapon or anything like that. but what would you say from a defense perspective that the, you know officer can say he feared for his life? >> well this is a very tough video. usually there's pieces of it are missing, parts of the scene that aren't really captured. so a defense can say, well here's the rest of the story. this is what you couldn't see on the video. here it appeared that we could
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see most everything. and there's nothing that we saw that even remotely suggested some kind of threat to the officer, some kind of prospect of bodily injury to anybody. so, we see a lot of videos and sometimes even with video officers are acquitted. but this one seemed to have the entire picture and it's a picture that could add up to conviction. >> we'll know a lot more about the officer, the arraignment is tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. his attorney had earlier said that he had thought that this video would show how his client was legitimately in fear for his life when he fired his weapon. i think people can see for themselves and decide for them obviously, the grand jury did and came back with a murder indictment. we will have the press conference in two minutes, taking a quick break and coming back with much more.
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if he asks forgiveness, oh yeah. i can forgive him. i can forgive anybody. god forgave us. >> so listening there to the mom of 43-year-old sam dubose. that is audrey dubose her son was shot and killed on july 19th by university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing who is now indicted on murder. all based on the body camera footage that was turned over the day of the shooting. as all part of the investigation. now, ray tensing gave a completely different story and indicated he was in fear of his life dragged by the vehicle operated by dubose. but the exchange that's captured after dubose is pulled over for not having a front license plate on his vehicle tells a different tale. that's why the grand jury has come back with the murder indictment. tensing himself turned himself over to authorities and having an arraignment tomorrow morning and expecting a press conference from the cincinnati mayor coming
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up momentarily. i want to check in with francis watching social media reaction on this. i know a lot of people have been hitting us up about showing the video in full making sure that we see the exchange. what are you watching? >> certainly, massive amounts of social media reaction thomas in the past hour ever since that prosecutor took to the stand and the podium there announcing this denouncing this as murder and even more so showing that video live as the press was seeing it there at that press conference, we were seeing it here, as well. even more so when members of sam dubose's family gave such emotional account from his mother, brother and sister. it is amazing to watch this trending over an hour. 28,000 tweets in the united states alone and that is counting with 1 after the other and reverb here on how that's completely spiked up with sam dubose trending as word is spreading about this and also
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the indictment of the police officer. also, want to read with you some of the reaction starting with many notables many celebrities including oprah win bring and tweeted immediately after hearing this news. also solange knowles. black people do not want to exit the vehicle because it end in murder too many times and from a "the new york times" op-ed columnist charles blow who tweeted just moments ago, trying to write about this sam dubose case having a hard time. feels like i keep writing the same damn thing and it keeps happening. so certainly the sentiment over and over again on social media from, again, just shock and watching this video from the police body cam, from the moment that the gun was shot and the moment that sam dubose was hit. and again, from reaction very emotional reaction from his family members, thomas. >> yeah. as we can imagine, talking about
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forgiveness so quickly in all of this francis, it's hard to believe after they just buried sam dubose yesterday. they held the funeral services after his death on the 19th. we are going to talk now to rashad robinson executive director of color of change. i know you have been following this story very closely. your organization works to bring together black america and unite it in the political voice. i'm looking over some of our notes here and seeing whether or not the ohio governor john kasich running for the gop nomination for president made any comment on this. obviously, this is a big issue for his state and we're waiting for officials in cincinnati to give a press conference coming up. but for you and your organization, what does this say to you about seeing an officer indicted? >> well it's incredibly important to see officers indicted. but we understand that the system is so stacked against the officers indicted.
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this police officer was given 48 hours to work with his police union to craft a story. had there not been video, had the video been tainted in some way, had the video been damaged in some way, we would have been dealing with a very different situation. once again, justice being denied. over and over and over again, when black americans are harmed or hurt by police we see no justice. and now, we are seeing some sense of justice but the road the box that has to be cleared in order to get some some path to get us on some path of justice is so high that for many folks we simply just don't know where to go from here. >> well and this path to justice right now, this is only an indictment. it is certainly not a conviction. that will be left up to how this legal process plays out. but what is your position and your organization's position on the importance of police body cameras? >> we think that body cameras
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are incredibly important and body cameras with a set of principles around privacy and surveillance that there are going to need to be strict rules how video is stored and treated that video needs to be released and just can't be held in the hands of police officers. that we need to see the full footage. not just snippets. and many cases around the country, whether it's been dash cam video or body camera video we don't get all of it. it's used for other cases or privacy implications are violated. so we do believe that body cameras are important because what we do understand that it's what we see over and over again is that police simply can't police themselves and that we do need sort of additional you know we do need additional
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oversight so that in these situations justice can be served and that everyone can have a true understanding of what's happening. >> yeah. the oversight to keep the integrity of the investigation because as we heard from some members of sam dubose's family worryied of collusion between the other officers to help the narrative, build the narrative of ray tensing. rashad robinson from color of change, thank you very much. i with tonight go back to my colleague francis on background of who is ray tensing. >> we are finding this information with the help of the cincinnati enquirer who's done some digging and came up with the information. they're reporting that since july 19th, ray tensing has not spoken publicly. lawyer told the cincinnati enquirer that the client is depressed and upset about the incident. he is 25 years old. completed uc clairemont's two-year police academy in 2010.
