Skip to main content

tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  December 15, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PST

7:00 pm
we're posting the whole thing. it's great. killer mike has already endorsed bernie sanders in the rice for the white house. he seems to be the head of a surge of rap art pips there's even a hip hop for bernie sanders pod cast. he's doing great in new hampshire, filling big room across the country. but as one of the oldest guys to run for president tanking with black voters which is an important part of the electric rat, the hip hop booster caucus has got to be a very welcomed surprise. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> it's certainly a surprise to me, rachel. >> yes. >> thanks, rachel. there are nine debaters on the stage at the fifth republican presidential debate tonight, but most of that first hour, isolated marco rubio versus ted cruz in what could be the real battle for the republican
7:01 pm
presidential nomination. and while they were at it, donald trump managed to demonstrate that he doesn't know what the internet actually is. joining us now, stuart stevens, columnist for the daily beast and former chief strategist for mitt romney's presidential campaign. also with us, steve schmidt, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst and maria teresa kumar, president and ceo of voto latino. stuart, let's start with you. your reaction to that first hour? >> i thought it was a terrible debate for donald trump. he adoesn't understand what the internet is. he seems to think you can go around and unplug it from different places. he's a ridiculous figure, and the more this goes on, the more ridiculous he looks. i tho ugt that chrchris christi well. he presents himself as a sane candidate of strength. if this becomes a choice of who is a stronger candidate on
7:02 pm
questions of national security, he has the fact that he's not a member of congress. that distinguish himself. and in the cruz versus rubio, i just that cruz is tremendously unlikable person. and rubio, i think, is swn you're drawn to. you like rubio. he seems to know what he's talking about. and he has a command of the moment much more so than cruz. >> we couldn't be luckier to have stuart stevens who ran the last republican presidential campaign and now steve schmidt who ran the republican presidential campaign before that, john mccain's campaign. stooe, you and stuart have been there. you've. in those debate hall, wh you've been in debate prep with candidates going into these things. what's your scorecard on this first hour? >> i think one of the things that's starting to play out in the race is the narrowing of the field to three distinct brackets. we have donald trump. his poll numbers continue to move upwards. he's now over 40% in a number of national polls.
7:03 pm
ted cruz has eemerged as the ideological figure in this campaign. he can certainly win one of these early states. then i think right now there's the third bracket, that's the establishment bracket. what's driving the ballot for republican primary voters in this election is strength. you saw jeb bush tonight. this was jeb bush's best debate. but if these numbers don't move for jeb bush after this debate, it means his campaign is effectively over. chris christie, very good tonight. chris christie in new hampshire is moving up in the numbers. and chris christie has to be able to take market share from john kasich to be able to collapse those numbers. take a point or two out of carly fiorina, and christie and rubio, there's only room for one of them, as this race starts to narrow into the trump bracket, the cruz bracket. it's either going to be rubio or krais christie, i suspect,
7:04 pm
hanging out in that third position. as this race starts to go deep. >> maria teresa, your reaction to the first hour? >> i think you're right. you're seeing the three different parts of the republican party. what i found interesting is jeb not only came out fighting but he also made sense and he was clear and it was very clear that the person on the losing end of this tonight rite now is donald trump. the fact that the applause, every single time someone attacked donald trump and there was applause that broke out into the theatre also signals that perhaps he's not the front-runner any longer. the fact that rubio and cruz went toe to toe, and i believe that rubio came out on top only came out a lot stronger. finally, you look atrophy yes or no tha-- fiorina, she's not doi as well as she did in the first two debates. she's trooing to elbow her way in, but she reese not able to provide that ability and that space that she needs.
7:05 pm
the one that is flailing is carson. when he was asked a direct question, if he would feel badly if children were killed 234 the war on isis, he wouldn't say no. that's the lack of depth that he has when it comes to engaging in war. the fact that that he couldn't have a stance when he was asked how he should react to the patriot war when you have that little tiff between cruz and rubio, he doesn't know. it shows a lack of his own lack of credentials when it comes to international affairs. >> jeb bush's big moments were at the beginning where he called donald trump a chaos candidate, and that he would be a chaos president. he then had a big line, a big reaction in the hall anyway, which doesn't mean much, because the voters are not in the hall. got a big cheer when bush said you're not going to be able to insult your way to the presidency. stuart, can bush somehow save
7:06 pm
his campaign tonight? >> i don't think he can save it tonight, but i think the path for jeb bush is to show strength by attacking the person who is seen as strong. this is a barroom fight, you walk into the bar, find the biggest guy and you hit him. 350e78 are drawn to the shark, not the pilot fish. you' got to go in there and show strength. i think it's as good for jeb bush to do it. he ought to keep doing it. and you've got to put donald trump under pressure. pressure, pressure, pressure, and see how he responds. you know if you've ever watched twitter, the guy responds to everything. if you're a 14-year-old in a basement in moscow, you could start a nuclear war with this guy if he was president. so i think you have to just keep at it.
