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tv   Meet the Press  MSNBC  December 28, 2015 1:00am-2:01am PST

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this sunday, donald trump is still leaping ahead and nothing he says seems to slow him down. >> i know where she went. it's disgusting. i don't want to talk about it. >> will 2016 will the year the plitolitical establishment gets toppled? i'll be joined by bernie sanders, another outsider who upset the old political order. also, the commander-in-chief test. with america facing challenges on a scale not seen since 9/11, which candidate is best qualified to keep us safe at home and abroad. and film director spike lee on america's gun culture. >> why are we okay with that 88 americans die everyday from gun violence? why are we okay with that?
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joining me for insight and analysis are matt bai of yahoo! news, helene cooper of the "new york times," amy walter of the cook political report, and michael gerson of the "washington post." welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good sunday morning, i'm andrea mitchell in for chuck todd who is taking a well-deserved holiday break. 12 months ago, most political pundits would have laughed in your face if you suggested that by the end of the year donald trump would have a commanding lead in the race for the republican nomination and bernie sanders would be giving hillary clinton a run for her money on the democratic side. but 2015 has been a year when conventional wisdom was turned on its head. the big question for 2016 is whether the old order can reassert itself. in a moment, i'll be joined by bernie sanders. but this christmas week, there wasn't any peace and good will from trump as he used a vulgar
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term to refer to hillary clinton's 2008 defeat to barack obama. and kricriticized her for takin bathroom break during last week's democratic debate. >> she got schlonged. i know where she went. it's disgusting, i don't want to talk about it. >> clinton hit back, accusing trump of using degrading and sexist language. >> nothing really surprises me anymore. i don't know that he has any boundaries at all. and his bigotry, his bluster, his bullying have become his campaign. my next guest, bernie sanders responded with humor. >> i'll be honest with you, i've got to lay it out, i also went to the bathroom. [ laughter and applause ] >> sanders has shown surprising strength in the early voting states and in some hypothetical matchups against trump. but what is his path to the nomination? senator sanders joins me from burlington, vermont. welcome back to "meet the press," happy holidays, senator.
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>> happy holidays to you and all of your viewers. >> thank you very much. let's talk about the data breach and the dustup between you and the democratic party. you fired one staffer, suspended two others. has any other action been taken? any update now on this dispute? >> well, we're trying to work with the dnc to put this whole thing behind us. there were two breaches. we screwed up on one and the other one we did the right thing. right now we're in negotiations with the dnc. frankly, andrea, i think for the american people there are far more important issues having to do with the disappearance of the american middle-class and huge income and wealth inequality and climate change and the corrupt campaign finance system so i think on both sides we''d like to focus on the real issues. >> while you're trying to, as you point out, focus on the real issues, there have been charges of sexism back and forth between donald trump and hillary clinton. he used a vulgar term against her and then said it wasn't
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really that vulgarment then she said she's going to have bill clinton campaigning in january and he tweeted out in the last 24 hours "hillary clinton has announced she is letting her husband out to campaign but he's demonstrated a penchant for sexism. so inappropriate." are we going to get into an argument not only of sexism between donald trump and hillary clinton but donald trump attacking bill clinton? >> well, i tell you what, we're going to let my wife jane out and i think hillary's going to be in real, real trouble. but, look, the real issues are not donald trump's vulgarity, and he is vulgar. it is the fact that donald trump thinks we should not be raising the minimum wage. he believes that wages in america are too high. this guy wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the top three-tenths of one percent and meanwhile what he wants to do is divide our country between latinos and
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americans and between muslims and everybody else. that's not the kind of america we need. andrea, what we have got to do is ask the hard questions and that is why is it that the people are the top are doing phenomenally well while almost everybody else has seen a decline in their real incomes? why is it that we're not effectively addressing the fact that climate change is absolutely real? i am in burlington, vermont, right now. nobody can recall a christmas eve the likes of which we have seen where the temperature was 65 degrees. and what the scientists are telling us, if we don't get our act together, we're going to be leaving a planet to our kids and grandchildren, which is not going to be in good shape. and yet donald trump among others denies even the reality of climate change let alone doing something about it. so we've got some really important issues to discuss in this campaign and i intend to do just that. >> while these are really important issues, what recent polling shows is that americans since paris, since san bernardino are more concerned
