>> good evening, from new york, i'm chris hayes, tonight, bernie sanders and hillary clinton faced off for the first time since sanders' upset victory in michigan last night. and the running centered on immigration issues to keep focus on the democratic voters in next week's florida primary. under pressure, clinton for the first time vowed not to report the undocumented people living in the country who has not committed crimes. i hope that secretary >> i would not deport children, clinton would join me if we're i do not want to deport family serious about climate change, about imposing a tax on carbon members either, jorge, of the on the fossil fuel industry, undocumented people living in our country i do not want to see while we are on the subject i them deported. hope you will join me in ending i want to see them on the path fracking. >> joining me now, josh fox, to citizenship. director of gasland 1 and 2, and >> sanders also broke with the how to let go of the world and current policies. love all the things that climate

>> i happen to agree with president obama on many, many issues. can't change. i think he has done a great job josh, the fracking ban, obviously this is something i think is close to your heart. i consider yourself a supporter as president of the united states. he is wrong on the issue of deportation, i disagree with him on that. of bernie sanders or at least on so to answer your question, no, i will not deport children from that issue. >> i love to hear bernie sanders the united states of america. talk about fracking. >> and in a remarkable moment, a >> there are a lot of people who i think highly of, who argued to woman whose husband had been me, that a ban on fracking deported was given an opportunity to ask the tomorrow would essentially help candidates in spanish a question coal. that right now it's kind of like about reunification. letting jeb bush split the vote >> senator sanders, this is a in south carolina and then he very important and painful issue drops out. then when cold al is gone and t for luciana, she wants to know what you are going to do to stop you turn your attention on deportation? >> the essence of what we're fracking. trying to do is to unite >> listen, there is a huge families, not divide families. difference between what hillary clinton is saying, and bernie the idea that a mother is living sanders is saying, when hillary clinton comes out and says she here and her children are on the other side of the border is supports the clean power plant, what it does is transition the wrong and immoral. >> coming off a surprise loss cold from gas, not to renewable

last night, clinton showed a energy. bernie sanders would do away rare moment of criticism, when the voters question her with gas-fired power plants. trustworthiness. right now in america, we are >> i have said before and it facing the proposed 300 won't surprise anybody to hear frack-gassed power lines, me say it. hundreds of miles of power this is not easy for me. plants, fracking galore, that is t it's not easy for me to do what what hillary clinton says she is is right, i am not a natural supporting. >> i want to go back to a key thing. politician in case you have not noticed, like my husband or president obama. so i have a view that i just we talked about revising the have to do the best i can, get climate plan, hillary clinton's the results i can, make a response is revising the plan, difference in people's lives, which will go to the supreme and hope that people see i'm court almost certainly to that fighting for them and that i can will delay it. that would essentially mean it improve conditions economically and other ways to benefit them and their families. would not go into effect even >> all right, and joining me now from the so-called spin room in longer. >> if you build the power plants, florida goes under miami is nbc correspondent water, new york city, philly, providence, new orleans. the difference here is not kristen welker. supporting fracking or not and kristen, it upended things, supporting fracking.

and i have to say this. i have seen that political revolution that bernie sanders is talking about. although from a delegate, did it's the anti-fracking movement. the climate movement, the black lives matter movement, the occupy movement. not. right now, america is a nation what is the thought coming from the clinton camp? >> well, it's interesting, of oligarchs and movements. they're trying to downplay the loss there, no surprise there. they keep going after the and bernie sanders is a delegates, one official said candidate for the grass roots that secretary clinton is close movement. clinton worries me because she to putting this race out of reach. that is significant because they is not joining that movement. sort of have been looking down the road for that saying to hats >> thank you for joining us, appreciate it. >> of course. >> all right, joining me now from the spin room in miami, not going to happen until march 15th. florida congressman, alan they're kind of reviving the grayson, who has endorsed bernie reality, saying there is a significant lead. sanders for president. you heard senator sanders talk am i right, congressman, that you took a poll in your district about it tonight, is to start about who you should endorse? picking up more states and >> no, we took a national poll, ultimately to convince some of chris, we set up a website and the super delegates come over to the other side. told both candidates about it we saw secretary clinton about when we announced it. the loss in michigan. we allowed people to vote for she got asked about it right off about two weeks and the results came in, 400,000 people voted the bat and suggested look, it's