7:07 pm
what i have been baffled by is why no one has turned to donald trump and looked him in the eye and said dopd, you are a ridiculous candidate for president and see how he reacts. >> steve, to stuart's point about going after donald trump, the energy issue comes up. his favorite term, the energy issue. we saw bush go after trump, but he did it with that half hearted energy that trump talks about. you look at the energy that marco rubio was throwing a the ted cruz and the energy that ted cruz was throwing back at rubio, that was a real fight. that was each one of those guys was trying as hard as they could in that moment to take down the other. we don't see anybody try to hit donald trump the way marco rubio was trying to hit ted cruz. >> no, certainly not. and look, stuart is exactly right. the way that you engage donald trump is through the aspects of his personality that have been dominant in this race. and that's the narcissism.
7:08 pm
you hit him in the ego. you go after him through the prism. of laughter. you mock him, you make fun of him. that's how you put him under pressure. you don't directly engage him on substance. very clearly, as we watch this play out over the last couple of months, the one thing that should be very clear is there's severability between conservatism and issues. people want strength in this race. so the way that you have to go at him is not by having a superior policy position. or say hey, i have a white paper on that subject. so none of these candidates has engaged donald trump in quite the right way. but for all of these candidates, right, who are, you know, very close to being eliminated functionally from the race as these brackets start to narrow, this is a contest of strength. are they going to be able to show the strength necessary to
7:09 pm
fill essentially the third space in what's going to become a three bracket race as we come out of new hampshire and start heading south? >> maria teresa, there are polls indicating in the one-on-one matchups, hillary clinton with republicans. and these are, we can all agree, far-fetched polls because they're so far off in the future. nar co rubio does best against himry clinton in the one-on-one poll. is that what you saw tonight, from the clinton administration perspective, the person you do not want to see emerge from this field is marco rubio. >> he's the one that was the most stayed. even when they were engaging with him on the immigration issue, he was the best to navigate it. he was the one again who has the most gravitas at the end of the day. but let's go back to this idea that cruz engaged too early with trump trying to befriend him. the reason that cruz did that in my opinion is because he is trying to make sure that he gets the win wind fall of supporters
7:10 pm
of trump once trump leaves. he recognizes the only way to do that is to make sure there's no light shining between them. and that's why he had such trouble behind closed doors. he was mocking trump. and he realized oh, shoot, people saw that. again, he needs the donald trump sup poerts in order to have a shot at the white house. >> what about that, stuart? that's what everyone has been saying not to take the hard shot to trump and say you're ridiculous, you're saying to 27% or 30% of the republican electorate that you people who support him are ridiculous. >> listen, i think it's completely wrong way to look at it personally. picture in your mind every prison movie you've ever seen or prisoner of war movie you' eve ever seen. this is about the tough guy on the yard. you don't get to be the tough guy on the yard by being nice to the tough guy on the yard. you have to go out there and you have to knock that person out and show that you're stronger.
7:11 pm
then those people who were loyal to the tough guy will then be loyal to you. >> but stuart, i think that this is where we have to actually have a conversation on race. cruz can't do that to trump because the majority of his supporters are not necessarily embracing cruz as an hispanic, but as a tea partier. if he were to do that, folks would all of a sudden see him as being defensive to the very core of what a lot of the trump supporters are. and if we don't actually discuss that dynamic between cruz and trump, then we're actually missing, i think, a lot of the bigger picture. >> listen, i think that you have to acknowledge that donald trump is toxic for the republican party. he's losing to hillary clinton by double digits. and i hope that when republicans vote they're going to acknowledge that. he's losing now by double digits in iowa. i don't think he's going to win new hampshire. i don't think he's going to win a primary. but i could be wrong about that. but i think that the way to beat donald trump is not by being
7:12 pm
nice to him, it's to beat him, to prove that he's wrong, to prove that's not a serious candidate. now, jeb, as you say, has the right words. but he needs to be more confrontational about it. he needs to get in his face more. and i think ted cruz's whole, i'm just going to feed the alligator in hopes that he'll eat me last. to me, it's just -- it's the wrong approach. it won't work. >> all right. >> that's a good picture. >> no one is going to top that line so we're going to leave it right there and go to a break. thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. now to talk about the idea of a brokered convention, stuart stevens is going to come back. mitch mcconnell doesn't think it's going to happen. that's one of the things we're going to be discussing coming up. alsory clinton laid out her plan to fight isis today. we'll take a look at the details to see if she has come up with anything different from what we're already doing.