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about terrorism, threat of terrorism, than they are about the economy. at least according to the polling. and, in fact, you had pulled within eight points of hillary clinton in a recent cnn poll taken before last saturday night's debate but the margin widened to 33 points among those polled after the saturday night debate which shows it's tilted heavily on foreign policy. doesn't it show that you still, among people who are concerned about foreign policy, concerned about terror, you really have some ground to make up against hillary clinton? >> you know, it's interesting the way cnn spun that poll. because you know what that poll showed? it showed between their last poll and this current poll we gained is 12 points on hillary clinton. she dropped eight, we went up by four. that's the message of the poll. another poll came out, rasmussen also showing up and closing the gap. in new hampshire, some of the recent polls have us ahead and in iowa we're close to catching up to her. so i think what the polls are
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showing is that the american people are responding to our message. now in terms of isis and foreign policy, these are, of course, huge issues. the american people are concerned about another terrorist attack and what i have said over and over again, we must destroy isis, but we must do it in a way that is smart. >> at the same time, the polling has shown that on foreign policy and on isis that you are far, far behind hillary clinton. and you have said that you would somehow persuade the saudis to stop fighting in yemen and turn their attention to isis, no one else has been able to get that -- to persuade the saudis to to do that. how could you as commander-in-chief do what other presidents have failed to do in terms of getting the saudis to listen to what america wants for the fight against these terror groups? >> well, it's -- what has got to happen, and certainly the united states and the other major powers have a great deal of leverage. a, it can not be the united states alone. b, what many people in the
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middle east understand, it must be the muslims themselves on the ground destroying isis. so what we need is, in fact, a coalition. saudi arabia, qatar are incredit kbli wealthy countries and they have got to start using some of their resources to help us destroy isis rather than in the case of saudi arabia fighting in yemen. in the case of qatar spending hundreds of billions of dollars in preparations for the world cup in 2022. so what i think american leadership is about is putting together that international coalition to destroy isis. but let me also say this, andrea. i know sometimes the media thinks that is the only issue. it is an enormously important issue. we have got to defend america, we have got to destroy isis. but right now people are watching this program who are 55, 60 years of age. they have zero dollars in their retirement account. they're wondering how they're going to make in the their old age which is why we have to expand social security. there are millions of young
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people throughout desperately want to go to college, don't want to leave college deeply in debt. we have got to deal with that issue. we are the only country on earth that doesn't provide family and medical leave, doesn't provide health care for people as a right. so my view is, yes, of course we've got to focus on foreign policy, we have to destroy isis. but i will not stop fighting for working families and the middle-class. will not stop taking on a billionaire class whose greed in many ways is destroying our economy. >> now, as you let into these early voting stating, you have to win new hampshire, your neighboring state. you're ahead in most polls there. do you feel the democratic party led by debbie wasserman schultz is trying to sabotage your campaign and not being an impartial arbiter going into these early fights? >> well, as you've indicated there's no question that both iowa and new hampshire are enormously important for me and any other candidate. when i began this campaign,
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andrea, we were nationally at 3% and 4% in the polls. we were way, way behind in iowa, way, way, behind in new hampshire. in new hampshire i think we're a little ahead, in iowa we're closing the gap. so in my view we've got a real shot to win iowa. we've got a real shot to win new hampshire. i am going to be sending a lot of times in the next four or five weeks in iowa, in new hampshire. we have a wonderful grass-roots organization, a lot of volunteers knocking on doors and -- and -- if we can win in iowa or new hampshire, i think it really does open us up to a path toward victory. >> is the dnc giving you a fair shot? >> look, we have had our differences of opinions with the dnc. but at the end of the day, the dnc, hillary clinton, and myself, we want to defeat right wing extremism in this country. so we're trying to work out our differences of opinion. >> well, senator, thank you very much and a happy holiday to you and your family.
