don't forget you can watch andrea mitchell's entire interview with hillary clinton in one hour on the rachel maddow show. chris matthews returns tuesday and "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> we can, unfortunately, do what he's doing which i think is a bad development for our american political system. >> democratic front-runner takes on the republican front-runner in an msnbc exclusive as donald trump fails the so-called commander-in-chief quiz. >> are you familiar with general soleimani? >> yes. go ahead, give me a little -- go ahead, tell me. >> and the standoff in kentucky. >> she's not going to resign, she can't sacrifice her conscience. >> the lawyer for kim davis joins me live. plus, robert reich on

berniementum and correcting the record on an american visionary. >> the whole structure of my life was changed forever by going and working on the mac. >> alex gibony on his amazing new documentary about steve jobs. >> it's certainly one of the most intense and cherished experiences they will have in their life. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. in an interview with msnbc's andrea mitchell, hillary clinton weighed in on the kind of campaign being run by her potential front-runner opponent, republican donald trump. >> he's great at innuendo and conspiracy theories and really defaming people. that's not what i want to do in my campaign and that's not how i'm going to conduct myself and i also believe the president of the united states has to be careful about what he or she says. loose talk, threats, insults,

they have consequences, so i'm going to conduct myself as i believe is appropriate for someone seeking the highest office in our country. >> trump's insult comic shtick makes for good television, it may not be what voters ultimately want for the person controlling our nuclear arsenal. clinton's comments come as trump is embroiled in another feud, this time with hugh hewitt, a conservative radio host. it started with an interview yesterday on hewitt's show when trump had trouble answering questions on foreign policy. >> are you familiar with general soleimani? >> yes. i -- go ahead, give me a little -- go ahead, tell me. >> he runs the quds forces. >> yes, okay. right. >> do you expect -- >> and i think the kurds, by the way, have been horribly mistreated by us. >> not the kurds, the quds forces, the iranian revolutionary guards, quds forces, the bad guys. >> yes, right. >> do you expect -- >> oh, i thought you said kurds, kurds. >> no, quds. >> i thought you said kurds.

>> on the front of islamist terrorism, i'm looking for the next commander-in-chief to know who hassan nasrulla is and al zawahiri and al baghdadi. do you know the players without a score card yet, donald trump? >> no, i'll tell you honestly. i think by the time we get to office they'll all be changed, that i'll be gone. i knew you were going to ask me things like this and there's no reason because number one i'll find -- i will hopefully find general douglas macarthur in the pack. >> i don't believe in gotcha questions, i'm not trying to quiz you on -- >> well, that is a gotcha question, when you're asking me about who's running this, this, this. that's not -- i will be so good at the military your head will spin. >> this morning, trump lashed into hewitt. >> i thought he said kurds, this third-rate radio announcer that i did his show. every question was do i know this one and that one and it was like he worked hard on that. but i thought he said kurds.

>> hewitt told the huffington post "i think yesterday's question set was fair, obviously donald trump disagrees. that said i hope he comes back on often." hewitt is said to co-moderate the next republican debate. donald trump is far from the only presidential candidate to stumble on foreign policy. ben carson, another political outsider surging in gop polls simply flubbed a couple foreign policy questions on hewitt's show in march and while a number of candidates have had trouble with basic foreign policy knowledge, sometimes the voters cared and sometimes they didn't. >> are you ready for the gotcha questions? they're coming from the media and others on foreign policy, who's the president of uzbekistan, all of this stuff. it's coming and how are you dealing with that? >> i'm ready for the gotcha questions and they are already starting to come and when they ask me who's the president of uzbeki-stan stan, i'm going to say i don't know, do you know? and i'm going to say "how does that create one job?" >> you've cited alaska's

proximity to russia as part of your foreign policy experience. what do you mean by that? >> that alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, russia, and on the other side the land boundary we have with and can da. it's funny that a comment like that was kind of made to -- i don't know. you know. >> the new pakistani general has just been elected -- not elected this, guy took over office. it appears he's going to bring stability to the country and the's good news. >> you can name him? >> jegeneral, i can name the general. >> it is? >> general. joining me republican strategist roger stone, former top advisor to donald trump and msnbc's roger warren. i know you are a devoted fan of richard nixon, yes. >> yes. >> do you have a nixon tattoo? >> yes, i admire him for his resilience. it's the fact that when you come down in life you get back up.