more than nevada and new hampshire combined. more than south carolina. and the final vote was 84-16 in for the th not that big of a deal. look, i won more delegates, but favor of sanders. clearly she is feeling defensive what was most interesting is we about the loss last fight allowed people not to vote but because if you look at the polls to give reasons, the reasons are she thought she had had a double fascinating. the fundamental reason why digit lead. people are voting for sanders, and one of the issues to they want deep change and want continues to loom large is the e-mails. somebody to work on the effects you heard her discuss that of the inequality, whether it's social or economic you're issue, she was asked if she talking about, they want change. would step down if indicted. >> tonight, when sanders was she said i'm not answering that, pressed on the how, at one point it's ridiculous. a question was asked, he said it's not going to happen. you're describing the problem, i thought interesting strategy what is the solution? which goes to the loss in the solution is a political revolution. this is something he said in response to a lot of things. what does that phrase actually michigan. she clearly thinks it must be mean to you? how do you understand it as a person who is running a statewide race in florida, and able to gain traction in ohio. if successful is going to go to what we saw in ohio is sanders a body that has sort of a de is a competitive in the larger

and more diverse states. facto filibuster built in? we just heard an emboldened >> listen, the federal senator sanders saying i would government sends $3 trillion a year, but bernie sanders says the fact we are the richest put my record up against you any day of the week. you really saw him flex his country in the world, the fact muscles, it shows how we're the major country in the competitive the game is, not only in the numbers but in the world that doesn't have health care or sick paid leave. narrative. and that is so important in this and we simply allocate the race. >> all right, kristen welker, resources already there through always good to see you. and casey hunt on the sanders' taxes. >> congressman, if we simply reorder the priorities of the american federal government, campaign, if you talk to the well, yes, there is no magic people and look at the map they came out ahead. wand to wave. points on the board, getting there is a reason the system is the way it is, particularly if towards the delegate threshold. and obviously from a momentum you talk about us raising taxes, perspective the sanders win was and adding something, which is huge. and also from a money think substantively on the perspective that probably helped them quite a bit in their direct merits makes sense. small fundraising. >> bernie sanders has pointed out that we spend more than any what was their thinking going other country on the planet on into tonight? >> reporter: i think that is the health care, 70% of our gdp, yet

right analysis, chris. it looks like they have we have 30 million people who energized their fundraising. can't see a doctor when they're sick. and their life expectancy is although we're waiting ining t what the totals will be. 50th in the world. i think both sides knew how it's we have to spend more close michigan would be. they knew it was going to be wisely and get more for our tight, unlike what many of the polls showed. money. >> all right, congressman alan they were a bit surprised. so was sanders himself. grayson, thank you for joining we were at the hotel where his us. >> thank you. >> we have more with our panel staff was celebrating last night, obviously, down at the to figure out what exactly got said tonight and what news got made. bar cheering, drinking. don't go anywhere. this was a campaign that went from being in the mild day of a slog that was kind of a difficult thing, every day put one foot in front of the other to being a campaign that was really exciting again. i think you saw a little bit of to from senator sanders on the stage tonight. he was a little bit back in his element after last weekend's debate in flint when hillary clinton went after him for his vote on the auto bailout. or that piece of the wall street

bailout that included money that helped the auto industry. so he clearly came you know, ready to throw some punches her way. i think he saw that particularly on undocumented immigration. as far as you know, the children who are coming across the border from honduras and other places. so it's pretty clear to me that the sanders campaign is in a place where they are re-energied in a place where there are delegates. and we saw hillary clinton in the overwhelming margin. that is what gave her the pledge delegate lead, we kept hearing from in the campaign. a lot of states out in the west coast, places like washington state, oregon, maybe a stereotype as places where there is a lot of excitement around

bernie sanders. and they feel like they can cut into that lead and have some serious plays. their challenge will be to keep the clinton margins down. that is why you see sanders compete so aggressively in florida. even though they're behind, it's unlikely they will be able to catch up if they let her expand her margin quite a bit. then they really risk falling in that account. he is in gainesville at the university of florida, then the orlando area ending the night in tampa, chris. >> all right, casey, thank you very much. i just want to show with that number, there are the free-floating delegates who get to vote however they choose. hundreds of them have pledged to hillary clinton, that is adding to the margin the awarded delegate gap. right now it's hovering in the 250 delegate range. so keep that in mind as you sort

