years. when the health reform law nearly was in death in congress, nancy pelosi saved it. if you love obamacare or hate obamacare, you can blame or thank nancy pelosi for it. the speaker of the house really matters. it matters constitutionally, legislatively. our lives are sbamly different because of who has held that job at pivotal times. and so with this incredible chaos in washington today, it is a spectacle, it is exciting, it is fascinating to watch. but it is also unbelievably consequential, unbelievably consequential american politics. and how it gets resolved is up with of the most important things that will happen in our political lifetimes. and it is amazing to watch, but it is also serious business. and that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word." ari melber sitting in for lawrence tonight. conservative house republicans who made the job of speaker very hard for john

boehner now making john boehner look like he might not have been so bad after all. >> i think i shocked some of you, huh? >> mccarthy got up and announced he was pulling himself out of the race for speaker of the house. >> absolutely stunned. did not see that coming. >> and they're giving me a lot of credit for that. >> they want the tea party people to agree on the next leader. >> for us to unite, we proebabl need a fresh face. >> it's bedlam in washington right now. bedlam. >> unfortunately he's accurate this time, except it's really not funny. >> a substantial part of the republican party does not understand the importance of governance. >> if you have a political resume, it's a rap sheet. >> we cannot allow a small minority to blackmail the congress. >> there's nothing wrong with the republicans taking a tough stance and sticking with it. >> but now, who emerges from

this dumpster fire right now? i don't know. >> why don't you have an outsider come in? bill o'reilly, for example. >> i don't want to be speaker of the house. i have my own house to take care of. it's chaos there, believe me. >> this is big trouble for the republican party. >> good evening to you. i'm ari melber in for lawrence o'donnell. john boehner has been caused the least effective house speaker of all time by his critics and members of his own party. but today, many are asking compared to what? today, the big news, number two, kevin mccarthy dropped out of the race for speaker. he reportedly had as many as 200 vote annapolis's 80% of the 247 republicans in the house. but that wasn't enough for house republicans. as mccarthy explained in an interview today with "the national review." the house freedom caucus, whose members he would need to get up over the 218 on the house floor

said, he says they wanted things i could deliver. mccarthy realized i wouldn't have enjoyed being speaker this way. asked if the house is governable, he also tells those interviewers, quote, i don't know. sometimes you have to hit rock bottom. governing with a super majority is not supposed to be as hard as kicking addiction. there are only 42 house republicans in that freedom caucus, including republicans who voted against the debt ceiling agreement with john boehner and eric cantor, the one they brokered in 2011. that endangered the full faith and credit of the united states. that group includes people who voted against the 2012 fiscal cliff agreement that halted a tax increase on middle class americans and includes people who opposed reopening the government at all after ted cruz's shut down in 2013. that is why some republicans began warning today about who exactly they're dealing with. >> whoever is going to be the

next speaker should not appease this group of rejectionists who have no interest in governing. they can simply not get to yes. the perfect will always be the enemy of the good to them. >> that governing, specifically, will mean raising the debt ceiling by a deadline of november 5 and funding the federal government again by december 10. let's right to it. we have eugene robinson from "the washington post" and an msnbc analyst, an expert and resident at aei and the co-author of "it's even worse than it looks." and matt lewis for the daily caller. and matt, as the resident conservative writer here, what just happened? >> wow. today was shocking, earth shattering, actually. unbelievable. and i was just talking to one source who said paul ryan is like obi wan kenobi. help us, paul ryan, you're our last hope. >> i'm pretty sure the line from