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safe travels. >> thank you very much. i'm joined now by florida congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz, chair of the democratic national committee. welcome, happy holidays to you. >> thank you, andrea, to you as well. >> first of all, what about donald trump and this new attack he has unleashed on twitter against bill clinton campaigning for hillary clinton more actively in january? >> you know, my assessment of donald trump's candidacy is that he's been an equal-opportunity insulter. he has engaged in some of the most vulgar invectives and rhetoric and really brought this presidential campaign, its tone and where the debate is on the other side of the aisle to the lowest steps i've ever mean? a presidential campaign. so much so that my own daughters when seeing his commentary on tv asked me, "mom, why is he so rude"? that's not what we should strive for in holding up our presidential candidates on
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either side of the aisle. we're supposed to want our children to emulate at least the leadership and values even if you don't agree with them of our presidential candidates and unfortunately what's going on on the other side of the aisle has taken this to a new low in presidential politics. >> does it raise questions as to whether there is some risk involved in unleashing bill clinton as popular a figure as he is in the democratic party, he had his problems in 2008, we saw what happened in that campaign. but if he -- donald trump is going to raise this issue, as he is warning, of bill clinton's past and sexism, does that give you any pause as democratic chair? >> i think that donald trump or any candidate on the other side of the aisle would raise bill clinton as somehow a negative to their peril. i think every poll i've ever seen shows that if president clinton were a candidate tomorrow he'd be reelected. he presided at that time over the longest period of
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prosperity, sustained up to that point, finished his term very popular and continues to be one of the most admired elected officials and former elected officials and men in the world. >> what about sexism in this campaign? donald trump claims that he was not using a vulgar term when he said that clinton had been schlonged by barack obama in her defeat in 2008. >> well, i will tell you -- >> your take on that? >> growing up in my house as a little girl, had i used that term or had anyone used that term around my grandmother or my mother, it would certainly have been considered vulgar and would have resulted in a pretty severe punishment as we received any time we used a term that was inappropriate. donald trump, marco rubio, ted cruz, the larger issue on the republican side of the aisle is that all of them subscribe to poll shows that are harmful to women, whether it's defunding
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planned parenthood -- >> but more to the point of the sex. they has been alleged, the bullying by hillary clinton against donald trump because i think necessahe is in a class b himself -- >> he certainly has taken it to a new low. >> this is partly what he had to say about hillary clinton's campaign energy. >> she does an event, she puts on her pants suit, she walks in -- [ laughter ] no, it's true. she walks in, does an event, you don't see her for four days, five days. you know why? she goes back home and she goes to sleep. this is not what we need as a president. we need tremendous energy. >> now this low-energy criticism worked against jeb bush. it really hurt jeb bush. is it going to work against hillary clinton? >> like i said, donald trump has been an equal opportunity insulter. he's insulted and been vulgar about not only secretary clinton but carly fiorina, megyn kelly, even me. it's -- it's really outrageous
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the depths and how low he has allowed the campaign to sink and the rest of the republican field, andrea, is going along with it. >> why is it working so well for him. in his head, hypotheticals, he's doing so well against hillary clinton. >> it's very simple. why he's doing so well in the republican field is because this is where the republican party of today is. they embrace defunding planned parenthood, they don't believe in equal pay for equal work, they don't believe that we should make sure that women have an opportunity to make their own health care choices. this is not where americans are today. americans are where the democratic party is. where hillary clinton and bernie sanders and martin o'malley are, wanting to continue the economic prosperity that we've been able to create, bringing us from the worst economic crisis since the great depression forward through 69 straight months of job growth. and that's where we're going to continue because we'll elect one of those three candidates as the 45th president of the united states.
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>> we'll have to leave it there but thank you so much democratic party chair. after the break, sexism, islamophob islamophobia, why has this campaign been so ang rirks including again automated voice: to file a claim, please state your name. carnie wilson. thank you. can you hold on? ♪ hold on for one more day really? hey, i know there's pain. why do you lock yourself up in these chains? ♪ this would be so easy if you had progressive. our mobile app would let you file a claim and help you find one of our service centers where we manage the entire repair process. things will go your way if you hold on. [ sighs ] someday somebody's gonna make you wanna turn around and say goodbye. ♪ say goodbye no, you just made it weird.
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welcome back. lots of floix dpolitics to disch the panel. matt bai, national political columnist for yahoo! news, helene cooper, amy walter editor of the cook political report and
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michael gerson, a former chief speech writer for george w. bush and "washington post" columnist now. welcome all. amy walter, first to you. clearly a truce between bernie sanders and debbie wasserman schultz on that. but what about donald trump going after hillary clinton? going after bill clinton? does this work for him? >> well, it has thus far. look, i think donald trump has done something unique in this campaign which is he has understood the republican electorate better than any of the republican candidates going there and he's understood the media environment in which he can make these pronouncements. the problem for donald trump, though, is for as well as he is doing currently on the republican side, he continues to make himself less electable in the general election. you look at where his negatives are, they're higher than hillary clinton's. if you look at the matchups between donald trump and huillay clinton in a general election, he's the only candidate losing to hillary clinton in some cases by more than ten points.