of think of where this race is at going forward. the pledge delegates have yet to vote. the super delegates, of course. the chair of the clinton campaign, john podesta. john, was there a policy change tonight in hillary clinton's pledges on a, deportation, and b, the possibly of reunification of people who have already been deported? which i understand that hillary clinton's campaign had said. >> she said we have to put emphasis on deporting people who are violent criminals. we want to keep families here together, law abiding citizens, who pay taxes and take care of their families. she wants to see families held oh, for goodness, that is together. not even happening, i'm not even so i think that she gave -- had

answering that. >> a big cheer for that moment. an opportunity to say what she i thought that moment was -- thought and say from her heart there were two moments i thought where she thinks the country should go. were very much pure hillary in the best possible sense, which the most important thing we need was her line about, look, i'm to do is pass comprehensive immigration reform. not my husband, or barack obama, i think the whole exchange about i'm not like -- she said i'm not the 2007 vote made the point that a lot of families that are a glad-hander, not a natural politician the way those very here today would be a lot better off if that bill had passed as two politicians are. the house was willing to do and i thought the moment about frustration and anger, i'm not the president was willing to sign. >> it was striking to me, you're somebody who has enter active in like 4-- enough with this. democratic party politics, >> i thought that was a good center left politics for a appointment for her, too, when while. it was striking to me where the she took the issue about the trust issue, which continued to center on the democratic party has moved. dog her, she showed obviously, there was attempts vulnerability and humility. for comprehensive immigration i think sometimes people forget, because hillary clinton is reform. the democratic party has viewed as such a master politician, she forgot she is generally been aamenable to it actually a human being, she has more than the republican party, but this was a shift in the last a tendency to be hard and not ten years, would you agree? show that. >> and that gets to be the idea

of her being at her best, when >> oh, absolutely, i agree, as a she is leaning into her senator who tried to work with non-politicianness. kennedy to get the comprehensive i keep coming back to the 11th reform passed clearly there was hour of benghazi, which was sort of the high point, you would still opposition within the think would be bizarre. democratic party moving forward. that has melted away. now, i think there is almost unanimous support for that it had nothing to do with being position within the democratic party in both the house and briefed, but with being a smart, senate. competent, lawyer person. >> one of the things i found and as hillary clinton said tonight i think what we need to interesting about the debate do is get a few more democratic tonight, it was a little senators so we can put the back annoying not to hear somebody before the congress. about trade. and i think within the first 100 and we still had not had a days she made a pledge to try to push this forward and see if we question on the trade. can finally get the job done that we began. what was also interesting tonight is we also saw a preview so really over a decade ago. >> secretary clinton again of what we can expect in terms of general election attacks, we attacked -- senator sanders tonight on the auto bailout. saw it with benghazi, they went and i want to just play this bit deep on the benghazi thing which was sort of stunning. of sound that walked through her that is when mitt romney tried four years ago with president obama. but it is still around, when rationale for you and then get they showed the clip of bernie her to respond. take a listen. >> all right -- basically, let sanders talking about cuba.

this is the type of stuff we me sort of reset what she said. could see from both potential the argument is when senator candidates for general. sanders voted against the and i thought that was good to give those candidates from the perspective of people who want allocation of the tarp two them to get something out of this primary, to see them deal funds, which is $50 billion, the with those questions. >> and there was a moment at the vast majority went to financial end, with bernie sanders record institutions. that that was a vote against the auto bailout. of latin america, and talking by that logic, when the senator in michigan voted against the about castro, and -- he was -- original tarp back for in 2008 was she voting against the auto deep into the latin american bailout? since if it were not for tarp politics. i wonder how much resonance has there would not be an auto in the year 2016. bailout? >> look, i think hillary clinton >> we also talk about the latino walked through this in december, vote like it's one thing, there there was an auto bailout. they both voted for it. is a latino left and a sort of by the time january rolled around president obama had been elected. he asked the senate to release latino right -- >> and the right. the second tronch, if you will, >> and so you have cubans who are willing to vote -- of that money. some of it went to finish off the financial restructuring. cuban-americans who are open to