7:13 pm
and it was a force of a shutdown of all public schools in los angeles today. the investigation of that coming up. ♪ (vo) some call it giving back. we call it share the love. during our share the love event, get a new subaru, and we'll donate $250 to those in need. bringing our total donations to over sixty-five million dollars. and bringing love where it's needed most. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. i tabut with my back paines, i couldn't sleep and get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists.
7:14 pm
polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day.
7:15 pm
>> lindsay graham was not impressed with mike huckabee's responses on fighting isis in the earlier debate. >> if they're going to come in here to kill us they're not going to say yeah, i'm coming to kill you. they're going to lie about it. anybody who will kill you, for god's sake, will lie to you. that's why i say it's impractical. if you take away their way to fund weaponry and terrorism, they don't have terrorism. >> you're shaking head, senator graham. >> coming up, hillary clinton explains her plan to fight isis.
7:16 pm
♪ centrum brings us the biggest news... in multivitamin history. a moment when something so familiar... becomes something so...new. introducing new centrum vitamints. a multivitamin that contains a full spectrum of essential nutrients... you enjoy like a mint. new centrum vitamints. the coolest way yet... to get your multivitamins.
7:17 pm
>> some have used words that i think are inappropriate, like hoax, whether it's criminal mischief, somebody testing vulnerabilities of multiple cities, we still do not know enough to say definitively. what we do know is it will be safe for our children to return to school tomorrow. >> the good news, they'll be going back to school. students in the los angeles unified school district will return to class tomorrow after an e-mail threat shut down every public school in los angeles today. the district's superintendent made the decision in light of
7:18 pm
the nearby san bernadino massacreless than two weeks ago. a similar e-mail threatened attack against new york city public school, but classes there weren't canceled. this morning, new york city police say they worked with the fbi and determined that the threat wasn't credible and they're investigating the e-mail as a hoks. jo -- hoax. joining us now, a former "los angeles times" reporter here with us in new york, jonathan deinst, a contributing correspondent and wnb chief investigative reporter. jonathan, is there a time difference in terms of how much time new york had to deal with this threat? did they have more time to analyze it or less time to analyze it than l.a. had? >> i understand that l.a. had more time. and the nypd became aware of this around 6:00 this morning. but because of what's in the letter, they quickly determined it was not credible. the writer says there are 138 fellow high school jihadists who
7:19 pm
are armed with rifle, bombs, hand grenades, gas, and we're going to attack every school in this city. a similar threat was made in the los angeles letter, not as many high school jihadists. they said just 32 in that letter. so the nypd quickly in consultation with the fbi decided this is most likely a -- >> do we know actually what time they made this decision in new york? because they didn't go public with it until after l.a. went public, radio eight? was it possible that maybe new york wasn't going to say anything about it until l.a. went public? >> look, the new york city police department gets three to five of these kinds of letters and threats to schools a week. that's 115 plus a year. and 75 to 80% are deemed not credible right off the bat, given what's in the letter, where it comes from, what their best assessment is. so they put the letter that was received today in that 75 to 85%
7:20 pm
of instant not credible based on what was in the letter and the extraordinary claims that were being made. then around 9:00 eastern, that's when the nypd and l.a. got together about the two letter, but certainly by 6:00 a.m. or so before the new york city schools open, the nypd and fbi were in the process of making the determination of we don't think there's much here. >> andrew, it was fascinating to watch the way things unfolded in l.a. today, having had a child in the l.a. public school system. she was able to actually walk to school from my house, so in many case, that would have been a relatively easy thing to deal with today. but for most parents in that system, this was chaotic. they had to change their work days to figure out how to handle the situation with their children. and watching the reaction in l.a., there seems to be some kind of reaction saying that, you know, at a certain point it became unclear to me what people
7:21 pm