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received a bachelor of science degree in 2012. been a police officer just over four years. awarded 19 certificates for successfully completing various training programs according to tensing's uc personnel file and three performance evaluations in that time. the latest was just a past april. his annual salary is a little over $51,000 and two former chiefs with green hills police praised the officer for respecting others and being dedicated to job. described as intelligent, personable and pleasant. interesting as the cincinnati enquirer is reporting since the shooting incident and the death of sam dubose that their client ray tensing is depressed and very upset about it thomas. >> we can only imagine. as you point, 25 years old, four years of experience under his belt. the life lost here is 43-year-old sam dubose. if you're just joining us you
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need to get caught up on the breaking news coverage of this afternoon. it is on the -- what is now murder. it's classified as a murder after the indictment has come back. because that's what officer tensing is charged with. the shooting of sam dubose. pulled over on july 19th for not having a front license plate on his vehicle. so simple traffic stop. asked for a license. he didn't have a license on him. he asked for the officer to run his name and didn't do that. he tried to engage the door open the door get dubose out of the vehicle and dubose didn't want to get out of the vehicle. didn't want his door opened. and that's where we see in the video the officer draw his firearm. this is the news conference where we have been expecting to hear from the mayor of cincinnati. let's listen in. >> as we all know july 19th sam dubose was shot and killed by a university of cincinnati police officer tensing during a traffic
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stop in mt. auburn. since the incident the city of cincinnati police department is working with the university of cincinnati police department in terms of conducting the initial investigation. the county prosecutor came involved and at his request we have turned over everything over to the prosecutor. and he commissioned the grand jury process which concluded its work either late yesterday or first thing this morning indictments have been issued and we are pleased that the process worked as we have been saying all along. though a very difficult situation, the body camera footage is now released. clearly, when you review the video, something went tragically wrong with this traffic stop. and loss of life as a result. the process to answer the question as to exactly what happened in progressing through
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it and will be progressing through the court system and continue to support the university of cincinnati however we can. the bottom line is that a life is lost. we need to make sure we learn something from this situation to ensure that mr. dubose's death is not in vain. we understand tensions are high in this city. we are encouraging folks to peacefully express how they're feeling. that is an important part of the democratic process. as we always do, we are making preparations for any scenarios that may present themselves. for this afternoon, you'll hear from mayor and president of the university of cincinnati followed by chief blackwell. i'll ask the mayor to offer remarks. >> first let me say that i had a chance to meet this morning with the family.
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and it was a very sad occasion. lots of tears. but i will tell you that as you heard in the press conference just a little while ago that the family is in mourning but also wants to honor the spirit of samuel's life. and as they described him, he was a jokester and not a violent man. and they want him to be remembered as such. and they want this city to act in a way to honor his spirit. and i on behalf of the city was able to express our condolences to the family and i want to thank the family for their leadership for this city at this time. the second thing i went to say is that i think we all hoped that the charges that would come
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out of the grand jury would match the video. the actions on the video. that if the actions on the video were justified that that would be the charge or no charge and if the actions were not justified that charges would reflect that. we wanted the right thing to be done. the just thing to be done. the fair thing to be done. we wanted the truth to come out. and when you look at for example, the videos in new york earlier this year and you see that no charge was brought, there was a great sense that maybe justice was not done. in this case i want to thank prosecutor joe deters for his extraordinary leadership, not for pushing an agenda but for doing the right thing.
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and i've known joe for almost 20 years. and he has done the city an enormous public service today. i want to thank him and his office for moving quickly in the pursuit of the right thing. we are going to get through this with the help of the family and the help of the many people in this room. our police department is prepared and ready to deal with anything that happens today or tomorrow or the next couple of days. we have the best police department in the world. we respect the right of people to peacefully protest and to exercise their first amendment rights. and there is obviously reason for people to be angry today. and upset.