voting democratic. but $80 billion of which went to but they still don't like hearing this kind of line around restructure the auto industry. that money was paid back to the castro. but you could hear that response government. but without it, the auto that hillary clinton picked up industry would have gone down on. the tubes, we would have lost but bernie sanders is into the three or four million jobs in american imperialism and he is going to go through that story this country. senator stabenou asked people to line regardless of whether or not it resonates with vote for it, most importantly, president obama asked for that cuban-american voters or puerto rican voters. vote. and most democrats voted for it. >> i agree, b, there is no going senator sanders voted against it. and you know we understand the back now. reasons why he voted against it. it's all on the record, for but when the rubber hit the years, hearing him speak as the road, when the money was needed, senator sanders voted no. mayor. >> thank you so much for staying >> it strikes me this is sort of with us. a key, a fascinating vote. thank you for watching. that does it for us tonight. >> i think it's the thinking of we'll be back tomorrow, 8 votes, senator sanders and eastern time. secretary clinton. the rachel maddow show is coming up next. that vote really was a blank check. i mean, rahm emanuel said that is our priority. we need to get the tarp money.

really the question was, trust us. i remember a sitting senator saying they're asking for a blank check, off the record he told me that. i mean, that is a question of trust, it means do you trust the administration with this blank check? and senator sanders said no, and i think what i'm hearing from you is he should have said less. >> i think he should have said yes. we were losing 800,000 jobs at that moment. and the country was facing the prospect of a great depression. and the president-elect asked for that money, i was running the transition, i remember it well. asked for that money so that he had the tools that he could use to restructure the economy and the auto industry. to keep people from even worse job loss. and as i said if the vote had gone the other way i think the consequences would have been dire and certainly would have get one of our right best deals ever.... ....for just $9.99

meant that the country would you can get any large pizza with up to five toppings have gone down the tubes. pile on your favorites with up to five toppings >> thank you very much. all right, now, the manager for just $9.99 for the sanders campaign. better ingredients. better pizza. papajohns.com jeff weaver. jeff, i want to talk about the mccain/kennedy bill, which got litigated a number of times. here is my question, senator sanders basically says the guesswork of provisions were a breaking point for me. but the senator has voted for bills that he thinks contain bad stuff. an example, the crime bill, he went to the floor and talked about the reservations. but on the whole, i voted for the thing even with some bad stuff. i mean, in hindsight, was that vote on 2007 mccain/kennedy, was that the right vote? >> yes, it was a right vote, ted

kennedy and john mccain were honorable people who tried to do the best bill they could. they were negotiating with the bush administration. and the bush administration had no love for undocumented workers in this country or migrant workers. the core of that bill was the guest worker program, akin to slavery. many large latino organizations in this country opposed it. as did many other smaller latino organizations. we cannot perpetuate a system where migrants are abused economically, physically and sexually. and if the secretary wants to support that kind of bill, she can go ahead. we're going to stand with the migrant workers. >> but let me just say -- i'm for the saying, i'm not contesting you substantively on the projections. but on the other side, i guess

here is my question to you, you go back, if bernie sanders was t the deciding vote -- >> it was the core of the bill. this was a bush administration backed bill. this was not the 2013 bill, it also had guest worker provisions in it but much strength eened t provisions of workers. you cannot support a bill where the workers are being abused. look, senator sanders was protecting people far from vermont with no connection to him. he was not running for president. when you look at what people do the vice president had had when nobody is looking that is taken over the presidency, a the kind of people you know they are. and when nobody was looking, deeply unsettled time in the country bernie sanders was optioning undocumented workers who were richard nixon who'd been beaten being exploited in florida, and by john f. kennedy in 1960, mitt in some cases, there were romney's dad, george romney, the

slavery charges brought against governor of michigan, neither of some folks down there. them ended up running in '64. that is what bernie sanders is nelson rockefeller, powerful about, protecting vulnerable people whether it is migrant governor of new york, he did run but he got shellacked in the primaries. the republicans ended up at the workers or anybody else. last minute drafting the >> does senator sanders believe governor of pennsylvania, bill scranton. they drafted him as a as he told lou dobbs, does he last-minute addition to the race a month before the convention. believe that that kind of they tried to bring him in as immigration, unfettered at the the establishment alternative to the radical person the party lower level, does drive down looked like it was on track to nominate that year. wages? but none of the establishment >> no, he said bringing for competition worked. none of the establishment workers to the guest worker efforts to block the nominee program, when you have workers worked and the republican party frankly whether they were migrant workers or people who in 1964 really did nominate barry goldwater as their were american citizen whose were nominee. in the labor force who don't have rights and can't stand up to abuses whether they're physical or sexual, that drives down wages for everybody. it's not that there are people coming into this country but there are people coming into this country in abusive relationships where corporations can exploit them viciously and they have no right to speak up.