"star wars" is you're our only hope. >> take us through what wept down. as usual, a lot of conventional wisdom in washington was wrong. the discussion of chaffitz and other challengers was that's a side show. now that or someone else is the main show. >> look, this freedom caucus inside the larger republican caucus is serious about what it wants to do or not do. and it has been all along. and so in retrospect with the, you know, perspective of four or five hours, it should not have been a surprise that they would balling at having another speaker who was essentially john boehner jr. who had been part of the leadership before, who had led them to these agreements that were necessary for the governance of the united states, but that they reject. this is a problem the republican party created for itself and is going to have to figure it out. >> norm, take a listen to what congressman peter king, a

republican, but one from new york. so he's not considered obviously part of the more extreme tea party groups, but take a listen to what he said about the serious constitutional nature of the vacancy now at the helm of the party. >> speaker is second in line to be president of the united states. and we have to get this resolved as quickly as possible. we can't allow a small minority in our party to hijack the party and blackmail the congress. john boehner step downs and mccarthy not being able to run because 30 people said they were going to withhold their votes, this goes against the basic rules of a representative democracy. >> norm? >> i would use another "star wars" analogy, ari. it's the bar scene, which is what the conference reminds me of. you know, one of the problems here, peter king was talking about maybe we've got to move in a different direction and develop a broader strategy, alliance with democrats. the problem is that today's

house republicans, if you took the moderate caucus, they could meet together in charlie dent's hot top. there are not enough of them. in the late 1990s, we had a similar situation. the shocking departure of bob livingston on the verge of taking over the speakership. and what happened? they immediately settled on somebody in the hierarchy, denny hastert, and everybody rallied behind him. it tells you the trajectory of the party that today you just don't see something like that happens. and if we may see john boehner stay for a while and maybe do some grand bargain that takes a lot of these issues off the stable. in the absence of that, i think we're headed for a substantial period of drift or maybe anarchy. and more than likely, if we get to a speaker, it's going to be somebody very significantly more intransgent on a lot of these issues than john boehner or even kevin mccarthy would have..

>> gene robinson, i think norm is putting his finger on a political point here. in the old day, if you were a young broadly popular congressman and your party said hey, we want you to be our consensus candidate for speaker, that's a big promotion. and yet people like paul ryan don't see that as a political path. according to his public statements today. >> right. and why would paul ryan want that job? that's the worst job in washington. that's one of the worst jobs in the united states right now. because, you know, as john boehner is fond of saying, the leader without followers is just a man taking a walk. and that's a position he found himself in. and that's where paul ryan would be, too. paul ryan is interested in governing the united states of america and passing legislation and doing things that congressmen and women do. and this caucus is not interested in it. so he either breaks the hastert rule and forms coalitions with democrats, which will eventually

cost him the speakership or he does nothing. it's a terrible situation to be in. >> yeah. and matt lewis, again, looking to you for the con b serve tif perspective, there is a view in modern conservatism that the federal government should be reformed and deregulated in a way that involving activity, right? when rick perry says we need to eliminate departments, that takes congress holding hearings, passing those laws. and so we've heard this in the terms of do more or do less, right? but really it's about status quo versus action. and you've got more republicans now saying hey, if we can't run our own shop, then we're stuck with status quo and we're going to come into 2016 with a super majority which is both a failure of what they ran on last time and may hurt them in the presidential. take a listen. that's my summation of it. it's not only my opinion. take a listen to david jolly, a republican who wasn't even for

mccarthy but raises that concern. >> we have gone from the do-nothing congress to a try-nothing congress. i would like to be a part of a congress that legislates and tackles hard issues and risks reelection, instead of doing nothing. we're not even trying. think about it. border security, transportation, taxes, budget. we're not doing that. we're not doing it because it's a calculated decision by leadership who wants to get to the next election as opposed to legislating today. >> i think there's a populist moment happening right now. and there's a lot of anger and frustration on both sides of the aisle. it's manifesting in things like donald trump. and i think some of what's happening in the house right now. there's a coincidence tonight, actually. paul ryan is supposed to be at a book party. mort kondrake and fred barnes have a book out about jack kemp, who was paul ryan's mentor, one

of his mentors. obviously paul ryan did not make it to that book party. but i think that's really telling. jack kemp was a hard core conservative, but somebody who had big ideas. things like opportunity zones, things like the laugher curve he introduced ronald reagan to, supply side economics. like it or not, those were bold ideas and he believed in governing in congress and was a very effective congressman. i think that some of the republican members today might want to look at jack kemp as a model and paul ryan, if he is to be speaker will have jack kemp on his shoulder, i think. >> norm, doesn't that go to the question at what point does the black lash merit its own back laesh for republicans? >> of course it does. but keep in mind, ari, that on the presidential campaign side, you have john kasich who made --