were hoping for. like they were hoping to discover that it was a real threat so that there was a real reason to do all this today. and if we discover that there wasn't a real threat, we should somehow be unhappy about discovering that it wasn't a real threat. >> well, it sets off this mad scramble because everything is choreographed. you have traffic and getting to work and then to find out that all those plans go out the window. obviously traffic gets worse and worse every year. you have to find a place if your kids to be, a safe place. and so that's the first thought that goes through everybody's head. i mean, up with of the things that happened is, as we referenced earlier, this threat was discovered out here in l.a. at about 10:00 last night. so it was being worked by local, state and federal nauf authorities. at some point early in the morning, the superintendent of schools for the l.a. unified school district has to make the call. they have to decide whether the
7:22 pm
buses start rolling. and they've been given a certain set of information. and they want to he wants a certain measure of certainty that those students are going to be safe. while law enforcement people that i talked to said that they thought that it wasn't a credible threat for the superintendent of schools, he wanted more certainty. and that was why the decision was made ultimately to close all the schools. >> jonathan, do we have any indication of whether new york -- i mean, i'm getting the impression that new york deals with more of these than l.a. >> i don't have the l.a. number. i told you it's about 115 plus just school threats in new york city. >> do we have an l.a. number comparable to that? >> no. one of the things that they did, i don't know if you recall that there was a spate of celebrity cases where people would call up and say that there was someone being held hostage at a celebrity's house or a shooting. and then s.w.a.t. teams would show up.
7:23 pm
well, one of the things that the lapd did and other law enforcement agencies have followed suit was to not publicize those cases. so in cases of bomb threats, unless it's a lot of people showing up, and then the news kind of follows that, they tend not to publicize those cases. in fact, one of the schools in manhattan beach, mira costa high school this week had three bomb threats. the last one, they closed schools. >> andrew and jonathan, thank you both for joining me today. really appreciate it. coming up, hillary clinton has an answer to ted cruz's carpet bombing plan.
7:24 pm
if yand you're talking toevere rheumyour rheumatologiste me, about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection.
7:25 pm
talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work they are. do i look smarter? yeah, a little. you're making money now, are you investing? well, i've been doing some research. let me introduce you to our broker. how much does he charge? i don't know. okay. uh, do you get your fees back if you're not happy? (dad laughs) wow, you're laughing. that's not the way the world works. well, the world's changing. are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management, at charles schwab. help individualize our cancer treatment? now through advanced genomic testing, we may be able to pinpoint and diagnose what makes your cancer different, which can reveal precise treatment options that were not considered previously. with this important breakthrough at the intersection of science and technology, we've arrived at precision cancer treatment. the evolution of cancer care is here at cancer treatment centers of america.
7:26 pm
call or visit cancercenter.com to learn more about precision cancer treatment.
7:27 pm
>> we will defeat these new enemies just as we have defeated those who have threatened us in the past. because it is not enough to contain isis. we must defeat isis, break its momentum and then its back. >> hallry clinton gave a speech toured on how to fight isis. not surprisingly, it did not include anything that president obama isn't already doing. >> we need a comprehensive strategy to counter each step in the process that can lead to an attack like the one in san bernadino. first, we have to shut down isis recruitment in the united states, especially online. second, stop would-be jihadists
7:28 pm
from getting training oversea, and top foreign terrorists from coming here. third, discover and disrupt plots before they can be carried out. fourth, support law enforcement officers who risk their lives to prevent and respond to attacks. and fifth, empower our muslim-american communities who are on the frontlines of the fight against radicalization. >> joining us now, the professor of communication at georgia state university and the author of the book "dying to kill." the allure of suicide terror. also back with us, jonathan altar nbc political analyst. i did not hear anything there that we haven't been successful at doing or that we aren't trying to do already. >> that's true. i think that's why democrats are a little bit on the defensive right now. >> but i haven't heard any such thing from a republican either,
7:29 pm