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so for as much as this is getting him the attention he loves and adores and is getting him the crowds of republicans it is pushing him further and further away from the possibility of actually winning a general election. >> at the same time, matt bai, she has had difficulty energizing younger women, millennials, is this attack by donald trump going to help her energize the women support that she really needs? >> it could. i mean, hillary clinton might be having the luckiest year of any nominee in recent memory. she's had bernie sanders who, you know, is going to wage a real fight in those early states but if you had told early on, this is going to be your only serious opponent, she would have had happy about that. then she could draw donald trump or ted cruz who give her a great platform. so she's up against a very difficult historical win, trying to get a third term for her party. she would be the oldest nominee, the oldest president taking office we've seen but all of that won't matter very much if she's very lucky in who she draws and to this point she's
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looking very lucky. >> helene cooper, we saw bernie sanders even today not talking about foreign policy. he started our interview talking about climate change, economic disparity. his wheel house. even after the most recent polls show he really lost ground in that debate last saturday night when he failed to respond effectively, according to those polls, on foreign policy. >> that's absolutely true. and i think that he's just not that comfortable there. he doesn't want to talk about it. you see him -- and you see many of the republican candidates, as well, when it comes to foreign policy, they repeat the same talking points and they say that we need a coalition. a lot of the things that they say that we should be doing are thing, i would add, that the administration is already doing. so it's just sort of -- watching them, i felt that way as well with the republican debate, the last republican debate where these guys are talking and coming out with these phrases that are designed to make them seem as if they're being strong but when you look behind the sort of rhetoric and there's not
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much there there, when you ask for specifics, as you did, you didn't hear a lot coming back. >> and, of course, we are so disliked, we in the media collectively are so disliked? >> speak for yourself, andrea. >> i'll speak for all of us on this point. donald trump made this clear and he does this at his rallies to the real discomfort of a lot of the reporters covering. let's watch. >> i would never kill them. [ laughter ] i would never do that. um -- let's see. well -- no, i wouldn't. i would never kill them. but i do hate them. >> have you ever seen donald trump and the drunk uncle on "saturday night live" weekend update together? that was a pretty good imitation. but michael gerson, to the serious point of the level of invective. i haven't seen this, frankly, since george wallace campaign where attacks on the media at rallies, you know, really were one of the signature effects. >> it's important to realize what context this was in.
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he was praising vladimir putin who is someone who ihas, you know, imprisoned and killed journalists. and this is where we need to make the distinction between the ridiculous and the dangerous. this is a man now flirting with authoritarianism, praising the leadership style of vladimir putin. so his divisive rhetoric, extreme policies and now he's praising a leadership style that really flirts with authoritarianism. this is a serious, serious matter. >> but, of course, it is working and matt bai, you wrote memorably this week why. that we are somewhat to blame. in fact, you wrote "it's clear now that trump's enduring popularity is in no small part a reflection of an acid disdain for us. this is a simmering reaction to smugness and shallowness in the media, a parade of glib punditry unmoored to any sense of history or personal experience. it's about our love of gaffes and scandals real or imagined and our rigid enforcement of the politically correct."
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discuss. [ laughter ] >> oh, i've heard some discussion. look, i've made this point, it's not always popular. we treat presidential politics and politics in general like a reality show and we have for years. if you've been following the immediate i can't media in this campaign, we set up ncaa brackets to match the seeds in the campaign. we order up every kind of garbage poll you can find. we literally treat our candidates as contestants on a game show to be voted off and voted on. and i think there's a cost for that. you set up a platform where someone like a donald trump can exploit it because he is the perfect reality show candidate and there is this symbiosis with the media and trump. at this point i think he has to be covered to the extent he is because he is clearly leading late in the polls but there was a long period in the campaign where i think we exaggerated his support because it brought
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ratings and clicks and i think we did a great disservice to the country. >> let's leave that here for a moment. we'll be back. when we come back, the war against isis and the major foreign policy challenges facing the next president. which candidate is best qualified to be commander in chief? especially, the pizza! about football is here... up your game with two large two-topping pizzas for only $7.77 each. better ingredients. better pizza.