>> did we lose norm? do we have anyone else? anyone else want to pick up where norm left off, eugene? >> well, i wouldn't try to pick up for norm, i would point out, however, one thing, which is that you don't have to be an elected member of congress to have a speaker of the house. the speaker of the house could be anybody. so maybe -- and this is really getting into sort of, you know, bad washington novel terrain -- >> bing bring it, gene. >> maybe you look way outside to some republican elder statesman or some figure held in high esteem to sort of preside over the house for a little while until they can get their act together. that's a possibility. it probably won't happen, but it's a possibility. >> right. speaker ben carson who would satisfy the base? >> yeah, that's not going to happen. i can confidently predict that's

not going to happen. >> i want to apologize to norm ornstein. it was not censorship. we lost the satellite. i want to thank matt lewis and gene robinson. chris van holland will be here to talk about this republican chaos in the house of representatives. also donald trump as we mentioned. he started to take credit for mccarthy dropping out of the race. what does that mean? the u.s. ruling out any serious partnership with russia in syria. as russia builds up the ground forces. stay with us. i will take beauty into my own hands. olay regenerist. it regenerates surface cells. new skin is revealed in only 5 days. without drastic measures.

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republicans failed to pick their speaker based on republican votes today. and one of them now saying maybe they should try again with help from democrats. >> a challenge for our conference is quite simple. we need to assemble bipartisan coalitions to pass any important legislation around here. we may have to assemble a bipartisan coalition to elect the next speaker of the house. >> reflecting optimism or maybe desperation. joining us now to explain, democratic congressman chris van holland. which is it for republicans here, talking about working with your party to get this done. sit optimistic or is it desperate? >> well, ari, i'm afraid it's desperate. a bit of a hail mary pass. if someone wants to give us a call we're obviously willing to listen. but the problem we've got here for the country is that this dysfunction in the republican caucus poses serious risks to our governance going forward.

the it's taking a bad situation, making it worse. we've got a lot of big issues, threats of government shutdowns in a few months, dealing with the debt ceiling. and so this kra i don't say is creating even more instability and uncertainly that will hurt the economy. >> you say you're willing to listen. as you say, you' been through these fights and you're talking about more responsible way of governing. democrats across the ideological spectrum say they would rather see boehner remain at the top of the house than replace him with a more conservative speaker who they say would almost certainly be less willing to reach across the aisle. that was a working plan or theory at one point. are you saying here tonight that you would work with the republicans here on a bipartisan speaker vote? >> what i'm saying is we stand ready to work with republicans on a bipartisan basis to deal with the budget issues and other issues we hoped to work with speaker boehner on.

one thing i hope in the coming weeks, as the republicans work through the chaos in their caucus, i do believe that speaker boehner has a responsibility to the country to make sure that whoever is the next speaker is not left with a huge mess. and so there's a big pileover stuff we can do for the coming weeks if speak isser boehner was willing to step up and do it. the problem, as you know is the tea party extremists who have been em ppowered through their departure. they have a group of tea party members who don't have the votes to elect the speaker they want. but constantly threaten to overturn any speaker they don't like if they don't get their way 100%. >> so let's dig in on that. i want to play mccarthy speaking very recently to jake tapper about whether he had the votes. take a listen. >> speaking of votes, do you have the votes? will you have the next peek speaker, have you looked it up?