>> but richard nixon, whatever you say, that was a guy who would have been fine on the foreign policy questions. i mean, does that make you cringe? >> not really because i think it's about understanding the big picture in foreign policy. hillary clinton knew the name of every of these foreign leaders. we lost control to enemies across the middle east and she botched benghazi, so how much good did that doer? this is about larger policies. >> well, but -- you don't think t i's a threshold issue? >> i don't. this is why trump's voters are tired of the elite media being in bed with the political establishment. these kind of gotcha questions. >> you think hugh hewitt is part of the elite media? >> i think he had his 15 minutes and in a year you'll never hear his name again. >> what do you think? >> i refer back to the classic political science text on this, the reasoning voter by sam popkin who argues that voters are -- they exercise low information rationality. so ultimately they take short cuts to assess personalities of

presidential candidates and then use those short decision. ultimately this won't matter for donald trump's voters in the republican primary. if he made it to the a general election, voters will care much more about domestic issues and a general sense of his foreign policy positions. the gotcha questions isn't what -- it isn't going to move one voter in terms of -- especially republican voters to another candidate or not. >> that may be true. my question, though, is if he is going to be -- let's say -- i mean, let's say he's the nominee, presumably there's going to be a point, right -- and there's no reason. in the same way i wouldn't know very much about how the develop a hotel, right? if you asked me right now, like, well, what's the zoning? i'd be like "i don't know." but at a certain point if someone said "you're going to develop a hotel." i've figure it out. presumably he's going to study this, right? >> i think presidential politics is about sweeping issues, it's not getting down in the weeds. trump understands isis is going

to start killing people in this country soon and they need to be dealt with. he knows the iran deal, for example, is a flawed deal and not in the interest of the country. this is what people care about. >> the thing you just said there reminds me of a great reagan quote. he says the problem with our liberal friends is they know so many things that aren't true. what you just said, knowing things that aren't true. that isis is going to kill people here, that the iranian deal doesn't work. how can we trust him on the iranian deal if he doesn't know w who qassem suleimewel soleimani? aren't they the same pointy headed intellectuals we shouldn't trust? how do you sort out the experts? >> most of the ones you trust are retired and knowledgeable. invite me back in a year when isis kills the first american on american soil. >> they may do that and god forbid i hope they don't. >> everybody suggests that this is coming based on intelligence. >> chris, this is actually probably because he listened to you for so long, roger, this is

the brilliance of donald trump's campaign because he is driving the media narrative. we're going to be talking about that for the next few days and this is going to be the discussion leading up to the next debate. the next debate is automatically framed as this square off between -- >> by the way, i love the idea of donald trump with thrash cards to bust out when hugh hewitt asks him a series of gotcha questions. >> i suspect he'll be very well prepared. >> i would imagine he would. it struck me how much this phrase "the silent majority" as figured in donald trump. that's a callback to nixon. a nixon coinage from a lilt after '68, i think. it was after the '68 election. but there's something that strikes me about that. in 1968, whites as a percentage of the population of voting age were 90%. by 2013 it's 63%. so there's this real question of that nixon block, that nixon majority, does that nixon majority exists in america. >> why do we assume they're all white. nixon made great inroads into

the african-american community. he got a third against john kennedy, 28% against hubert humphrey, he put more money into the african-american business community than any president in history. >> you know what the trajectory of republican vote totals and you know donald trump right now has an unfavorability rating of 79% among non-white voters. >> so people have a choice. they can choose opportunity and job growth and prosperity and future for the american dream or they can argue about immigration. i'm arguing that at the end of the day trump as someone who can return the country to prosperity will have appeal to all voters not just white voters. >> you think the numbers will change? >> they've already started to change. >> this is the last gasp of dog whistle politics in terms of using racism strategically to recruit white voters to vote for republican party principles that is arguably against most white americans' interests in terms of economic interests. and, in fact, donald trump isn't even dog whistling, he's dog barking in this case. this is the las gasp because after this presidential election in 2016, the republican party will either die because they