>> all right, let me ask you this question. you guys had a good night last night. i think the michigan -- everybody was surprised in michigan, they over scame a 21-point deficit. but you still know the way this works, in the campaign there was a huge white board that has nothing but this on it. can is that proportional delegates make it harder and harder for you to catch up with time. it is the case that you need big wins somewhere shou. >> yes, we demonstrated that secretary sanders would be strong in the south. she has strong political ties in the south. but what we've seen outside the south, bernie sanders wins, new hampshire, 22 points, maine over 30 points, kansas over 30

points. there are a lot of states that look like he is winning by big partygo margins. there are only two more states in the south. >> manager of the campaign, jeff weaver, thank you very much. all right, we'll dig into a fascinating debate in many respects, we have great people here to discuss it. there was fracking talked about. climate change, got a turn front and center. and immigration as well, stay with us. we needed 30 new hires for our call center.

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working up to be a democratic nominee there will be a lot of time to talk about him. i was the first one to call him o out. i called him out when he was calling mexicans racists, when he was engaging in rhetoric that i found offensive. >> joining me now, the chair of

the committee, debbie wasserman-schultz. we're getting a lot more debates than we thought we would. are you glad? >> i am glad, they talked about the need to spend more time and added debates and i think they have been fantastic and the candidates are pleased, as well. >> i asked john podesta before, would you say that the center of the democratic party on immigration has moved considerably to the left in say the last seen four or six years? >> the center has moved left is this -- no, i think we continue to be right where we should be, which is supporting broad-based comprehensive immigration reform. obviously with important border security. but making sure that people who simply want to be in this country, chris, to make a better way of life for themselves and

their families can stay. and we can have a legal pathway to citizenship. that has been our policy as democrats for a long, long time now. >> you know, there has been a lot of talk about super delegates as this sort of delegate race goes forward and people add them up. can you explain why the super delegates race exists? >> sure, unpledged delegates were created by the democratic party in 1984 so this is not a new development. and as i had a chance to talk to rachel a couple of weeks ago about, imagine, chris if you were somebody who wanted to run for delegates and go to our convention. if you had to run against a member of congress, a former dnc chair, a high profile politician in your community, the chances of you being elected in your congressional district to be a delegate are pretty slim. so in 1984, the party made a decision to take those party leaders and elected officials,

designate them as unpledged delegates. and that way we free up these delegate slots with a more diverse delegate across the country. at tehe end of the day we never nominated anything without the pledge delegates to a s that ar elected by the voters. >> do you ever think if you had super delegates -- >> right now looking at the republican party they are an absolute train wreck, in freefall. our debate tonight was something that i have been and continue to be so proud of our candidates. american voters get a clear picture every time they listen to the two of our candidates about the direction they would take this country building on the progress they have made. and when they look at the republicans they look at an utter mess that is more like a

wwb wrestling match than a debate for the presidency of the united states of america. it's just stunning. >> congresswoman, did you think you would be here in march? >> did i think we would be at a debate for march or a primary -- >> yeah, in the middle of a primary -- >> by march 15th, we don't actually reach 50% of the delegates available until this coming tuesday on march 15th. so yes, i fully expected us to be at this place at this moment and i was not sure how long the primary would go but we definitely were at least going to be here until next tuesday. and we are, and i expect that it will continue. and at the same time, while the primary is playing out we're getting ready at the dnc to prepare to support whoever our nominee ultimately is. we have to get ready for the election, we're taking every one of these jokers on the side of

the aisle seriously, because we know it's going to be a serious contest and we have to be prepared. let's go back out to kristen welker, who is joined by the congresswoman who endorsed bernie sanders. >> congresswoman, thank you for joining us. let me just get your reaction again, another fiery night. i thought one of the sharpest exchanges over immigration. she criticized him again for voting on that 2007 bill. he has his reasons for doing that. were you satisfied with his answers? do you think he defended himself enough tonight? >> i think senator sanders showed his record clearly. there have been dishonest attacks against him and that record. and i think if people actually look at what he has done but also away what he plans to do. he has a very strong immigration reform plan that will be lauded