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welcome back. from beijing to baghdad, america is confronting incredible challenges on a scale not seen since the days immediately after 9/11. after the paris and san bernardino terror attacks, which candidate should be trusted to sit in the oval office? the big question for voters in 2016. the commander in chief test. which candidate will be able to handle crises around the world and terror threats here at home?
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in afghanistan, america's longest war, just this past week, the worst u.s. troop losses in three years. >> it's still dangerous, as we saw this past week. we had some outstanding brave men and women who were killed. >> in iraq, sunnis and shiites struggle for power. syria is in shambles and isis is on the march from iraq and syria to libya, afghanistan, and beyond. who can defeat the terror group? donald trump says let vladimir putin do it. >> if russia wants to bomb them, let them bomb them. >> but it's putin, along with iran, who has kept syria's brutal dictator, bashar al assad, in power. >> russia and iran have to face the fact that continuing to prop up a vicious dictator will not bring stability. right now, i'm afraid, president putin is actually making things somewhat worse. >> unlike obama, hillary clinton has called for a no-fly zone over syria. >> one of the reasons why i have
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advocated for a no-fly zone is in order to create those safe refuges within syria. >> but with putin now flying air strikes over syria, even she now acknowledges this is more complicated. experts warn the u.s. could find itself in a dog fight with russian fighter jets. >> russians planes flying combat missions, you have advanced russian weapon systems, that means our ability to operate is that much less. >> all this as the syrian conflict produces a flood of refugees, overwhelming europe and becoming an explosive campaign issue at home. >> donald j. donald trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> president obama and hillary clinton's proposal to bring to america tens of thousands of syrian muslims is nothing short of lunacy. >> and now one dissenting republican voice has been forced to drop out. >> donald trump has done the one
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single thing you cannot do -- declare war on islam itself. >> i'm joined now from palo alto by mike mcfall, former ambassador to russian that under president obama and wendy sherman, who recently stepped down as undersecretary of political affairs at the state department. wendy sherman, how is this anti-muslim rhetoric having an impact on our foreign policy and relationships with allies? >> it's incredibly dangerous, andrea. this kind of islamophobia is playing right into the recruitment by the jihadis of people from all over the world. it is alienating the very pele that we need to be working with us. this has to be led bin the muslim world, this effort to defeat isis. the united states is an important partner in that effort, but we can not do it alone, we should not do it alone, and, indeed, this kind of rhetoric is only pushing people away from us when we need them the very most. >> mike mcfall, one of the leading rebel leaders in syria was killed reportedly by russian
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strikes, indicating do some that vladimir putin is playing both sides and really disrupting the peace process that would be critical to any successful fight against isis, the peace process that was just being launched to try to negotiate an exit strategy for assad. what role is vladimir putin playing with his surprising entry in september into the middle east crisis and his air strikes in syria? >> well, let's be clear, the reason why he went into syria was to support assad. he said that to his own people. he has to justify why he did this military intervention. it was to support assad. and first and foremost, that has meant attacking those that we support. now, over the last couple of weeks, there's been some signs that he might attack isis, but as you just reported, they are still going after those that we think need to be part of the solution in terms of a political transition. >> which raises the point about the wisdom of donald trump and
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what he has had to say, embracing vladimir putin. let me play that for both of you. >> at least he's a kwlooerleade unlike what we have in this country. i've always felt fine about putin. i think that he is a strong leader. he's a powerful leader, he's represented his country, that's the way the country is being represented. he's actually got popularity within his country, they respect him as a leader. >> mike mcfaul, first to you. >> there's so many things that are wrong with that statement on so many different levels. first of all, vladimir putin does only things that are in russia's national interest. so for him to be endorsing mr. trump, that's because he think it's in russia's national interest for mr. trump to be the leader in the united states. second, the part -- you didn't play in the your clip. the part i found most reprehensible when responding to that question on "morning joe" was the moral equivalency
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between what the united states does abroad in terms of our armed forces and what putin does domestically. trump basically said that what soldiers in afghanistan are doing and pilots in syria are doing is the same thing as those that kill journalists in russia. that is not in america's national interest. >> both of you have served in this administration, wendy sherman, you served in the prior one as well. chuck hagel, the former defense secretary, had some sharp criticism in "foreign policy" magazine of this administration. saying in a piece headline "the white house tried to destroy me. whether it was the right decision or not --" he's referring to the decision not to go against assad after assad crossed the redline president obama announced on the use of chemical weapons. "whether it was the right decision or not, history will determine. but there's no question in my mind that it hurt the credibility of the president's word when this occurred. a president's word is a big thing and when the president says things, that's a big deal."