can't use this strategy anymore, this is the last chance they'll get to use this strategically racist strategy or they'll have to come up with something else. they might, though, push latinos into -- and especial will i latinos who vote for the first time in 2016 and asian americans and those that identify as people of color, they might push them permanently into the democratic camp for a lifetime. >> let me ask you this -- >> obviously i don't agree with that. >> i know. but let me ask you think. i know who you think will get the nomination. who is the biggest threat to donald trump? who is the -- who has the pole position for number two? >> i think the nomination contest is still wide open. although trump niece a strong position and he's clearly the front-runner, and he has the money necessary to get into a fire fight. otherwise the nomination is wide open. i do think it's interesting that the three candidates who have moved up are all from outside the realm of politics. dr. ben carson, carly fiorina, and trump. that says something about the american people's view of

politics, politicians, government, political institutions, the immediate yarchlts i would say it's particularly true of -- most of those polling are republican primary voters, likely republican primary voters. i think it's particularly true of the republican electorate at this moment and ted cruz who has also polled well and fashioned himself as a kind of enemy of the sort of traditionalist. >> he's playing the long game and i think very skillfully. he's a very talented speaker, he has a strategy and following it. >> and he hasn't attacked donald trump. so that puts him in line to be a vp pick potential. >> i or to inherent anti-establishment votes. >> and they will appear together at a rally against the iran deal. roger stone, thank you very much, dorian warren, thanks for being here. still to come, bernie sanders live from iowa. robert reich on what today's job report means plus same-sex couples get marriage licenses as kentucky county clerk kim davis is still in jail. her lawyer joins me live. later, there are andrea

mitchell's interview with hillary clinton. both she and donald trump have weighed in on the refugee crisis so we asked every presidential campaign to see where they stand and we will have their responses ahead. behold, these are two wind turbines. can you spot the difference? the wind farm on the right was created using digital models and real world location-based specs that taught it how to follow the wind. so while the ones on the left are waiting, the ones on the right are pulling power out of thin air. pretty impressive, huh? now, two things that are exactly the same have

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>> the most relevant factor in my decision is whether my family and i have the emotional energy to run. if i can reach that conclusion that we can do it in a fashion that would still make it viable, i would not hesitate to do it. but i have to be honest with you, and everyone who's come to me, i can't look you straight in the eye and say now i know i can do that. that's as honest as i can be. >> vice president joe biden speaking candidly at an atlanta synagogue about what it would take for him to run for president in 2016. a recent quinnipiac poll shows

biden does better than hillary clinton. he's pulling in third at 18% behind bernie sanders 22%. right now bernie sanders is on the stump as he has been plugging away in iowa holding a town hall at this moment. we will check in on that live next. hey terry stop! they have a special! so, what did you guys think of the test drive? i love the jetta. but what about a deal? terry, stop! it's quite alright... you know what? we want to make a deal with you. we're twins, so could you give us two for the price of one?

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expansions ever recorded. the latest jobs report offer mrs. evidence the economy still could be doing better. the economy added 147,000 jobs in august and the unemployment rate dropped to 5.1%, lowest level since 2008. average hourly earnings rose by a better-than-expected .3 percent in august. since 2009 the poorest have suffered the steepest decline in real wages bespite a rebounding growing economy. for those still looking for full time work, there's plenty of talk from presidential candidate candidates. >> creating jobs is our highest moral purpose. >> the american people will create millions of better paying modern jobs. >> a plan that will help people

create more jobs and higher wages. >> now that will create millions of jobs and countless new businesses. >> and there's senator sanders who has a concrete jobs plan no matter what political critics think of it. it's a jobs plan written right there on his web site. it would involve investing a trillion dollars on infrastructure products and createing 13 million jobs. his focus remains firmly on the poor and middle class. joining me now, former secretary -- >> i am tired of seeing in the vermont, seeing it here in iowa and seeing all across this country that the greed of a few who want it all who are at war against the middle-class and working families our job is to tell them loudly and clearly their day has come and gone.

