tv MSNBC Special Pope Francis in America MSNBC September 27, 2015 12:00pm-5:01pm PDT
we talk about syria and libya in particular so tune in for that because if it's monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday or friday it's mtp daily and we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." and good day. i'm brian williams at msnbc headquarters in new york as we cover pope francis' waning hours on u.s. soil before flying back to the vatican. this is the scene. they have saved a spectacular event for last. this is the family celebration, the final mass for which there were expectations, projections of well over 1 million people.
that's the philadelphia art museum far in the back there. you see the crowd, so many of them have been in place since early this morning. security concerns being what they are. a lot of talk in philadelphia that they went too far, that it was a disincentive to people coming down to center city. in fact, their commuter rail network yesterday posted numbers that were less than expected for yesterday's events. what we're going to see shortly is the pope leaving his overnight stay. a motorcade down a lot like new york if you followed the new york trip, there would be a closed motorcade where he would then switch into the popemobile for an open motorcade so he could be seen by the crowd. we have a number of people helping out our coverage today. chief among them, son of philadelphia, a huge booster of philadelphia. viewers of msnbc yesterday afternoon saw the rare event when he put on his phillies cap
and made public his allegiance to the philadelphia phillies of major league baseball. chris matthews is with us. chris, first of all, give your home city a grade as to how this visit, this prong of the visit, has gone thus far and set the scene for us today. >> well, i think, brian, you nailed it. a notch or two in the extreme on the security front, particularly the concern about crime in philadelphia, but also about the difficulty of getting through the security walls. there's so many of them. my producer and i had to go through many checkpoints of any point of going to the bathroom, to get a bite to eat. to go in and go out is almost impossible. i think there was some of that intimidation, but i must say i was just down this morning, i liked since my days as a print guy to just sit and watch. i watched the people pouring into the terminal. the people that are part of the
white flight for the city over the years, three or four decades after the mid part of the 20th century all leaving the city because of the change in the demographics. they all came back today, pouring back through those train stations that they had been used to going to, their fathers used to go to and their mothers. the city is rejoining itself. for the first time in their lives, white catholics are seeing the fact they're in brotherhood, in sisterhood with brown catholics, with hispanic people. they don't go to the same churches. we know the most segregated time of the week is sunday morning, but today out in the streets of philadelphia as the cameras pan the crowds, you will see a lot of people from latin america. in fact, with the latin american flags flying. you will see a lot of white people from the suburbs who have left the city. what you're seeing is them altogether. i think we're going to recognize, hey, we're all in the same religion here. there's a lot of unity here we didn't think much about. a lot of needed compassion and charity toward the immigrant
populations. another great thing, last thought, the love of the city. the pope, pope francis, has chosen three great cities, washington, new york, and philadelphia to really give his blessing, and i think the city life is really being saluted here. the need for cities for museums like the one behind us here, the great rocky museum. the sense we have to come together for cultural opportunities and big, popular events, cultural and entertainment events and now a religious event. i think that's a big thing to try to reforge the idea of a city in american life and in christian life. >> chris matthews setting the scene for us in philadelphia. we should also point out the weather. it was a matter of some concern as a coastal storm has been working its way up the east coast, but somehow and everyone can theorize as to why, there's a high pressure system just pushing down, keeping the rain out of the big metropolitan
areas of the east coast, at least for now and it looks like it will hold at least for this enormous outdoor mass. the center piece of center city, philadelphia, is the statue of william penn atop city hall and not far from there our own stephanie gosk out among the people. hey, stephanie. >> reporter: hey, brian. we've been standing out here basically all day, and people have and up until about two hours ago they have been filing through here, going to some of the checkpoints we heard chris talking about, and then at one point the lines just got so long that they had to stop people, and that's why you see these people lined up here. no one in these lines has been through those magnetometers we've been talking about so much, and right now we believe there's an expectation in this crowd that the pope is going to come through here, but we have our doubts. because there has not been a security sweep of this area. but this gives you a sense of
the numbers that we've been talking about today and how difficult it was to get these people closer to the pope which is, of course, where they want to be. brian? >> stephanie gosk, we'll check back in with you. also along the planned parade route today is kasie hunt. kasie? >> reporter: brian, we've been here with the people who have been waiting all day long from about 6:00 in the morning. this crowd has been gathering. we've talked to people really from all over the world, from all over the country. we talked to one couple, a pair of catholic school teachers from indianapolis who crafted their own ceremonial pope-looking hats out of the poster board and duct tape and that was enough to get others to come over and take selfies with them. they're in the crowd you were looking at right now. there was a little bit of a problem when the tent they were building all day to cover up the orchestra went up in front of in crowd and they started chanting
take down the tent. they were chanting let the people see the pope. the philly police and the city tweeted that tent is going to come down. the people's pope will be seen by all of these people who have gathered and been waiting. >> kasie hunt, thanks. and when the crowd is this many people deep, a cardboard miter hat might seem like a great idea right up until the people behind you need you to take it off so they can see the passing popemobile and motorcade. throughout the pope's visit to the united states, we have been assisted by bishop robert behren of the archdiocese of los angeles. bish bishop, tell us what you know about this mass and at each stop i have been asking you how the different masses will differ, especially for folks joining us who are non-catholics. >> of course, the pope is following just the readings for the day. so he's not so much choosing these readings to make a special
point. he's offering his reflections on what the church has given to him. you will see today the readings are very much right up the alley of this pope. i don't want to spoil his homily but you will see the readings are very suited to his style and right in his wheelhouse. and, of course, the masses differ just because of the crowd, the height of the solemnity, et cetera. that great mass at madison square garden. this mass is on the grandest possible scale. you will hear a lot of wonderful music. it will be especially sort of high celebration of the litter liturgy. it's a climactic mass. it will be kind of a high point. i would echo what others were saying about the crowd. i was able to walk through the crowd yesterday back to the hotel and people have been sitting for hours and hours to get two seconds of a glimpse of the pope and they were just as happy and joyful as they could be. that really was ed ifying to se.
bishop, you will be with us all day. way tonight come back to you in a moment and talk about what was the news of this day because of the pope's remarks and the reaction to it thus far. but first, let's spend a moment talking about the power, the tactile power, of this pope when he encounters people along the way anywhere in his travels, most especially children and of that group the subset of special needs children. we said here back on friday that it's almost too much to take, these tender, highly emotional moments. there was one yesterday that millions of people have now seen, and my colleague alex witt is with the family in our newsroom just behind us here. alex? >> you know, brian, you talk about the high point of the day, and i think there's probably no liar point in the life of the keating family as we look at this picture of the pope as he is kissing and subsequently
blessed their 10-year-old son michael who is here with us. michael suffers from cerebral palsy having been born prematurely along with his brother christopher at 29 weeks. this is a family who came all the way from elverson, about 50 miles away. you were working this event because you, chuck keating, as the band director for the bishop shanahan high school, you had it perfectly planned. you may have heard chris matthews say the rocky museum. what song were you playing? >> "gonna fly now" the theme from "rocky." >> you were there with your family and then the pope seemingly was passing by you but he sure didn't. >> he didn't. he was driving by, and he gave a thumbs up to the band and all the kids were very excited. they have worked so hard for this event and we're so proud of them, and then as he went by and he was going very slowly and waving and giving thumbs up, the
man who was walking next to him motioned to the pope because the principal of chuck's school had said in spanish one of your children is here. bless him. and the man that was walking next toleaned and in told him and he shook his head and i'm like, oh, my goodness, he's going to stop. he jumped out of the car and came straight for michael, and i was -- i don't remember a few of the seconds. i feel like for a little bit, it was so excited. he leaned over and kissed michael on the forehead and then blessed him, and at that point all i could think of is how do i thank him? what words could i use to thank this man for giving us the greatest honor. >> through your tears we might add. >> through my tears. i just said thank you, thank you, thank you so much. and at that point he looked up at me and he grabbed my hand and gave it a squeeze and then did the same to my husband and then
put his hands back on michael and it was just a beautiful moment and then he moved over and gave a blessing to both the principal and the president of chuck's school who were standing there, sisters regina and maureen, and then left just as quickly as he came. >> and little details of things. i know that you've said, kristin, that the pope has very soft hands. >> he did. he had very soft hands. i was amazed by them. i don't know what to say about it but it struck me as very interesting. >> chuck, how did you keep your composure to continue working. you were directing the band. >> thank good i have a great student director, amy hershey. i couldn't keep myself composed. she composed and she led the group there. >> yeah. i know that michael is nonverbal, but you said that he has been very expressive in the wake of this, kristin. >> he was.
all morning he had been in his wheelchair for an extended period of time which he doesn't normally do. usually within two or three hours we need to move him out because he's uncomfortable, and he had been sitting there for quite a while and was very kind of fidgety and such, and as soon as that happened all of a sudden he had this huge smile and i looked at my daughter and she saw it as well and then that made us cry even more. we just said i think he feels the joy around him and the love. >> what a blessing. >> it was quite a blessing. >> we thank you for sharing your story. it's something as brian was saying, certainly everybody was talking about this moment. millions have seen it and we're so fortunate to talk with the keating family and wish you the best of luck and hope this joy stays with you for quite some time. >> i'm sure it will. >> we are fortunate to speak to the keating family. our thanks to the keating family and to my colleague, alex witt. as the keating family has been talking, you have no doubt seen these live pictures.
the pope has switched into the popemobile. a lot has been said over the past few days about his constitution, his stamina. this is, as we've all said, a grueling schedule for someone half his age, and it's funny the references to his hands. social media was full of it yesterday. you could -- you can read any number of accounts in print of the people he's encounter who had talk about the pope's very, very soft hands and how that adds to the kind of tenderness of the moment, especially when children are involved. this is a tactile head of the catholic church. this is a man who these encounters mean everything to him. we're back into this same kind of familiar looking motorcade. these pictures are being taken
from a flat bed truck, two vehicles in front of the popemobile so that accounts for the rockiness, the shakiness sometimes. he appears to be in very good humor, high energy. picking sections of the crowd to wave to. our control room is ready to let me know when and if the pope's motorcade passes by any of our correspondents on the route. these are great pictures. in the studio with us, they have
been with us throughout, dr. elizabeth lev, art historian at duquesne university's italian campus in rome. when you hear that, if you say to yourself, what a good gig that is, you would be correct. she also happens to know just about everything about the papacy and this pope, and she has that in common with our senior vatican analyst, papal y biographer and author george weigel. they're both with me. doctor, it's been a long journey for just a few days. i feel like there have been so many encounters with people, so many different venues, so many opportunities to see this man. it's too bad he has to limit his travels to these three u.s. east coast population centers. >> i am constantly reminded of the namesake of pope francis, st. francis of assisi who apparently said preach always,
when necessary use words, and i think these days that pope francis, yes, he has used words, but i think in many ways he's been preaching in his gestures and his outreach, in his embrace, and especially shining light, bringing warmth and love to the people who are excluded. the fear of exclusion, the theme of eradicating exclusion has been constant throughout the visit. drawing together disabled children, convicts, the poor, the immigrants, all into this fold and into this warmth has been one of the greatest preaching moments of this trip. >> george, the news of this day made by this man had to do with the sex abuse scandal in the church. it was not enough for at least one victim's rights group, but for a lot of catholics it at least gets the conversation out
there and continued. >> brian, that conversation, as you know, has been going on for 13 years now to the point where i think we can say that the catholic church is the safest environment for children in the country because the bishops have taken with great seriousness the terrible mistakes that were made in the past. i thought what was most interesting about the holy father's meeting with the victims of abuse is that those victims were not simply abused by clergy. some of them were abused in their own families, which as we all know is tragically the locus of the great majority of this horrible crime. others were abused by teachers. so i think the pope in his subtle way was reminding all of us, this is a societal plague that has to be addressed. that remarkable conversation
that alex just had with the keating family, it seems to me to tie this pontificate to its two predecessors with which it's often contrasted. there really are some connecting threads here. john paul ii and benedict xvi were constantly cautioning us against dividing the world into useful and useless people, and what pope francis is living out is the catholic church's conviction that there are no disposable people. everybody counts and the church's pro-life concerns do not stop at birth. they extend throughout every stage of human existence. so full marks to him for underscoring that central part of keeping our civilization going. >> and, george, i know the people watching and listening, you know, i don't have your
knowledge of the workings of the u.s. catholic church. i can only hope you're right about the safety and integrity of the u.s. catholic church where children are concerned in this country and the changes that have been put in place and the awareness that's been heightened over these past 13 years. just a note here about what we're looking at, you saw the motorcade got a little tight there for security's taste and an agent or two hopped out of the suv behind the pope. now he will be dismounting, getting out of the popemobile. i believe they are -- and if chris matthews is with us and can hear me, chris, are they -- >> yes, brian. >> is he around back of the stage now? >> no. he's still down part of the loop. he's down a loop going away from the stage, down the parkway towards center city, and then after making the turn -- two
turns, i believe, he's about to begin his return back up this direction. and he's out of the popemobile now. he's going out to meet with people here. this is something that hant been plan -- hadn't been planned. i noticed the secret service jumping and running to catch up with the popemobile to add to the escort. there are a number of priests joining minimum now as he heads over to the side of the street there. we don't know what this is yet. >> and, chris, when we hear a roar go up in the crowd, is all of this being projected on big screens? >> yes, it is. in fact, last night we were not in the best position -- i think he's back at the cathedral. yeah, at the cathedral of saints peter and paul. something happened in front which you can't see. it's behind all this bunting. again, as i said, it's down below at the bottom of the park
way near city hall, but there's so many people here. this is -- as i said, the suburbs have come in for the city today, and to answer your question, the best locations were 100 feet in front of the big screens. the big screens all along the parkway and also down around city hall they had a giant screen there on south broad. so people were accumulating themselves in all kinds of place this is center city to watch the pope and as i said, the better pictures were in some cases up by the screens and not near the stage itself. >> we're going to find out more about this stop, however impromptu by the pope. all i know is the paper strims we see all carry prayers and the pope is now headed back to the popemobile, but one of our correspondents had a very good vantage point on this visit. claudio lavanga is christening
to us. claudio, what can you report? >> reporter: i'm on the 16th floor of a hotel looking down. i can see the pope clearly. he started in front of the basilica of staaints peter and paul. there was pieces of paper hanging. this is called -- it invited a lot of people to write down intentions rather than wishes and just tie them up and then other people would go there and move them. the whole idea is that intentions are easier to come true when other peoples help out. now, they were hoping that the pope would bless the art exhibition. i think their wish just came true, at least that one wish just came true, and the pope just came back on the popemobile as you can see and he's just leaving that art exhibition now. >> he appears to be animatedly telling a story to those in the rear of the vehicle.
his energy seems very high today, and it's kind of fun to watch his security teams, the u.s. secret service among them, have to keep up with him, and that is exactly what just happened. there was just a little bit of a narrow chokepoint for the motorcade there, and thanks to claudio and chris matthews' descriptions and this overhead picture, look at the people on the move to try to just get a glimpse as he comes by these intersections. motorcade turning right. chris, it's been a while since i lived in center city, philadelphia, so fill in the blanks here. that is one spectacular flower covered garbage truck that is being used as a barricade there. >> they're all over. you could catch the scent late last night of the trucks. they were out to actually clean up after yesterday because the crowd here left this place in some disorder last night, and
garbage trucks were set up on john f. kennedy boulevard ready to do the good work of cleaning up after last night, and i think they did a great job actually. but, you know, this city is very proud of center city. it's very proud of the beauty of the benjamin franklin parkway built in the 1920s. the two buildings along the parkway, the public library, the free public library which was founded by benjamin franklin and the court building, both modeled after tbuildings in paris. when i was in paris, i said that looks familiar. it's the same as the parkway. there's a french kind of style as there is in washington to the city layout. we're proud of the fact that you come downtown, you see one of the prettiest cities in the country. >> absolutely. and that skyline, chris, we have watched explode over just the past two or three decades. it used to be -- >> right.