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did the president hurt his leverage overseas? especially in the persian gulf with arab leaders by note using force against assad back in 2013? >> i think what we have to look back to 2013 is to see that, in fact, what the president did working with secretary kerry -- and i was part of that effort as well -- was to get chemical weapons out of syria, which was very critical. because if we had this situation now where assad had chemical weapons, we would have an even more dire circumstance. but i think the point today, andrea, is that we have to be as secretary clinton has said about resolve, not about fear. that's what america is about. and the president and, quite frankly, the democratic candidates, have talked about a multipronged strategy, not just slogans. slogans are not a strategy but it's multipronged strategy that not only defeats isil but stops recretement, stops financing of isil, make sure we take care of this not only for the immediate but the long term as well. america matters in the world. our leadership matters in the
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world and we see that every single day. >> but mike mcfaul, isil is spreading. they're putting down roots in kenya, nigeria, afghanistan, spreading their message of hate and terror even though they may be losing some ground short term in iraq and syria. what is the solution to this? >> the solution is a multipronged long-term strategy, as wendy just alluded to. it's not going to be easy. it's not going to be a slogan. i do think the administration has undersold its policy, as the president hinted at a couple weeks ago. i want to remind your viewers, when i hear candidates say "the united states is doing nothing to fight isis" there's actually been 9,000 attacks against isis in iraq and syria. we've spent over $5 billion already in that theater alone. but nobody believes that there's going to be a victory over isis through an air campaign.
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and that's why we need to have the multipronged strategy, including our muslim allies. because at the end of the day, it's going to be muslim soldiers in iraq and in syria that are going to ultimately defeat isis it won't be the united states alone. >> mike mcfaul, wendy sherman, thank you so much. we have to leave it there. happy holidays, happy new year to you both. coming up next, spike lee on his controversial movie "chi-raq" and the conversation he wants his film to inspire. >> i want people to think
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welcome back. the holiday season gives us many
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reasons to celebrate, but we also want to take a moment to reflect and to remember those in political life and the media whom we've lost this past year. >> are you aware of any devices that were installed in the executive office building office of the president? >> this nation is more a tale of two cities than it is just a shining city on a hill. >> there's a big war going on in vietnam and the people of the province know all about it. >> all it took was one gun, one bullet, and one man who should never have owned a gun.
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>> the right to free speech, the right to dissent, the right to voice an opinion that may be unpopular, but i think a second and equally as important issue is the right of people -- in this case my constituents -- to be represented by someone they chose. >> yogi, we are at a time, i think this program is just about over. >> well, it ain't over till it's over. >> so i have something to ask of you -- be there for my dad like he was for me. here's a little healthy advice. eat well, live well, and take of what makes you,
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welcome back. spike lee's new movie "chi-raq" has been called everything from a collage of provocation and fury to a shattering thunderous wakeup alarm. the warning, though, he is trying to ring is one about guns in america. and while the pew research center says gun violence has declined since the 1990s, the backdrop to the senseless violence depicted in lee's film is the city of chicago where, according to the "chicago tribune," there have been almost 3,000 shooting victim this is year alone, including a police shooting that left two people dead early saturday morning.