they are not going to get it all. >> joining me now, former secretary of labor robert reich author of the book "saving capitalism for the many not the few" and star of the women "inequality for all." let's start today, robert, with this fundamental contradiction in the economy. it's growing. it's one of the most enduring post-war expansions we've ever seen in terms of the amount of months we've had private sector job growth. wages are creeping up, unemployment is down, but we have this problem of money getting into the pockets of essentially working americans. >> that's exactly right, chris. this has been -- in terms of wage this is has been the most enme mick recovery on record, the first recovery since 1946 in which the median household income actually dropped adjusted for inflation. people talk about average wages going up. averages don't mean anything. the basketball player shaquille o'neal and i have an average height of 6'2".

i happen to be very short. i mean, what you really want to look is at the median, look at the people in the median and below. they are not getting ahead. even if they have jobs they're getting -- they're falling behind. >> so that's -- that strikes me as one of the central challenges of this. what do you think of bernie sanders's idea of direct infrastructure investment, over five years, we have a multiplier effect, you hire people to build stuff, does that work. bridges roads? green construction? >> i tell you why i think it's a good an important idea. because we can borrow very, very low interest rates right now and number two you have a lot of people who are not only out of work working part time and would rather be working full time, a lot of people too discouraged

and you have a crumbling infrastructure. you have roads and bridges and pipes and rapid transit systems falling apart. put those three together and it's logical this plan is necessary. >> so the question becomes, does that address the central problem? you get people out there, it tightens the labor market. because we have more jobs and more competition for those laborers we see wages go up but in some ways a tightening labor market so far hasn't done that. why do we think this would help? >> well, a tightening labor market, we haven't seen a very, very tight labor market given the things i just said. we saw a tighter labor market in the late 1990s and that's when the bottom 20% did better in terms of wages but there's a much larger problem here and it goes back to -- starts at the late 1970s. productivity continues to increase, american workers are

doing more and more but their wages are going nowhere. adjusted for inflation, most people in the united states today are no better than their counterparts were in the middle-class or poorer 35 years ago. i mean there has been a huge movement of excess productivities with wages, income, wealth, all going to the top. >> what you said right there literally sounds like it could be a bernie sanders stump speech which prompt this is question. do you have a favorite in this race? you're close to the clintons. you were a rhodes scholar with bill clinton, you served in his administration, you've known hillary clinton and bill clinton for decades. obviously what you just articulated sounds like bernie sanders stump speech. do you have a preference here? >> are you trying to put me in a corner here, chris? >> i'm just asking an innocent question. >> is this a donald trump kind of gotcha question? no, i -- look, i have known h g

hillary since she was 19 years old. she'd make an excellent president. i've known bernie a long time, too. and in terms of policies he is very much articulating the kinds of things that are needed in this country. i think that he's allow ing alle is create tergtory for hillary to move into. he's allowing hillary and the democratic candidate to be bolder than otherwise. but this country right now needs boldness. the reason that donald trump is coming from the right that angry right wing populism and that you have bernie sanders from the left, a kind of progressive populism is because most people are just fed up with the system as it is. >> robert reich, thank you very much, have a great weekend. >> you, too. how a look at how the benghazi select committee has taken a left turn into scandal-chasing territory. ♪