>> -- the psfs building was the tallest building other than william penn, and now it's a thoroughly modern big city skyline. >> with the tallest being being our own comcast building which is a scare or rectangular building that dominates the skyline at the top. you're right there, was a rule, a city ordinance, you could not have a building higher than william penn's hat at the top of city hall, and that was, of course, overruled by the city in recent decades so they could have higher buildings, but it was the tallest building in the country in the late 19th century, city hall was. >> a lot of people have wished that the prosperity, the growth, the development would spread across the delaware river to camden, new jersey, routinely called, if not the poorest city in america, one of the poorest cities in america. kasie hunt is along the motorcade route for us. kasie? >> reporter: brian, motorcycles
for the popemobile have just pulled past us with the first indication that the popemobile is about to turn this corner as it approaches the mass site. i guess they seem to be running considerably ahead of the pope himself. we're seeing -- i think you can see the crowd has turned their iphones as far as they can anticipating that the pope is soon going to come into view, but he appears -- we can also see on the jumbotrons to have stopped a little bit short of our location. it looks as though they're handing a baby to him up out of the crowd, brian. >> yes. a child has been handed up to him, received a kiss on the forehe forehead. so many people have had their own discussions about what would you do? the theory of living in the moment as opposed to the reality that most of us now have a
photographic device on our person at all times, and we've seen a lot of talented individuals taking a picture with one hand, reaching out to shake the pope's hand with the other. we've seen people who have passed up the opportunity for a greeting to instead have a picture to remember forever. it's a thoroughly modern problem. what we haven't seen is a lot of people, doctor, who just want to take it in and live in the moment. >> i think about this almost every day as i walk through the vatican moounuseums and you're surrounded by beauty and people who look at it through a screen. it's a question of possessing the moment. for people the understanding of possessing is through a picture. it's something they can look at and look at and look at again and bring it back through the moment. for others it will be the moment when they looked directly into his eyes and they really felt that unvarnished, unfiltered relationship with the pope. it's fascinating watching people
make that interior decision of how they understand and possess a truly beautiful moment. >> and, of course, there are generational differences and i guess different people have different requirements. some want it to live on in memory. there's another baby being brought up to the holy father. his security detail has become adept at these very delicate deliveries over a long distance. >> it's amazing in st. peter's square to watch the children being sort of passed up like this baton up to the front and then sent back to their parents. >> the city does look beautiful and we're just so happy the weather has held. a large area of precipitation has been churning and trying and threatening to make its way north, but how nice that for a million-plus projected people in
this crowd they get a beautiful september afternoon. motorcade has slowed down. you see the pace of the security personnel, kind of a leisurely walking pace. i just can't wait until these children are old enough to see that picture and what happened to them on a september sunday when they were very, very little. >> wow. >> here is another one. >> he seems to really be savoring these last moments with the american people and this is a future generation. >> handed that one right off like a football.
speaking of football, george, not known for sports coverage among vatican biographers, did tell me that at the half, the philadelphia eagles were beating the new york jets, and you were wondering as you looked at the app on your phone if there was a so-called francis effect in the nfl today. >> they were still winning in the fourth quarter when i checked a moment ago. >> jets are trying to go 3-0. >> chris was talking about paris and philadelphia. there's another city that's very reminiscent of paris, and that is the pope's native buenos aires which was rebuilt in the late 19th and early 20th centuries really along the lines of hausmann's paris and i was wondering if he was feeling a twing of nostalgia for home as he was driving down those broad tree-lined buffaloed there.
brian, there was some concern i know in rome before this trip about how the pope would be received in the u.s. either because of the extraordinary security measures or because people simply didn't know him. >> it seems incredible now. >> it seems absolutely incredible as does, to go back to buenos aires, his transformation. when i saw him in may of 2012 in that beautiful city, he was reticent, almost dour, very intelligent, very incisive, but no sense whatsoever of this public personality. i think we're up to six now on the baby count. this is great. and you have to think within the terminology of the church, this is the grace of office at work
here. something has happened inside his soul to allow him to project as liz was saying a moment ago the divine tenderness in a very, very powerful way. >> all we have to compare it to really in american public life is how presidents have changed before our eyes, how circumstances have changed our presidents, our elected leaders, and, george, people are -- now that they feel they know this man, they're delving back into his life story, and while we're speaking in shorthand today and we can't tell it all, people have heard something about his -- a dark period in his life as a member of the catholic church. what is that and we hope people will read and see more. >> brian, the notion of a dark night of the soul, if you will,
is very deeply embedded in classic catholic spirituality. the two figures that the pope cited to congress from the american catholic world, dorothy day and thomas merton, were both people who felt empty in their souls at many periods. in the case of then father jorge mario bergoglio that came when he was sent to once was described to me as where god left his backpack. it was really nowheresville. and he had revitalize his sense of commitment. he was brought out of that by john paul ii and that's another
connection. no john paul ii, no pope francis. john paul ii was told by the cardinal in buenos aries, this is someone the church needs in a prominent place, and john paul ii gave him that opportunity. >> we watch these pictures, and two things are evident. we're not saying that security is relaxed compared to other stops on this trip. nothing is relaxed about security. look at how many deep they are. look at the initial layer of pennsylvania state troopers, philadelphia police, and then plaincloth plainclothes but also look at the zeal of the people knowing this is their last chance. they've traveled and hours and day this is some cases. it's clear the pope has also said to his security detail i want to see children and now people -- there's another --
babies are being held aloft. >> in the dugout and ready to come out. >> it's like the lion king and the simba position hoping the holy father will summon them to his converted jeep, but it's really lovely. it is lovely. we saw a moment ago people have taken to trees. there were people on street lights. there were people on traffic signals clinging to the base trying to get a good view all of which, of course, makes the security detail nervous. here is another little girl. early on in the trip a little girl carried a message about immigration, her own family's story. we usually get to know these children because news media go back and pursue them and ask them about the encounter and what they were carrying. george, i guess for civilians, for catholics and non-catholics,
the visual difference between benedict and francis could not be more striking in terms of the -- for lack of a better word, their outward temperament. >> that's obviously true, brian. pope benedict xvi was a very shy man, is a very shy man. he was a university professor. he did not seek the limelight. he accommodated himself to it from april 2005 until his abdication, but you could almost sense that he was trying. it just wasn't as natural. and with papa francesco as cardinal dolan kept calling him in new york, there's just a remarkable desire to warm
hearts. it's not that benedict xvi didn't want to do that, he's an extremely affectionate man, but pope francis is a heart warmer in the best sense of the term, and, you know, when he was talking to the bishops of the united states, the bishops who were at this world meeting of families from all over the world earlier today, a very interesting statement, that the impoverishment of our times is often loneliness. you know, we're surrounded by busyness and noise and selfies and all this other stuff, but there's a deep loneliness in post-modern 21st century civilization, and i think he's inviting us to break out of that and discover each other, discover unity and diversity, and that's a great thing. >> you hear the phrase online,
community, these days and often it can mean the very opposite. it's not something you can hold onto. it's the absence of a real in-person, tactile, personal community. dr. lev, anne thompson had one of the great lines right after the mass in madison square garden when she said on msnbc that if cardinal dolan wasn't cardinal, he'd be mayor of the city of york. he does have that gene, and these trips also make for an opportunity of the cardinal of these cities to show off the place and squire around the pope. >> it also is a wonderful opportunity for the cardinal, considered this important figure within the structure of the catholic church, to be out among the people. i mean, to really be more than
just the boss of the big fancy church on fifth ave. the mayor analogy is a good one because these visits allow a deeper insertion into the capillaries of the city which is what the job of the bishops is. >> you saw that shot of the pope just passing by our camera location. that was kasie hunt's location on the parade route. kasie, what was that like? >> reporter: well, brian, i mean, for the people that we watched their faces as he passed by just feet from them. i mean, this is really -- we talked about the security, this is in many places i have been over the course of the last week the closest the crowds have been able to get to those popemobile. they have often been behind a second set of barriers or across a wide street but he was a few arm's lengths away. he moved quickly past us but there was one person across from us holding a sign that says god bless our eagles.
that's a theme we've heard over and over again today in this crowd. they're not off to a great start in the nfc east, but they are currently leading the jets 24-7, brian. so maybe a little bit of divine intervention there for this city's football team. >> well, i had heard today their record lifetime, the eagles were 9-0 against the jets. the jets were looking to emerge from today -- sorry about this, folks, but it is sunday in america -- 3-0, and so this, you know, i'll call it as george weigel branded it, the francis effect. and to kasie hunt's point, some of these motorcade routes in philadelphia do seem more intimate as if people are allowed a little closer on both sides of the popemobile than some of the venues we saw in new york i'm thinking most notably of central park. i think the distances were wider.
look at that beautiful city. chris matthews, what can you see where you are? >> well, the pope just passed by here, and he's approaching the art museum right behind where he's going to say mass and, of course, you know, to capture the true philadelphia spirit, all you have to do is think of "rocky." rocky is this kid from an italian neighborhood, hard luck life, club fighter, not getting anywhere. he gets his title shot. he goes the distance against apollo creed, the champ. chance of a lifetime. he lives up to it. that's the city. it wants its break. it hasn't had a lot of them. sports have been brutal ever since the gee whiz kids of the '60s when they blue the pennant race when they had it made. there's so much of that with the eagles. if you go to an eagles game, you think you're at a roman coliseum rebuilt.
a lot of anger, a lot of terror if you will because the importance of winning is everything. this city needs a victory. it's always on the edge of being disappointed and i think this weekend it was not disappointed. this was a 100% success and the city will never stop brag being it. >> chris matthews, who can be counted on to defend and protect his home turf of philadelphia at every turn. one of the things we love about him. i'm told we have established telephone contact with sister mary scullion who was able to exchange some words with the pope on that impromptu stop we saw when he got out of the popemobile. sister, tell us what that was all about and what did he say? >> brian, we're just overwhelmed with joy. pope francis stopped by the grotto where over 100,000 people have left their struggles, their
prayers, in front of mary which is a special devotion to the blessed mother that pope francis has and pope fron sancis stoppe here. he blessed them, he asked all of us to pray for him and we're so grateful to pope francis to t archbishop chaput who asked the pope to stop. it was just a very moving and joyful and we're just full of gratitude to pope francis. >> sister, tell us for -- especially for non-catholics watching when they hear this unlikely title, mary undoer of knots, what is the short version of that story? >> the short version of that story, brian, is that many of us pray to the blessed mother for her intercession to god for some
special needs and prayers and struggles because jesus had a very hard time refusing his mother whenever she asked for anything as we all do. so, you know, you pray to the blessed mother if you have some very, very special intention and when pope francis was a young man, he had some challenges and struggles, and he prayed to mary undoer of knots to help loosen his knot and he's made that devotion ever since. >> thank you for that, sister. i'm going to assume from your ak accident you're a life long philadelphia philadelphian, sister. >> i am. yes, like chris matthews and yourself. born in philadelphia. it's a great place to be from. >> this must be right up there with the best days you have ever had in that city. >> absolutely. it's a grace moment for our city, for our church, and for our country. >> sister mary scullion, thank you. congratulations to you. this is a great time of joy for you and the folks you work with and the folks you help on a
daily basis thanks to the visit of pope francis to philadelphia. this is -- >> thank you, brian. god bless you. hope to talk to you soon. >> thank you, sister. bye-bye now. this is the orchestra where there was a tent set up in case the weather turned inclement. the people of philadelphia were not going to have it. yes, we're looking at you. a sleeping little chide ther-- d there. as the pope gets ready to change into his vestments for mass george, we're listening to a little music, all of which is being broadcast in that local area around the mass. look at the distances we're talking about here though. >> might be a good moment to say a word about the pope's host here in philadelphia. >> please. >> archbishop charles caput. a native of kansas. he's the second native american
to be made a bishop in the catholic church in the united states. he's potawatomi tribe, very proud of it. archbishop of denver before coming to philadelphia. and this has been for him a hoped for occasion to really re-energize the local church in southeastern pennsylvania. his previous archdiocese in denver was really remade by the experience of world youth day in 1993, and he brought that memory to the enormous amount of planning around wond work that o planning this visit, and he seems to have done a simply magnificent job and it's been great to see him and the pope having such a good time together during these days in philadelphia. >> that's a great vista back of
the skyline behind the conductor, his point of view looking back at center city philadelphia just as the vista showing the alter, the cross with the art museum in the background. among our team members in philadelphia watching this all, bishop robbed barron of the archdiocese of los angeles. so far so good. >> let me add something about the mary undoer of knots. that's what i was so moved to hear, that was a painting from the baroque area that middle an aged jorge mario bergoglio saw during a difficult time in his life, the dark night of the soul he was going through. they say he went to the airport in frankfurt and he watched with longing the planes flying to argentina. he was going through a difficult time in his career as a jesuit. he felt very much the
intercession of mary the undoer of knots. when he became a bishop he caused that to be his holy card and caused it to be a devotion through argentina. he was encouraging philadelphians to present the knotty difficulties of their lives to the blessed mother. that was very important for him as a sort of knotty moment of his own life. >> also, let's not forget what many people have called the power, quite literally the power of the pulpit during this visit. by extension now everyone watching this has picked up that knowledge, may know something today they didn't know yesterday. dr. lev is an art historian. you must be in disbelief that news coverage has actually veered into your lane. >> i'm so excited. plus it was a baroque painting which is my field specialization and, of course, it's our principal decoration in st. peter's. i think images, this is something the church has known from the very beginning, that sometimes images speak very,
very strongly, and this image of the knot, something that a snarling in one's life where one feels helpless, unable to extricate one's self from a situation of sin, loneliness, exclusion. looking for a exclusion, looking for a way that one can't undo it one's self, looking beyond that. in that respect, it leads us to what the end game of all of this visit is, which is the year of mercy, coming up at the end of a few months. the pope would have visited africa, asia, north america, south america and europe and he will have called all those people together to undo their knots in the holy year. >> that is quite remarkable, again, for a 78-year-old man with one lung, for someone half his age, it is grueling you know, there's nothing like the
long wait that the security that we've been talking about in philadelphia, all these cities, it comes down to a moment when the motorcade passes, when the people who gathered in philadelphia today get to see the pope pass by as the pope just did at kasie hunt's location. casey, i understand you have a guest for us. >> we're talking to father john o'neill now. you're from dublin originally. you say you waited for six hours? >> six hours. a huge crowd, very patiently. but the mood was very wonderful. they were all praying for the pope or their families. >> reporter: what was it like to be so close to the pope? >> it was very exciting to see him in the flesh. he's extremely challenging as a pope and just to see the moment was worth it. >> reporter: what's it like? what's the difference that pope francis has made for you in your ministry? >> well, i was an
obstetrician/gynecologist before i was a priest. this pope is totally missionary about prisoners, about migrants, young people who are in trouble, just to get out there and help them. so he's got us moving and he's extremely provoking in a very healthy way. >> and it sounds like you have lost your ticket but have the number. he's still waiting to get in across the street and asks for prayers to help him get over there, brian. >> kasie hunt, thank you very much. >> george, what do you make of a story like that, a former obgyn turned priest? >> there's a lot of them in this church, brian. for the moment, he may even be here, i'm not sure, my friend, archbishop of lithuania, grew up
in ucla, worked at hewlett packard for years and felt the hand of god and now he's archbishop of lithuania. the other day when we were singing the litany of the saints, that's really the family album and that's good to be reminded of. that's what the church is for. >> george, all we've heard about, parish level, national level, crisis in the priesthood, crisis in the priesthood. has that led to more nontraditional routes to the priesthood? >> actually, it's done the opposite in that you now see a lot of young men entering the
seminary, as used to be the case 20 years ago, 22, 23 straight out of college, american seminaries today are fuller than they've been since the late 1960s. perhaps we could bring bishop barron in here. he was commenting the other day that these are the guys who are coming in under the pressure of this abuse scandal. they want to come in and straighten this out. >> bishop barron? >> for the past few years i've interviewed every guy that's come here. i ask this many what's it like to discern the priesthood in the worst crisis in our history? most of them say it encouraged them, they want to be part of the solution. these guys now, you saw them,
they were discerning priesthood at a time it was a very dicey business. often their parent and friends were opposed to. as george has pointed out, curiously the numbers have gone up. so it's an extraordinary thing. it's probably not quite the francis effect yet, it takes time. the john paul ii effect didn't happen for maybe 10 or 12 years after his pontificate began. but it's an encouraging time for the seminaries and the priesthood. >> am i correct that it's a nine-year commitment in seminary? >> for most guys it would be a six year after college. most of them do two years after pretheology. a jesuit would have six years of training. >> so do you think parishes across the country -- i guess
i'm trying to figure out all the stories all of us in news media did about priest shortage, priest crisis. do you think the first wave that that brought in to the priesthood is out and serving in the field? >> i think so. there still is -- we should say there still is a crisis of numbers in the priesthood. we could probably ordain twice what we're ordaining now to keep up with those that we're retiring and passing away. but the numbers did not plummet. we thought in the wake of the scandal the numbers would plummet but they really didn't. how do you read the tea leaves there? it's a good time for the priesthood. the young guys want to be part of the solution. they are well aware of the problem. as george said very well, for the past 13 years the church has been addressing the sex abuse
scandal institutionally. trust me these young guys are very, very aware of the situation. what i find wonderful watching pope francis reach out literally and touching these young kids, there's something encouraging about that because a lot of us became much more reticent in the wake of the scandals. i think he's showing us this beautiful christ-like outreach. thank god. >> thank god indeed. and we are waiting for the mass to get under way. we are left to look back at these beautiful, beautiful pictures from the motorcade route through a boulevard city of philadelphia today. we're going to fit in a break here so we can bring you the mass in its entirety. our live special coverage continues just on the other side.