>> i feel very good about where i'm at. >> that sounds yes, you have the votes. >> i feel very good thabout whe i'm at. >> unpack this 218 number. he had a majority of his can you kus and he could have worked with democrats if he wanted. it's almost as if he would rather not get the job than do it on a bipartisan basis. >> i don't know all the reasons kevin mccarthy decided to withdraw. one was a fear that he couldn't get a majority of the votes on the floor of the house. but as you just pointed out, no republicans have reached out to democrats, whether it relates to this election for speaker or on these big issues that we're confronting right now. the best way to perceive would be for them to get their act together, get a speaker who is willing to work with democrats. but the problem in the caucus right now n that republican caucus is that those people who

don't want to talk to democrats and address these important issues are the ones who are more emboldened than ever. so that's why i say, ari, it's really important that speaker boehner use his remaining time to at least address the huge issues before us right now. >> but on the news of the day here, is this what victory looks like to the freedom caucus? >> well, this is the dilemma. never in my experience in recent history have you seen a faction of one party -- in this case, the extreme tea party faction -- saying if they don't get their way within their caucus, they're going to shut down the entire congress and threaten to shut down the entire country if they don't get 100% of what they want. and so that's why it's such a dangerous situation for the country and with respect to governance right now. ma that's why i want to emphasize that it's important for the speaker to step up. i just introduced today the

preventing government shutdown act that come december we're not left in the lurch once again. but as you know, this is a chaotic situation. you know, we just got word that a budget committee session that we had scheduled for tomorrow has been postponed till later in the day. they're going to have a caucus meeting to figure out what the next step is. >> i saw the draft legislation you laid out that has a plan b. there wouldn't be a shutdown and a dicing of sequester cut, which is interesting. thanks for talking to us tonight. >> thank you. good to be with you. >> and coming up, why donald trump think he's actually responsible for mccarthy dropping out of the race for speaker of the house.

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we tweeted great, we need a really smart, really tough person to take over this very important job. other republican presidential candidates also welcoming the change and calling for an outsider to take over. jeb bush praised florida representative daniel webster who does have the backing of the conservative house freedom caucus. >> i think kevin mccarthy was a good person, a good man. i'm surprised he dropped out. i'm not going to interject myself into a political vote inside the house caucus. dan webster is one of my closest friends in the political process. he is a principle centered guy. you will never meet someone with the integrity of dan webster. others might emerge as well. i just hope they stay focused on making sure people know they're trying to solve problem for people. >> and rand paul sees the decision as a win for people an a sign of where the party is

headed. >> the grassroots and conservatives across the country are unhappy with congress because they don't think that a republican-controlled house and a republican-controlled senate are doing enough to exert the power of the purse, or push back against the president. and i think that's what this represents. is that people in the house are saying enough is enough. we want something new. >> joining us now is howard dean, former governor of vermont and former chair of the dnc, plus molly ball from the atlantic. and back with us, gene robinson from "the washington post." hello, everybody. howard dean, this is ultimately a contest for the nominee to be the most important republican. what do you make to different reactions of this on the campaign trail. >> why am i not surprised donald trump taking credit for all this. i thought the next thing he was going to say is we need someone really smart and really tough, so i'll do it. >> constitutionally he can. >> that's right. this is spectacular politically here.

i don't think i've ever seen a year like this before where you really do have complete chaos in both the nominating process for the republicans and the house, which valely surprising. >> let me play a little ben carson. a lot of people who say they're not washington dance around this story. here's carson. >> i say kudos to representative mccarthy. for putting others before himself. this is not something we see very often in washington. i hope this is a trait that will be emulated by others as time goes on, because we have a lot of problems that have to be solved and none of us should put ourselves ahead of those problems. >> that's fine, molly, but at a certain point, do you feel like all of this talk and nobody is using the power and influence they have on the republican side to put forward an alternative name? >> the question is, who is there who could do it, who wants to do

it? the question about john boehner was whether he was bad at his job or whether his job was actually impossible. there's always this theory that maybe somebody could do a better job, but if there's nobody who could actually get the votes and nobody who wants to do it, then that's tough to do. there's rumors flying. i just spoke to a house republican member who said there's actually a group of members trying to draft newt gingrich to do it. paul ryan is -- >> you are not serious. >> this is actually happening. this could be a rumor. it's just something one member told me. >> you're saying -- i want to be clear, you're saying you spoke to a current member of the house republican caucus who said this? >> who said that this is something that somebody else is doing. not something this particular member is doing. there's word that paul ryan is reconsidering. there's a lot of other people considering it. maybe putting their hats in the ring. but it's a chaotic situation. it's an unexpected situation. and, you know, as howard said, we don't know how this is going to play out. it's very unusual. and it's the same chaos in the