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had two accounts, one for personal and one for work related and i've been as transparent as i could asking that all 55,000 pages be released to the public, turning over my server, looking for opportunities to testify before congress. i've offered for nearly a year finally the committee will give me a chance to testify in public if the -- toward the end of october. >> the committee clinton is referring to, the house select committee on benghazi. by the time she testifies before that committee, it will have been around for more than 500 days. that's longer than the congressional inquiries into hurricane katrina, the attack on pearl harbor, the assassination of president kennedy, iran can tra a -- contra and watergate. as adam schiff notes, when the benghazi committee was first formed last may, eight standing committees had already investigated the benghazi attacks as had the independent accountability review board but house speaker john boehner

insisted -- with a straight face -- that there was still legitimate work to be done. well, today the committee heard testimony from jake sullivan, clinton's top policy advisor when she was secretary of state. yesterday heard more than eight hours of testimony from long time clinton advisor cheryl mills who asked for her full testimony to be made public. her request -- perhaps oddly -- was turned down by the committee chairman republican tray gowdy and you can see why mills might want the hole transcript out there. elijah cummings, the top democrat on the committee, accused republicans of selectively leaking doctored and misleading information designed to hurt clinton. then there's brian pag leanne know who set up the server and was subpoenaed to testify before the committee. pagliano said he would plead the fifth prompting the question what he has to hide. but i think the question is what does the it guy who set up clinton's e-mail server have to do with the four americans tragically killed in benghazi? the answer would seem to be, well, not a whole lot.

but then again, the benghazi committee at this point doesn't really seem to be about benghazi. >> this investigation has turned into a derail hillary clinton nomination by any means necessary. >> indeed, the benghazi committee should probably be called what it is -- the house committee to destroy hillary clinton's chances at being president. remember, we have seen this sort of thing before. ken starr, remember him, special prosecutor, was appointed to investigate the whitewater land deal -- not whether president clinton had had an affair. but this is the gop play book against the clintons, find a reason to investigate, then fish for something, anything you can use against them, even if has nothing do with the original investigation. and something tells me that before it's finally disbanded this benghazi committee is going to break all kinds of records for longevity. l be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay

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>> here's your receipt, congratulations. [ cheers and applause ] >> william smith, jr., and james yates were the first same-sex couple to get a marriage license in rowan county clerk kim davis' office. a short time later, three more same-sex couples followed. that's because davis herself remains in jail for defying a federal court order to issue marriage licenses. this morning, republican presidential candidate mike huckabee seemed to apply kim davis is being punished more severely than some of america's most notorious serial killers. >> she's being held without bail. i want you to think about this. jeffrey dahmer got bail. albert desalvo, boston strangler, got bail, john wayne gacy got bail. kim davis, because she follow her convictions, is put in jail and is not given bail. >> accord dog her lawyer, davis

is prepared to stay in jail rather than "violate her conscience" which in this case mean hearse religious believes that marriage is a union of one man and one woman. in a press conference, staver said the licenses were void because they lacked the signature of kim davis and compared his client to dr. reverend martin luther king, jr. >> she's faced with a decision, do i resign as an elected official where i've been doing a good job or do i sacrifice my conscience? she's not going to resign. she can't sacrifice her conscience so she is willing, as martin luther king, jr. wrote in "letter from the birmingham jail" to pay the consequences of that decision and that's why she's here, although she shouldn't be. joining me now matthew staver, the legal group representing kim davis. mr. staver, there's no victory here. there's no path to victory. how do you understand the end game here? >>. >> well, there certainly is no victory when kim davis, an innocent person, is actually

incarcerated. in fact, one of the marshals even said that never before had he arrested someone who committed no crime. she's commit nod crime. >> she's been found in contempt of court. people do occasionally get put in jail for being in contempt of court. i've reported on people that that's happened to. >> you know, as far as the end game is concerned, that's up to the appellate court because so much due process has been violated in this case. kim davis will do two things -- she will not resign unless the people want her to be removed and they put her there and they want her to stay there and number two she's going to not sacrifice her conscience, she can't violate her conscience. it's a line she can't cross. >> what's the limited principle? if she did not want to give marriage licenses to interracial couples, would that be okay? >> well, we've got expressed constitutional amendments to that effect. >> no, no, but -- >> is there a reasonable accommodation -- >> let's be clear.