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we are back. our live coverage continues on an enormous event on his trip to philadelphia. and it's the closing hours of the visit of pope francis of the united states, washington, new york, philadelphia and one of the highlights of today's motorcade, i was just told we watched the pope bless ten infants along the way today. now, that would be a great journalism project, to track their lives, see what becomes of all of those children as they become adults. on the left side of your screen, the scene from the enormous stage and altar where mass will be said. it's just in front of the philadelphia art museum. dr. elizabeth lev is here with us in our studio, george weigel is here with us in our studio,
looking on, long-time, full-time philadelphia booster chris matthews and bishop robert barron of the los angeles archdiocese. chris matthews, set the scene as we start to get under way here. >> this is as you were saying earlier today, this is the crescendo of the trip. originally the pope came for this conference on the family, which has been meeting in philadelphia in this area. this is the solemn mass they're going to celebrate here. it's going to be sort of the finale, if you will, of this amazing trip through washington, new york and philadelphia now. and this of course the mass, which is the heart of catholic practice. it's our sacrament. by the way, brian, this mass will count for those of us here. i don't know whether it will count for those of you watching but certainly it will count for those of us here as meeting our
sunday obligation. but of course this is it for us catholics. this is the mass. it's very familiar to all of us. it has more music to it, of course, when it's solemn. you have the great music of the history of the church all combined now for us and it's going to be a moment of quiet reflection and beauty, especially with the wonderful camera work. you really do see the best design of the city for a great sell brace. this is what cities are designed for. >> for the folks listening to our coverage on siriusxm radio, it's about within a couple degrees of 70 -- kind of a bright september day, not direct sunshine, a little bit of a breeze there under an enormous ceiling, almost like an airplane hangar over this altar and the
people along the ben franklin parkway watching on big screens. ann thompson has covered this pope, covered the vatican for us. before we turn it over to the mass, as we see the incense now you're down along what was the parade route and now people turn their attention to the altar. >> they will. i want to point out something. there are about ten priests over here who are still waiting to get to the altar. we are all frozen in place and there are people with tickets to this mass who can't get there because security won't let us cross the road yet, even though the pope is now on the altar. it's just one of the many frustrations people have felt in this think with the whole security operation. it has been in some ways almost oppressive to the people who want to come and be here and celebrate and see this pope. brian? >> ann thompson, giving voice to
this. we've heard a lot about it over the past two days. security has really cut center city philadelphia in half. and led to a lot of dead zones really, some businesses have had to close, other businesses are being told to put signs in their windows to remind people they're open. it's all because of this. of course we want no harm to come to pope francis, certainly not while he's on u.s. soil. and it's all to make sure this is a safe gathering. at this said, peel probably follow along on with the mass itself. >> in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit. peace be with you. >> and in your spirit.
>> amen. [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: the lord came down in the cloud and spoke to moses, taking some of the spirit that was on moses, the lord bestowed it on the 70 elders and as the spirit came to rest on them, they prophesized. now two men, one named eldad and the other medad, were not in the gathering but had been left in the camp. they had not gone out to the tent yet the spirit came to rest on them also and they
prophesized in the camp. so when a young man quickly told moses eldad and medad are prophesizing in the camp, then joshua, son of none, who from his youth had been moses' aide says, "moses, my lord, stop them." but moses asked them, are you jealous for my sake would that all the people of the world were prophets, would that the lord might bestow his spirit on them all. ♪ ♪
from the workers, you have vested your field are crying out and cries of the harvesting have reached the ears of the host. you have lived on earth in luxury and pleasure, your fat r father, your heart for the day of slaughter. you have condemned, you have murdered the righteous one. he offers you no resistance. ♪ ♪
demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us ♪ jesus replied do not prevent him ♪ there is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name ♪ who can at the same time speak ill of me ♪ for whoever is not against us is for us ♪ anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink ♪ because you belong to christ amen ♪ i say to you we surely will not lose his reward ♪ whoever causes one of these
little ones who believe in me ♪ to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone ♪ were put around his neck and he were thrown into the sea ♪ if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off ♪ it is better for you to enter into life maimed ♪ than with two hands to go into gahana, into the unquenchable fire ♪ and if your thoughts cau-- fo
causes you to sin, cut it off ♪ it is better for you to enter into life crippled than with ♪ two feet to be thrown into gahana ♪ and if your eye causes you to sin, block it out ♪ better for you to enter into the kingdom of god with one eye ♪ than with two eyes to be thrown into gahana ♪ where there does not die and the fire is not quenched
which stir us with enthusiasm. in the first reading joshua tells moses that two members of the people are prophesizing, speaking god's world without mandate. in the gospel john tells jesus that the disciples had stopped someone from casting out evil in the name of jesus. moses and jesus both rebuke those closest to them for being so narrow in their thinking. would that all could be prophets
of god's word, would that everyone could work miracles in the lord's name. jesus instead encountered hostility from people who did not accept what he said and did. for them jesus' openness to the honest and sincere faith of many men and women who were not part of god's chosen people seemed intolerable. the disciples in their part acted in good faith but the temptation to be scandalized by the freedom of god, who sends
rain on the righteous and unrighteous alike, bypassing broureaucrac bureaucracy, officialdom and inner circles threatens the authenticity of faith, hence it must be vigorously rejected. once we realize this, we can understand why jesus' words about causing scandal are so harsh. for jesus, the truly intolerable scandal consists in everything that breaks down and destroys our trust in the working of the
spirit. our father will not be outdone in generosity and continues to scatter seeds. he scatters the seeds of his presence in our world, for love consists in this, not that we have loved god but that he loved us first, that love gives us a profound certainty, we are sought by god. god waits for us. it is this confidence which makes disciples encourage, support and nurture the good things happening all around them. god desires for all his children
to take part in the feast of the gospel. do not hold back anything that is good, instead help it grow, jesus says. to raise doubts about the working of the spirit or to give the impression that it cannot take place in those who are not part of our group or who are not like us is a dangerous temptation. not on does it block conversion to the faith, but it is a perversion of faith.
faith opens a a window to the presence and working of the spirit, and it shows us that like happiness, holiness is always tied to little gestures. whoever gives you a cup of water in my name, jesus says a small gesture will not go unrewarded. these are little gestures that we learn at home, gestures that we learn in the family and that get lost amid all the other things that we do daily but they make each day different. these are the little gestures done by mothers, by grand mothers, fathers and grandfathers, by children and siblings. they're little signs of
tenderness, of affection and compassion. these are the little gestures of a warm supper we look forward to at night, of an early lunch or breakfast awaiting someone who gets up early to go to work, they're the gestures at home like a blessing before we go to bed or the hug after we return from a hard day's work. love is shown by little things, by attention to those small daily signs which make our life always feel like we're at home. faith grows when it is practiced and it is shaped by love. that is why our families, our
homes are true domestic churches. these are the right places for faith to become life and for life to grow -- for faith to grow in life. jesus invites us to not hold back these little miracles. instead he asks us to make them grow and go through life as life presents itself, to go through all these little signs of love as signs of his own living and active presence in our world. this action that we were invited
to participate in leads us to ask ourselves how are we trying to live this way in our homes, in our societies? what are we doing to live this way in our homes, in our societies? what kind of world do we want to leave to our children? this is a question we cannot answer alone. it is the spirit that challenges us to respond as part of the great human family. our common house can no longer tolerate sterile divisions. the urgent challenge of protecting our home includes the
concern of bringing all of the human family together in the pursuit of sustainable and integral development. for we know that things can change. may our children find in us models of communion, not of division. may our children find in us men and women capable of joining others in bringing to full flower all the good seeds which the father has sewn. pointedly, yet effectively, jesus says if you then who are evil know how to give good gifts
to your children, how much more will the heavenly father give the holy spirit to those who ask him? how much wisdom there is in these few words. it is true that as far as goodness and purity of heart are concerned, we human beings don't have much to show, but jesus knows that where children are concerned, we are capable of boundless generosity. and that's why he reassures us, if only we have faith, the father will give us his spirit. we christians, the lord's disciples, ask the families of the world to help us.
many of us are here participating at this celebration and this is in itself something prophetic, a kind of miracle in today's world. this world tired of inventing new divisions, new forms of brokenness are disasters. would that we could all be prophets would that all of us could be open to miracles for
the sake of your own family and of all the families of the world and i'm talking here about the miracle of love. and in this way overcome the scandal of a narrow, petty love, mistrustful, closed in on itself and impatient of others. and i leave you with a question, a question for each of you to answer because i said impatient. in my own home do we shout or do we speak to each other in love and tenderness?
that's a good way of measuring our love. how beautiful it would be if everywhere and even beyond our own borders we could appreciate and encourage this prophecy and this miracle. let us renew our faith in the word of the lord, which invites our families to this openness. it invites all those who want to share the prophecy of this covenant man and woman, which generates life and reveals god, that he help us to participate in this prophecy of peace, of
tenderness and of family kindness, that he help us to participate in the prophetic gesture of caring tenderly, patiently and lovingly to care for our children and our grandparents. anyone who wants to bring into this world a family which teaches children to be excited by every gesture which is aimed at overcoming evil, a family which shows that the spirit is alive and at work will encounter and find our gratitude and appreciation.
regardless of what people, religion or region to which they belong. may god grant all of us to be prophets of the joy of the gospel, of the gospel of family and of the love of family, to be prophets as the lord's disciples and may god grant us the grace to be worthy of this purity of heart, which is not scandalized by the gospel. may it be so.
you our lord by the working of the holy spirit. from age to age you gather people of yourself so from east to west a perfect offering may be made to the glory of your name. therefore, oh lord, we humbly implore you make holy these gifts we have brought to you for consecration that they may become the body and son off your lord, oh jesus christ, at whose command we celebrate these mysteries. from the night he was betrayed, here himself took bread and giving you thanks he said the blessing, broke the bread and gave it to his disciples sayi
recognizing the sacrificial by whose death you will to recognize yourself filled with his holy spirit, may become one body, one spirit in christ. may he make of us an eternal blessing, an eternal offering to you so that we may obtain an inheritance with your elect, especially with the most blessed environment in virgin mary, mother of god and in your presence we rely for unfailing health. may this sacrifice of our reconciliation we pray, oh, lord, advance the peace and salvation of all the world. be pleased to confirm in faith
and charity your pilgrim church on earth with your servant francis, our pope, and charles our bishop, our clergy and the people you make our own. listen graciously to the prayers of this family whom you have summoned before you in your compassion, merciful father, gather to yourself all of your children scattered throughout the earth. to our departed brothers and sisters and to all who were pleasing to you at their passing of this life, give kind admittance to your kingdom. there we hope to enjoy forever
i don't know what percentage they hope to get to as the crowd stretches for, as we've seen, miles really. the final mass of his u.s. vi t visit. those lucky enough to be visiting the vatican this time of year could very well see the papal motorcade arrive there in time for breakfast tomorrow morning. he'll be flying across the atlantic nighttime our time tonight. there you see communion being handed out to a crowd 20 deep at
the barricade. bishop robert barron of the archdiocese of losses will among those watching with us. bishop, help me with some dates here. when did the catholic church chang the rule and allow communion to be handed to participants in mass and when was the let us offer each other the sign of peace, when did that become part of the fermament of mass? >> the exchange of the sign of peace has been in liturgy.
it's become much more general as an offering of peace among the faithful. it's a beautiful part of the mass. i've been very struck, still going by our stations here are the umbrellas. there must be hundreds and hundreds of priests distributing communion. how much they can reach, i don't know. at the vatican they try to reach the 300,000 who come for the big masses there. it's a heroic effort to get to so many. >> it was a beautiful scene to see the sign of peace being exchanged. it really is something that worked as it was intended. it gets people to turn around, greet the people in front and behind them and alongside them and i just can't imagine it going on simultaneously with all those people.