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and, people deserve the right to be able to do so in a public manner. our police department is prepared to respect that. our police department is also prepared to deal with people that would violate the spirit of samuel dubose's life which was nonviolence and his family has called for the same. i also want to take a minute to thank the unity of this city right now. we have great civil rights leaders like bishop bobby hilton and pete mingo here walking the streets, who have been talking to the community. who have lots of experience urging calm and peace. and also demanding justice. i want to thank my colleagues. we have got councilman, former police officer wendell young, council woman simmons,
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councilman pj sitten feld. i know councilman schmidterman is on a family vacation but he is checking in constantly and asking what he can do to help. woody allen said half of life is just showing up and i'm proud that this city and the city council is here present. at a tough time for our city. also want to take special acknowledgment of state representative christie bryant who is here. and cecil thomas state senator, cecil. cecil was an incredible leader back in 2001 and really helped this city and every time i turn on the tv he is out there walking the walk. and so we're blessed to have a lot of people who have worked together over many years and those relationships are
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activated now. and we are in this together. i urge people to go about their business. those who need to exercise their moral outrage are allowed to do so, of course in a peaceful way and we'll respect that. but we cincinnati will get through this. we'll get through this with a fair justice process that joe deters an overseeing and with a professional police department there on the street. we'll continue to work with our great university the university of cincinnati and its leader who we have gotten to know over the last several of years and really epitomized the spirtd of cincinnati. and that is president santa ono who will now speak. >> thank you. well i too, had a chance to meet with the family earlier today. and it was a very, very sad time
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and conversation. and i gave them my condolences and my prayers and my thoughts an prayers continue for the family and loved ones of samuel dubose. he was clearly a remashible person, a family man and a member of the community. as a result of the grand jury action we have decided, university of cincinnati police chief jason goodrich and i, to immediately terminate officer ray tensing. and that has already taken place. beyond the criminal investigation, as i've said earlier this week the university is reviewing what has occurred and will take all necessary steps to address any training, staffing and hiring policy issues that may be indicated by review of this
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event. we are fully committed to doing anything, even retraining officers so that we can be really a model of public safety from a university setting. the other thing that many of you are aware of is that thanks to many of the me believes of this room over the past several days i have personally been meeting with many community leaders who have been there and i thank them for that. we'll continue to partner with them in the weeks, months and even years ahead to ensure that the university of cincinnati strengthens our commitment to partnering with the city of cincinnati the cincinnati police department and the public to be really one of the best in public safety. thank you. >> chief blackwell.
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>> clearly this is a tragedy for our city and for our nation. our hearts collectively all of our hearts go out to the dubose family. we recognize that in law enforcement and you've heard me say this before most of you in this room what affects us anywhere affects us everywhere. so we're prayerful that this cumulative impact doesover ly exacerbate this tragedy scenario. we're grateful for the timely conclusion of the investigation. i truly believe that the work that they completed is demonstrative of an outstanding commitment to justice, transparency and truth telling. while we're hopeful for the peaceful protesting of today's decision make no mistake that
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we are operationally prepared to respond to other things that may occur in our community. violence and lawlessness cannot and will not be tolerated. thank you. >> okay. at this time we'll take several questions. >> president ono, prosecutor deters said that there was no place for the police department in colleges. have you considered any way entirely -- >> i have not. the policing that's required of university and college police are very different from the policing in a metropolitan area. as you have heard from chief blackwell, we are continuously talking about how to strengthen that partnership. it's been around for decades. and so important thing is to ensure the safety of the entire community and the university community and will require honest conversations evolving as i said top to bottom review of
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ucpd. we have a lot of great men and women in ucpd and so as i said we'll complete that top to bottom review. we will monitor what we're doing over in a data driven way over whatever length of time is necessary to ensure we move beyond this and partner very -- in a meaningful way with cincinnati police. as we speak there are individuals from district 4, district 5 together with ucpd staff on the university of cincinnati campus so that kind of partnership is really essential. >> following up on that -- >> mayor kranly, is the city even realistically in a position to his police department disbanned and take over the university of cincinnati pd? >> first of all, let me say that as santa has already said
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there's going to be an independent review investigation of the ucpd. we have already said that reform obviously needs to be add to at least bring the uc police department in conformity with our collaborative agreement. clearly, nonnegotiable at this point. it's too early to say how that all ends up. obviously, our police department could do it. but regardless this isn't a unilateral decision. we are in partnership with uc and will work all these things out together. too early to tell. as santa told you, our police department is with the uc police department. our police department has enormous experience with situations like this. and i've asked and the uc has agreed to allow our folks to stand shoulder


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