those were only found in 1967 in loving v. virginia. that was a supreme court decision that found that and the question is post-loving v. virginia, 1967, if someone had done this, should they also have the right to carry on their duties and not give marriage licenses to interracial couples? >> the difference is before and after the supreme court decision marriage was always and still remained the union of a man and a woman -- >> no, no. >> there were constitutional -- >> but answer the question. >> there was express constitutional amendments against racial discrimination. they injected race into marriage between a man and woman. it didn't change the essence of marriage before or after "loving" it got away racism -- >> but if the issue here, as you say, is conscience, right, then that sort of jurisprudential argument doesn't seem to apply. the question is what does her christian conscience tell her? if someone's christian conscience didn't allow them to, for instance, issue divorce certificates, jesus himself condemned divorce, let's be clear, should they be able to do

that? >> let's be very clear. throughout the millennia of human history we've never had same-sex marriage. >> but jesus -- answer the divorce question. >> it wasn't her job duty when she ran for office in 2014 and it was changed by five people two months ago and as a result of that she stays in jail. >> answer the question about divorce. i really do want to know the limited principle here. >> the essence of marriage has always been the unit of a man and women. when it's fundamentally changed, not whether you can or not get married because of divorce or not divorce, that doesn't fundamentally change marriage -- >> mr. staver. mr. staver? no-fault divorce is perhaps the most radical change to marriage that has happened in centuries and there were many people, including the pope, who said so when it was introduced. so my question the -- >> what does that have to do with a clerk? a clerk has nothing do with that but when a clerk authorized under the name and the authority a marriage that has never been in the existence of the history of millennia, that's fundamentally present and that collides with her conscience,

the only thing she's asking for this -- >> the question, sir -- >> remove her name and authority from the certificate and she can file it, issue it. that's a simple accommodation for conscience. >> let me ask you this. how is your organization doing in terms of fund-raising right now? >> why don't you ask that we do the aclu? >> well, they're not standing in front of me but i'd be happy to. >> but you've never asked that question of the aclu, have you? >> how are you doing? >> why don't you ask that to the aclu when they represent their people? why don't you ask that of the people who represented o.j. simpson whether they were getting their money. that's irrelevant to the issue. >> no, the issue is there's a woman in prison -- >> the issue here is accommodate her conscience and religious freedom. it's very easy to do. you may not want to address that but that's the simple issue. >> mr. staver, there are allies of yours talking to reporters saying they think you're taking kim davis for a ride and raising money off her plate so i'm asking you the question. how are you doing on fund raising this week? >> anyone who asks that question does not know kim davis, kim

davis has a strong conviction and conscience. she contacted us for representation, we are representing her. we're putting more money into the cost and expenses than we would ever get from this case. this has never been about fund-raising. this is about protecting someone's conscience, if you can't get that simple idea that we've got freedom of religion and conscience rights and the question is not whether she's sincere, but is there a reasonable way to accommodate her? >> with all due respect, the question is is there a limiting condition? you failed to give me this interview. thank you for joining us. still to come, as the world reacts to the overwhelming crisis in europe, i want to know exactly where each of the presidential candidates stand on taking new refugees. i'll tell you what we found ahead. wow mary, is like, every mom from the neighborhood here? look at them all... ...'judgie'. see? you are looking good! using bounce dryer sheets is paying off. your clothes have fewer wrinkles, and static cling... ...ain't bringing you down.

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energy winner and most consequence shl was at that time the loser and he was not happy about it. >> the only problem with microsoft is they just have no taste. they have absolutely no taste and what that means is -- i don't mean that in a small way, i mean in a big way. in the sense that they -- they don't think of original ideas and they don't bring much culture into their product. and you say, well, why is that important? well, proportionally spaced fonts come from typesetting and beautiful books, that's where one gets the idea. if it weren't for the mac, they would never have that in their products. and so i guess i am saddened not by microsoft's success, i have no problem with their success, they've earned their success for the most part.

i have a problem with the fact that they just make really third rate products. >> my interview with the director after the new fantastic steve jobs documentary ahead. feel like this. with dreamwalk insoles, turn shoes that can be a pain into comfortable ones. their soft cushioning support means you can look like this. and feel like this. dreamwalk.