>> it was exchanged very happily here in the nbc booth. there was quite a happy exchange of the sign of peace here. >> chris matthews is alongside you in philadelphia. chris, what a day for this city to shine. >> yes. and i think as you and i are well aware working in a general population in the media, we know a lot of people who are christian and nonchristian and i think there was a message in the sermon today, the homily about that which grabbed me because this really is a conference on the family, not just the catholic family. it makes the point here anyone who wants to bring into the world which teaches children to be excited at every gesture of overcoming evil that shows the spirit is alive and at work will encounter our gratitude whatever the family, people or religion
they belong. you always believe in the faith of your religion and that would be the case here as well but what the holy father is saying is the values that we share as catholic christians is a value we hope to have others share with us. if we do, we're going to appreciate it and have gratitude for it. i thought that was very consistent with the message and i hate to use this phrase "our jewish friends" because they are our friends and they are jewish. and they really do like our pope and i think they haefrd something from him during that sermon. >> chris, that is a terrific point. i was sitting here thinking the same thing, that there were elements for quakers, for buddhists, christians and jews and also atheists and agnostics
when he talked about small gestures around the family home. i thousand that was maybe the more useful and user friendly of the homlies in this country. >> and we know the value of families, the miracle goes on. >> absolutely right. george wiegel, i wonder if you sure our opinion about that homily. >> that was a wonderful homily. the pope is under a lot of pressure, particularly cultural pressure throughout the world. he picked up an ancient when he referred to the family as a domestic church.
the church, as the catholic church explains it, families are domestic churches. and it's there that young people learn how to be the missionary desiisciples that pope francis calling them to be. he also wants to remind us that families are the first school of freedom. we learn in the family how to be civil, tolerant, decent human beings. therefore when we talk and use that phrase the basic unit of society, there's something really deeply important about all of that. >> dr. lev is here with us in the studio, dr. elizabeth lev. you and i were talking about how beautiful the music has been, not just today but through this whole trip. >> it's been very varied as well, there's an amazing
universality in the different ways, more modern, more traditional, which actually reflects this papacy. we tend to think of pope b benedict to be the -- >> they did come all the way from notre dame. waiting to talk to us is kathleen speaker of the hourous is associate professor of american studies at notre dame. professor, we haven't heard from you yet today. i'm wondering what you teak aaky
from this and what you make of this mass so far today. >> i'm standing here on benjamin franklin parkway with chris and bishop barron. there's a sign here that talks about the evolving parkway, how the parkway has evolved throughout the years. i grew up here and think about the parkway with the statue and art museum steps. truly it is transformed today, to have watched the pope drive by, see the excitement and somewhere in those crowds are those nine bus loads of notre dame students. his homily, i agree with what you said, brian. st. ignatius has a saying, said where the manner is ordinary. and i think when pope francis talked about those little miracles, those little surprises that happen in the family, he was thinking of that and thinking of st. ignatius.
this pope has taught us so much about those little gestures, how important they are. it's just been a wonderful experience. >> it truly has. look at these communion stations going out into the crowd. >> there's a philly connection right now, the song that we're hearing was composed for a eucharistic congress here in philadelphia in 1976 and we're heard the hymn composed this week called "sound the bell of holy freedom." i'm just really struck by they're tying together philadelphia very beautifully. and this beautiful song became a standard among catholic parishes the last 30, 40 years. >> george weigel? >> that was the man who became john paul ii's second visit to the united states.
he spent one evening wandering around the seminary where pope francis was living, simply popping in to students' rooms and asking them to tell him about their lives, life in the united states, their challenges. it was one of the ways he began to learn america. >> again, for those joining us on satellite radio who can't see these pictures, this is a vast communion operation under cloudy skies, diffuse sun. i just checked, it's 70 degrees in center city, philadelphia. it's just kind of perfect conditions for this. the city has come together, still getting some complaints and reports of choke points, security, people trying to still move around.
checkpoints are kind of a combination of secret service and tsa, the airport folks are providing the actual metal detection and security. it's a painstaking process, it's a lot of people to check. it is what so many call the price of a safe society and today a safe event. >> and this of course for catholics is what it's all about. bishop robert barron it might serve our purposes for the many noncatholics watching, plane the rite of catholic communion. >> people are receiving what they consider to be the body, blood, soul of jesus christ. thomas aquinas said that christ is present through his power in all the sacraments but it's
christ himself who is present in this sacrament. i find deeply moving. i'm looking right down from our station here. i see the people surging forward. it's that now 2,000-year-old hunger for jesus christ. you see it on the faces of people. you see as their hands stretch out, it's always a deeply moving moment. to do it now in the presence of the pope, peter, who knew jesus and heard his great sermon on the eucharist, for a catholic it's a moment of extraordinary power, as every mass is but especially the mass with the holy father. >> again, for noncatholics watching, you see some words being exchanged. the celebrant comes forward with the host, the bread wafer and
says "body of christ." the participant says "amen," usually followed by kneeling prayer, if you're in a church. a good many are probably kneeling on their own in this crowd. you see people with children, with families, all kinds of people. and, george weigel, i imagine for something like this, parish priests are called from throughout the region. >> i don't know what arrangement they made for masses in the parishes in the archdiocese of philadelphia. there's an awful lot of priests who must have been here for hours because of the security. you were reflecting on the
diversity of the crowd, breian. i have never been able to track down the source of the quote, some say it's dylan thomas but the catholic church means here comes everybody. and that's what we're seeing here today. everybody. and that diversity is also visible up on the altar. i have noticed the cardinal archbishop of mexico city, cardinal robert serra from guinea in africa, the cardinal from manila. they were all here for the world meeting of families. this is a truly international gathering of the catholic world. last week my wife and i had the pleasure to host visitors from australia who came to celebrate
the family in philadelphia. >> it does bring today about how segregated sunday morning are, depending on your religion you tend to go with groups of your own, but the point chris matthews has been returning to throughout our coverage and that is, to put it indelicately, the catholic church is a place where management is male and the range and file, the people doing so much of the work on the ground every day around the world is female, the nuns. and, chris, it's just going to have to be an ongoing conversation. >> well, the holy father does use the word, it hasn't been picked up in our broadcast yet but i think it's a word you've heard a lot from him, especially the first day or so, which is dialogue. and i think he wants the conversation to begin. we don't know how long he's going to last, this pope.
he's an older man. we hope it's a long time. we all do. because we want the conversation to go on and there are words that have to be discussed and the role of women is just going to have to be discussed. there are certain historic obstacles that probably will remain there but the role of women i think is going to have to grow. culturally women want it, men want it. ask yourself who know what is shots the kids have had? who knows the teachers' names, all of them. who knows all the classmates? who knows what the insurance kf covers? the management of the modern home is run by women. who runs our hospitals, runs our schools? catholic women, both religious and lay. so it's just going to come. it's going to emerge, i think,
this pope who comes from argentina, a macho society, is going to be -- he's mentioned it the last couple of days. when you see what he did today with the victims of priest -- of abu abuse, of sexual abuse and other abuse of children, who knows if it was in this schedule. but it's been acknowledged with criticism and applause. you say something, somebody reacts to it, there's a dynamic and then we learn something. and sometimes we reach a better resolution. restore us in mind and body, whose suffer we unite whenever we proclaim his death, forever
and ever. your holiness, your eminences, archbishop pallia and friends who fill the parkway, this has been a week of fellowship and blessing and a papal visit dedicated to the beauty of the family. none of us will ever forget these days for the rest of our lives. there aren't enough words to thank all of you for being here, to share in god's love and to give god the glory for the success of the world meeting of families. but i need to try. philadelphia has a very big heart and it's full today with
gratitude, with confidence in each other as children of a loving god and with hope that today will begin a new spirit in our city and in our church. we owe a huge debt to mayor nutter, governor wolf, former governor corbitt, archbishop palat and his staff and all the state and government workers who helped make this event possible. a special thanks to all of the wonderful donors, sponsors, co-chairs, staff and volunteers who worked tirelessly to bring this celebration too fruition. [ applause ] thanks to all my brother priests
and bishops, religious and all who traveled and sacrificed to be here. and finally, thanks to all of you here tonight, a million and more families who light this parkway and the world with your love. most of all, holy father, thank you for leading us in worship and in the life of the church. thank you for bringing your spirit to our city and to the world. may god bless all of us and may god lift you up in your ministry for many years to come. thank you, holy father. [ applause ]
>> holy father, thank you for being here with us to conclude the world meeting of families in philadelphia. for all of us those here present and all those around the world who have followed us, this beautiful boulevard, benjamin franklin, has become like the road to -- last evening we met you here and you spoke to us of the beauty of family, the hearts of our families very truly
burning within us. and now that we have broken the bread of life at the mass just like the disciples, we recognize th that jesus is truly present among us. he has opened our hearts, our eyes and pushed us to go all over the world to light the fire of love in all the families of the world. here in philadelphia families from more than 100 countries have shared six days that have taught them that the true church is a family people, an extraordinary people of
families, really, really beautiful, terrific people. [ applause ] these people that must be living family love for a more family world, god's dream from the first moment of creation has been to make all peoples into one family, a family reach in diversity like the coat of many colors that jacob gave to his son joseph, a garment made beautiful by the richness of its
different stones and yours. from our meeting here in philadelphia, we have learned that we must make our own this dream of god. yes, god gives us and our families the gift of participating in his dream. after seeing the bishops in october, the jubilee will begin and next december 27, during the feast of holy family, the jubilee of families will be celebrated in all the diocese of the world. the doors of all the cathedrals and shrines will be opened but at same time we must open the
doors of our homes and our hearts, all the doors to welcome our brothers and sisters who are in need of love and medicine. these are the prophecies that all families are called upon to fulfill and in this way each family will become a sanctuary of mercy. from philadelphia the city of brotherly love and sisterly affection, the liberty bell, the family bell is calling families to welcome the stranger, comfort the afflicted and accompany our sisters and brothers in their
difficulties and their joys. holy father, all families here present pledge now to answer that call. [ applause ] and now -- and now, dear families, it is a great joy for me to announce that the holy father has decided that the next world meeting of families will be held in 2018 in dublin, ireland. [ cheers and applause ]
>> the italian archbishop paglia. i'm going to believe that our crew had a heads up on the ireland announcement because they had a quick cut to the flag of ireland. hang on one second. >> holy father, the acceptance is the first step on our pilgrim journey to dublin and the great people of families, we tread that pilgrim road with you. now we will be with you in spirit as you attend to rome
where in a week's time the senior bishops will begin. we pray for you and all the fathers, share with them the joy and the dream of these people of families. yes, in these days we are said -- families to bring the gospel of love as a sign of the five families from five continents will each receive from you 100,000 copies of the gospel of luke that they will distribute to the poor of their
own cities. havana for the americans, marseilles for europe. in addition, one more family has come here to philadelphia from damascus in syria. this family will go back home next week, but they don't want to go back empty handed. they, too, will have the gospel to give to families who live in the area of bombardment. but we also want to give them what we have collected at this mass from the thousands of generous families you see in front of you, that money will be
used to buy heating oil for their houses during the coming five months of winter cold. this gift is a sign of our love and our closeness to these people and for the city that we said the first moment of the mission. may peace come soon to syria and to the whole world. that's why, holy father, we thank you very, very much for your presence and for your words. thank you, holy father. [ applause ]
>> chris matthews, i was going to say that might be a record for use of the world family. and while archbishop paglia is from a family, he cannot go home to one. he cannot have one and be service to the catholic church and it is still that thing that differentiates and separates the religion from so many others. >> yeah, well, that's a difference. and i think it has found an exception with the episcopalians, the anglican clergy that have come over and become roman catholic, come under the leadership of the pope of rome. so there is an experiment going on right now, if you will, with married priests in the roman right. and we'll see. i mean, i think that is the opening. i mentioned it yesterday just in a purely political sense that if you're going to have ever women
priests, you have to have the first step being married priests because only in the case when you have wives lobbying on behalf of women priests will it ever happen. it's political. it's not too hard to figure. right now in the church you don't have wives to influence husbands, therefore, it's unlikely they would go to a woman priesthood at any time soon, if ever. >> professor, this is so much of your life's work. this pope in popular media certainly has received the reputation, the impression, that he is moving a glacial organization fast forward at the speed of light. but on this one it's a glacial organization. >> these are difficult -- this is a very difficult issue, the issue of women in the church.
i think what pope francis has done -- well, he's been very clear on teaching the -- what he done church. so he's moving forward, perhaps slowly, but i think the issue is not really so much the ordination question, but it's a question of what role can women play? how can women play more of a role, more of a leadership role in roles that don't require ordination? is it necessary an ordained person have all the decision making power at the parish level, even at the universal level? i think pope francis appointed the first women in charge of an pontifical university in rome. equal pay for equal work.
he talked about the need to have the conversation. it's a conversation that many women are eager to have. there's a sense that he's walking in the right direction, and i think we just -- you know, he's used the word dialogue over and over again this this visit. this is one of the most important issues that we as a church can open dialogue on. >> can i jump into this conversation? >> bishop aaron, go ahead. >> deny your major promise, of the question of the priest without a family, when i became a bishop, i got this ring. bishops are married to the people. it's not anti-family. it's a different type of spiritual family. a priest is a family man.
cardinal george, my mentor, said a priest is a married man with children, not a bachelor. >> and teach you with your words. may this ever endure through christ our lord. >> amen. >> and may the blessing of almighty god the father and the son and the holy spirit come down on you and remain with you forever. >> go forth. the mass has ended. >> god bless you, you all.