other than carpet bombing. >> no. republicans have no alternative. they don't want ground troops. if they wanted ground troop, then we have a debate. but that's not the position of squabbling republicans. the advantage the hillary clinton has, she and the president sound like adults. the republicans sound like children. the democrats are not responding robustly enough to the fears of the american people. and the american people sense kr correctly that what we've been doing has not been working. and have been look for some kind of a change in strategy, and they're not finding it. so somehow there's a little bit of tone deafness that's going on here. erg she says sounds good. it's adult, it's necessary. but insufficient. >> and, you know, it just sounds to me like you've got to say something, so we'll just say the
7:30 pm
same old stuff we all say. did you hear anything there that you think will work? am i shortchanging this thing? >> well, part of the problem is on the one hand, hillary clinton is saying carpet bombing and bombing until the desert glows is ridiculous, but on the other hand, she's advocating some of the same policies just, it's a matter of degree. the only person i've heard say what i believe to be true is john kasich, who says we need to get rid of asa. i think we need to extinguish what is the main motivator for isis and these groups, because this is the flame that has fuelled the fire. it's not radicalization as we understand it. so my concern is that we're looking at the wrong issue. >> let's listen to what bernie sanders said about fighting isis tonight. >> what i believe is that we've got to lead the world in forming an international coalition, a
7:31 pm
coalition consisting of countries that have different geopolitical points of view. that means we work with russia, we work with france, we work with germany, we work with the uk, we work with the major powers of the world. but we also work with the muslim nations. king abdullah of jordan -- and i should tell you that jordan has played an incredibly heroic role over the last many years. what he said, and i believe to be true, is that the troop ops the ground have got to be muslim troops. >> professor bloom, that's just a vary yag on what we' been hearing fra president obama, hillary clinton. >> yes, except it excludes iran and iraq. to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense. part of the problem is that the geopolitical conflicts that exist really stymy any kind of
7:32 pm
coalition so that turkey spends more time bombing the kurds. russia has been helping assad. assad invited russia in to counterbalance iranian influence, which i don't think anyone realizes. they con flat iran with syria and asa. it's much more complicated than many of the candidates understand. but at the same time, it's messy. there isn't an easy solution. but i personally don't think the united states should be the policemen of the world. i think that has gotten ourselves in trouble in the past. and i think that it's a really dangerous press sent to go forward and get involved in any more foreign wars. >> jonathan, you've got to be an optimist to get into this field, as john kerry proves every day as secretary of the state. but you don't want to be polyana. this stuff, oh, we're going to get the coalition together,
7:33 pm
they're going to get in there and do this, i just hear that and i have a zero confidence that they'll be able to put that together. >> certainly, so far it's been pathetic. but you do have to try to do this. and this is what john kerry's job is. and i'm not sure we're using all the tools that we have at our disposal. we provide some significant amounts of aid to a lot of these arab countries. why can't we link that aid to then taking action that is in our national security interest, going after isis. i sometimes think we're a little too passive right now in pushing them to move in and take care of this. >> we're going to break it here. professor, thank you very much for joining us tonight. coming up, it's looking tonight like there might not be a republican nominee who emerges when the dust clears from the primaries. it might have to get settled at the convention.
7:34 pm
the brokered convention scenario when we return. this is claira. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her she's agreed to give it up. that's today? we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. after the deliveries, i was ok. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? for my pain, i want my aleve. check your sunday paper for extra savings on aleve. is it keeps the food out. for me before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable.
7:35 pm
just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. super poligrip is part of my life now. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic, why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use.
7:36 pm
insurance coverage has expanded nationally and you may now be covered. contact your health plan for the latest information. ♪ how else do you think he gets around so fast? take the reins this holiday and get the mercedes-benz you've always wanted during the winter event. hurry, offers end january 4th! frequent heartburn brand in america. i hope you like it spicy! get complete protection with the purple pill. the new leader in frequent heartburn. that's nexium level protection.