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i have been glued to twitter and television today that has incredible scene is unfolding in hungary. desperate refugees and migrants took it upon themselves to leave budapest and march on foot towards germany. a 300-mile journey in a public act of defiance against a government that tried to keep them there, perhaps helped from that same right wing hungarian government to bus people the austrian border. austria and germany have agreed to take those people in. this comes as a tense standoff with a trainful of refugees and migrants came to an end. a freight train brought in to block the view of cameras while many boarded buses bound for camps. some of those brought to camps in the southern part of the country attempted to break down a fence. police retaliated with tear gas.

meanwhile, the three-year-old syrian boy whose death sparked global outcry was buried today in his hometown of kobani, syria, alongside his mother and five-year-old brother. their bodies returned to the very place they were so desperately trying to escape. in this country, what seemed like a distant crisis a few days sag a presidential campaign issue. today democratic presidential candidate martin o'malley urged the u.s. to take refugees. the state department officials said the u.s. will accept between 5,000 and 8,000 refugees from syria by the end of 2016 but as "time" magazine reports, officials wouldn't confirm those figures. in an interview with msnbc's andrea mitchell, former secretary of state and current democratic front-runner hillary clinton weighed in on the situation but did not give a number as to how many refugees should the u.s. accept. >> should the united states raise its quotas and permit more people from syria to come in? >> well, the pictures, the stories we've been watching this terrible assault on the syrian

people now for years are just heartbreaking and i think the entire world has to come together. it should not be just one or two countries or not just europe and the united states. we should do our part as should the europeans, but this is a broader global crisis. >> on the republican side, when asked if the u.s. should take in refugees donald trump said possibly yes but added europe is "handling it" while rand paul noted the u.s. has taken in syrian refugees, about 1500 and keep in mind germany is taking 800,000 and paul warned against taking too many people. >> i think we have to be care with this and we should have a warm and welcoming heart but we also can't accept the whole world to come hiere either. >> mostly this is vague claptrap from hillary clinton, the state department and rand paul. we've reached out the the other presidential hopefuls for their position on the situation.

the campaigns of jim gilmore and lincoln chafee said they are formulating a policy proposal. we have yet ha-to-hear back from the other candidates and we can with tremendous kaefsy and a system we have in place to take h refugees we can relieve a massive amount of human ser suffering if we as a nation choose to do so. the american public should know where every candidate stands on this and we will keep asking each and every one of them until their positions are clear. we live in a pick and choose world.

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he e's arguably one of the most influential people of the computer age. he was also a very complicated and at times quite flawed human being. director alex gibney's documentary captures that complexity including the sometimes-difficult relationship jobs had with his employees, pushing them the edge to create the first mac. >> they will tell you it was the hardest they've ever worked in their life. some of them will tell you it was the happiest they've ever been in their life, but i think all of them will tell you that is certainly one of the most intense and cherished experiences they will ever have in their life. >> joining me now, alex gibney, a brilliant documentarian whose latest film "steve jobs, the man in the machine" opens today in u.s. theaters. great to have you here, alex. >> great to be here, chris. >> this is not a life, the life of steve jobs, that has gone underchronicled, i think it's

fair to say. >> [ laughter ] i think that's fair to say. >> this is someone who's been in the public eye since he was 24 or 25, there's a variety of documentaries about him. why make this? >> i think it hasn't gone unchronicled but i think what steve jobs' life has done is gone unanalyzed. and this was an attempt to kind of make sense of who he was. what he wrought and also what he means to us. i mean, i guess i was interested in making this because i was kind of surprised when he died that so many people around the world, millions of people around the world who didn't know him from adam, were weeping and that, you know, you wouldn't see that for lloyd blankfein. >> [ laughter ] well, fair. >> so i thought what is this about that? and it was that investigation that i thought was worth doing. not a kind of cradle-to-grave