sure he was fine with because it was the holy father talking. he has reminded everyone to prayer for him. we keep struggling to point out, it runs counter to current self-obsession trends in the united states. where he's not putting himself at the center of things, he is making himself the most modest possible among people, asking to be remembered in prayer, correct? >> we all remember the very first gesture of his papacy, was to bow down and say, "pray for me." that set the tone for the papacy. we didn't know who this man was. the first thing we saw was, "prayer for me." we heard that repeated now. >> george, it has been where he's returned. it's been how he has ended everything. >> it's exactly what he does one-on-one, brian. the two times i've had the privilege to spend an hour with
him in the pontificate, he says, you be sure to pray for me. to which i reply, i will, and you do the same for me if you'd be so kind. there is a agagenuine sense her that i think any pope has, but he manifests it so beautifully, that this is an impossible job. unless you are sustained by that family of which bishop aaron was just speaking, unless you are sustained by the lord himself, the weight is going to crush you. you know too much about what's going on in the world that's not good. you are constantly being asked, as the lord asked peter, pull yourself out, spend yourself more completely and thoroughly. when we see the energy that pope francis has put into this visit,
i think his marvelous efforts to speech english, which he's not really fond of doing and doesn't think he's good at, although i think he's better at it than he thinks he is, this is all part of answering that challenge in the 21st chapter of john's gospel. can you spend yourself out more than the rest of these? >> george, we have dissected, because we've spent the past several days glued to our televisions, looking at it, looking for all signs of everything, one more question about his health. age 78, seemed to lose his balance at times. i guess we all do. what are his known ailments, and what can you add on that discussion? >> well, we've talked a bit about the one lung. he's got a bad back. he's put on a fair amount of weight since he's been in rome,
which is not hard to do there, as you know. i think he took this job, accepted this burden, knowing that he was going to have a short pontificate. he mentioned that on a half dozen times that i can remember. he's not going to be around for a long time. i think he also took the decision right at the beginning that he was going to pull out all the stops from day one. just let it rip. that is what he has been doing here. >> chris matthews, big day in your hometown. final word from you before we cross over to the next hour? >> well, i think it was a great day. also, i thought it changed the tone of american conversation for a while. maybe a week, maybe a month. there's been a lot of crassness in our life, about people being
lou losers, don't make a lot of money, people judged on looks, the evils of immigrants. a lot of bad stuff has gotten on to the airwaves in the last couple of months. i think the pope, in a very nonpolitical way, has restored us to at least a memory of our deepest values, which are based upon charity and compassion. i think that it's a good thing to have a strong memory of that go into our souls for the next couple of weeks, as we once again rejoin the discussion as to who should be our next president. >> chris matthews in philadelphia. as people will go out into the evening, perfectly mild, beautiful september sunday night, having seen something very special. the roads, the parkways, we've watched the holy father drive down today will, for some people, always be sacred because of that. even though, by monday morning's commute, this will return to the hustle and bustle of big city
life in america. it will always be said, when people look toward the art museum, that the alter was right there, the cross was right there. pope francis said mass for, by crowd estimates today, just under a million people. richard lui will be continuing our coverage at the top of the hour. for now and for all our team of contributors and kor respond da -- correspondents, thank you for being with us. ♪ with that, we pick up coverage this hour. brian williams, thank you so much. as we continue with the pope here in the united states, as he
now spends his last two hours making his way to the airport. we will be following with him as he still has a couple of items on his ititinerary. he just finished a mass for some 850,000 people there in philadelphia. with some different tones and some different messages, compared to his previous mass, for instance, in new york city. joining us right now is bishop robert barron, who was with brian the last hour during our coverage of the papal mass. bishop bar bishop barron, you're an nbc papal contributor. the question to you is now that we are at the end of this mass, we've just finished seeing the communion, what was different this time that you saw? >> reporter: i think we saw the
presence of christ. i mean, you see in this man such a fundamental illation of christ, especially in the outreach to the poor, the downtrodden, to the sick. i think it's his personal touch. john paul was a man of great, dramatic power. benedict was a man of ideas. this is a pope of gesture, a pope that sums up the lifestyle of jesus. that just touches everybody. that's what touched me in the course of these days. >> in this mass, several points that were made. perhaps some comments made off script. we didn't hear, of course, everything that was said. what did you make of his message? >> reporter: well, his message throughout this visit has been a message of mercy and compassion. which has been from the beginning of his papacy. he's the face of a divine mercy, which is god's love turned toward the sinner and turned toward the lonely and the forgotten. so that's the message we heard
over and over again. we also heard a message really of freedom. he's here in philly. he's here in this country, which is grounded in freedom. in the congress, he referred to us as the land of the free and the home of the brave. what he did was he grounded that freedom in a sense of god. it's only in prayer, he said, that we are truly equal. it's an interesting remark, isn't it? we're not equal in any other way. we're not equal in creativity, intelligence or power. but in the presence of god, we're equal, which is precisely what thomas jefferson said in the declaration of independence. that's an important part of his message, our freedom is grounded in a keen sense of god. >> jesuit priest here with us in studio. father mcshane, as you were watching the message coming from pope francis today, you were making note before we came on air that you did note a difference, at least in this last message, compared to what
you saw in new york city. >> well, i think there was a difference in the style and presentation, but i would agree with bishop barron, that there is a consistency in everything he said in the course of his visit. today was a day of different episodes, if you will. you had the remarkable encounter with the survivors of sexual abuse. he said that god weeps for what has happened. he apologized from the heart. then he went from there to the prison to encounter, meet with, embrace those who had been on the margins on society and were in prison for what they had done. then third, and this is only a big jesuit thing, he made a stop at st. joe's university, to bless a statue in front of the cap chapel, which was church and synagogue. he reached out to the jews in america after the high holy day. it was interesting, the sequence
of episodes he went through. all the time that was, as bishop barron said, a great emphasis on the mercy and compassion of god himself. then i thought in his homily this evening, he was very interesting in many ways. i was struck by his statement that you should resist the temptation to be scandalized by god's freedom in dealing with people. that is, i think, for catholics, that's a challenge, to give up the idea that there's only one god and we have him. we don't want to box god in. god refuses to be boxed in. >> scandalized? >> scandalized, he said. resist the temptation to be scandalized. >> nbc's stephanie gosk was there throughout the entire mass. stephanie, quiet times, times where they were receiving communion. always amazing to see just the thousands that are able to take communion at one time. one of the earlier estimates was
up to half a million might be receiving communion there. what was it like for all of those behind you? >> reporter: you know, richard, it's interesting because the people that were here were people that actually couldn't make it through the security lines. either they got here too late or they got barricaded in. these are people that wanted to get closer to the pope. i'm sure the people in this crowd, during the mass, didn't think they were going to receive communion. as that is the most important thing for catholics during a sunday mass, it really was quite remarkable for them to make it as far out as they did. you can see the level of appreciation. people who weren't going to get that cherished glimpse of the pope, at least were able to take part in a mass this big and on such a large scale. it is an incredible success for them in that regard, that these people were able to take away something. you could see it in their faces. >> there was the area where 10,000 tickets were gone in 30 seconds. everywhere else. how did they take that, not being able to get into the areas
that they wanted to have access to, as the communion was given? did they do anything in representation, that was symbolic of what was going on closer to where the pope was at? >> reporter: you know, we've been talking a lot about the security this week. one of the tricks with security is to have this -- strike this balance between security and keeping people safe, and allowing people to enjoy the event itself. there are a lot of people that feel like the security, particularly here in philadelphia, was over the top, and there were certainly some people that were frustrated, i have to say, in my experience with people we spoke to, the vast majority of people here felt like they were able to celebrate this in the way they wanted to. have the access they felt was fair. from that perspective, even with the people who had to walk or stand in lines for an extraordinary amount of time, we saw a lot of good natured faces
and smiles. you'd have to think that as a result of that, there was a success from a security perspective. at least from the people that we've been speaking to. >> if who is behind you is any indication, the smiles are still going on very, very strong. stephanie gosk, thank you so much. >> reporter: we've been out here a long time. >> they have. they're still enjoying themselves, as many others are, too. >> reporter: yes, they are. >> thank you so much. i want to go back to bishop barron. bishop, the security that stephanie gosk was talking about is also an indication, perhaps, of some of the formalities that we saw in the philadelphia leg of his trip that might have been different than new york. did you notice any of that in what he did, in the words he used, and in his itinerary? >> the security here in philadelphia, how intense it was and how that related to the pope's words, it certainly was. i mean, i felt in some ways put
off by the hyper security. this pope is eager to reach out. he wanted to establish a very physical contact with people. i think it was probably a source of a little bit of frustration for everybody. we all understand the demands of our time, especially post 9/11. no, it was something i think a lot of us struggled with in philly. >> bishop, did you also notice, i was taking count for a while, the number of babies that he was able to kiss in a short amount of time. >> extraordinary. one of the great, iconic images from this trip, i think, are the babies coming up, almost like an assembly line, to the pope. what a wonderful thing to see. there is, again, christ on display. there's christ reaching out to the poor and the simple. it's a wonderful icon of the catholic church. >> some of his greatest moments were those when he was not on script. at least the ones we've been talking about. for instance, just nine hours ago, when pope francis came to
the first broadcast microphone and we were showing those comments that were mentioned by father mcshane, in which he was mentioning the sexual abuse scandal and the survivors. throughout that time, might you remark that he has been able to reach a certain understanding of the way the american people understand faith and understand religion, in a way that might be different than other countries. he certainly seemed to have all the flairs, if you will, that make us say, he gets us. >> i think he was briefed well on our country and knew the terrible pain of the scandal. when he used the phrase that "god weeps," that really struck me. it says to people that he gets it at the deepest possible level. he has taken very strong steps. the american bishops have, too, for the past 13 years, but this pope has taken very strong steps. i would say this, too, in disciplining bishops themselves. i think he was able to
communicate that very well in the way he usually does, by the use of a provocative gesture and memorable phrase. i, too, was struck by that. >> bishop robert barron, thank you so much. an nbc papal contributor for all of your help with our coverage throughout his six days here in the united states. thank you so much. >> thank you. it was a great pleasure. >> i want to bring in george wigle, our senior vatican analyst. as soon as i was bringing up the number of babies that were kissed, you quietly raised up your fingers because you counted. >> i actually -- somebody said 14 earlier. that was great. this scene, we're seeing here, as well, the drop by at the prayer petitions that had been tied into kind of a rope line. >> right. >> it was really something. above all, the pope is the chief
priest of the catholic church. >> right. >> he's not just the ceo. in fact, the last three popes have kind of down played the ceo role. >> mm-hmm. >> lifted up this priestly role. let me come back to the abuse thing for a second, if i may, because i think there was another gesture there today that we should not miss. that is that the victims the pope met were not simply the victims of bad clergy. they were victims of abuse in their own families, which as i think all the data indicates, is where the most of this horrible business takes place, and they were victims of teachers. in his own quiet way, without denying the horror of what had been a serious problem in the church, he was broadening the societal discussion. saying, look, this is a social plague. not just here, throughout the
world. this ghastly child sex thing going on everywhere. that was important today, as well. i thought he seemed remarkably animated throughout the whole day. >> yeah. >> this has been a tough patch. he was in cuba for three days before coming here. i had hoped -- i said at the beginning of our coverage that this was going to be a learning experience for him. as well as a teaching experience. i hoped he would be encouraged by the vitality of catholic life that he met in this country. that has been on display in a magnificent way. >> right. >> the whole time. >> he was ahead of schedule all day, in fact, moving along briskly this morning. 15 to 20 minutes ahead of schedule. we'll watch as he makes his way to the airport. we expect him around 8:00 p.m. to be departing eastern time. msnbc's casey hunt has been
following the pope. i don't know how many times he traveled by you. certainly today on the way to the papal mass. along the way are a lot of smiling parishioners in the streets, supporters of the pope. >> reporter: richard, good evening. there's so much excitement building for so long over the course of today. many people arriving as early as 6:00 a.m., finally getting the chance to see the pope drive through here and sitting through what everyone has described as a moving mass. i'm here with a family that came from long island. th what did this mean for you, natalie? >> this is an exciting blessing for me and my entire family. i wish that all the people who couldn't have a chance to come to this mass, that they could actually reach the blessing, as well, through watching on tv. this has been a magnificent day.
it's like -- i don't know. >> reporter: you learned to say the rosary when you were really little. >> yeah. >> reporter: what did this mean to you, getting the chance to see this? >> it was a really good blessing, like she said. we were very excited to see him because he's a big role model to everybody and us. we just like -- he's a great person. >> reporter: thank you so much. richard, we should say this family here, we've talked to so many people, many young families, children like these, whose parents speak spanish. this pope has spoken directly to spanish-speaking immigrants here in this country. it's been a major theme of his address. he gave this mass that way today. i think very meaningful for families in a very diverse way across the spectrum today, richard. >> certainly, spanish being the language that pope francis is the most comfortable with. here in the united states, we have 40 million spanish speakers. reaching an entire different
segment of our population here in a different way. casey hunt speaking with one family that represents that. thank you for that. we continue to watch pope francis. he is making his way to the airport. he will have comments when he does get there. then he hops on to a 77 a7 and heads back to rome in a nine hour flight. we'll be right back on msnbc. (wind noise) (road noise) what's happening here... is not normal, it's extraordinary. 291 people, 350 tons, 186 miles per hour... you're not sure what's on the other side to that time after you land. but momentum pushes you forward. you are a test pilot,
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the papal mass, some 850,000, at least it is estimated, in philadelphia downtown. many who couldn't make it in, it was okay. they were still glad to be here, smiles and hands in the air along the way. we continue our coverage here on msnbc of pope francis in the united states. joining us now is kathleen, associate professor of american studies at the university of notre dame. as you were watching pope francis today, giving his message, and you were here with us earlier in the coverage, too, did he seem to at all miss a step or lose any energy? i saw him smiling at the very end. it really did seem that it could have been 9:00 in the morning, as well. >> exactly. it was amazing how he's kept up his stamina all week. the rest of us are all flagging, but he seemed to be -- the only time he looked tired to me was on the stage last night. then he livened up when he gave his comments. he has been just -- his ability
to be present to everybody he meets, all the babies, i'm sure george's count is right. i found that amazing. his stop stops, at the beautifu place where the prayers of the people are, staged by project home, an organization founded by sister marion, who has talked to nbc before, and the slogan is no one is home until all of us are home. that was the message he gave to homeless people in d.c. i think he's been emphasizing the same themes, but really spoke specifically here in philadelphia to this philadelphia context. it's been a marvelous -- i bet he's getting back to -- looking forward to getting back to his room. >> after his sixth day and non-stop throughout each and every one of those, he probably doesn't mind a couple of zs, as we would say. >> right. >> he was here today and
yesterday for the world meeting of family meetings. 400 of the leaders arriving. 300 bishops being addressed from around the world this morning. now, we have the mass that was also linked to that very meeting, something that goes back to 1994. pope john paul ii, when he started this. every three years after, they gather. how was this first meeting, you think, all said, this first meeting in the united states of that very -- that very gathering? >> it was -- we have to remember, that's the reason he's here. all of the events of the last six days would not have happened were not the world meeting of families announced in philadelphia before francis became pope. i think it was great. it was -- i was a little worried in the runup up to this, that would be overshadowed. it was not at all. it was the grand finale. i think it's so fitting that it was announced the next will be in dublin.
when you think about the history of catholics in the united states, so much of it is about the irish immigrants and irish priests and sisters, crossing the atlantic to come here, particularly to philadelphia. the climate, the discrimination they encountered. it's interesting to think about the world meeting of families now traveling the other direction across the atlantic ocean, back to dublin, in 2015. the organizers and the volunteers are to be commended. it was a splendid event. >> the united nations general assembly also happening during his six-day visit. i want to bring in nbc news reporter. you spend a lot of time with this pope in rome and in his travels. what do you think? >> well, it's quite amazing, richard. i've traveled with him quite a bit. across the world. haven't had such a great bird's
view of the crowd until today. this is the first time i come to philadelphia. what i know about philadelphia is it's full of people. not always like that, but from here, seeing 850,000 people, covering all the area here in philadelphia was quite a sight. i'm watching right now these 850,000 people moving away slowly, trying to get home. it's going to be a very long hike back home and back to the transportation. i must admit, everybody is very composed. they're all very patient. it's all very orderly, which is impressive, considering that they've been standing out there for so many hours. this is the pope francis effect, if you may call it. everybody came here to bathe in this positivity. they are just taking it away with them. earlier on, you were talking about how the flight back to rome is nine hours. you wonder whether the pope is going to get any sleep.