presidential race. >> it may be early in the sense that a lot of voters aren't quite following the presidential race yet. but i do think in the general election whenned you had the financial crisis and you had this live action test of the reaction of candidates, and many folks felt that john mccain had a very political stubt reaction saying i'm going to suspend my campaign, but i don't actually have something to do. suspend and no action. and people -- some people felt that then senator obama was more measured and detailed about what he wanted to do. is this a test point for people who want the lead the republican party but have no specifics about this most important test facing it? >> if it is, it looks like they're all going to fail because they're not coming up with a solution for this. this is all part of the same intraparty food fight that the republicans are having. so in a sense, donald trump did not cause this, but donald trump's ascension is part of the

same schism inside of the party that is -- and i don't know how this gets worked out, i really don't. the republicans created this big and unruly tent. they invited in the tea party members, they cultivated them. they said we're going to do all this stuff, and, of course, the stuff they said they were going to do was impossible. like repeal obama care over a presidential veto, et cetera, et cetera. and so people get angry and disillusioned and dig in. and it doesn't seem to be a clear end to this. >> there's a couple scenarios. you're not going to get a paul ryan to take this job because it's a career ender. as molly said, the reason that boehner failed is not just because boehner is not that strong of a leader, it's because it is an impossible job given the intransjens of the tea party. there are two possibilities. one is you br i think in an outsider. gingrich did work with clinton

to get stuff done. two, he's got nothing to lose. i don't think he has further ambitions in politics. and three, he actually knows the job. so that's not a crazy idea. and the third idea is that you put somebody from the tea party from the chair and let them see if they can govern the house. they're going to fall on their face. this is a terrible idea for the country, but then the republican party would clearly blow themselves up, because they would find that either they were passing stuff that was completely insane, or they couldn't pass anything at all. >> to that point, molly, the reason why some poeld people would say gingrich is a wild idea is that he ultimately was part of impeachment driving republicans -- >> that's true, but -- >> the last time we saw this kind of chaos was when gingrich stepped down and there were scandals and confusion. >> but molly, to howard's second point. okay, fine, after all this, let the tea party run it.

chaffitz for utah would be positioning himself for that, rie right? >> the freedom caucus didn't endorse caffitz. they endorsed webster. he has sort of a mixed record on some of their stuff. i think the problem with the republican caucus has always been the freedom caucus guys, tea party guys are a minority. the majority of the caucus doesn't want that. i have a hard time seeing the majority raise someone who's part of the branch. >> you could be technically the most powerful republican and you still lose out to these guys. everyone else who's rank and file doesn't want to be the point edge of that spear. we sot new sound from paul ryan. let's listen to that. >> my statement stands.

i have nothing to add right now. >> gene robinson, you're an expert. do you want to decode that? >> well, there's going to be enormous pressure on paul rye nan. he was a vice presidential candidate. he's sort of a figure of stature in the house. people immediately mentioned his name when this happened today. apparently john boehner approached him. mccarthy wants him to be pressure. however, as howard said, it is a career ender, this job. even if you get the endorsement, guess what? you can't keep it. you can't b do what they want. >> and that's a question for folks who talk a lot about public service. how does paul ryan respond that this is not just service this is ambition. and molly, thank you for joining us. we're going to move to some other subjects. ben carson defending rupert murdoch in his controversial tweet over, quote, a real black president, end quote. and first, another important

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russian warships launch cruise missiles during a major ground offensive. 26 missiles fired from almost 1,000 mile ace way. they teergting isis strong holds and rebel forces who oppose syrian president bashar al-assad. however, senior u.s. defense officials saying four of those missiles fell short of their targets and landed in iran. the russian ministry of defense reportedly denying that claim and another big concern for u.s. officials is that russia did not notify the u.s. or coalition forces of this plan ahead of time. they have to fly through iraqi and syrian air space where the u.s. coalition is conducting air strikes. yesterday, the pentagon announced u.s. aircraft flying over syria were rerouted at least one time in order to keep a safe distance from this russian aircraft. and here's how senator john mccain thinks we should respond to russia.