biography of steve jobs but a sort of -- a look at what he means to us all. >> so what -- and what did you find? what does he mean to us? >> i think one of the interesting thing about jobs is that he was the guy, the personification of the idea that your computer can be more than a tool. it can be an extension of you. he called it the bicycle of the mine. and because he so singularly cast himself in the role as apple and wrote that role very well and performed it very well we grew up with him, with these devices kind of charting that progress. so he is our guy to this world where the computer is an extension of us. >> the -- what comes across in the film which, by the way, is excellent, and it's a gripping piece of visual story telling, there's archival footage and one of the advantages of making this movie is this is a guy that was in the public eye in various times. you have great interviews coming

in and out, and he's the de facto narrator of the story. >> he ends up being. >> that but one of the things that come across is this guy really was a psychopath in some zblas ways. >> i might not go that far. >> but his psychological settings in terms of drive, ambition, focus, single mindedness. the degree to which normal concerns about other people's feelings and social norms and disruption weigh on all of us just did not on him in the way it does for all of us -- for better and for worse. >> i agree. i think because he had that focus it allowed him to do extraordinary things and to make or to preside over the making of extraordinary devices. but i think more than just not being a nice guy, he went out of his way in many instances to be cruel in ways that he didn't have to. did he really have to park his

mercedes in the handicapped section of the lot everyday? those kinds of things -- well, it doesn't matter that mump ch the history of apple, it matters in terms of values. and the reason i wanted to make this film is because of values. not only the values of apple and jobs but of silicon valley and as governments seem to whither and corporations become more powerful either because everybody's too fractious or because they're losing some kind of fundamental grip, we have to wonder about these values and we have to question them. >> but let me make the case for jobs. until i started working at a big corporation i don't think i realized just how powerful herd mentality an inertia are in the highest ranks of the supposedly hypercompetitive private sector. i mean, mostly it's people who are following other people. there's a huge pack and this

unbelievable inertia and people do the thing they saw other people do and it takes someone of a very specific caliber to run away from that or to march straight -- take that head on. and it seems like he was that. >> he was. and more power to him. i mean, he -- he really charted a new path. but you can be tough, you don't kno necessarily have to be cruel. he encouraged us all to think different. emblazoned on that advertising campaign were the images of gandhi, martin luther king, rosa parks, but he didn't seem to transmit those values to the workers in china who were being paid so little and whose working conditions were so bad. sol those are the issues i think that we have to reckon with. and also i think the other interesting thing about jobs was he really did connect us to our machines in a very powerful way and he connected those machines

to each other so that we're all more interconnected. i think you have to give him tremendous credit for that. at the same time, the guy had difficulty himself with human connection. i think he viewed it as transactional and i think we can also look at these devices and wonder how much they're connecting us and isolating us. so in a way the story of jobs was also an opportunity to look at what he had wrought with these devices. >> finally, what did apple make of this film? how cooperative were they? how much do they see themselves as guarantors of his legacy and reputation? >> i think they do see themselves as guarantors as his legacy of a saint, he wasn't that. and they gave us no cooperation. in fact, i was amused when they said "sorry, we don't have the resources to help you on this project." i was wondering, if they don't have the resources, who does? >>. [ laughter ] yeah. >> so they didn't cooperate, but that's all right.

sometimes that allows you or forces you to go in more interesting directions. >> all right. alex gibney, documentary on steve jobs, excellent work. thank you very much. >> thanks so much. that's all for this evening. the rachel maddow show with much more of andrea mitchell's interview with hillary clinton starts right now. since hillary clinton started running for president, overall this time, with all that has happened so far in the presidential race she has done two -- precisely two -- national sit-down interviews. she'll occasionally do a press gaggle or short press conference here and there, she'll occasionally take a shouted question. but when it comes to taking, though, a long haul series of questions from one reporter with follow-ups and everything, an in-depth interview, that is the unicorn with hen's teeth jumping over a double rainbow of a blue moon of this campaign. that's impossible to get. but andrea