he will. the media, the 70 journalists that will be on there won't. what happens on the plane back to rome is that usually, and it will be the case this time, as well, is proope francis gives a long presser, just answers journalist questions on the trip he just took. in this case, he'll have to talk about the whole of the trip. washington, new york and philadelphia. usually, i've been on the planes quite a few times. >> right. >> usually, it takes about an hour to answer questions. here talking about three cities, a long journey. maybe quite a while, that presser up there in the air. >> he may get some sleep, but the journalists will not because they'll be listening to what he says. he sometimes says things that are newsworthy, at least what we've seen in the past. thank you so much. again, 850,000 people trying to make their way. certainly not as big as the
crowd was in the philippines when he had the largest papal mass. some 5 or 6 million people. try to get a cab after that. we now understand that pope francis is arriving at the atlantic aviation hangar. his motorcade has just gotten there. these are live pictures you see right now. we also understand that the vice president, vice president biden, dr. jill biden are there, waiting for him. we have also got word that the governor, governor tom and mrs. francis wolf will be in attendance, along with michael and lisa nutter. we expect that to be the case. in this, at this stop, this final stop for pope francis, he should have a message where he will express gratitude to the world meeting of family leaders, supporters and volunteers. we expect that to be about ten minutes. we're going to wait to see when pope francis gets out of the
motorcade, and we will go straight to his remarks, which will be in english and spanish. we guess it to start around 6:30, and the pope has been ahead of stead yuchedule. washington bureau chief of the chicago sun times, lynn, we're seeing the last event about to happen here after six days. hard to believe. after all these days, it's here. >> what a historic run for this past week. three major united states cities. these vast audiences with a message that have focused a lot of people on a lot of things. whether or not they're religious, it's been a remarkable few days. >> what do you expect the vice president to say here? >> well, i think the vice president -- and i am just so totally out of guessing here -- he's a devout catholic, and i
wouldn't be surprised if they talk about things of the soul, things of the heart. i mean, i'm not looking for any political message. i don't think he's going to ask the pope, should i run for president? i think that this is the kind of very serious moment. you don't know when you'll see a pope again. >> there's the fiat that just drove by our camera shot here, lynn, as the motorcade i mentioned earlier, on the compound of the airport, where air force one and air force two, when they're in the area, that's where they land. again, you can see the fiat that has been the icon from the first day -- >> absolutely. >> -- to the second to the third to the fourth, and now on this final day. please, go ahead. >> my point is, by the way, that fiat is going to become one of the most famous automobiles in america for awhile, at least. we all know that vice president biden lost his son this year. maybe if the pope has not said
some consoling words on that, he would probably again. i think when you deal in a private moment with a great religious figure, it's more of your soul and your being that you want to say something or make that connection with. i say that as a person of faith who understands that these moments don't happen very often. >> again, vice president biden is the first roman catholic vice president. there he is in the room there, along with his wife, as well, dr. jill biden. this is the hangar where we do expect pope francis to be speaking shortly. again, lynn, this is the final ten minutes that we'll get to hear from pope francis. as claudio was saying, as he gets on the 777, he still has work to do. he's going to have to briefing and, perhaps, say again, as i was noting earlier, items that
are often newsworthy. >> listen, i don't envy the reporters on the plane. i know what it's like. if the guess is he's going to talk for about an hour, it takes forever to transcribe the remarks. then you have to craft your stories in a way they're lucky they won't have any wi-fi up in the air, or maybe they will because they at least will be able to have a head start. they'll spend the flight writing their stories. one hour or more debrief takes sometimes a long time to do. but the top headline, so these vatican reporters know what they're looking and listening for. probably a big headline will be if pope francis just gives some very pip impression of what the united states meant to him and what he thought he accomplished. and what he thought he'd accomplish by urging congress to follow the golden rule. >> if you're just joining us, on
the right hand side of your screen, we see where the last few vehicles of pope francis' entourage, his motorcade. on the left-hand side, we see vice president joe biden going to be there to welcome pope francis. as well as his wife, dr. jill biden. we expect pope francis to deliver a short message of about ten minutes, again, in english and spanish. on set with us here as we wait for those remarks, we have liz lev, art historian at a university in rome. still with us is father mcshane. one of the comments that have been made here, liz, about pope francis, as he has made his way through the united states, at least on the east coast, is that he has led not only this trip but also the church in a way -- and george was remarking earlier that he is a ceo of the catholic
church. might he be also, based on some of the things he has done, an entrepreneurial ceo. there's the pope arriving right now, greeting vice president joe biden. of course, we will take those remarks shortly. liz? >> i think it's a very safe thing to say. i mean, this is a man who has done things in a very new way. you don't see him surrounded by personal secretaries. you see him venturing out alone. you see him doing surprising things. he's the one who controls his motorcade. he stops here, he stops there. in rome, we've seen a way of living at the papacy that's completely different. definitely. >> george? >> richard, for many hundred years, the management side of the papacy was thought to be a central function. what we have popes for? to run the central machinery of the catholic church. that has dramatically changed
beginning with john paul ii. the world expects and the church expects the pope is going to be the church's chief witness. >> george, let's listen in now as they begin the program. >> let's give a round of applause to our shepherd. [ applause ] we just wanted to say, archbishop, thank you very, very much. because if it wasn't for your yes three years ago, to the holy father in the vatican, then the world meeting of families 2015 philadelphia would not have been a reality today. so thank you so much and god bless you and the holy father. thank you very much [ applause ] >> thank you very much. thank you. we should save the applause for the holy father, okay? your holiness, archbishop, mr.
vice president, governor and mrs. wolf, mayor and mrs. nutter and friends, on the parkway a few minutes ago, i mentioned that this has been an extraordinary week for the people of philadelphia. it's been equally important for those of you gathered here this evening from around the world and from the united states. none of this could have happened without the truly heroic efforts of bishop john mcentire, the president of the world meeting of families, the executive director of the world meeting of families, the leadership of the co-chairs and committees of the world meeting of families, archbishop palia, and his great and generous staff, and the work of so many others. please keep them and all of us in your prayers. we especially ask you, holy
father, to bless these wonderful people who made the event happen. we want you to know that, once again, the hearts of the people of the city of brotherly love are with you. we hate to see you leave. we're so grateful that you came to our home, philadelphia. [ applause ] >> mr. vice president, bishops and dear friends, my days with
you have been brief. but they have been days of grace for me, and i pray for you, too. please, now, i ask as i prepare to leave, i do so with a heart full of gratitude and hope. i'm grateful to all of you and to the many others who worked so hard to make my visit possible and for the world meeting of
families. i found the bishops -- all the many volunteers and benefactors who assisted in ways large and small. [ applause ] i also thank if famithe familie share their witness during the meeting. it is not so easy to speak openly of one's life, but their honesty and humility before the lord and each of us showed the beauty of family life in all its
richness and diversity. i pray that our days of prayer and reflection on the importance of the family for our health in society will inspire families to continue to strive for ordinance and to see the church as a constant companion with the challenges they might face. at the end of my visit, i would also like to thank all those who prepare prepared in washington and new york. it was particularly moving for
me to canonize junipero serra, who reminds us all of our call to be missionaries. and i was also very moved to stand with my brothers and sisters of other religions at ground zero, that place which speaks so powerfully of the misery of evil. yet, we know with certainty that evil never has the last word [ applause ] in god's merciful plan, love and
peace triumphs over all. mr. vice president, i ask you to renew my gratitude to president obama and to the members of congress, with the assurance of my prayers for american people. this land has been blessed with tremendous gifts and opportunities. i pray that you may be -- all be good and generous stewards of the human and material resource entrusted to you. i thank the lord that i was able to witness the faith of god's
people in this country. as manifest in our prayer and elegance in so many walks of charity. jesus says in the scriptures, truly, i say to you, as you did to one of the least of these, my brother, you did it to me. you care for me in your generous welcome was a sign of your love for jesus and for your faithfulness to him. so to care for the poor, the sick, the homeless and the
immigrant, you show life at every stage and your concern for family life. [ applause ] in all of this, you recognize that jesus is in your midst, and that you care for one other is caring for yjesus himself. i ask all of you, especially the war on terror and benefactors who assisted with the world meeting of family, don't let your enthusiasm for jesus, l ru
dry. may our days together be a fruit that will generosity and care for others that will endure, just as we have received so much from what gift freely given us, and not for our making, so let us gift to others in return. dear friends, i am graceful for you in the lord. i entrust you to the eternal care of mary magdalene, patroness. i will pray for you and your families.
this, the final good-bye and, really, extending to them and thanking them for their work to make what was, at least from what we've seen on the outside, a flawless day. a long one, certainly, for many, but a flawless day. we expect him at this moment to now meet with what we presume to be vice president joe biden for, perhaps, 10 or 20 minutes. we also expect, as you can see here, that he will spend time to shake hands with those who spent time and, as you heard in his message, he thanks all the volunteers for the time and the effort and the passion that they put into the world meeting of families that happened in philadelphia, this eighth meeting. then what he will do is proceed to his plane, and then depart the united states. after six just amazing days for those who have watched what has happened so far in these many
hours we've been able to follow along with him. there you see the tarmac of this airport that, normally, will be the landing place when the vice president or the president does go to philadelphia. still with us, we have george wigle, we have father mcshane, we also have liz lev with us at the moment, as well as kathleen. george, you and i were talking right before the pope was beginning his remarks. >> yeah. i was saying that for so many centuries, it was expected that the pope was basically the chief manager of the central office machinery in the catholic church. that expectation has changed dramatically over the past 40 years. i think it's a recovery of the original idea, of peter as the one who goes around the world strengthening the brethren. this world meeting of families is the older folks equivalent of world youth day.
this remarkable innovation of john paul ii that now draws 1.5 million, 2 million young people every three years to a major city in the world. pope francis was in rio in 2013 for that. the next one will be in the city of john paul ii. so the world meeting of families is kind of the equivalent of that for people who are a little bit older, longer in life. what all of this expresses to me is that a church whose very name suggests universality, catholic means yun vuniversal, now has t opportunity to be a world church in a way it never has before. that's evident in world youth day, at this world meeting of families. it was evident at the mass today, when so many were from all over the world, africa, latin america, the philippines, europe, et cetera.
so it's an extraordinary opportunity, but it adds to the burden of the papacy because you can't just stay home and mind the shop anymore. >> that yun vuniversality, as y were saying, cuts both ways. the live pictures, pope francis is shaking the hands of those who spent we don't know how many months putting together this -- or years putting together this event in the united states. it is the first time, as i mentioned earlier, and by his side is his translator with his glasses, smiling just as much as pope francis has been throughout these past six days. liz, to you on this, the universality, talk about how it cuts both ways. while we have seen what appears to be a pope that has reached out to so many people, we've seen the interviews and those we talked to, including yourself, and he's reached out to more than catholics. >> those are particularlyly
evidenced, both in the tremendous speech at the united nations, which was interrupted by applause from leaders all over the world, and someone that was leaven, was growing and had life to it. and that prayer moment at 9/11. looking at a site of violence, of death, something that has rez na -- resonated, you see this across demographics. that's where we had our beautiful moments of the flip side or other side of univers universali universality. >> father mcshane, as he moves toward that space consciously, purposely, perhaps, is there a downside to that? because at the very start, he is the head, the head pastor of the catholic church. >> well, you know, it's interesting you use the term. as i was listening to george,
that's what i kept thinking. he is the chief pastor and takes that very, very seriously. i've seen a real transformation in the way in which the world regards him. it's not just the chief pastor of the church, he is seen as the moral leader of the world right now. i think that was very much on display at the united nations. it was on display at the white house and the way in which the president interacted with him. the downside here is the expectations for his ability to achieve what people want him to achieve may not be met. he has a universal audience. one of the things that's interesting, people look at him and see him from their own perspective as someone that's touching them in a very personal way. >> very good point made there, father. i go to you, kathleen, on this. as we've watched pope francis, earlier today, he was so focused on being a pastor. i mean, his message earlier this
morning was, be a good pastor. that's what you need to be. in so many senses, it was made by one of our guests at the time, try to not focus on the orthodox, try to focus on those there to serve. what is your thought on that opinion that was made by one of our guests earlier this morning? >> i think when he mentioned that one of the highlights for him was the visit -- the opportunity to canonize junipero se arra, who calls on to be disciples, one of the messages of francis' pontificate is to meet people where they are. he's calling on pastors to do that, to go out to the margins, to the peripheries, those who might feel forgotten or are forgotten. what does that mean today? i thought it was beautiful the way he ended, to say, i leave you in the care of our lady of
the immaculate conception, the national patron of the united states. i think it was a beautifully expressed moment, and i'm marveling at the way he's still smiling and greeting each person. you know each person he's encountering feels known by him. it's remarkable, the way he's able to do that, no matter who he is meeting with. >> if you're just joining us, we are looking at what could be the last 67 minutes of pope francis being in the united states. he is now making his way, as he thanks each and every one of those that are in that hangar at that airport, where he'll be taking off shortly from, to say thank you for what they've done during the world meeting of families. we do also expect him to be sitting down and presumably meeting with vice president joe biden, who is the first roman catholic vice president. that could go for another 10 to 20 minutes.