>> we need to first of all tell the russians we're going to fly wherever we want to and however we want to. then we have to take the offense in this respect. rather than keep reacting to russian and syrian behavior, we have to establish the no-fly zones, a sanctuary for the refugees, stop the barrel bombing. we have trained thousands ofdown syrians, sent them into syria and now we're watching them being attacked by russian aircraft and killed and maimed. this is immorrall. it's not only wrong, it's immorrall. >> it's complicated, but one aspect is pretty clear. russia has been a quiet friend to assad for a long time.

there's a concern on russia's part this regime could fall. >> russia does not want that to happen. i don't think putin is bosom buddies with bashar, but bashar al-assad represents the syrian state has it's existed since assad's father was in offense. the russians have a naval base in syria. it's in that sense a close relationship. it's one that russia wants to keep and therefore they're going to prop up the syrian state. they can do it. assad still has a military force and with russian backing, h he can fight off the rebels, i think. >> as you're speak on the screen, we're showing some of the footage from the russian ministry, that is to say, howard, this is part of their messaging or propaganda. if this gets real and stays

real, then russia is going to pay its price. take a listen. they have initiated a joint ground offensive, shattering the facade that they're there to fight isil. this will have consequences for russia itself. which is rightfully fearful of attack upon russia. i also suspect in the coming days the russians will suffer casualties in syria. >> governor? >> this is the first time in a very long time, having anything to do with the middle east that i agreed with john mccain. in order to solve the refugee problem in europe, we have to have a safe haven and it has to be in syria. and we need a no-fly zone. hillary clinton is right and the president is wrok about this. i'm not for blustering with the russians. i think we just have to tell the russians this is what we're doing. it worked in iraq for a long time george h.w. bush had a

no-fly zone over the kurds. it allowed them to develop a society that turned out to be the best fighting force in that region, other than the turkish army. >> as you know, the counterargument to that, governor, is that creates a box we're trying to put russia in as they will view as escalation and that we may have to patrol. >> the russians -- this comes from harry fruman's years. the russians only understand one thing, how many divisions you have. i'm not advocating getting into a war with russia, but we're going to get beat in the ukraine, we're going to get beat in georgia and we're going to get beat in syria unless we're willing to confront the russians. i don't believe unless we're really hostile to the russians that they're going to attack the united states, any country with a significant number of united states troops in it. and i think that's what we're going to have to do. i' not interested in fighting the russians. i am interested in deterring their very aggressive behavior, because we always end up paying for that in the long run if we don't deter.

if we deter early, it's a lot cheaper in terms of lives and money than it is if you wait. >> and gene, if you talk to folks in this obama ed administrati administration, they say it's a lot number than it looks. >> yeah, they've been very solid, very incremental. and there are reasons for that. syria is a problem from hell. it is a multisided civil war. it has been very, very difficult to find allies who we believe share our values and our goals. to train and to arm and to send into this battle. it has not been easy. it's not going to be easy now. i understand howard dean's sentiment that we need to do something. i'm not sure what, however. >> it's not something we're solving right here, but a lot of folks keeping an eye on this as it does escalate with the russian air involvement. thank you both. >> thanks, ari.

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rupert murdoch attempting to talk about blackness. an australian-born american citizen with plenty of experience in american politics shows he is still struggling to figure out how to address race in america even when he's trying to praise ben carson. this all began wednesday night when he went online to plug a fox news interview with dr. carson and his wife. here's what murdoch wrote on twitter. quote, ben and candy carson, terrific. what about a real black president who can properly

address the racial divide and much else, end quote. five minutes later, he retweeted read new york magazine for minority disappointment with potus. there is certainly a genuine public debate on urban policy. it's what you can see in and beyond minority communities in the u.s., but you can be sure you will not begin that kind of debate if it begins by questioning who, in murdoch's words is, quote, a real black president, end quote. now faced with this huge backlash, you can imagine murdoch weighed in today and said, apologies. no offense meant. personally fine both men charming. and in a twitter gift ben carson probably doesn't really want. he was asked about this and he replied today. >> i know rupert murdoch he's not a racist by any stretch of the imagination. he's expressing his opinion. it's much ado about nothing. i believe what he was making reference to was the fact that