by experts that is something not only aggressive but actually workable. so i think that is important to know. >> you talk about some of the criticism attacks against him. another one we saw tonight, secretary clinton going against him on the auto bailout. it was a tactic she deployed in michigan, it didn't seem to work there. but she is clearly not re lenting on that point particularly as we approach ohio and other states where it could resonate. are you concerned it could take away some of his support? >> well, i think as we saw in michigan, the people stood up and chose bernie sanders even after that dishonest and unfortunate attack was made. because they understood clearly. he supported the auto bailout and supported working people his entire life. what he voted against and what

secretary clinton voted for, was the bailout of the banks. she failed to talk about all the families who lost their homes. they didn't get their homes back. they didn't get their lives back. we had people across the country whose lives were literally devastated because of this wall street abuse that occurred. and still, the kind of reform and the kind of accountability that should have taken place a long time ago had had still not yet occurred. >> very quickly, i want to ask you about this race broadly. some say the mask is just not on senator sanders' side. what do you think about florida -- >> people can turn on the television and hear political pundits saying their predictions on how people in one or another state will vote. michigan last fight just proved why our democracy is so important. there are clear contrasts between our two candidates.

every single person should have the opportunity to vote. before people start calling this election long before it's over. >> congresswoman gabbard, thank you. >> and we have more on new areas that have not gotten a lot of attention in previous debates. we have a panel here. stick around, don't go anywhere.

let me answer that question because it's a huge question. and -- >> here with me now, associate professor of new york university, author of the trouble with politics. and joining me, msnbc contributor, jorge ramos is sort of famous for his ability to kind of bear down and get commitments from politicians and tonight he was very focused on deportations and basically was trying to get an answer from secretary clinton where she would not deport clinton. here was the passage where he asked if she would deport kids again and again, take a listen. and basically, i will not deport

children, i would not deport children, i do not want to deport family members either. of the undocumented people living in the country, i don't want to see them deported. i want them to have a path to citizenship. christina, how big a deal is that? in >> i think there has been a dramatic shift on this issue. a lot has to do with since 2006 this has been a movement of undocumented activism. and the organization has been allying with politics, as we saw from this debate they're speaking themselves about their own experiences in the deportation regime. and that changes the conversation. and it has shifted it dramatically. >> that is extremely well said. the moment where the mother who was from guatemala, talked about missing the family. he said he is a good worker and good father and husband, he is

not here. the aspect of the u.s. immigration policy, tara, is essentially missing most of the time from these debates. >> and exactly, it is an emotional thing, too, at that moment it was sad. so i think the other thing we've seen to piggyback on your point is when i worked in field operations and campaigns, one of the things was you didn't see as many hispanic voters registered to vote. that was an issue. and now you're starting to see so much more grass roots registration, people exercising the right to vote. and "the new york times" article that came out that people are actually rushing to register to vote. so what you see is there is pressure and the democratic party is now conforming to that pressure. >> there is an amazing statistic i think i saw today. i think it was in 2004, hispanics in florida, there were 44 advantage for republicans in registered voters in florida.

it is now a 200,000 registered voter advantage in florida for democrats. you could sort of feel that political shift all around the debate tonight. >> and nationally, let's face it. we have reached peak polarization here. so there is no middle here. so both sides have essentially ensured as the middle. >> i think it was a smart move for secretary clinton because she does not want to be out-flanked on the left by bernie sanders on this issue. she seems to be willing to be out-flanked on the banks and other issues, but in terms of the immigration -- >> is there not the question -- >> i think the peak polarization.

>> penny in for a pound, it's like build the wall or deport. >> what struck me in the debate, she was asked what you would do in terms of economics for the hispanics, i didn't see the specifics. that instruct me as something that would resonate in florida. >> i want to get to the climate point, because miami will be under water. stay with us, we'll be right back. get one of our right best deals ever.... ....for just $9.99 you can get any large pizza with up to five toppings pile on your favorites with up to five toppings for just $9.99 you can get any large pizza with up to five toppings better ingredients. better pizza. papajos.com

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