once he's done at this location, then he will get into his plane and head home at around 8:00 p.m. eastern time. from there, that's about a nine hour flight. when he lands, it'll be around 11:00 a.m. local time on a monday. so that's what's ahead for pope francis, although i am saying at this moment, only 66 minutes now or so, he certainly does have many more hours before he can actually get back into what are comfortable and familiar environments and, perhaps, sleeping in his own bed. george wigle, as we look at pope francis now, and he's moving forward, i really enjoyed the pictures we saw this morning. liz, you were here at that time, too. when he was just meeting with the seminarians. he met with the youngest and the oldest. what that meant to them, because as father mcshane, you remember
when you were in seminary. i mean, even though you know you have a life ahead of priesthood, being a priest, you also understand you're 18 to 21. there's a lot of questions happening at that time. if you were to see a pope at that time, what that meant for you. george, to you first, and then to you, father mcshane. >> richard, i think one of the things that pope francis will take great heart from in the united states, what he'll take home from the united states, are these meetings with seminarians. he met the seminarians at the college seminary in washington on wednesday night. i think it was. bishop barron mentioned this earlier. it's quite remarkable that seminaries in the united states are fuller than they have been in almost 50 years. >> just despite growing up in a troubled period for faith, for
religion. >> well, and given the horrors of the abuse scandal. i mean, these are young men who have decided they are going to be part of the solution to the future of the catholic church in the united states. they're going to grow it. they're going to grow it because no one going into the seminary today, no young woman going into a lisreligious career, we have be in disciple mode to be the church that the second vatican council calls us to be, pope francis and the gospel calls us to be. share the gift you've been given. that's been the message through this week. >> i agree entirely with what george said. it's important for us to remember that in his life as a jesuit, not his career but his life as a jesuit, he spent a good part of it as what we would call a former of young jesuit
scholastics preparing for priesthood. the encounters he's having with seminarians around the country and the world are encounters which are precious to him because it brings forth from him one of the great gifts he has. that is the gift of forming men, just in this case, men for mission, and i do want to stress what george said. he has throughout this very rich experience of six days, one of the layers has been over and over again, teaching not only seminarians but teaching priests how to be good priests. >> a round of applause as pope francis makes his way back to the podium. let's listen to see what he says. this was from moments ago. in fact, he just moved off from the hangar after thanking many of those who had volunteers. we move to the tape of when he did come to the podium a little earlier. now, we presume 20 minutes of
meetings including vice president joe biden. i wanted to continue here, liz. that's the idea of the progress he's made in difficult spaces. we're talking about the sexual abuse scandal and the survivors. there's also the issue of women in the catholic church, too. what do you think he's accomplished in his six days here amongst items like that? >> well, i think his outreach immediately to the religious sisters, especially even before he got here in his virtual town hall, when he sort of pushed aside and the camera spotted a religious sister. i don't know if this is appropriate for a pope to say, but i love you. to begin with, there's been this very overt demonstration of solidarity with the difficulties of the sisters of charity. we're looking at a pope who, to begin with, has gone out of his way to show a closeness, which has been appreciated. then we find him continuously
holding up the roles of mothers, their children. of course, i think in the roman perspective of things, when i've been listening to these arguments, in the roman perspective of things, we see, whenever you turn anywhere in the city of rome, it's always about a woman. we don't build churches smaller to female martyrs versus male martyrs. in the very beginning, in the ground that we walk upon, we have this commemoration of men and women who equally gave their lives for christ. then at the summit of it, one of the highest hills of rome, who is does the church belong to but mary? he's been holding up within the framework of the tradition of the church the role of women. >> before break, i want to go to kathleen, who is there in philadelphia. kathleen, if you can, reflect on what liz said. >> yes. the role of women is one of the most difficult issues in the church. i think that pope francis has
been very clear about what's not going to happen. the ordination of women. i think the issue is much broader than that. one of the things that has concerned me and many others over the last 15 years or so is that for the first time, we're seeing that among millennial women, younger generations of women, it's the women who are less engaged, less -- attend church less often than the male counterparts. that's a reversal of not only this country's history but much longer than that. the women are always more connected to the church than their male counterparts. more orthodox and more devout. it's disturbing that think that the church may be losing some millennial women, this generation. if you lose them, you lose the children, you lose many of the men, as well. so where i really see signs of hope with pope francis is the way that he's engaging women. saying, we have to talk about these issues of women in leadership. we have to find ways to make the
church more inclusive of women at every level. he's done that himself. he's appointed a woman to lead a pontifical university in rome. he's appointed more women to vatican commissions. there's so much more that could be done. i think it's a really vital question for the future of the church in the united states. to not -- to continue this conversation. to have a dialogue about what it means to be a women in the church today. where is the position for female leadership? >> to the live pictures on the left-hand side of your screen, it appears there's been some movement of the motorcade of pope francis. you saw pictures a second ago, right there. there of what we know there was a band there on site to greet pope francis. we understand he's now moving from that location in the hangar to meet with some others. a private meeting. it may be the location we were talking about with the vice president. after he has those meetings, then perhaps returning to this location, then going to the
plane and then taking off. again, if you're just joining us here at the top of the hour, 7:00 p.m. eastern local time in philadelphia. pope francis just finishing thanks to the 400 clearly just a representation of those who made the world meeting of families happen there in philadelphia. on this sunday, september 27th, the day of worship and now, he is moving off to another location to have some short meetings, we understand, before he then gets into that american airlines 777 and then moves forward from there. back to you here, kathleen, and what have you thought about his idea of focusing on being a pastor? is that message unique to the united states from what you've seen? >> no. pope francis came to the united states as a pastor. his message is very consistent. what he did do, i think, in really interesting and wonderful
ways, is tayl tailer that -- ta that message to american history. i think he's really bringing together the universality of the church and the local culture here in this nation and what it means. i think everywhere he goes, he goes as a pastor. he spoke specifically to the leaders in the united states, to the pastors in the united states, about what it means to do that here in this place. i think it's been a powerful message, and i think it's one that we'll continue to talk about even after he departs from rome. >> back to our table in new york. reflections on whatn not only kathleen said, but i want to ask what you've seen from day one to day six. how is pope francis now, six days older, still 78, but six days older, different than he was six days ago. >> let me start by putting in a
good word for catholic priests in the united states. i spend a lot of time in a lot of different parts of the world church. the most pastoral priests i've met in the world church is here in the united states. for the pope to lift up that dimension of priestly life is an encouragement and it needs to be said. we haven't talked that much about today that has consistently tied together the white house, the congress, the u.n. and the address at independence hall yesterday. that is religious freedom. religious freedom cannot be reduced to a mere freedom of worship, although it's obviously important. religious freedom means that instituti institutions, schools, hospitals, social service agencies, must be permitted by
the state to do those good things the pope is urging them to do according to their own self-understanding. that's been a key theme for the bishops of the united states. i know they emphasized that to him when they were talking to him before he got here, and he delivered that for them big time. >> casey hunt is looking at a different street location as they move now to the post mass of 850,000 people. i can already tell behind you, the revelers, if you will, those who were smiling and glad to see pope francis have now moved to another location. >> reporter: the pilgrims, celebrants, however you want to describe the hundreds of thousands of people who showed up today have dispersed rapidly. now what's left is a cleanup job. this was, as we've been saying all weekend, the biggest
national security event potentially that's ever been put on in the united states. some of the event organized i talked to beforehand described it as four super bowls. i mean, it's hard to overstate the level of security that was in place here in philadelphia. miles of these bike racks that now have to be essentially torn up, packed away. there's obviously a lot of trash that has been left behind. we saw this in another part of the city yesterday. there was a locked down section that they picked up and cleared out pretty quickly. now essentially, all of this has to happen in reverse. there are a ton of law enforcement agencies really from all over the country who have come in to help out with this. at this point, they're tasked with breaking it down and heading out, richard. >> so you have seen as you've been reporting along the way of pope francis, quickly, the energy increases and so quickly, it does go away after the event is done. thank you. of course, you'll be with us throughout the hour as we continue to talk about pope francis, counting down the final
54 minutes before he gets on that live picture of that plane, that 777, american aarirlines plane. he always takes on an air carrier of the country he's leaving from. this is consistent with that practice, of what he's done in the past. george weigle, nbc news vatican analyst. you have to leave us shortly. you were talking about religious freedom, and that was one of the big themes yesterday. was the pope therefore saying, okay, united states, here's the opportunity to step it up? >> well, he's saying, among other things to the obama administration, that you got to get square with the little sisters of the poor here. that visit to the little sisters of the poor on wednesday night was a very clear signal of his support for their suit against the government at the moment. i hope that this visit, along other things, will lead to a more serious discussion of this
very contentious issue. because what is at stake is nothing less than pope francis' charge to the church in the united states to be this field hospital taking care of the walking wounded in our couldturcould tu -- culture. we can only do that as a catholic church if we can do it out of our deepest convictions about who we are. this is not an abstract matter. it's concrete. it bares directly on the lives of hospitals, schools, charitable institutions, homes for the elderly, service to people with aids, et cetera. >> he is fast moving today fini message at a hangar where the plane is at the moment. he will depart at 7:59, what the itinerary shows. we expect he's talking with the vice president. we will continue to watch what is happening there. i want to thank you, george weigel, for all of your
commentary and reporting. i'm sure we'll hear from you again tomorrow as we come to a summary of what the entire trip is like, as we are not at the end of it yet. the rest of our guests stay with us. stay with us here on msnbc. we'll continue to watch pope francis, as he is finishing the last 50 odd minutes here in the united states. i'm jerry bell the second. and i'm jerry bell the third. i'm like a big bear and he's my little cub. this little guy is non-stop. he's always hanging out with his friends. you've got to be prepared to sit at the edge of your seat and be ready to get up. there's no "deep couch sitting." definitely not good for my back. this is the part i really don't like right here. (doorbell) what's that? a package! it's a swiffer wetjet. it almost feels like it's moving itself. this is kind of fun. that comes from my floor? eww! this is deep couch sitting. [jerry bell iii] deep couch sitting! you can't work from home when you're sick. you need real reliefruth ,
minutes. if you're watching the clock. before leaving, the pope thanking volunteers and supporters and looking back on some of the things he's experienced during his time in the united states. take a listen. >> i was also very moved to stand with my brothers and sisters of other religions at ground zero. that place which speaks so powerfully of the misery of evil. yet, we know with certainty that evil never has the last word. [ applause ] >> earlier, the pope celebrated his final mass of his trip in philadelphia with a message for the crowd. >> translator: -- shown by little things. by attention to those small
daily signs which make our life always feel like we're at home. faith grows when it is practiced and it is shaped by love. that is why our families, our homes, are true, domestic churches. >> now, one estimate of all of those people there that were attending the mass, about 860,000 people, which led to a very long line for communion today. pope francis arriving at the mass in the popemobile, as you see there, greeting the throngs lined up to get a glimpse of him. his final ride in the vehicle that has seen time on the streets of washington, d.c., new york city and now philadelphia. as we have been saying today, many a child being kissed along the way.
done on numerous occasions, he earned the nickname of the people's pope, but getting out of the popemobile, greeting the people unscripted. that's who he is. live pictures on the left-hand side of the plane that pope francis will be making his way to shortly, as i was just saying. he's in private meetings right now. joining our pope coverage this hour, kevin cusullivan. well, it's day six, monsignor. you had a busy time here in new york city. now, he's in philadelphia. your reflections on what you heard him say today during the mass and what you saw after that? >> my reflections are that he really got the thing right. he got the thing right because in every place he went, he spoke across an incredible spectrum of people. so he spoke at congress, he spoke at the united nations.
both those places, after he spoke at congress, he went and had a meal with people who are homeless, people who are hungry. after speaking at the united nations, he came up to east harlem in new york and met with immigrants and refugees. he got it right. he understands that jesus spoke to everybody. so he got that message right, of inclusiveness, of making everybody both be a recipient and a passer on of the word. >> that really did resonate, didn't it, monsignor, when he was at the correctional facility and talking about washing feet. he had spent much of his commentary there on that and that of being like jesus. as you think back to your interactions of what you've seen so far, what's your thought about what his visit has meant as director to you, as director of catholic charities? >> well, what it means is quite
simply that he put his body and his person where his words have been for the past few years, where he basically says that we need to be a church of the poor and for the poor. by where he chose to go, he communicated that in his very busy schedule, those whom we in society sometimes put to the side and do not make time for, he made time for. that's what was so tremendous about his visit with us in new york, washington and in philadelphia. >> consistent in his itinerary. i know father mcshane, you'd like to react to that. i want to reflect on what's on the screen right now. the motorcade of pope francis now making its way back. it had departed 15 minutes ago after he'd finished his comments. it looks like the motorcade is stopping there at the stairs, leading up into the plane. he could be departing earlier than we had originally planned. you can see just the crowd and, no doubt, a bit of programming
before he does leave. a farewell after six days here in the united states. days that many will remember. it is his first trip here to the u.s., and he had a lot of firsts in his time here. you can see the fiat in the darkness of night. 7:17 local time eastern. again, he's going to get on a nine-hour flight back to rome, back to the vatican. along with a group of reporters. what has been said about 17, perhaps one less, one more. he will not stop working. he will probably have a press briefing that can run up to about an hour. again, you can see the number of cars surrounding that. there's vice president biden also there at the airport. the first roman catholic vice president who was at the farewell, along with the governor and his wife, as well as the mayor and his wife of
philadelphia. father mcshane, as we're watching these live pictures here, you were about to react to what monsignor was saying. >> before i do that, one, today was remarkable because he seemed to gain energy as the day went on. he was more animated, and his english was really much more fluent than it had been. that's the first thing. the second, when you looked at him in the hangar, he was smiling. this is a man who has been up since 4:00 in the morning, which is what he does. he gets up at 4:00 and prayers. i couldn't agree with you more, kevin. i think when the history of this trip is written, it'll be in two volumes. the first will be the texts. the second are the images. i think the first volume will be parsed carefully by theologians, to figure out what he meant and where he was consistent.
the second is the volume that people will carry in their hearts. some of my friends complained last year, he's not a great thee lod -- theologian. i said, try to erase the image of him washing the feet of a 6-year-old african immigrant in rome while his mother weeps uncontrollable. what does it mean? it means the works of mercy are unforgettable. >> when he was in east harlem with immigrants and refugees, at the end, completely unscripted, three of the women there, individually, sang him a song. he just waited there as they sang a song. that image spoke volumes than the little program we had. >> pope francis has a go-to document, if you l when it comes to his life as a pastor. it was a document written by pope paul 6:vi in 1975. announcing the gospel.
this document specifies that already in 1975, a recognition that man has almost gone beyond words. so parsing the text, that's the job of theologians. that document already recognized that man understands through images. he has given us images. he has really activated this document, shaken off the dust and made us see how powerful positive, radiant, joyous images are and what impact they have on people. >> just a second, father mcshane. pope francis is now outside of his fiat. in a lineup, shaking hands and fra perhaps saying good-bye as he makes his way to the steps and then into his plane and depart. father mcshane, you were saying? >> i was going to say, picking up on what liz was saying, i think this is one of the reasons why the digital generation gets him. they can hear him more readily than they can hear most of us when we preach, because they see and they're able to kind of
reflect on that in their hearts. that is, to me, a remarkable gift. it moves us beyond just the written word to a new form of religious literacy. >> is this about him uniquely, the team he assembled uniquely, how they work together as a church versus perhaps before? >> his leadership is key. he has pushed us into this new age, but he is very, i think, shrewdly gathered around him -- kevin, if you wouldn't mind talking about this, giving such a major role in thetu church in the city of rome. >> it's his leadership and style. one of the things that he is and, to me, what was amazing about his trip, he's an american. we from the united states sometimes don't think south americans are americans. he considers himself an american, and he came here. he actually communicated that he liked us. even while he said, there are
things you have to do a little better, but he called us to be best of who we are as americans. >> monsignor, you're giving a head nod. you're from south america, look north and go, why do the people in the north call themselves americans? we are, too. north american, south american, central american, latin american. we still have kathleen in philadelphia, where the pope is. we understand, and i saw some pictures earlier, of the band that is there. maybe we can hear some of the sound there. what is the band that is playing at the airport where pope francis is departing from? >> t >> reporter: the band is from the same high school band that played in 1979 when pope john paul ii visited, the first papal visit to the united states. in another wonderful connection, the executive director of the world meeting for families,
donna, was there at that. she was an usher when the cardinal herrera high schoo har. i know the high school students found they they'd play last august at band camp. you can imagine how excited they are to be there. >> kathleen, i'm not sure if you can see the pictures, but we're probably nearly 20, 30 feet from pope francis saying good-bye. he's that far from the steps and the plane. any reflections? >> i can't believe it's over. i can't believe it's coming to an end. i mean, of course it's not. there will be reflection. there will be change. but it has been an exhilarating six days, and with so much that has happened, it's hard to believe he's about to be wheels up for rome. he's about to go back to rome and leave us.
it's really very moving. there he is right until the end, greeting people, being with people, thanking people, i imagine. >> liz, as you watch pope francis, there he is saying good-bye. first to mayor nutter, in the center of your screen. then you see vice president biden at the end of the line. it's hard to believe that we are this close to saying good-bye to pope francis after these six days. >> i've been thinking all along, we've had all these titles for him. you've seen him in his political vein, missionary and pastor. also, he's a well-read man. he's an epic pope, in the literary sense, an epic piece of literature takes separate stories and weaves them into one great narrative. at the u.n., he cited the ar aga -- the epic. he's taken the stories of the
homeless, the immigrants, stories of the families, he's woven them together into one great narrative. as we watch that plane take off, we watch that narrative project into a great whole narrative of human history. >> if you look at his ititinera throughout the week, certainly a story we'll look at and say, i see the connections. vice president joe biden again now saying good-bye to pope francis. sat across the table today and we have had guests, analysts, those reflecting on pope francis' trip here. those who are both catholic and non-catholic. just the emotion coming across the table here. as he walks up the steps here, let's listen to what might be happening there on the ground, as he makes his first steps into this american airlines 777.