here was a man who, as a black president, that the black community was very excited about, who came in and whose policies have not really elevated the black community. >> is president obama a real black president? >> well, he's the president and he's black. >> yes. the answer is something everyone can agree on. end of story. now coming up, the sandy hook massacre survivor responding to a different issue today. ben carson's new comments about guns and mass shootings in america. e"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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up next, the teacher's classroom who was next door of the sandy hook shooting. isle ask her about ben carson's latest comments on last week's shooting in oregon. bring us your aching

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hey insurance companies, news flash. nobody's perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. >> i left my 7-year-old this morning as he headed to first grade. as he headed to first grade. 7-year-olds populating a classroom not unlike those who walked into a quiet school in newtown, connecticut. the kids in oregon aren't safe, and kids in a small town in connecticut aren't safe, then my son isn't safe either. this is personal for all of us. and it's why we are all committed to make sure that even during this moment of political

absence on capitol hill we don't lie down. >> that was chris murphy at a press conference today where he and other senate democrats outlined another plan to reduce gun violence. those reforms would include strengthening the background checks system, banning straw purchases as well as tougher gun restrictions on domestic abusers. two years ago a similar plan after a massacre in newtown, connecticut failed to pass the senate. tomorrow urks t tomorrow, the president will meet with victims and families of the shooting last week. kaitlyn nose all too well the pain of last week's survivors of the shooting what they might be feeling right now. she hid herself and her class of 15 first graders in a tiny bathroom as six of her co-workers and 20 first graders were gunned down that day. we all remember that day at sandy hook elementary. she has a new book "choosing

hope" where she writes about her darkest hour. we'll squeezed together like a tight fist. i can't bear to think their last moments will be spent this way. in fear, i must reassure them even though i don't believe my own words. it's going to be okay. we're going to be okay, i say. joining us now is caitli caitlin roig debellis. this is horrific, each individual mass murder for people far away from them, it can become sharing your though what you took from the most recent shooting there. >> well, first my prayers and my thoughts go out to their entire community, to the victims to those who knew and loved them. unfortunately, it's a pain that

i know all too well. i am so grateful that in our country we are having the conversations about gun sense, about gun safety, about trying to make our community safer. because it is crucial and it needs to be discussed. >> you look at that and you look at the discussion and some of it doesn't feel that enlightening. dr. ben carson talking about this. i'm going to play what he said to get your response here on cnn today. >> so whether it's a kindergarten teacher who was well trained or a retired policeman or someone who can stop the carnage. >> so you're recommending, correct me if i'm wrong, elementary schools have armed guards, or at least the teachers be armed. >> i am saying that they should have some mechanism whereby they can defend themselves. >> your view of that argument when you've lived through this

as you were with so many students in a bathroom? >> i'm a teacher. my training is in elementary education. i have my masters and two honorary doctorates in that. that is my expertise, that is what i know how to do. that is my responsibility. as a teacher, i would not want my responsibility to be to carry a gun or know how to use it. >> and so you don't think that's -- from your experience in the classroom, you don't think that's necessarily the way we should go or a viable response? >> well, it's my opinion, i wouldn't want that responsen't. my best interest is my students, the children in my care. >> tell us about where you've gone from here. because one of the criticisms of the way the political process works and the media to some degree is a lot of attention on these things and then everyone just moves on. from what you did that day and what you lived through to the organization you founded to, i believe, 3450e9 meeting the president. what are you doing to continue to, who on the issue? >> there is no moving on.

december 14, 2012 is a part of me every single day and it always will be. there is always moving forward, though. and moving forward with purpose and doing >> i think it's awareness. it's awareness that having that conversation and discussions. as i said, i'm an educator to know that there are people who they have in the background. they have the tools