7:37 pm
>> my the end of marnl, mid april, i believe we're going to have the presumptive nominee. i'm not backing off of that. >> presumptive nominee doesn't mean they have all the delegates. >> well, it's just like mitt romney was in april of four years ago. >> four yeaair enough pop and .t and if that's donald trump you're going to be okay with sna. >> we'll support the nominee. >> this morning, mitch mcconnell was asked about all of this. >> is a deadlocked convention something the party should prepare for? >> it hasn't happened for a very long time. i think it's highly unlikely to happen. it's an interesting thing to happen but highly unlikely i think. >> back with us, stuart stevens and jonathan altar. stuart, you wrote a great piece about this in which you stake
7:38 pm
out the brave territory that -- and you think you might be alone in this, the brave territory that donald trump will not win anything, won't win iowa, won't win new hampshire, won't win south carolina, nevada. state where is he's way ahead now. tell us how you come to that conclusion at this point? >> wishful thinking, clearly. >> not a bad guide. >> i think you have to take these states in sequence and think about how one state impacts the other. in iowa, he's not going to win iowa. he's a terrible candidate for iowa. someone who's been married three times, bankrupt four times in the gambling business. stumbles over a question about whether or not he asked god for forgiveness, that's not a great candidate for iowa. he leaves iowa a loser. he's someone whose definition as being a winner, he won't be a
7:39 pm
winner. so then he goes into new hampshire. now, it has been a long time in new hampshire since someone won new hampshire who did not campaign there more than someone who came in second. he has not been someone who's campaigned a lot in new hampshire. and if donald trump were to win new hampshire, he would break the whole new hampshire compact with voter, which is you really have to go up there and meet people. i think that new hampshire is going to do what it's always done in the past, which is reward someone who has spent a lot of time talking to voters. that wouldn't be donald trump. so then he's going to lose new hampshire, then he's going to lose iowa then new hampshire. so then you've got south carolina. now, in theory, donald trump is a very good candidate for south carolina. but strange things happen to candidates that don't win. i think he doesn't respond well to pressure. he would be under a lot of pressure. there would be other candidate who are in south carolina.
7:40 pm
someone is going to win the first two states. and i think those people will be better positioned to win south carolina than someone who lost the first two states. >> jonathan, stuart makes the point in his piece that no candidate picked by a so-called brokered convention hads won since fdr in 1932. you're suggesting here the other night a brokered convention could give a tremendous excitement to the republican ticket because we would be doing saturation coverage of this, this would be breaking news 24 hours a day for four days and then suddenly this triumphant character could appear and that could be a super charged candidate through a process like that. >> i think that could happen because if nobody goes in with enough delegates, right now the republican field is very split. it's not at all like 2012 where, you know, you had a presumptive front-runner the whole time even if he stumbled along the way can. so this really could -- and karl
7:41 pm
rove agrees with this, go into cleveland where the convention is being held in a position where nobody has enough delegates. if at that point, you get the world's greatest reality tv show that might offset the idea that people don't want somebody that entered the primaries. that outlines the process, given the nomination, they're not going to nominate you. but all the delegates by that time will be liberated from who they had to support on the first ballot. so on the second, third, fourth ballots, they can vote for whoever they think would be their best candidate going into the fall. i think ryan is the only republican right now who unites moderates and conservatives. he might, you know, discredit himself with conservatives between now and then because he has to make tough budget decisions like one that he made tonight, but this is a possibility for some real chaos.
7:42 pm
however, i think stuart is really on to something. you could see the emergence of somebody from back in the pack, just because they're not doing well now. there's still a long time to go in political terms between now and the beginning of the contests. >> stuart, what about jonathan's notion that a brokered convention, you know, a suspensionful convention where we don't know the outcome and the outcome turns out to be somebody who wasn't necessarily in this peeld, or whatever that outcome turns out to be, actually energizing, or giving the republican ticket a huge super charge coming out of the convention? i'm not sure it's the most pleasant of experiences. the way i look at it is you're
7:43 pm
going to have four or five candidates if you go into the brokered convention who are going to have worked their heart out for the last year and a half. everybody hates to lose, but normally you're going to have a situation -- when you don't have a brokered convention, you don't have a number of votes that say you did lose. you're going to have four or five people who say they equally deserve a chance to lose. so for them to say okay, someone who hasn't campaigned is going to come in. we're going to give this crown jewel, potential presidency to that person, man, i love the best man. i love all this in theory, but in cleveland are hearts going to be that big? i think it's going to be a very, very bitter, angry situation that just -- i just can't see that happening. >> stuart, you are much more of an expert on the mechanics of politics than i am.
7:44 pm
will the delegates, the trump delegates, the cruz delegates, whatever, if their guy does not have enough votes to win a first ballot victory, will the delegates actually listen to those candidates? or will they vote for whoever they want, whoever they think will be the best candidate on the second, third and fourth ballots? >> i do think what you're -- and we've all played risk and what happens in resing is you make alliances. and i do think what you would more likely see are two of the strongest candidates coming together and forming a ticket, and that would then propel that ticket to victory. i think that's the most likely scenario, rather than someone else coming in from the outside. >> stuart stevens gets tonight's wise last word on the republican brokered convention. jonathan altar, thanks for joining us. stuart, thank you for joining us. coming up, there are no reviews yet of the new star wars movie, but there are tweets from some of the big stars who actually went to the premier.