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but it's not just police shooting that spike lee wanted to draw attention to when he sat down with chuck to talk about his movie. >> who is the audience for this movie? >> everybody. >> it's interest i don't go say that. >> i say everybody, you know why? >> why? . >> i've been asked many times. i've been making films since 1986 and the one question filmmakers always say, what is the take away? what do you want people to think when they come out of that theater. and you say i don't ask that question. but just know, i want people to think about guns. that's the takeaway for this film. 88 americans die everyday due to gun violence. that adds up to 32,000 per year. and that's not just 'hood, not just "chi-raq," kill-adelphia, the bronx, south side, south
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central l.a. it affects rural area, it affects everybody. >> it seems you're trying to send a message to black america with this movie. >> i disagree. >> okay. >> i disagree. i think what i just said, guns affect everybody and not just in the 'hood. >> but you seem to be sending the message that it's going to take black americans to stop this. don't rely -- this is not about public policy, it's not about -- it seems as if take control of this. >> well, i wouldn't go far to say that, but i do think that i want to speak in this film upon black on black violence. that it's not always policemen. it wasn't a cop that killed -- that executed tyshawn lee, the nine-year-old boy lured into the alleyway in chicago's south side. so i think that -- to me, i
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don't -- the complexion, the color of the trigger finger, the trigger finger does not matter to me. if you kill somebody, you kill somebody, no matter who you are. >> when you make a movie, you spent a lot of time studying, trying to figure this out. why is chicago -- so in much more worse shape? >> i still can't tell you. >> things are better. i grew up in miami. things are better in overtown. south central l.a. isn't what south central was 25 years ago. >> but you know what? one thing though, crack was a big part of all this stuff. there was a crack epidemic which hopefully is -- >> is finally -- >> i know what you're talking about. >> southeast washington, d.c. >> d.c., dodge city. >> right. these areas are not what they were 25 years ago yet here we are with chicago. you say you can't figure it out. why? >> everybody asks. no one has one answer. the spiritual advisor of this film is the great michael pfleger, he can't give me an answer. i think part of it has to do
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with that chicago is america's biggest -- second-greatest city and i think that has to do a lot with it and people are just thrown to one side and left to their own devices. >> just by calling it "chi-raq," you're saying it's a war zone. did you feel like it was a war zone when you were walking these neighborhoods? >> no, because the police were all around us. but my first day of pre-production, one of my -- i had to go to a funeral because one of my guys got shot. the first day of pre-production i was at a funeral. and while we were filming -- and i said this before, excuse me if it's redundant, people heard me talk on this film. june 1 was the first day of filming, july 9 was the last day. during that time 331 people got wounded and shot, 65 got murdered. from june 1 to july 9. and it's escalated since then.
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>> why do you think there isn't this sense of outrage about what's happening in chicago? are we numb? >> it's not sandy hook. >> but we get outraged when there's an event. when there's one big event. whether it's in charleston, sandy hook, san bernardino. this is everyday. why do you feel like there's not -- >> i mean, obama said it himself. people are numb. he said he's tired of giving these speeches after every mass shooting and that's why i said the takeaway, i home people take away from this film is guns. >> i heard you answer a question question about the black lives matter and it was interesting what you had to say. you were talking about its success and they were you were like -- but. and there seemed to be -- i didn't know if you were critiquing on generational grounds. what would be your advice to the
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black lives matter movement? >> i think they should keep doing -- they're doing a great job. i was out here protesting behind eric garner. i took my son to mike brown's funeral. we were in the first pew facing the casket. but for me trying to be the best person i can be, a moral person, i cannot just scream "cops are killing us, they're shooting us down the streets" and then we have cases like thai sean lee. >> don't put blinders on? >> can't do it. i'm not saying they're doing it, i'm saying i'm doing it. >> president obama, he lived on the south side of chicago. a lot of his conservative critic, wherever he would speak about a mass shooting they come back with "what about anything? what about chicago?" is there a role he can play? and if so, what is it? >> you know what? you've got to ask him that the
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next time. >> would you like him to play more of a role in it? >> i want anybody that can do anything to help people be murdered anywhere in the united states of america, not just chicago. again, i know i sound like a broken record. 88 americans die everyday due to gun violence, and not just in th the 'hood. >> you can see a longer view of chuck's interview on our web site, nbc meet the site, nbc meet the we'll
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especially, the pizza! about football is here...