♪ >> he makes a right, and then into the cabin. then the plane will close its doors and make its way down the runway there at the airport where air force one, air force two lands whenever they come to the area. claudio, who has travelled with pope francis many a time. claudio, you were saying a second ago how it's not going to be over for the reporters, but what happens now as the pope, as pope francis, gets into the
plane? what are we not seeing that you have seen? >> well, there are about 17 reporters at the back of the plane. the pope, of course, enrtor his entourage is there. the pope will come into the back of the plain in economy with the spokesperson of the vatican and of the pope, frand he'll give h impressions of the trip and answer questions of the journalists. the difference between pope francis and the other popes is in the past, journalists would give the vatican spokesperson a number of questions and then the pope will decide which ones he will answer. this pope is different. he will come to the back of the plane and say, shoot. ask me anything. i will answer anything. that's very pope francis. that is one of the reasons why
these pressers in the back of the plane last such a long time. most of the time, they last more than an hour. he's going to talk about not one city, he's going to talk about three cities. he's going to talk about washington, congress, the u.n., talk about obama, talk about here in philadelphia. he's got a lot of things to say, a lot of questions to answer. i presume, and i'm sure that he will say something pretty newsworthy. we'll wake up tomorrow morning. >> claudio, as we now get ready for the finish of this trip, how would you reflect on this one? this, of course, one of the trips of pope francis that you have covered. >> well, this was more political than many other trips that he has made in the past. the other trips were pastoral in a way. here, he was, you know -- he spoke to congress, was the first pope to speak to congress. he was adamant to send out the
message for the -- not only the u.s., but also to the whole world, when he talked at the united nations that he believes it is time for action to curb climate change. of course, he talked a lot about immigration and stressing how he himself, he's the son of immigrants, and he is, as you said before, a short while ago, he's an american. he's from america. he's trying to -- he was trying to, of course, abridge that conversation that has been going on here in the states during the presidential debates about immigration. he's trying to bring back the people to see immigrants as what they have always been here and what they still are, which is the core of this nation. this is a nation of immigrants, of sons of immigrants. trying to bring the conscious of the people back to the history of this country. this has been pastoral, but very, very political.
a lot more political than many of the trips that i remember. >> nbc's claudio with the pope. thank you so much, as always, for your coverage of pope francis today again. as we watch these pictures, we are about 20, 25 minutes ahead of schedule. that's the way the day started. he was ahead of schedule this morning. throughout the day, very brisk, moving along and getting to every commitment. certain certainly puntually. going through the items without a stutter in his step. you'd see him walk out of the fiat and go straight and arrive and be greeting people. there was no rest in people for this pope francis on the sixth day. as i was speaking -- mentioning a second ago, that has -- what i've sensed, and maybe the three of you can help me out with this, just the sense of emotion that people have talked about
him. by watching him, by listening to him. earlier, one had said, would it be okay for me to cry on air? i said, how are you reacting to what he's doing? he was not catholic, just as a sub text note there. very interesting, how this pope has resonated not only with those -- the 850,000 in the streets today but also with folks like yourself, who know this pope so well. >> well, it seems like he has the ability to engage each person, so the person feels that he or she is the most important person in his life at that moment. by the way, when he addressed each of the groups we talked about -- >> father mcshane, i'm sorry to interrupt. nbc's anne thompson is on that plane with the pope. anne thompson, he's ahead of schedule and you're about to, it looks like, start taxiing. >> reporter: he is ahead of schedule. we were supposed to take off at 8:00, but he is running about a half an hour ahead of schedule,
which is not unusual for this pope. he's been ahead of schedule on most of the trip. the reporters now are just trying to organize themselves. it's anticipated that pope francis will come back and talk to us and take questions during the eight hour flight to rome. it's something we all look forward to. there's a lot of -- among the things we want to know, first and foremost, are you know, what are his impressions of america? how does this differ from any preconceived notions he brought? what surprised him? what impressed him? does he see a different kind of faith in the united states than he has seen in other countries he has visited in it should be a most interesting flight back to rome. it always is when the rome talks to us. >> i remember many of your interviews on the plane with the pope, anne thompson. it's always something interesting he will share as he spends time to reflect, then comes back and speaks with you.
>> reporter: yeah, he does. i think, you know, the first time he did it on the trip back from rio, he was -- we were all in shock. he was clearly energized by his trip to rio. i think it's probably the same thing with the united states. i mean, he just seemed to have all kinds of energy this afternoon at mass. really seemed to be enjoying himself on the popemobile parade around the benjamin franklin parkway in philadelphia. overall, i think he has to say that this has been a very successful trip for pope francis. i think, at least from my perspective, the reception in america was far more exuberant than i ever thought it would be, and more enthusiastic. i am sure that is something that -- clearly, we saw it energized him. he loved -- he told me he wanted to meet the american people. he met them.
we're anxious to hear what he thought about the people he met. >> you've covered this pope, as we're talking about right now. you know him better than most americans and you've watched him not only over the years but over the last six days. how is pop francis -- and we were talking about this earlier here in the studio -- how is he different six days later than when he first arrived six days ago here, anne? >> reporter: i'm not sure he's a whole lot different. maybe he's a little more relaxed, given the reception that he has gotten. i think this pope is a very -- just not a smart man, but i think he's a very smart politician. i am always amazed that, you know, when i travel with him, how he can walk into contentious situations and situations where one political side or another might want to use him or co opt
h him, and he never lets it happen. he did that again in the united states. before he came, people tried to put him in a liberal or conse e conservative camp. democrat or republican. he avoids all those labels. he is first and forecast a priest, and he looks at the world much differently than our politicians do. he will agree with some -- with democrats on some issues and democrats on others. >> anne thompson on the plane, as it looks like you are starting to taxi. you're there with the pope. i'm sorry to interrupt you. just to let the viewers know you're on the plane, the 777, with pope francis. the energy level is what many have remarked about here, anne. >> reporter: it is. someone close to him tells me he takes a nap in the afternoon. we saw him at independence hall yesterday, he gave that speech, you know, referring to american freedoms and how important it is to protect religious freedom,
and how he reached out to the immigrants and this immigrant nation of ours. especially hispanic immigrants, giving them some advice not to be ashamed of their traditions. i asked him, someone close to him, i said, he seems to have a lot of energy. he said, it's not what he's drinking, he had a good nap. 78 years old. >> 78 but, certainly, has the energy of a 28-year-old. you're starting to taxi again. anne thompson on the plane with pope francis, as it has now left the hangar area and taxiing and will take off for an eight or nine hour flight. you get in in the morning, anne, 10:00 or 11:00 local time. then what happens? >> reporter: we land at 10:00 rome time. then he always goes to st. mary major in rome and whether he'll go right there after he lands or
sometimes we goes back to the vatican then travels over to that church. but it's where he always goes and gives thanks after a trip. and prays at the blessed virgin there to give thanks. he always does it before the trip, as well. that's probably one of the other places we will see him when he lands in rome. >> an thompsne thompson, when y to, hang up. we understand how that works. >> reporter: you don't want to be alec baldwin, right? >> we don't want you to be. you will never be like that. that's a good thing. >> reporter: so far, nobody is giving me a hard time. it's funny, you would die laughing, or be amazed, all the cameras are already on the tripods in anticipation of the press conference. it's different than your typical commercial flight. >> again, this papal plane, is
it called pope one, is not like air force one. it is a commercial airline, is it not? >> reporter: absolutely. it's not retrofitted in any way. it's your basic airliner that you would take across, that you would fly from philadelphia to rome. they used to, when john paul ii flew, they used to retrofit a plane. they used to put a bedroom in it for the pope. that's no long er necessary. >> i write my notes in mole skins, and maybe you do the same, too. what will you be writing in your notebook as you have a little bit of quiet time on the plane about this pope francis and his six days in the united states? >> reporter: what will i be writing in my notebook? interesting question. what i'm really going to be focused on is what i'm going to
be writing for tomorrow. >> right. >> reporter: based on what he says. it's kind of -- it's hard to reflect. i think the biggest question i have is will there be a lingering, if you will, francis effect of his trip? is this just six days where, you know, these three cities in the united states saw this man and spells good and joy and felt a sense of optimism that, in many times, is missing in our country? maybe a sense of compassion and mercy we don't always have. i said to somebody, when i'm looking at this, one thing our country does is we're always at each other's throats and don't see each other as one. we see each other as different factions. the question is, do we start to
see ourselves as one again? politics, which has been a major factor in the country, within a year after 9/11, we were all very united after that, unity of purpose. that seemed to have disappeared. it's yet to come back. >> anne thompson on the plane with pope francis, taxiing there in philadelphia at the airport. normally, air force one and air force two land there and take off. anne thompson on the plane, on the phone with us. as you are making that reflection, the question might be then, what moment for you, as you were following the pope over the last six days, may have brought you to that possibility of a conclusion? >> translato >> reporter: i think just listening to his speeches and, especially, as he stressed that we -- we are a nation of immigrants. he is the son of immigrants. his family immigrated from italy
to argentina. he knows what that experience is. i'm the product of irish and german immigrants. i mean, this is our country. this is what has made us great. we are the world's melting pot. i think the -- of that, and it's an opportunity -- you know, the good thing about america is that people come because they believe it's the land of opportunity. they see chances here they wouldn't otherwise have. the other thing is, quite frankly, especially when i'm thinking about my mother and my father, they grew up at a time when there was discrimination against irish and against catholics. to have suddenly, you know, seen the pope being welcomed to the wyatt hou white house, to see the pope speech before congress, to see the pope being hailed by
catholics and non-catholics alike is a wonderful moment. not to be afraid -- you know, no one thinks that, somehow, francis is going to try to run the country or overtake the country or anything like that. i think from a historic standpoint, that has been one of the most phenomenal os pekt asp the trip. >> in the camera shot, you are getting farther in the distance. nbc's anne thompson on the plane with pope francis, taxiing before it takes off. what are you seeing? what's happening inside of the papal plane at the moment? >> reporter: -- part of the plane, but i cannot see the pope. right now, journalists are just -- the cameraman are making sure they have all their equipment in place and their batteries are charged and nothing is going to run out. there is some conversation going on. most of us are just trying to --
the thing about -- when you're on the plane, you're exhausted and all you want to do is come back and sleep, not work the entire eight hours back. if we can get a 15-minute shut eye in -- >> it sounds like our connection, though long lasting there for a moment, has finally petered away because of the, perhaps, the mobile phone connection. anne thompson, nbc news's anne thompson on the plane with the pope, giving us a real insight to what was happening as the pope finishes his final moments here in the united states. what normally happens during these return trips, as she was saying, they'll land about 10:00 a.m. on a monday. then the pope will have a reflection moment, and we'll see where he goes after that.
father mcshane, you were commenting a little bit earlier, before we went to anne thompson, who was on the plane, as we watch and you can see the three dots moving on the left-hand side, your live picture there with the red flashing light on top of the plane, as it continues to taxi. father mcshane, you were saying earlier? >> i was talking about the fact that he seems to have an extraordinary gift for engaging people. it goes beyond people, he engages groups. and he does it in an interesting way. anne thompson made an interleex point. he's a savvy politician, savvy reader of people. what we saw over and over again, whenever he was before a group, whether it was at the u.s., congress, or whether it was in a different setting, he would engage people with direct gaze. he was self-depricatory, then he
would praise, bring out of us, then challenge. it was engagement, praise, challenge. the challenge was, to go back to kevin, to live according to our best angels. i thought it was brilliant through and through, every time he engaged people. the other thing, again, anne thompson's brilliant insight here. i want to underscore, in cuba, he said, we do not serve ideologies, we serve people. so i think that that, kevin, goes to your insight, right at the outset, that he is oriented to the people. he stands above factions because he feels that people have to be served. then he acts it out. >> you know, i think anne's point, what i would say is this is the scariest moment for the church in the united states. >> scariest? >> scariest moment. because do we treat him like a
rock star and the concerts now over, or do we live what we're supposed to live? that's the challenge that we face. if he's just a rock star, then the visit isn't all that important. if we figure out how we continue to be inclusive, how we continue to reach out, how we continue to live the gospel, then the trip was an incredible success. >> we're watching the american airlines 777 gather speed, as it will put down its flaps and then climb to the skies and make its trip with pope francis back to rome. this after six days. there at the airport in philadelphia. we see it climbing to the sky.
there it goes, liv. we are saying good-bye to pope francis in his 777. this after father mcshane was saying, unique points he's made. there's the question then, do you treat him like a rock star? >> i think his point is an interesting one. i think pope francis has been working hards to avoid that. this is a man -- one of the fascinating things about him, look how it all goes together. he's early or puntual? what is a greater sign of respect than to be there early where people are waiting? there is a danger, even for the pope himself, with that much attention -- and in america, we worship celebrities -- there's a danger of really falling into that, believing that somehow, he's the savior. not for one second, not for one
second did the pope ever suggest that he's the rock star. he takes off of that light, like the light inning rning rod, ands it toward the homeless, incarcerated, the disabled. it's an amazing way of keeping himself in the background and using the light for others. >> a common quote has been, "pray for me." >> exactly. >> "pray for me," is what pope francis has said so many times in the last six days. his plane now gone out of sight. pope francis making his way to rome. we're going to come on back right after this short break here on msnbc. for a final reelection on pope francis' visit to the united states. it's intelligent enough to warn of danger from virtually anywhere. it's been smashed, dropped and driven. it's perceptive enough to detect other vehicles on the road. it's been shaken, rattled and pummeled. it's innovative enough to brake by itself,
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hand shake with vice president joe biden and climbing the stairs in to his plane and leaving, taking to the skies about six or seven minutes ago. pope francis now returning home, will land in rome around 10:00 a.m. local time, and then, of course, perhaps relaxing after six days here in the united states. as we finish up here on msnbc on what has been quite a trip, a historic trip for this pope, i join -- i welcome to the table my guests. for you reflections as we say good-bye to pope francis. >> i just lost my brother john on september 11th. i was humbled to meet him. i didn't know what to expect. of course it is bittersweet because i wouldn't have been meeting him if i had not lost my brother on september 11th. i think that's the same idea
that resonated with the families that met him that day. the fact he decided and thought it was important enough to come to the site of such tragedy and grace us with his presence and meet 9/11 family members speaks volumes about him as a human being, as a compassionate person who's full of love, who's a, you know, a peaceful man, and quite honestly having met him, i do now feel changed. i'm a greek orthodox christian. meeting him, i met him with my mom. he blessed my brothers -- i showed him a picture of my brother john and he cupped it and began to pray and i felt an energy resonating from him and he had a wonderful smile, a calmness about him. he made my mother
comfortableabcomfortable and at ease. it is difficult for her to be at the site. we asked for his blessing and i'm grateful for that. >> appreciate you sharing that. your experience has been echoed over and over not only but tloez in the clothe. >> as we finish up our coverage, quick 30 seconds on what this means to you. >> what it means to me is pope francis met 150 immigrants and refugees helped by catholic charities. he took time to meet those sometimes on the margin hurricanes became their voice. he greeted them. he spoke to them. he blessed them. he listened to them. to me, that was -- to me -- the high point of his trip and reaching out to those who need to hear his voice. >> now the plane is in the air, i think this is time to remember this was a stop on his world tour in 2015.
he will visit africa, asia, north america, south america and europe. he is bringing everyone, he wants everyone to be ready for december 8th, 2015 when he will open the year of mercy a chance for everyone to share in god's compassion. >> it certainly clear to say he's unstoppable. the pope with one lung who moves so quickly and with so much purpose in his step. we leave you with a special look now at some of the imagine cam moments from the man who earned his nickname "the people's po " pope". >> his message is very clear. he's a people person. he's for all of us. he's down to earth. >> i got to see him so close that it was a blessing. [ applause ] >> you only have one shot in your life to see the pope in
sglern the second my eyes saw him, i cried. >> i got to shake his hand and it felt like an energy of light went through my body. >> everyone has the same wonderful feeling that this is something very special. it's a holy, holy man. >> i kissed his ring an he put his hand on my forehead and he blessed me and looked at me. i know i will walk again because of this. >> holy father, we love you. >> just drove past me a little while ago. i could feel the strength coming on me. >> he spoke to me. and i spoke to him in spanish. >> he also touched me on the head like this. so now i'm going to tell my mom
to never to wash my hair again. >> lance is jewish and i'm protestant, but we are great respect for his humanity, for his message of peace. ♪ ♪ (vo) making the most out of every mile. that's why i got a subaru impreza. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. to help those in need. here to volunteer when a twinge of back pain surprises him. morning starts in high spirits but there's a growing pain in his lower back. as lines grow longer, his pain continues to linger.
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