7:45 pm
we will have some of those. and, of course, i'll answer that question i asked earlier on twitter about the weirdest and best dessert that i've ever had. kind of holiday... is the kind where everyone gets what they wished for. make this holiday extra happy when you buy one get one free on our most popular smartphones... like the samsung galaxy s6. buy one get one free. so spread some cheer. and capture every minute of it. right now at at&t, buy one get one free on our most popular smartphones. don't let it conquer you.. with the capability and adaptability of lexus all-weather drive. this is the pursuit of perfection. wheall i can think abouthit, is getting relief. only nicorette mini has a patented fast-dissolving formula.
7:46 pm
it starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. i never know when i'll need relief. that's why i only choose nicorette mini. i tabut with my back paines, i couldn't sleep and get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. some of these experimentse're notmay not work.il.
7:47 pm
but a few might shape the future. like turning algae into biofuel... ...new technology for capturing co2 emissions... ...and cars twice as efficient as the average car today. ideas exxonmobil scientists are working on to make energy go further... ...no matter how many tries it takes. energy lives here. [ male announcer ] pain not sitting too well? burning to feel better? itching for relief? preparation h offers the most maximum strength solutions for all hemorrhoid symptoms. from the brand doctors recommend most. preparation h. don't stand for hemorrhoids. from the brand doctors recommend most. the markets change, at t. rowe price, our disciplined investment approach remains. we ask questions here. look for risks there. and search for opportunity everywhere. global markets may be uncertain. but you can feel confident in our investment experience... ... around the world. call a t. rowe price investment specialist,
7:48 pm
or your advisor... ...and see how we can help you find global opportunity. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. >> reviews of "stars -- the force awhackens" won't be released until tomorrow, but we have fweets from people who attended the premier. rainn wilson, first star wars review. it was epic, awesome. j.j. killed it. there were plenty of jeers from the audience including actress geena davis who said i loved everything about it. for more, here's nbc's joe friar. >> reporter: star power was the force on display at this premier that john williams crescendo at
7:49 pm
the beginning it's the greatest thing ever. >> reporter: the franchise's newest faces shared the massive red carpet with legends from a long time ago like harrison ford, carrie fisher and mar mark hamel. >> it's pinch me time. everything is louder, busier. >> it could shatter the hob bit's december box office record. when it's all said and done, the seventh installment of the "star wars" could earn between $1.5 billion and $2 billion worldwide, maybe more. the highest grossing film of all time is "avatar" at $2.8 billion. no movie has ever made $3 billion worldwide. "the force awakens" there's a lot of pressure on this movie. could it achieve that monumental landmark in terms of box office. we'll have to wait and see. >> this is the first star wars film made without creator george lucas who sold his company to disney for $4 billion.
7:50 pm
a big investment, putting a lot of pressure ondrej tor j.j. abraab -- director j.j. abrams. >> there's moments of abject terror. >> still, the buzz is louder than a light sabre. merchandise is expected to bring in billions with everything from high heels to humidifiers hitting the shelves. at the brand-new alamo draft house sen ma in omaha, the decor is totally inspired by star wars. >> i was literally like whoa, i need to get tickets here. >> and on the line outside the chinese theatre, a couple plans to wed right before they see the movie. >> it's got three important things here. it's got star wars, caroline and good friends. >> wait. don't you mean caroline then star wars? >> i mean, of course. >> i'm more excited for the movie. >> nbc's joe frier reporting
7:51 pm
from los angeles. coming up, the weirdest dessert i've ever had and the best. here's a hint -- bacon was involved. (vo) some call it giving back. we call it share the love. during our share the love event, get a new subaru, and we'll donate $250 to those in need. bringing our total donations to over sixty-five million dollars. and bringing love where it's needed most. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. just serve classy snacks and bew a gracious host,iday party. no matter who shows up. do you like nuts? therthat can be serious,ere. even fatal to infants. it's whooping cough, and people can spread it without knowing it. understand the danger your new grandchild faces. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about
7:52 pm
a whooping cough vaccination today.
7:53 pm
>> got some great answers on twitter to what was your weirdest dessert and your best desse dessert. some of those tweets next. that's today? we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. after the deliveries, i was ok. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? for my pain, i want my aleve. check your sunday paper for extra savings on aleve. the first gummy multivitamin... ...from centrum. a complete, and tasty way to support... ...your energy... ...immunity... and metabolism like never before. centrum multigummies. see gummies in a whole new light.