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up your game with two large two-topping pizzas for only $7.77 each. better ingredients. better pizza. it's end game time and the panel is here to look ahead to the political year ahead. we'll stewart that man again, donald trump. michael gerson, who's going to stop him? >> i think there are two big questions now that republicans are asking. one of them is, does donald trump's poll numbers translate into actual voters and caucus goers? >> especially in iowa. >> exactly. his voters traditionally don't vote very well. the other question is who will occupy the establishment lane in this election? because that's the one that's produced the candidates recently here. but right now there are at least four candidates who are contending for that -- marco rubio, christie and bush and kasich. all of which are -- three of those doing fairly well in new
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hampshire. the establishment needs one person to unite and solidify this kind of support if they're going to make a run against cruz and trump. >> and chris christie is really showing strength by sticking to new hampshire and he is really blocking rubio from gaining traction up there. >> yeah. i would argue two things. one, on the establishment front, fundamentally the establishment candidate isn't going to win if they label themselves "the establishment." >> that's true. that's true. >> not in this environment where 60% of voters on the republican side say "we don't want somebody who's been part of washington." so whoever that person is going to be does not want the kiss of the establishment. chris christie is doing a very good job in new hampshire. it feels very much like we saw with john mccain in 2000 where he just settled into that state, he figured out how to do new hampshire very well. my question for chris christie is where does he go after new hampshire is south carolina is not a natural place for him. nevada isn't a natural place. the south isn't a natural place. it doesn't complicate things for
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the marco rubios and others who are trying to be the non-trump non-cruz candidate. >> and with the economy receding as the number one issue, helene, you cover the pentagon. counterterror is top of mine and we've seen with bernie sanders today and with the other candidates that they aren't really able to frame responses to this. >> no, not if you dig any -- not if you go anywhere lower than the surface. so i think you'll continue to hear a lot of the same so of rhetoric we've been hearing. the straigadministration hasn't strong enough. i hope ted cruz is not going to continue to -- you know, his thing about carpet bombing syria. but i think you've seen sort of the -- i think on foreign policy in particular i will be looking to see these guys come, these men and women -- nice to be able to say that -- come up with some specific policy recommendations for exactly how they think they
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can get this coalition fighting the islamic state to make real progress and how they're going to get these arab countries to invest and put more skin in the game. particularly on the ground in syria. >> is hillary clinton vulnerable herself? especially a general election if she becomes the nominee because of this whole issue of regime change? of what happened in libya after the collapse? what happened in egypt? did she have to carry the weight of some of the failed obama policies on her shoulders? >> i think she does but i think from what i've seen so far, she ought to be -- if she cannot articulate her foreign policy after four years as secretary of state then maybe she shouldn't be president. i don't worry about her there. >> with all of this doom and gloom and the terror attacks, let's at least think that there have been a few funny things that have happened along the campaign trail. let's watch. >> oh!
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>> i own one pair of underwear! that's it! some of these billionaires they got three, four pairs! >> yes, last week i bought my second pair of underwear. that's a joke, all right? >> so who do you want as president? one of these washington insiders? or a guy who has one pair of clean underwear that he dries on the radiator? >> well, which is bernie sanders and which is larry david? i can't get them straight. >> i actually think just judging from my kids and the videos they're watching i think larry david did more for bernie sanders in humanizing him and making him a fully fledged breathing figure in politics than he's done for himself. >> but marco rubio throwing the football just tells us and, of course, the american eagle in donald trump's hair that photo ops, be wary of the photo-op
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that can go terribly wrong. >> and the best part about this campaign is none of us could have made any of this up. if you had told any of where you say we'd be in the end of 2015, not believable. >> and 60 days from now we'll be in a very different place. >> three weeks from now. i'm ready for this thing to start. >> and things break light. what you need to understand, national polling doesn't mat, state polling matters but things break light. >> we saw of course last time is with hillary clinton versus obama in new hampshire that it all broke in the last 48 hours. >> yes, that was, i really am after how many years now have we been covering this campaign it feels like four, i'm so ready for actual voting to begin because i just, i'm really curious about you know, just whether these people who have been polled are going to he show up. >> and is trump real. >> exactly. we'll leave it there. lots of excitement to come. that's all for today. have a happy new year.
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chuck will be back next week. if it's sunday it's "meet the press." it's monday, december 28th and right now on "first look" wicked weather leads to numerous deaths as multiple tornadoes tear through texas. icy roads and flooding cause treacherous travel for millions returning home. iraqi forces claim key victories against isis in ramadi, as the islamic state in retreat. donald trump takes aim at bill clinton while hillary says the donald has a penchant for sexism. plus "the force awakens" the fastest billion dollars in movie history. apparently it's not better to give than to receive, and peyton manning vehemently denies hgh allegations. "first look" starts right