7:54 pm
[eerie music] i am the ghost of cookies' past...residue. oh...so gross. well, you didn't use pam. so it looks like you're stuwith me! bargain brand cooking spray leaves annoying residue. that's why there's pam. the weirdest, and i think the best dessert that i've ever had was in birmingham, alabama, two years ago. now, before i get into my big
7:55 pm
reveal, i want to get to some of your answers on twitter tonight to my question, what was your weirdest dessert and what was your best dessert. beaver tails, not the animal, #canada. not sure exactly what's going on there. weirdest was garlic ice cream. surprisingly coconut-like. best, my bread pudding with va n nilla sauce. my weirdest dessert and my best dessert were the same dessert. and we are now joined by my dining mate that might casey dolan who will do a better job than i can of describing that dessert. first of all, why were we in birmingham? i'm going to ask these questions that i know the answers, but the
7:56 pm
audience -- >> it was a cub scout troop, 34 15 in birmingham, alabama, the sixth avenue baptist church raised a lot of money for the k.i.n.d. fund. >> they raised $18,000. and they gave us physically the biggest check and the actual biggest amount. >> you flew with this. >> this was carry on baggage. the biggest amount in one contribution we've ever gotten for the k.i.n.d. fund. they did a great job for us. so we then went to a restaurant in birmingham. >> the hot and hot fish club and we had some sort of -- >> we were told to get this dessert. it was made of a doughnut center. there was a candy baking sort of layer that was really what you loved. >> eni took a picture of it. >> on the menu it was called candied bacon. >> i actually called to see -- they didn't have it on the menu
7:57 pm
anymore because they change their desooert menu every week. >> we have some new totals. do you have them? >> i would like you to do the honor of reporting that to america, where we are. we picked up some money overnight. where are we no uh? >> we picked up almost $53,000 overnight. now we're at $9,373,188. which is really -- so far we've provided almost $5500,000 studes with desks, 155,000 desks. >> and you've been with this program since before we went on the air. i remember when you came in for a job interview down the hall there. and now you've had enough? >> never. never enough. a. >> you got a promotion to andrea mitchell's show. you're going to have get up
7:58 pm
earlier. and she's the hardest working person in tv news. >> absolutely. second to you. >> you're going to have a harder job. we are going to miss you. we're somehow going to have to carry on with the k.i.n.d. fund. can you tell people how to contribute? >> last wortd desk@msnbc.com. or call 1-800-4-unicef. either way works. >> you've been fantastic with everything you've done for the k.i.n.d. fund. i got a little whisper to me today that the traditional going away present for lifers like you here at the show. and i got you what you wanted. i got you a classroom of desks from the k.i.n.d. fund. i think we have the -- and you got the e-mail. i got the desks in to your name, which we're always telling people you can do during the christmas season. you can get a gift, give it to someone in that person's name and unicef will send the e-mail confirmation that you received that. i think we can put that up on the screen. or maybe we don't have it. >> it said dear casey, and, you
7:59 pm
know, this is your gift. it was really amazing. i can't believe that. >> it's a great way. there it is. that's your going away present. it was exactly the right thing. >> all i want. >> i don't know how we're going to continue to do this tv show without casey dolan. this is the absolute truth. i do not know how to do this show without casey dolan. i've never done it without casey dolan pop i went on vacation a couple of times and you survived. >> in january, they're going to see "the last word" without casey dolan and they're going to see a huge difference. it's just not going to be the same. i couldn't do it without you. thank you for everything you did on the birmingham trip, finding that restaurant. knowing what dessert to order. everything you've done for k.i.n.d. everything you've done for the show. we're going to miss you. >> i'm going to miss you so much. >> will you drop by once in a while? >> all the time. i wouldn't be anywhere that i am without you and the show. >> oh, cut it out. >> you've had all sorts of offers. it was a bidding war to get you to work here. that's it for "the last word"
8:00 pm
tonight. the casey dolan appropriately gets the last word tonight. chris matthews is next. he's going to have highlights and analyst of tonight's republican presidential debate live from las vegas. presidenti debate live from las vegas. last word. [ applause ] from commits to republican president, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews for the last debate of the year is just wrapping up. for too long i'd say ever since the build-up to the iraq war we've been waiting for a debate on war policy in the republican party. tonight, we got it. on one side, we heard the candidates that to want keep to the